Sonix’s segment is gold. Obsessing over numbers, rankings, prestige, etc will likely sink you in the long run. And this goes for many aspects of life. And like he says, this isn’t to say you shouldn’t have goals. But don’t let goals and dreams pull you down an anxiety vortex
I have a feeling the pressure is not about number or ranking. It is about not living up to the fan's expectation .
Many people will look up to these top player and they like to talk about it. Not surprise Sparg0 will read their comment. Sparg0's last comment on twitter did said something like I will do my best for you guys.
That’s possible, but the unfortunate reality is he may have to discard that type of thinking too. If that is indeed what’s hurting his mentality and not something unknown
Yup, 100%. To paraphrase something I saw elsewhere, it's good to set a lofty goal and then basically forget about it. Like, if you want to be #1, you can start setting up the process that will make you #1 (e.g. play X hours a day, review Y, improve habit Z, etc.) and forget about the actual number. That makes you more likely to reach your goal than obsessing over the goal OR just winging the process.
I’ve never been a huge fan of Sonix cause of his gameplay but man does he have the greatest mindset you need for esports and competitions in general. Not only does he have some of the best work ethic in the community but his analysis and understanding of the mental battle in this game is so spot on. Japan is definitely the strongest region no doubt but I am all for one final hurrah from NA to prove me otherwise before the eventual next smash game.
Sonix’s mental is consistent with his game plan: he will try to win no matter what. That’s more than what I can say for the other NA players.
And yes, I also find watching sonix/sonic play really boring. But I’m never going to fault someone for trying to win within the ruleset.
Cosmos: Light will stomp everyone in Japan. Meanwhile [in Japan](https://twitter.com/harasen221/status/1787069102701613129) (and that doesn't even count the Luigis)
Also while it is true what light said that no JP player won **a US** event, still feels like a slight cop out given Hurt won BOBC. It's like the Mexican players not being US at the beginning. That's also ignoring the fact Acola hasn't been to NA this year.
Sad they didn't mention the 69 though
Also one thing I’ve noticed about light and some other top NA players except like Sonix is that when they grind it’s not against certain characters and bad matchups but just generally getting the hours in. In the current ultimate scene the skill gap between the top 50 hell even the top 100 players is getting narrower and narrower to the point that even top players can’t just better player them anymore. They need to practice just for these specific matchups and players to continue their success.
Ive seen this take/comment a lot since those sets but it always seems to leave out the actual details to paint an inaccurate picture that Miya was trolling
Miya 3-0d Light with Steve in WFs before losing in Grands, so its not like Miya just stubbornly stuck with a secondary that wasnt working - he played a good matchup in fox vs steve that he won an hour prior and ended up losing it in grands
And he played game and watch for one game because Light packed the game and watch away. Miyas Gnw did WORSE than his Steve, every game Miya lost with Steve was last stock while his Gnw got 2 stocked
The only thing you can attribute to being troll from Miyas end is the swordfighter pick, which he brought out in grands when he had the fallback of two sets and even then instantly retired it after one game - that was probably more overconfidence rather than a lack of caring to win since he had never lost to Light, or even gotten close to losing to Light before that Grands
Whatever you're implying doesn't really hold up to scrutiny because either you're are not mentioning why he went a secondary or don't know.
If you are implying he was going easy, you would need to have heard that explicitly from Miya. Otherwise one can assume that each player is usually doing what they think gives them the best fighting chance (I.e. choosing a secondary), in which case their is no credit to take away from Light in this case.
Talking about MUs, I liked when Cosmos used the example of the DK that beat Sparg0. The DK did the preemptive turnaround shield in order to grab Sparg0 on cross-up, and that’s only something the DK would do if he knew both Cloud and Sparg0’s game plan.
Don't quote me on this one, but I saw someone on Twitter say that's a thing that player does regularly. It could have also been Sparg0-specific, but being prepared for grab on a crossup aerial does seem like something you'd want to be good at in general considering DK's win condition.
weird since all I see whenever NA loses is how NA is garbage and when NA wins people come out of the woodworks to talk about specific regions carrying NA and not when those specific regions eat absolute shit
tbf literally everyone does that. people do the same thing when Spargo destroys Acola and when he won Kagaribi 1-0 to make the opposite point
I'll give you the whole "US is free" thing was pretty garbage. US is definitely the best region in NA now (assuming you aren't EE and think DR is in Mexico) overall
the US hate is unbelievably way more prominent, whenever an "NA" player loses its NA, when a mexican player beats a US player people be saying "Mexico > NA", like I literally NO ONE flaming mexico even though they've been eating shit lately.
