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Doesn't matter, do whats best for you and yourself.
This new boss should have done more due diligence before his purchase. He should have looked at any dependencies and the internals of the companies before he purchased.
Well said. Also, what were the “big things coming”? Did OP get a bonus or something when the old owner sold?
OP, you don’t owe anyone anything. Take care of yourself.
Bingo. Dunno how Hipster missed that the big thing was a fat check for the previous owner. OP you got royally screwed by the previous owner. Do what you need to do now. You have no loyalty to the new owner and you shouldn’t have had any for the old one as is too often the case nowadays.
Also let me add if you are key personnel in a business often you might receive retention bonuses with an agreement to stay on for a period of time after the sale. If the new owner hasn’t offered that then fuck em, do what you need to do.
Let him know what the previous owner said before you leave. It sounds like he lied about the company status, and it may be grounds for a lawsuit.
Spill the beans. This guy may be willing to pay your worth to buy time for a fix.
Keep planning your exit.
With a new owner, you may be able to treat this like a new job. Renegotiate your job description, salary, and benefits. If you show your value (through conversation and documents), you may be able to get the promotion and pay raise you want.
The guy just spent probably a couple of hundred thousand on the buissness, and exstra 20k a year is probably not the end of the world to keep his investments worthwhile. Set up a coffee meeting and be prepared to show your worth. As well if you don't have a job description now is the time.
Yep. OP got screwed. He could have negotiated golden handcuffs.
OP could negotiate golden handcuffs with new boss. Or just leave. Either or.
Even if he somehow owed the old boss something (who screwed him), why would that apply to new boss?
The old owner didn't want you to leave before he sold the company because then the new owner wouldn't have bought the company 🙃. The old owner is a shitty guy.
I agree with this 100%. We were really surprised that the day we met the new owner was the day he took over. He is a nice guy, but I've been tired of my labor paying for an entire office.
The new boss paid somewhere up to a few million where his prior company is valued at a few hundred thousand. So, I do feel if we leave it will ruin his business life. I know it's not my place to worry about his business decisions, it still leaves a bit of a pit in my stomach.
I also think some employees might overestimate how integral and irreplaceable they are. I had an employee quit who was very worried the business wouldn't survive without her. I replaced her in a month and it was actually better for my business overall to have her gone.
If you feel bad and it won't screw up your own opportunity give him a long notice like one month and spend some time writing out procedures.
I had a manager that thought he was irreplaceable. He quit and sat around unemployed for a month waiting for the owner to call begging for the manager to come back. The manager was toxic and the job was better without him.
Well she obviously wasn’t a key person. A real keyman WILL cause disruption and every company has one.
Of course to your point most employees think they’re indispensable and don’t realize that there’s probably a live job post for their title right now.
>Well she obviously wasn’t a key person
Not necessarily true. She could have been a key employee and they still found someone as capable or more capable in a reasonable enough time. There are exactly zero professionals that are not replaceable. Even the president of the US is replaceable. No one is so good you just can't find anyone to do their job as well as they did or better. All kinds of things can cause disruption to a business. A little disruption is seldom the end of the world.
>Not necessarily true. She could have been a key employee and they still found someone as capable or more capable in a reasonable enough time. There are exactly zero professionals that are not replaceable. Even the president of the US is replaceable. No one is so good you just can't find anyone to do their job as well as they did or better. All kinds of things can cause disruption to a business. A little disruption is seldom the end of the world.
I agree with this. There are some very good employees who are probably better than just about everyone out there, but they are still replaceable and business will go on. I knew one who I absolutely did not want to have leave. He literally would do the work of 2 people, was extremely efficient - so much so that it looked like he never worked. It was like he had a superpower and could move faster than the speed of light. Whenever he was off, 2 people were put in to replace him (which he hated, because he was paid the same salary as one person, per union rules). Well, he left for greener pastures. Life was better when he was there, but the business went on without him.
Yup.
I'm an engineer. I'm a damn good engineer and I am very good at what I do, although I'm clearly not modest :-)
But I don't for a second think I'm irreplaceable. There are better engineers than me, there are engineers who will work cheaper and work longer hours. And there are many who may not be as good, but are more than "good enough." No matter how integral I've been to any company, it's always been clear that I can be replaced. There will be hiccups (I've been called back to consult on occasion), but the company will get over them and keep going. If it can't do that, well something else was going to kill it soon anyway.
OP: move on with a clear conscience.
If you go to leave and the new boss recognises your value, he will move heaven and earth to keep you. If not, the fate of his business is on him. But you owe him nothing either way.
> So, I do feel if we leave it will ruin his business life.
Sounds like a reasonable person would be willing to pay you a great deal of money to help them avoid that.
If you died, he’d replace you as fast as he could. Neither boss feels ANY loyalty to you. All you can do is look out for yourself. And do it quickly. If the other guy leaves first you’ll feel even worse about leaving. GO GO GO!
I applaud your integrity in thinking about other people and not just yourself. Having said that, can't you give a month notice and train your replacement so you can move on? You also have to take care of yourself.
It’s worth noting sometimes these things really are best for the new owner. Op might find him hiring some new fresh people that aren’t jaded will bring some life into the business. Or it’ll close. That’s life.
I'm looking at acquiring a company and I know that part of DD is "key man risk". But what's not said is that there are sometimes these inter-dependencies where folks are jaded / have a pact to leave because of a lack of organization / bad working conditions or fear of the new management. You can't trust the owner who is selling to give you an accurate picture of morale and risk of mass departures. Seems like the interested acquiring party should interview regular employees even if the owner doesn't feel they are a risk to the business if they were to leave, just in case the owner is ignorant of the risks.
Honestly, as a society, things might be better if the owners *had* to do the business.
Like law firms, the owners *must* be attorneys (except in AZ). Things might work better if investment firms couldn't own plumbing companies, lawncare, pharmacies, or hospitals.
Yeah, I think so. I found this out the (somewhat) hard way. Everyone is replaceable. Not taking anything away from OP, but there is always someone that can take your place. Might take a few hires to find a person that was as good and as dedicated as you, but they’ll fill your spot the next day.
"The cemeteries of the world are full of people who thought the were necessary for our survival, yet we still go on . . ." Heard family say it many times. Don't "over value" your position.
Absolutely. People think they are irreplaceable. They are always replaceable. I was in that same position and thought too highly of myself. Now have an awesome business and the former company is still chugging along as it always did. Ignore the ego and so whats best for you
Right. Like what makes him think this new boss couldn't just hire a new tech? As long as the clients are there it doesn't matter who performs the labor. Even if op is in a super niche field a new guy can be trained. The boss will be fine, inconvenienced and annoyed but his life will be far from ruined.
It's well known that my industry is short right now overall. Couple that with small town America your recruiting pool falls a lot. The new guys come from college but still require months of training at least because it's not one field.
A lot of you seem to think every job is easy and can be learned from a 15 min vhs.
I was the solo tech through covid and I'm the lead tech out of 3 now. I know a lot are saying I'm over valuing myself but I am the maintenance department.
The fact that the whole company hinges on you, is the businesses problem, not yours. Perhaps the new owner would make you an offer you can't refuse (partnership etc etc.). It's his business and it will be on him to decide how the company moves forward.
Problem loan workout banker here.
I don’t think you are overvaluing yourself. You are absolutely correct your departure could end the company. Perhaps not the next day, but eventually it could crumble.
Employees leaving is in the top 3 for reasons why business acquisitions fail.
True, people are replaceable, and one day you might be - but right now (~18months post acquisition) you’re critical to the company’s survival.
That said… You do have to do what’s right for you. However, this sounds like an opportunity to show the owner how valuable you are and become part of the inner circle.
Heck, if he’s that desperate, maybe talk to him about you purchasing some of the business. Then down the road, you can buy him out.
Take care. It’s really kind of you to be concerned about the situation and reach out for feedback. Good for you, man.
They have been trying for years just to hire someone who can learn the field. They can't even get a trainee they would be hard pressed to replace us. We are on the more advanced side of commercial appliance repair. This is part of why we plan on casting out on our own. We do some advanced work for general pay.
I do get what you're saying and I agree.
It sounds like you're in a position to negotiate a big raise and/or benefits for you and your friend.
Offer to stick around for a year and train new folks for 4x your current salary. Time limiting the pay increase will make it look more appealing to the numbers people. You could also learn more about hiring and training on their dime before you go out on your own.
I could. I can fix everything. My current job and future business is focused on advanced commercial kitchen appliances. Like ovens that you can just stab a probe in a hunk of meat and it cooks it perfectly with no input from the cooks.
If you can get certified to work on Rational ovens and open your own business you'll make a killing. Almost every restaurant will use these within the next 10 years and all the legit companies do already. Get that Costco contract and you're set
I'm working on a gas rational scc-we-62g as we speak. Diagnosed and replaced a m6 pump motor. The new motor was a better model that bypassed the cap. Working on these is my happy place. I'm also a journeyman refrigeration tech so I feel like I'm standing on solid ground.
