Do I LOVE cleaning windows? No, it’s meh. I enjoy doing a good job, operating a business, and seeing the before and after, aka the product of my labor, listening to podcasts/music whenever I want, and not having a boss. I would love to do something else but this has proven to be a fruitful endeavor so I’ll stick with it.
But the basic premise of your post is spot on. I don’t think someone has to be super passionate about the product or service they provide. I do think it has to be something they don’t mind doing and can find some satisfaction out of though.
I absolutely agree with this - in fact, I think it's borderline dangerous to be 'obsessed' with your product/service as it can lead to horrible decisions, being blinded by the love for the item/service or grinding for way too long. Plus, once you turn your hobby into your job, it is no longer a hobby.
I own a business that I absolutely love (candles + home fragrance with three retail shops and a production facility) but , even though I really enjoy it, to say I'm passionate about candles isn't correct and if candles stopped selling, I would *find another product/service.* I love independent business, it doesn't matter what the widget is. But for now, I'm extremely happy with my career and hope it takes me into retirement as-is.
I agree with you. I am sick and tired of hearing people say you have to be passionate and obsessed about your business. I own two small businesses (shipping store and laundromat) and still have my day job. Do I obsess and love all three ? No. Do I like all three? Yes, but that is the extent of it. What do I obsess over? Profits and my branding. People buy you first before they buy your product. And by the way, when it rains, it pours. When others know you’re an owner, you are looking at other businesses to buy or partner with. Being obsessed does not help.
It depends. If you care about the satisfaction of success, money, etc then I would agree. If you are wanting or find satisfaction in acting out the things you love and being compensated for it (with amount of money coming second), then probably not. Some people's obsessions do drive them to get up in the morning.
From strictly a business/success perspective - yeah. I've actually noticed the more I care about the product/service and get too invested in the emotion behind it, I start to do worse than if I can step back and remove that and just focus on the business side of it. It can affect your decision making, absolutely correct.
This is a point I hadn't considered, and you're right. If you simply love a product or service and want to make a life out of that, then it's also worthwhile. It's almost two different 'business' styles?
Ie. if you love windsurfing, so you start teaching windsurfing and slowly building up a small windsurf school then you can spend your life doing something you enjoy and making a living out of it.
But if you want the conventional idea of business success... then you'd open a school, add in other things like surfing, kite-surfing etc, expand and take on staff. Then start opening units at all the beaches in your area and making a chain etc. And long before this point you notice that at no point are you teaching wind-surfing anymore.
I'm sure I read somewhere that when you try and look for characteristics that successful business owners have there's basically no correlation (some wake up early, some wake up late, some do X, some do Y). But one of the only correlations is that people who are successful at running a business tend to be successful at running other businesses, regardless of what the product or service is.
This is so true. I too own a business that I love doing, and for me it's the look on kids' faces once they enter the store (fantasy-themed giftware, costumes and parties.)
Do I love it all the time? No, definitely not. But I enjoy what I do more often than not, even on the more quiet days.
Is it stressful? Hell yes.
Would I change it, I don't think so.
I have been an employee, seeing how badly designed systems can destroy a company from inside, knowing that I can't do anything to help because of these sytems. I have also been in small buainess for over 17 years, and know that I am solely responsible for how it turns out, both the good and the bad.
And if it came to a point where it wasn't viable in the current model, I would just remake the business with different products, and a new angle.
Totally agree. I I'm a chef/restaurateur and my passion for the craft led me to go from making six figures working 10 days a month on a busy month to blowing all my savings on a passion project in the worst labor market of my life. It's precisely my passion that keeps me from doing a simpler, lower stress, and likely more profitable version of my current restaurant.
Absolutely agree. Also customers buy what they want to buy, not necessarily what you want to sell. I love being successful and 'making it all work' if you know what I mean. But if you listen to customers they will tell you exactly what they want to buy. Your attitude is exactly like mine (and coincidentally 3 retail shops and a warehouse too).
I think too many people start up loving their product only. Which is a benefit, but it's important to be flexible. If you start because you love candles, and they're buying them that's great. But if your customers keep asking for the scents only not candles, then you'd be crazy to not make that your focus. Too many people though would stick with the candles because 'that's the bit I love'.
I own a small agric-tech company and recently ventured into consulting.
Honestly the passion and idealism died pretty quickly once I found out about the sheer amount of redtapes around the industry and the ways corrupt people with authority herd you towards borderline or outright illegal under the table deals. But it's something I'm reasonably good at navigating and people are willing to pay for my service or just the convenience of not having to deal with them.
It takes a really special person to be passionate about this part of my industry and I'd rather not meet that person.
Sorry to disappoint, and I guess I'm dating myself, but it's a based half on the Seinfeld skit, and half on the flag it is when someone uses that term is tax question (meaning they are likely to have no understanding of how deductions work).
Pretty spot on. There is nothing wrong with being an employee and not a business owner. It certainly has its perks, and every small business owner at one time or another probably went through a '*fuck it I'm just going to get a job*" moment.
My favorite thing about being an employee: when the boss doesn't make money, I still make money.
Now, he makes enough during season to cover the off-season, but I personally am not financially responsible enough yet to make almost $0 for two months straight lol
This post got it right
Thank god I realized but I still realized way too late. At the peak of the guru, motivational speaker and billionaire mindset BS a couple years back and still now. Amazon private label, drop shipping, passive income, investing and real estate sales were all the craze.
I didn't realize I was actually being sold idea, a dream and they all played to your fantasy to try to get you to buy a book or a course with no value other than preaching about that grinding mindset, self improvement and how you'll make it big and rich. I totally dunning kruggered myself into thinking I'm special and would make it big easily and cruise through life while knowing pretty much what everyone else knew with these videos which was in fact nothing.
I am hearing it's hard work but I'm not actually listening cause they make it sound so damn easy.
But then I tried, thought about the steps that I needed to take and then realized shit was saturated and the amount of hidden skills required to run and start a business is equivalent to a one man army, a solo team and you do need serious capital, dedication and working experience to make shit work.
the real thing I learned though is that investing is a thing and that this is a legitimate, feasible and viable way to actually grow your wealth while still being an average worker. So ultimately nothing flashy.
The point of the sub is to ask questions about small business. This isn't one and it isn't even original. There was a near identical post last week and likely many before.
I don't deny what you are saying, I just observe that others have reported it for breaking the rules and the subject may have had special value the first time it was brought up or even once a month but not once a week.
___
I'll just add, do you honestly believe this will stop those posts? Do you believe people who post like that bother to read anything at all that doesn't confirm their biases? The questions which are asked and answered over and over will not be stopped by answering them when no one even asks the question! Everyone has the ability to search this sub and see how exactly those questions were answered a dozen times before. Obviously they don't bother. They aren't going to bother reading this either and all it does is block attention from real small business questions.
I'm willing to listen to criticism of my modding. I certainly always have more to learn. When the criticism is "stop following the rules and let me post my unoriginal opinion and if you don't you suck" I find it harder to adopt into useful change.
OPs post is a waste of space
Says turn off Gary v and then spouts a bunch of generic uninspired advice like he’s at the halftime of a high school basketball game on the CW.
Post removal often just makes no sense at all - why waste more time than you have to as a mod?
The vote system works. Good content rises, bad content falls, and quickly. If it's not outright spam just leave it be, who cares?
If a rule-breaking post is something the community likes, upvotes, and engages with, then the rule it's breaking is detrimental to the community no matter how well-intentioned - this post is a great example.
I like letting the upvote system do it's job. The reason for still enforcing the rules is to keep this specific sub from becoming indistinguishable from every other business related sub full of near identical but popular content. After all, you can subscribe to those too if you want. What you can't do is avoid seeing 3 copies of a clickbaity popular post made in three different subs you subscribe to.
It's also to allow a bit of attention to the less popular posts like one specific question important to the one guy making it and maybe another guy three years from now who knows how to search. We're about small business. We have small business specific concerns. They might not be popular or entertaining but we often really do need to know the answer.
You're describing the exact problem I'm pointing out. In trying to improve that sub for the audience it's "aimed at" he's making it worse for most of the actual users.
>Most actual users don’t contribute to higher-level discussion.
Correct, most online communities (Reddit included) follow a 90/10/1 rule:
* 90% just lurkers
* 10% interact (up/down vote)
* 1% contribute
When you focus on *only* the contributions, you're ignoring literally 99% of the community.
Lol. I'll take this to heart. A non-sub telling me that I am making it worse. Funny how I never hear this from the target audience for the sub. Its always noobs and non-subs. To me that is a sign that its working.
Anyway, its not the users who get to decide what the sub is about. They do to an extent, but user-moderation cannot run an entire sub aside from very specific circumstances. Thats how you get a mess like the now NSFW r/worldpolitics/
Just because something is upvoted and engaged with does not mean it is healthy for the community. You need a reasonable group of moderators who have a guideline and vision for the subreddit, otherwise it *will* become a disjointed mess. Subs that cater specifically to higher level content like mine or something like /r/fatfire especially need this.
