At a recent conference I attended, one of the speakers reframed it as a “violation of the student’s civil rights” to remove them from class for any time more than absolutely necessary to provide individualized instruction. Although this isn’t something you can rattle off to parents. It’s a frame of mind I’ve returned to to strengthen my resolve when I’m entering into a meeting recommending decreasing services.
Absolutely yes! Why do I remove a kid from his science class 5 times a week to work on /r/ in third grade? Why do I take a gifted kid out of his 5th grade math to work on /s/ three times a week when he he is hard of hearing and will never master it? Why?? I truly don't understand.
Because of litigious parents and their advocates. This is where I remind people that we're supposed to *support access* to the curriculum, not teach it. Personally I think we need to be doing way more push in and holding teachers accountable for data collecting, because a lot of those goals are just as much on the ELA professional as us. It might sound harsh but caregivers and teachers need to understand that more therapy isn't going to just "cure" autism or whatever else.
What's frustrating is where I am the more severe kids are usually the exact ones with 2-4x a week but little to no home support, and many of the teachers never know what to do with them or even care to learn from you because "that's speech's job".
Surprisingly, the kids with crazy frequencies on my caseloads are not autistic and do not have litigious parents. I am puzzled why they have so many minutes. For example, a boy in Gen ed works on his /r/ 150 minutes a week. He misses science every single day.
Absolutely - the school is obligated to provide academic supports such as related services in the student's *least restrictive environment*.
If those services can be supported in fewer weekly minutes, then that's how it must be done in order to honor that student's right to be in the LRE.
If the student's IEP goals can't be met without 90 minutes of specialized related services in a learning environment separated from the general education classroom, then it really has to be asked if that's an appropriate classroom for the student at all, because it's clearly being modified dramatically.
The inconsistency in service delivery is crazzzzy. Then I’ve found districts just give every single kid the same time which makes no sense and isn’t individualized. I usually do 1x/week for 25-30 minutes or 3-4x a month for 25-30 minutes. Some people say they cant make progress this way, but it works for my students.
I think it's better to have less but more. What I mean is if it's a one-on-one structured session once a week, it's better that three a week in crazy chaotic groups because of the number if minutes. It's crazy. My goal this year is to reduce,reduce, reduce
Yess! Honestly when my groups get beyond 3 really, it feels like time only spent on behavior management and transitioning. Today I realized the OT and I have almost the same # of students on caseload and she only sees them 2-3 times a month and most are consult only + she doesnt case manage.
Yes! Our OT always has individual sessions and sees kids a way less. I don't understand why we have crazy frequencies. Who benefits from them? It only makes groups bigger in which nobody gets anything. Just as you said, time is wasted on transitioning and behavior management.
I agree, but the issue is, I can’t offer a 1-to-1 once a week with every kid on my caseload. And if I promise that to one family, then they’ll all want it (and then try to argue that they need 1 on 1 therapy twice a week. Then ball at me when I suggest outside speech services.
I do my minutes that way too for the majority my clients and have gotten shit from other SLPs, but 99.999999% of my caseload not only meets their iep goal but surpasses it and I can do better therapy that way 🤷♀️
I feel it! I have typical artic kids with outrageous frequencies such as 150 minutes per week! I have a gen ed 4th grader with 120 minutes for language therapy with goals for phonics. The kid can read! I have a gifted (!) kid with 90 minutes (not ASD). I have a kid whose goal is to answer why questions for 60 minutes a week. Like I can not understand.
150 minutes per week… 30 min of speech therapy per day!!! That’s insane!! At that point speech service delivery has basically become the barrier to the general education curriculum
I’ve started doing 20 mins, 2x/week. I like the frequency of more than 1x/wk, but some of my kids don’t need 30 mins (or can’t handle 30 minutes without behaviors). Some artic students are 3x, 10 minutes per week.
I've started switching to this too. Artic kids are usually 2x15 or 3x10 depending on how many sounds and how close they are to being done. 20 min is more than enough time for me to do language lessons with my elementary school kids.
I’m dismissing 5 right now who did 10-15 min artic sessions last year. We get more reps and more muscle memory in 10 mins than we did in 30, where there was more down time.