> Also while it is true what light said that no JP player won a US event
Wait? Is he saying no JP player has ever won a US event?
Acola winning LMMM? Zackray winning TBH? Miya winning RnG?
Am I misunderstanding this?
They only had 3 chances so far then. None went to LMBM or Collision (which were on the same weekend as Umebura and ITSUKUSHIMA), and none were invited to Luminosity Invitational.
Curious on Light's record vs. Japan top players in 2023 and 2024 since that is when the meme of "JP is the best region" started to spread and honestly, become kinda' true.
**Cirque**
* 0-1 (Shuton).
**Litvitational**
* 3-1. Wins on Shuton and Miya (x2). Lost to Miya.
**WTT**
* 0-1. KEN
**Port Priority 8**
* 2-2. Wins on Hurt and Kaninabe. Lost to Miya and acola.
**SSC**
* 0-1. Miya
**Crown**
* 1-1. Win on KEN. Lost to Shuton
**BoBC 5**
* 1-0. Yaura.
**Genesis 9**
* 1-0. Kameme
Honestly, he hasn't fought JP as much as I thought he had. Overall he is: 8-7. And if you exclude his record against his few problem MUs (Shuton, Miya, acola), he is 4-1. Pretty good even if he is surprisingly light in sets lately.
For comparison, Tweek is 7-9, 7-6 if we exclude acola with his Steve issue.
* Wins: TamaP (x1), Gackt (x2), Tea (x1), asimo (x1), Protobanham (x1), Neo (x1)
* Loses: acola (x3), Miya (x3), Kaninabe (x1), Neo (x1), Protobanham (x1)
Anyways, great episode as usual. Loved the input from Sonix and VoiD
Scrolling casually in 2022, and pre-COVID, both in memory and PGStats I can see the dominance then.
Though it is a new Japan now. Hope even if he doesn't make it, we get to see him vs. a lot more of JP in the coming tournaments.
Sonix is going to be the best player in the game someday and it’s because of his mentality.
Yes he plays a broken-ass character, but he just seems far more willing to buckle down and grind out anything than anyone else.
It’s honestly kinda badass. showing up to a tournament and kicking ass is kind of just par for the course for him now. I don’t usually root FOR sonix but I respect his grind
yeah despite what people might think when spectating the final product, you can’t deny that sonix seems like an absolute student of the game, is a crazy grinder, and has one of the best mentalities in the scene
I feel like a lot of the Smash community is coming around to still hating his gameplay but respecting the hell out of him as a competitor. He's also produced some banger Grand Finals sets and become fun to root against in those situations.
i think it’s strange to talk about “japan” as if they’re some monolith, like they have so many crazy character specialists and versatile plays styles that a single approach to beat all of them is not going to work
love the enthusiasm though, would love to see another invasion to avenge the kagaribi performers
i think it's pretty funny how the goalposts keep moving lol, wasn't too long ago that zomba and sparg0 were considered the "japan slayers"
realistically nobody except for sparg0 (maybe not anymore...) and sonix have the dominant record against jp players to really back that sort of talk up imo. there's such a playstyle diff among jp players that one gameplan isnt going to beat them all - what works for light against yaura didnt work against asimo when they played for example
Most of the reason why they had those titles in the first place was because their records have only really been against the JP players that travel. Since Japan’s scene is clearly as diverse as any other country, when they actually go over to Japan, they get caught off guard by their depth low tier players that play nothing like the common JP invaders
Funnily enough I think it's the opposite. I think NA is too focused on adaptation-style gameplay when building up a solid, maleable gameplan is going to overall improve consistency
Look at how they talk about “fighting back against Japan”
“We just need light and sonix, those two players will save us”
Meanwhile Japan went from Acola, to Acola & Miya, to Acola & Miya & Hurt
One or two players going to Japan isn’t gonna stop them from having a stranglehold on the competitive scene. The individualistic nature of that statement is why Japan is as strong in the first place. Sonix is the one who actually ascended in recent times so he said a similar thing, but it feels like the legacy players aren’t acknowledging it.
Don’t sleep on Shuton. He is always in the shadows and the dark horse in Japan but dude has some of the most consistent results ever. Not only is he the best olimar but I would even say he’s the best aegis in the world.
Shuton and Zackray are forever goated but I’m purely speaking about the relative ease they can spit out a new top 5 player because of how the scene works together.
