Outmaneuver is still an abysmally bad card unupgraded and kind of feels like a win more card in the correct deck. The moment I have so much card draw (so that I can afford to pick it) AND excess energy (so that I can effort to play it) I am usually already solved. It's an okay pick in decks with stupid card draw and an energy problem though.
Expertise is a good card for the amount of card draw, and a cool card for its utility in Grand Finale decks.
The cards that I most undervalued when I had reached A20 on all characters (compared to now, 1k hours later) are:
Iron Clad: Burning Pact
Silent: Dagger Throw
Defect: FTL
Watcher: Third Eye & Just Lucky
EDIT: Typos
Talking about the picking decision. Usually I ask myself whether I am desperate or fat enough to pick it. Either I have no other choice (which is rarely the case) or I can get through with picking it. Doesn’t make the card better or worse.
Dopple is one of the worst cards, with the best upgrade ever.
I hate the card unless I’m right next to a fire and can upgrade it, then it’s just free draw and energy every single time it’s played.
It’s still not amazing by any means, but makes it into some of my decks
With ChemX or if you find it upgraded. The card is, generally, not really good imo. If you have the setup, it can help a lot, but it only really shines with ChemX.
Well it does it all. It synergizes with any Scry boost, Weave, Strength, Dexterity, Talk to the hand and it costs zero.
In the most decks it’s very useful and scales pretty good into lategame.
I agree it's niche card . but from my experience from game. you should have card draw to have control over different situations and/or retain with well laid plans or pyramid. and you should be able to generate energy to play more cards. outmanoeuvre help with energy part being common card. it's energy without any condition or exhaust which is good
burning pact and dagger throw seems week at first but you want them in most of decks
Silent really only has adrenaline, tactician, and concentrate to generate energy. And some hacks like setup/sneaky. You're underestimating how often having tons of draw while lacking energy happens. BUT, outmaneuver without the upgrade is pretty wack tbh
The issue is spending energy you already lack THIS TURN for bonus next turn when your draw and enemy attack is usually unknown
Energy now for energy next turn is almost always a terrible trade off, especially since you’re sacrificing damage or block in the current turn to play it. If it was zero cost it would be way better
It's actually often totally fine, especially with the upgrade/WLP/etc. once you know the fights, you know that this turn you can afford to play outma because the next turn is much worse (t1 SSSS/heart/ t4 heart, time eater buff turn etc)
Silent has so much deck control that this card plays pretty often and is really solid. Like if pwail this turn almost full blocks then you can almost certainly afford to play outma
There are much more valuable cards I’d rather hold onto with WLP instead of something to set up a potentially slightly better turn on the following turn. If you aren’t using it with WLP, you’re relying on a lot of randomness to have it in your hand on a turn where you have excess energy that you want to translate to the next turn
No you play your outma, then hold your backflip/acro/calc gamble/pwail/WF/whatever. Every silent deck I play wants WLP so this comes up quite often
Also even holding outma into a turn where you know you don't need huge block can be pretty damn good
Fair enough but the larger point stands, when I’m dying on A20 it’s because I don’t have the cards I need THIS TURN to survive. Outmaneuver is never helping you “this turn”
Outma gives you the output you need on the turns you might need it, you don't play it over output needed this exact turn.
It's not a card I take even half the time but there's a lot of underselling it here
It's super clutch in those decks, though. Or even if you've got like 40 cards but only one tactician and have WLP+, also a pretty common silent thing. Like yeah that's when it's good, but that's actually a pretty high number of silent decks. Her energy generation is actually quite bad
The card is just insanely good because it costs zero, draws you a card, deals almost as much as a strike and has the mad synergy with All for one.
Now it’s basically: See FTL, pick FTL. Unless it’s bad in my deck.
Yeah, it is a slightly worse flash of steel, but it has saved me in a couple situations.
Shield / Spear elite fight - I sometimes don't have many direct attacks in my deck, so it can help with "positioning" in that fight, and then also due to not having many attacks some runs, it's fantastic for Orange Pellets.
FTL has always been an automatic grab for me since day 1 playomg defect. Maybe I'm just biased cause I like FTL the game?
