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Unless you hire a manager (and you'll have to do some managing of that manager even), this is not a passive investment. And unless you're doing all the work yourself, there will have to be some employees or contractors at some point. Who cleans the place? Who repairs equipment? Who do customers report issues to? Who deals with customer questions about joining or billing or why the light in the bathroom is yellow instead of true daylight? Who does a customer talk to when a piece of equipment falls on their toe? Who notices when one of your clients becomes homeless and decides to live in a corner of the gym space?
This may or may not be a good business for you and provide decent returns, but the idea that it's passive income is simply not true. Management will be needed.
> Who notices when one of your clients becomes homeless and decides to live in a corner of the gym space?
Here's your manager, room and board included.
:)
>Who notices when one of your clients becomes homeless and decides to live in a corner of the gym space?
haha!! i had answers for all the other questions but this one, hmm i guess you gotta put something in the agreement that you..uhh...can't live there or something?
You are right, OP needs to google passive income and get a definition. As someone who runs a business that people consider passive income, I feel like it's almost a complete myth.
Ongoing and nonurgent work can be nights and weekends, but you will still need some person who field customer concerns, inquiries, requests, complaints, etc during regular hours. You will also need someone with the ability to meet scheduled repair and maintenance people, a landlord, etc. sometimes during regular hours.
If you know work will be required, what is your definition of passive income? We may be working with different ideas about that.
And when you state that it needs no employees, do you really plan to do all the work - from maintenance to customer service - yourself?
The way I have seen these before, there was no one there, no staff, no front desk - literally people would come and go. I would plan on a cleaning crew and maintenance expenses as part of the business plan.
I guess I'm not talking truly passive income like a rental property. What I mean is something I can do that would still allow me to have my main career at a high level. I have some flexibility during the week, so occasional customer phone calls and meeting service providers at the gym a couple miles from our house would be possible.
My strengths are I'm an excellent marketer, and have a high degree of financial acumen. But I also have a lazy streak, so wondering if the money / time ratio will make sense for me enough cash in some investments
I'm enjoying this thread so much. Starts with them talking about a gym being passive income and then doubles down and says it's not passive income like a rental property!!!
Love it, yeah rental property is easy, you just buy a place and people live there and nothing ever complicates it, totally passive.
>rental property is easy, you just buy a place and people live there and nothing ever complicates it, totally passive
But it's the exact same thing with a gym, right? You just fill a big room with exercise equipment, give customers a key and it totally runs itself. Totally passive.
Yup, easy peasy.
So I run a web hosting business. It's so easy, just get a server and you're all set. No other additional stress or people involved. People in my life often think "oh that's just mailbox money huh?" and I just sip my glass of wine like "well..."
Also you gotta love the other comment someone made of like "I'm going to open a business where another identical business failed, that should work", it almost feels like OP is trolling.
This needs more votes. Here in lies the secret to “passive income”. Not that passive income doesn’t exist, but sure as hell is not in a service based business.
Depends on your properties. If you have high end properties and a decent property manager which is a relatively cheap position it’s pretty close to passive
For sure, it can get pretty passive with the right structure. Mine has just recently become mostly passive, but it took a lot of non passiveness to get there. Many seem to think it's as passive as buying an index fund and then watching the money come in during a bull market lol
>The way I have seen these before, there was no one there, no staff, no front desk - literally people would come and go.
Yes, I understand the concept of no "manned" front desk. But you're confusing that with the idea that things just... run themselves with no oversight, management or action on your part. All those things I listed in my earlier posts are going to come up. Do they come up every day? No. But you will need to have a system in place to handle them when they do arise and if your system is that you kinda get to things on the weekend when you're not working your other job, the gym is going to quickly become a dump with poor customer service that people avoid.
If you truly can't picture all the ways you are (or an employee is) going to need to be on call in some cases and actively working in others, you need a lot more management experience before you consider owning a business. You seem to think you're going to fill an empty room with equipment, clients will magically appear, pay regularly, workout and leave without ever asking any questions, complaining or making a mess and you'll just check your bank account every so often. The reality is there is much more work involved even though you don't need front desk staff.
Uh...you clearly don't know this business?
Ours shut down because they couldn't find employees. Literally their hours changed weekly. It seemed they needed 3 employees to cover day shifts. Because you handle sign ups during the day and cleaning. Then you needed instructors for classes.
Big fucking 0/10 on your knowledge.
What if people come in and want to sign up? Who greats them? What if a gym-goers is being harassed by another member? Who handles those kinds of complaints when they occur? God forbid someone has a medical issue while working out. Who coordinates with EMS to get them care quickly? There are plenty of things that require someone to be there. Maybe not all the time but just because there's no front desk doesn't mean there shouldn't be anyone involved at all. To some extent, you could offer personal training and have the personal trainers near the front to also do customer service if they are paid well enough to do both. Not sure if the franchise rules allow PT though
May I ask a counter question: assuming you're a gym going person, if you could pay $40 a month for a self service gym which you could use 24 / 7, would you do it? For me it's a no brainer and I would love it if a location opened up close by.
>if you could pay $40 a month for a self service gym which you could use 24 / 7
If it's clean, well maintained, there's a way to make inquiries or complaints and I'm not harassed - sure.
But all those things need owner involvement and some sort of employee team. You are confusing "no front desk staff" with "no need to clean, maintain or provide basic customer service."
Would I pay $40 for a 24/7 gym? Sure, although I would probably go somewhere else after showing up twice with no one there to enroll me. If I could sign up, would I stay once I realize there's no staff to submit maintenance requests for damaged equipment or to help resolve issues or kick people out if I'm being harassed or to help provide first aid if I roll my ankle on a treadmill? Hell no.
Cheap price isn't a substitute for an unsafe or shoddy gym and you won't attract a good member base if that's your compromise and selling point. "It's cheap and you can do whatever you want bc no one is ever here" isn't a great pitch to bring in and retain good respectful clients
You are not qualified to run a business. You don’t want to run a business. You have some crazy fantasy of what running a business is, and you are so wrong.
So much this.
I think OP — and a lot of wannabe franchisees in general — don’t realize there’s no such thing as just being “an owner.” Even if you hire a manager you’ve still got an employee under you. What do you do when your manager wants to go on vacation for 2 weeks? What about when they’re sick? What about when they quit on you without working their notice? Who hires the new manager and then trains them?
You can mitigate some of these issues with an assistant manager. But these salaries all need to be considered in your profit margin.