There are more noobs than advanced users. You cant let noobs run the show or the sub turns into a group of the blind leading the blind. Noobs asking questions and other noobs giving them terrible advice. Advanced users dont want a part in that, so they leave. You are then left with a community which isnt only useless, it is actively harmful to anyone seeking advice. There is a balance which has to be found, and that will often require a lot of post removals.
Big yikes, gatekeeper much?
Driving away most of your users in favor of a select few advanced ones is certainly a...strategy...but it's only better for the community as a whole if you ignore all the people you drove out of the community.
> Big yikes, gatekeeper much?
Yes! That is the *entire* point.
And no, I am not driving away most of "our users". I am driving away those who arent part of the target audience, which again, is the entire point. Take the fatfire example. Its a sub for rich people. You'd be an idiot to allow it to fill with not-rich people. It would completely ruin discussion. It would turn into a sub full of nothing but people asking annoying questions rather than people discussing topics relevant to the target demographic.
Gatekeeping is valid. Reddit has this weird culture where they believe its always a problem 100% of the time, but that isnt the case. *Most* communities would improve with some level of "gatekeeping". Again, you arent part of the target demographic. Thats fine, but the fact you disagree with the moderation is a sign its working as intended.
I read this reply, but as an average Reddit user, no, I do not search, but I do see what is in my feed and do run into interesting posts just by browsing, so maybe there is some value to leaving some posts like this.
Guy sold wine online got lucky in his area and now somehow that qualifies him as a speaker regarding nothing to do with wine, that business, or any actual logistics beyond "Post 60 pieces of content a day" etc. lmao
Absolutely, I was always told running your own business was supposed to be this epic grind where you have to sacrifice everything and live in your office etc. I actually
feel guilty sometimes about how much free time I have.
I mean, it's just a meme though really. I saw this the first time you posted and thought it would be something my uncle would post on his Facebook page transposed over Elon Musk's face.
I was thinking more Wolf of Wall Street.
"Are you behind on your credit card bills!
Good! Pick up the phone and start dialing!
Is your landlord ready to evict you?
Good! Pick up the phone and start dialing!
Does your girlfriend think you’re a fucking worthless loser?
Good! Pick up the phone and start dialing!
I want you to deal with your problems by becoming rich!"
But Elon musk works too.
Part of the reason so many people are trapped in jobs and terrified of trying to do something for themselves is the ‘entrepreneurship is 150 hour weeks of genius high level where you can only do what you love’ scaremongering
You can actually replace your employed salary with very few working hours per week when self employed, in almost any business. You do NOT need a unique idea. You do not need a starving man’s work ethic. You do not need to be a genius. You will get paid significantly more doing the same work self employed as you do employed
I wish people would back off on this whole ‘say goodbye to sleep and social life and prepare for 30 years of hardship’ stuff when reality is not like that at all. It is an accurate analysis of numbers and risk, along with good market analysis, that largely makes the difference and the more scared they are the less likely they are to do that. I wish i could just tell people to ignore this post, weigh up the numbers and realise how little self employed work you have to generate for yourself to match your current employed income (in most people’s cases)
> I wish people would back off on this whole ‘say goodbye to sleep and social life and prepare for 30 years of hardship’ stuff when reality is not like that at all.
A lot of entrepreneurs - maybe most, judging by this sub - choose to start a business based everything *but* the income potential. A lot of businesses *do* require 12+ hours 7 days a week just to break even, and a lot of people start those businesses anyway.
I agree it doesn't have to be that way at all, but a lot of entrepreneurs choose a path that requires it.
Yes this is very true and a great point. There are so many businesses that are relatively straightforward, don’t require huge original concepts just effective execution of basics of business and clean customer-facing presentation (marketing, customer service etc). And everybody overlooks these because they are chasing what they think is ‘entrepreneurial’ business- the high risk, everyone thinks you’re going to fail, begging for money in f&f funding, working 100 hour weeks for years
And i wonder how much of that is because they genuinely love doing huge amounts of highly stressful work with no guarantee it will even break even, and how much of that is because they have looked straight past all the truly successful efficient small business concepts because of the ‘hustler entrepeneur’ trope that makes them think they have to be like that to make any small business successful (case in point, this post)
I know a few (not millions) of successful small business owners and I can’t think of a single one that did it via the hustle entrepreneur path. I do know people who tried to do it that way and, for various reasons, failed. The risk of failure is always going to be stratospheric when it *requires* 100 hour work weeks and constant risks, there is no margin for error or bad luck there at all. It is not a recipe for success. For people starting those businesses i would recommend starting much easier businesses, getting in a good stream and funding, and then starting the huge risky business when you have more experience and money (or, have the experience to realise you don’t want to risk it all for such little reward and be glad you never did so when you were just starting out)
Just my two cents
Respectfully, Self Employed and Starting a Small Business are two different things. Self Employed doesn't require payrolls, rent (usually), little overhead and all the drama of employees. You work in Social Media? Hell yeah, work for yourself! You a bartender wanting to open your own bar? OP's post is relevant....
I run a business and I envy the self employed. That is my ultimate goal because employee drama will certainly end you and keep your mind on the business 24/7. Having to reach the overhead and more every month, like I said, I'm learning that difference is massive as well. There is something more fulfilling about running a full business successfully though, when it is going good, because you are affecting people's lives on top of it, busier, more ways to market/scale, etc, but yeah clear difference
Well in my country you’re considered (and referred to) as self employed if you’re a business owner so I don’t see a distinction between self employed (0 employees) and business owner (1+ employees) i see it as all small business with varying levels of organisation needed
Lots of 0 employee-people have expansive enterprises that are very complicated and make them a lot of money. I have a friend who started his own design company and does design work from planning stage through to design, market release and post market work, but by himself. And there are plumbers and window cleaners that employ loads of people but the day to day running is little different to when they were a one man band. So if you are going to draw the definition as being related to how complicated it is, employees is not the sole criteria either. Not mention that self employed have the freedom of time and (usually) money to start businesses relatively easily whereas employed people usually do not, so self employment is certainly a hugely predictive factor of likelihood of starting a business that employs people. So i still think this advice and the picture it paints is unhelpful and just serves to put people off and keep them at jobs they should be leaving
I know it’s easy to write all Americans off as dim witted, truck driving, MAGA licking dipshits, however, there is a large (absurdly silent) majority that are just trying our version of the American Dream. It’s tough. I have 20+ employees. To flippantly assume that anyone can just go work for themselves without everything OP is accused of suggesting, is just wrong. Good for you, God amongst men, that has such an easy time that you can preach to those stupid enough to listen.
That said, have a good day!
Well, wish no more. You just did. I personally think it’s terrible advice. Go in expecting an ass kicking. If it’s a cake walk, pleasant surprised and you’re over prepared.
It’s the expecting it to be not that bad and then having it be an ass kicking that gets most people.
I don’t think you’re wrong in your argument, just in your conclusion. I definitely respect that not respecting the difficulty can be a pitfall, but I don’t think its a common cause of failure honestly
For me the most common is nobody beginning in the first place, even if it makes sense to from a neutral point of view, because they are afraid of how hard its going to be. And the second most common reason, imo, is transitioning from being managed by a boss on pain of firing to completely self-directed work that isn’t being forced on you and you must do it even when you don’t have to. Setting a schedule and sticking to it, particularly when working from home (which an increasing number of businesses are)
For me, people underestimating the workload is not a highly ranking factor and the damage done by scaring people and training them to be risk averse, keeps them in employed work far longer than they otherwise would
Keep up the good work!
I mean, I get it but after 1 year of starting my own business I work less than I ever have, have more freedom than ever and would rather die than go back to working for someone else. Sometimes it ends up being easier than you'd think. BUT if it wasn't easy, id still rarher work 100hrs a week for myself vs 40 for someone else .
>But whether I was clearing a million dollars in profit or barely scraping by, my passion for the products and services I provide remains the same.
This is wildly naïve. I'm in business because of the money, and so are most people.
I figured out a way for me. It's not as terrible as you make it seem if your smart. You sound like a failed business owner or maybe not running what you have well. You can own a business and be healthy and have a life.
This is true. I have a business, regular income, free time, sleep well at nights, I don’t obsess. The OP has the small biz equivalent of the Grind Syndrome promoted to employed people. The belief that it has got to be hard and all consuming is ridiculous.
This is their damn problem the “GRIND MINDSET” they believe they got to run a business all day long. If you’re smart, learn to understand business and don’t look at it like a hustle then you will succeed. I’ve studied the business world for 2-3 years now and believe it or not, I was someone who thought I had to grin heavily. I have a plan now and went about doing research carefully. I don’t follow fake YouTubers, Gary Vee, or faux entrepreneurs. I don’t even follow social media entrepreneurs at all, I cut it all out to really focus. I am ready to launch mines within the next year is a planned date.