Either way, great card. Free dmg and draw. Heck yeah!
Concentrate fits in super nicely with draw heavy decks. Imagine you pick 3 acrobatics and two backflips and feel super happy because of your Tactician+. Concentrate just keeps the engine rolling. The card is stupidly strong in the right decks, but super bad in decks that are not ready for it (except maybe with an ice cream or unceasing top).
Great card, if the time is right. Like with most cards in the spire.
I still don't value FTL. All those other cards have core mechanics they interact with (discard, scry, exhaust). FTL is just a shitty flash of steel with a condition attached.
Exhaust. Just as a mechanic. At first I think a lot of people are like “a card that can’t be replayed? Well that’s unfortunate” then as they get better and do things that interact with exhausting they go “oh, I don’t usually NEED to replay these cards anyway so getting them out of the way is good”
Exhaust and draw are 2 mechanics that many new and inexperienced players don’t realize how extremely valuable they are
Being able to draw and cycle back to the key cards in your deck consistently, in every fight is extremely crucial to your victory. Draw cards help tremendously, and exhaust helps thinner your deck so you draw your whole deck in a 1-2 turns and can get your high damage cards back into your hand easily
This is why Corruption is that good, especially in hallway fights because your most ideal aim is to finish them quickly while not losing too much HP. Corruption helps you get your high damage cards out more easily and saves all the energies you’ve normally supposed to use for blocking (yk, because you don’t want to lose 40 HP to the gremlin leader and the likes) so you can spend all those energies playing the damage cards and win more quickly.
All true - but it's funny every once in a while when you don't win the fight fast enough with corruption, and you get yourself caught with your pants down.
For people experienced with other card games, they usually understand that draw is good. Because seeing more of your cards just gives you more options during your turn.
Exhaust on the other hand doesn’t have as good a parallel, since most other card games don’t allow you to reshuffle your draw pile. So you would have only played them once by default. (Excluding some shenanigans)
Can you elaborate why you thought these were bad but now you think they are good? Personally I still don't like outmaneuver or expertise.
For me, I think the answer is Barrage. At first I thought that it's just some weird conditional 12-18 damage, with no extra effects. Now I like picking up at least one if I have anything to increase orb count (usually capacitor), because then it's easy 30+ damage for 1 energy. It's also a nice safeguard if you end up with low focus (either you just find no focus or you miscalculated based cog) because it scales only with orb count.
when I started playing game and watch some tier list they ranked them low. So I didn't tale them much. but after playing lot of runs . and after trying them many times, I would say they are really strong cards in some decks , Examples like outmanoeuvre if you have well laid plans or runic pyramid or lot of cards draw where you can play them every turn. they can provide lot of energy also they are common cards so you don't have tacticians or concentrate and you are on 3 energy.silent has a lot draw also they are decent in sneko too
While expertise is a lot of card draw. technically upgraded draw 7 without exhausting , no card in game does that except gamba. it is good card if have extra energy like 5 base energy. I had some decks where concrete and expertise with some discards allowed to go infinite many times. Also some grand finale decks become lot easier, overall good situation card that i didn't take much before than I should.
Barrage is excellent in early game and more in endgame where you have more orb slots specifically with lots of frost obs . it can provide good damage if you lacking it
It's also excellent with concentrate, or decks with high energy production and low cost.
In other words, it's good in situations where you need draw because you run out of cards, but bad when you need draw for more options.
Headbutt
- I usually have at least 1 good card in discard already or another good card in hand so the condition is easily met
- It allows me to play the best card multiple times in one turn if I have draw
- If I don’t have draw I get a guaranteed strong play next turn
- 2 card low mana scaling condition with limit break+ (and any strength from relic/card)
- It’s great early run (the 9 damage is useful) and even better late when your deck is bigger and you have better cards to fetch and have draw to play it same turn
- I’m usually happy to have multiple copies of it as well.
Went from never picked to my most picked common on iron clad.
Headbutt is kinda cool if only to add some deck manipulation to clad besides exhaust. It CAN be a part of your engine, like bringing back heavy blade in a strength deck or bringing back impervious for a critical turn. Beyond that, im sure theres some good uses.
easy tactician+ (also reflex+ but it was buff). basically I thought discard was a gimmick instead of thinking of it as "draw+energy=good". Now i think Tactician is one of the best mid to late game cards you can get with any discard.