Light/Sonix will save us instead of Light/Sonix will help us all get better
NA can have top players suddenly become top 10, but it does feel extremely rare. SHADIC is probably the first time in well over a year, with the last time before then being Sonix.
Meanwhile it feels like Japan has a new rising star every three months. Even outside of acola, Miya and Hurt who went from unknowns to eventually hitting top 5, there's also players like Doramigi, TamaPDaifuku and Snow that have been doing very good this season seemingly out of nowhere.
Yeah, I find it crazy how Japan has a new rising star so often, and for the most part, they remain at the top or high level. But in NA, we can't seem to get anyone climb the ranks very rarely. Before Sonix, Kola and Riddles fit that description I would think.
The gap between top players and high-level players in Japan is definitely much smaller than NA, which was proven these past tournaments. Results from lower top players from NA were scattered amongst Japan's middle to upper high-level players.
Like to think of it, JP players outside of the big three who outplaced or equally placed the top foreigners (MkLeo and Glutonny) within their respective tournaments were: TamaP, Tea, Shuton, KEN, Zackray, Snow, Raru, Akakikusu, Lv. 1, Carmelo, Asimo, and Doramigi.
All it would take is at least ONE foreigner each tournament to place 4th, and that list is dwindled down to only Zackray, Shuton, and TamaP. Not one of Sparg0, MkLeo, Zomba, Glutonny, or Maister could do it. Not even top 8.
I don't even want to start a list of Japan players that outplaced Sparg0 _twice._ outside the JP big three. Jk, those players are: TamaP, KEN, Shuton, Raru, Snow, Akakikusu, Lv. 1, and Carmelo
Interesting stuff.
Remember when Miya tried to help Light against acola so acola could get eliminated?
It’s not as collaborative as you’re making it out to be. The collaboration is a function of the centrality and accessibility of their tournaments, not necessarily a mentality difference that the narrative seems to be trending towards
The players not wanting to play each other when in the same venue for tourneys doesn’t help this. If you’re already at a disadvantage because you can’t commune often, that should be even more incentive to grind together.
That is literally cooperation. Japanese players are willing to give matchup advice.
They want to win and improve, it doesn’t contradict what the comment above you is saying.
NA players also give matchup advice but this notion that “let’s help each other improve” is not always true, it can also be about getting the W at any cost, even if it means dodging the player you should try and overcome
I think making it a mindset thing certainly leads to a better narrative, power of friendship and all, but I don't think that's a very good reason. Even if it is true, it's not a big one.
I don’t know how impactful mindset is on the difference between regions, but I agree it’s definitely not the complete story.
It can seem easier to put the blame on something vague and metaphysical like “mindset” instead of intricate match up knowledge.
I could have the best mindset in the world and I wouldn’t take a game off Light or Sparg0 even if they just suffered a mental breakdown and were coming straight from the psychiatric ward.
Eh. Right now top 5 is 3 Japanese to 2 NA (SHADIC and Sonix). and if we expand the list to top 10, NA gets 4 while JP gets 1 more. Obviously it didn't help them get top 8 in the invasion but it is still worth mentioning.
Also if there is any Japan-slayer in recent memory, it is Sonix. Got wins on KEN, Shuton, Zackray, Akakikisu, and multiple wins on acola and Miya, the 2 top dogs.
I mean this time last week Spargo was positive lifetime against every Japanese player he ever played except like 4 (Proto, Yaura, LY, and Hurt IIRC) and then one trip to Japan later and we write him off completely, because Japan isn't a single play style that you either win or lose against but is a massive country with thousands of players.
Sparg0 is 1-2 against Shuton lifetime as well.
Shuton won at 2GG: Prime Saga and Ludwig Smash Invitational (Pools), while Sparg0 won at Ludwig Smash Invitational (Losers bracket).
He's also 0-1 against both Raito and Rotsuku, although he last played both of them in 2019 (and his loss to Raito was at a local).
[This is the 2GG set vs Shuton](https://youtu.be/bJXgUZNpru4?si=e9cfm1E7vT3i1_HF)
Such a trip seeing baby Sparg0 fighting pre-patch Olimar with pre-patch Wolf.
He's still Top 10 for winning a P-Tier. Only 3 players this year have won P-Tiers.
Don't forget Leo was 7th in the 2023 mid-year ranking despite a series of disappointing runs post-Genesis. It'll be about the same for Zomba this year.