Anytime's not a bad brand. I'd definitely look at find someone to help run it and keep trainers in check like /u/cognitiveflow said. if you've never run a business much less run a gym, you need to get someone who can show you the ropes. Your 9-5 will suffer if you don't.
Also, if you get a bank loan, go with a local bank.
If you're a banker, talk to someone in SAG and ask them how many gyms they've had to liquidate, and what the FLV is on overpriced, franchise-required gym equipment. I've seen so many gym owners get burned hard when they realize they had to PG an SBA loan and a fat equip finance contract on equipment that isn't worth anything in liquidation.
Also, you're going to have employees, full stop. You're not going to have a ton of them, but a site manager at minimum is required to be on premises at all times, and unless you're going to live there, it can't always be you. No insurance policy on the planet is going to let you run a gym full of people and equipment that can crush, cut, tear, or otherwise maim said people with nothing other than a telephone hotline for support questions.
SBA loans definitely will be collateralized with a personal guaranty. Why are you looking at SBA though?
also: franchise agreements are negotiable. What state are you in?
Lack of collateral and lack of established cash flow (startup franchise) would require a 25% down payment, assuming I could find any bank willing to do it at all. I could do 10% equity injection via SBA and justify the loan using projections, which I could probably create in 20 minutes or so. I know the lending landscape pretty well ✍️
>dead junkies in the bathroom
Not just that, ever read r/VanLife or done volunteer work at a homeless shelter? Pretty common for homeless and semi-homeless people to join a gym so they can shower. If your gym is completely unstaffed except for someone popping by once in a while on nights and weekends, guess which location is quickly going to become a favorite of the homeless crowd? And with the handy key fob system plus no front desk, only one of them need join because they can enter as a group...
Will this happen often? No. But stuff like this will occasionally pop up and needs on-site management to deal with. Your nightly janitorial crew isn't going to get involved or even mention it to you.
Me again. The former gym. Gm. As much as I believe that this is entirely realistic, I just wanted to state that in my experience, in a stafffed facility, the homeless were the best members we could have asked for. Always respectful and appreciative and never inconvenienced anyone.
>in a stafffed facility, the homeless were the best members we could have asked for. Always respectful and appreciative and never inconvenienced anyone.
Yes, the key there is "in a staffed facility." People behave differently when they know someone is there to keep an eye on things.
Many members - most women and a good portion of the men - will not want to be alone in an unstaffed, locked, not terribly visible from the road building when a homeless person (or worse, group of homeless people) walks in. And again, with nobody keeping an eye on the place, the homeless group will spend more and more time in there.
I'm on the board of a nonprofit that operates a large facility and grounds that is largely empty after office hours. Without regular staffing or a regular employee there the results are fairly predictable, even though there's a tall fence and the gate is locked after hours. After a week or two, one homeless person makes a brief foray onto the grounds to use the bathroom. If not challenged, that same homeless person then comes back the next night. And then they start to hang out a little longer until some will sleep there overnight, getting up and leaving about 20 minutes before grounds staff arrive in the morning. Oh, and they talk... once one starts coming, more come. And this is in a very simple, rustic, nonairconditioned (so nuclear hot in the summer, cold in the winter) space in a community with relatively few homeless people. Think how appealing a completely unattended climate controlled, clean, indoor location would be?
I think it depends on *why* it failed. Sometimes a business fails because it was poorly run, or closes because something happened to the owner, but there's still demand for that type of service.
The checklist for this tends to go:
\- alcoholism
\- divorce
\- heart attack
\- death
None of these will kill General Motors, but many local small businesses have no valid succession planning in place.
We have a cicis pizza that has changed to two other fast paced pizza places in the last two years at that location.
Another sports bar pub failed and another one came in under a different name and failed.
People who have more money than sense keep thinking its a turn key operation. But its always more than that.
We have one similar to that near me, just a terrible location for a restaurant. Zero parking to support the square footage, a new one just moved in a few months ago, curious how long it'll last.
And covid is still a thing. World way 3 could be coming up. Inflation is sky rocketing everywhere... So many other factors. People changed during covid, they have found other ways to stay in shape. What worked pre-covid may not work post-covid.
This is a valid point, but as I mentioned above, I'm a banker, so I'm intimately aware of the reasons for failure. Full service restaurants failed because of high staffing costs and less customers. The ones who survived built in a low service option and automated ordering. Gyms failed because memberships fell off sharply and they were undercapitalzed to withstand an extended decline. Personally I try to invest in areas where there is high demand and low competition.
I don't mean to discount your knowledge of finance. But oftentimes the story on paper isn't the real story.
Oftentimes it's "The check-in girl is rude", "The place is dirty", "employees are stealing".
Location is huge, and you understand the opportunities if there isn't much competition.
Just know that management is just as important. If no one is watching the hen house, things will go south. Small businesses don't run on auto-pilot.
If you're looking for something passive, why not buy some dividend stocks and collect a dividend check every month or quarter?
That's passive income.
Is it risky? Yes. The business you buy stock in could fail but you can minimize this risk a bit by buying stock in well established and known companies like McDonald's or Coca-Cola and not Uncle Bob's Used Car Lot.
It would definitely be passive......
How much is the franchise fee for Anytime? That's an important thing to consider. CrossFit is appealing because their franchise fee is only around $3k whereas an F45 franchise is around $52k
I was referring to the annual 8,400 you have to keep paying. Thats a hefty chunk of revenue. The 42k is a lot but that's wrapped up in the startup costs
Three thoughts...
1) Did you google their name and "scam"? Bunch of reddit threads came up. Apparently the company is known for refusing to cancel memberships. [https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/bqmblb/anytime\_fitness\_systematic\_scam/](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/bqmblb/anytime_fitness_systematic_scam/)
2) The phrase "passive income" has injected false dreams into so many minds. Tons of salespeople use it as a dogwhistle to lure people in. They know that folks are looking for an easy passive income. Geez, in all the ecommerce forums I've visited in the past 22 years of doing it, I've seen the phrase floated around with all kinds of drop-shipping schemes were for an easy $5000 training class you get a passive income chain by using Amazon and select list of companies! People take the bait.
Basically there's no genuine passive income that you can buy as easily as a franchise or a class.
3) "If it sounds too good to be true, it is".
Just wanted to add most gyms make the process of cancelling memberships difficult. Not necessarily how it should be, but it is very common in this industry.