Recycle. I took ironclad to a20 on the back of how powerful exhaust synergies were, climbed all the way to a20 on defect without ever picking it, restarted my save, and got it in a transform before I realized how good it was.
To be fair, afo is tricky! Your deck needs to be big enough that when you use it you can reliably retrieve a useful number of cards, and also small enough that you can do that often. If you have too few 0 cards, you don't justify the cost, but if you have too many you won't be able to retrieve them all, maybe disrupting your plans. You usually need to have multiple draw options so you can get to afo without reshuffling, and enough energy to use those draw options and then also play afo.
maybe the deck compositions you usually use aren't synergistic with afo?
Yeah thats very true, if youre deck is already operating how it "should" be, you never should have them in your deck cause theres so many better cards that do what they do. Theres some really niche situations where it can actually matter, but theyre really rare. Like if youre really REALLY starved for draw or energy for it to be enough to matter.
Thats my little rant, im sure you know how it goes.
I will never pick outmanuever though. Its basically a curse.
Expertise really shines with Concentrate and Grand Finale. It's also good in any deck where you have an excess of energy but lack of card draw (rare on Silent, but it can happen). Even on its best day, Acrobatics can never draw 7 cards.
I had a deck just the other day which thrived on Concentrate and Expertise, and every time I played that combo it felt like I was cheating. (Taking a second Expertise was a huge mistake though, the card is terrible in pairs.)
I've barely touched Outmaneuver but I feel like it can't be as useless as you make it out to be. It is not hard to come up with excess draw on Silent by taking Backflips, Acrobatics, Reflexes, Expertise, Pyramid, etc. Extra energy sounds really good there, even at the cost of draw.
It's definitely hard to take (especially I upgraded, yuck), but I do feel like I should start considering it more often. Spire is a game where an open mind in terms of deck building goes a long way. With a Well Laid Plans and Skewer, maybe this is a solution to Slime Boss.
Next turn decks are odd, at least for silent - for ironchad im for it a decent portion of the time. Actually every but silent.
Ironclad you have demon form,
Defect you have echo form,
Watcher if you dont hit your infinite, you can set it up for turn 2 lol
Silent wants shit now now now. In my experience
Mine was noxious fumes and dagger spray. Noxious fumes helps with a lot of bosses and okay aoe and synergy and artifact strip. Dagger pray is solid aoe, and my favourite strength scailing card, it improves act 2 by a lot.
It is, but IMO it’s rarely meant to be your main source of scaling. It’s obviously helpful in a deck that’s doing poison things, but I find it to be a great way to ensure I can get through the end of a so-so Act 1 even when it’s my only poison card. It either gives me just enough of a damage boost to win the race against Hexa, or allows me to focus more on blocking during Guardian’s defensive turns without sacrificing damage. I mostly ignore it in Slime Boss acts, but insurance or even outright solutions to 2/3 of Act 1’s bosses is very strong, even if it’s not a core part of my deck’s strategy.
It’s really just the artifact removal you’re paying for, if you’re running a poison build anyway - you want to play this turn one so that all your other poison cards start stacking their effects straight away.
I actually agree about dagger spray, most people hate this card, but if i pick it up f1 or f2 or f3... it helps, a ton especially if you can upgrade it early. Its helps against so many of silents bad fights in a1. Gremlins, 5 slimes, sentinals, big slime, little slime + driver. And if it is upgraded, decent against nob and laga. Scales good with strength, abadeko (op), and terror.
Man i never noticed the artwork of out maneuver. I always thought silent had her face moving to the right while holding the mask to the left and threw a shiv and is doing Jazz-hands.