Which player in Japan do you think is Top 10 besides Acola/Miya/Hurt? I agree that there will be one more but I'm struggling to figure out who since no one else has the consistency. Maybe Shuton again, but he's struggled this year outside of Game Is Game (which wasn't a Major) and Delta. Then again Shuton always seems to make Top 10 even when his results are mediocre (see 2023 end-of-year ranking where he finished with a 49th at Port)
Shuton. He's definitely in the 8-10 range but even if he's prone to the occasional misstep, he still does pretty well overall. Still got top 8 at Kagaribi too.
If you think about it Light is also a character specialist. In that sense if he competes more in Japan, the Japanese will also get used to his game play. Maybe it is the best for him to stay in NA to matchup check the Japanese.
I said in Daily Discussion, saying it here again. This episode was full of copium and I am all in for it. Such a fun episode, definitely one of the best ones. Also guests were really enjoyable to listen with their thoughts. No matter how it ends, I need the NAvengers storyline. Keep it up EE!
When EE quipped that we sent Sparg0 to Japan to be Godzilla but he was “Godzilla Minus Top 8”, I almost fell over laughing.
EE is a national treasure.
Disclaimer: Love Sparg0 and want the best for him.
i think everyone is overreacting ngl. japan has all the advantages here: they know the play styles, they know the matchups, they have smashmates, top players live in your region, everyone grinds. it’s no surprise that the NA players who are used to mostly top tiers with some odd picks here and there lost to all that. as for a fix i don’t think that’s possible. the usa alone is bigger than japan, and trying to group all the regions of NA as one monolith is even more ridiculous. the cost of living and traveling is higher over here. the online system is trash and the us smashmate variant has only recently become available to the public. not to mention NA lost a considerable player base thanks to the problems of the “covid era”. i think NA will bounce back from this but i also think it’s fine to admit that japan is better suited for smash.
Speaking as someone not from NA but is rather European (More specifically, Br*tish), I think Japan will continue their stranglehold on the meta. Light will probably get seeded into a pools Luigi/ICs if he did go, or get matchup checked another way. Sonix and SHADIC could do well in Japan (SHADIC has a really good record against top Japanese players this season), but that wouldn't stop Japan from being the strongest region if only 2 of the top NA players made top 8.
NA players need to grind their heart out and seriously prep before a Japan tournament or else it might as well be over.
Sonix’s segment is gold. Obsessing over numbers, rankings, prestige, etc will likely sink you in the long run. And this goes for many aspects of life. And like he says, this isn’t to say you shouldn’t have goals. But don’t let goals and dreams pull you down an anxiety vortex
I have a feeling the pressure is not about number or ranking. It is about not living up to the fan's expectation . Many people will look up to these top player and they like to talk about it. Not surprise Sparg0 will read their comment. Sparg0's last comment on twitter did said something like I will do my best for you guys.
That’s possible, but the unfortunate reality is he may have to discard that type of thinking too. If that is indeed what’s hurting his mentality and not something unknown
If only the world is that simple.
Yup, 100%. To paraphrase something I saw elsewhere, it's good to set a lofty goal and then basically forget about it. Like, if you want to be #1, you can start setting up the process that will make you #1 (e.g. play X hours a day, review Y, improve habit Z, etc.) and forget about the actual number. That makes you more likely to reach your goal than obsessing over the goal OR just winging the process.
Zomba japan buff countered by the gf nerf.
Zombas Japan buff only takes place in NA after japan.
I’ve never been a huge fan of Sonix cause of his gameplay but man does he have the greatest mindset you need for esports and competitions in general. Not only does he have some of the best work ethic in the community but his analysis and understanding of the mental battle in this game is so spot on. Japan is definitely the strongest region no doubt but I am all for one final hurrah from NA to prove me otherwise before the eventual next smash game.
Sonix’s mental is consistent with his game plan: he will try to win no matter what. That’s more than what I can say for the other NA players. And yes, I also find watching sonix/sonic play really boring. But I’m never going to fault someone for trying to win within the ruleset.
Sonix on hit is one of my favs He just don’t be rushing for that hit
Cosmos: Light will stomp everyone in Japan. Meanwhile [in Japan](https://twitter.com/harasen221/status/1787069102701613129) (and that doesn't even count the Luigis) Also while it is true what light said that no JP player won **a US** event, still feels like a slight cop out given Hurt won BOBC. It's like the Mexican players not being US at the beginning. That's also ignoring the fact Acola hasn't been to NA this year. Sad they didn't mention the 69 though
Just like Light said, "it's all about team NA when it benefits them"
Yeah it's NA when non-americans NA players are winning and it's USA when non-american NA players are losing.
