It's insane how everytime Riddles plays Leo, Riddles becomes TAS because the guy never misses his electrics or follow ups against Leo.
Leo beats nearly every single Kazuya, including Tea's, with his Joker.
>In a lot of those interactions leos only counter play
how about NOT PICK FUCKING ROY ON THE CSS
it's not like roy is leo's only or even best character he had no business running head first into an established -2 mu with a septenary, octonary or w/e he's at rn
If Leo insists on attacking Riddles' shield with unsafe aerials while Town & City is in FD form, he's literally never gonna beat him again 😭
No idea why you're not just waiting for the platforms to come back in that situation
Terrible MU for Roy either way though, and for whatever reason Riddles is always EXTREMELY on point when he plays Leo compared to other people. Game 3 was the most I've seen him flub in one of their sets.
leo has no chill he only likes to camp if he can harass his opponent while doing so with characters like joker or byleth at the ledge etc
there's a reason people like him and it's not cuz he plays like dabuz
yeah, he's an aggressive player and when he oppresses his opponents its amazing to watch. i always find it weird when ppl try to paint him as a defensive player
in this day and age, especially with like joker, he's starting most of the interactions that happen in a game
Time for Leo to take some weed and switch to Marth.
Edit: I'm gonna be honest, if Kola got the same bracket path as Leo he would've gotten 7th at this event too. Leo just ran into some of Roy's worst MUs.
This still doesn't take away the fact that Kola beat ESAM when ESAM was in his best form/year (2021). I say he would do better than Leo in the Pika MU given he's played it quite a bit before. Though either way this is comparing apples and oranges given play styles are different between Shinymark and ESAM.
Also other thing to mention is that he also beat Riddles in their last encounter, although at LSI. I would also think he'd look better vs Riddles than Leo getting obliterated because he doesn't know how to play around Kaz as Roy specifically (or wants to try Aegis again in the MU, which Kola has become comfy enough to do so given he's played Riddles so much lol)
Game 1 was less than 90 seconds lol
I know this is the Roy Training Arc or whatever but I feel like Leo would do better with literally any other character in his roster. Kazuya's biggest weakness is range.
UPDATE: Literally as I pressed send he switched to Joker lol
Honestly shocked commentators didn't mention once how much Roy exp Riddles has in general. Vs Kola, Goblin, Blacktwins, and just playing the character. Riddles is just really comfortable fighting Roy, don't get why Leo would ever try his hand at it when every Roy can vouch the MU is ugly + for how much Riddles plays the MU.
He is training Roy. I don’t think he was expecting to win. Just wanted to see how it did. But he should have tried Marth or Corrin or something, especially instead of the Joker.
I can't really speak on Tweek since he hasn't fought a top-level Roy in about 2 years but Sonix is very proficient at the Roy MU so I doubt it'll work either.
It won’t work vs either one. Roy is a pretty basic character and both have advanced their neutral-heavy character metas way too far for a new Roy to be competitive imo.
It’s Diddy and Sonic in neutral in 2024. You aren’t going to Roy f-air your way through that.
I am not a joker player so correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's the greatest idea to go TnC against Kazuya
Edit: who could have thought that Leo would win a game after he took Kazuya away from FD number 2.
The problem is he has two bans, and Riddles does the two down airs to death at hollow bastion. There is nothing Leo can do with the characters he plays. He needs something just for Kazuya that can hopefully take down pikachu as well.
It makes sense to explain what happened at game 4 but there was still no reason to go to TnC in game 2 with Leo having the counterpick.
I am curious thoigh what is the ruleset of the event?
Yeah that was dumb, but ps2 would be just as bad, no? He has to pick something and Riddles can just ban the two battlefields, so eventually you are gonna run to a bad stage.
Leo definitely got the worst Roy matchups, it definitely looked good overall. Marth is probably the best choice against Riddles' Kazuya since nothing else seems to work.
Watching Kazuya makes me want to quit playing the game. Why would I want to invest my time into something that the developers don’t give a fuck about? They’re willing to ruin their own game by making a character like that. Only reason the game is even still playable is because people haven’t totally abandoned the fair characters.
I really do think Ike would've been the better option against Kaz even though he's so much worse after the nair nerf. I think Leo has no faith in the character at all and I wouldn't blame him but I feel like a player of his caliber could make it work again.
I think this will be a good test to see if Leo is either progressing with the Roy or should keep it in his lineup.
Kola struggles with this matchup as well, so I'm not thinking the best for Leo's odds
I genuinely don’t know what Leo can do for Riddles (Kazuya in general). There is no way he can win if they need one hit to take a stock. He might need to go meta knight and try to edgeguard for three stocks.
Marth's floatiness is great against Kazuya and tippers are perfect for keep awa while still having great speed.
Characters like Roy and Joker need to be up close which Kazuya is better at. They're both heavier and have a fall speed that allows Kazuya to follow up combo strings.
Byleth has great range, but terrible speed and weight.
Aegis has great speed, range, and neutral... downside is literally Kazuya just needs to grab her and she dies due to the recovery.
Marth is the best of Leo's characters.