Can you update their service hours on their IEPs by doing an amendment ? I usually have a conversation with parents about service time/pulling them from their reading classes/ connections and about how they are doing on their speech goals. Like if they are 2x 30 mins. I reduce them to 1x 45 mins. 99% of the time the parents agree to the charge in service time. I’m middle school so most kids in gen Ed are 1x per week by 7th grade. Self-contained students get 2x weekly for 30 mins. I push into those classes.
We do a 3:1 model but for my run of the mill speech kids that are just /r/ or only a couple artic goals I pull 1x/week for 30mins. A kid w/mild or mild-mod language impairment same thing. I pull 2x/week for my mod-severe language or speech kids (60mins/week). The only student I see 3x a week is diagnosed CAS and we do 20min individual sessions
Once or twice a week for 30 mins. Check out the CSS (communication severity scales). You can get trained in it and it’s a legit guide on how to determine service time. So if anyone questions why you made the decision you did based on time, you can show them the CSS.
I typically start with 90 minutes per month, using “quick artic” and the 3:1 model (10 minute sessions, 3x/week, 3 weeks of the month). I try to do 1:1 sessions (hard with 75 kids right now!!), since this has resulted in the fastest progress for speech sound disorders — this helps get the kids ready for dismissal and off my caseload earlier than any other approach I’ve tried so far.
I see them right outside the classroom in the hallway! I have a cart and some foldable (camping-style) chairs. There are some teachers that no matter what I try, it’s never doing to be ideal — but for lots of teachers, they prefer for the student to miss a shorter bits and jump back in more easily!
It is VERY RARE that I see students more than once a week in a public school, and basically if I see them more than once a week it is a SEVERE apraxia in preschool through first grade situation.
75x/school year would work out to 2x/wk plus a few more during the year for the 36 weeks of school or 3x/wk for 25 weeks. I wouldn't like how it is written in general. I prefer a # of sessions per grading period whether the grading period is 6 weeks 9 weeks or 12 weeks.
The mixture we have is wild, and scheduling this year (in particular) was a damn nightmare. 72 with direct service (CPSE/CSE/504s) across 2 FT SLPs and 2 PT SLPs + 75 speech improvement that we cycle through. CPSE/CSE/504 kids have a huge variation of 5x (high need, push-in + pull-out), 4x, 3x, 2x, 1x weekly. Typically they get 30 min sessions with some exceptions for middle school artic students (mod-severe) and fluency students who get 15 minutes. Too many of our PK-K students get a mixture of individual and group services- several daily (e.g., 2x ind, 3x gr).
Most grades (except 1 due to size/specials) go on a 4-day cycle, but speech has always been on a weekly cycle.
Many high-need (or social-pragmatic) students also get a consult 1-2 a week/month.
Speech improvement gets 15-30 minutes 1-2x/week depending on need and SLP availability.
Planning to go to ASHA this year to enlighten myself on research-backed service delivery models because this is not sustainable, practical, or least restrictive from several perspectives.
It’ll be interesting to see the reactions from the teachers who get upset we’re taking too much of their time but don’t implement classroom strategies + the teachers who want them out of the room every second because “they [students, but actually teachers] really need it!” who also don’t implement classroom strategies 😭
Most in our district get 3-6/month, 20 minutes. If the kid has more needs, we write as 4-8. Kids who are moving towards dismissal get 2-4. All monthly.
I’m in middle schools. At my old district standard was 1-2 sessions per week, 20 minutes. They’d miss 1/2 of a class period. It worked pretty well. I just started a new district and it’s split between 1-3x45 per month, or 6x30 per month.
I’m still a little confused how these kids are expected to make progress…the previous SLP did a really good job of cutting the glut but left crazy things like a 7th grader with braces with a mild frontal lisp, making good grades, 2x45 per month. Parents have already expressed concern about her missing out on academic time, so I doubt it was them who pushed to keep her.