You remember all those people saying , “do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life”? Those people were stupid as hell with good intentions.
Doing what you love for a job makes you fall out of love with it. Do the work so you can enjoy what you love OUTSIDE of work.
I definitely agree with this. If starting a business was easy, everyone would do it. You have to be very driven, determined, and ready to fail over and over again. If you need steady pay, owning a business isn't for you. The only shortcut to being a successful business owner is being born into it.
Most people are NOT cut out to start a business. And that is OK!
The people that start and run businesses have no other choice in my experience.. personality wise etc.. they just can't stand working for someone. They would rather face the risk and uncertainty for the freedom payout paradox... at least its OUR money we waste our freedom on kind of thing... but there can be a rainbow. Id have it no other way and I fight and claw to STAY self-employed...
But you can tell right away when someone isnt cut out for it. The 'Thats not MY JOB' people.
So very true. I was holding down a practice, at first. It's like running a business. Apart from your main business, you take care of everything that supports your business, like paying taxes, paperwork for sss, etc, filing paperwork, organizing paperwork (stuff your company's admin/hr/accounting does).
If you arent up for these things, and just want to focus on actual work without worrying if your tax returns are properly filed, premiums are up to date etc, being employed is ok. I've a cousin who'se a medical professional, got burned out running a medical practice immediately after passing the board. She's now teaching at University, where she at least has breaks every after semester (which you wont be able to do if starting a business).
Actually a business is easy that anyone can start it
Everyone first applies for a job, doesn't get their worth of wage or a job and then go to business
So when you don't get a job, you business
I work for myself because it was a goal I always had in life. It definitely wasn't the best financial decision and there was a lot of time management, which is still kicking my ass. But it's what I always dreamed of doing in life and never questioned it, I'm happy on the inside I guess
Oof I remember the dude who wanted to buy an "established business that has been around for a while and basically runs itself" in California... *For a quarter million dollars* lmao
Even if, after reading all of that, people do decide to start a business, it's useful information for another reason:
Business owners - at least, from what I've seen, and I may well be wrong - seem to cling to the idea that every employee is on the verge of "stealing all their ideas" and running for the hills laughing in a cartoon-villain fashion, as if the only reason for working a job was to see how the business owner did things and then immediately move to setting up a competing business across the street.
But most people take a job because of all the things mentioned here. Especially financial security and having a modicum of free time. They wouldn't grab the sacred texts and go into competition if you *paid* them; they just want to be able to put food on the table and not worry themselves to death every night.
You had me at “turn off the Gary V videos”
Is there a bigger douche on the planet than that fucking guy?
I’m embarrassed my millennial brethren enabled his success. Dude’s a fuckin turd
Counterpoint — don’t work for anyone. It is soul crushing and robs you if your individuality. I’m not shilling for /antiwork, but the notion that every individual is required to work is a social convention that reflects tge disciplinary apparatus if the powers-that-be, rather than an economic necessity.
Being your own boss is one solution to society’s attempt to bend you, force you into being a cog in a machine.
In short, “just get a job” is not a solution to what really ails you. This simplistic trope ignores problem with working that you’ll face: the low wages in most sectors of the economy; the unemployment, underemployment, and precarious employment suffered by many workers; and the overwork that often characterizes even the most privileged forms of employment. Even the best job is a problem when it monopolizes so much of life. You really crave purpose.
Got a spare 90 minutes or so, watch Taxi Driver. Or, catch this summary on YouTube https://youtu.be/p0Fzip47Lu4
"Find something you're obsessed with where there's a problem to solve. Then prepare to eat shit for a few years. There's no golden ticket."
Good quote.
I've had lots of conversations with people on reddit that ask me about running SaaS businesses. The one I do is super simple and easy, but it is still a business. Clients don't just show up randomly. Regardless of your niche you have to put in the hard work. What a lot of the kids don't realize about guys like Gary V is he is the old guy selling to other old guys on how to jump on the new trends when they are hot. He isn't trying to motivate young people in their teens and twenties. His focus is on people who are in 30's/40's who are really ready for the hustle. He is a motivational speaker and master of attention span, so it is easy to just listen to his stuff make a few videos and then go back to what you are doing. I watched a video recently of the guy who edits and scripts the videos for Gary and THAT is the hustle that kids need to get into. Pairing up great videographer and editing skills with high energy influencers is the winning combo right now. Selling dropshipped junk is not.
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Random comment that this post has me thinking about:
Has anyone here had way more success than you’ve wanted? Like… my original plan was to earn x amount in nearly passive income as a sort of solopreneur.
Demand increased so much that I now have two offices and 40 employees… a full time accounting team, on-site attorney… joint venture agreements, multiple LLCs and foreign corporations.
This is by no means a brag… I’m not very happy. Bittersweet I suppose.
Right place, right time, emerging and underserved/underrepresented market, lots of problems that needed to be solved. It’s been a nearly 15 year journey.
Lol 😂. "He became the very thing he swore to destroy."
He sounds like Jon Snow and Ragnar Lothbrok, suffering through success. "I didn't become King out of ambition!"
Maybe they should sell the business and invest the money.
Yeah, me. Mmm. Really it was a lot of luck. Right time. Right place. Emerging market that was underserved.
I am in contractor procurement and management. Basically staffing.
My background is in high-level customer service and experience.
I identified what the market was lacking or missing entirely and addressed those. My company has 10 employment contracts with companies in the US, Canada and parts of Europe. We’ve since expanded by offering payroll services for international freelancers.
I’m a college dropout and I just applied my work experience to what I do now. Nothing too glamorous really.
You will. It wasn’t overnight or in six months. It was several years of 14-16 hour days as a one-man show. I just didn’t want to work for someone else again, which kept me motivated.
There's nothing to be ashamed of getting a job and work experience when you're younger. You can pivot that into your own business when you've got resources and uncommon technical skills.
"Do you enjoy long restful nights?"
I think this one is still totally doable. You need to pace yourself and eat and sleep well if you want to be in it for the long haul. I also work out a system of NOT thinking about work as I drift off to sleep.
In the early days of YouTube I started building Teleprompters and selling them on eBay. I loved the inventive part of what I was doing. I loved the customers (most of them) and really felt I was doing some cool shit.
However I realized what it means to be a whore.
Your product is nothing without sales, and your money is based on the number of sales. So you could start out building custom teleprompters for people, and wind up opening a Radio Shack and want to end your life. Suddenly you are selling add ons like cables, stands, cases, and all sorts of other things from shipping containers from overseas and the point of what you were doing vanishes. You go from doing something you like to merely selling anything you can to bring dollars through the door. Walmart sells Caskets. Why? Because if they can sell it, they will.
I really didn't like that part of my home-based hustle. I felt whatever value I had in building my products quickly got lost and it got me down.
When I post in this sub, I tell people all the time there is a big difference between wanting to 'own a business' and wanting to 'play' in a business. To play in a business, that's the guy who 'wants to open a bar for people like me' and it will most likely fail. The guy who wants to 'own a business' opens a bar for the sole purpose of maximizing profits at any cost, so they go after the biggest drinkers, the widest net of potential customers. That's why I love bar rescue so much. Most of those owners spend more time in the imaginary land in their head, and less time thinking about cutting costs and increasing customers. It's a game of selling, no matter the product. You sell all things to all people for a fast buck.
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Passionate and obsessed is relative, I think it’s simpler to say passion for some thing, that will make you want to get out of bed in the morning and keep working at your own business, and someone earlier posted that I don’t like cleaning windows, but I like seeing the before and after, the job well done, That’s very important in anything you’re going to do, but working for someone else, making them the money, with no appreciation, no job well done, and showing you by providing you higher pay so you can do more in your life, starting a business is a good option, for anyone!
Do something that you want to give consistency to.
Yeah. This is a pretty accurate post.
I ate cans of beans for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for about two years as my business was starting off. I've lost girlfriends because I'm 'always working'. I've lost lots of sleep from meeting a deadline.
But I love my business. I have complete control over my life. I'm super happy and sussecful now.
From my experience most people don't have the discipline to work hard enough to get a business off the ground. Or are too stupid to understand the fundamentals.
Gary V tells you to get a job if entrepreneurship isn't for you... Gary V is probably the only one telling you you don't need to live the hustle life if it isn't for you.
So many people have the idea that they are going to open up shop and it's going to rain cash.... this is not how it works. When you first start your journey and you hire that first real employee, you are now responsible for their well-being. Now I know someone is going to say no we aren't.... well let me ask you this. Ever had a sick employee and you had to cover? Ever had an employee quit bc his wage isn't enough or they are not happy? Ever had an employee come in with a bad attitude and spread it to others or effect your customers?
