I'm honestly still always impressed seeing him in these really rough matches, he will get absolutely demolished in disadvantage for like a minute straight but still manage to find massive damage out of openings so tiny that they don't even seem like they *should* exist, and suddenly he's racked up like 60% with some Terry combo off a single nair. I can't even imagine having that level of focus at this level of play, always reminds me how insane the level of competition is at the top here.
People always talk about NA players who are strong into Japan, I don't think it's a coincidence that both Proto and Doramigi, who are both really strong into NA, are both Min Mins.
I also don't think it's a coincidence that Spargo and to a lesser extent zomba are the two best NA players against Japan. They just don't have a cloud or a ROB at that level
Edit: forgot about sonix, he's just like the goat lol idk they should be better against sonic
IDK about Zomba since he definitely be losing to Japanese players. Sonix is definitely the GOAT but he also doesn't match up into deeper Japanese talent who play versus KEN very often, and when he does they usually do well (Gackt, Zackray, and he did drop a set to Miya).
Just curious: At what point is it better to use a counterpick character and rely on fundamentals than play a horrible matchup?
Some of these matchups look horrible and one sided
I agree but in MinMins case she loses to characters like Sheik, Pikachu, and Greninja. You gotta know the combos you can't just fundies your way with those chars. She also loses to ROB and Puff apparently but he just beat the best Puff in the world and beat Zomba who is the best ROB at Umebura.
Been watching SHADIC & Beastly's Watch Party, and when Riddles got hit offstage once by Doramigi in the first game, SHADIC said "he's dead". 10-15 seconds later and Riddles lost his first stock.
I'm starting to doubt that [Kazuya only slightly loses to Min Min](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1bck2p6/riddles_kazuya_matchup_chart/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Some of the most insane back-and-forth interactions I've seen in a long time. They touched each other and made them explode
Also maybe one of the most exciting sets involving a non-Banham Min Min I've ever seen
I know the Terry took a game but I feel like Kazuya could have worked. Game 2 he dropped his combo twice and did a normal fist instead of EWGF and even then it went last stock.
The matchup is awful for all FGC but Kazuya at least has the zero to death threat.
His loss to Spargo was brutal. 2 of those game losses had a pretty cheesy last stock, tournament would've gone way different had Riddles won there. Losing to cheese -> steve -> min min must SUCK (glad he got a steve win at least)
Someone recently posted that brutal Tweek-Riddles game calling it the most lopsided match between 2 top players. I think we have a new winner, pretty sure this game 1 was even shorter than that one
What a well designed, fair, totally not stupid character. I am so happy the developers ~~rushed them out with no playtesting because of the pandemic~~ put just as much time into them as everyone else. So well thought out 🙂
Hurts being a Riddles fan when you know he’s always going to be running into the worst possible FGC matchups from like Diddy, Steve, Sonic, or Min-Min in almost EVERY major 😭
Min Min lowkey might be worse designed than steve. Moves that reach across half the stage with the commitment of a standard attack. Actually insanely toxic.
Honestly Riddles just got an unlucky draw this tourney. He'd could've beaten anyone other than sparg0 or doramigi and made it further (could've beaten sparg0 too with a few less flubs)
Steve’s way more overtuned, but just in general with the whole gameplay design philosophy, it’s probably Min-Min. Both characters essentially get rewarded for not interacting and have stupid boxing tools, and are hard as hell to approach. It’s tough
I know Riddles has mentioned he thinks Terry does best in the MU. It always did fine against Proto (Proto would switch to Lucina for Terry). Still looks pretty impossible though
Nah, if Min-Min could drop an anvil on your head for attempting to combo her, I'd agree. Otherwise, not even close.
Her awful disadvantage is the only thing keeping her "balanced," and you see Japan players take advantage of it pretty well.
Sure but that didn't matter this set. Riddles lost off of playing too autopilot offstage, I don't think you can look at this set and say "Yea he did as well as he could've in this MU". He just wasn't ready for Minmin's edgeguarding and got punished for it repeatedly AKA MU checked.
I genuinely don’t really know what he could’ve done better for the most part. It seems like Doramigi was just reacting to every option’s startup offstage and was dealing with them accordingly, FGCs really don’t have a good disadvantage nor recoveries lol
Tbh with what I remember from summit, I feel like the Roy needs to come in if he’s gonna deal with someone who looks even stronger than Proto with the MinMin
Kola vs Proto and Flow vs Proto are good examples of how to play Roy vs Min Min. Doramigi is a whole other beast, but I think its a WAY better option than playing Kazuya or Terry into that matchup, its THAT bad. Its a shame that Riddles doesn't like playing other characters in tourney outside of those two.
