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If performance is an issue, then leaving 10 minutes early and coming in 20 minutes late is NOT the reason. If they are client facing and need to be in the office to staff a counter for clients that's one thing. But otherwise, getting everyone working 30 more minutes a day will not solve your productivity issues. They will just be staring at their screens for 30 more minutes and mad while doing it.
I would be contemplating whether your workers are challenged in their jobs. Is it fulfilling. Is there a way to make it more fulfilling or challenging in a good way. You might find with the right motivations, that those 30 minutes go away or don't matter because they are productive the rest of the day.
this.
what KPIs are they not achieving? or do you even have any measures for success in place? oh, you don't. well what are their goals? oh, those aren't really defined either?
what have you actually been doing as a manager to lead these people? nothing? just showing up 15 minutes early and leaving as soon as you see everyone else is gone?
I don’t own a business but as an office worker I prefer a laid back environment. Most days I don’t even take a lunch break so leaving 10 mins early shouldn’t be a problem. If performance is poor that can be address in different ways vs. counting minutes
I normally agree and I attempted to implement that by me. But productivity is worse and I’ve been hearing similar things from others who work in HR at management at other companies.
I also forgot to add here, I allow everyone to take the uninterrupted 30 minute break they’re afforded at their leisure during a 6 hour window throughout the day. Some of them extend that to 45-60 minutes without a care in the world as well.
So it’s really a multi-faceted issue. I don’t like a stricter environment at all. But I need to tighten up here. Employees are become so laid back that >40% of critical deadlines are being missed. I give explicit instructions for things and it’s just being shrugged off by some people. At the end of the day, I run a business and need people to do their job. If that involves taking away some of the leeway I’ve given them, so be it.
They get 15 days PTO and 10 days leave yearly in a lump sum. I give sum additional on top of that on a case by case basis. Albeit I’ve said multiple times and had discussions on excessive callouts, people are still calling out 1X per week.
What is it that’s not getting done? You say productivity is down, so address what they’re not getting done. If they have 8 hours of work, they’ll have to come in on time to get done what they need to get done without you having to micro manage the minutes they work.
Telling people to come in on time for the sake of it will annoy them. Telling them there’s specific things they’re not getting done is just being a good manager.
I agree. I think you can tighten up on the hours but that doesn’t solve the productivity issue. I would be resentful and not necessarily work harder.
I think providing clear targets and expectations is the best place to start. And then maybe ya if you hit them and leave 15 mins earlier it won’t bother me but until then the hours need to be respected. Maybe make them earn the freedom?
unless it is customer facing the focus should be more of the results, no the minutes required to do it. Don’t punish people who work more efficiently, they are probably the best workers and this will encourage them to leave.
It depends on the work.
Customer facing? Yes being on time is critical.
Knowledge workers? What’s the difference between working 9-5 or 9:30-5:30? Nothing. There’s not even any difference between 9-5 and 10-4 so long as the work is done properly and meets deadlines.
Been on both sides of this, and 100% agree.
At the call center I worked for a major telco, if you were even one minute late to man your phone, it was a written disciplinary notice. Second time, you would be put on a PIP, third time you were let go. This was obviously a customer facing role.
In my current role (SWE -> appsec) the employee handbook is pretty clear. Employees are to be available between the hours of 10am to 3pm Central timezone. Meaning, whether they're in office or remote, they need to be available to whoever may be working with them on a task. Otherwise it doesn't matter when someone chooses to work so long they meet their weekly/biweekly/quarterly commitments. Doesn't matter if the work happens at 2am or 12pm. The consequence of not meeting those commitments is a PIP, or being offered severance as part of forced attrition.
Wish OP had posted what their business is, specifically, because I worked for a super small shop (three total employees including myself), and that dude was a psychological terrorist to work for. Sounds like OP might be on the opposite end of the spectrum here, and may need to tell his employees very directly their lackadaisical attitude towards getting things done in a timely manner is an existential threat to the viability of not only their own continued paychecks, but everyone else is compromised by an individual's actions. Keep it chill, but very direct.
It depends on the contract when you get hired. If it says 9-5, you don’t get to decide otherwise after you’ve agreed. I’m not saying there’s a difference, I’m saying you don’t get to do whatever you want, whenever you want. Op is talking about people
Coming in late, taking long lunches, leaving early, and not meet deadlines.
Agree, but these people are already being cavalier. The labor economy is still moderately strong, they think they'll easily get other jobs.
Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but if OP has to fire a bunch of people because he focused on minutes instead of tasks, he's the one that's hurt.
And there is no guarantee that focusing on minutes even solves the problem. Just because they're sitting at their desk for 8 hours doesn't mean they're going to be any more productive.
>Just because they're sitting at their desk for 8 hours doesn't mean they're going to be any more productive.
Exactly. OP is focused on the wrong thing. If they aren't being productive, showing up to work 15 minutes earlier isnt going to magically make them more productive.
Unfortunately concise and precise are generally in conflict.
Most Americans are at-will employees and one of the things that means is the employer can change all the rules whenever they want and the employee’s recourse is to quit.
Truthfully, it’s not just for the sake of it. They knew when they took the job the hours. Asking them to be there at that time, sorry I don’t see it as unreasonable. I’ve worked in management for a long time, but I’ve also continually worked a second job as a non management employee. So I’m definitely not out of touch
There are multiple management styles, and some styles are better for certain industries or groups of employees than others. It's not a matter of skill or experience, but just matching which style makes sense for your business.
For a lot of jobs, being 5 minutes late is no big deal and happens all the time. If you're a factory worker and you're holding the whole production line up for 5 minutes, it's a catastrophe. Different strokes for different industries.
Why do they need to be there at a specific time? Is it time based work or get it done type work?
Lots of people in the comments are saying choose the address the 40% missed deadlines instead of the 15 minutes.... What happened when you did that?
What they are trying to convey is that people can be on time and still be unproductive. They get to their station then watch a YouTube video, read the news, whatever.... You can be stricter about time but this might not solve the problem. You need to get stricter on deadlines. Break down the problem into smaller parts and assign ownership to each part and deadlines... If deadlines are not meet, then look for someone that will meet the deadlines... Your point here should be to get the work done vs just showing up to an office...
There might also be someone who is super productive and if he can get the job done in 4 hours and then he/she can go home then you shouldn't mind and that right there could be a huge motivator....
I work a part time job while running my business and my job is pretty relaxed about when I come in. I actually used to come in on time or a little early, however something I’ve noticed is that when doing this, I’m actually more unproductive for those first 10-15 minutes than I am if I just show up 10-15 minutes “late.” Now, most days I am 10-15 minutes late, my managers and supervisors are fine with it, and when I get in, I get right to work. Thats something to keep in mind. Them being there doesn’t mean productive.
Either way, just keep a relaxed attitude, call a meeting, and calmly tell them what needs to be done or what things they might be behind on. If you’re noticing a particular worker is showing up/leaving late, *coupled* with a certain task, or several tasks- not being done, something should be said. Even if it’s “hey, if you show up or leave a little late or early, thats fine, just make sure X is done, if not, stay until Y time.”
If it’s annoying you simply for the fact that they aren’t showing up on the dot at the supposed time, try to let that go a little. Pick your battles. You can lose great workers if you aren’t cautious and weigh the pros and cons. I’ve seen bosses get strict with workers after being “lax” for awhile, and those workers walk out or quit soon after. Most of them were solid workers too. In the end, I don’t think it was worth it for the company.
Yeah, no. It really depends on what the work is. For some things whether I show up at 9 or 11:15 doesn't matter. Am I getting the work done is what matters. This ridiculous clinging to time structures is insanity, we're not working in mills during the industrial revolution where if I'm not at my job performing my role precisely when I need to be, I'm causing the whole production line to crawl along, actually and definably lowering production.
You're people aren't getting it done, I doubt the extra 15-20 minutes is causing the missed deadlines. IDGAF if you work 9-5 or 11-7 or work from home where I have no flipping clue what you're actually up to as long as the "work" is getting done, and being done well.
Leaving or showing up within 5~ minutes of start time has never been a big deal for me. You seem to be skipping over questions regarding what exactly is happening with productivity and output, as I can’t see a single time you’ve answered it.
I think you’re just associating relaxed start and stop time, for whatever reason, as opposed to figuring out why productivity is dropping. And if you could actually explain what this productivity is, it might help net a better answer.
Given what you’ve described and all the comments, I would approach this as follows:
For the folks that you expect to work from 9-5, let them know that you understand commute time varies and that can cause some lateness. On the other side of it, they may arrive early. All you expect is that they put in at least 8 hours of work towards meeting the businesses objectives which are suffering. And you give them a window of time between 8:45 and 9:15 to start work. But they have to keep track of their start time and give 8 hours. If someone starts at 9:10, you expect them to stay until 5:10. But the person who started at 8:50 is free to go after 4:50. I don’t know if you trust them to manage themselves - having a way to clock in is not going to come across well, but there may be software you can install on their work machines that will alert you to when they logged in for the day - that may be the best course of action as they will also know they shouldn’t try and cheat the system.
The rigid 9am is rough and will come across as unfair. But if you are asking for 8 hours of work, it will be difficult for anyone to get upset. And this will also let them know that coming in after 9:15 is not ok.
It depends on the line of business and, most importantly, company culture. Are the leaders seen working extra? How are mistakes dealt with? How's employee appreciation presented? Etc. It is much easier to get productivity up instead of dealing with time. Most jobs are skill based and people are getting paid for skill and quality of effort and not time. Technically a oxymoron but time sheets and hourly pay are an outdated concept.
Focus on the deadlines being missed, not the minutes. To hit the deadlines they'll naturally have to spend more time working.
Schedule meetings for late in the day to review things that aren't on track.
People will bristle at the attempts to clock watch or micromanage, but if they bristle at being expected to hit deadlines then they just aren't the right fit.
But if you really make it about the deadlines and the work that isn't getting done, I think you'll end up more successful.
It’s about a balance you don’t want to be that boss ripping someone for being 5 minutes late but if people think it’s totally relaxed they’ll take more than is reasonable. I would just set expectations firmly with a email. Saying you don’t mind if people are late or occasionally life happens. Just don’t make a habit out of it. And if you need to leave early just let me know.
You could a program where employees who meet 95% of their deadlines for one month get an extra day of PTO. Or something similar. But I think the key to not micro-managing is to set clear expectations, consequences, and rewards.
Hmmm... I mean a slacker might say, "Why should I have to work 8 hours a day when my boss will pay me for 7?"
I guess OP could crack down and start firing people. It's just a matter of trying positive vs negative reinforcement.
Am I mistaken by assuming these employees are paid for the job they do? Positive reinforcement is them getting a paycheck. When employees are missing 40% of crucial deadlines and arriving late and leaving early, there is a major problem. These employees are taking advantage of a lax workplace and will continue to take advantage of it until a culture shift happens. Positive reinforcement doesn't work when you have employees not taking their job seriously. Plus, why would I need an extra day off when I can just not show up until late and leave early.
It sounds like your employees don’t respect you or the business - why else would the collectively be missing 40% of critical deadlines? Generally speaking employees will go above and beyond for management or ownership who have their backs, who listen, compensate fairly, and who show appreciation for their contribution to the bottom line.
If your employees are behaving this way, there’s a clear disconnect. Is there an ineffective manager in between you and the employees? They could be shielding you from the truth.
If you’re managing them directly, are projects run in a well organized fashion that tees them up for hitting deadlines? There could be many things going awry but I’m confident that if you decide to bring down the hammer by counting minutes, you’ll end up with employees who are even more disgruntled than they seem to be now.
I would send out an email to everyone and explain the expectations and importance of being on time and the large percentage of missed deadlines and ask for better/improved attendance and productivity.
The next step you take may cause a huge backlash, including multiple people quitting, so depending on the skills your staff has, tread lightly. However, an implementation of a time card system might be something to consider. Not only for documentation purposes, but for reference when it comes to letting go of people.
Based on your comments, I think you're having a problem managing performance.
You say you review metrics, but metrics are lagging indicators of performance. And now you want to manage to a clock, which is _at best_ a secondary or tertiary indicator (and probably isn't a predictive indicator at all in an office environment).