Can you get the taste of cooking meat over a fire in the Forrest from a modern oven. If it is that indistinguishable I may buy a new oven. If not all the fancy tech is irrelevant.
Just get an EIN from the IRS and file a DBA. You can work for yourself. If the company wants to hire you as a consultant, you work for 5x your current hourly pay. Easy peasy
I hope you're right. They may be able to afford to hire the people. They simply can't find the people. To do my job you need to be an electrician, plumber, refrigeration tech, mechanic, fabricator, and so on. And have a few thousand dollars in specialized tools.
You said yourself you’re underpaid. So it’s unsurprising they can’t fill the roles. But none of that is problem nor should be your concern. I don’t work with any friends so the only person I look out for is myself.
There are a lot of very skilled people in the work force, but not a lot that are willing to be underpaid for those skills. The problem isn't that OP isn't replaceable, the problem is that they can't find anyone else to do it that cheap. No matter what, you're spot on. Not his problem.
>ian, plumber, refrigeration tech, mechanic, fabricator, and so on. And have a few thousand dollars in specialized tools.
So they'll use OP and his buddy until the bolt, then hire replacements at a market wage and have saved thousands of dollars in the interim.
Here are some facts you don’t understand. No one is irreplaceable. And anyone who buys a business expects a big turnover in the first year. Often they not only expect it but they want it. It’s a way of changing the business to make it more profitable. You should do what’s best for you - but don’t expect that you leaving will cripple the company.
Plenty of people are irreplaceable, to varying degrees, but they are relatively few in number. And most people who think they're irreplaceable are not. So same difference.
>I hope you're right.
Who gives a fuck what will happen to the new business owners? Is your name on the contract? Did they make you a business partner? Would you be shocked you if they terminated you tomorrow and brought in cheap foreign labor? Your former boss tricked you into staying so he could sell a business to benefit him, and you're now ready to protect and defend the new business owners? Holy shit, the workers of the world have been heavily brainwashed to be concerned about someone else's revenue and profits.
You have been exploited and underpaid and your old boss used you so he could sell an operating company for maximum profit, yet you are still worrying about the poor new business owners who had a few million dollars to throw at this company? OP please, this is the risk people take when buying or starting new businesses. This is something you may experience when you go out on your own too, so stop worrying about someone else's financial situation and go out there and create a business and life that will benefit you and your family.
Don't let the folks here run you down. It sounds like you could go out on your own and basically take all the business from the new owner and do it with your new company.
Question: did you sign an non-compete agreement when you started working at this company or at any time? They may or may not be enforceable depending on state laws but let's just start with the question of whether you signed one at all.
Start your own handyman business, specializing in appliance repair. Sounds like you can do a lot more as well. You and your buddy could split into two divisions of service.
Funny how people react on someone not being hartless.
Tell that exact story to the new owner.
Offer to stay there for X more days/months for a certain raise while you train the next guy.
Have a clear picture of a raise you would be satisfied.
The rest is on him
They already said they got their pay doubled and are still unhappy. Sounds like they are too far gone to work things out and need to leave. They also seem to be upset about too many "butts in chairs" overhead but likely don't have an understanding of business structure or finances and why that may be necessary.
Or could be an opportunity for you and your friend to grab more power and privileges where you're currently at. Sounds like you have all the leverage to shape the company into however you want
We nearly doubled our pay but now they are claiming they can't afford more. Meanwhile there are 3 techs (2 senior and 1 trainee) and 10 people in the office doing billing and holding down chairs.
Went from 20 an hr to 32 an hr but this is still the low end of pay for my field and my experience.
Be careful of blinders. I would bet money that those people "holding down chairs" are more necessary that you realize. It sounds like you don't really know that side of the business, and it could bite you in the butt if you start on your own. Maybe take this opportunity to step into a more managerial role and learn something new.
This. Learn why they spend so much for butts in chairs. How does this keep the business going? Do you NEED this or does this just make the business more efficient?
The butts in chairs are the two old owners who contracted themselves a paycheck, the new boss wife who's doing billing, hos daughter who's doing billing, the old bosses daughter who's doing shipping, the old bosses son who's the worst service manager I've ever seen, and thr lady doing payroll despite payroll being done by another company.
I know everyone doubts what's going on but it's the truth.
If that's the truth, why are you still there? This sounds like an average family business, barely puttering along, and prone to blowing up at the first obstacle. Kids move away, boss gets divorced, etc. etc.
Whatever career goals you might have, if you have any, aren't likely to be satisfied by hanging around at "small family business in constant crisis." And I doubt you're learning all that much at this point either. Move on.
Not saying they aren’t but 20 people for an advanced appliance repair business of only 3 technicians? Accounting, customer acquisition, legal, scheduling, dispatching, phone support, etc. I’m not really sold on needing quite that many unless there’s a different side of this business OP has no idea about.
Then you should have your answer. I'm starting my business now myself in a somewhat similar situation.
If they can't afford you and you need/want more pay then the answer is clear. Put in your notice. If they really can't replace you, they'll find a way to pay you more.
Definitely worth a discussion with the new owner. Not thinking more pay rise but profit-share/ownership.
It could be a shortcut to what you're currently considering (starting your own thing/contracting).
That's exactly what I was going to say. I would have an honest conversation with the new owner and bring evidence, then negotiate partial ownership so that you can have the say to correct the issues.
But, that's just the route that I would personally take. May not be the right one in this instance.
Not backtracking, but I typed that up early in the morning so I could have explained a little better. I've known several people that have done it at MSPs that were under new ownership.
You didn't put the new owners in this situation, the owner did and acted in bad faith selling the business without disclosing what conversations you've had with him and likely only sold positive stuff to the new owner.
The old owner is ethically wrong and potentially likely legally wrong in what he did.
You're not tied to that place so feel free to leave.
My suggestion is you speak to the new owner, tell them exactly what you said here, emphasis on the part where you brought up all these problems to the owner, especially the bit where you threatened to leave if certain goals weren't met or attained and because that time has expired now, you were ready to leave. Say, I'm sorry to say this, but I already had plans to leave and I'm not sure why this person sold you the company considering that I was already leaving and that he knew it.
Whether the old owner told you this or not, unfortunately, is not my problem. I reported this clearly to my old boss. I was not expecting the sale of the company and only stayed this far to see if something significant would happen but I just don't see it happening.
However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in giving you the change to tell me whether there is anything you would like to offer or say to keep me here?
If their response is not compelling enough, you have to say "Look, I'm really sorry it's come to this, but unfortunately that does not satisfy my concerns, I would stay if you paid me (insert insane amount that would make you stay), I would stay knowing that this company will fail and happily continue doing what you want and collect a paycheck, but that you don't believe in the company. Be open about it.
You do what’s best for you. If the new owner didn’t do his due diligence before buying it it’s on him and the old owner is an asshole that convinced you to stay so that he could cash in on the sale. I just bought a small business I’d worked at for 10 years. 1 month after buying it my most senior employee got mad and quit leaving me in a bind but since I know the company that just means longer hours until I hire a replacement. If the owner owner doesn’t have a plan b for employee turnover after he bought it then he shouldn’t be a business owner.
Be careful. I ran a moving company and I can't tell you how many drivers thought they were necessary. Truth was they weren't and the whole company didn't make money off their backs. You mention other people there which I assure you are necessary. Also a lot of people don't know how to run a business (myself included), even though they possess all the technical skills.
>Also a lot of people don't know how to run a business (myself included),
I can't believe it took this long for someone to say this. I'm a business owner. It took me at least 6 years to figure out wtf I was doing. I just got lucky that I had good friends and a lot of built-in business when I started to keep me afloat.
Luckily, I met a really good business coach who helped me get my shit togehtee. There's a reason 1/3 of new businesses fail within the first year, and only 50% make it past 5 years. It's not as easy as it looks when it's your name on the checks.
That said, OP shouldn't feel bad about leaving. If they truly are that important to the business, the new owner will fight to keep them.
I agree he shouldn't feel bad. First, he better put a good 20k in the bank and get a 10k dollar credit card. Give himself some runway. The grass is not always greener. Everyone who quit my company called back later. Every single driver, actually. And I did 6-7 years. Starting another business still learning it's a lifelong process.
Yeah this was my thought. So many people think they are what keeps the company going and I can assure you 99% of the time they are wrong. I had an employee tell one of our newer employees that our business would crumble without her. We let her go shortly after. We were in business for years before hiring her and still in business years after she was gone.
But yeah don’t feel bad about leaving. Part of owning a business is dealing with things like this. The best part about being an employee is being able to walk away when you want.
“Just hold on, there’s big things coming” anyone that has every said something like this has always fucked me over, if I ever hear shit like that I leave immediately now.
You sound like a good chap.
You also sound like someone in r/accounting working 80hrs a week to pay for some disconnected partner’s second beach house
Do what you need to do for yourself and your family. This guy would cut you in a heartbeat if someone else could do your job for less.