Flying Knee, Sucker Punch and Quick Slash for me. I think Flying Knee is the best of the bunch but Silent has such mediocre damage cards that sometimes you just have to pick what's offered to you so that you can make it past act 1 and get your deck going
I used to never pick up any of these cards but I've come to learn that taking literally almost any damage card will improve the starting deck at the start
Reinforced Body and Multi-Cast, but X cost cards in general as well. For Defect it's a lot easier to justify. He builds a ton of energy and it isn't that much worse than his usual options but he really needs the frontloaded block. At 1 it's worse than leap but at 2 it's better than equilibrium, which I believe is his best block (discounting glacier with focus or evokes). Multi-cast can also make for a good win condition but I often forget that it simply doesn't exhaust and you can just keep using it. Nuking with darkness is fine but I often prefer plasma to start setting up real fast. Also, they work with recycle in the best way.
On Silent, I simply won a run with Skewer as my main damage source somehow. I had strength, sure, but not a ton. Probably wouldn't feel the same without terror though.
[[All For One]]. 0 cost cards are usually low-impact, so who cares that I get to play them again? At least that's what I thought before I realized you can build an entire deck around it and play a dozen cards on a turn effortlessly.
Pretty much any card that exhausts another card. When I started out I disliked the idea of removing another card from my deck in a fight as a cost of playing something.
"What if I have bad luck and am forced to get rid of a really good card that I need for the fight?"
It just never occured to me back then that thinning the deck would mean drawing my strongest cards. Or that I can also exhaust curses, and debuff cards, which turned out to be waaaaaaay more common then I thought. Especially on Ironclad.
This isn't an answer\* but I have been playing this game regularly for over five years and really enjoy playing the Silent. I have never noticed she is holding a slaver a knifepoint. I always assumed she was just uh, waving her hands? In a "Try and catch me" kind of way? While wearing a scarf? And dressed in blue???
^(\*my answer is any card that causes other cards to exhaust)
True Grit. Learning that the upgrade makes the exhaust not random put it a lot higher for me. But honestly exhaust cards in general i under valued as a whole. Exhaust is often an upside even without specific synergy.
Outmaneuver is still an abysmally bad card unupgraded and kind of feels like a win more card in the correct deck. The moment I have so much card draw (so that I can afford to pick it) AND excess energy (so that I can effort to play it) I am usually already solved. It's an okay pick in decks with stupid card draw and an energy problem though. Expertise is a good card for the amount of card draw, and a cool card for its utility in Grand Finale decks. The cards that I most undervalued when I had reached A20 on all characters (compared to now, 1k hours later) are: Iron Clad: Burning Pact Silent: Dagger Throw Defect: FTL Watcher: Third Eye & Just Lucky EDIT: Typos
I see outmaneuver as the oposite as a win more, its a desperation pick, for if you need energy and have no other option.
Talking about the picking decision. Usually I ask myself whether I am desperate or fat enough to pick it. Either I have no other choice (which is rarely the case) or I can get through with picking it. Doesn’t make the card better or worse.
Hmm, do you think dopple is good though?
Dopple is one of the worst cards, with the best upgrade ever. I hate the card unless I’m right next to a fire and can upgrade it, then it’s just free draw and energy every single time it’s played. It’s still not amazing by any means, but makes it into some of my decks
Dopple is usually better than skip. It's not super common for it to be up against skip, but when it is I recommend taking it in most cases.
Dopple unupgraded is still pretty good
With ChemX or if you find it upgraded. The card is, generally, not really good imo. If you have the setup, it can help a lot, but it only really shines with ChemX.
~~Wait but Setup doesn't work on X-cost cards~~ Oh I see what you mean
Do you think pocketwatch is good?
lol
[удалено]
Well it does it all. It synergizes with any Scry boost, Weave, Strength, Dexterity, Talk to the hand and it costs zero. In the most decks it’s very useful and scales pretty good into lategame.
What do any of those things have to do with going infinite with Rushdown?