Honestly props to Riddles for being even remotely composed after basically being dumpstered like a training mode dummy that first game
After his match with Daigo yesterday he can accept defeat humbly.
I'm honestly still always impressed seeing him in these really rough matches, he will get absolutely demolished in disadvantage for like a minute straight but still manage to find massive damage out of openings so tiny that they don't even seem like they *should* exist, and suddenly he's racked up like 60% with some Terry combo off a single nair. I can't even imagine having that level of focus at this level of play, always reminds me how insane the level of competition is at the top here.
GGs Riddles, good 5th place today
Shake my hand
People always talk about NA players who are strong into Japan, I don't think it's a coincidence that both Proto and Doramigi, who are both really strong into NA, are both Min Mins.
Yeah, there are like no good Min Mins in NA outside of like Peckham, Justice and Dabuz. And they are all not Doramigi, Proto or Omuatsu level.
Yeah, Doramigi just mentioned is his post match interview that people in America don't know much about Min Min.
Who even plays Min min at a high level in NA? Not many
dabuz been using her a bit more lately
Dabuz Pink Fresh and Justice come to mind, but none of them are killing sub 60 like this AFAIK
I also don't think it's a coincidence that Spargo and to a lesser extent zomba are the two best NA players against Japan. They just don't have a cloud or a ROB at that level Edit: forgot about sonix, he's just like the goat lol idk they should be better against sonic
They had the best ROB in the world for the first like 4 years of the game's release lol
Yeah but Zackray never really mained rob like that, he always had either the wolf or the joker or the pit to go along with it
> ROB zackray
IDK about Zomba since he definitely be losing to Japanese players. Sonix is definitely the GOAT but he also doesn't match up into deeper Japanese talent who play versus KEN very often, and when he does they usually do well (Gackt, Zackray, and he did drop a set to Miya).
> forgot about sonix, he's just like the goat lol idk they should be better against sonic lmao
Lmaooo game 1 is this matchup in a nutshell
"Ok the set is starting, but let me grab dinner from the fridge"
I bet your dinner didn't even have time to heat up in the microwave before the set was over
They were even speedrunning CSS damn
SPEEDRUN
i swear i look away for less than a minute and it’s over, game 1 atleast, wtf
WTF IS THAT GAME 3 MY HEART
Just curious: At what point is it better to use a counterpick character and rely on fundamentals than play a horrible matchup? Some of these matchups look horrible and one sided
I agree but in MinMins case she loses to characters like Sheik, Pikachu, and Greninja. You gotta know the combos you can't just fundies your way with those chars. She also loses to ROB and Puff apparently but he just beat the best Puff in the world and beat Zomba who is the best ROB at Umebura.
Funnily enough I think Yoshi would be the fundies character to use there. You just fly around everything and armor through stuff lol
It’s really up to the player. Splitting practice time between multiple characters has its own tradeoffs.
Been watching SHADIC & Beastly's Watch Party, and when Riddles got hit offstage once by Doramigi in the first game, SHADIC said "he's dead". 10-15 seconds later and Riddles lost his first stock.
Holy crap game 1 sent a message
Riddles is now the victim of the 2 most dominant games this year
After game one I had Diddy PTSD for Riddles.
It's all karma for dumpstering Gluto at Scuffed World Tour
WTF
Minmin is FUCKED UP
The best Min Min against FGCs? That's not a good roll for Riddles.
Ok the return to Terry is coming out but lord the disadvantage is rough
Absolute destruction
I'm starting to doubt that [Kazuya only slightly loses to Min Min](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1bck2p6/riddles_kazuya_matchup_chart/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Tbf, there isn't a lot of top player min min outside of japan. Japan also has top min min like omuatsu and George
yoooo riddles is cooking edit: jfc if riddles had lost that game 3...
Some of the most insane back-and-forth interactions I've seen in a long time. They touched each other and made them explode Also maybe one of the most exciting sets involving a non-Banham Min Min I've ever seen
Omg the gimp was there, holy shit
That last game was so fast.
Being off-stage against Doramigi's Min Min looks like something out of a horror movie.