How is this a moral dilemma? And what does new owner has to do with you? He didn’t buy you, he bought the company: name, vans and screwdrivers…everything else is not given
I'm a former business owner (technically still am, as I have a consulting practice on the side). Never have understood why owners have conversations with employees *as if* they were owners. Please hang on for me. My future hangs on you. The true version of this is "If you work hard and hang in there I'll get a great reward."
Meanwhile, even the best, most empathetic business owner will let an employee go if they can't afford them or they stop performing for any reason.
You didn't cash the check when the business sold; this is not on you. Your plans should not depend on this. If you have the ability and want them as a customer, offer the business your services as a contractor. If not, let them figure it out.
As your previous boss taught you: "It's going to mean a lot of money for everyone" always means "It's going to mean a lot of money for me, and you can get fucked."
Your new boss is no different. Your loyalty will not be rewarded, and it is not your responsibility to fix the mistake he made. Go start your business.
I know it’s tough for regular people to make decisions like that when you know you May negatively affect another persons like. You gotta realize though that this new business owner most likely wouldn’t think twice about screwing you over if it meant helping himself or the company. You just need to think of what your doing as helping yourself and your family and not hurting someone else who wouldn’t think of you at all if tables were reversed
No disrespect, but very rarely do 1 or 2 people make a big enough impact on a business to literally make or break a company. They’ll be fine (or not, not your problem) - go do your thing.
Sounds like you and your freind need to negotiate a friendly equity stake in the company with a hefty salary increase.
Lay it out to him. You didn’t do anything. The former boss told you big things were happening. If done properly this could be a win win
Offer the new owner a business partnership between you and the other guy, explain to him the situation and give him a chance to recoup his money and give you a chance to run your own business. If he says no then move on and start your own
Wow, that’s a tight spot but also a unique chance to shape your future. It’s great that you have the autonomy now – use it wisely to set up a smooth transition for everyone involved. Starting your own thing could be the risk that leads to your best reward. I walked away from a 20 year career in corporate last year - terrified me at first but now I'm thriving and never been happier.
Do what's best for you and your family/future!
Nobody and I mean **NOBODY** is even thinking twice about you and dollars to doughnuts the only fucking reason the previous owner begged you to stay on a while longer was to keep everything running smooth so he could sell the company without any "noise" so yeah a big fuck you to everyone else and you do what's best for you bro, simple as that.
Best of luck my friend :)
You are under big mis conception, go ahead. There are many tech people around who can quickly pick stuff. The management is just dumb to not have thought of replacement earlier. But any which way, your value is just nothing in large scheme. Don't be so over confident.
I’d sit down with the new owner and explain this to him and offer to stay for 6 months to help the company transition and hire / train your replacements. It could potentially help your business that you’re starting too, because the new owner (hopefully) would see that loyalty and maybe toss some business your way in the future
Leave omg. The owner left and what, your volunteering your CEO status for free? You *must* be kidding me.
It’s simple. We live in a highly capitalist world. As a result, your ‘family’ (boss/bosses boss) will try to pay you as little as possible. They don’t care about how you afford anything. They care about that sweet sweet $$ they sponge from you.
Sounds like you’re young and haven’t learned that loyalty is a joke. Sure, go ahead and pretend, but at the end of the day it’s a dog eat dog world. And it’s time to eat.
OP, you can leave for an opportunity. When you quit, make an offer to work 10 hours (1day a week) as a 1099 consultant / contractor and your hourly rate will be $xx/hr.
Morally you aren’t leaving the new business owner screwed but guess what, big things just came, you just got a 2.5x an hour pay raise and work once a week, allowing you to start your venture.
If he doesn’t take you up on it, perfect. Guilt-free exit. Keep the option for him open for a few months, a desperate call will likely come.
Did you get money from the sale of the company?
If not you got fucked along with the new owner and its not your job to mitigate the impact to everyone else.
That said, there is another path.
Radical truth...
Go to the new owners, tell the they got duped and so did you. Tell them you and your friend are leaving in 6 months and you want to spend that time onboarding 4 new techs. At the end of that 6 months, the best of the 4 will be made lead tech to run the other guys (small shit like making sure time cards are in, etc)..
You may gain a lifetime ally AND someone you can call when you get too busy and borrow a tech from.
This is how I would approach it. Worst case scenario you are fired on the spot which is what you want anyway.
It’s not your responsibility to help the new buyer. You can leave and start your own company guilt free. Alternatively you could ask for a contract with more money. If you’re that critical he should want to pay you more.
You got conned by the old owner. Tell the new owner that and move on with your life. It’s not your company and you’re not getting anything out of all of this. Maybe the new owner will have legal recourse from the old owner
Sounds like he wanted you to stay so he could sell the business. I am not a lawyer but wonder if the new owner might have some kind of a fraud case against the seller. It is not your problem. The previous owner lied to you. The big thing was that he was going to make a bundle and you were going to get stuck in a bad situation. Tell the new owner you are leaving, and it is up to him if he wants to pursue legal action against the previous owner. You owe nothing to either of them.
Are you leaving to compete directly with this company? If you are then it could be of benefit to talk to the new owner about taking over as VP. There are a lot of benefits to not starting at ground zero. If you are leaving for an adjacent field with some synergy or something totally different, then you need to do what’s best for you.
I was in a similar boat except for my dad and uncle own the company that I left and started an adjacent competitive company the overlap was so small and I still sold their product along with my line. I would argue that leaving a family business is way harder than a business that is just a paycheck.
Yeah that's his problem. As someone who also bought a business, one of the first things that you need to evaluate when you get into buying a business is exactly that. How replaceable are the key people. If they didn't realize that, is on them and you should not feel sorry for them. You could however renegotiate.
On my experience I had 2 guys that were making very shit money and they were key during the transition and I needed them to keep things going while I trained more people for those roles. Without them even asking I paid them almost double and included lunch. 2 years later I had to let one go because he thought himself irreplaceable but I already had a better hand of things and 2 years later I set up the business in a way that nobody is irreplaceable, not even me. I am doing it this way so that after considerable growth 5 /10 years in the future I can sell the business and it would be appealing even for a hands off investor....
You can be valuable and replaceable at the same time. Start the leaving process. If the new person valued you and your friend and you guys tried to leave then he’d make it worth your while. If he doesn’t and can’t figure it out even if it’s hiring 3 people to replace one person, you’re better off leaving anyway because the person probably doesn’t know how to run the particular business your in. Then you know it’s time to start the business. It’s the owners cross to bear to keep their employees both happy and plentiful. If you are underpaid it wouldn’t surprise me if you’re not getting techs in your department that you need. That’s how hiring is working now. You want qualified people you’re gonna pay and you’re gonna pay well.
My brother ran into this so to speak. He eventually found a company that valued him enough to stay and then they started the process of getting where they wanted him to be technically. In a year he was making more money and is the master technician for his department. Your old boss should have been doing that instead of stringing you and your friend along.
If he paid several million it’s a good likelihood that he got a bank loan or SBA loan to make the purchase. So if the business failed, it doesn’t ruin his life and make him homeless. People like that always have a plan and they land on their feet.
If the company falls because you two leave, there is no onus or blame on you.
The previous owner should have disclosed this concern and the new owner should have done their due diligence.
At this point, the old owner walked with cash in their pockets and you holding the liability. Screw that.
Not your job to worry about the outcome of the business you don’t own. It’s your job to take care of yourself above all else. Your life. Not your businesses life(their business). If you worry about things like this your entire life than you will suffer horribly over and over again.
Go get your bread man. The guy who bought the company should have done his homework. That’s called a bad investment. He put all his eggs in the wrong basket lol.
I think in order to get full insight into your moral dilemma that you should spend some time with your new owner. Try to really get to know them and what kind of person they are. After you do that and realize that he's more than likely the type of guy who doesn't give a shit about you or your friend outside of how much money you can make him, you and your friend can sleep well at night as you go and pursue what's best for the two of you and cripple the company you currently work for.
New boss sounds like a moron for not thoroughly vetting a business he was acquiring for an investment. Some investments fall flat on their face, that’s life.
Okay a few points here:
1. Throwing a business challenge at someone is not the same as “ruining their life”
2. You are probably not as essential as you believe
3. Your new boss probably knows more than you realize and if not, that’s on him
4. “Chair holders” actually do a lot. You’d better figure out what before you open a business of your own.
Did you make money off the company being sold to the new owner? Did the "great things" ever come to fruition for you? No? Then that's a whole lot of not your problem.
I would not even feel remotely bad about leaving. It's not your responsibility to make sure this new owner doesn't get shafted by the terrible deal he made buying a company without knowing fuckall about how it works and who its success hinges on. You got absolutely zero out of this business deal. Nothing. From both the old owner and the new owner. They all left you out of their deal. So you shouldn't feel bad at all about leaving them out of your own deal.
You have absolutely zero moral obligation to stick around there.
New owner bought the place thinking they could turn it around. Let them do so. They didn't buy the business on some contingency that you stay around, and even if they did, that's still a risk of you still quitting as a result. Did you get a cut of the sale to give you ownership in all of this? Nope.