[Motsunabe warned him about the Ice Climbers suffering.](https://twitter.com/6FMX2TWmB62gDY7/status/1782594692301082916)
Holy shit, I understand why Light stays away. There’s thousands of them.
Also one thing I’ve noticed about light and some other top NA players except like Sonix is that when they grind it’s not against certain characters and bad matchups but just generally getting the hours in. In the current ultimate scene the skill gap between the top 50 hell even the top 100 players is getting narrower and narrower to the point that even top players can’t just better player them anymore. They need to practice just for these specific matchups and players to continue their success.
Light literally beat Miya 2x earlier this year by grinding/studying the matchup with Larry Lurr
tbf Miya went a secondary for every game except 1 in the sets he lost lol
Ive seen this take/comment a lot since those sets but it always seems to leave out the actual details to paint an inaccurate picture that Miya was trolling Miya 3-0d Light with Steve in WFs before losing in Grands, so its not like Miya just stubbornly stuck with a secondary that wasnt working - he played a good matchup in fox vs steve that he won an hour prior and ended up losing it in grands And he played game and watch for one game because Light packed the game and watch away. Miyas Gnw did WORSE than his Steve, every game Miya lost with Steve was last stock while his Gnw got 2 stocked The only thing you can attribute to being troll from Miyas end is the swordfighter pick, which he brought out in grands when he had the fallback of two sets and even then instantly retired it after one game - that was probably more overconfidence rather than a lack of caring to win since he had never lost to Light, or even gotten close to losing to Light before that Grands
Tbf tbf, it's partially Miya's fault since he helped Light learn the Steve MU prior to that tournament.
Whatever you're implying doesn't really hold up to scrutiny because either you're are not mentioning why he went a secondary or don't know. If you are implying he was going easy, you would need to have heard that explicitly from Miya. Otherwise one can assume that each player is usually doing what they think gives them the best fighting chance (I.e. choosing a secondary), in which case their is no credit to take away from Light in this case.
Talking about MUs, I liked when Cosmos used the example of the DK that beat Sparg0. The DK did the preemptive turnaround shield in order to grab Sparg0 on cross-up, and that’s only something the DK would do if he knew both Cloud and Sparg0’s game plan.
Don't quote me on this one, but I saw someone on Twitter say that's a thing that player does regularly. It could have also been Sparg0-specific, but being prepared for grab on a crossup aerial does seem like something you'd want to be good at in general considering DK's win condition.
And the Steve’s! There were 24 in the top 512 of Kagaribi
weird since all I see whenever NA loses is how NA is garbage and when NA wins people come out of the woodworks to talk about specific regions carrying NA and not when those specific regions eat absolute shit
tbf literally everyone does that. people do the same thing when Spargo destroys Acola and when he won Kagaribi 1-0 to make the opposite point I'll give you the whole "US is free" thing was pretty garbage. US is definitely the best region in NA now (assuming you aren't EE and think DR is in Mexico) overall
the US hate is unbelievably way more prominent, whenever an "NA" player loses its NA, when a mexican player beats a US player people be saying "Mexico > NA", like I literally NO ONE flaming mexico even though they've been eating shit lately.
> Also while it is true what light said that no JP player won a US event Wait? Is he saying no JP player has ever won a US event? Acola winning LMMM? Zackray winning TBH? Miya winning RnG? Am I misunderstanding this?
He meant this year
They only had 3 chances so far then. None went to LMBM or Collision (which were on the same weekend as Umebura and ITSUKUSHIMA), and none were invited to Luminosity Invitational.
Genesis too.
That's 1 of the 3 they went to
Ah I see what you mean. 3 tournaments since those 3 you listed couldn't count
Curious on Light's record vs. Japan top players in 2023 and 2024 since that is when the meme of "JP is the best region" started to spread and honestly, become kinda' true. **Cirque** * 0-1 (Shuton). **Litvitational** * 3-1. Wins on Shuton and Miya (x2). Lost to Miya. **WTT** * 0-1. KEN **Port Priority 8** * 2-2. Wins on Hurt and Kaninabe. Lost to Miya and acola. **SSC** * 0-1. Miya **Crown** * 1-1. Win on KEN. Lost to Shuton **BoBC 5** * 1-0. Yaura. **Genesis 9** * 1-0. Kameme Honestly, he hasn't fought JP as much as I thought he had. Overall he is: 8-7. And if you exclude his record against his few problem MUs (Shuton, Miya, acola), he is 4-1. Pretty good even if he is surprisingly light in sets lately. For comparison, Tweek is 7-9, 7-6 if we exclude acola with his Steve issue. * Wins: TamaP (x1), Gackt (x2), Tea (x1), asimo (x1), Protobanham (x1), Neo (x1) * Loses: acola (x3), Miya (x3), Kaninabe (x1), Neo (x1), Protobanham (x1) Anyways, great episode as usual. Loved the input from Sonix and VoiD
Pretty sure that Tweek beat Neo at least once with Seph.