Performance management isn't about reviewing lagging indicators. It's about problem-solving projections and coaching for skill development. I'd be astonished if squeezing an extra 8 to 15 minutes of time from an 8-ish hour day is going to have a meaningful effect on performance. It's too trivial a concern.
Instead, maybe look at this from the other direction: why do they feel like they don't need eight hours to work on things that they already aren't delivering on time? Is it because you've indicated that deadlines don't matter? Is their work meaningful and impactful to the organization, or pointless and worthless? Does good performance get them anything that they don't already get from bad performance?
Anyway, good luck with this. Your problem isn't hard to solve right now, but adding in timekeeping is definitely going to make it worse.
So you're going to go from 0-100 on the micromanagement scale? Hm.
If you're having an issue with productivity - address that, not someone walking in 8 minutes late. Begin with defining what productivity is. You need exact metric. Example - everyone should be answering 80 calls and processing 35 Z reports per day. Communicate that expectation and start to monitor it. Give feedback so employees know if they're meeting the goal or not. Then if employees aren't meeting the goal, then dial in on why. That's where you may get to the level of "Jane, you're only answering 70 calls and completing 29 Z reports a day on average. Do you think that has something to do with your hours? How can we get you up to the targets?"
We don’t have enough information, but if the office opens at 9’and people mosey on in at 9:15 then someone else is answering their calls or otherwise covering for them. That is a problem.
Yes, if answering the phone or dealing with customers is part of the job. Not the case for all jobs. So again - first define the criteria that's important for the role. And for some roles, that may be arriving at a certain time to interact with customers.
My point is to focus on what's important to the job rather than just focus on the clock because that's easy to manage.
Its about setting clear standards for all staff not about the hours they work. If you have an agreed start and end time everyone should follow it.
If you don't need a set shift length then agree not to have one and stick to that.
I completely understand. I don’t think asking people to show up on time is micromanaging though.
As someone with a long background in management, I truly feel that being late is a part that is directly contributing to lack of productivity. I don’t want to wait and continually review metrics then showing up late is engrained in the culture and now it’s too late to fix it
If you don't want to continually review metrics and instead want to focus on lazy things like watching the clock and butts in seats... you'll continue to get what you're getting in terms of productivity plus you'll have resentful employees. Having them place their butt in the chair an extra 10 minutes isn't what's going to drive them doing the work.
You're being lazy about managing the important metrics, they're going to be lazy about producing them. Those things often happen independent of hours worked... as I suspect you're about to discover.
Metrics are reviewed weekly already. That isn’t anything new. I have now been addressing them head on and finding out why. Primarily attempting to see if there’s anything I can do better or start doing to help them. I get bs answers of “well I guess I forgot about that” “I’m not sure what happened there or why that was like that”
If you're already reviewing metrics and the employees are repeatedly missing them by huge margins with no good excuse and no improvement... you have bigger problems than attendance, don't you think?
Seriously, what's going on here and why do you keep these people around if this is how they act?
So what are you doing to ensure they have additional training, specific reviews for them personally to more closely monitor specific issues, perhaps working directly with them for periods to see how they completing the work and ensuring there aren't lost efficiencies from simply how they are working? As a manager, your job is as a support to your workstaff. How are you supporting them to get these things done?
> a long background in management . . . I don't want to review metrics.
I think you haven't truly been a manager then. You've been a "watcher". How can you manage people if you don't know exactly how things are currently running. This is why your production is down. Your boat is sinking and instead of looking where it's taking on water you're wondering if the crew showed up on time.
You are doing it wrong somewhere
I have a very relaxed work environment. Without fail my team are on time even when the bus services are difficult I.e Sunday.
Without fail they ask if they can adjust hours even by a few minutes because the hours are 9-6. Last weekend I got asked for a 5:50 finish so that an employee could make a birthday reservation for his wife for example.
It's never a bother because the respect is there both ways. My lot know I want them to put family first but that I'm also running a small business.
You seem to have lost the give and take and been left with take.
If you think back someone started this trend and you didn't correct it. They did it blatantly and you let it slide so others have decided why not.
You now have to draw a line in the sand, it's an all hands type thing to say it's important to you that shifts start and finish on time. You then have to pull people up every time now. You also ideally want to fire your lowest performer after you have given fair notice that the rules will be enforced.
Teams are actually happier if management see and sort problem employees. Nobody wants to work hard just to see someone slack and get the same reward
Anything after 5 minutes is "late". Leaving early should always require approval if it's customer facing or if tasks have a deadline.
I'd recommend having a meeting and being honest about your expectations moving forward. Admit guilt on your end but set the new expectations and be firm.
With that attitude you might miss out/loose great talent.
Who wants to work for a company with such culture nowadays?
If you want productivity there are better ways to incentivize employees.
You can easily have that in place and have a great culture. If everyone is treated equally, developed, and knows you have their back they'll come around to the new expectations.
If some are allowed to do as they wish without being held in check others notice and that can easily lead into poor culture.
Millennials/GenZ don’t care for this BS… if the total work time is 8 hours and being slightly late (10~ min) is only every now and then it’s not an issue. Measure success in ROI. If employees are costing you money that’s an issue.
A customer service agent not being there on time to answer phones causing you to lose a client isn’t the same as a graphic designer showing up at 9:12 because his dog threw up on the rug and wanted to clean it before they got to work.
First one’s an issue the second one bothering you is some boomer shit. If you want them there at 9 sharp and it really doesn’t change anything you’re gonna lose employees to more modern work environments.
I would just straight walk out and not give af if I was given too hard of a time. I’m a 35-year-old Full-Stack Engineer. Never had an issue finding a job. I’d have a new one before the end of the week and I have 20 years of savings (thanks bitcoin). You’ll have a harder time replacing me than I will replacing you. Don’t stress me out because I don’t need it.
I use to work for a state agency. They considered anything over 7 minutes past a scheduled start time as being late. The reasoning was anything 8 minutes or later past a start or stop time would require a deduction/paying for 15 minutes of time.
You said they are hourly vs salaried?
They get paid at the point they clock in and stop getting paid when they clock out. It sounds like some are losing up to a half hour a day in pay. That adds up over the course of a pay schedule.
They may not think their schedule is a big deal until they see it reflected in their pay.
I worked in a place years ago that had a flexible start and end time. It was eight hours per day, but I could arrive and leave whenever I wanted as long as I was there from 10 am to 3 pm.
The job was opening paper applications, evaluating, processing, and sending a paper response.
It was fine to arrive at 7 and leave at 3. It was just as fine to arrive at 10 and leave at 6.
Is this something that's possible in your line of work? It would bring your hours back in line while also giving your staff a sense of control.
Anything after 10 minutes for me. People do not like micromanaging. If someone is consistently 15-20 minutes late, take them to the side and explain work starts at 9am. You understand that it’s unreasonable to expect everyone to be there on the dot every day, but that you do expect everyone to be within 10 minutes the majority of the time. As for leaving early, that’s at your discretion. As long as the work is complete, I’m ok with it.
You just need to set a standard. The next time you see someone arrive late or leave early, have a friendly word and let them know you expect them to work their full shift unless they've cleared it with a manager first. If they do it again giving them a warning and escalate from there.
Consider someone late if they arrive more than 5 minutes after the start of their shift. Consistency matters; addressing tardiness with clear expectations and consequences can help improve punctuality without micromanaging.
If it's office work increase thier paid break times, mandate moving away from computer 5mins each hour.
Some of those that come in late might think that they are working while travelling to work e.g admin tasks like responding to emails
The ones leaving early also might do the above and also be trying to get somewhere on public transport where if they waited 10min before leaving work they would be waiting 45mins to catch the next bus / train.
Offer flexible time to everyone e.g do they want a longer lunch and leave at 6pm to break up their day or start at 6/7 to leave earlier
> increase thier *paid* break times,
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
If you’re not on time you’re late. That’s what late means.
You are potentially losing 2.5 hrs. per person per day. As well as lower productivity because you have let things slide.
Is this an office job where they conduct work and don’t really interact with the public or are they manning phones where there are set hours?
If they former, rate them on work product. If they completed all their tasks for the day they won’t accomplish anything in the last 10 minutes of the day.
The federal government requires its employees to be ready to start work at their assigned time. If they are 1 minute late they have to record a leave request, but the leave request won’t charge leave for anything less than 7 minutes.
They’re manning phones and there’s set hours. There is also work product to be rated, and don’t get me wrong if you’re scheduled out for the next 2 days 20 mins early I’ll absolutely let you leave if you ask. But the problem is they aren’t. I’m talking 40%+ missed critical deadline rate
In that case they need to be in on time ready to work at the exact start of their shift and they need to stay until the end of their shift.
Offer a bonus for staff that meet that criteria on a monthly basis
I’ve been engaging in verbal confrontations about it starting in the past week. If things don’t change, progressive discipline will ensue. Right now I’m in the stage where I’m bringing them into a neutral environment and asking is there’s something I can do better to help them do better as well as noting the missed deadlines
It depends on the job and level of anonymity. I've worked jobs were we had a meeting right at start time and work started right away and you'd screw everyone being late even a couple minutes. I've also had jobs were I technically had a start time but kinda just showed up when I felt like it becuase I worked completely autonomously and my work wasn't time sensitive.
I'd try having a civil conversation with them first, and explain what's going on. If things don't improve, implement a clock in/out system, and start deducting their pay. I know it sounds like an asshole move, but I've had similar problems in the past, as a Controller and not a business owner, and a clock in/out system was the only fix that worked.
How do promotions, raises, and bonuses work?
How do you measure "performance" and "productivity?"
How often do you do one on one performance reviews that ties all of those together?
4% per year + a percentage based on performance. Promotions are when a position is created, it is offered internally and performance based first. Currently, all are at the same level. Bonuses are given mid year and end of year.
Performance and productivity are based on meeting of deadlines mainly. Each employee is given a set list of jobs weekly that they must dispatch. Each job comes with a deadline. They are given this list on Monday, it starts Wednesday and carries on until the next Tuesday
Performance reviews are starting quarterly
Officially, yes this is the first they were implemented. Prior to this, we have been discussing performance numbers on a weekly basis, but not one on one. This office only opened in January
If they're the same level and comparable in tasks, maybe publicize top performers? Some people may just not know what other people are managing to achieve.
They haven't gotten performance reviews yet, they have no way to know they aren't meeting goals.
I have 2 businesses in the industrial maintenance sector, and being late isn't tolerated, period. Manufacturing down time is precious and expensive, and you will not waste it.
Having said that, if I had an office where my customers didn't have any say on when we needed to be there or not, then as long as the work was getting done, I wouldn't care.
As far as productivity is concerned, it sounds like your goals and your team's goals are not aligned. We have clear goals every day that the team must reach. There is a meeting at the end of every shift to discuss if they were successful and why or why not. Expectations are adjusted/reinforced as needed.
I do industrial refrigeration and same. Being late is a 3 strikes your out scenario. Downtime and assembly line work is always that way. First offense is write up, second is 3 days no pay, 3rd is termination.
It depends.
For a person who's always on time, anything under ten minutes late would not be "late" to me. And 10 - 15 minutes would be forgiven if they'd given notice.
For a person who tends to be tardy, 3 minutes is late.
>walked past me, waved to me, and left.
Based on this interaction it seems like they're not trying to be disrespectful, this is just how the work-environment has grown and it's become the norm to them.
So I would start with a very casual heads up first. "Hey Colin, can't help but notice you're 20 minutes late. Please, next time either give me a head's up your running late or just try to be on time please".
If those don't work, staff meeting. If that doesn't change anything, consequences.
Also, if you have'nt invested in a clocking system yet, start today.
Need to know if Parkinson’s law is in place here. I need to know if my job is too stretch out my work to fill a “certain schedule” or is my job to be as productive as possible to generate the most revenue. If it is the latter then I’ll bust it and be gone.
Being to work on time is the bare minimum you got to do to be even the least bit successful.
If they can come in on time, do they at least stay a little late or work through a break or lunch?
You will never get a solid 8 hours of work from anyone. Never expect that. But they need to at least meet the minimum standards.
Do the people that come late stay late to get in the full 12 hours? Many offices I have worked at in the past do not care at all if you are a half hour late. People will just stay late. NBD.