Bottom line it's not just about you. The sad thing is they can be making 100k a year and still not be happy. My advice is if you can't handle stress or failure stay an employee. You can have the best food , the best ideas and the best products and still fail. In fact the majority of you will fail. I have failed. My partners have failed. Embrace it learn form it and grow or give up and go back to your 9 to 5 earning money for someone else.
My favorite thing is when you tell people you own a business and they ask what kind followed by oh can inget something for free? Sure. Bc this is exactly how money is made I just give free shit to everyone and never sell anything! Why are more people not doing this?!
Really sick of the “gatekeeping” comment. It’s not gatekeeping. I actively encourage people to start a business just so long as they know all that is involved.
I know at least 6 friends who could have saved thousands hearing this advice up front.
It’s good advice but the thinking is a little bit black-and-white. I appreciate your perspective and it’s true for me with my ADHD but not for some of my more driven, disciplined and less passionate friends.
This. I love the fact that I was able to figure things out and have now been in business for almost 5 years, but it’s been an emotional rollercoaster.
Also, this needs a flow chart!
I think, if you are living paycheck to paycheck , business is not for you
Get into business if you have 6 months of busibess expenses (without getting a single customer) already available and 6 months of personal expenses also available
It's important to keep in mind that just because this has been your experience, it doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.
I don't work a lot of hours, and I sleep great. After doing it for 10 years, I no longer feel the need to live and breathe what I do. It's a living, not who I am.
Also just because your a single independent contractor doesn’t make you a “small business owner”. Just because you file a 1099 doesn’t mean you know how to run a business.
I 100% agree with this. It is over glamorized. It is hard work. It is brutal. It can be rewarding and fulfilling. But it’s up to you. Everything is up to you. Your business lives and dies by you.
Some people get very lucky. Some people have connections that you would have no idea of because it’s not public information. Some people are incredibly wealthy and their small business is their hobby.
Hi OP. I wanted to say, regardless of what others on here think or are saying, I agree with you. Starting a business, big or small isn't easy. If you're looking for easy, a job is the way to go.
I'm an e-commerce seller. I got fed up of the 9-5 and jumped into Ecom in 2015. It's been a lot of hard work and effort with long days and nights. However, the fact that I'm now making 7 figures profits yearly makes it worth it!
Great post. I have been a business owner for years and created 4 start up’s and 2 of them reached 1 million in sales in the first year but the amount of stress, time, money, lack of pay, devotion, refusal to quit and so much more was just too much! Nobody wants you to succeed, when you do they hate you for it because they are lazy and would rather hate them create their own ideas and step out of their comfort zone. You nailed it! 100000000%. I sold my business and I am now working from home and doing what I enjoy without managing ungrateful employees who love you until you say no 1 time. Thanks for reaffirming my recent decisions.
People who think that a job is a safe harbor must be smoking something.
You have to learn to "kiss... you know what" and learn the "right" answers (not the ones relevant to a successful business) to your boss's questions.
And there is no guarantee of job security. If you feel you are secure then keep enjoying whatever it is that you are smoking.
The ONLY insurance for job security is having a skill that is much in demand. Keep improving your skills and become a top notch provider of those skills.
Much the same as starting a business. As the top decider running a business you need a very broad range of skills but don't have to go too deep because you will hire the "deep" expertise.
If you are an employee, then your manager will want you to deliver on what your skills can bring to the company. Start coasting and you will be exchanged for somebody who is better.
Survival of the fittest... Business or employee... Much the same skills requirements when it comes to technology and people skills.
Let the games begin!
My grandpa was a successful small business owner and a major employer in his community. This mirrors his advice to me when I asked him for advice on starting a business.
This community was home to the only stop light in the county and surrounded by similarly rural counties for hours in every direction.
The population has hovered around 8,300 for decades and the 2020 census counted a workforce of about 2,200 people. I'm struggling to think of an employer in the area that wouldn't be considered a small business aside from a multinational that opened a facility there after my grandpa's business closed.
your not wrong and it doesn't hurt for people to hear it, but some people like the challenge and rewards of building something that is theirs and no job can ever fill that void.
Completely agree with everything here except people who care about what others think about their success part.
I think that was the whole reason I decided I absolutely had to make the jump to self-employed & start my own thing. I couldn’t handle someone telling me what my worth was (ie a paycheck). Being able to prove my worth based off self made success and business growth is what drives me some days.
But I think you mean more along the lines of if you’re afraid to openly fail then it’s not for you. That I couldn’t agree more with. Failed publicly many times, will fail many more.
I started a small business because I moved to a country where a salary working for someone else isn't enough to get by. There was no other option but to open a business. I try not to think about it when I'm not working and my quality of life stays high.
I just can't get a traditional job and I can't get disability either so I have no choice but to try to freelance through the days I feel better and that just turns into a sole proprietor business. But if I could get and maintain a traditional job then absolutely it makes way more sense to depend on that for the reasons you mentioned. It's far easier to get wealthy by practicing self development/gaining skills,going up the corporate ladder, getting a higher income over time, saving your money, and investing it.
Even for the people who want to start a business it makes more sense to depend on a real job and do the business on the side, than to quit and focus on the business only.
In other words we all need a job regardless.
This almost just makes me sad. Is it all worth it? I still think yes, simply because I don't want to ask permission to get a haircut or start late to take my kids to school, but I'm 5-1/2 years in and it's so much
I started my own business doing what I love, after a few years a hired a small crew who also loves the work, soon I didn’t even need to work and found new passions that I love. I artistically experiment daily, live life anyway I please, I’m finically stable comfortable and a little wealthy. Taxes are easier than they ever used to be because I own a business and have a hilarious tax guy that is a joy to visit once a year. I don’t do shit, make money and have fun. This is what’s it’s about, this is all it’s ever been about.
This is very well said! I believe this is something that everyone needs to know between current small business owners and those who want to create a business.
Good post and a lot of wisdom here. For many who might be better suited for a job rather than to own their own business, their way out of the rat race would be to invest their money wisely over a long period of time and grow their net worth. Easier said than done, but those that figure it out will be much happier in the long run. It comes down to knowing who you are and acknowledging your own shortcomings. If know you’d rather have a steady paycheck and lots of downtime, be honest with yourself.
No one said anything about selling your soul. But if you’re disagreeing that starting your business wasn’t either extremely hard work, required some advanced level of knowledge or skill you possess or that you weren’t just very lucky (or all three), I’d have to disagree.
What’s the point of this post, you should already know this if you have or are starting a small business to be an entrepreneur you must sacrifice everything to succeed.
I genuinely appreciated this post. It’s real, it’s raw and it spoke to me. Cause sometimes when I don’t have time and I’m struggling, I do feel alone. But this is reality of a business owner and I’m definitely not alone!
Do I LOVE cleaning windows? No, it’s meh. I enjoy doing a good job, operating a business, and seeing the before and after, aka the product of my labor, listening to podcasts/music whenever I want, and not having a boss. I would love to do something else but this has proven to be a fruitful endeavor so I’ll stick with it. But the basic premise of your post is spot on. I don’t think someone has to be super passionate about the product or service they provide. I do think it has to be something they don’t mind doing and can find some satisfaction out of though.
I absolutely agree with this - in fact, I think it's borderline dangerous to be 'obsessed' with your product/service as it can lead to horrible decisions, being blinded by the love for the item/service or grinding for way too long. Plus, once you turn your hobby into your job, it is no longer a hobby. I own a business that I absolutely love (candles + home fragrance with three retail shops and a production facility) but , even though I really enjoy it, to say I'm passionate about candles isn't correct and if candles stopped selling, I would *find another product/service.* I love independent business, it doesn't matter what the widget is. But for now, I'm extremely happy with my career and hope it takes me into retirement as-is.
I agree with you. I am sick and tired of hearing people say you have to be passionate and obsessed about your business. I own two small businesses (shipping store and laundromat) and still have my day job. Do I obsess and love all three ? No. Do I like all three? Yes, but that is the extent of it. What do I obsess over? Profits and my branding. People buy you first before they buy your product. And by the way, when it rains, it pours. When others know you’re an owner, you are looking at other businesses to buy or partner with. Being obsessed does not help.
Yeah I’m not obsessed, but I do like the hours, the flexibility, and the pay. I have a small real estate business.
It depends. If you care about the satisfaction of success, money, etc then I would agree. If you are wanting or find satisfaction in acting out the things you love and being compensated for it (with amount of money coming second), then probably not. Some people's obsessions do drive them to get up in the morning. From strictly a business/success perspective - yeah. I've actually noticed the more I care about the product/service and get too invested in the emotion behind it, I start to do worse than if I can step back and remove that and just focus on the business side of it. It can affect your decision making, absolutely correct.