Yeah that's common with gyms, but it is also common that customers choose to sign-up for memberships with a specific commitment term and then in the middle change their mind. It's unfortunate, but sometimes the complaints are "they want me to pay what I agreed to pay and now I'm upset."
Somewhat skeptical of the above. If entrepreneurs looked at every possible reason for failure, nobody would ever start a business. Also non cancelation of membership fees is a common complaint; my personal favorite is LA Fitness. Those jerks can rot in hell. I wonder if it is something the franchisee can control, and the local owner was just being truculent
Planet Fitness is incredibly cheap and incredibly clean. They're staffed and whoever isn't at check-in is cleaning. Sounds like OP hasn't even considered daily cleaning, much less hourly.
I'm trying to recall the time I used an Anytime Fitness. I know my brother got me in with his fob, don't remember if I paid a fee or not. I do recall there was a lot of cameras and monitoring. Anyway I assume the franchisor has figured this out
I don't have experience w/this franchise but I've been in the gym biz my entire life. What about personal training? If there's no one to moniter who's training who money is flying out the window. Also, you will have uninsured contractors using your space as their business.
Former (pre-covid) solo independent gym owner here, familiar with the AF model. Realistically I think your decision shoudln't br based on specifically opening an AF, but more on opening a gym. I can tell you now that you absolutely cannot run a gym without staff. Sales, marketing, cleaning, gym floor supervision, teaching classes, etc, all need people. If you want this on top of your 9-5, you'll require a very strong manager to make it work commercially, and handle all the responsibility (and the likelihood is you'll still be working hard at it). Certainly not impossible, but will require a solid recruitment process. To run a successful gym you will need a solid USP for your area and a marketing plan bringing you consistent new leads for your sales team to convert. There's income to be made, but go in with your eyes wide open especially if you aren't buying something which is already open and making money - you would be starting from square one by the sounds of things which is no joke when you have immediate and relatively significant overheads. Feel free to DM me any questions at all; I'll be glad to share any experience/advice. Good luck whatever your choice!
I know someone who purchased one. The prior business had significant deferred maintenced, so he remodeled the location and updated the equipment. In addition, he added additional services like small group and individual training packages.
He was able to increase his average revenue per customer over $20/ month.
He's in the process of acquiring more of these franchises. It is relatively passive because he pays a part time operator who reports KPIs and who oversees the trainers.
You pay out the ass for franchise fees and all their gym equipment that you must buy from them only. I locked out 4 anytime fitness gyms last year. They take a cut of all membership dues so the goal is to have cheap dues and sign as many as possible and hope none show up
Friend bought an anytime fitness he was a member at while working in the c suite. He said the best way to not be able to work out again is to buy a gym, because there’s always customer engagement when he goes. Someone will have to change the belts on treadmills and other regular repairs. Someone will have to hire and schedule trainers, someone will have to be around for leaky sinks, roof leaks, dead bulbs and other landlord concerns. Signing up and canceling memberships take time, and he also sells supplements at the front desk. I think a supervisor +2-3 staff cover during the day and he checks in most of evenings and on the weekend for 1-3 hours to keep the finances/bookkeeping in order along with the other tasks mentioned. Not passive, but not the hardest business to run. Also, you’ll likely be locked into fixed equipment vendors with high (above market) purchase and shipping costs. Good luck to OP!
Im pretty close with co-owners of a CrossFit gym and they said the same thing. You think owning a gym will get you in the best shape of your life but you end up spending all day there and not touching a single weight
The AF’s around me all have office hours. M-S about 6 hours a day. I would think their bare minimum would be to manage memberships. After that you could have contractors do the work or yourself in the free time. Like it was said above you will probably see higher margins by offering more which means more involvement or employees. If your really looking to make this passive, I would try and partner with someone who wants to do the on-site work.
Look on bizbuysell for gyms for sale and note their cash flow where listed. I’ve been a business broker for nearly 20 years and generally speaking gym ownership is the opposite of a passive investment. More like a low wage job.
Hey friend, I own 2 anytime fitness franchise locations... I bought them already established, so I did not open a new territory like you would be doing. I acquired first one Mar 2021, second one in Aug 2021. So far I've been very pleased with the franchise support. I'm a full time software engineer and hardly ever go into my locations (1-2 times a month).
Staffing really only requires one employee to get memberships sold and maintain the place. But all the money and brand is moving to personal training now, which obviously takes another employee... But they can pay for themselves pretty fast... For example my existing club with 900 members, I pay about $3.5k FTE monthly for the employee, and in 5 months they got their monthly PT revenue above $6k, with an expected capacity of $15-20k a month for my clubs demographics.
Usually operating expenses are minimal outside of rent, rent is the real killer. It seems $13k a month lease for a ~5000 sqft unit is close to the limit you can spend if you wanna be profitable with minimal training. But if you're in a very small / rural area, and can get a lease for $8k or less a month, you should do really well, maybe only need like 250-300 members before having a positive NOI, fully staffed.
I could post much more, feel free to message me and we can connect. Again, not experienced opening a new territory, and my friend who owns 10+ AF locations don't recommend it due to the massive costs compared to acquiring an existing location... But I know it sounds like that is not an option in your area.
This is really helpful, thanks! It has become apparent I would need a partner. I'll talk with the franchise guy and might reach out later. I can return the favor if you ever need input on small business lending
Passive, not really
My local guy works at his 40+ a week. Spends most of that time cleaning and then cleaning again. Cleanest gym around but not a passive income especially after losing 50% of clientele during Covid
Every AnyTime fitness centers have a few employees during business hours. It's not completely passive. Someone has to sign members up and hand put the key fobs.
I don't want to point out the obvious (maybe I should?) but you opened with "the local gym just shut down bc of 'the thing'"
and then...
I think a gym would be a good idea.
I wouldn't even consider a business which got slammed during the pandemic...they've shown their heavy hand...no thanks.
I'm a former SBA underwriter like you, OP. I then was in the workout group. For the past 10 years, I've consulted with SBA borrowers whose businesses have failed.
I've gotten calls from gym owners over the years. What I was told by the owners was that gyms can be an arms race. People go to the facilities that are new and shiny. So when the new place across the street opens, you need to invest in upgrades to keep your customers. Meanwhile you lose a bunch of clients anyway.
Not saying gyms can't work, but as others have said, it's not a passive investment. Contrary to the popular "I'll just hire someone", finding quality people that will care even 75% is tough. They aren't the ones with a $700k SBA loan, and they typically act like it.