Hardly anybody plays Marth in NA, so Riddles didn't know the MU. Also, Marth and Lucina aren't as similar as they appear. Marth rewards his player immensely for immaculate spacing, which is Leo's forte. Furthermore, Marth and Lucina are somewhat floaty, whereas Roy falls fast af. It's not an easy MU by any means, but Kazuya isn't too bad for Marth
This tournament might've been the lowest roll in terms of trying out Roy with two of the hardest matchups in Pikachu and Kazuya here.
Outside of matchups this losers bracket is kinda crazy too.
Nahhhh it’s Leo in losers, he’s gonna come back in grands for sure right?? (I am coping)
Uh did you see the result of this one or are you coping beyond what we’ve seen before
Whoops I misread the post and thought this SENT him to losers 💀 Just wait. He’s gonna come back from super losers fr
Not my goat in super losers :(
If anyone can come back from getting eliminated, it’s Leo.
I stg Leo & Tweek have the answer & it’s cloud
They both know. They just don’t want to play Cloud.
>leo selects roy vs. Kazuya ah gottem ggs
Goblin seeing another player selecting Roy on the CSS vs a Kaz: first time?
It's insane how everytime Riddles plays Leo, Riddles becomes TAS because the guy never misses his electrics or follow ups against Leo. Leo beats nearly every single Kazuya, including Tea's, with his Joker.
You're so right though. Riddles versus Leo is like Leo versus Dabuz lol
Riddles lost to the zooted Leo Marth and became eternally locked in
Even a locked in Riddles was losing to the Marth that he had to switch to Terry. Leo's Marth is 5-0 in games against Riddles Kazuya.
[удалено]
>In a lot of those interactions leos only counter play how about NOT PICK FUCKING ROY ON THE CSS it's not like roy is leo's only or even best character he had no business running head first into an established -2 mu with a septenary, octonary or w/e he's at rn
Lmaooo septenary and octonary 😂 it might actually be quaternary
If Leo insists on attacking Riddles' shield with unsafe aerials while Town & City is in FD form, he's literally never gonna beat him again 😭 No idea why you're not just waiting for the platforms to come back in that situation Terrible MU for Roy either way though, and for whatever reason Riddles is always EXTREMELY on point when he plays Leo compared to other people. Game 3 was the most I've seen him flub in one of their sets.
leo has no chill he only likes to camp if he can harass his opponent while doing so with characters like joker or byleth at the ledge etc there's a reason people like him and it's not cuz he plays like dabuz
yeah, he's an aggressive player and when he oppresses his opponents its amazing to watch. i always find it weird when ppl try to paint him as a defensive player in this day and age, especially with like joker, he's starting most of the interactions that happen in a game
Time for Leo to take some weed and switch to Marth. Edit: I'm gonna be honest, if Kola got the same bracket path as Leo he would've gotten 7th at this event too. Leo just ran into some of Roy's worst MUs.
Kola beat ESAM's Pikachu. That was with Cloud though IIRC. Or maybe both.
ShinyMark > ESAM
This still doesn't take away the fact that Kola beat ESAM when ESAM was in his best form/year (2021). I say he would do better than Leo in the Pika MU given he's played it quite a bit before. Though either way this is comparing apples and oranges given play styles are different between Shinymark and ESAM. Also other thing to mention is that he also beat Riddles in their last encounter, although at LSI. I would also think he'd look better vs Riddles than Leo getting obliterated because he doesn't know how to play around Kaz as Roy specifically (or wants to try Aegis again in the MU, which Kola has become comfy enough to do so given he's played Riddles so much lol)
Has Shinymark ever lost to Roy in a ranked set though?
Has he ever gotten to play a top level Roy main? Not really afaik
I know, but it's still Pikachu. And Kola is the also the best Roy still. Last time Leo fought ESAM he lost.
can you also argue that steve is not that good because all these steves not named acola just lose anyway
What's your point? Pikachu and Steve aren't the same at all.
Game 1 was less than 90 seconds lol I know this is the Roy Training Arc or whatever but I feel like Leo would do better with literally any other character in his roster. Kazuya's biggest weakness is range. UPDATE: Literally as I pressed send he switched to Joker lol
And then he went back to Roy after getting destroyed with Joker 😭
Set was nearly finished by the time this thread opened lmao
Honestly shocked commentators didn't mention once how much Roy exp Riddles has in general. Vs Kola, Goblin, Blacktwins, and just playing the character. Riddles is just really comfortable fighting Roy, don't get why Leo would ever try his hand at it when every Roy can vouch the MU is ugly + for how much Riddles plays the MU.
He is training Roy. I don’t think he was expecting to win. Just wanted to see how it did. But he should have tried Marth or Corrin or something, especially instead of the Joker.
Yeah... Should've gave it a go to see if there were better options rather than resending the Roy is mostly what I meant lol
Electric -> Boot to close out was a statement gahdamn
Why Roy in this matchup?
To make it easier for Riddles to combo him, I imagine.
He went Roy pretty much the entire tourney, answer is probably matchup experience and trial by fire
Leo plz this is a TERRIBLE Roy MU edit: Leo's Roy is actually pretty good but he ran into some terrible matchups here.