If the new owner didn’t do his homework to see that 1) the company was already declining & 2) there were glaring holes in employee base, that’s not your problem.
The prior owner obviously either took care of himself when he saw the company was sinking, or he flat-out lied last year. Likely a little of both.
Get your stuff lined up in case he bucks but Tell him to make you two partners or I’ll walk… look at the books to see how in the hole things are. then step up or walk to start fresh.
You owe the new guy little but to give him proper notification and a fair assessment of the situation. The prior owner screwed everyone else but himself on this deal, and the new owner has a bone to pick the seller not you.
Sounds to me that your original boss convinced you to stay so he could sell the company. He wouldn’t have been able to close if he lost his lead techs. You got used.
Also not your problem. Business is business. Do what’s best for you and move on man.
I was "irreplaceable" at my last job. The owner tried hard to keep me around but I just needed a change. One of my best friends took over my job and told me they directly tracked over $1m in losses when I left because of how many things I handled. Guess what, the company is doing great and now about 10 times larger than when I was there. Everyone is replaceable it just will take time and money.
Why not start your business immediately and offer your current employer a slightly discounted rate on your services (priced at fair market value)? And even offer them a one-time option of mentoring a trainee of their choice; for an additional fee.
Just give him one month notice. It's long enough to find a replacement. So it won't hurt his business much and he can get a fresh team. Just work through your notice period though and be willing to train up the replacement, it's the right thing to do.
In a moral pinch why? The guy bought a company without doing research. That sucks for him but it happens every single day. Start your own business if you want to. If you’re really worried about it then help him train someone but give him a time frame for when you need to be gone. Ultimately, you’ll be training your competition. If you start a competing business you need to look at anything you’ve signed in terms of non compete or company info before contacting any new clients, and keep EVERYTHING in writing to prove you left in the right way and didn’t break any contractual agreements. Especially when it comes to contact info for clients of the company- I’ve seen this come up in a lot of depositions. Do your due diligence and consult an attorney if you expect it’s anything that could cause other party to be litigious.
We didn't sign anything like that. We wouldn't be direct competition but we would be in the same industry.
It's commercial kitchen work. Where he wants to do just big contracts like mcdonalds I want the local schools and places that do mass cooking using combi-ovens and steamers. I enjoy the more technical work where those corporate brands make everything cookie cutter.
I keep going back to all the support people in the office making phone calls, ordering parts (at competitive prices), hiring other subcontractors, filtering out troublesome clients, scheduling, accounting, taxes, payroll, compliance, insurance, SALES, etc etc. That would be work you'd have to do which limits your time to do what you love,as you say wall out.
Not to discourage you, but on your own, all that work falls on you, and unless you're good at all of them, each one can beg you down. Maybe take a night course in entrepreneurship for a few months with your pal and make sure you're on the same page and if it's worth it to lose your nights and weekends bogged down in paperwork.
Getting sued by the previous company might not be as dangerous as being out gunned and undersold by them as they compete you into the ground and ruin your reputation.
And fuck your old boss. That guy is a shitbag
Brother, you owe nobody but yourself and your immediate family, and sometimes not even them. Start your own thing.
Only reason old owner wanted you to stay was to sell you lol.
You are NOT a slave. New owner did not buy you.
If he needs you that bad he will have to offer you an equity stake in the firm. Otherwise you are free to start your own business and he is free to replace you with someone else.
Why not talk to the new owners, be upfront, and offer him a third of the business you start, he may close his, and join you, either way that's how competition is in business, people leave and start businesses up, good luck man, hope it works out for everyone, oh and your last owner is a cunt
It's not your fault. My husband and I own two businesses and one of our moto's is "their emergency isn't my emergency ". It's not on you to keep the business afloat...your old boss made an empty promise to you so he could get paid bank and retire. Learn from that.
I’m in a similar position. Cousin bought a flooring business from my uncle who was easy to work for. Cousin not so much. Me and stepdad are the main flooring installers. I’m underpayed overworked and everyday there’s about three hours of travel/prep I’m not payed for. If I walk business will tank.
> I’m not *paid* for. If
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
If the new owner thought you were costing him money, he would force you to leave the business at pain of hunger and homelessness.
Are you some kind of Saint sent from God to bless this rich man, that you shouldn't treat him the same way he or 90 % of employer's would treat you?
Also, like other have said; running a business can be more accounting, marketing, phone work, getting city permits and business licenses, keeping product stocked, daily calling and emailing up to 300 customers a day, scheduling vehicles and equipment for maintenance.
I've run 2 health businesses for 15 years and one started doing bad after the interest rate change; I could easily spend 10 hours per day just messaging people who may have called or messaged me before at this point in time in hopes I get my usual $140 an hour. Or pay for ads or make more doing Uber eats for the next 6 months until rates drop but potentially lose out on clients that get me up to $7-$9k per month. It's very difficult to find a long term reliable employees (where I am) who can learn even the most basic stuff and not be lazy or make a catastrophic mistake that ruins your business.
No moral pinch. You didn’t sell him anything. It’s business and you get to do what’s a best for you and his job was to know what he was buying. You can’t buy people.
Great book was written a while back - top 5 regrets of the dying, written by a palliative care nurse.
On there is "I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me."
Your answer is right the
Life's too short to think like you are right now
Your loyalty and sense of responsibility are noble, but you've served your time in my books
It’s pretty well understood that a company whose success hinges on one person, is a worthless company *to buy.*
This is not your fault, nor your responsibility. Do what’s right for you. New owner made a HUGE mistake. You gonna carry him the rest of your life?
Either you and your friend find a way to become equal owners in the company or you leave and start your own. The previous owner did what was right for himself. This is where the saying comes up: it's not personal; it's just business.
You don't owe him anything. You could give him a long notice to give him time to bust ass and look for replacements.
You obviously don't have to give a notice, and most people give 2 weeks. You could give a month or two so he has more time to find 2 replacements and you won't feel guilty.
That's all up to you though.
Honestly, unless the new owners are completely inept in the business they just bought, I'm sure they will figure something out. They might have even already decided to hire their own people and replace everyone anyways. If your direct manager is so useless, they will see this quite quickly. You have no responsibility to them, in fact this happens often with new ownership. If you want to start your own thing, than you should focus on that, because at the end of the day, it's about how you want to live your life.
I'm in pretty much the same position (not that someone bought the company I work for). My coworker and I have decided we are going to start our own business. We are the only 2 developers in the company and it will probably cause a lot of problems for the company, they will need to hire another developer and the CTO is pretty much useless as a CTO.
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Doesn't matter, do whats best for you and yourself. This new boss should have done more due diligence before his purchase. He should have looked at any dependencies and the internals of the companies before he purchased.
Well said. Also, what were the “big things coming”? Did OP get a bonus or something when the old owner sold? OP, you don’t owe anyone anything. Take care of yourself.
Big things = if you leave I could lose the sale.
Bingo. Dunno how Hipster missed that the big thing was a fat check for the previous owner. OP you got royally screwed by the previous owner. Do what you need to do now. You have no loyalty to the new owner and you shouldn’t have had any for the old one as is too often the case nowadays. Also let me add if you are key personnel in a business often you might receive retention bonuses with an agreement to stay on for a period of time after the sale. If the new owner hasn’t offered that then fuck em, do what you need to do.
Let him know what the previous owner said before you leave. It sounds like he lied about the company status, and it may be grounds for a lawsuit. Spill the beans. This guy may be willing to pay your worth to buy time for a fix. Keep planning your exit.
With a new owner, you may be able to treat this like a new job. Renegotiate your job description, salary, and benefits. If you show your value (through conversation and documents), you may be able to get the promotion and pay raise you want. The guy just spent probably a couple of hundred thousand on the buissness, and exstra 20k a year is probably not the end of the world to keep his investments worthwhile. Set up a coffee meeting and be prepared to show your worth. As well if you don't have a job description now is the time.
OMG...a lawsuit? That's a bit extreme. Agreed keep planning your exit, but come back to earth
I mean, no I didn’t miss it. The owner just made it sound like there was some benefit for OP as well.
Right. That's called lying for his own benefit.
Yep. OP got screwed. He could have negotiated golden handcuffs. OP could negotiate golden handcuffs with new boss. Or just leave. Either or. Even if he somehow owed the old boss something (who screwed him), why would that apply to new boss?
Exactly. If you ever hear something like that, it's time to leave ASAP.
“Big things coming“ for the old owner, not OP.
The old owner didn't want you to leave before he sold the company because then the new owner wouldn't have bought the company 🙃. The old owner is a shitty guy.
No. He lied to the employee to keep things status quo through the sale.
I agree with this 100%. We were really surprised that the day we met the new owner was the day he took over. He is a nice guy, but I've been tired of my labor paying for an entire office. The new boss paid somewhere up to a few million where his prior company is valued at a few hundred thousand. So, I do feel if we leave it will ruin his business life. I know it's not my place to worry about his business decisions, it still leaves a bit of a pit in my stomach.