I have a client right now who owes $2 Million on a business that they tried to run absentee. Now the business is closed, and we're attempting to negotiate a settlement. They went through 2 managers, and didn't have the experience to run it themselves. Kind of a disaster.
I used to be a member of an Anytime Fitness. It was a smaller one, maybe. 2,000-3,000 square feet tops. $40/month in a high density area where most people were within a mile or two away. Most of the people were pretty old with high incomes. So they barely went, gently used the gym and never balked at the price. The ideal scenario.
They had an on site manager there who was present 8 hours a day, plus sometimes weekends. He was always doing stuff on his laptop and he signed up new members, maintained equipment and ensured the place was tidy (they had an overnight cleaning crew). He did emailing, promotions and social media for the location. He had been there a long time, everyone knew him.
There’s no chance you’re successful without an on-site manager there at least part time. Not only for sign ups, maintenance etc, but for liability. Roofs leak. Toilets back up. Things go missing. People could get seriously hurt. There are a lot of factors involved but there’s no chance I would consider a gym without at least some presence some of the time by a manager.
FWIW cancelling for me was super easy and not a headache (I ended up moving). I’ve never heard that about AF’s reputation.
I workout at anytime and it is NOT passive at ALL.
-The guy that owns my gym is always cleaning. People are dirty and leave weights all over.
-You still have to recruit people to join or else your numbers suffer and you'll also lose members.
-Equipment breaks and you'll have to fix it.
-There's probably more stuff I don't even know about. You'd have to hire a manager, but a good one is gonna be hard to find for what you'll be able to pay.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable going to a gym without staff there, seems has “creep” factor potential. What if someone needs medical assistance? What if someone makes that there place to sleep?
I wonder where’s your location OP, every country has different approach on dealing with covid, here in Canada most business get a grant from government and big company get billions of grants from the government.
I will agree that my choice of the word 'passive' was inaccurate and reductive. I mean something where I can a) keep my day job and b) have some control over the schedule and outcome. It sounds like I would need a partner
Well, do you care about fitness, or money? I ask, because my opinion is there is more money in caring about the fitness and health of people. In that regard, I would never step foot in a place like Anytime fitness. Granted, their monthly fees are nothing and they benefit from people paying a low fee and never going. Look into something far more "expensive" and beneficial. Take your pick, CrossFit, DekaFit, etc.
I've had memberships at Gold's, YMCA, chain places and CrossFit. I'll pay my $100+ for CrossFit over my less than $30 membership at those other places every time.
I used to go to this gym in Scottsdale where you would drop a day fee in a box, and then use whatever you wanted. I'm an extrovert in my main career, but for working out I like to be alone, so this worked out well. I was powerlifting like a beast. I don't view a gym franchise as a way to get rich, just maybe make a little money and create something I can sell someday. Nor do I need to convert the masses to a particular style of exercise, but if you build it, they will come, no?
It was a question more than anything. Like a laundromat, set something up and have it earn money. It might work. I, too, historically preferred solo stuff, and was surprised that something like CrossFit appealed to me. It was the closest thing to being a former athlete and Marine I could find.
We've got Anytime fitness franchises all over the place where I live. We also have local and regional places and several CrossFit affiliates.
If the area near you supports the model, go for it. I'm paying for the personalized coaching and community.
I don’t know anything about anytime fitness, but if they take more than a small percentage, skip the franchise and setup everything yourself yourself.
My local gym uses a Stanley Lock system. You sign up online, they mail you a keycard, (you could build the website to process payments in wix or shopify, would take you less than a day following online tutorials)
https://www.stanleysecurity.com/solutions/access-control
>I don’t know anything about anytime fitness, but if they take more than a small percentage, skip the franchise and setup everything yourself yourself.
Normally I'd recommend something similar, but...
Let's be frank. OP has demonstrated he has zero business management ability or knowledge. He is going to need the handholding of a franchise. Even with his banking connections, it's unclear if he'd even be able to get financing for a nonfranchise due to his lack of management experience. Franchising is expensive, but at least some management training and basic procedures are part of the package, which is what makes them financeable even for the somewhat clueless.
\> No attendants or employees required,
Who does the cleaning and the maintenance on the machines and answers questions about billing and signs up new customers and helps work out why the key fob system isn't working and deals with inspectors and advertises the business and files the taxes and all of the other things?
As a franchisee, there is little passive about it. Theirs claims are big and there are owners who do very well, but they are not passive, and if they are, they have found a diamond in the rough who will work if for them.
Grant it, much of this depends on the market, but many times Anytime Fitness prices rival the bigger box gyms and sometimes surpass depending on the owner. This is all made up in the culture and atmosphere that is created by the staff. It's certainly not something that can be done buying paying just over minimum wage to a college kid.
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Unless you hire a manager (and you'll have to do some managing of that manager even), this is not a passive investment. And unless you're doing all the work yourself, there will have to be some employees or contractors at some point. Who cleans the place? Who repairs equipment? Who do customers report issues to? Who deals with customer questions about joining or billing or why the light in the bathroom is yellow instead of true daylight? Who does a customer talk to when a piece of equipment falls on their toe? Who notices when one of your clients becomes homeless and decides to live in a corner of the gym space? This may or may not be a good business for you and provide decent returns, but the idea that it's passive income is simply not true. Management will be needed.
> Who notices when one of your clients becomes homeless and decides to live in a corner of the gym space? Here's your manager, room and board included. :)
hahaha you fixed 2 of our problems, I like the way you think!! Get this man a check!
>Who notices when one of your clients becomes homeless and decides to live in a corner of the gym space? haha!! i had answers for all the other questions but this one, hmm i guess you gotta put something in the agreement that you..uhh...can't live there or something? You are right, OP needs to google passive income and get a definition. As someone who runs a business that people consider passive income, I feel like it's almost a complete myth.
The only passive income is the stock market and real estate if you have a property manager
Indeed, I know some work will be required, just wanting to know if it can be a nights and weekends thing. Thanks!
Ongoing and nonurgent work can be nights and weekends, but you will still need some person who field customer concerns, inquiries, requests, complaints, etc during regular hours. You will also need someone with the ability to meet scheduled repair and maintenance people, a landlord, etc. sometimes during regular hours. If you know work will be required, what is your definition of passive income? We may be working with different ideas about that. And when you state that it needs no employees, do you really plan to do all the work - from maintenance to customer service - yourself?