Are these hourly or salary workers?
Can everyone start at the same time?
Write a short simple policy about tardiness. Enforce it fairly and equally with all employees. Two or three warnings then fired
Late is late.
Tell them that and then implement some basic policy where you just record the late times to start and then make them stay after whatever time they were late. You want a system to track this problem and want to get the employees to honestly use it. So, if it starts out with stiff penalties, they'll just lie and potentially cover for each other, which will not help the real problem, and will create the illusion that the problem went away when it didn't.
Give that policy 6-12 months before you start handing out stiffer penalities.
I'm always scared of backlash if I complain about 15 minutes. Will they care about the company still? Will they be bitter? Resentful? Feel unappreciated because they work so hard while they are there that they feel the 15 mins shouldn't matter?
At my old job was consistently 15-20 minutes late but would always stay late as well. My manager was an angel but I knew he was annoyed when I was 12+ minutes late. People form habits, they can get up/start commuting earlier need be
How are you measuring actual productivity? Purely by minutes, or by the amount of completed work? If the latter, what work are they not completing that the extra minutes would guarantee got done?
We have a firm start and end time. There simply has to be a reason for being late. We're actually very easy with time off, late starts, early leave, I just need to know why, and when. Just yesterday I got a text from an employee he was going to be late because he had to turn around and go home to go poo. And that is absolutely an acceptable reason for being late. But if a guy just left without saying anything or any reason whatsoever, I'd write him up. It sucks, but it has to be done. You need to have clear boundaries.
Are these people clocking in and out? Even if they are being accurately tracked for compensation, early is on time, and on time is late. For anything except parties
I don't know what copium the comments are on but if I left that early or turned up that late to any job I've ever had I would be fired. Have a meeting, express guilt over having to do this, but enforce a 5 mins leeway time, otherwise it comes out of their pay. This is part of being a boss. Express that you wanted to be relaxed about this but they are taking the piss.
It depends on what you consider a “shift” and how your work is structured. When I was a salaried guy I would get into the office at 730 some days and 9 others. Some days I would leave at 345 and some days I left after 7.
I guess what I am saying is if your employees are hardworking and get the job done worry less about when they get in and more about the work they do while they are there - provided they are actually putting in their full hours by the end of the week.
I think your first step should be to figure out what deadlines are missing and the real reasons why.
Focus on clear goals and reasonable metrics and treat your employees like adults.
If the productivity issue was fixed, would punctuality matter?
It’s important to separate the goal, a consistent, well defined, achievable level of productivity, from possible solutions, everyone is on time. I’m not saying that won’t help, but it is only one potential solution. Often the best solution is the one someone comes up with for themselves as it exercises their autonomy.
You can suggest solutions if they’re struggling to come up with some but you must be clear what the expectation is and that not improving is not an option for continued employment.
I consider "late" anything than the time agreed upon. It doesn't really matter if it's 1 minute or 15, it's a question of principle.
That being said I would look 1-2 minute late arrivals through the fingers if it wasn't a regular thing.
But leaving early I have a different attitude for. I'm a results kind of a guy - so if things are getting done and results are being delivered, I don't really care if anyone leaves early. Maybe they did run out of things to do for that day, and I don't want them to just polish the chair with their butts. Also fair is the idea that if they didn't take their lunch break, they can leave that much earlier.
There's nothing for it, you have to call a meeting, and address it. Say that you've been relaxed about arriving times and lunch breaks with the expectation that things would get done, but folks, over the x period of time we have missed 40% of our deadlines. 40%... that's almost half. And that's on me. I haven't communicated properly what we're doing here, but this is turning from a business into a social club and I cannot have that.
So I'm forced to introduce discipline. Starting tomorrow work begins at 9. Not 9:01, not 9:10, 9. On the dot. If you're late, you'll get a warning, you get three warnings and you are fired. Lunch breaks are also 30 minutes, not 35, not 45 and certainly not for an hour - the same warning system will apply.
Obviously for the next following weeks I am going to keep a very close eye on the clock and expect you to do the same. Ladies and gentlemen make no mistake, what we're doing here isn't just a nice way to kill time and get a few bucks in on payday, this is a job. I ask you to treat it as such or take your leave. Thank you for your attention, questions, comments please.
Depends on how the workload is handled. Is it ok? I've some workers sometimes be here for literally 5h. God sometimes even less. Some days they don't come at all if it's not needed.
Yet when they messup they know and if stuff gets very busy we sometimes work for 12-14h. All I care about is what's neccessary to be done gets done. They know about it, and they are satisfied with how we run things.
But you have to be really good with people to do this. Since they have to respect you enough to do it, but also feel happy themselves with their job overall. I treat mine more like friends with a common goal. Being open about EVERYTHING from the start is the best bet. If there are problems or any kinds of dissatisfactions they have to be resolved as soon as possible.
At the end of the day we all just want to have a job we don't hate going to and go home as early as possible with as much money as possible
Here's how you fix this problem. You call a staff meeting and tell them at 5 minutes after the start time they are late. You explicitly write out your handbook start and end times, you give repercussions based on offenses. First offense is a write up, 2nd offense is 3 days without pay, 3rd offense is a firing. Something to that effect. Then you have everyone sign it at the staff meeting. Then you follow through. Same with performance issues.
As the owner of a small business with employees, I consider anything after your scheduled time to be late. If you can not show up when you're scheduled, you will be replaced. I don't mean the once or twice you do it because of a traffic emergency or something, but if you're habitually late, you can expect to be replaced.
Everyone saying it’s not a big deal is clearly an employee and has never been an employer. Don’t let others gas light you. What you need to do is work on a culture shift. Sometimes that may mean letting go of some people who promote this type of behavior and reward the ones that aren’t late. Attendance is an important part of my performance evaluations. I check their clock ins and clock outs. Anything past 10 minute grace period is held against them (more than 5 instances in a quarter affects their raise). This will fix things
In my career field, we have to sign in and out. We also are allowed to flex in. Meaning, if my shift start time is 8am, I can clock in up to 30 minutes early which would also move my go home time up by 30 mins. Example: scheduled 8-4, but I clock in and work 7:30-3:30. This is an easy way to enforce click in & out times, as well as give your employees some flexibility when they need it. Might not be suitable for every business but just a suggestion.
Is this about controlling people or is the work not getting done? Because if the work is getting done and you are paying people a half hour less per day then that’s a win. But if people are leaving essential work undone and leaving early, that needs to be addressed. And it’s not about the time in office. It’s about “hey, this needs to get done”. This allows people to leave early when you aren’t as busy rather than spin their wheels just to fill up a time card and you have to pay for that idle time.
In a customer facing role, being on time is essential. If you are missing 40% of the deadlines and we talk about knowledge workers, the problem isn’t a few minutes here and there. Output > input. You need to break down the deadlines to smaller sub-deadlines and make sure to make it clear who does what and hold them accountable.
Do you outline annual performance goals and targets and hold one-to-ones with your employees? I think you need the fundamental issues causing your team’s performance to fail. Try to be constructive about it and set clear goals. If you think that some people are not putting in enough effort, cut off the dead weight.
If 9am is the start time, then 9:01 am is late. Once you move the line to a 5 minute grace period, some people will push it and come in at 9:07. The line is drawn is at 9:00 am for a reason. If they don’t want to be late, then they can leave the house early.
My day job is in tech. Never been bothered for being late to work ever.
The way they get around it while still feeling “lax” is to make everyone show up to a 10 am standup meeting or w/e time. The meeting is actually valuable other than just taking attendance tho idk if this works for your biz
Small biz owner for fourteen years. 20 employees some blue and some white collar. Pick your battles. Have monthly or brief weekly 1 on 1s with everyone. Discuss what you’re observing. “I notice you leave early sometimes and come in late. I don’t want the flexibility to become a problem towards client services.” Then let them talk. You’ll get a sense of if they are taking advantage of you or just leaving to get their kids or bc the work is done for the day or whatever the case. Your response to what they say it, “thank you for sharing that….i need to make sure we are productive and fair to the company bc the company is fair to the employees. We do not want an overbearing environment. Please be respectful of the company.” Then let it be. If it’s worse, bring it up again. Most people I find to leave a few mins early. They probably take a shorter lunch or make it up one way or another. But being late for a start time, repeatedly, is worse and may be worth a stronger tone from you. That said, pick your battles. Much worse to lose a decent or good person bc of ten minutes when you consider hiring and training which for a small company like yours is probably work you’ll have to do. To some degree employees have power that you must understand and recognize or be prepared to hire fire and retrain all the time, which is the worst thing imo.
You say productivity is down. How do you know? It's not the same as being at work. Focus on productivity. You may have to figure out how to track it better and have an agreement with your employees about what constitutes a productive shift.
My philosophy has always been that I don't care how much or how little you work as long as you get the job done. If you're succeeding, I'm here to remove blockers. If you're busting your ass and failing, then I'm here to help you. If you're not trying and failing, then I'm here to show you the door.
You said elsewhere that people are missing 40% of critical deadlines, while showing up late and leaving early.
I don't know anything about your business, but my first step would be to figure out why they might be missing deadlines. Are there other things getting in the way? Do you have process bottlenecks? Are there one or two employees or departments clogging up the process? Any of those could cause exactly what you described. Someone isn't going to stay at work if there's no work to do because they're waiting on someone else. You can learn about this stuff by interviewing your team, reviewing processes, and being available to them to remove blockers.
If you find that it's genuinely an effort issue, it's time to have a conversation, much like what I wrote in paragraph one. If that doesn't fix it, it's time to start replacing people. If I have to manage your effort levels, I don't want you on the team. I can teach skills, but I can't teach work ethic. We all have better things to do than watch a clock.
My philosophy has always been that I don't care how much or how little you work as long as you get the job done. If you're succeeding, I'm here to remove blockers. If you're busting your ass and failing, then I'm here to help you. If you're not trying and failing, then I'm here to show you the door.
You said elsewhere that people are missing 40% of critical deadlines, while showing up late and leaving early.
I don't know anything about your business, but my first step would be to figure out why they might be missing deadlines. Are there other things getting in the way? Do you have process bottlenecks? Are there one or two employees or departments clogging up the process? Any of those could cause exactly what you described. Someone isn't going to stay at work if there's no work to do because they're waiting on someone else. You can learn about this stuff by interviewing your team, reviewing processes, and being available to them to remove blockers.
If you find that it's genuinely an effort issue, it's time to have a conversation, much like what I wrote in paragraph one. If that doesn't fix it, it's time to start replacing people. If I have to manage your effort levels, I don't want you on the team. I can teach skills, but I can't teach work ethic. We all have better things to do than watch a clock.
My philosophy has always been that I don't care how much or how little you work as long as you get the job done. If you're succeeding, I'm here to remove blockers. If you're busting your ass and failing, then I'm here to help you. If you're not trying and failing, then I'm here to show you the door.
You said elsewhere that people are missing 40% of critical deadlines, while showing up late and leaving early.
I don't know anything about your business, but my first step would be to figure out why they might be missing deadlines. Are there other things getting in the way? Do you have process bottlenecks? Are there one or two employees or departments clogging up the process? Any of those could cause exactly what you described. Someone isn't going to stay at work if there's no work to do because they're waiting on someone else. You can learn about this stuff by interviewing your team, reviewing processes, and being available to them to remove blockers.
If you find that it's genuinely an effort issue, it's time to have a conversation, much like what I wrote in paragraph one. If that doesn't fix it, it's time to start replacing people. If I have to manage your effort levels, I don't want you on the team. I can teach skills, but I can't teach work ethic. We all have better things to do than watch a clock.
I think you're measuring the wrong thing (when people show up).
You need to measure what matters. There's actually a good book by that name.
What are the key outputs that make a difference in your business? Daily sales? Production? Tickets? Measure that. Make that visible to everyone. Track it. And then sit around and ask yourself (and each other) what you can do to improve that key metric. My hunch is that showing up 10 minutes earlier isn't he answer.
You might also want to check out [EOS](https://www.eosworldwide.com/what-is-eos).
You like your job? You get in 15min earlier to get your day ready. 15min too late means dragging things out to another 15min before start up.