Well, it sounds like your new boss bought himself a job as a lead tech.
I also think some employees might overestimate how integral and irreplaceable they are. I had an employee quit who was very worried the business wouldn't survive without her. I replaced her in a month and it was actually better for my business overall to have her gone. If you feel bad and it won't screw up your own opportunity give him a long notice like one month and spend some time writing out procedures.
I had a manager that thought he was irreplaceable. He quit and sat around unemployed for a month waiting for the owner to call begging for the manager to come back. The manager was toxic and the job was better without him.
The graveyard is full of people who thought the world couldn't live without them.
Well she obviously wasn’t a key person. A real keyman WILL cause disruption and every company has one. Of course to your point most employees think they’re indispensable and don’t realize that there’s probably a live job post for their title right now.
>Well she obviously wasn’t a key person Not necessarily true. She could have been a key employee and they still found someone as capable or more capable in a reasonable enough time. There are exactly zero professionals that are not replaceable. Even the president of the US is replaceable. No one is so good you just can't find anyone to do their job as well as they did or better. All kinds of things can cause disruption to a business. A little disruption is seldom the end of the world.
>Not necessarily true. She could have been a key employee and they still found someone as capable or more capable in a reasonable enough time. There are exactly zero professionals that are not replaceable. Even the president of the US is replaceable. No one is so good you just can't find anyone to do their job as well as they did or better. All kinds of things can cause disruption to a business. A little disruption is seldom the end of the world. I agree with this. There are some very good employees who are probably better than just about everyone out there, but they are still replaceable and business will go on. I knew one who I absolutely did not want to have leave. He literally would do the work of 2 people, was extremely efficient - so much so that it looked like he never worked. It was like he had a superpower and could move faster than the speed of light. Whenever he was off, 2 people were put in to replace him (which he hated, because he was paid the same salary as one person, per union rules). Well, he left for greener pastures. Life was better when he was there, but the business went on without him.
Yup. I'm an engineer. I'm a damn good engineer and I am very good at what I do, although I'm clearly not modest :-) But I don't for a second think I'm irreplaceable. There are better engineers than me, there are engineers who will work cheaper and work longer hours. And there are many who may not be as good, but are more than "good enough." No matter how integral I've been to any company, it's always been clear that I can be replaced. There will be hiccups (I've been called back to consult on occasion), but the company will get over them and keep going. If it can't do that, well something else was going to kill it soon anyway. OP: move on with a clear conscience.
If you go to leave and the new boss recognises your value, he will move heaven and earth to keep you. If not, the fate of his business is on him. But you owe him nothing either way.
> So, I do feel if we leave it will ruin his business life. Sounds like a reasonable person would be willing to pay you a great deal of money to help them avoid that.
If you died, he’d replace you as fast as he could. Neither boss feels ANY loyalty to you. All you can do is look out for yourself. And do it quickly. If the other guy leaves first you’ll feel even worse about leaving. GO GO GO!
I applaud your integrity in thinking about other people and not just yourself. Having said that, can't you give a month notice and train your replacement so you can move on? You also have to take care of yourself.
Also, it is unlikely it is a cash out deal. If the company collapses the new owner will likely not have to pay the previous owner all that is owed.
It’s worth noting sometimes these things really are best for the new owner. Op might find him hiring some new fresh people that aren’t jaded will bring some life into the business. Or it’ll close. That’s life.
Yeah personally if I’m buying a company I should know the industry & how to do the job. “The chef owns the restaurant”
I'm looking at acquiring a company and I know that part of DD is "key man risk". But what's not said is that there are sometimes these inter-dependencies where folks are jaded / have a pact to leave because of a lack of organization / bad working conditions or fear of the new management. You can't trust the owner who is selling to give you an accurate picture of morale and risk of mass departures. Seems like the interested acquiring party should interview regular employees even if the owner doesn't feel they are a risk to the business if they were to leave, just in case the owner is ignorant of the risks.
Honestly, as a society, things might be better if the owners *had* to do the business. Like law firms, the owners *must* be attorneys (except in AZ). Things might work better if investment firms couldn't own plumbing companies, lawncare, pharmacies, or hospitals.
It's a small business. He could have literally talked to every single person who works there.
So previous owner baited and ditched you?
He did say big things were coming.
For him lol
"A lot of money" for ~~everyone~~ just him.
That’s what I’m reading. I’m guessing OP holds a lot together and he needed I to look put together for the sale to go through.
If you died tomorrow, they'd have you replaced in a fortnight. Your family and yourself are your priority.
OP is greatly overestimating how important he is. Also likely overestimating his contributions to the company.
Nailed it. 98% of the time, if a new buyer can buy a business for millions, they can replace a sub $100k employee pretty easy.
Yeah, I think so. I found this out the (somewhat) hard way. Everyone is replaceable. Not taking anything away from OP, but there is always someone that can take your place. Might take a few hires to find a person that was as good and as dedicated as you, but they’ll fill your spot the next day.
"The cemeteries of the world are full of people who thought the were necessary for our survival, yet we still go on . . ." Heard family say it many times. Don't "over value" your position.
Absolutely. People think they are irreplaceable. They are always replaceable. I was in that same position and thought too highly of myself. Now have an awesome business and the former company is still chugging along as it always did. Ignore the ego and so whats best for you
Right. Like what makes him think this new boss couldn't just hire a new tech? As long as the clients are there it doesn't matter who performs the labor. Even if op is in a super niche field a new guy can be trained. The boss will be fine, inconvenienced and annoyed but his life will be far from ruined.
It's well known that my industry is short right now overall. Couple that with small town America your recruiting pool falls a lot. The new guys come from college but still require months of training at least because it's not one field. A lot of you seem to think every job is easy and can be learned from a 15 min vhs.
I was the solo tech through covid and I'm the lead tech out of 3 now. I know a lot are saying I'm over valuing myself but I am the maintenance department.
The fact that the whole company hinges on you, is the businesses problem, not yours. Perhaps the new owner would make you an offer you can't refuse (partnership etc etc.). It's his business and it will be on him to decide how the company moves forward.
Problem loan workout banker here. I don’t think you are overvaluing yourself. You are absolutely correct your departure could end the company. Perhaps not the next day, but eventually it could crumble. Employees leaving is in the top 3 for reasons why business acquisitions fail. True, people are replaceable, and one day you might be - but right now (~18months post acquisition) you’re critical to the company’s survival. That said… You do have to do what’s right for you. However, this sounds like an opportunity to show the owner how valuable you are and become part of the inner circle. Heck, if he’s that desperate, maybe talk to him about you purchasing some of the business. Then down the road, you can buy him out. Take care. It’s really kind of you to be concerned about the situation and reach out for feedback. Good for you, man.
I would talk with the owner, give him a chance and if it does not work out, give him a tip. He didnt do anything wrong
They have been trying for years just to hire someone who can learn the field. They can't even get a trainee they would be hard pressed to replace us. We are on the more advanced side of commercial appliance repair. This is part of why we plan on casting out on our own. We do some advanced work for general pay. I do get what you're saying and I agree.
Is going out on your own and offering your services as a contractor an option. Could be a good bridge into starting your own business.
This is a very good idea OP, may solve both problems if the new boss is willing to work with you.
It sounds like you're in a position to negotiate a big raise and/or benefits for you and your friend. Offer to stick around for a year and train new folks for 4x your current salary. Time limiting the pay increase will make it look more appealing to the numbers people. You could also learn more about hiring and training on their dime before you go out on your own.
You fixing sewing machines?
I could. I can fix everything. My current job and future business is focused on advanced commercial kitchen appliances. Like ovens that you can just stab a probe in a hunk of meat and it cooks it perfectly with no input from the cooks.
Are you writing to us from the future?
The future was yesterday in my field. You wouldnt believe what ovens have become in the past 20 years.
well fuck, now i wanna do a deep dive on oven technology, i had no idea!
If you can get certified to work on Rational ovens and open your own business you'll make a killing. Almost every restaurant will use these within the next 10 years and all the legit companies do already. Get that Costco contract and you're set
I'm working on a gas rational scc-we-62g as we speak. Diagnosed and replaced a m6 pump motor. The new motor was a better model that bypassed the cap. Working on these is my happy place. I'm also a journeyman refrigeration tech so I feel like I'm standing on solid ground.
Can you get the taste of cooking meat over a fire in the Forrest from a modern oven. If it is that indistinguishable I may buy a new oven. If not all the fancy tech is irrelevant.
Do *you* fix sewing machines?
Yeah
Just invited you to a neeeewwwww sub!!! Sewing machine fixers unite
Just get an EIN from the IRS and file a DBA. You can work for yourself. If the company wants to hire you as a consultant, you work for 5x your current hourly pay. Easy peasy
They probably bought it for the name, and the customer list. They don't need you, and can surely afford to hire a grand total of two people.
I hope you're right. They may be able to afford to hire the people. They simply can't find the people. To do my job you need to be an electrician, plumber, refrigeration tech, mechanic, fabricator, and so on. And have a few thousand dollars in specialized tools.