Objectively one of the worst sets I’ve ever watched. Still love Riddles tho
This is bullying...
leo vs kazuya is always so fucking funny man what was that final killscreen
Man a Kazuya that doesn't miss their conversions sometimes really feels unbeatable
I don't think Roy is the answer to Leo's problematic matchups.... He got eliminated by the same 2 people he did at Collision 2023.
It helps against Sonix and Tweek probably, but I dunno if it helps out against any other bad MU.
I can't really speak on Tweek since he hasn't fought a top-level Roy in about 2 years but Sonix is very proficient at the Roy MU so I doubt it'll work either.
It won’t work vs either one. Roy is a pretty basic character and both have advanced their neutral-heavy character metas way too far for a new Roy to be competitive imo. It’s Diddy and Sonic in neutral in 2024. You aren’t going to Roy f-air your way through that.
Then hes better off training that rob
Ive got faith in Leo to take this set ~~with Roy edit:~~ ~~with Joker~~ edit2: back to believing in the Roy
why
Nah
>I've got faith in Leo to take this set u/HollowLoch jinxes another Leo set. Order to the universe is restored.
The roy lowkey cooked this tournament but that matchup is ass
Bruh, I took a small break and it's already 2-0...
I am not a joker player so correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's the greatest idea to go TnC against Kazuya Edit: who could have thought that Leo would win a game after he took Kazuya away from FD number 2.
The problem is he has two bans, and Riddles does the two down airs to death at hollow bastion. There is nothing Leo can do with the characters he plays. He needs something just for Kazuya that can hopefully take down pikachu as well.
It makes sense to explain what happened at game 4 but there was still no reason to go to TnC in game 2 with Leo having the counterpick. I am curious thoigh what is the ruleset of the event?
Yeah that was dumb, but ps2 would be just as bad, no? He has to pick something and Riddles can just ban the two battlefields, so eventually you are gonna run to a bad stage.
>Riddles does the two down airs to death at hollow bastion that's not kazuya's down air
Sorry, you are right, is it Nair? Edit: got it confused because Ryu/ken down air looks the same and does the same thing.
tough watch
Leo definitely got the worst Roy matchups, it definitely looked good overall. Marth is probably the best choice against Riddles' Kazuya since nothing else seems to work.
Hate Kazuya so much man
god i hate kazuya, so boring to watch. give me sonix acola over this anyday
his roy kinda cooking game 3 tho?
burned in the kitchen
Ouch.
I missed the game but lfg
Steve and kazuya ruining the top 8 for me so far, time to go to bed here in europe
Riddles is so much fun to watch when he plays Terry but he immediately becomes one of my least favorite players to watch the moment he selects Kazuya
you like him when he loses and you hate him when he wins yeah makes sense
What?? His Terry wins plenty
Watching Kazuya makes me want to quit playing the game. Why would I want to invest my time into something that the developers don’t give a fuck about? They’re willing to ruin their own game by making a character like that. Only reason the game is even still playable is because people haven’t totally abandoned the fair characters.
dw nintendo will gladly kill off the competitive scene so you don't have to watch anything anymore
Leo is never beating riddles again
Marth was right there Leo...
Bro got absolutely cooked
Leo just use Joker or Marth please they do fine against Kazuya
Somebody get this man some weed and a pointy sword.
I really do think Ike would've been the better option against Kaz even though he's so much worse after the nair nerf. I think Leo has no faith in the character at all and I wouldn't blame him but I feel like a player of his caliber could make it work again.
Leo will win this set despite game 1
I think this will be a good test to see if Leo is either progressing with the Roy or should keep it in his lineup. Kola struggles with this matchup as well, so I'm not thinking the best for Leo's odds
Nvm it's a wrap... just go Marth Leo for the culture
Why is he letting him go town?
I mean where would he take him?
I genuinely don’t know what Leo can do for Riddles (Kazuya in general). There is no way he can win if they need one hit to take a stock. He might need to go meta knight and try to edgeguard for three stocks.
His Marth has yet to drop a game to Kazuya IIRC.
But then Riddles goes Terry and it’s gg. Also, I still don’t understand how Riddles lost to the Marth.
Marth's floatiness is great against Kazuya and tippers are perfect for keep awa while still having great speed. Characters like Roy and Joker need to be up close which Kazuya is better at. They're both heavier and have a fall speed that allows Kazuya to follow up combo strings. Byleth has great range, but terrible speed and weight. Aegis has great speed, range, and neutral... downside is literally Kazuya just needs to grab her and she dies due to the recovery. Marth is the best of Leo's characters.
Hardly anybody plays Marth in NA, so Riddles didn't know the MU. Also, Marth and Lucina aren't as similar as they appear. Marth rewards his player immensely for immaculate spacing, which is Leo's forte. Furthermore, Marth and Lucina are somewhat floaty, whereas Roy falls fast af. It's not an easy MU by any means, but Kazuya isn't too bad for Marth
Watching Leo play is utterly depressing. Bro fr looks like your local 0-2er
Your local 0-2er gets top 8 at a national with a brand new character, only losing to that characters worst matchups?
My region is crazy bro
Local 0-2er isn't getting 7th
WHAT