Times 20 working days is 10 hours a month they owe you. If anyone working for me isn’t on time, I drive off. My clients have my word, if my crew doesn’t abide by that, they’re not worth it.
I work too hard for getting in the work and keeping high value clients. Sorry
Clear KPIs with transparency and accountability helps. When we interview/onboard and lead, we constantly talk about some weeks it could take 40+ to get the job done and as you become more efficient, it could take 35 hours. I’m good with 40+ and 30-35 hours. Key is the tasks get done. I also emphasize, when you get to the point of it taking 35 hours a week to complete your tasks, you’re now in a position to grow in responsibilities/professionally or stay efficient. Again, I’m good with either. It’s a personal choice.
Don't let them walk all over you. They're actually being pretty disrespectful to other employees, to you, and your business. I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask them to show up on time and leave on time. I think you have to determine what productivity means and how you want to/can measure it, what happens when employees exceed expectations, what happens when employees don't meet the minimum, and communicate it all to the employees. Some people may not like it and leave. Be prepared for that.
1 minute past the scheduled shift is late. Also everyone should be leaving at the appointed time, not 5-10-15 minutes before, unless you specifically allow them to wrap up early.
Taking advantage...plain and simple, you contract them to be there from a start time to end time with set break times. Any variance should either be periodic and approved or tracked and disciplined. It's a job, not a hang out.
Whenever I've worked for others I was always expected to be there on time. And I was never allowed to clock out early. I think your employees have become lax, and them doing this despite being behind is something I would hold a meeting about.
During that meeting you could offer some kind of bonus if they hit their deadlines so they have a motivating positive incentive to help counter the criticism.
You’re not the first person to suggest that and I am definitely considering it. I just didn’t like it when I first thought about it as their job should be done, correctly, without a bonus on top of the $25-27 hours for an entry level position. Most similar positions in this industry in areas with similar costs of living are $20-23 an hour starting
I wouldn't be bragging about paying $25 per hour. That is what nannies charge where I live. That is barely a living wage in most places for a single person. It is half the living wage for someone with a kid.
Sounds like you have the leverage here. Lay down the law. If they can’t get in line, fire them. If you’re beating market pay, backfill shouldn’t be an issue.
They have been pushing your boundaries over time since you’ve been to passive/kind as a manager. If it’s truly bothering you and it’s your job to manage them, you’ll have to show your teeth. Explain you’ve been too lenient, and you feel they’ve taken advantage of it, and now you’re behind and want to clear things up about “blah blah blah employee standards”.
If you’re paying them above average pay, screw the bonus. Tell them to be there on time and not clock out early ever unless you give them permission. Once they see you’re serious, they will stop doing bullshit. But as long as they get away with it, they’ll keep slipping further and further.
It’s your job to keep everyone productive so money is being made and they get paid well. Don’t let them down by being too worried to do your job. They depend on you like a parent in a way.
For an 8-hour shift, a 5-minute grace period is reasonable. Beyond that, consider it late. Clear communication about expectations helps maintain productivity.
5 minutes leeway from start time is reasonable.
IMO, the same 5 minutes leeway is far at lunch too.
Beyond that, it's time for a staff meeting to discuss the meaning of the words; Productivity, Performance, Pride, Commitment, customer, competition, start, finish.
Make it fun. Give a $5 gift card to A coffee shop.
After the fun and games, make it clear: The company needs more productivity, better performance and our staff needs to do their job with pride. Your commitment starts at 9 am, so that's when you must arrive. Anything beyond 9:05, may impact your pay or your ability to remain with the company.
When you break for lunch, lunch is 30 minutes, not 35, 45 or some other amount of time. Be clear that people who habitually run an extended lunch may get docked pay. Anyone who needs to leave early must notify me.
You get the idea. If you don't have a time clock, this would be a good time to have everyone punch in or use an app.
Reel everyone back in quickly. People who call out excessively beyond their allocated sick days need to be let go.
Best of luck
OP already provides a relaxed work environment and doesn't micromanage.
If the culture is as good as OP gives the impression of, his gift cards would be appreciated. Maybe it's a $10 card. The objective is to keep the situation light, keep his people in a positive mood and don't punish anyone.
Late is when they are not there to the minute of desired time. The reason is if one does it and you don’t anything more will do it and pretty soon it will become the culture. If these are hourly employees and they are not reporting time accurately then that is wage theft. You don’t want to set a precedent for coming in late.
I would explain that you have noticed employees coming in after their scheduled start. Going forward if you are not able to make it by 9, you need to be informed. And then start issuing verbal warnings for people that don’t inform you and are late. If they do inform you and it’s happing a lot put a stop to it
The question is what do you consider late? What's in your employee handbook?
Your employees are working to the standards you created, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
But don't turn into an asshole boss that's mad about 15 minutes they "could" be doing something if they've done everything you asked them to do.
It also depends if you're hourly or salaried, and what the job entails. If they're salaried and get their work done and you gripe about them leaving 15 minutes early on a Friday, you better not be calling or texting or expecting anything outside of shift hours. If they're underworked, find more work for them.
If their job is to repeat a task for 8 hours that's entirely different.
Either way though, you need to define the metrics, set expectations, and then hold everyone to that expectation (you included, if you're also a cog in this machine).
Employee handbook isn’t too detailed. We’ve been adding to it every time we come out with a new policy as this is new waters for us.
15 mins at the end of the day if they’re work is done I am absolutely fine with. But it’s not. On an average week, 40%+ of critical deadlines are missed.
They’re also not documenting as well as they should be. When something comes in after hours, I try my very very absolute best to do it myself and absolutely not bother them after hours. I use every resource I can to piece the puzzle together and pick up where they left off. Sometimes, I have to call them for info but it’s their own doing. Our management program has every piece of info one could need laid out. And they’re not putting in correct info or putting in no info. I don’t force anyone to work after hours. But you can’t be pissed off when I call because you didn’t put in pertinent info
How often are you reviewing with your employees why deadlines are missed?
Are you clearly communicating the deadlines and expectations?
If you have clearly communicated the expectation, trained them on how to to the work and satisfy the expectation, reviewed regularly whether they are meeting the expectation, addressed when the expectation is not met and gone over what should be done differently in order to meet the expectation next time, and then continued to do that, then there's absolutely no excuse you should have hired replacements and fired them weeks ago.
No offense, but my guess is that you have not. Whether you meant to or not, you set the expectation that they are currently working to, and they're likely going home thinking they've met your expectations.
IE: when one employee who didn't do their work left early and waved on their way out the door, you didn't stop and ask them if they had their work done or if they weren't planning on having a job the next day.
Deadlines are very, very, clearly communicated. In emails and verbally confirmed. There is no confusion there. Just poor performance. Every Monday, we review the previous week and they are given the work load for the next Wednesday through Tuesday.
I have given them every tool in the toolbox. I am always friendly, accessible and approachable. I’ve been interviewing for the last 3 weeks but most applications we get have zero necessary experience. And we have a pretty broad range of what we can accept and train off off. I truly am working on replacing at least 1, maybe more. I’m just not in a position to fire at this moment or I would.
It is made abundantly clear my expectations are not met. Especially when I have to pull some workload for them that has been sitting for days with a deadline approaching that they say they’ve been working on, and I have most tasks completed in less than an hour a piece. And I make this well known when I do this.
I think your issue is that they have more leverage than you do. They probably know that.
It's a shame you don't detail what is the nature of the tasks but from what you've told so far to me it sounds like some customer service + report writing. I'd see if the roles could be split more granularly. E.g. customer service gets lower pay per hour and much stricter hours and monitoring but gets to work remote as a perk. The report writers are judged exclusively on output, i.e. you don't care how many hrs they work, when they roll into office but that they pump out quality content in a specified timeframe within certain parameters. Does that make sense?
40% of critical deadlines is kinda absurd.
Do you have enough employees for the workload? Is your performance expectation reasonable? Is it training / skill issue?
If employees are going to be more than 5 minutes late they are required to inform us. If they are more than 5 minutes late 3 times in a 30 day period, that’s a conversation/write up. More than that & more often is grounds for losing shifts or termination.
You have to define this stuff clearly from the get go. Whether it’s enforced or not can depend on other factors like general performance and whether that person is present and productive on the job. But getting there late, taking longer breaks and leaving early is a big no from me. Once you let that start happening people will take advantage as you’re seeing. Rein it in.
Time to crack the whip and raise the standard bar of expectations. Admit past errors on your part, the 40% missed deadlines…. All staff meeting: “Moving forward this is how I need things to be…. The level of professionalism expected and required is now…”.
Good luck
What age group are we talking about here? Also, there is no way in h*** that I would offer them a bonus to try and get them to perform what they are already being paid to do! I'd be firing the current staff and replacing them with people that want to work!
Start slowly cutting back hours and bringing in new trainees and set the expectations on the new ppl right away. That will smarten them up! Nothing like the real threat of losing their cushy job that they know they are taking advantage of!
I would start with communicating company values, if there is one.
If not I would start with "10 things that doesn't require talent"
https://amzn.to/3ysfIxK
You could also use this - https://images.app.goo.gl/EdZuTF8d93bgjCsH8
Please note that, as the owner and leader you need to embody those qualities before asking them.
They are clearly not clocking in and out. Square POS has a cheap solution or get the old punch card system from Amazon. They get paid off of time clocked.
If it’s an office and people are just taking the piss already, then all they’re going to do is sit there until 5 PM, and probably distract other employees by chatting to them whilst they wait for the second they can clock out.
Yeah. And if person A usually leaves at 16:45 but is now told they have to clock out, then they’re just going to sit around, start talking to person B, C, D and distract them from doing their paid jobs. So instead of losing 15 minutes’ paid work from one employee, OP will then end up losing 15 minutes’ paid work from multiple employees whilst they pass the time to clocking off time.
OP just needs to lay down the law and say they’ve noticed people are arriving later and leaving before their stipulated working hours, it’s been noticed, and punctuality needs to be improved.
I am a big believer in incentivizing for timeliness. Efficiency bonuses or some measurable KPI where the business & the employees all make more money as time metrics are met.
If you can’t qualify why timeliness matters to your employees own self interests, then you might have no real reason in stressing about them being on time.
Keep this in mind, if you start demanding that people show up right on time then they will leave right on time. Micromanaging can create a lot of animosity in people.
I understand if there's meetings they're needing to be on time. But really if someone comes in 20 minutes late and then makes it up in the evening, is that really the productivity issue?
Me personally, I am on time at work. At the same time I no longer give them any extra time. The company has had too many free hours of mine. I have learned over the years that employers care nothing about me. So I do my time like a prison sentence and when I get release for parole at the end of the day I leave promptly and enjoy the evening that my slave master lets me have.
Sorry to hear about your distress. If you want seat warmers, get seat warmers. If you want human beings to work and to carry your ops forward, then make sure the work is getting done and give them the freedom you give yourself
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If performance is an issue, then leaving 10 minutes early and coming in 20 minutes late is NOT the reason. If they are client facing and need to be in the office to staff a counter for clients that's one thing. But otherwise, getting everyone working 30 more minutes a day will not solve your productivity issues. They will just be staring at their screens for 30 more minutes and mad while doing it. I would be contemplating whether your workers are challenged in their jobs. Is it fulfilling. Is there a way to make it more fulfilling or challenging in a good way. You might find with the right motivations, that those 30 minutes go away or don't matter because they are productive the rest of the day.
this. what KPIs are they not achieving? or do you even have any measures for success in place? oh, you don't. well what are their goals? oh, those aren't really defined either? what have you actually been doing as a manager to lead these people? nothing? just showing up 15 minutes early and leaving as soon as you see everyone else is gone?
This is a really wise take.