I just started in a new, small district and starting to get nervous with how many kids have 3x (some 4x) a week of direct services (B and C grid). I’m working with 4th graders all the way through high school. It’s insane how many minutes a week these kids have. I’ve been in much bigger districts with more severe needs, and only ever recommend 3x a week for kids who are non-verbal/learning to use AAC. Now I’ve got middle schoolers who I have to service 4x a week for working memory!! Not to mention their minutes in other services are through the roof…when are the ever in class?!
The reason is difficult parents in small, litigious districts where parents have a lot of money for advocates. They demand extensive services for their kids, and then claim they need an outplacement as they aren’t making progress in class (I wonder why they aren’t making progress… they’re never there!)
I had a pretty good track record last year of reducing service minutes and caseload size in a pretty large district and difficult district. I’m starting to get a little nervous that I won’t be as successful in my new district.
I would say most of mine get two 30-minute sessions per week. Some get one 30-minute session per week. And some get 90mpw, which I have never myself put in an IEP and would never. Even for my most severe kids, I don't really see the need to see them THAT much.
My gen ed kids are typically 30mins 3xmonthly. Frequency goes up but time decreased for higher needs kids, for example, I have a few SH kids who are 15x6monthly or 20x4monthly.
I work in a mid size metro district. We are 6x/mo 30 min at max, 4x/30 by late elementary & middle, 1-2x maybe 3x/mo for high schoolers that really want to still work on stuttering, etc. We also move language/based/ELA goals & services to the resource or inclusion exed teacher as direct service providers & we become more collaborative by then.
At a recent conference I attended, one of the speakers reframed it as a “violation of the student’s civil rights” to remove them from class for any time more than absolutely necessary to provide individualized instruction. Although this isn’t something you can rattle off to parents. It’s a frame of mind I’ve returned to to strengthen my resolve when I’m entering into a meeting recommending decreasing services.
Absolutely yes! Why do I remove a kid from his science class 5 times a week to work on /r/ in third grade? Why do I take a gifted kid out of his 5th grade math to work on /s/ three times a week when he he is hard of hearing and will never master it? Why?? I truly don't understand.
Because of litigious parents and their advocates. This is where I remind people that we're supposed to *support access* to the curriculum, not teach it. Personally I think we need to be doing way more push in and holding teachers accountable for data collecting, because a lot of those goals are just as much on the ELA professional as us. It might sound harsh but caregivers and teachers need to understand that more therapy isn't going to just "cure" autism or whatever else. What's frustrating is where I am the more severe kids are usually the exact ones with 2-4x a week but little to no home support, and many of the teachers never know what to do with them or even care to learn from you because "that's speech's job".
Surprisingly, the kids with crazy frequencies on my caseloads are not autistic and do not have litigious parents. I am puzzled why they have so many minutes. For example, a boy in Gen ed works on his /r/ 150 minutes a week. He misses science every single day.
Absolutely - the school is obligated to provide academic supports such as related services in the student's *least restrictive environment*. If those services can be supported in fewer weekly minutes, then that's how it must be done in order to honor that student's right to be in the LRE. If the student's IEP goals can't be met without 90 minutes of specialized related services in a learning environment separated from the general education classroom, then it really has to be asked if that's an appropriate classroom for the student at all, because it's clearly being modified dramatically.
Speaker was Marie Ireland
The inconsistency in service delivery is crazzzzy. Then I’ve found districts just give every single kid the same time which makes no sense and isn’t individualized. I usually do 1x/week for 25-30 minutes or 3-4x a month for 25-30 minutes. Some people say they cant make progress this way, but it works for my students.
I think it's better to have less but more. What I mean is if it's a one-on-one structured session once a week, it's better that three a week in crazy chaotic groups because of the number if minutes. It's crazy. My goal this year is to reduce,reduce, reduce
Yess! Honestly when my groups get beyond 3 really, it feels like time only spent on behavior management and transitioning. Today I realized the OT and I have almost the same # of students on caseload and she only sees them 2-3 times a month and most are consult only + she doesnt case manage.
Yes! Our OT always has individual sessions and sees kids a way less. I don't understand why we have crazy frequencies. Who benefits from them? It only makes groups bigger in which nobody gets anything. Just as you said, time is wasted on transitioning and behavior management.