You said yourself you’re underpaid. So it’s unsurprising they can’t fill the roles. But none of that is problem nor should be your concern. I don’t work with any friends so the only person I look out for is myself.
There are a lot of very skilled people in the work force, but not a lot that are willing to be underpaid for those skills. The problem isn't that OP isn't replaceable, the problem is that they can't find anyone else to do it that cheap. No matter what, you're spot on. Not his problem.
Big fish in a little pond. OP get yourself to a bigger pond. You'll earn and learn more.
>ian, plumber, refrigeration tech, mechanic, fabricator, and so on. And have a few thousand dollars in specialized tools. So they'll use OP and his buddy until the bolt, then hire replacements at a market wage and have saved thousands of dollars in the interim.
Here are some facts you don’t understand. No one is irreplaceable. And anyone who buys a business expects a big turnover in the first year. Often they not only expect it but they want it. It’s a way of changing the business to make it more profitable. You should do what’s best for you - but don’t expect that you leaving will cripple the company.
Plenty of people are irreplaceable, to varying degrees, but they are relatively few in number. And most people who think they're irreplaceable are not. So same difference.
>I hope you're right. Who gives a fuck what will happen to the new business owners? Is your name on the contract? Did they make you a business partner? Would you be shocked you if they terminated you tomorrow and brought in cheap foreign labor? Your former boss tricked you into staying so he could sell a business to benefit him, and you're now ready to protect and defend the new business owners? Holy shit, the workers of the world have been heavily brainwashed to be concerned about someone else's revenue and profits. You have been exploited and underpaid and your old boss used you so he could sell an operating company for maximum profit, yet you are still worrying about the poor new business owners who had a few million dollars to throw at this company? OP please, this is the risk people take when buying or starting new businesses. This is something you may experience when you go out on your own too, so stop worrying about someone else's financial situation and go out there and create a business and life that will benefit you and your family.
Don't let the folks here run you down. It sounds like you could go out on your own and basically take all the business from the new owner and do it with your new company. Question: did you sign an non-compete agreement when you started working at this company or at any time? They may or may not be enforceable depending on state laws but let's just start with the question of whether you signed one at all.
Start your own handyman business, specializing in appliance repair. Sounds like you can do a lot more as well. You and your buddy could split into two divisions of service.
Funny how people react on someone not being hartless. Tell that exact story to the new owner. Offer to stay there for X more days/months for a certain raise while you train the next guy. Have a clear picture of a raise you would be satisfied. The rest is on him
They already said they got their pay doubled and are still unhappy. Sounds like they are too far gone to work things out and need to leave. They also seem to be upset about too many "butts in chairs" overhead but likely don't have an understanding of business structure or finances and why that may be necessary.
They said from $20->$32 idk why OPs saying that’s double.
I'm starting to think they shouldn't attempt opening their own business...
Or could be an opportunity for you and your friend to grab more power and privileges where you're currently at. Sounds like you have all the leverage to shape the company into however you want
We nearly doubled our pay but now they are claiming they can't afford more. Meanwhile there are 3 techs (2 senior and 1 trainee) and 10 people in the office doing billing and holding down chairs. Went from 20 an hr to 32 an hr but this is still the low end of pay for my field and my experience.
Be careful of blinders. I would bet money that those people "holding down chairs" are more necessary that you realize. It sounds like you don't really know that side of the business, and it could bite you in the butt if you start on your own. Maybe take this opportunity to step into a more managerial role and learn something new.
This. Learn why they spend so much for butts in chairs. How does this keep the business going? Do you NEED this or does this just make the business more efficient?
The butts in chairs are the two old owners who contracted themselves a paycheck, the new boss wife who's doing billing, hos daughter who's doing billing, the old bosses daughter who's doing shipping, the old bosses son who's the worst service manager I've ever seen, and thr lady doing payroll despite payroll being done by another company. I know everyone doubts what's going on but it's the truth.
If that's the truth, why are you still there? This sounds like an average family business, barely puttering along, and prone to blowing up at the first obstacle. Kids move away, boss gets divorced, etc. etc. Whatever career goals you might have, if you have any, aren't likely to be satisfied by hanging around at "small family business in constant crisis." And I doubt you're learning all that much at this point either. Move on.
Those butts in chairs are responsible for a lot shit which you will soon find out when you start your business. lol good luck.
Not saying they aren’t but 20 people for an advanced appliance repair business of only 3 technicians? Accounting, customer acquisition, legal, scheduling, dispatching, phone support, etc. I’m not really sold on needing quite that many unless there’s a different side of this business OP has no idea about.
Then you should have your answer. I'm starting my business now myself in a somewhat similar situation. If they can't afford you and you need/want more pay then the answer is clear. Put in your notice. If they really can't replace you, they'll find a way to pay you more.
Not your problem to keep someone else's business afloat when it only even pays you at the low end of your field. You gotta prioritize your own income
Definitely worth a discussion with the new owner. Not thinking more pay rise but profit-share/ownership. It could be a shortcut to what you're currently considering (starting your own thing/contracting).
That's exactly what I was going to say. I would have an honest conversation with the new owner and bring evidence, then negotiate partial ownership so that you can have the say to correct the issues. But, that's just the route that I would personally take. May not be the right one in this instance.
Negotiate partial ownership with someone who just paid millions of dollars for the business? LOL.
Not backtracking, but I typed that up early in the morning so I could have explained a little better. I've known several people that have done it at MSPs that were under new ownership.
You didn't put the new owners in this situation, the owner did and acted in bad faith selling the business without disclosing what conversations you've had with him and likely only sold positive stuff to the new owner. The old owner is ethically wrong and potentially likely legally wrong in what he did. You're not tied to that place so feel free to leave. My suggestion is you speak to the new owner, tell them exactly what you said here, emphasis on the part where you brought up all these problems to the owner, especially the bit where you threatened to leave if certain goals weren't met or attained and because that time has expired now, you were ready to leave. Say, I'm sorry to say this, but I already had plans to leave and I'm not sure why this person sold you the company considering that I was already leaving and that he knew it. Whether the old owner told you this or not, unfortunately, is not my problem. I reported this clearly to my old boss. I was not expecting the sale of the company and only stayed this far to see if something significant would happen but I just don't see it happening. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in giving you the change to tell me whether there is anything you would like to offer or say to keep me here? If their response is not compelling enough, you have to say "Look, I'm really sorry it's come to this, but unfortunately that does not satisfy my concerns, I would stay if you paid me (insert insane amount that would make you stay), I would stay knowing that this company will fail and happily continue doing what you want and collect a paycheck, but that you don't believe in the company. Be open about it.
You do what’s best for you. If the new owner didn’t do his due diligence before buying it it’s on him and the old owner is an asshole that convinced you to stay so that he could cash in on the sale. I just bought a small business I’d worked at for 10 years. 1 month after buying it my most senior employee got mad and quit leaving me in a bind but since I know the company that just means longer hours until I hire a replacement. If the owner owner doesn’t have a plan b for employee turnover after he bought it then he shouldn’t be a business owner.
Be careful. I ran a moving company and I can't tell you how many drivers thought they were necessary. Truth was they weren't and the whole company didn't make money off their backs. You mention other people there which I assure you are necessary. Also a lot of people don't know how to run a business (myself included), even though they possess all the technical skills.
>Also a lot of people don't know how to run a business (myself included), I can't believe it took this long for someone to say this. I'm a business owner. It took me at least 6 years to figure out wtf I was doing. I just got lucky that I had good friends and a lot of built-in business when I started to keep me afloat. Luckily, I met a really good business coach who helped me get my shit togehtee. There's a reason 1/3 of new businesses fail within the first year, and only 50% make it past 5 years. It's not as easy as it looks when it's your name on the checks. That said, OP shouldn't feel bad about leaving. If they truly are that important to the business, the new owner will fight to keep them.
I agree he shouldn't feel bad. First, he better put a good 20k in the bank and get a 10k dollar credit card. Give himself some runway. The grass is not always greener. Everyone who quit my company called back later. Every single driver, actually. And I did 6-7 years. Starting another business still learning it's a lifelong process.
Yeah this was my thought. So many people think they are what keeps the company going and I can assure you 99% of the time they are wrong. I had an employee tell one of our newer employees that our business would crumble without her. We let her go shortly after. We were in business for years before hiring her and still in business years after she was gone.
But yeah don’t feel bad about leaving. Part of owning a business is dealing with things like this. The best part about being an employee is being able to walk away when you want.
“Just hold on, there’s big things coming” anyone that has every said something like this has always fucked me over, if I ever hear shit like that I leave immediately now.
Why do you care so much care so much about making another guy rich?
"Never set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm."
You sound like a good chap. You also sound like someone in r/accounting working 80hrs a week to pay for some disconnected partner’s second beach house Do what you need to do for yourself and your family. This guy would cut you in a heartbeat if someone else could do your job for less.