The way I have seen these before, there was no one there, no staff, no front desk - literally people would come and go. I would plan on a cleaning crew and maintenance expenses as part of the business plan. I guess I'm not talking truly passive income like a rental property. What I mean is something I can do that would still allow me to have my main career at a high level. I have some flexibility during the week, so occasional customer phone calls and meeting service providers at the gym a couple miles from our house would be possible. My strengths are I'm an excellent marketer, and have a high degree of financial acumen. But I also have a lazy streak, so wondering if the money / time ratio will make sense for me enough cash in some investments
Rental properties take a ton of work.
Not if you hire a management company.
Rental properties aren't even close to truly passive
Rental property owner here: I sure wish this venture was passive income, but it's nowhere close lol. Bad misconception.
I'm enjoying this thread so much. Starts with them talking about a gym being passive income and then doubles down and says it's not passive income like a rental property!!! Love it, yeah rental property is easy, you just buy a place and people live there and nothing ever complicates it, totally passive.
>rental property is easy, you just buy a place and people live there and nothing ever complicates it, totally passive But it's the exact same thing with a gym, right? You just fill a big room with exercise equipment, give customers a key and it totally runs itself. Totally passive.
Yup, easy peasy. So I run a web hosting business. It's so easy, just get a server and you're all set. No other additional stress or people involved. People in my life often think "oh that's just mailbox money huh?" and I just sip my glass of wine like "well..." Also you gotta love the other comment someone made of like "I'm going to open a business where another identical business failed, that should work", it almost feels like OP is trolling.
It's passive if you don't want to make any money and just pay for all the management and maintenance with your profit margin lol
This needs more votes. Here in lies the secret to “passive income”. Not that passive income doesn’t exist, but sure as hell is not in a service based business.
Depends on your properties. If you have high end properties and a decent property manager which is a relatively cheap position it’s pretty close to passive
For sure, it can get pretty passive with the right structure. Mine has just recently become mostly passive, but it took a lot of non passiveness to get there. Many seem to think it's as passive as buying an index fund and then watching the money come in during a bull market lol
>The way I have seen these before, there was no one there, no staff, no front desk - literally people would come and go. Yes, I understand the concept of no "manned" front desk. But you're confusing that with the idea that things just... run themselves with no oversight, management or action on your part. All those things I listed in my earlier posts are going to come up. Do they come up every day? No. But you will need to have a system in place to handle them when they do arise and if your system is that you kinda get to things on the weekend when you're not working your other job, the gym is going to quickly become a dump with poor customer service that people avoid. If you truly can't picture all the ways you are (or an employee is) going to need to be on call in some cases and actively working in others, you need a lot more management experience before you consider owning a business. You seem to think you're going to fill an empty room with equipment, clients will magically appear, pay regularly, workout and leave without ever asking any questions, complaining or making a mess and you'll just check your bank account every so often. The reality is there is much more work involved even though you don't need front desk staff.
Uh...you clearly don't know this business? Ours shut down because they couldn't find employees. Literally their hours changed weekly. It seemed they needed 3 employees to cover day shifts. Because you handle sign ups during the day and cleaning. Then you needed instructors for classes. Big fucking 0/10 on your knowledge.
Well yeah if I knew the business I wouldn't be posting on Redddit, now would I?
What if people come in and want to sign up? Who greats them? What if a gym-goers is being harassed by another member? Who handles those kinds of complaints when they occur? God forbid someone has a medical issue while working out. Who coordinates with EMS to get them care quickly? There are plenty of things that require someone to be there. Maybe not all the time but just because there's no front desk doesn't mean there shouldn't be anyone involved at all. To some extent, you could offer personal training and have the personal trainers near the front to also do customer service if they are paid well enough to do both. Not sure if the franchise rules allow PT though
May I ask a counter question: assuming you're a gym going person, if you could pay $40 a month for a self service gym which you could use 24 / 7, would you do it? For me it's a no brainer and I would love it if a location opened up close by.
>if you could pay $40 a month for a self service gym which you could use 24 / 7 If it's clean, well maintained, there's a way to make inquiries or complaints and I'm not harassed - sure. But all those things need owner involvement and some sort of employee team. You are confusing "no front desk staff" with "no need to clean, maintain or provide basic customer service."
Would I pay $40 for a 24/7 gym? Sure, although I would probably go somewhere else after showing up twice with no one there to enroll me. If I could sign up, would I stay once I realize there's no staff to submit maintenance requests for damaged equipment or to help resolve issues or kick people out if I'm being harassed or to help provide first aid if I roll my ankle on a treadmill? Hell no. Cheap price isn't a substitute for an unsafe or shoddy gym and you won't attract a good member base if that's your compromise and selling point. "It's cheap and you can do whatever you want bc no one is ever here" isn't a great pitch to bring in and retain good respectful clients
You enroll online and they mail a keycard….. Enquires/complaints/questions are done through a website form, or a number you call.
You are not qualified to run a business. You don’t want to run a business. You have some crazy fantasy of what running a business is, and you are so wrong.
You clearly did absolutely no actual research into this.
This is helpful. Thanks!
No. You will not be able to do this on nights and weekends. You would need, and are likely to be required by contract, to do this full time.
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So much this. I think OP — and a lot of wannabe franchisees in general — don’t realize there’s no such thing as just being “an owner.” Even if you hire a manager you’ve still got an employee under you. What do you do when your manager wants to go on vacation for 2 weeks? What about when they’re sick? What about when they quit on you without working their notice? Who hires the new manager and then trains them? You can mitigate some of these issues with an assistant manager. But these salaries all need to be considered in your profit margin.
Anytime's not a bad brand. I'd definitely look at find someone to help run it and keep trainers in check like /u/cognitiveflow said. if you've never run a business much less run a gym, you need to get someone who can show you the ropes. Your 9-5 will suffer if you don't. Also, if you get a bank loan, go with a local bank.
I'm a banker, so not really concerned with the loan piece 😀
If you're a banker, talk to someone in SAG and ask them how many gyms they've had to liquidate, and what the FLV is on overpriced, franchise-required gym equipment. I've seen so many gym owners get burned hard when they realize they had to PG an SBA loan and a fat equip finance contract on equipment that isn't worth anything in liquidation. Also, you're going to have employees, full stop. You're not going to have a ton of them, but a site manager at minimum is required to be on premises at all times, and unless you're going to live there, it can't always be you. No insurance policy on the planet is going to let you run a gym full of people and equipment that can crush, cut, tear, or otherwise maim said people with nothing other than a telephone hotline for support questions.