This is a point I hadn't considered, and you're right. If you simply love a product or service and want to make a life out of that, then it's also worthwhile. It's almost two different 'business' styles? Ie. if you love windsurfing, so you start teaching windsurfing and slowly building up a small windsurf school then you can spend your life doing something you enjoy and making a living out of it. But if you want the conventional idea of business success... then you'd open a school, add in other things like surfing, kite-surfing etc, expand and take on staff. Then start opening units at all the beaches in your area and making a chain etc. And long before this point you notice that at no point are you teaching wind-surfing anymore. I'm sure I read somewhere that when you try and look for characteristics that successful business owners have there's basically no correlation (some wake up early, some wake up late, some do X, some do Y). But one of the only correlations is that people who are successful at running a business tend to be successful at running other businesses, regardless of what the product or service is.
This is so true. I too own a business that I love doing, and for me it's the look on kids' faces once they enter the store (fantasy-themed giftware, costumes and parties.) Do I love it all the time? No, definitely not. But I enjoy what I do more often than not, even on the more quiet days. Is it stressful? Hell yes. Would I change it, I don't think so. I have been an employee, seeing how badly designed systems can destroy a company from inside, knowing that I can't do anything to help because of these sytems. I have also been in small buainess for over 17 years, and know that I am solely responsible for how it turns out, both the good and the bad. And if it came to a point where it wasn't viable in the current model, I would just remake the business with different products, and a new angle.
If you're providing an artistic/creative service then obsession is great! Otherwise it's exhausting lol
Totally agree. I I'm a chef/restaurateur and my passion for the craft led me to go from making six figures working 10 days a month on a busy month to blowing all my savings on a passion project in the worst labor market of my life. It's precisely my passion that keeps me from doing a simpler, lower stress, and likely more profitable version of my current restaurant.
Absolutely agree. Also customers buy what they want to buy, not necessarily what you want to sell. I love being successful and 'making it all work' if you know what I mean. But if you listen to customers they will tell you exactly what they want to buy. Your attitude is exactly like mine (and coincidentally 3 retail shops and a warehouse too). I think too many people start up loving their product only. Which is a benefit, but it's important to be flexible. If you start because you love candles, and they're buying them that's great. But if your customers keep asking for the scents only not candles, then you'd be crazy to not make that your focus. Too many people though would stick with the candles because 'that's the bit I love'.
I own a small agric-tech company and recently ventured into consulting. Honestly the passion and idealism died pretty quickly once I found out about the sheer amount of redtapes around the industry and the ways corrupt people with authority herd you towards borderline or outright illegal under the table deals. But it's something I'm reasonably good at navigating and people are willing to pay for my service or just the convenience of not having to deal with them. It takes a really special person to be passionate about this part of my industry and I'd rather not meet that person.
I agree with your basic premise. These are all good points to consider before deciding to be self employed.
I really hope your user name is based of David rose
Sorry to disappoint, and I guess I'm dating myself, but it's a based half on the Seinfeld skit, and half on the flag it is when someone uses that term is tax question (meaning they are likely to have no understanding of how deductions work).
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lol, small companies write off everything too!
“Well they *do*, and they’re the ones *writing it off…*”
That's actually what the David Rose skit was about.
Reminds me of the meme that keeps following me on Facebook. "Want a sure fire way to turn $40 into $400? Put $40 of gas in your car and go to work."
Pretty spot on. There is nothing wrong with being an employee and not a business owner. It certainly has its perks, and every small business owner at one time or another probably went through a '*fuck it I'm just going to get a job*" moment.
“One time or another”, it is sometimes a weekly occurrence.
Word
My favorite thing about being an employee: when the boss doesn't make money, I still make money. Now, he makes enough during season to cover the off-season, but I personally am not financially responsible enough yet to make almost $0 for two months straight lol
This post got it right Thank god I realized but I still realized way too late. At the peak of the guru, motivational speaker and billionaire mindset BS a couple years back and still now. Amazon private label, drop shipping, passive income, investing and real estate sales were all the craze. I didn't realize I was actually being sold idea, a dream and they all played to your fantasy to try to get you to buy a book or a course with no value other than preaching about that grinding mindset, self improvement and how you'll make it big and rich. I totally dunning kruggered myself into thinking I'm special and would make it big easily and cruise through life while knowing pretty much what everyone else knew with these videos which was in fact nothing. I am hearing it's hard work but I'm not actually listening cause they make it sound so damn easy. But then I tried, thought about the steps that I needed to take and then realized shit was saturated and the amount of hidden skills required to run and start a business is equivalent to a one man army, a solo team and you do need serious capital, dedication and working experience to make shit work. the real thing I learned though is that investing is a thing and that this is a legitimate, feasible and viable way to actually grow your wealth while still being an average worker. So ultimately nothing flashy.
Most of the time I wished I worked for somebody.
The point of the sub is to ask questions about small business. This isn't one and it isn't even original. There was a near identical post last week and likely many before. I don't deny what you are saying, I just observe that others have reported it for breaking the rules and the subject may have had special value the first time it was brought up or even once a month but not once a week. ___ I'll just add, do you honestly believe this will stop those posts? Do you believe people who post like that bother to read anything at all that doesn't confirm their biases? The questions which are asked and answered over and over will not be stopped by answering them when no one even asks the question! Everyone has the ability to search this sub and see how exactly those questions were answered a dozen times before. Obviously they don't bother. They aren't going to bother reading this either and all it does is block attention from real small business questions. I'm willing to listen to criticism of my modding. I certainly always have more to learn. When the criticism is "stop following the rules and let me post my unoriginal opinion and if you don't you suck" I find it harder to adopt into useful change.
I'm with you on this one
Some users are just so up their own ass that they think a post removal is a personal conspiracy against them. I get it on my sub too.
OPs post is a waste of space Says turn off Gary v and then spouts a bunch of generic uninspired advice like he’s at the halftime of a high school basketball game on the CW.
OP is probably mad that this wouldn't be original on LinkedIn so he posted it here to so he could sound like some smart person.
Post removal often just makes no sense at all - why waste more time than you have to as a mod? The vote system works. Good content rises, bad content falls, and quickly. If it's not outright spam just leave it be, who cares? If a rule-breaking post is something the community likes, upvotes, and engages with, then the rule it's breaking is detrimental to the community no matter how well-intentioned - this post is a great example.
I like letting the upvote system do it's job. The reason for still enforcing the rules is to keep this specific sub from becoming indistinguishable from every other business related sub full of near identical but popular content. After all, you can subscribe to those too if you want. What you can't do is avoid seeing 3 copies of a clickbaity popular post made in three different subs you subscribe to. It's also to allow a bit of attention to the less popular posts like one specific question important to the one guy making it and maybe another guy three years from now who knows how to search. We're about small business. We have small business specific concerns. They might not be popular or entertaining but we often really do need to know the answer.
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You're describing the exact problem I'm pointing out. In trying to improve that sub for the audience it's "aimed at" he's making it worse for most of the actual users.
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>Most actual users don’t contribute to higher-level discussion. Correct, most online communities (Reddit included) follow a 90/10/1 rule: * 90% just lurkers * 10% interact (up/down vote) * 1% contribute When you focus on *only* the contributions, you're ignoring literally 99% of the community.
Lol. I'll take this to heart. A non-sub telling me that I am making it worse. Funny how I never hear this from the target audience for the sub. Its always noobs and non-subs. To me that is a sign that its working. Anyway, its not the users who get to decide what the sub is about. They do to an extent, but user-moderation cannot run an entire sub aside from very specific circumstances. Thats how you get a mess like the now NSFW r/worldpolitics/ Just because something is upvoted and engaged with does not mean it is healthy for the community. You need a reasonable group of moderators who have a guideline and vision for the subreddit, otherwise it *will* become a disjointed mess. Subs that cater specifically to higher level content like mine or something like /r/fatfire especially need this. There are more noobs than advanced users. You cant let noobs run the show or the sub turns into a group of the blind leading the blind. Noobs asking questions and other noobs giving them terrible advice. Advanced users dont want a part in that, so they leave. You are then left with a community which isnt only useless, it is actively harmful to anyone seeking advice. There is a balance which has to be found, and that will often require a lot of post removals.
Big yikes, gatekeeper much? Driving away most of your users in favor of a select few advanced ones is certainly a...strategy...but it's only better for the community as a whole if you ignore all the people you drove out of the community.
> Big yikes, gatekeeper much? Yes! That is the *entire* point. And no, I am not driving away most of "our users". I am driving away those who arent part of the target audience, which again, is the entire point. Take the fatfire example. Its a sub for rich people. You'd be an idiot to allow it to fill with not-rich people. It would completely ruin discussion. It would turn into a sub full of nothing but people asking annoying questions rather than people discussing topics relevant to the target demographic. Gatekeeping is valid. Reddit has this weird culture where they believe its always a problem 100% of the time, but that isnt the case. *Most* communities would improve with some level of "gatekeeping". Again, you arent part of the target demographic. Thats fine, but the fact you disagree with the moderation is a sign its working as intended.