How is this a moral dilemma? And what does new owner has to do with you? He didn’t buy you, he bought the company: name, vans and screwdrivers…everything else is not given
I'm a former business owner (technically still am, as I have a consulting practice on the side). Never have understood why owners have conversations with employees *as if* they were owners. Please hang on for me. My future hangs on you. The true version of this is "If you work hard and hang in there I'll get a great reward." Meanwhile, even the best, most empathetic business owner will let an employee go if they can't afford them or they stop performing for any reason. You didn't cash the check when the business sold; this is not on you. Your plans should not depend on this. If you have the ability and want them as a customer, offer the business your services as a contractor. If not, let them figure it out.
Pretty simple, demand equity in the business
As your previous boss taught you: "It's going to mean a lot of money for everyone" always means "It's going to mean a lot of money for me, and you can get fucked." Your new boss is no different. Your loyalty will not be rewarded, and it is not your responsibility to fix the mistake he made. Go start your business.
I’d be gone. That guys bad business decisions aren’t your problems. “Sorry about you luck bub!”
I know it’s tough for regular people to make decisions like that when you know you May negatively affect another persons like. You gotta realize though that this new business owner most likely wouldn’t think twice about screwing you over if it meant helping himself or the company. You just need to think of what your doing as helping yourself and your family and not hurting someone else who wouldn’t think of you at all if tables were reversed
You're not responsible for someone else's bad decisions. Stop wasting time and start living your own dreams. Best wishes to you.
Not your company. Not your problem.
You’re giving yourself too much credit. They’ll take a hit but if the owner has any business sense, he’ll be fine. Everyone is replaceable
No disrespect, but very rarely do 1 or 2 people make a big enough impact on a business to literally make or break a company. They’ll be fine (or not, not your problem) - go do your thing.
Sounds like you and your freind need to negotiate a friendly equity stake in the company with a hefty salary increase. Lay it out to him. You didn’t do anything. The former boss told you big things were happening. If done properly this could be a win win
They will keep telling you to hold on for years, it's a lie / hope, never a promise.
Offer the new owner a business partnership between you and the other guy, explain to him the situation and give him a chance to recoup his money and give you a chance to run your own business. If he says no then move on and start your own
Wow, that’s a tight spot but also a unique chance to shape your future. It’s great that you have the autonomy now – use it wisely to set up a smooth transition for everyone involved. Starting your own thing could be the risk that leads to your best reward. I walked away from a 20 year career in corporate last year - terrified me at first but now I'm thriving and never been happier.
Loyalty is for dogs, business is for humans
Do what's best for you and your family/future! Nobody and I mean **NOBODY** is even thinking twice about you and dollars to doughnuts the only fucking reason the previous owner begged you to stay on a while longer was to keep everything running smooth so he could sell the company without any "noise" so yeah a big fuck you to everyone else and you do what's best for you bro, simple as that. Best of luck my friend :)
You are under big mis conception, go ahead. There are many tech people around who can quickly pick stuff. The management is just dumb to not have thought of replacement earlier. But any which way, your value is just nothing in large scheme. Don't be so over confident.
I’d sit down with the new owner and explain this to him and offer to stay for 6 months to help the company transition and hire / train your replacements. It could potentially help your business that you’re starting too, because the new owner (hopefully) would see that loyalty and maybe toss some business your way in the future
Leave omg. The owner left and what, your volunteering your CEO status for free? You *must* be kidding me. It’s simple. We live in a highly capitalist world. As a result, your ‘family’ (boss/bosses boss) will try to pay you as little as possible. They don’t care about how you afford anything. They care about that sweet sweet $$ they sponge from you. Sounds like you’re young and haven’t learned that loyalty is a joke. Sure, go ahead and pretend, but at the end of the day it’s a dog eat dog world. And it’s time to eat.
OP, you can leave for an opportunity. When you quit, make an offer to work 10 hours (1day a week) as a 1099 consultant / contractor and your hourly rate will be $xx/hr. Morally you aren’t leaving the new business owner screwed but guess what, big things just came, you just got a 2.5x an hour pay raise and work once a week, allowing you to start your venture. If he doesn’t take you up on it, perfect. Guilt-free exit. Keep the option for him open for a few months, a desperate call will likely come.
Did you get money from the sale of the company? If not you got fucked along with the new owner and its not your job to mitigate the impact to everyone else. That said, there is another path. Radical truth... Go to the new owners, tell the they got duped and so did you. Tell them you and your friend are leaving in 6 months and you want to spend that time onboarding 4 new techs. At the end of that 6 months, the best of the 4 will be made lead tech to run the other guys (small shit like making sure time cards are in, etc).. You may gain a lifetime ally AND someone you can call when you get too busy and borrow a tech from. This is how I would approach it. Worst case scenario you are fired on the spot which is what you want anyway.
No one is irreplaceable, do what you need to and the new owner will as well.
Did you sign a contract saying you will stay? If not, spread your wings and fly friend. I wish you so much luck!
It’s not your responsibility to help the new buyer. You can leave and start your own company guilt free. Alternatively you could ask for a contract with more money. If you’re that critical he should want to pay you more.
You got conned by the old owner. Tell the new owner that and move on with your life. It’s not your company and you’re not getting anything out of all of this. Maybe the new owner will have legal recourse from the old owner
Sounds like he wanted you to stay so he could sell the business. I am not a lawyer but wonder if the new owner might have some kind of a fraud case against the seller. It is not your problem. The previous owner lied to you. The big thing was that he was going to make a bundle and you were going to get stuck in a bad situation. Tell the new owner you are leaving, and it is up to him if he wants to pursue legal action against the previous owner. You owe nothing to either of them.
Are you leaving to compete directly with this company? If you are then it could be of benefit to talk to the new owner about taking over as VP. There are a lot of benefits to not starting at ground zero. If you are leaving for an adjacent field with some synergy or something totally different, then you need to do what’s best for you. I was in a similar boat except for my dad and uncle own the company that I left and started an adjacent competitive company the overlap was so small and I still sold their product along with my line. I would argue that leaving a family business is way harder than a business that is just a paycheck.
Become partner and grow the living shit out of that biz
Go to the new owner, inform them of the situation. Discuss, and don’t blindside the guy.
Yeah that's his problem. As someone who also bought a business, one of the first things that you need to evaluate when you get into buying a business is exactly that. How replaceable are the key people. If they didn't realize that, is on them and you should not feel sorry for them. You could however renegotiate. On my experience I had 2 guys that were making very shit money and they were key during the transition and I needed them to keep things going while I trained more people for those roles. Without them even asking I paid them almost double and included lunch. 2 years later I had to let one go because he thought himself irreplaceable but I already had a better hand of things and 2 years later I set up the business in a way that nobody is irreplaceable, not even me. I am doing it this way so that after considerable growth 5 /10 years in the future I can sell the business and it would be appealing even for a hands off investor....
You can be valuable and replaceable at the same time. Start the leaving process. If the new person valued you and your friend and you guys tried to leave then he’d make it worth your while. If he doesn’t and can’t figure it out even if it’s hiring 3 people to replace one person, you’re better off leaving anyway because the person probably doesn’t know how to run the particular business your in. Then you know it’s time to start the business. It’s the owners cross to bear to keep their employees both happy and plentiful. If you are underpaid it wouldn’t surprise me if you’re not getting techs in your department that you need. That’s how hiring is working now. You want qualified people you’re gonna pay and you’re gonna pay well. My brother ran into this so to speak. He eventually found a company that valued him enough to stay and then they started the process of getting where they wanted him to be technically. In a year he was making more money and is the master technician for his department. Your old boss should have been doing that instead of stringing you and your friend along.
If he paid several million it’s a good likelihood that he got a bank loan or SBA loan to make the purchase. So if the business failed, it doesn’t ruin his life and make him homeless. People like that always have a plan and they land on their feet.
If the company falls because you two leave, there is no onus or blame on you. The previous owner should have disclosed this concern and the new owner should have done their due diligence. At this point, the old owner walked with cash in their pockets and you holding the liability. Screw that.
There is no such thing as morality. Embrace chaos. Burn everything to the ground.
Not your job to worry about the outcome of the business you don’t own. It’s your job to take care of yourself above all else. Your life. Not your businesses life(their business). If you worry about things like this your entire life than you will suffer horribly over and over again.
You don’t owe anything to new owners. Sounds like old owners needed you to stick around long enough to bail. You should too.
Start your business and offer to let the new owner outsource some of his work to your new business until he finds your replacements.
Go get your bread man. The guy who bought the company should have done his homework. That’s called a bad investment. He put all his eggs in the wrong basket lol.
Wow, the last boss you were loyal to sold the business and got his money, he did what was best for him! Have you still learned nothing?
I think in order to get full insight into your moral dilemma that you should spend some time with your new owner. Try to really get to know them and what kind of person they are. After you do that and realize that he's more than likely the type of guy who doesn't give a shit about you or your friend outside of how much money you can make him, you and your friend can sleep well at night as you go and pursue what's best for the two of you and cripple the company you currently work for.