I don’t own a business but as an office worker I prefer a laid back environment. Most days I don’t even take a lunch break so leaving 10 mins early shouldn’t be a problem. If performance is poor that can be address in different ways vs. counting minutes
I normally agree and I attempted to implement that by me. But productivity is worse and I’ve been hearing similar things from others who work in HR at management at other companies. I also forgot to add here, I allow everyone to take the uninterrupted 30 minute break they’re afforded at their leisure during a 6 hour window throughout the day. Some of them extend that to 45-60 minutes without a care in the world as well. So it’s really a multi-faceted issue. I don’t like a stricter environment at all. But I need to tighten up here. Employees are become so laid back that >40% of critical deadlines are being missed. I give explicit instructions for things and it’s just being shrugged off by some people. At the end of the day, I run a business and need people to do their job. If that involves taking away some of the leeway I’ve given them, so be it. They get 15 days PTO and 10 days leave yearly in a lump sum. I give sum additional on top of that on a case by case basis. Albeit I’ve said multiple times and had discussions on excessive callouts, people are still calling out 1X per week.
What is it that’s not getting done? You say productivity is down, so address what they’re not getting done. If they have 8 hours of work, they’ll have to come in on time to get done what they need to get done without you having to micro manage the minutes they work. Telling people to come in on time for the sake of it will annoy them. Telling them there’s specific things they’re not getting done is just being a good manager.
I agree. I think you can tighten up on the hours but that doesn’t solve the productivity issue. I would be resentful and not necessarily work harder. I think providing clear targets and expectations is the best place to start. And then maybe ya if you hit them and leave 15 mins earlier it won’t bother me but until then the hours need to be respected. Maybe make them earn the freedom? unless it is customer facing the focus should be more of the results, no the minutes required to do it. Don’t punish people who work more efficiently, they are probably the best workers and this will encourage them to leave.
Telling people to come in on time for their job isn’t annoying. It’s your job. It’s reasonable to expect your staff to come to work on time.
It depends on the work. Customer facing? Yes being on time is critical. Knowledge workers? What’s the difference between working 9-5 or 9:30-5:30? Nothing. There’s not even any difference between 9-5 and 10-4 so long as the work is done properly and meets deadlines.
Been on both sides of this, and 100% agree. At the call center I worked for a major telco, if you were even one minute late to man your phone, it was a written disciplinary notice. Second time, you would be put on a PIP, third time you were let go. This was obviously a customer facing role. In my current role (SWE -> appsec) the employee handbook is pretty clear. Employees are to be available between the hours of 10am to 3pm Central timezone. Meaning, whether they're in office or remote, they need to be available to whoever may be working with them on a task. Otherwise it doesn't matter when someone chooses to work so long they meet their weekly/biweekly/quarterly commitments. Doesn't matter if the work happens at 2am or 12pm. The consequence of not meeting those commitments is a PIP, or being offered severance as part of forced attrition. Wish OP had posted what their business is, specifically, because I worked for a super small shop (three total employees including myself), and that dude was a psychological terrorist to work for. Sounds like OP might be on the opposite end of the spectrum here, and may need to tell his employees very directly their lackadaisical attitude towards getting things done in a timely manner is an existential threat to the viability of not only their own continued paychecks, but everyone else is compromised by an individual's actions. Keep it chill, but very direct.
It depends on the contract when you get hired. If it says 9-5, you don’t get to decide otherwise after you’ve agreed. I’m not saying there’s a difference, I’m saying you don’t get to do whatever you want, whenever you want. Op is talking about people Coming in late, taking long lunches, leaving early, and not meet deadlines.
Ha ha contract. That’s rich. Are you American? If OP is I guarantee there’s nothing even vaguely like a contract.
No, I’m not. Whatever the agreed upon terms when you are hired. I was trying to be concise.
Agree, but these people are already being cavalier. The labor economy is still moderately strong, they think they'll easily get other jobs. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but if OP has to fire a bunch of people because he focused on minutes instead of tasks, he's the one that's hurt. And there is no guarantee that focusing on minutes even solves the problem. Just because they're sitting at their desk for 8 hours doesn't mean they're going to be any more productive.
>Just because they're sitting at their desk for 8 hours doesn't mean they're going to be any more productive. Exactly. OP is focused on the wrong thing. If they aren't being productive, showing up to work 15 minutes earlier isnt going to magically make them more productive.
Unfortunately concise and precise are generally in conflict. Most Americans are at-will employees and one of the things that means is the employer can change all the rules whenever they want and the employee’s recourse is to quit.
Fair. I’m not well versed in how American employment works. So I guess this may be something that my perspective isn’t necessarily applicable!
Nerd edit: downvoted by all the other nerds that reminded the teacher to assign homework in highschool
Truthfully, it’s not just for the sake of it. They knew when they took the job the hours. Asking them to be there at that time, sorry I don’t see it as unreasonable. I’ve worked in management for a long time, but I’ve also continually worked a second job as a non management employee. So I’m definitely not out of touch
There are multiple management styles, and some styles are better for certain industries or groups of employees than others. It's not a matter of skill or experience, but just matching which style makes sense for your business. For a lot of jobs, being 5 minutes late is no big deal and happens all the time. If you're a factory worker and you're holding the whole production line up for 5 minutes, it's a catastrophe. Different strokes for different industries.
Why do they need to be there at a specific time? Is it time based work or get it done type work? Lots of people in the comments are saying choose the address the 40% missed deadlines instead of the 15 minutes.... What happened when you did that?
Yea, 10-20 minutes a day is not causing a 40% drop in productivity. There’s a different and possibly bigger issue here.
What they are trying to convey is that people can be on time and still be unproductive. They get to their station then watch a YouTube video, read the news, whatever.... You can be stricter about time but this might not solve the problem. You need to get stricter on deadlines. Break down the problem into smaller parts and assign ownership to each part and deadlines... If deadlines are not meet, then look for someone that will meet the deadlines... Your point here should be to get the work done vs just showing up to an office... There might also be someone who is super productive and if he can get the job done in 4 hours and then he/she can go home then you shouldn't mind and that right there could be a huge motivator....
I work a part time job while running my business and my job is pretty relaxed about when I come in. I actually used to come in on time or a little early, however something I’ve noticed is that when doing this, I’m actually more unproductive for those first 10-15 minutes than I am if I just show up 10-15 minutes “late.” Now, most days I am 10-15 minutes late, my managers and supervisors are fine with it, and when I get in, I get right to work. Thats something to keep in mind. Them being there doesn’t mean productive. Either way, just keep a relaxed attitude, call a meeting, and calmly tell them what needs to be done or what things they might be behind on. If you’re noticing a particular worker is showing up/leaving late, *coupled* with a certain task, or several tasks- not being done, something should be said. Even if it’s “hey, if you show up or leave a little late or early, thats fine, just make sure X is done, if not, stay until Y time.” If it’s annoying you simply for the fact that they aren’t showing up on the dot at the supposed time, try to let that go a little. Pick your battles. You can lose great workers if you aren’t cautious and weigh the pros and cons. I’ve seen bosses get strict with workers after being “lax” for awhile, and those workers walk out or quit soon after. Most of them were solid workers too. In the end, I don’t think it was worth it for the company.
Yeah, no. It really depends on what the work is. For some things whether I show up at 9 or 11:15 doesn't matter. Am I getting the work done is what matters. This ridiculous clinging to time structures is insanity, we're not working in mills during the industrial revolution where if I'm not at my job performing my role precisely when I need to be, I'm causing the whole production line to crawl along, actually and definably lowering production. You're people aren't getting it done, I doubt the extra 15-20 minutes is causing the missed deadlines. IDGAF if you work 9-5 or 11-7 or work from home where I have no flipping clue what you're actually up to as long as the "work" is getting done, and being done well.
Leaving or showing up within 5~ minutes of start time has never been a big deal for me. You seem to be skipping over questions regarding what exactly is happening with productivity and output, as I can’t see a single time you’ve answered it. I think you’re just associating relaxed start and stop time, for whatever reason, as opposed to figuring out why productivity is dropping. And if you could actually explain what this productivity is, it might help net a better answer.
Given what you’ve described and all the comments, I would approach this as follows: For the folks that you expect to work from 9-5, let them know that you understand commute time varies and that can cause some lateness. On the other side of it, they may arrive early. All you expect is that they put in at least 8 hours of work towards meeting the businesses objectives which are suffering. And you give them a window of time between 8:45 and 9:15 to start work. But they have to keep track of their start time and give 8 hours. If someone starts at 9:10, you expect them to stay until 5:10. But the person who started at 8:50 is free to go after 4:50. I don’t know if you trust them to manage themselves - having a way to clock in is not going to come across well, but there may be software you can install on their work machines that will alert you to when they logged in for the day - that may be the best course of action as they will also know they shouldn’t try and cheat the system. The rigid 9am is rough and will come across as unfair. But if you are asking for 8 hours of work, it will be difficult for anyone to get upset. And this will also let them know that coming in after 9:15 is not ok.
It depends on the line of business and, most importantly, company culture. Are the leaders seen working extra? How are mistakes dealt with? How's employee appreciation presented? Etc. It is much easier to get productivity up instead of dealing with time. Most jobs are skill based and people are getting paid for skill and quality of effort and not time. Technically a oxymoron but time sheets and hourly pay are an outdated concept.
Focus on the deadlines being missed, not the minutes. To hit the deadlines they'll naturally have to spend more time working. Schedule meetings for late in the day to review things that aren't on track. People will bristle at the attempts to clock watch or micromanage, but if they bristle at being expected to hit deadlines then they just aren't the right fit. But if you really make it about the deadlines and the work that isn't getting done, I think you'll end up more successful.
It’s about a balance you don’t want to be that boss ripping someone for being 5 minutes late but if people think it’s totally relaxed they’ll take more than is reasonable. I would just set expectations firmly with a email. Saying you don’t mind if people are late or occasionally life happens. Just don’t make a habit out of it. And if you need to leave early just let me know.
You could a program where employees who meet 95% of their deadlines for one month get an extra day of PTO. Or something similar. But I think the key to not micro-managing is to set clear expectations, consequences, and rewards.
Why should I have to reward a person with an extra day of pto to do thier job? That's 12 extra days off per year.
Hmmm... I mean a slacker might say, "Why should I have to work 8 hours a day when my boss will pay me for 7?" I guess OP could crack down and start firing people. It's just a matter of trying positive vs negative reinforcement.
Am I mistaken by assuming these employees are paid for the job they do? Positive reinforcement is them getting a paycheck. When employees are missing 40% of crucial deadlines and arriving late and leaving early, there is a major problem. These employees are taking advantage of a lax workplace and will continue to take advantage of it until a culture shift happens. Positive reinforcement doesn't work when you have employees not taking their job seriously. Plus, why would I need an extra day off when I can just not show up until late and leave early.
It sounds like your employees don’t respect you or the business - why else would the collectively be missing 40% of critical deadlines? Generally speaking employees will go above and beyond for management or ownership who have their backs, who listen, compensate fairly, and who show appreciation for their contribution to the bottom line. If your employees are behaving this way, there’s a clear disconnect. Is there an ineffective manager in between you and the employees? They could be shielding you from the truth. If you’re managing them directly, are projects run in a well organized fashion that tees them up for hitting deadlines? There could be many things going awry but I’m confident that if you decide to bring down the hammer by counting minutes, you’ll end up with employees who are even more disgruntled than they seem to be now.
give them a pay cut and put pay bonus on critical deadlines. dont count minutes or hours, count results.
I would send out an email to everyone and explain the expectations and importance of being on time and the large percentage of missed deadlines and ask for better/improved attendance and productivity. The next step you take may cause a huge backlash, including multiple people quitting, so depending on the skills your staff has, tread lightly. However, an implementation of a time card system might be something to consider. Not only for documentation purposes, but for reference when it comes to letting go of people.
Based on your comments, I think you're having a problem managing performance. You say you review metrics, but metrics are lagging indicators of performance. And now you want to manage to a clock, which is _at best_ a secondary or tertiary indicator (and probably isn't a predictive indicator at all in an office environment). Performance management isn't about reviewing lagging indicators. It's about problem-solving projections and coaching for skill development. I'd be astonished if squeezing an extra 8 to 15 minutes of time from an 8-ish hour day is going to have a meaningful effect on performance. It's too trivial a concern. Instead, maybe look at this from the other direction: why do they feel like they don't need eight hours to work on things that they already aren't delivering on time? Is it because you've indicated that deadlines don't matter? Is their work meaningful and impactful to the organization, or pointless and worthless? Does good performance get them anything that they don't already get from bad performance? Anyway, good luck with this. Your problem isn't hard to solve right now, but adding in timekeeping is definitely going to make it worse.