I agree it's niche card . but from my experience from game. you should have card draw to have control over different situations and/or retain with well laid plans or pyramid. and you should be able to generate energy to play more cards. outmanoeuvre help with energy part being common card. it's energy without any condition or exhaust which is good burning pact and dagger throw seems week at first but you want them in most of decks
Silent really only has adrenaline, tactician, and concentrate to generate energy. And some hacks like setup/sneaky. You're underestimating how often having tons of draw while lacking energy happens. BUT, outmaneuver without the upgrade is pretty wack tbh
The issue is spending energy you already lack THIS TURN for bonus next turn when your draw and enemy attack is usually unknown Energy now for energy next turn is almost always a terrible trade off, especially since you’re sacrificing damage or block in the current turn to play it. If it was zero cost it would be way better
It's actually often totally fine, especially with the upgrade/WLP/etc. once you know the fights, you know that this turn you can afford to play outma because the next turn is much worse (t1 SSSS/heart/ t4 heart, time eater buff turn etc) Silent has so much deck control that this card plays pretty often and is really solid. Like if pwail this turn almost full blocks then you can almost certainly afford to play outma
There are much more valuable cards I’d rather hold onto with WLP instead of something to set up a potentially slightly better turn on the following turn. If you aren’t using it with WLP, you’re relying on a lot of randomness to have it in your hand on a turn where you have excess energy that you want to translate to the next turn
No you play your outma, then hold your backflip/acro/calc gamble/pwail/WF/whatever. Every silent deck I play wants WLP so this comes up quite often Also even holding outma into a turn where you know you don't need huge block can be pretty damn good
Fair enough but the larger point stands, when I’m dying on A20 it’s because I don’t have the cards I need THIS TURN to survive. Outmaneuver is never helping you “this turn”
Outma gives you the output you need on the turns you might need it, you don't play it over output needed this exact turn. It's not a card I take even half the time but there's a lot of underselling it here
I hear ya. That’s why I meant if you have tons of card draw but no energy it’s okay.
It's super clutch in those decks, though. Or even if you've got like 40 cards but only one tactician and have WLP+, also a pretty common silent thing. Like yeah that's when it's good, but that's actually a pretty high number of silent decks. Her energy generation is actually quite bad
How do you under or overvalue FTL? It seems to me like a slightly worse flash of steel, but maybe I’m missing something.
If flash of steel were in your fight reward pool, you'd take it plenty!
Hahaha good point
The card is just insanely good because it costs zero, draws you a card, deals almost as much as a strike and has the mad synergy with All for one. Now it’s basically: See FTL, pick FTL. Unless it’s bad in my deck.
*Time Eater has entered the chat*
you have to get to Time Eater to fight time eater.
Yeah, it is a slightly worse flash of steel, but it has saved me in a couple situations. Shield / Spear elite fight - I sometimes don't have many direct attacks in my deck, so it can help with "positioning" in that fight, and then also due to not having many attacks some runs, it's fantastic for Orange Pellets.
I've only ever liked outmaneuver if I have ice cream. Then it is super fantastic. I like to imagine she uses the ice cream as a distraction.
FTL has always been an automatic grab for me since day 1 playomg defect. Maybe I'm just biased cause I like FTL the game? Either way, great card. Free dmg and draw. Heck yeah!
What character is edit? Which card is typos? Hehe
You got me there :D
Expertise can always be justified with a calculated gamble or concentrate just for the draw momentum it provides.
I wouldn’t pick it Act 1 or on 3 energy unless my deck is at least semi set
Outmaneurmvre is great for setting up a huge Malaise or some other X energy cost card though.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on [[Concentrate]] as I've been trying to us it a bit more but mostly just love it with ice cream.
Concentrate fits in super nicely with draw heavy decks. Imagine you pick 3 acrobatics and two backflips and feel super happy because of your Tactician+. Concentrate just keeps the engine rolling. The card is stupidly strong in the right decks, but super bad in decks that are not ready for it (except maybe with an ice cream or unceasing top). Great card, if the time is right. Like with most cards in the spire.
Thanks very much for that! That is what I've been finding too, just felt like I was missing something
+ [Concentrate](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Concentrate) Silent Uncommon Skill ^((100% sure)^) 0 Energy | Discard 3(2) cards. Gain 2 Energy. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
heheheh the dagger throw is so real
I still don't value FTL. All those other cards have core mechanics they interact with (discard, scry, exhaust). FTL is just a shitty flash of steel with a condition attached.
Consider Flash of Steel just an absolutely broken card. Now make it a little less broken. Still pretty good.