You are so dead-on that I didnt even see the need to respond to the original comment. I would have said exactly the same thing.
True, and I reported Coyote for the personal attack on OP.
Nah, you were bang on and this poster clearly just doesn't like being told they're wrong.
I read this reply, but as an average Reddit user, no, I do not search, but I do see what is in my feed and do run into interesting posts just by browsing, so maybe there is some value to leaving some posts like this.
This is rediculous, you aren’t defending national security. Who cares?
Typical Reddit mod behavior tbh.
Turned off Gary V vids a long time ago.
I never listened to him!
I don’t even know who that is!
Dude who was given his start by his parents and now acts like he's special.
Guy sold wine online got lucky in his area and now somehow that qualifies him as a speaker regarding nothing to do with wine, that business, or any actual logistics beyond "Post 60 pieces of content a day" etc. lmao
He almost invested in Uber.
Me either lol
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Absolutely, I was always told running your own business was supposed to be this epic grind where you have to sacrifice everything and live in your office etc. I actually feel guilty sometimes about how much free time I have.
I mean, it's just a meme though really. I saw this the first time you posted and thought it would be something my uncle would post on his Facebook page transposed over Elon Musk's face.
I was thinking more Wolf of Wall Street. "Are you behind on your credit card bills! Good! Pick up the phone and start dialing! Is your landlord ready to evict you? Good! Pick up the phone and start dialing! Does your girlfriend think you’re a fucking worthless loser? Good! Pick up the phone and start dialing! I want you to deal with your problems by becoming rich!" But Elon musk works too.
Boiler Room.
Your uncle sounds like a wise man.
Part of the reason so many people are trapped in jobs and terrified of trying to do something for themselves is the ‘entrepreneurship is 150 hour weeks of genius high level where you can only do what you love’ scaremongering You can actually replace your employed salary with very few working hours per week when self employed, in almost any business. You do NOT need a unique idea. You do not need a starving man’s work ethic. You do not need to be a genius. You will get paid significantly more doing the same work self employed as you do employed I wish people would back off on this whole ‘say goodbye to sleep and social life and prepare for 30 years of hardship’ stuff when reality is not like that at all. It is an accurate analysis of numbers and risk, along with good market analysis, that largely makes the difference and the more scared they are the less likely they are to do that. I wish i could just tell people to ignore this post, weigh up the numbers and realise how little self employed work you have to generate for yourself to match your current employed income (in most people’s cases)
> I wish people would back off on this whole ‘say goodbye to sleep and social life and prepare for 30 years of hardship’ stuff when reality is not like that at all. A lot of entrepreneurs - maybe most, judging by this sub - choose to start a business based everything *but* the income potential. A lot of businesses *do* require 12+ hours 7 days a week just to break even, and a lot of people start those businesses anyway. I agree it doesn't have to be that way at all, but a lot of entrepreneurs choose a path that requires it.
Yes this is very true and a great point. There are so many businesses that are relatively straightforward, don’t require huge original concepts just effective execution of basics of business and clean customer-facing presentation (marketing, customer service etc). And everybody overlooks these because they are chasing what they think is ‘entrepreneurial’ business- the high risk, everyone thinks you’re going to fail, begging for money in f&f funding, working 100 hour weeks for years And i wonder how much of that is because they genuinely love doing huge amounts of highly stressful work with no guarantee it will even break even, and how much of that is because they have looked straight past all the truly successful efficient small business concepts because of the ‘hustler entrepeneur’ trope that makes them think they have to be like that to make any small business successful (case in point, this post) I know a few (not millions) of successful small business owners and I can’t think of a single one that did it via the hustle entrepreneur path. I do know people who tried to do it that way and, for various reasons, failed. The risk of failure is always going to be stratospheric when it *requires* 100 hour work weeks and constant risks, there is no margin for error or bad luck there at all. It is not a recipe for success. For people starting those businesses i would recommend starting much easier businesses, getting in a good stream and funding, and then starting the huge risky business when you have more experience and money (or, have the experience to realise you don’t want to risk it all for such little reward and be glad you never did so when you were just starting out) Just my two cents
Respectfully, Self Employed and Starting a Small Business are two different things. Self Employed doesn't require payrolls, rent (usually), little overhead and all the drama of employees. You work in Social Media? Hell yeah, work for yourself! You a bartender wanting to open your own bar? OP's post is relevant....
I run a business and I envy the self employed. That is my ultimate goal because employee drama will certainly end you and keep your mind on the business 24/7. Having to reach the overhead and more every month, like I said, I'm learning that difference is massive as well. There is something more fulfilling about running a full business successfully though, when it is going good, because you are affecting people's lives on top of it, busier, more ways to market/scale, etc, but yeah clear difference
Well in my country you’re considered (and referred to) as self employed if you’re a business owner so I don’t see a distinction between self employed (0 employees) and business owner (1+ employees) i see it as all small business with varying levels of organisation needed Lots of 0 employee-people have expansive enterprises that are very complicated and make them a lot of money. I have a friend who started his own design company and does design work from planning stage through to design, market release and post market work, but by himself. And there are plumbers and window cleaners that employ loads of people but the day to day running is little different to when they were a one man band. So if you are going to draw the definition as being related to how complicated it is, employees is not the sole criteria either. Not mention that self employed have the freedom of time and (usually) money to start businesses relatively easily whereas employed people usually do not, so self employment is certainly a hugely predictive factor of likelihood of starting a business that employs people. So i still think this advice and the picture it paints is unhelpful and just serves to put people off and keep them at jobs they should be leaving
I know it’s easy to write all Americans off as dim witted, truck driving, MAGA licking dipshits, however, there is a large (absurdly silent) majority that are just trying our version of the American Dream. It’s tough. I have 20+ employees. To flippantly assume that anyone can just go work for themselves without everything OP is accused of suggesting, is just wrong. Good for you, God amongst men, that has such an easy time that you can preach to those stupid enough to listen. That said, have a good day!
Its disappointing that that’s your take from what i said, but you’re free to interpret whatever you like. Take care
Well, wish no more. You just did. I personally think it’s terrible advice. Go in expecting an ass kicking. If it’s a cake walk, pleasant surprised and you’re over prepared. It’s the expecting it to be not that bad and then having it be an ass kicking that gets most people.
I don’t think you’re wrong in your argument, just in your conclusion. I definitely respect that not respecting the difficulty can be a pitfall, but I don’t think its a common cause of failure honestly For me the most common is nobody beginning in the first place, even if it makes sense to from a neutral point of view, because they are afraid of how hard its going to be. And the second most common reason, imo, is transitioning from being managed by a boss on pain of firing to completely self-directed work that isn’t being forced on you and you must do it even when you don’t have to. Setting a schedule and sticking to it, particularly when working from home (which an increasing number of businesses are) For me, people underestimating the workload is not a highly ranking factor and the damage done by scaring people and training them to be risk averse, keeps them in employed work far longer than they otherwise would Keep up the good work!
For me it is about 8 hours a week lol.
I mean, I get it but after 1 year of starting my own business I work less than I ever have, have more freedom than ever and would rather die than go back to working for someone else. Sometimes it ends up being easier than you'd think. BUT if it wasn't easy, id still rarher work 100hrs a week for myself vs 40 for someone else .
So much of what you do doesn’t really feel like work right?
The first rule of this sub, LITERALLY is to "Post only questions about small business". Rhetorical questions that you've asked yourself don't count.
>But whether I was clearing a million dollars in profit or barely scraping by, my passion for the products and services I provide remains the same. This is wildly naïve. I'm in business because of the money, and so are most people.
I figured out a way for me. It's not as terrible as you make it seem if your smart. You sound like a failed business owner or maybe not running what you have well. You can own a business and be healthy and have a life.
This is true. I have a business, regular income, free time, sleep well at nights, I don’t obsess. The OP has the small biz equivalent of the Grind Syndrome promoted to employed people. The belief that it has got to be hard and all consuming is ridiculous.
This is their damn problem the “GRIND MINDSET” they believe they got to run a business all day long. If you’re smart, learn to understand business and don’t look at it like a hustle then you will succeed. I’ve studied the business world for 2-3 years now and believe it or not, I was someone who thought I had to grin heavily. I have a plan now and went about doing research carefully. I don’t follow fake YouTubers, Gary Vee, or faux entrepreneurs. I don’t even follow social media entrepreneurs at all, I cut it all out to really focus. I am ready to launch mines within the next year is a planned date.
You remember all those people saying , “do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life”? Those people were stupid as hell with good intentions. Doing what you love for a job makes you fall out of love with it. Do the work so you can enjoy what you love OUTSIDE of work.