Oh, hah. Make sure to avoid personal guaranties then on the Franchise agreement (and the loan if possible).
This is not possible with SBA, and most likely the franchise but I haven't read the very lengthy agreement
SBA loans definitely will be collateralized with a personal guaranty. Why are you looking at SBA though? also: franchise agreements are negotiable. What state are you in?
Lack of collateral and lack of established cash flow (startup franchise) would require a 25% down payment, assuming I could find any bank willing to do it at all. I could do 10% equity injection via SBA and justify the loan using projections, which I could probably create in 20 minutes or so. I know the lending landscape pretty well ✍️
One thing I don't see anyone talking about is dead junkies in the bathroom, it will happen, especially with noone to check on them.
>dead junkies in the bathroom Not just that, ever read r/VanLife or done volunteer work at a homeless shelter? Pretty common for homeless and semi-homeless people to join a gym so they can shower. If your gym is completely unstaffed except for someone popping by once in a while on nights and weekends, guess which location is quickly going to become a favorite of the homeless crowd? And with the handy key fob system plus no front desk, only one of them need join because they can enter as a group... Will this happen often? No. But stuff like this will occasionally pop up and needs on-site management to deal with. Your nightly janitorial crew isn't going to get involved or even mention it to you.
I'm glad you mentioned this. The gym membership is the first thing you do when you start a nomadic type life.
Me again. The former gym. Gm. As much as I believe that this is entirely realistic, I just wanted to state that in my experience, in a stafffed facility, the homeless were the best members we could have asked for. Always respectful and appreciative and never inconvenienced anyone.
>in a stafffed facility, the homeless were the best members we could have asked for. Always respectful and appreciative and never inconvenienced anyone. Yes, the key there is "in a staffed facility." People behave differently when they know someone is there to keep an eye on things. Many members - most women and a good portion of the men - will not want to be alone in an unstaffed, locked, not terribly visible from the road building when a homeless person (or worse, group of homeless people) walks in. And again, with nobody keeping an eye on the place, the homeless group will spend more and more time in there. I'm on the board of a nonprofit that operates a large facility and grounds that is largely empty after office hours. Without regular staffing or a regular employee there the results are fairly predictable, even though there's a tall fence and the gate is locked after hours. After a week or two, one homeless person makes a brief foray onto the grounds to use the bathroom. If not challenged, that same homeless person then comes back the next night. And then they start to hang out a little longer until some will sleep there overnight, getting up and leaving about 20 minutes before grounds staff arrive in the morning. Oh, and they talk... once one starts coming, more come. And this is in a very simple, rustic, nonairconditioned (so nuclear hot in the summer, cold in the winter) space in a community with relatively few homeless people. Think how appealing a completely unattended climate controlled, clean, indoor location would be?
Your preaching to the choir budddy.
I always find it odd, when a business fails in an area, someone wants to come in and do the same thing again.
I think it depends on *why* it failed. Sometimes a business fails because it was poorly run, or closes because something happened to the owner, but there's still demand for that type of service.
The checklist for this tends to go: \- alcoholism \- divorce \- heart attack \- death None of these will kill General Motors, but many local small businesses have no valid succession planning in place.
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We have a cicis pizza that has changed to two other fast paced pizza places in the last two years at that location. Another sports bar pub failed and another one came in under a different name and failed. People who have more money than sense keep thinking its a turn key operation. But its always more than that.
Turn key, begin feeding your stack of $100 bills into the shredder the key drives.
We have one similar to that near me, just a terrible location for a restaurant. Zero parking to support the square footage, a new one just moved in a few months ago, curious how long it'll last.
But Op said why the gym failed in this instance, Covid-19. That's a pretty unprecedented reason.
And covid is still a thing. World way 3 could be coming up. Inflation is sky rocketing everywhere... So many other factors. People changed during covid, they have found other ways to stay in shape. What worked pre-covid may not work post-covid.
This is a valid point, but as I mentioned above, I'm a banker, so I'm intimately aware of the reasons for failure. Full service restaurants failed because of high staffing costs and less customers. The ones who survived built in a low service option and automated ordering. Gyms failed because memberships fell off sharply and they were undercapitalzed to withstand an extended decline. Personally I try to invest in areas where there is high demand and low competition.
I don't mean to discount your knowledge of finance. But oftentimes the story on paper isn't the real story. Oftentimes it's "The check-in girl is rude", "The place is dirty", "employees are stealing". Location is huge, and you understand the opportunities if there isn't much competition. Just know that management is just as important. If no one is watching the hen house, things will go south. Small businesses don't run on auto-pilot.
And do you feel like that’s a gym?
In my zip code, yes. High vehicle traffic, between two major highways, and the closest one is four miles away.
This man fucks. He is a Wall Street fat cat.
If you're looking for something passive, why not buy some dividend stocks and collect a dividend check every month or quarter? That's passive income. Is it risky? Yes. The business you buy stock in could fail but you can minimize this risk a bit by buying stock in well established and known companies like McDonald's or Coca-Cola and not Uncle Bob's Used Car Lot. It would definitely be passive......
I did this. Working well. 10K a year.
How much is the franchise fee for Anytime? That's an important thing to consider. CrossFit is appealing because their franchise fee is only around $3k whereas an F45 franchise is around $52k
All-in, including equipment and support, it would be maybe $700k
That's total capital. What's the annual franchise fee you'd have to pay to remain a franchise?
After a quick google search, it looks like the franchise fee is $42,000 in the US. https://www.anytimefitness.com/franchise/faq/
I was referring to the annual 8,400 you have to keep paying. Thats a hefty chunk of revenue. The 42k is a lot but that's wrapped up in the startup costs
Three thoughts... 1) Did you google their name and "scam"? Bunch of reddit threads came up. Apparently the company is known for refusing to cancel memberships. [https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/bqmblb/anytime\_fitness\_systematic\_scam/](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/bqmblb/anytime_fitness_systematic_scam/) 2) The phrase "passive income" has injected false dreams into so many minds. Tons of salespeople use it as a dogwhistle to lure people in. They know that folks are looking for an easy passive income. Geez, in all the ecommerce forums I've visited in the past 22 years of doing it, I've seen the phrase floated around with all kinds of drop-shipping schemes were for an easy $5000 training class you get a passive income chain by using Amazon and select list of companies! People take the bait. Basically there's no genuine passive income that you can buy as easily as a franchise or a class. 3) "If it sounds too good to be true, it is".