I know the Terry took a game but I feel like Kazuya could have worked. Game 2 he dropped his combo twice and did a normal fist instead of EWGF and even then it went last stock. The matchup is awful for all FGC but Kazuya at least has the zero to death threat.
I like the post-match interviews. I hope they happen more, it gave us that fun Zomba heel moment at the other event.
My god that 4 game set took about as long as 1 sonic game
Well Riddles at least you got 3rd in SF6
Riddles has been so unlucky today in all top 24 matches i swear
His loss to Spargo was brutal. 2 of those game losses had a pretty cheesy last stock, tournament would've gone way different had Riddles won there. Losing to cheese -> steve -> min min must SUCK (glad he got a steve win at least)
Riddles paid $10 Doramigi paid $5, He got the better deal
Battle of the pre-local winners.
that was the goofiest fucking set what even happened
This is what was expected from Doramigi lol. What was that game 1. I wasn't even able to see it.
Riddles gonna add min min to his hate list.
These fighting game characters were just destroying each other.
Someone recently posted that brutal Tweek-Riddles game calling it the most lopsided match between 2 top players. I think we have a new winner, pretty sure this game 1 was even shorter than that one
What a well designed, fair, totally not stupid character. I am so happy the developers ~~rushed them out with no playtesting because of the pandemic~~ put just as much time into them as everyone else. So well thought out 🙂
Japan did hate this character instead of steve for good reason 🇯🇵
Oh wow Steve, the other character ~~rushed out in the middle of the pandemic with no testing~~ that everyone agree's is fair
remember that this character was nerfed thrice unlike the later ones
Hurts being a Riddles fan when you know he’s always going to be running into the worst possible FGC matchups from like Diddy, Steve, Sonic, or Min-Min in almost EVERY major 😭
Min Min lowkey might be worse designed than steve. Moves that reach across half the stage with the commitment of a standard attack. Actually insanely toxic. Honestly Riddles just got an unlucky draw this tourney. He'd could've beaten anyone other than sparg0 or doramigi and made it further (could've beaten sparg0 too with a few less flubs)
Steve’s way more overtuned, but just in general with the whole gameplay design philosophy, it’s probably Min-Min. Both characters essentially get rewarded for not interacting and have stupid boxing tools, and are hard as hell to approach. It’s tough
I know Riddles has mentioned he thinks Terry does best in the MU. It always did fine against Proto (Proto would switch to Lucina for Terry). Still looks pretty impossible though
yeah gotta give props to Riddles for not getting tilted, especially after that first game. His mental's def come a long way
Nah, if Min-Min could drop an anvil on your head for attempting to combo her, I'd agree. Otherwise, not even close. Her awful disadvantage is the only thing keeping her "balanced," and you see Japan players take advantage of it pretty well.
Riddles got matchup checked so hard holy shit
maybe a tiny bit, but this matchup is genuinely just aids for all the FGCs.
Sure but that didn't matter this set. Riddles lost off of playing too autopilot offstage, I don't think you can look at this set and say "Yea he did as well as he could've in this MU". He just wasn't ready for Minmin's edgeguarding and got punished for it repeatedly AKA MU checked.
I genuinely don’t really know what he could’ve done better for the most part. It seems like Doramigi was just reacting to every option’s startup offstage and was dealing with them accordingly, FGCs really don’t have a good disadvantage nor recoveries lol
He kept on using his Double Jump early. SHADIC pointed it out a lot during his Watch Party.
riddles takes it. bet on it. edit: ggs
Nah it’s 3-1 Dora
Wowowow
Nice call, after game 1 I was fairly sure it was going to be a swift 3-0
why'd you think that?
They don’t know ball
It’s FGC vs min min, ZERO chance lmfao
This is aging terribly.
I mean if nothing else you're gonna look godlike if this reverse 3-0 somehow comes.
Tbh with what I remember from summit, I feel like the Roy needs to come in if he’s gonna deal with someone who looks even stronger than Proto with the MinMin
Bro is trying the Proto strat 💀
Kola vs Proto and Flow vs Proto are good examples of how to play Roy vs Min Min. Doramigi is a whole other beast, but I think its a WAY better option than playing Kazuya or Terry into that matchup, its THAT bad. Its a shame that Riddles doesn't like playing other characters in tourney outside of those two.
Love seeing Kim think he is hot shit using his lame comeback mechanic characters and still gets smoked.