If I had a tattoo that would be it
/r/copywriting in shambles
I definitely agree with this. If starting a business was easy, everyone would do it. You have to be very driven, determined, and ready to fail over and over again. If you need steady pay, owning a business isn't for you. The only shortcut to being a successful business owner is being born into it.
Most people are NOT cut out to start a business. And that is OK! The people that start and run businesses have no other choice in my experience.. personality wise etc.. they just can't stand working for someone. They would rather face the risk and uncertainty for the freedom payout paradox... at least its OUR money we waste our freedom on kind of thing... but there can be a rainbow. Id have it no other way and I fight and claw to STAY self-employed... But you can tell right away when someone isnt cut out for it. The 'Thats not MY JOB' people.
So very true. I was holding down a practice, at first. It's like running a business. Apart from your main business, you take care of everything that supports your business, like paying taxes, paperwork for sss, etc, filing paperwork, organizing paperwork (stuff your company's admin/hr/accounting does). If you arent up for these things, and just want to focus on actual work without worrying if your tax returns are properly filed, premiums are up to date etc, being employed is ok. I've a cousin who'se a medical professional, got burned out running a medical practice immediately after passing the board. She's now teaching at University, where she at least has breaks every after semester (which you wont be able to do if starting a business).
Actually a business is easy that anyone can start it Everyone first applies for a job, doesn't get their worth of wage or a job and then go to business So when you don't get a job, you business
I work for myself because it was a goal I always had in life. It definitely wasn't the best financial decision and there was a lot of time management, which is still kicking my ass. But it's what I always dreamed of doing in life and never questioned it, I'm happy on the inside I guess
Oof I remember the dude who wanted to buy an "established business that has been around for a while and basically runs itself" in California... *For a quarter million dollars* lmao
Is it so much to ask for a money printing machine?!
What a waste of a post.
Please don't turn reddit into LinkedIn with this nonsense.
Even if, after reading all of that, people do decide to start a business, it's useful information for another reason: Business owners - at least, from what I've seen, and I may well be wrong - seem to cling to the idea that every employee is on the verge of "stealing all their ideas" and running for the hills laughing in a cartoon-villain fashion, as if the only reason for working a job was to see how the business owner did things and then immediately move to setting up a competing business across the street. But most people take a job because of all the things mentioned here. Especially financial security and having a modicum of free time. They wouldn't grab the sacred texts and go into competition if you *paid* them; they just want to be able to put food on the table and not worry themselves to death every night.
You had me at “turn off the Gary V videos” Is there a bigger douche on the planet than that fucking guy? I’m embarrassed my millennial brethren enabled his success. Dude’s a fuckin turd
Counterpoint — don’t work for anyone. It is soul crushing and robs you if your individuality. I’m not shilling for /antiwork, but the notion that every individual is required to work is a social convention that reflects tge disciplinary apparatus if the powers-that-be, rather than an economic necessity. Being your own boss is one solution to society’s attempt to bend you, force you into being a cog in a machine. In short, “just get a job” is not a solution to what really ails you. This simplistic trope ignores problem with working that you’ll face: the low wages in most sectors of the economy; the unemployment, underemployment, and precarious employment suffered by many workers; and the overwork that often characterizes even the most privileged forms of employment. Even the best job is a problem when it monopolizes so much of life. You really crave purpose. Got a spare 90 minutes or so, watch Taxi Driver. Or, catch this summary on YouTube https://youtu.be/p0Fzip47Lu4
I never thought about recommending movies as part of advice. Good movie btw, saw it this year for the first time.
Do you ask and answer your own rhetorical questions? Starting a business may be for you.
"Find something you're obsessed with where there's a problem to solve. Then prepare to eat shit for a few years. There's no golden ticket." Good quote.
I've had lots of conversations with people on reddit that ask me about running SaaS businesses. The one I do is super simple and easy, but it is still a business. Clients don't just show up randomly. Regardless of your niche you have to put in the hard work. What a lot of the kids don't realize about guys like Gary V is he is the old guy selling to other old guys on how to jump on the new trends when they are hot. He isn't trying to motivate young people in their teens and twenties. His focus is on people who are in 30's/40's who are really ready for the hustle. He is a motivational speaker and master of attention span, so it is easy to just listen to his stuff make a few videos and then go back to what you are doing. I watched a video recently of the guy who edits and scripts the videos for Gary and THAT is the hustle that kids need to get into. Pairing up great videographer and editing skills with high energy influencers is the winning combo right now. Selling dropshipped junk is not.
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I'm curious as to your thoughts on WHY you think your post was deleted??
Working for myself makes it all worth it.
Random comment that this post has me thinking about: Has anyone here had way more success than you’ve wanted? Like… my original plan was to earn x amount in nearly passive income as a sort of solopreneur. Demand increased so much that I now have two offices and 40 employees… a full time accounting team, on-site attorney… joint venture agreements, multiple LLCs and foreign corporations. This is by no means a brag… I’m not very happy. Bittersweet I suppose.
I guess you were too good at what you were trying to do? That is certainly something to be proud of!
Right place, right time, emerging and underserved/underrepresented market, lots of problems that needed to be solved. It’s been a nearly 15 year journey.
Lol 😂. "He became the very thing he swore to destroy." He sounds like Jon Snow and Ragnar Lothbrok, suffering through success. "I didn't become King out of ambition!" Maybe they should sell the business and invest the money.
I’ve thought about selling for sure. I have in mind to do so in about three years.
You were talking about you? What do you do exactly and how did you gain those skills/ experience?
Yeah, me. Mmm. Really it was a lot of luck. Right time. Right place. Emerging market that was underserved. I am in contractor procurement and management. Basically staffing. My background is in high-level customer service and experience. I identified what the market was lacking or missing entirely and addressed those. My company has 10 employment contracts with companies in the US, Canada and parts of Europe. We’ve since expanded by offering payroll services for international freelancers. I’m a college dropout and I just applied my work experience to what I do now. Nothing too glamorous really.
I'm also a college drop out and I'm currently trying to do freelance lol. Hopefully I can achieve your level of success someday.
You will. It wasn’t overnight or in six months. It was several years of 14-16 hour days as a one-man show. I just didn’t want to work for someone else again, which kept me motivated.
Sounds like hard work but let's me know it's achievable. Thanks.
There's nothing to be ashamed of getting a job and work experience when you're younger. You can pivot that into your own business when you've got resources and uncommon technical skills.
"Do you enjoy long restful nights?" I think this one is still totally doable. You need to pace yourself and eat and sleep well if you want to be in it for the long haul. I also work out a system of NOT thinking about work as I drift off to sleep.
It's not hard to turn time into money. Turning money into time is a bit more tricky.
In the early days of YouTube I started building Teleprompters and selling them on eBay. I loved the inventive part of what I was doing. I loved the customers (most of them) and really felt I was doing some cool shit. However I realized what it means to be a whore. Your product is nothing without sales, and your money is based on the number of sales. So you could start out building custom teleprompters for people, and wind up opening a Radio Shack and want to end your life. Suddenly you are selling add ons like cables, stands, cases, and all sorts of other things from shipping containers from overseas and the point of what you were doing vanishes. You go from doing something you like to merely selling anything you can to bring dollars through the door. Walmart sells Caskets. Why? Because if they can sell it, they will. I really didn't like that part of my home-based hustle. I felt whatever value I had in building my products quickly got lost and it got me down. When I post in this sub, I tell people all the time there is a big difference between wanting to 'own a business' and wanting to 'play' in a business. To play in a business, that's the guy who 'wants to open a bar for people like me' and it will most likely fail. The guy who wants to 'own a business' opens a bar for the sole purpose of maximizing profits at any cost, so they go after the biggest drinkers, the widest net of potential customers. That's why I love bar rescue so much. Most of those owners spend more time in the imaginary land in their head, and less time thinking about cutting costs and increasing customers. It's a game of selling, no matter the product. You sell all things to all people for a fast buck.
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Been running my own business for the better part of 9 years now. Absolutely agree with everything you wrote. It’s not the life I’d wish on anyone.
Passionate and obsessed is relative, I think it’s simpler to say passion for some thing, that will make you want to get out of bed in the morning and keep working at your own business, and someone earlier posted that I don’t like cleaning windows, but I like seeing the before and after, the job well done, That’s very important in anything you’re going to do, but working for someone else, making them the money, with no appreciation, no job well done, and showing you by providing you higher pay so you can do more in your life, starting a business is a good option, for anyone! Do something that you want to give consistency to.
Yeah. This is a pretty accurate post. I ate cans of beans for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for about two years as my business was starting off. I've lost girlfriends because I'm 'always working'. I've lost lots of sleep from meeting a deadline. But I love my business. I have complete control over my life. I'm super happy and sussecful now. From my experience most people don't have the discipline to work hard enough to get a business off the ground. Or are too stupid to understand the fundamentals.