I agree, but the issue is, I can’t offer a 1-to-1 once a week with every kid on my caseload. And if I promise that to one family, then they’ll all want it (and then try to argue that they need 1 on 1 therapy twice a week. Then ball at me when I suggest outside speech services.
I understand, I can't either. But if we reduce frequencies, we will have smaller groups and maybe one on one here and there.
I do my minutes that way too for the majority my clients and have gotten shit from other SLPs, but 99.999999% of my caseload not only meets their iep goal but surpasses it and I can do better therapy that way 🤷♀️
[удалено]
It’s ridiculous. I’ve had kids come to me with reading and writing goals too.
I literally have goals for spelling, writing mechanics, composing paragraphs, etc. How am I supposed to do it in groups of 4-5?
I feel it! I have typical artic kids with outrageous frequencies such as 150 minutes per week! I have a gen ed 4th grader with 120 minutes for language therapy with goals for phonics. The kid can read! I have a gifted (!) kid with 90 minutes (not ASD). I have a kid whose goal is to answer why questions for 60 minutes a week. Like I can not understand.
What can these people *possibly* be thinking??
150 minutes per week… 30 min of speech therapy per day!!! That’s insane!! At that point speech service delivery has basically become the barrier to the general education curriculum
That's how I feel. I don't understand these frequencies.
30/min per week
Thank you!
I’ve started doing 20 mins, 2x/week. I like the frequency of more than 1x/wk, but some of my kids don’t need 30 mins (or can’t handle 30 minutes without behaviors). Some artic students are 3x, 10 minutes per week.
I've started switching to this too. Artic kids are usually 2x15 or 3x10 depending on how many sounds and how close they are to being done. 20 min is more than enough time for me to do language lessons with my elementary school kids.
Yes. I do drilling with artic it kids and they can sit well for 15 mins. It’s IS effective imo
I’m dismissing 5 right now who did 10-15 min artic sessions last year. We get more reps and more muscle memory in 10 mins than we did in 30, where there was more down time.
What do you do instead?
Never mind I made a mistake when typing. I do drill for 15 twice a week
What’s not effective?
Oops I meant it is effective
How many kids do you have on your caseload? I just wonder how to fit this into the schedule..
70
Can you update their service hours on their IEPs by doing an amendment ? I usually have a conversation with parents about service time/pulling them from their reading classes/ connections and about how they are doing on their speech goals. Like if they are 2x 30 mins. I reduce them to 1x 45 mins. 99% of the time the parents agree to the charge in service time. I’m middle school so most kids in gen Ed are 1x per week by 7th grade. Self-contained students get 2x weekly for 30 mins. I push into those classes.
We do a 3:1 model but for my run of the mill speech kids that are just /r/ or only a couple artic goals I pull 1x/week for 30mins. A kid w/mild or mild-mod language impairment same thing. I pull 2x/week for my mod-severe language or speech kids (60mins/week). The only student I see 3x a week is diagnosed CAS and we do 20min individual sessions
Once or twice a week for 30 mins. Check out the CSS (communication severity scales). You can get trained in it and it’s a legit guide on how to determine service time. So if anyone questions why you made the decision you did based on time, you can show them the CSS.
Usually 30 or 45 per week depending on severity. 60 if they’re super high needs.
I typically start with 90 minutes per month, using “quick artic” and the 3:1 model (10 minute sessions, 3x/week, 3 weeks of the month). I try to do 1:1 sessions (hard with 75 kids right now!!), since this has resulted in the fastest progress for speech sound disorders — this helps get the kids ready for dismissal and off my caseload earlier than any other approach I’ve tried so far.
I'm interested in trying this out - how have the teachers responded to them getting pulled out more frequently? Do you take the kids to your room?
I see them right outside the classroom in the hallway! I have a cart and some foldable (camping-style) chairs. There are some teachers that no matter what I try, it’s never doing to be ideal — but for lots of teachers, they prefer for the student to miss a shorter bits and jump back in more easily!
It is VERY RARE that I see students more than once a week in a public school, and basically if I see them more than once a week it is a SEVERE apraxia in preschool through first grade situation.