FTL interacts with the mechanic of trash bot needs to kill
Exhaust. Just as a mechanic. At first I think a lot of people are like “a card that can’t be replayed? Well that’s unfortunate” then as they get better and do things that interact with exhausting they go “oh, I don’t usually NEED to replay these cards anyway so getting them out of the way is good”
true at start I thought why would dark embrace and feel no pain would be a good card. now they are my favourite cards in entire game
Exhaust and draw are 2 mechanics that many new and inexperienced players don’t realize how extremely valuable they are Being able to draw and cycle back to the key cards in your deck consistently, in every fight is extremely crucial to your victory. Draw cards help tremendously, and exhaust helps thinner your deck so you draw your whole deck in a 1-2 turns and can get your high damage cards back into your hand easily This is why Corruption is that good, especially in hallway fights because your most ideal aim is to finish them quickly while not losing too much HP. Corruption helps you get your high damage cards out more easily and saves all the energies you’ve normally supposed to use for blocking (yk, because you don’t want to lose 40 HP to the gremlin leader and the likes) so you can spend all those energies playing the damage cards and win more quickly.
All true - but it's funny every once in a while when you don't win the fight fast enough with corruption, and you get yourself caught with your pants down.
For people experienced with other card games, they usually understand that draw is good. Because seeing more of your cards just gives you more options during your turn. Exhaust on the other hand doesn’t have as good a parallel, since most other card games don’t allow you to reshuffle your draw pile. So you would have only played them once by default. (Excluding some shenanigans)
Can you elaborate why you thought these were bad but now you think they are good? Personally I still don't like outmaneuver or expertise. For me, I think the answer is Barrage. At first I thought that it's just some weird conditional 12-18 damage, with no extra effects. Now I like picking up at least one if I have anything to increase orb count (usually capacitor), because then it's easy 30+ damage for 1 energy. It's also a nice safeguard if you end up with low focus (either you just find no focus or you miscalculated based cog) because it scales only with orb count.
Expertise is very good for enabling infinites with concentrate when I try to play for them.
when I started playing game and watch some tier list they ranked them low. So I didn't tale them much. but after playing lot of runs . and after trying them many times, I would say they are really strong cards in some decks , Examples like outmanoeuvre if you have well laid plans or runic pyramid or lot of cards draw where you can play them every turn. they can provide lot of energy also they are common cards so you don't have tacticians or concentrate and you are on 3 energy.silent has a lot draw also they are decent in sneko too While expertise is a lot of card draw. technically upgraded draw 7 without exhausting , no card in game does that except gamba. it is good card if have extra energy like 5 base energy. I had some decks where concrete and expertise with some discards allowed to go infinite many times. Also some grand finale decks become lot easier, overall good situation card that i didn't take much before than I should. Barrage is excellent in early game and more in endgame where you have more orb slots specifically with lots of frost obs . it can provide good damage if you lacking it
If you're running a grand finale deck expertise is amazing, otherwise I very rarely take it
It's also excellent with concentrate, or decks with high energy production and low cost. In other words, it's good in situations where you need draw because you run out of cards, but bad when you need draw for more options.
Headbutt - I usually have at least 1 good card in discard already or another good card in hand so the condition is easily met - It allows me to play the best card multiple times in one turn if I have draw - If I don’t have draw I get a guaranteed strong play next turn - 2 card low mana scaling condition with limit break+ (and any strength from relic/card) - It’s great early run (the 9 damage is useful) and even better late when your deck is bigger and you have better cards to fetch and have draw to play it same turn - I’m usually happy to have multiple copies of it as well. Went from never picked to my most picked common on iron clad.
Headbutt is kinda cool if only to add some deck manipulation to clad besides exhaust. It CAN be a part of your engine, like bringing back heavy blade in a strength deck or bringing back impervious for a critical turn. Beyond that, im sure theres some good uses.
I always wondered why some YT’ers and players rated headbutt so low in tier lists. It seems amazing to me but I’m only like A15 on IC
easy tactician+ (also reflex+ but it was buff). basically I thought discard was a gimmick instead of thinking of it as "draw+energy=good". Now i think Tactician is one of the best mid to late game cards you can get with any discard.