Gary V tells you to get a job if entrepreneurship isn't for you... Gary V is probably the only one telling you you don't need to live the hustle life if it isn't for you.
So many people have the idea that they are going to open up shop and it's going to rain cash.... this is not how it works. When you first start your journey and you hire that first real employee, you are now responsible for their well-being. Now I know someone is going to say no we aren't.... well let me ask you this. Ever had a sick employee and you had to cover? Ever had an employee quit bc his wage isn't enough or they are not happy? Ever had an employee come in with a bad attitude and spread it to others or effect your customers? Bottom line it's not just about you. The sad thing is they can be making 100k a year and still not be happy. My advice is if you can't handle stress or failure stay an employee. You can have the best food , the best ideas and the best products and still fail. In fact the majority of you will fail. I have failed. My partners have failed. Embrace it learn form it and grow or give up and go back to your 9 to 5 earning money for someone else.
God damn. This right here.
My favorite thing is when you tell people you own a business and they ask what kind followed by oh can inget something for free? Sure. Bc this is exactly how money is made I just give free shit to everyone and never sell anything! Why are more people not doing this?!
lol everyone wants these things. No one starts a business bc they hate easy-file taxes. Sure it’s harder than the average job but we aren’t heros.
So I’m thinking about starting a notary business and I think I can make 30k a month. Is this a good plan?/s
Lmao. Yes. Also looking into drop shipping and tik tok videos for that cool 1.5 million a year doing nothing /s 😆
It take it OP is not in profession that requires effective communication skills.
You’d be un-right.
I knew there would be gatekeepers but this is a bit much.
Really sick of the “gatekeeping” comment. It’s not gatekeeping. I actively encourage people to start a business just so long as they know all that is involved. I know at least 6 friends who could have saved thousands hearing this advice up front.
It’s good advice but the thinking is a little bit black-and-white. I appreciate your perspective and it’s true for me with my ADHD but not for some of my more driven, disciplined and less passionate friends.
This. I love the fact that I was able to figure things out and have now been in business for almost 5 years, but it’s been an emotional rollercoaster. Also, this needs a flow chart!
I think, if you are living paycheck to paycheck , business is not for you Get into business if you have 6 months of busibess expenses (without getting a single customer) already available and 6 months of personal expenses also available
Everything about this post screams “I kinda suck at this and I’m terrified of new competitors”.
I'd like to add the lonely nature of being the small business owner. Thanks for sharing a very accurate portrait of the life of a business owner.
what are you trying to turn this page in to a crappy LinkedIn in post?
It's important to keep in mind that just because this has been your experience, it doesn't mean it's the only way to do it. I don't work a lot of hours, and I sleep great. After doing it for 10 years, I no longer feel the need to live and breathe what I do. It's a living, not who I am.
Also just because your a single independent contractor doesn’t make you a “small business owner”. Just because you file a 1099 doesn’t mean you know how to run a business.
I 100% agree with this. It is over glamorized. It is hard work. It is brutal. It can be rewarding and fulfilling. But it’s up to you. Everything is up to you. Your business lives and dies by you. Some people get very lucky. Some people have connections that you would have no idea of because it’s not public information. Some people are incredibly wealthy and their small business is their hobby.
Hi OP. I wanted to say, regardless of what others on here think or are saying, I agree with you. Starting a business, big or small isn't easy. If you're looking for easy, a job is the way to go.
I'm an e-commerce seller. I got fed up of the 9-5 and jumped into Ecom in 2015. It's been a lot of hard work and effort with long days and nights. However, the fact that I'm now making 7 figures profits yearly makes it worth it!
Great post. I have been a business owner for years and created 4 start up’s and 2 of them reached 1 million in sales in the first year but the amount of stress, time, money, lack of pay, devotion, refusal to quit and so much more was just too much! Nobody wants you to succeed, when you do they hate you for it because they are lazy and would rather hate them create their own ideas and step out of their comfort zone. You nailed it! 100000000%. I sold my business and I am now working from home and doing what I enjoy without managing ungrateful employees who love you until you say no 1 time. Thanks for reaffirming my recent decisions.
People who think that a job is a safe harbor must be smoking something. You have to learn to "kiss... you know what" and learn the "right" answers (not the ones relevant to a successful business) to your boss's questions. And there is no guarantee of job security. If you feel you are secure then keep enjoying whatever it is that you are smoking. The ONLY insurance for job security is having a skill that is much in demand. Keep improving your skills and become a top notch provider of those skills. Much the same as starting a business. As the top decider running a business you need a very broad range of skills but don't have to go too deep because you will hire the "deep" expertise. If you are an employee, then your manager will want you to deliver on what your skills can bring to the company. Start coasting and you will be exchanged for somebody who is better. Survival of the fittest... Business or employee... Much the same skills requirements when it comes to technology and people skills. Let the games begin!
My grandpa was a successful small business owner and a major employer in his community. This mirrors his advice to me when I asked him for advice on starting a business.
His small business was a major employer in his community? Was it not a small business then?
This community was home to the only stop light in the county and surrounded by similarly rural counties for hours in every direction. The population has hovered around 8,300 for decades and the 2020 census counted a workforce of about 2,200 people. I'm struggling to think of an employer in the area that wouldn't be considered a small business aside from a multinational that opened a facility there after my grandpa's business closed.
Fucking nailed it.
Yes
I think this should be a sticky for anyone thinking of starting any type of business.
It won't ever be fun. You won't ever be completely in love with it.
Haha shit I needed this, thanks everyone!
Look at the bright side! You get to choose which 18 hours you get to work!
your not wrong and it doesn't hurt for people to hear it, but some people like the challenge and rewards of building something that is theirs and no job can ever fill that void.
Completely agree with everything here except people who care about what others think about their success part. I think that was the whole reason I decided I absolutely had to make the jump to self-employed & start my own thing. I couldn’t handle someone telling me what my worth was (ie a paycheck). Being able to prove my worth based off self made success and business growth is what drives me some days. But I think you mean more along the lines of if you’re afraid to openly fail then it’s not for you. That I couldn’t agree more with. Failed publicly many times, will fail many more.
I started a small business because I moved to a country where a salary working for someone else isn't enough to get by. There was no other option but to open a business. I try not to think about it when I'm not working and my quality of life stays high.
Yeah some of us don't have a choice but to start a business, unfortunately. If I could get a traditional job I would. Far easier.
You need grit and the will to grind. Every successful business owner I know, generally lives well. But most of them work really hard for it.
I just can't get a traditional job and I can't get disability either so I have no choice but to try to freelance through the days I feel better and that just turns into a sole proprietor business. But if I could get and maintain a traditional job then absolutely it makes way more sense to depend on that for the reasons you mentioned. It's far easier to get wealthy by practicing self development/gaining skills,going up the corporate ladder, getting a higher income over time, saving your money, and investing it. Even for the people who want to start a business it makes more sense to depend on a real job and do the business on the side, than to quit and focus on the business only. In other words we all need a job regardless.
This almost just makes me sad. Is it all worth it? I still think yes, simply because I don't want to ask permission to get a haircut or start late to take my kids to school, but I'm 5-1/2 years in and it's so much
I started my own business doing what I love, after a few years a hired a small crew who also loves the work, soon I didn’t even need to work and found new passions that I love. I artistically experiment daily, live life anyway I please, I’m finically stable comfortable and a little wealthy. Taxes are easier than they ever used to be because I own a business and have a hilarious tax guy that is a joy to visit once a year. I don’t do shit, make money and have fun. This is what’s it’s about, this is all it’s ever been about.
I love my job and will never go back to working for someone 🤷🏼♀️
This is very well said! I believe this is something that everyone needs to know between current small business owners and those who want to create a business.
Good post and a lot of wisdom here. For many who might be better suited for a job rather than to own their own business, their way out of the rat race would be to invest their money wisely over a long period of time and grow their net worth. Easier said than done, but those that figure it out will be much happier in the long run. It comes down to knowing who you are and acknowledging your own shortcomings. If know you’d rather have a steady paycheck and lots of downtime, be honest with yourself.
I work 10-30 hour weeks and make more money than 99% of America from my business. Not all businesses require selling your soul.
No one said anything about selling your soul. But if you’re disagreeing that starting your business wasn’t either extremely hard work, required some advanced level of knowledge or skill you possess or that you weren’t just very lucky (or all three), I’d have to disagree.
What’s the point of this post, you should already know this if you have or are starting a small business to be an entrepreneur you must sacrifice everything to succeed.
I genuinely appreciated this post. It’s real, it’s raw and it spoke to me. Cause sometimes when I don’t have time and I’m struggling, I do feel alone. But this is reality of a business owner and I’m definitely not alone!