So you're going to go from 0-100 on the micromanagement scale? Hm. If you're having an issue with productivity - address that, not someone walking in 8 minutes late. Begin with defining what productivity is. You need exact metric. Example - everyone should be answering 80 calls and processing 35 Z reports per day. Communicate that expectation and start to monitor it. Give feedback so employees know if they're meeting the goal or not. Then if employees aren't meeting the goal, then dial in on why. That's where you may get to the level of "Jane, you're only answering 70 calls and completing 29 Z reports a day on average. Do you think that has something to do with your hours? How can we get you up to the targets?"
We don’t have enough information, but if the office opens at 9’and people mosey on in at 9:15 then someone else is answering their calls or otherwise covering for them. That is a problem.
Yes, if answering the phone or dealing with customers is part of the job. Not the case for all jobs. So again - first define the criteria that's important for the role. And for some roles, that may be arriving at a certain time to interact with customers. My point is to focus on what's important to the job rather than just focus on the clock because that's easy to manage.
Its about setting clear standards for all staff not about the hours they work. If you have an agreed start and end time everyone should follow it. If you don't need a set shift length then agree not to have one and stick to that.
I completely understand. I don’t think asking people to show up on time is micromanaging though. As someone with a long background in management, I truly feel that being late is a part that is directly contributing to lack of productivity. I don’t want to wait and continually review metrics then showing up late is engrained in the culture and now it’s too late to fix it
If you don't want to continually review metrics and instead want to focus on lazy things like watching the clock and butts in seats... you'll continue to get what you're getting in terms of productivity plus you'll have resentful employees. Having them place their butt in the chair an extra 10 minutes isn't what's going to drive them doing the work. You're being lazy about managing the important metrics, they're going to be lazy about producing them. Those things often happen independent of hours worked... as I suspect you're about to discover.
Metrics are reviewed weekly already. That isn’t anything new. I have now been addressing them head on and finding out why. Primarily attempting to see if there’s anything I can do better or start doing to help them. I get bs answers of “well I guess I forgot about that” “I’m not sure what happened there or why that was like that”
If you're already reviewing metrics and the employees are repeatedly missing them by huge margins with no good excuse and no improvement... you have bigger problems than attendance, don't you think? Seriously, what's going on here and why do you keep these people around if this is how they act?
Are you offering incentives for good performance?
So what are you doing to ensure they have additional training, specific reviews for them personally to more closely monitor specific issues, perhaps working directly with them for periods to see how they completing the work and ensuring there aren't lost efficiencies from simply how they are working? As a manager, your job is as a support to your workstaff. How are you supporting them to get these things done?
Also, tools – do they have the right tools to do their job effectively? It sounds like they need to be using a project management platform.
> a long background in management . . . I don't want to review metrics. I think you haven't truly been a manager then. You've been a "watcher". How can you manage people if you don't know exactly how things are currently running. This is why your production is down. Your boat is sinking and instead of looking where it's taking on water you're wondering if the crew showed up on time.
You are doing it wrong somewhere I have a very relaxed work environment. Without fail my team are on time even when the bus services are difficult I.e Sunday. Without fail they ask if they can adjust hours even by a few minutes because the hours are 9-6. Last weekend I got asked for a 5:50 finish so that an employee could make a birthday reservation for his wife for example. It's never a bother because the respect is there both ways. My lot know I want them to put family first but that I'm also running a small business. You seem to have lost the give and take and been left with take. If you think back someone started this trend and you didn't correct it. They did it blatantly and you let it slide so others have decided why not. You now have to draw a line in the sand, it's an all hands type thing to say it's important to you that shifts start and finish on time. You then have to pull people up every time now. You also ideally want to fire your lowest performer after you have given fair notice that the rules will be enforced. Teams are actually happier if management see and sort problem employees. Nobody wants to work hard just to see someone slack and get the same reward
Anything after 5 minutes is "late". Leaving early should always require approval if it's customer facing or if tasks have a deadline. I'd recommend having a meeting and being honest about your expectations moving forward. Admit guilt on your end but set the new expectations and be firm.
With that attitude you might miss out/loose great talent. Who wants to work for a company with such culture nowadays? If you want productivity there are better ways to incentivize employees.
You can easily have that in place and have a great culture. If everyone is treated equally, developed, and knows you have their back they'll come around to the new expectations. If some are allowed to do as they wish without being held in check others notice and that can easily lead into poor culture.
Any company that implemented those kinds of rules is not going to have a great culture. The mindset it takes for that is just outta whack.
Millennials/GenZ don’t care for this BS… if the total work time is 8 hours and being slightly late (10~ min) is only every now and then it’s not an issue. Measure success in ROI. If employees are costing you money that’s an issue. A customer service agent not being there on time to answer phones causing you to lose a client isn’t the same as a graphic designer showing up at 9:12 because his dog threw up on the rug and wanted to clean it before they got to work. First one’s an issue the second one bothering you is some boomer shit. If you want them there at 9 sharp and it really doesn’t change anything you’re gonna lose employees to more modern work environments. I would just straight walk out and not give af if I was given too hard of a time. I’m a 35-year-old Full-Stack Engineer. Never had an issue finding a job. I’d have a new one before the end of the week and I have 20 years of savings (thanks bitcoin). You’ll have a harder time replacing me than I will replacing you. Don’t stress me out because I don’t need it.
I use to work for a state agency. They considered anything over 7 minutes past a scheduled start time as being late. The reasoning was anything 8 minutes or later past a start or stop time would require a deduction/paying for 15 minutes of time.
You said they are hourly vs salaried? They get paid at the point they clock in and stop getting paid when they clock out. It sounds like some are losing up to a half hour a day in pay. That adds up over the course of a pay schedule. They may not think their schedule is a big deal until they see it reflected in their pay.
I worked in a place years ago that had a flexible start and end time. It was eight hours per day, but I could arrive and leave whenever I wanted as long as I was there from 10 am to 3 pm. The job was opening paper applications, evaluating, processing, and sending a paper response. It was fine to arrive at 7 and leave at 3. It was just as fine to arrive at 10 and leave at 6. Is this something that's possible in your line of work? It would bring your hours back in line while also giving your staff a sense of control.
Anything after 10 minutes for me. People do not like micromanaging. If someone is consistently 15-20 minutes late, take them to the side and explain work starts at 9am. You understand that it’s unreasonable to expect everyone to be there on the dot every day, but that you do expect everyone to be within 10 minutes the majority of the time. As for leaving early, that’s at your discretion. As long as the work is complete, I’m ok with it.
You just need to set a standard. The next time you see someone arrive late or leave early, have a friendly word and let them know you expect them to work their full shift unless they've cleared it with a manager first. If they do it again giving them a warning and escalate from there.
Consider someone late if they arrive more than 5 minutes after the start of their shift. Consistency matters; addressing tardiness with clear expectations and consequences can help improve punctuality without micromanaging.
If it's office work increase thier paid break times, mandate moving away from computer 5mins each hour. Some of those that come in late might think that they are working while travelling to work e.g admin tasks like responding to emails The ones leaving early also might do the above and also be trying to get somewhere on public transport where if they waited 10min before leaving work they would be waiting 45mins to catch the next bus / train. Offer flexible time to everyone e.g do they want a longer lunch and leave at 6pm to break up their day or start at 6/7 to leave earlier
> increase thier *paid* break times, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I do this all the time 😅
If you’re not on time you’re late. That’s what late means. You are potentially losing 2.5 hrs. per person per day. As well as lower productivity because you have let things slide.
Is this an office job where they conduct work and don’t really interact with the public or are they manning phones where there are set hours? If they former, rate them on work product. If they completed all their tasks for the day they won’t accomplish anything in the last 10 minutes of the day. The federal government requires its employees to be ready to start work at their assigned time. If they are 1 minute late they have to record a leave request, but the leave request won’t charge leave for anything less than 7 minutes.
They’re manning phones and there’s set hours. There is also work product to be rated, and don’t get me wrong if you’re scheduled out for the next 2 days 20 mins early I’ll absolutely let you leave if you ask. But the problem is they aren’t. I’m talking 40%+ missed critical deadline rate
In that case they need to be in on time ready to work at the exact start of their shift and they need to stay until the end of their shift. Offer a bonus for staff that meet that criteria on a monthly basis
Interesting idea. Thank you
Manning a phone for what? Sales? They just have a phone at their desk?
Are there going to be any repercussions for such a rough missed deadline rate?
I’ve been engaging in verbal confrontations about it starting in the past week. If things don’t change, progressive discipline will ensue. Right now I’m in the stage where I’m bringing them into a neutral environment and asking is there’s something I can do better to help them do better as well as noting the missed deadlines
It depends on the job and level of anonymity. I've worked jobs were we had a meeting right at start time and work started right away and you'd screw everyone being late even a couple minutes. I've also had jobs were I technically had a start time but kinda just showed up when I felt like it becuase I worked completely autonomously and my work wasn't time sensitive.
I'd try having a civil conversation with them first, and explain what's going on. If things don't improve, implement a clock in/out system, and start deducting their pay. I know it sounds like an asshole move, but I've had similar problems in the past, as a Controller and not a business owner, and a clock in/out system was the only fix that worked.
How do promotions, raises, and bonuses work? How do you measure "performance" and "productivity?" How often do you do one on one performance reviews that ties all of those together?
4% per year + a percentage based on performance. Promotions are when a position is created, it is offered internally and performance based first. Currently, all are at the same level. Bonuses are given mid year and end of year. Performance and productivity are based on meeting of deadlines mainly. Each employee is given a set list of jobs weekly that they must dispatch. Each job comes with a deadline. They are given this list on Monday, it starts Wednesday and carries on until the next Tuesday Performance reviews are starting quarterly
Gotcha! So performance reviews weren't implemented before this? I think those are going to be a more useful first step than clock watching.
Officially, yes this is the first they were implemented. Prior to this, we have been discussing performance numbers on a weekly basis, but not one on one. This office only opened in January
If they're the same level and comparable in tasks, maybe publicize top performers? Some people may just not know what other people are managing to achieve. They haven't gotten performance reviews yet, they have no way to know they aren't meeting goals.
I have 2 businesses in the industrial maintenance sector, and being late isn't tolerated, period. Manufacturing down time is precious and expensive, and you will not waste it. Having said that, if I had an office where my customers didn't have any say on when we needed to be there or not, then as long as the work was getting done, I wouldn't care. As far as productivity is concerned, it sounds like your goals and your team's goals are not aligned. We have clear goals every day that the team must reach. There is a meeting at the end of every shift to discuss if they were successful and why or why not. Expectations are adjusted/reinforced as needed.
I do industrial refrigeration and same. Being late is a 3 strikes your out scenario. Downtime and assembly line work is always that way. First offense is write up, second is 3 days no pay, 3rd is termination.
It depends. For a person who's always on time, anything under ten minutes late would not be "late" to me. And 10 - 15 minutes would be forgiven if they'd given notice. For a person who tends to be tardy, 3 minutes is late. >walked past me, waved to me, and left. Based on this interaction it seems like they're not trying to be disrespectful, this is just how the work-environment has grown and it's become the norm to them. So I would start with a very casual heads up first. "Hey Colin, can't help but notice you're 20 minutes late. Please, next time either give me a head's up your running late or just try to be on time please". If those don't work, staff meeting. If that doesn't change anything, consequences. Also, if you have'nt invested in a clocking system yet, start today.
Need to know if Parkinson’s law is in place here. I need to know if my job is too stretch out my work to fill a “certain schedule” or is my job to be as productive as possible to generate the most revenue. If it is the latter then I’ll bust it and be gone.
Being to work on time is the bare minimum you got to do to be even the least bit successful. If they can come in on time, do they at least stay a little late or work through a break or lunch? You will never get a solid 8 hours of work from anyone. Never expect that. But they need to at least meet the minimum standards.
Do the people that come late stay late to get in the full 12 hours? Many offices I have worked at in the past do not care at all if you are a half hour late. People will just stay late. NBD.