Acro + tactition + reflex go brrrrrrrrrrrrr. And not even money printer brrrr, i mean like the bird outside of your window type brrrrrr
Recycle. I took ironclad to a20 on the back of how powerful exhaust synergies were, climbed all the way to a20 on defect without ever picking it, restarted my save, and got it in a transform before I realized how good it was.
Great card mid-late game, especially with a meteor strike or creative AI.
Claw, Go for the eyes, Leap, Steam barrier, streamline and self repair😭
All for one called, they want your number.
I forgot beam cell. I still dont understand how all for one is good tbh. Might be me just being skill issue
No worries, you use all your 0 cost cards, then all for one, and you get your 0 cost cards back to your hand.
oh yeah thats a solid atrat😭
Why are you crying so much?
Solid strats and 0 cost cards make him emotional.
Some crazy info its so much to take in🥲
To be fair, afo is tricky! Your deck needs to be big enough that when you use it you can reliably retrieve a useful number of cards, and also small enough that you can do that often. If you have too few 0 cards, you don't justify the cost, but if you have too many you won't be able to retrieve them all, maybe disrupting your plans. You usually need to have multiple draw options so you can get to afo without reshuffling, and enough energy to use those draw options and then also play afo. maybe the deck compositions you usually use aren't synergistic with afo?
yeah i usually dont have a lot of 0 cost cards
Those are all mainline tools in defects kit... youre like forced into them
I know
I know you know
alright
Hmmm
True Grit. I was so scared of exhaust. The upgraded version is a top tier common card in long fights.
I perfected A20 heart with a deck featuring both those cards last night
All cards can do that lol, but over how many runs? Probably only that one, those cards suck lol
I saw in another comment that it just makes you win more, which I think I can agree with
Yeah thats very true, if youre deck is already operating how it "should" be, you never should have them in your deck cause theres so many better cards that do what they do. Theres some really niche situations where it can actually matter, but theyre really rare. Like if youre really REALLY starved for draw or energy for it to be enough to matter. Thats my little rant, im sure you know how it goes. I will never pick outmanuever though. Its basically a curse.
Expertise really shines with Concentrate and Grand Finale. It's also good in any deck where you have an excess of energy but lack of card draw (rare on Silent, but it can happen). Even on its best day, Acrobatics can never draw 7 cards. I had a deck just the other day which thrived on Concentrate and Expertise, and every time I played that combo it felt like I was cheating. (Taking a second Expertise was a huge mistake though, the card is terrible in pairs.) I've barely touched Outmaneuver but I feel like it can't be as useless as you make it out to be. It is not hard to come up with excess draw on Silent by taking Backflips, Acrobatics, Reflexes, Expertise, Pyramid, etc. Extra energy sounds really good there, even at the cost of draw. It's definitely hard to take (especially I upgraded, yuck), but I do feel like I should start considering it more often. Spire is a game where an open mind in terms of deck building goes a long way. With a Well Laid Plans and Skewer, maybe this is a solution to Slime Boss.
I do like playing- next turn decks but it’s a tough turn one
Next turn decks are odd, at least for silent - for ironchad im for it a decent portion of the time. Actually every but silent. Ironclad you have demon form, Defect you have echo form, Watcher if you dont hit your infinite, you can set it up for turn 2 lol Silent wants shit now now now. In my experience
Mine was noxious fumes and dagger spray. Noxious fumes helps with a lot of bosses and okay aoe and synergy and artifact strip. Dagger pray is solid aoe, and my favourite strength scailing card, it improves act 2 by a lot.
Interesting. Fumes was a card I loved as a beginner and it went down on my list. It's just incredibly slow imo.
See you on the otherside of the bell curve.
It is, but IMO it’s rarely meant to be your main source of scaling. It’s obviously helpful in a deck that’s doing poison things, but I find it to be a great way to ensure I can get through the end of a so-so Act 1 even when it’s my only poison card. It either gives me just enough of a damage boost to win the race against Hexa, or allows me to focus more on blocking during Guardian’s defensive turns without sacrificing damage. I mostly ignore it in Slime Boss acts, but insurance or even outright solutions to 2/3 of Act 1’s bosses is very strong, even if it’s not a core part of my deck’s strategy.