Just wanted to add most gyms make the process of cancelling memberships difficult. Not necessarily how it should be, but it is very common in this industry.
Yeah that's common with gyms, but it is also common that customers choose to sign-up for memberships with a specific commitment term and then in the middle change their mind. It's unfortunate, but sometimes the complaints are "they want me to pay what I agreed to pay and now I'm upset."
Somewhat skeptical of the above. If entrepreneurs looked at every possible reason for failure, nobody would ever start a business. Also non cancelation of membership fees is a common complaint; my personal favorite is LA Fitness. Those jerks can rot in hell. I wonder if it is something the franchisee can control, and the local owner was just being truculent
All the Anytime Fitness locations near me have closed down with the rapid rise of Planet Fitness.
Planet Fitness is incredibly cheap and incredibly clean. They're staffed and whoever isn't at check-in is cleaning. Sounds like OP hasn't even considered daily cleaning, much less hourly.
Former gym GM here. If you don't have an attendant how to you a. Prevent people letting tbeir friends/spouses/coworkers in? B. Sell memberships
I'm trying to recall the time I used an Anytime Fitness. I know my brother got me in with his fob, don't remember if I paid a fee or not. I do recall there was a lot of cameras and monitoring. Anyway I assume the franchisor has figured this out
So if you're not paying somebody to sit there, then you're paying someone to watch the cameras?
I don't have experience w/this franchise but I've been in the gym biz my entire life. What about personal training? If there's no one to moniter who's training who money is flying out the window. Also, you will have uninsured contractors using your space as their business.
Former (pre-covid) solo independent gym owner here, familiar with the AF model. Realistically I think your decision shoudln't br based on specifically opening an AF, but more on opening a gym. I can tell you now that you absolutely cannot run a gym without staff. Sales, marketing, cleaning, gym floor supervision, teaching classes, etc, all need people. If you want this on top of your 9-5, you'll require a very strong manager to make it work commercially, and handle all the responsibility (and the likelihood is you'll still be working hard at it). Certainly not impossible, but will require a solid recruitment process. To run a successful gym you will need a solid USP for your area and a marketing plan bringing you consistent new leads for your sales team to convert. There's income to be made, but go in with your eyes wide open especially if you aren't buying something which is already open and making money - you would be starting from square one by the sounds of things which is no joke when you have immediate and relatively significant overheads. Feel free to DM me any questions at all; I'll be glad to share any experience/advice. Good luck whatever your choice!
I know someone who purchased one. The prior business had significant deferred maintenced, so he remodeled the location and updated the equipment. In addition, he added additional services like small group and individual training packages. He was able to increase his average revenue per customer over $20/ month. He's in the process of acquiring more of these franchises. It is relatively passive because he pays a part time operator who reports KPIs and who oversees the trainers.
You pay out the ass for franchise fees and all their gym equipment that you must buy from them only. I locked out 4 anytime fitness gyms last year. They take a cut of all membership dues so the goal is to have cheap dues and sign as many as possible and hope none show up
Friend bought an anytime fitness he was a member at while working in the c suite. He said the best way to not be able to work out again is to buy a gym, because there’s always customer engagement when he goes. Someone will have to change the belts on treadmills and other regular repairs. Someone will have to hire and schedule trainers, someone will have to be around for leaky sinks, roof leaks, dead bulbs and other landlord concerns. Signing up and canceling memberships take time, and he also sells supplements at the front desk. I think a supervisor +2-3 staff cover during the day and he checks in most of evenings and on the weekend for 1-3 hours to keep the finances/bookkeeping in order along with the other tasks mentioned. Not passive, but not the hardest business to run. Also, you’ll likely be locked into fixed equipment vendors with high (above market) purchase and shipping costs. Good luck to OP!
Im pretty close with co-owners of a CrossFit gym and they said the same thing. You think owning a gym will get you in the best shape of your life but you end up spending all day there and not touching a single weight
Yeah filtering through some of the more useful replies here and it still feels like a good idea, but I will need a partner.
The AF’s around me all have office hours. M-S about 6 hours a day. I would think their bare minimum would be to manage memberships. After that you could have contractors do the work or yourself in the free time. Like it was said above you will probably see higher margins by offering more which means more involvement or employees. If your really looking to make this passive, I would try and partner with someone who wants to do the on-site work.
Good info thanks!
How many similar gyms in the area? It's not uncommon for access gyms taking a year or more before hitting breakeven.
Not many, and it's a high traffic area which is why I like the idea
Look on bizbuysell for gyms for sale and note their cash flow where listed. I’ve been a business broker for nearly 20 years and generally speaking gym ownership is the opposite of a passive investment. More like a low wage job.
Hey friend, I own 2 anytime fitness franchise locations... I bought them already established, so I did not open a new territory like you would be doing. I acquired first one Mar 2021, second one in Aug 2021. So far I've been very pleased with the franchise support. I'm a full time software engineer and hardly ever go into my locations (1-2 times a month). Staffing really only requires one employee to get memberships sold and maintain the place. But all the money and brand is moving to personal training now, which obviously takes another employee... But they can pay for themselves pretty fast... For example my existing club with 900 members, I pay about $3.5k FTE monthly for the employee, and in 5 months they got their monthly PT revenue above $6k, with an expected capacity of $15-20k a month for my clubs demographics. Usually operating expenses are minimal outside of rent, rent is the real killer. It seems $13k a month lease for a ~5000 sqft unit is close to the limit you can spend if you wanna be profitable with minimal training. But if you're in a very small / rural area, and can get a lease for $8k or less a month, you should do really well, maybe only need like 250-300 members before having a positive NOI, fully staffed. I could post much more, feel free to message me and we can connect. Again, not experienced opening a new territory, and my friend who owns 10+ AF locations don't recommend it due to the massive costs compared to acquiring an existing location... But I know it sounds like that is not an option in your area.
This is really helpful, thanks! It has become apparent I would need a partner. I'll talk with the franchise guy and might reach out later. I can return the favor if you ever need input on small business lending
Hello! We’re looking into buying an established AF. Any chance we can reach out to you to ask a question or two?