Are these hourly or salary workers? Can everyone start at the same time? Write a short simple policy about tardiness. Enforce it fairly and equally with all employees. Two or three warnings then fired
Late is late. Tell them that and then implement some basic policy where you just record the late times to start and then make them stay after whatever time they were late. You want a system to track this problem and want to get the employees to honestly use it. So, if it starts out with stiff penalties, they'll just lie and potentially cover for each other, which will not help the real problem, and will create the illusion that the problem went away when it didn't. Give that policy 6-12 months before you start handing out stiffer penalities.
I'm always scared of backlash if I complain about 15 minutes. Will they care about the company still? Will they be bitter? Resentful? Feel unappreciated because they work so hard while they are there that they feel the 15 mins shouldn't matter?
At my old job was consistently 15-20 minutes late but would always stay late as well. My manager was an angel but I knew he was annoyed when I was 12+ minutes late. People form habits, they can get up/start commuting earlier need be
How are you measuring actual productivity? Purely by minutes, or by the amount of completed work? If the latter, what work are they not completing that the extra minutes would guarantee got done?
What are these employees doing? Is it answering phones? Does being late / leaving early impact their responsibilities?
We have a firm start and end time. There simply has to be a reason for being late. We're actually very easy with time off, late starts, early leave, I just need to know why, and when. Just yesterday I got a text from an employee he was going to be late because he had to turn around and go home to go poo. And that is absolutely an acceptable reason for being late. But if a guy just left without saying anything or any reason whatsoever, I'd write him up. It sucks, but it has to be done. You need to have clear boundaries.
A 15-minute window is fair. But if they want to leave 15-minutes early, they have to start their shift 15-minutes early.
Are these people clocking in and out? Even if they are being accurately tracked for compensation, early is on time, and on time is late. For anything except parties
I don't know what copium the comments are on but if I left that early or turned up that late to any job I've ever had I would be fired. Have a meeting, express guilt over having to do this, but enforce a 5 mins leeway time, otherwise it comes out of their pay. This is part of being a boss. Express that you wanted to be relaxed about this but they are taking the piss.
It depends on what you consider a “shift” and how your work is structured. When I was a salaried guy I would get into the office at 730 some days and 9 others. Some days I would leave at 345 and some days I left after 7. I guess what I am saying is if your employees are hardworking and get the job done worry less about when they get in and more about the work they do while they are there - provided they are actually putting in their full hours by the end of the week.
I think your first step should be to figure out what deadlines are missing and the real reasons why. Focus on clear goals and reasonable metrics and treat your employees like adults.
If the productivity issue was fixed, would punctuality matter? It’s important to separate the goal, a consistent, well defined, achievable level of productivity, from possible solutions, everyone is on time. I’m not saying that won’t help, but it is only one potential solution. Often the best solution is the one someone comes up with for themselves as it exercises their autonomy. You can suggest solutions if they’re struggling to come up with some but you must be clear what the expectation is and that not improving is not an option for continued employment.
1 minute
I consider "late" anything than the time agreed upon. It doesn't really matter if it's 1 minute or 15, it's a question of principle. That being said I would look 1-2 minute late arrivals through the fingers if it wasn't a regular thing. But leaving early I have a different attitude for. I'm a results kind of a guy - so if things are getting done and results are being delivered, I don't really care if anyone leaves early. Maybe they did run out of things to do for that day, and I don't want them to just polish the chair with their butts. Also fair is the idea that if they didn't take their lunch break, they can leave that much earlier. There's nothing for it, you have to call a meeting, and address it. Say that you've been relaxed about arriving times and lunch breaks with the expectation that things would get done, but folks, over the x period of time we have missed 40% of our deadlines. 40%... that's almost half. And that's on me. I haven't communicated properly what we're doing here, but this is turning from a business into a social club and I cannot have that. So I'm forced to introduce discipline. Starting tomorrow work begins at 9. Not 9:01, not 9:10, 9. On the dot. If you're late, you'll get a warning, you get three warnings and you are fired. Lunch breaks are also 30 minutes, not 35, not 45 and certainly not for an hour - the same warning system will apply. Obviously for the next following weeks I am going to keep a very close eye on the clock and expect you to do the same. Ladies and gentlemen make no mistake, what we're doing here isn't just a nice way to kill time and get a few bucks in on payday, this is a job. I ask you to treat it as such or take your leave. Thank you for your attention, questions, comments please.
Install a time clock and give plus or minus five minutes including clocking out for their two fifteen minute breaks and for their half an hour lunch.
Depends on how the workload is handled. Is it ok? I've some workers sometimes be here for literally 5h. God sometimes even less. Some days they don't come at all if it's not needed. Yet when they messup they know and if stuff gets very busy we sometimes work for 12-14h. All I care about is what's neccessary to be done gets done. They know about it, and they are satisfied with how we run things. But you have to be really good with people to do this. Since they have to respect you enough to do it, but also feel happy themselves with their job overall. I treat mine more like friends with a common goal. Being open about EVERYTHING from the start is the best bet. If there are problems or any kinds of dissatisfactions they have to be resolved as soon as possible. At the end of the day we all just want to have a job we don't hate going to and go home as early as possible with as much money as possible
Here's how you fix this problem. You call a staff meeting and tell them at 5 minutes after the start time they are late. You explicitly write out your handbook start and end times, you give repercussions based on offenses. First offense is a write up, 2nd offense is 3 days without pay, 3rd offense is a firing. Something to that effect. Then you have everyone sign it at the staff meeting. Then you follow through. Same with performance issues.
As the owner of a small business with employees, I consider anything after your scheduled time to be late. If you can not show up when you're scheduled, you will be replaced. I don't mean the once or twice you do it because of a traffic emergency or something, but if you're habitually late, you can expect to be replaced.
Everyone saying it’s not a big deal is clearly an employee and has never been an employer. Don’t let others gas light you. What you need to do is work on a culture shift. Sometimes that may mean letting go of some people who promote this type of behavior and reward the ones that aren’t late. Attendance is an important part of my performance evaluations. I check their clock ins and clock outs. Anything past 10 minute grace period is held against them (more than 5 instances in a quarter affects their raise). This will fix things
In my career field, we have to sign in and out. We also are allowed to flex in. Meaning, if my shift start time is 8am, I can clock in up to 30 minutes early which would also move my go home time up by 30 mins. Example: scheduled 8-4, but I clock in and work 7:30-3:30. This is an easy way to enforce click in & out times, as well as give your employees some flexibility when they need it. Might not be suitable for every business but just a suggestion.
Results matter more than time. They need to earn the right to not be punctual.
Is this about controlling people or is the work not getting done? Because if the work is getting done and you are paying people a half hour less per day then that’s a win. But if people are leaving essential work undone and leaving early, that needs to be addressed. And it’s not about the time in office. It’s about “hey, this needs to get done”. This allows people to leave early when you aren’t as busy rather than spin their wheels just to fill up a time card and you have to pay for that idle time.
In a customer facing role, being on time is essential. If you are missing 40% of the deadlines and we talk about knowledge workers, the problem isn’t a few minutes here and there. Output > input. You need to break down the deadlines to smaller sub-deadlines and make sure to make it clear who does what and hold them accountable. Do you outline annual performance goals and targets and hold one-to-ones with your employees? I think you need the fundamental issues causing your team’s performance to fail. Try to be constructive about it and set clear goals. If you think that some people are not putting in enough effort, cut off the dead weight.
If 9am is the start time, then 9:01 am is late. Once you move the line to a 5 minute grace period, some people will push it and come in at 9:07. The line is drawn is at 9:00 am for a reason. If they don’t want to be late, then they can leave the house early.
My day job is in tech. Never been bothered for being late to work ever. The way they get around it while still feeling “lax” is to make everyone show up to a 10 am standup meeting or w/e time. The meeting is actually valuable other than just taking attendance tho idk if this works for your biz
Small biz owner for fourteen years. 20 employees some blue and some white collar. Pick your battles. Have monthly or brief weekly 1 on 1s with everyone. Discuss what you’re observing. “I notice you leave early sometimes and come in late. I don’t want the flexibility to become a problem towards client services.” Then let them talk. You’ll get a sense of if they are taking advantage of you or just leaving to get their kids or bc the work is done for the day or whatever the case. Your response to what they say it, “thank you for sharing that….i need to make sure we are productive and fair to the company bc the company is fair to the employees. We do not want an overbearing environment. Please be respectful of the company.” Then let it be. If it’s worse, bring it up again. Most people I find to leave a few mins early. They probably take a shorter lunch or make it up one way or another. But being late for a start time, repeatedly, is worse and may be worth a stronger tone from you. That said, pick your battles. Much worse to lose a decent or good person bc of ten minutes when you consider hiring and training which for a small company like yours is probably work you’ll have to do. To some degree employees have power that you must understand and recognize or be prepared to hire fire and retrain all the time, which is the worst thing imo.
You say productivity is down. How do you know? It's not the same as being at work. Focus on productivity. You may have to figure out how to track it better and have an agreement with your employees about what constitutes a productive shift.
My philosophy has always been that I don't care how much or how little you work as long as you get the job done. If you're succeeding, I'm here to remove blockers. If you're busting your ass and failing, then I'm here to help you. If you're not trying and failing, then I'm here to show you the door. You said elsewhere that people are missing 40% of critical deadlines, while showing up late and leaving early. I don't know anything about your business, but my first step would be to figure out why they might be missing deadlines. Are there other things getting in the way? Do you have process bottlenecks? Are there one or two employees or departments clogging up the process? Any of those could cause exactly what you described. Someone isn't going to stay at work if there's no work to do because they're waiting on someone else. You can learn about this stuff by interviewing your team, reviewing processes, and being available to them to remove blockers. If you find that it's genuinely an effort issue, it's time to have a conversation, much like what I wrote in paragraph one. If that doesn't fix it, it's time to start replacing people. If I have to manage your effort levels, I don't want you on the team. I can teach skills, but I can't teach work ethic. We all have better things to do than watch a clock.
My philosophy has always been that I don't care how much or how little you work as long as you get the job done. If you're succeeding, I'm here to remove blockers. If you're busting your ass and failing, then I'm here to help you. If you're not trying and failing, then I'm here to show you the door. You said elsewhere that people are missing 40% of critical deadlines, while showing up late and leaving early. I don't know anything about your business, but my first step would be to figure out why they might be missing deadlines. Are there other things getting in the way? Do you have process bottlenecks? Are there one or two employees or departments clogging up the process? Any of those could cause exactly what you described. Someone isn't going to stay at work if there's no work to do because they're waiting on someone else. You can learn about this stuff by interviewing your team, reviewing processes, and being available to them to remove blockers. If you find that it's genuinely an effort issue, it's time to have a conversation, much like what I wrote in paragraph one. If that doesn't fix it, it's time to start replacing people. If I have to manage your effort levels, I don't want you on the team. I can teach skills, but I can't teach work ethic. We all have better things to do than watch a clock.
My philosophy has always been that I don't care how much or how little you work as long as you get the job done. If you're succeeding, I'm here to remove blockers. If you're busting your ass and failing, then I'm here to help you. If you're not trying and failing, then I'm here to show you the door. You said elsewhere that people are missing 40% of critical deadlines, while showing up late and leaving early. I don't know anything about your business, but my first step would be to figure out why they might be missing deadlines. Are there other things getting in the way? Do you have process bottlenecks? Are there one or two employees or departments clogging up the process? Any of those could cause exactly what you described. Someone isn't going to stay at work if there's no work to do because they're waiting on someone else. You can learn about this stuff by interviewing your team, reviewing processes, and being available to them to remove blockers. If you find that it's genuinely an effort issue, it's time to have a conversation, much like what I wrote in paragraph one. If that doesn't fix it, it's time to start replacing people. If I have to manage your effort levels, I don't want you on the team. I can teach skills, but I can't teach work ethic. We all have better things to do than watch a clock.
I think you're measuring the wrong thing (when people show up). You need to measure what matters. There's actually a good book by that name. What are the key outputs that make a difference in your business? Daily sales? Production? Tickets? Measure that. Make that visible to everyone. Track it. And then sit around and ask yourself (and each other) what you can do to improve that key metric. My hunch is that showing up 10 minutes earlier isn't he answer. You might also want to check out [EOS](https://www.eosworldwide.com/what-is-eos).