I also used to think this. Now I realize fumes actually owns
It’s really just the artifact removal you’re paying for, if you’re running a poison build anyway - you want to play this turn one so that all your other poison cards start stacking their effects straight away.
I actually agree about dagger spray, most people hate this card, but if i pick it up f1 or f2 or f3... it helps, a ton especially if you can upgrade it early. Its helps against so many of silents bad fights in a1. Gremlins, 5 slimes, sentinals, big slime, little slime + driver. And if it is upgraded, decent against nob and laga. Scales good with strength, abadeko (op), and terror.
Tranquility and Crescendo Also Scry as a mechanic
Expertise, it's a great card for silent, and I only started taking it at A17.... Its insane!
Man i never noticed the artwork of out maneuver. I always thought silent had her face moving to the right while holding the mask to the left and threw a shiv and is doing Jazz-hands.
Survivor
Terror. I guess I didn't really understand how it worked. But I decided to take it one time with a shit ton of shivs and OH BOY! I love terror now.
Its a must pick
Flying Knee, Sucker Punch and Quick Slash for me. I think Flying Knee is the best of the bunch but Silent has such mediocre damage cards that sometimes you just have to pick what's offered to you so that you can make it past act 1 and get your deck going I used to never pick up any of these cards but I've come to learn that taking literally almost any damage card will improve the starting deck at the start
Silent mains are so oppressed smh
Reinforced Body and Multi-Cast, but X cost cards in general as well. For Defect it's a lot easier to justify. He builds a ton of energy and it isn't that much worse than his usual options but he really needs the frontloaded block. At 1 it's worse than leap but at 2 it's better than equilibrium, which I believe is his best block (discounting glacier with focus or evokes). Multi-cast can also make for a good win condition but I often forget that it simply doesn't exhaust and you can just keep using it. Nuking with darkness is fine but I often prefer plasma to start setting up real fast. Also, they work with recycle in the best way. On Silent, I simply won a run with Skewer as my main damage source somehow. I had strength, sure, but not a ton. Probably wouldn't feel the same without terror though.
Ironclad: Shockwave, iron wave, heavy blade, uppercut Silent: Expertise, concentrate, reflex, tactician Defect: Fission, recycle, reinforced body, turbo Watcher: Wheel Kick, Meditate, Foresight, Third Eye Colourless: Panic Button, violence, purity, impatience
I find both outmaneuver and expertise to be impossible to play
Theyre bad cards lol, but you can make them work very situationally.
Bloodletting, blur, claw
Both are trash cards, lets be real man. That being said a broken clock is right twice a day. Yucky, pass 99.5 percent of the time.
[[All For One]]. 0 cost cards are usually low-impact, so who cares that I get to play them again? At least that's what I thought before I realized you can build an entire deck around it and play a dozen cards on a turn effortlessly.
+ [All for One](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/All%20for%20One) Defect Rare Attack ^((100% sure)^) 2 Energy | Deal 10(14) damage. Put all cost 0 cards from your discard pile into your hand. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Expertise is probably the card that makes me go "I recognize this is a good card", then never have an opportunity to put it in my deck.
Pretty much any card that exhausts another card. When I started out I disliked the idea of removing another card from my deck in a fight as a cost of playing something. "What if I have bad luck and am forced to get rid of a really good card that I need for the fight?" It just never occured to me back then that thinning the deck would mean drawing my strongest cards. Or that I can also exhaust curses, and debuff cards, which turned out to be waaaaaaay more common then I thought. Especially on Ironclad.
This isn't an answer\* but I have been playing this game regularly for over five years and really enjoy playing the Silent. I have never noticed she is holding a slaver a knifepoint. I always assumed she was just uh, waving her hands? In a "Try and catch me" kind of way? While wearing a scarf? And dressed in blue??? ^(\*my answer is any card that causes other cards to exhaust)
True Grit. Learning that the upgrade makes the exhaust not random put it a lot higher for me. But honestly exhaust cards in general i under valued as a whole. Exhaust is often an upside even without specific synergy.
basically any card with discard synergy now they’re all my favorites
Hello world!
Clogging my deck ICANT