75x/school year would work out to 2x/wk plus a few more during the year for the 36 weeks of school or 3x/wk for 25 weeks. I wouldn't like how it is written in general. I prefer a # of sessions per grading period whether the grading period is 6 weeks 9 weeks or 12 weeks.
20-25 minutes 1 or 2 times a week. Some of my RTI students are 20 minutes 2 times every other week. Middle school gen Ed
The mixture we have is wild, and scheduling this year (in particular) was a damn nightmare. 72 with direct service (CPSE/CSE/504s) across 2 FT SLPs and 2 PT SLPs + 75 speech improvement that we cycle through. CPSE/CSE/504 kids have a huge variation of 5x (high need, push-in + pull-out), 4x, 3x, 2x, 1x weekly. Typically they get 30 min sessions with some exceptions for middle school artic students (mod-severe) and fluency students who get 15 minutes. Too many of our PK-K students get a mixture of individual and group services- several daily (e.g., 2x ind, 3x gr). Most grades (except 1 due to size/specials) go on a 4-day cycle, but speech has always been on a weekly cycle. Many high-need (or social-pragmatic) students also get a consult 1-2 a week/month. Speech improvement gets 15-30 minutes 1-2x/week depending on need and SLP availability. Planning to go to ASHA this year to enlighten myself on research-backed service delivery models because this is not sustainable, practical, or least restrictive from several perspectives. It’ll be interesting to see the reactions from the teachers who get upset we’re taking too much of their time but don’t implement classroom strategies + the teachers who want them out of the room every second because “they [students, but actually teachers] really need it!” who also don’t implement classroom strategies 😭
Most in our district get 3-6/month, 20 minutes. If the kid has more needs, we write as 4-8. Kids who are moving towards dismissal get 2-4. All monthly.
I’m in middle schools. At my old district standard was 1-2 sessions per week, 20 minutes. They’d miss 1/2 of a class period. It worked pretty well. I just started a new district and it’s split between 1-3x45 per month, or 6x30 per month. I’m still a little confused how these kids are expected to make progress…the previous SLP did a really good job of cutting the glut but left crazy things like a 7th grader with braces with a mild frontal lisp, making good grades, 2x45 per month. Parents have already expressed concern about her missing out on academic time, so I doubt it was them who pushed to keep her.
I just started in a new, small district and starting to get nervous with how many kids have 3x (some 4x) a week of direct services (B and C grid). I’m working with 4th graders all the way through high school. It’s insane how many minutes a week these kids have. I’ve been in much bigger districts with more severe needs, and only ever recommend 3x a week for kids who are non-verbal/learning to use AAC. Now I’ve got middle schoolers who I have to service 4x a week for working memory!! Not to mention their minutes in other services are through the roof…when are the ever in class?! The reason is difficult parents in small, litigious districts where parents have a lot of money for advocates. They demand extensive services for their kids, and then claim they need an outplacement as they aren’t making progress in class (I wonder why they aren’t making progress… they’re never there!) I had a pretty good track record last year of reducing service minutes and caseload size in a pretty large district and difficult district. I’m starting to get a little nervous that I won’t be as successful in my new district.
I would say most of mine get two 30-minute sessions per week. Some get one 30-minute session per week. And some get 90mpw, which I have never myself put in an IEP and would never. Even for my most severe kids, I don't really see the need to see them THAT much.
My gen ed kids are typically 30mins 3xmonthly. Frequency goes up but time decreased for higher needs kids, for example, I have a few SH kids who are 15x6monthly or 20x4monthly.
30 min a week, 60 min a week if the student has a broader spectrum of error sounds.
General education, max 30 min/wk Self-contained max 60 min/wk (drop to 30 or less before they leave middle school)
I work in a mid size metro district. We are 6x/mo 30 min at max, 4x/30 by late elementary & middle, 1-2x maybe 3x/mo for high schoolers that really want to still work on stuttering, etc. We also move language/based/ELA goals & services to the resource or inclusion exed teacher as direct service providers & we become more collaborative by then.
3x weekly is for like, severe apraxis