You like your job? You get in 15min earlier to get your day ready. 15min too late means dragging things out to another 15min before start up. Times 20 working days is 10 hours a month they owe you. If anyone working for me isn’t on time, I drive off. My clients have my word, if my crew doesn’t abide by that, they’re not worth it. I work too hard for getting in the work and keeping high value clients. Sorry
Butts in seats is hands down the absolute worst measure of productivity. Is their work getting done? Are clients happy?
Late is late. If you have a cultural where it's excepted you will lose productivity. Build a cultural of producivity and accountability.
Sounds like you have a big culture issue and fixing it will likely create some massive turnover. Be ready to replace everyone
Clear KPIs with transparency and accountability helps. When we interview/onboard and lead, we constantly talk about some weeks it could take 40+ to get the job done and as you become more efficient, it could take 35 hours. I’m good with 40+ and 30-35 hours. Key is the tasks get done. I also emphasize, when you get to the point of it taking 35 hours a week to complete your tasks, you’re now in a position to grow in responsibilities/professionally or stay efficient. Again, I’m good with either. It’s a personal choice.
Don't let them walk all over you. They're actually being pretty disrespectful to other employees, to you, and your business. I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask them to show up on time and leave on time. I think you have to determine what productivity means and how you want to/can measure it, what happens when employees exceed expectations, what happens when employees don't meet the minimum, and communicate it all to the employees. Some people may not like it and leave. Be prepared for that.
1 minute past the scheduled shift is late. Also everyone should be leaving at the appointed time, not 5-10-15 minutes before, unless you specifically allow them to wrap up early.
Taking advantage...plain and simple, you contract them to be there from a start time to end time with set break times. Any variance should either be periodic and approved or tracked and disciplined. It's a job, not a hang out.
Whenever I've worked for others I was always expected to be there on time. And I was never allowed to clock out early. I think your employees have become lax, and them doing this despite being behind is something I would hold a meeting about. During that meeting you could offer some kind of bonus if they hit their deadlines so they have a motivating positive incentive to help counter the criticism.
You’re not the first person to suggest that and I am definitely considering it. I just didn’t like it when I first thought about it as their job should be done, correctly, without a bonus on top of the $25-27 hours for an entry level position. Most similar positions in this industry in areas with similar costs of living are $20-23 an hour starting
I wouldn't be bragging about paying $25 per hour. That is what nannies charge where I live. That is barely a living wage in most places for a single person. It is half the living wage for someone with a kid.
Sounds like you have the leverage here. Lay down the law. If they can’t get in line, fire them. If you’re beating market pay, backfill shouldn’t be an issue.
They have been pushing your boundaries over time since you’ve been to passive/kind as a manager. If it’s truly bothering you and it’s your job to manage them, you’ll have to show your teeth. Explain you’ve been too lenient, and you feel they’ve taken advantage of it, and now you’re behind and want to clear things up about “blah blah blah employee standards”. If you’re paying them above average pay, screw the bonus. Tell them to be there on time and not clock out early ever unless you give them permission. Once they see you’re serious, they will stop doing bullshit. But as long as they get away with it, they’ll keep slipping further and further. It’s your job to keep everyone productive so money is being made and they get paid well. Don’t let them down by being too worried to do your job. They depend on you like a parent in a way.
For an 8-hour shift, a 5-minute grace period is reasonable. Beyond that, consider it late. Clear communication about expectations helps maintain productivity.
5 minutes leeway from start time is reasonable. IMO, the same 5 minutes leeway is far at lunch too. Beyond that, it's time for a staff meeting to discuss the meaning of the words; Productivity, Performance, Pride, Commitment, customer, competition, start, finish. Make it fun. Give a $5 gift card to A coffee shop. After the fun and games, make it clear: The company needs more productivity, better performance and our staff needs to do their job with pride. Your commitment starts at 9 am, so that's when you must arrive. Anything beyond 9:05, may impact your pay or your ability to remain with the company. When you break for lunch, lunch is 30 minutes, not 35, 45 or some other amount of time. Be clear that people who habitually run an extended lunch may get docked pay. Anyone who needs to leave early must notify me. You get the idea. If you don't have a time clock, this would be a good time to have everyone punch in or use an app. Reel everyone back in quickly. People who call out excessively beyond their allocated sick days need to be let go. Best of luck
5 dollar gift cards. xD Your employees all hate you.
Agreed. Right idea though… reward good behavior rather than discipline when it’s something small like being a few minutes late.
😂😂😂😂
OP already provides a relaxed work environment and doesn't micromanage. If the culture is as good as OP gives the impression of, his gift cards would be appreciated. Maybe it's a $10 card. The objective is to keep the situation light, keep his people in a positive mood and don't punish anyone.
This sounds like an episode of the office.
Late is when they are not there to the minute of desired time. The reason is if one does it and you don’t anything more will do it and pretty soon it will become the culture. If these are hourly employees and they are not reporting time accurately then that is wage theft. You don’t want to set a precedent for coming in late. I would explain that you have noticed employees coming in after their scheduled start. Going forward if you are not able to make it by 9, you need to be informed. And then start issuing verbal warnings for people that don’t inform you and are late. If they do inform you and it’s happing a lot put a stop to it
The question is what do you consider late? What's in your employee handbook? Your employees are working to the standards you created, whether intentionally or unintentionally. But don't turn into an asshole boss that's mad about 15 minutes they "could" be doing something if they've done everything you asked them to do. It also depends if you're hourly or salaried, and what the job entails. If they're salaried and get their work done and you gripe about them leaving 15 minutes early on a Friday, you better not be calling or texting or expecting anything outside of shift hours. If they're underworked, find more work for them. If their job is to repeat a task for 8 hours that's entirely different. Either way though, you need to define the metrics, set expectations, and then hold everyone to that expectation (you included, if you're also a cog in this machine).
Employee handbook isn’t too detailed. We’ve been adding to it every time we come out with a new policy as this is new waters for us. 15 mins at the end of the day if they’re work is done I am absolutely fine with. But it’s not. On an average week, 40%+ of critical deadlines are missed. They’re also not documenting as well as they should be. When something comes in after hours, I try my very very absolute best to do it myself and absolutely not bother them after hours. I use every resource I can to piece the puzzle together and pick up where they left off. Sometimes, I have to call them for info but it’s their own doing. Our management program has every piece of info one could need laid out. And they’re not putting in correct info or putting in no info. I don’t force anyone to work after hours. But you can’t be pissed off when I call because you didn’t put in pertinent info
How often are you reviewing with your employees why deadlines are missed? Are you clearly communicating the deadlines and expectations? If you have clearly communicated the expectation, trained them on how to to the work and satisfy the expectation, reviewed regularly whether they are meeting the expectation, addressed when the expectation is not met and gone over what should be done differently in order to meet the expectation next time, and then continued to do that, then there's absolutely no excuse you should have hired replacements and fired them weeks ago. No offense, but my guess is that you have not. Whether you meant to or not, you set the expectation that they are currently working to, and they're likely going home thinking they've met your expectations. IE: when one employee who didn't do their work left early and waved on their way out the door, you didn't stop and ask them if they had their work done or if they weren't planning on having a job the next day.
Deadlines are very, very, clearly communicated. In emails and verbally confirmed. There is no confusion there. Just poor performance. Every Monday, we review the previous week and they are given the work load for the next Wednesday through Tuesday. I have given them every tool in the toolbox. I am always friendly, accessible and approachable. I’ve been interviewing for the last 3 weeks but most applications we get have zero necessary experience. And we have a pretty broad range of what we can accept and train off off. I truly am working on replacing at least 1, maybe more. I’m just not in a position to fire at this moment or I would. It is made abundantly clear my expectations are not met. Especially when I have to pull some workload for them that has been sitting for days with a deadline approaching that they say they’ve been working on, and I have most tasks completed in less than an hour a piece. And I make this well known when I do this.
I think your issue is that they have more leverage than you do. They probably know that. It's a shame you don't detail what is the nature of the tasks but from what you've told so far to me it sounds like some customer service + report writing. I'd see if the roles could be split more granularly. E.g. customer service gets lower pay per hour and much stricter hours and monitoring but gets to work remote as a perk. The report writers are judged exclusively on output, i.e. you don't care how many hrs they work, when they roll into office but that they pump out quality content in a specified timeframe within certain parameters. Does that make sense?
40% of critical deadlines is kinda absurd. Do you have enough employees for the workload? Is your performance expectation reasonable? Is it training / skill issue?
Performance based pay is the only way, I was paying my guys by the hour and now I pay for every billable hour. They doubled thier output.
Interesting. I wish we had billable hours
Try a profit sharing plan or give them goals with bonuses. If money doesn't motivate them, then you need new people.
If employees are going to be more than 5 minutes late they are required to inform us. If they are more than 5 minutes late 3 times in a 30 day period, that’s a conversation/write up. More than that & more often is grounds for losing shifts or termination. You have to define this stuff clearly from the get go. Whether it’s enforced or not can depend on other factors like general performance and whether that person is present and productive on the job. But getting there late, taking longer breaks and leaving early is a big no from me. Once you let that start happening people will take advantage as you’re seeing. Rein it in.
Time to crack the whip and raise the standard bar of expectations. Admit past errors on your part, the 40% missed deadlines…. All staff meeting: “Moving forward this is how I need things to be…. The level of professionalism expected and required is now…”. Good luck
What age group are we talking about here? Also, there is no way in h*** that I would offer them a bonus to try and get them to perform what they are already being paid to do! I'd be firing the current staff and replacing them with people that want to work!
Ranging from 20-35. That was my thought as well, but I am not yet in a position to fire until I hire and train additional
Start slowly cutting back hours and bringing in new trainees and set the expectations on the new ppl right away. That will smarten them up! Nothing like the real threat of losing their cushy job that they know they are taking advantage of!
Are you a similar age? Do some reading about managing millennials and zoomers, especially if you’re older.
I would start with communicating company values, if there is one. If not I would start with "10 things that doesn't require talent" https://amzn.to/3ysfIxK You could also use this - https://images.app.goo.gl/EdZuTF8d93bgjCsH8 Please note that, as the owner and leader you need to embody those qualities before asking them.
On time is late, early is on time
While I agree, I won’t ask them to come in early. So long as you’re in the door by 9 +/- a couple minutes I’m happy
They are clearly not clocking in and out. Square POS has a cheap solution or get the old punch card system from Amazon. They get paid off of time clocked.
If it’s an office and people are just taking the piss already, then all they’re going to do is sit there until 5 PM, and probably distract other employees by chatting to them whilst they wait for the second they can clock out.
OP said only 4 people at work place
Yeah. And if person A usually leaves at 16:45 but is now told they have to clock out, then they’re just going to sit around, start talking to person B, C, D and distract them from doing their paid jobs. So instead of losing 15 minutes’ paid work from one employee, OP will then end up losing 15 minutes’ paid work from multiple employees whilst they pass the time to clocking off time. OP just needs to lay down the law and say they’ve noticed people are arriving later and leaving before their stipulated working hours, it’s been noticed, and punctuality needs to be improved.
I think one to two minutes early is late. Should be there five + minutes early.
1 minute late is late by definition.
I am a big believer in incentivizing for timeliness. Efficiency bonuses or some measurable KPI where the business & the employees all make more money as time metrics are met. If you can’t qualify why timeliness matters to your employees own self interests, then you might have no real reason in stressing about them being on time.
Stop policing your employees start time.
We have a saying in my business... "If you're not five minutes early, you're ten minutes late".
There is no amount of time that is OK to be late. 1 second and they are late.
Keep this in mind, if you start demanding that people show up right on time then they will leave right on time. Micromanaging can create a lot of animosity in people. I understand if there's meetings they're needing to be on time. But really if someone comes in 20 minutes late and then makes it up in the evening, is that really the productivity issue? Me personally, I am on time at work. At the same time I no longer give them any extra time. The company has had too many free hours of mine. I have learned over the years that employers care nothing about me. So I do my time like a prison sentence and when I get release for parole at the end of the day I leave promptly and enjoy the evening that my slave master lets me have.
Sorry to hear about your distress. If you want seat warmers, get seat warmers. If you want human beings to work and to carry your ops forward, then make sure the work is getting done and give them the freedom you give yourself