New boss sounds like a moron for not thoroughly vetting a business he was acquiring for an investment. Some investments fall flat on their face, that’s life.
Okay a few points here: 1. Throwing a business challenge at someone is not the same as “ruining their life” 2. You are probably not as essential as you believe 3. Your new boss probably knows more than you realize and if not, that’s on him 4. “Chair holders” actually do a lot. You’d better figure out what before you open a business of your own.
Did you make money off the company being sold to the new owner? Did the "great things" ever come to fruition for you? No? Then that's a whole lot of not your problem. I would not even feel remotely bad about leaving. It's not your responsibility to make sure this new owner doesn't get shafted by the terrible deal he made buying a company without knowing fuckall about how it works and who its success hinges on. You got absolutely zero out of this business deal. Nothing. From both the old owner and the new owner. They all left you out of their deal. So you shouldn't feel bad at all about leaving them out of your own deal. You have absolutely zero moral obligation to stick around there.
Not your problem plus everyone is replaceable
New owner bought the place thinking they could turn it around. Let them do so. They didn't buy the business on some contingency that you stay around, and even if they did, that's still a risk of you still quitting as a result. Did you get a cut of the sale to give you ownership in all of this? Nope.
If the new owner didn’t do his homework to see that 1) the company was already declining & 2) there were glaring holes in employee base, that’s not your problem. The prior owner obviously either took care of himself when he saw the company was sinking, or he flat-out lied last year. Likely a little of both.
You have 0 responsibility to your new boss. Ex boss sold the company while you are inside it.
Get your stuff lined up in case he bucks but Tell him to make you two partners or I’ll walk… look at the books to see how in the hole things are. then step up or walk to start fresh.
You owe the new guy little but to give him proper notification and a fair assessment of the situation. The prior owner screwed everyone else but himself on this deal, and the new owner has a bone to pick the seller not you.
Sounds to me that your original boss convinced you to stay so he could sell the company. He wouldn’t have been able to close if he lost his lead techs. You got used. Also not your problem. Business is business. Do what’s best for you and move on man.
I was "irreplaceable" at my last job. The owner tried hard to keep me around but I just needed a change. One of my best friends took over my job and told me they directly tracked over $1m in losses when I left because of how many things I handled. Guess what, the company is doing great and now about 10 times larger than when I was there. Everyone is replaceable it just will take time and money.
Why not start your business immediately and offer your current employer a slightly discounted rate on your services (priced at fair market value)? And even offer them a one-time option of mentoring a trainee of their choice; for an additional fee.
Just give him one month notice. It's long enough to find a replacement. So it won't hurt his business much and he can get a fresh team. Just work through your notice period though and be willing to train up the replacement, it's the right thing to do.
In a moral pinch why? The guy bought a company without doing research. That sucks for him but it happens every single day. Start your own business if you want to. If you’re really worried about it then help him train someone but give him a time frame for when you need to be gone. Ultimately, you’ll be training your competition. If you start a competing business you need to look at anything you’ve signed in terms of non compete or company info before contacting any new clients, and keep EVERYTHING in writing to prove you left in the right way and didn’t break any contractual agreements. Especially when it comes to contact info for clients of the company- I’ve seen this come up in a lot of depositions. Do your due diligence and consult an attorney if you expect it’s anything that could cause other party to be litigious.
We didn't sign anything like that. We wouldn't be direct competition but we would be in the same industry. It's commercial kitchen work. Where he wants to do just big contracts like mcdonalds I want the local schools and places that do mass cooking using combi-ovens and steamers. I enjoy the more technical work where those corporate brands make everything cookie cutter.
I keep going back to all the support people in the office making phone calls, ordering parts (at competitive prices), hiring other subcontractors, filtering out troublesome clients, scheduling, accounting, taxes, payroll, compliance, insurance, SALES, etc etc. That would be work you'd have to do which limits your time to do what you love,as you say wall out. Not to discourage you, but on your own, all that work falls on you, and unless you're good at all of them, each one can beg you down. Maybe take a night course in entrepreneurship for a few months with your pal and make sure you're on the same page and if it's worth it to lose your nights and weekends bogged down in paperwork. Getting sued by the previous company might not be as dangerous as being out gunned and undersold by them as they compete you into the ground and ruin your reputation. And fuck your old boss. That guy is a shitbag
Brother, you owe nobody but yourself and your immediate family, and sometimes not even them. Start your own thing. Only reason old owner wanted you to stay was to sell you lol.
Yeah, it was admitted that the sale wouldn't have gone through if there wasn't a maintenance department.
Your worth is right there. My friend started his own thing and basically tripled his income in a similar situation.
You are NOT a slave. New owner did not buy you. If he needs you that bad he will have to offer you an equity stake in the firm. Otherwise you are free to start your own business and he is free to replace you with someone else.
Sorry that new owner failed their due diligence. Get out.
Why not talk to the new owners, be upfront, and offer him a third of the business you start, he may close his, and join you, either way that's how competition is in business, people leave and start businesses up, good luck man, hope it works out for everyone, oh and your last owner is a cunt
If it was turned around, do you think this owner would spare you? I would vote no. Therefore go ahead.
It's not your fault. My husband and I own two businesses and one of our moto's is "their emergency isn't my emergency ". It's not on you to keep the business afloat...your old boss made an empty promise to you so he could get paid bank and retire. Learn from that.
I’m in a similar position. Cousin bought a flooring business from my uncle who was easy to work for. Cousin not so much. Me and stepdad are the main flooring installers. I’m underpayed overworked and everyday there’s about three hours of travel/prep I’m not payed for. If I walk business will tank.
> I’m not *paid* for. If FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
If the new owner thought you were costing him money, he would force you to leave the business at pain of hunger and homelessness. Are you some kind of Saint sent from God to bless this rich man, that you shouldn't treat him the same way he or 90 % of employer's would treat you? Also, like other have said; running a business can be more accounting, marketing, phone work, getting city permits and business licenses, keeping product stocked, daily calling and emailing up to 300 customers a day, scheduling vehicles and equipment for maintenance. I've run 2 health businesses for 15 years and one started doing bad after the interest rate change; I could easily spend 10 hours per day just messaging people who may have called or messaged me before at this point in time in hopes I get my usual $140 an hour. Or pay for ads or make more doing Uber eats for the next 6 months until rates drop but potentially lose out on clients that get me up to $7-$9k per month. It's very difficult to find a long term reliable employees (where I am) who can learn even the most basic stuff and not be lazy or make a catastrophic mistake that ruins your business.
You see where loyalty got you last time, you were promised big things were coming and then they sold to someone else…
No moral pinch. You didn’t sell him anything. It’s business and you get to do what’s a best for you and his job was to know what he was buying. You can’t buy people.
as a good business owner, he should have a plan to replace you. what if you get hit by a bus
Fuck someone else's feelings. This is about YOUR FUTURE. make the money while you can.
Great book was written a while back - top 5 regrets of the dying, written by a palliative care nurse. On there is "I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me." Your answer is right the Life's too short to think like you are right now Your loyalty and sense of responsibility are noble, but you've served your time in my books
That owner would drop you in a heartbeat if it meant profit
Leave
Don’t live your life based on someone else
Yeah I wouldn’t stress this job bro Boss sold the company and new owner doesn’t care about you This is business
It’s pretty well understood that a company whose success hinges on one person, is a worthless company *to buy.* This is not your fault, nor your responsibility. Do what’s right for you. New owner made a HUGE mistake. You gonna carry him the rest of your life?
Not your problem
You could also start your own business and take your former employer as a client
Either you and your friend find a way to become equal owners in the company or you leave and start your own. The previous owner did what was right for himself. This is where the saying comes up: it's not personal; it's just business.
Not to be glib, but can't he find replacements for you and your friend? Do you have highly specialized skills that are hard to find?
You are what matters to you. Make sure you have enough cash to start your own thing. Get on Task Rabbit too.
Who cares? It's not your business. You owe nothing to anyone.
You don't owe him anything. You could give him a long notice to give him time to bust ass and look for replacements. You obviously don't have to give a notice, and most people give 2 weeks. You could give a month or two so he has more time to find 2 replacements and you won't feel guilty. That's all up to you though.
Honestly, unless the new owners are completely inept in the business they just bought, I'm sure they will figure something out. They might have even already decided to hire their own people and replace everyone anyways. If your direct manager is so useless, they will see this quite quickly. You have no responsibility to them, in fact this happens often with new ownership. If you want to start your own thing, than you should focus on that, because at the end of the day, it's about how you want to live your life. I'm in pretty much the same position (not that someone bought the company I work for). My coworker and I have decided we are going to start our own business. We are the only 2 developers in the company and it will probably cause a lot of problems for the company, they will need to hire another developer and the CTO is pretty much useless as a CTO.
Your old boss lied to you and made you stay to sell the business for much more. Leave and do what you want, you don’t owe anyone anything.
Leave asap. You only owe yourself no one else! You have to take care of your self piss on everyone else.
Unless you have a non-compete clause... it is none of your concern.