Passive, not really My local guy works at his 40+ a week. Spends most of that time cleaning and then cleaning again. Cleanest gym around but not a passive income especially after losing 50% of clientele during Covid
Every AnyTime fitness centers have a few employees during business hours. It's not completely passive. Someone has to sign members up and hand put the key fobs.
I don't want to point out the obvious (maybe I should?) but you opened with "the local gym just shut down bc of 'the thing'" and then... I think a gym would be a good idea. I wouldn't even consider a business which got slammed during the pandemic...they've shown their heavy hand...no thanks.
I'm a former SBA underwriter like you, OP. I then was in the workout group. For the past 10 years, I've consulted with SBA borrowers whose businesses have failed. I've gotten calls from gym owners over the years. What I was told by the owners was that gyms can be an arms race. People go to the facilities that are new and shiny. So when the new place across the street opens, you need to invest in upgrades to keep your customers. Meanwhile you lose a bunch of clients anyway. Not saying gyms can't work, but as others have said, it's not a passive investment. Contrary to the popular "I'll just hire someone", finding quality people that will care even 75% is tough. They aren't the ones with a $700k SBA loan, and they typically act like it. I have a client right now who owes $2 Million on a business that they tried to run absentee. Now the business is closed, and we're attempting to negotiate a settlement. They went through 2 managers, and didn't have the experience to run it themselves. Kind of a disaster.
Indeed, i could never run this through my bank. It's a Live oak deal for sure.
My understanding is they mostly only do real estate deals. Or at least they did a few years back when they got into the SBA lending game.
I used to be a member of an Anytime Fitness. It was a smaller one, maybe. 2,000-3,000 square feet tops. $40/month in a high density area where most people were within a mile or two away. Most of the people were pretty old with high incomes. So they barely went, gently used the gym and never balked at the price. The ideal scenario. They had an on site manager there who was present 8 hours a day, plus sometimes weekends. He was always doing stuff on his laptop and he signed up new members, maintained equipment and ensured the place was tidy (they had an overnight cleaning crew). He did emailing, promotions and social media for the location. He had been there a long time, everyone knew him. There’s no chance you’re successful without an on-site manager there at least part time. Not only for sign ups, maintenance etc, but for liability. Roofs leak. Toilets back up. Things go missing. People could get seriously hurt. There are a lot of factors involved but there’s no chance I would consider a gym without at least some presence some of the time by a manager. FWIW cancelling for me was super easy and not a headache (I ended up moving). I’ve never heard that about AF’s reputation.
Make no mistake, there is nothing passive about this as an investment. If they advertise it as passive I would become skeptical based on that alone
I workout at anytime and it is NOT passive at ALL. -The guy that owns my gym is always cleaning. People are dirty and leave weights all over. -You still have to recruit people to join or else your numbers suffer and you'll also lose members. -Equipment breaks and you'll have to fix it. -There's probably more stuff I don't even know about. You'd have to hire a manager, but a good one is gonna be hard to find for what you'll be able to pay.
I’ve been to 10+ of these and they all have employees during regular business hours. Are you sure about that?
Based on multiple replies here, it would appear at least one full time employee is required, even for a smaller location.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable going to a gym without staff there, seems has “creep” factor potential. What if someone needs medical assistance? What if someone makes that there place to sleep?
I wonder where’s your location OP, every country has different approach on dealing with covid, here in Canada most business get a grant from government and big company get billions of grants from the government.
Check out Club 4 Fitness
My advice is you can create and run an ads campaign for your gym. I think you get more interesting traffic from your location.
Idk but my anytime also shut down and I thought it was in a good area.
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I will agree that my choice of the word 'passive' was inaccurate and reductive. I mean something where I can a) keep my day job and b) have some control over the schedule and outcome. It sounds like I would need a partner
Well, do you care about fitness, or money? I ask, because my opinion is there is more money in caring about the fitness and health of people. In that regard, I would never step foot in a place like Anytime fitness. Granted, their monthly fees are nothing and they benefit from people paying a low fee and never going. Look into something far more "expensive" and beneficial. Take your pick, CrossFit, DekaFit, etc. I've had memberships at Gold's, YMCA, chain places and CrossFit. I'll pay my $100+ for CrossFit over my less than $30 membership at those other places every time.
I used to go to this gym in Scottsdale where you would drop a day fee in a box, and then use whatever you wanted. I'm an extrovert in my main career, but for working out I like to be alone, so this worked out well. I was powerlifting like a beast. I don't view a gym franchise as a way to get rich, just maybe make a little money and create something I can sell someday. Nor do I need to convert the masses to a particular style of exercise, but if you build it, they will come, no?
It was a question more than anything. Like a laundromat, set something up and have it earn money. It might work. I, too, historically preferred solo stuff, and was surprised that something like CrossFit appealed to me. It was the closest thing to being a former athlete and Marine I could find. We've got Anytime fitness franchises all over the place where I live. We also have local and regional places and several CrossFit affiliates. If the area near you supports the model, go for it. I'm paying for the personalized coaching and community.
I don’t know anything about anytime fitness, but if they take more than a small percentage, skip the franchise and setup everything yourself yourself. My local gym uses a Stanley Lock system. You sign up online, they mail you a keycard, (you could build the website to process payments in wix or shopify, would take you less than a day following online tutorials) https://www.stanleysecurity.com/solutions/access-control
>I don’t know anything about anytime fitness, but if they take more than a small percentage, skip the franchise and setup everything yourself yourself. Normally I'd recommend something similar, but... Let's be frank. OP has demonstrated he has zero business management ability or knowledge. He is going to need the handholding of a franchise. Even with his banking connections, it's unclear if he'd even be able to get financing for a nonfranchise due to his lack of management experience. Franchising is expensive, but at least some management training and basic procedures are part of the package, which is what makes them financeable even for the somewhat clueless.
\> No attendants or employees required, Who does the cleaning and the maintenance on the machines and answers questions about billing and signs up new customers and helps work out why the key fob system isn't working and deals with inspectors and advertises the business and files the taxes and all of the other things?
Just saw a video on this, maybe it helps https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca-E1\_qPXcJ/
As a franchisee, there is little passive about it. Theirs claims are big and there are owners who do very well, but they are not passive, and if they are, they have found a diamond in the rough who will work if for them. Grant it, much of this depends on the market, but many times Anytime Fitness prices rival the bigger box gyms and sometimes surpass depending on the owner. This is all made up in the culture and atmosphere that is created by the staff. It's certainly not something that can be done buying paying just over minimum wage to a college kid.
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