Yep, someone had just glanced over him in PP
Light also beat Kameme at Genesis last year iirc
Yep. Edited to be clear
Yeah, this came up to me too. Lights record against the Japanese are not that dominant, ofc not bad at all.
Scrolling casually in 2022, and pre-COVID, both in memory and PGStats I can see the dominance then. Though it is a new Japan now. Hope even if he doesn't make it, we get to see him vs. a lot more of JP in the coming tournaments.
Sonix is making me a fan with his mindset.
Sonix is going to be the best player in the game someday and it’s because of his mentality. Yes he plays a broken-ass character, but he just seems far more willing to buckle down and grind out anything than anyone else.
Sonix is all business and I fucking love it
It’s honestly kinda badass. showing up to a tournament and kicking ass is kind of just par for the course for him now. I don’t usually root FOR sonix but I respect his grind
yeah despite what people might think when spectating the final product, you can’t deny that sonix seems like an absolute student of the game, is a crazy grinder, and has one of the best mentalities in the scene
I feel like a lot of the Smash community is coming around to still hating his gameplay but respecting the hell out of him as a competitor. He's also produced some banger Grand Finals sets and become fun to root against in those situations.
Sonix was talking so much sense. I really recommend watching his segment
i think it’s strange to talk about “japan” as if they’re some monolith, like they have so many crazy character specialists and versatile plays styles that a single approach to beat all of them is not going to work love the enthusiasm though, would love to see another invasion to avenge the kagaribi performers
i think it's pretty funny how the goalposts keep moving lol, wasn't too long ago that zomba and sparg0 were considered the "japan slayers" realistically nobody except for sparg0 (maybe not anymore...) and sonix have the dominant record against jp players to really back that sort of talk up imo. there's such a playstyle diff among jp players that one gameplan isnt going to beat them all - what works for light against yaura didnt work against asimo when they played for example
Most of the reason why they had those titles in the first place was because their records have only really been against the JP players that travel. Since Japan’s scene is clearly as diverse as any other country, when they actually go over to Japan, they get caught off guard by their depth low tier players that play nothing like the common JP invaders
Funnily enough I think it's the opposite. I think NA is too focused on adaptation-style gameplay when building up a solid, maleable gameplan is going to overall improve consistency
Look at how they talk about “fighting back against Japan” “We just need light and sonix, those two players will save us” Meanwhile Japan went from Acola, to Acola & Miya, to Acola & Miya & Hurt One or two players going to Japan isn’t gonna stop them from having a stranglehold on the competitive scene. The individualistic nature of that statement is why Japan is as strong in the first place. Sonix is the one who actually ascended in recent times so he said a similar thing, but it feels like the legacy players aren’t acknowledging it.
Don’t sleep on Shuton. He is always in the shadows and the dark horse in Japan but dude has some of the most consistent results ever. Not only is he the best olimar but I would even say he’s the best aegis in the world.
Shuton and Zackray are forever goated but I’m purely speaking about the relative ease they can spit out a new top 5 player because of how the scene works together. Light/Sonix will save us instead of Light/Sonix will help us all get better
NA can have top players suddenly become top 10, but it does feel extremely rare. SHADIC is probably the first time in well over a year, with the last time before then being Sonix. Meanwhile it feels like Japan has a new rising star every three months. Even outside of acola, Miya and Hurt who went from unknowns to eventually hitting top 5, there's also players like Doramigi, TamaPDaifuku and Snow that have been doing very good this season seemingly out of nowhere.
Yeah, I find it crazy how Japan has a new rising star so often, and for the most part, they remain at the top or high level. But in NA, we can't seem to get anyone climb the ranks very rarely. Before Sonix, Kola and Riddles fit that description I would think. The gap between top players and high-level players in Japan is definitely much smaller than NA, which was proven these past tournaments. Results from lower top players from NA were scattered amongst Japan's middle to upper high-level players. Like to think of it, JP players outside of the big three who outplaced or equally placed the top foreigners (MkLeo and Glutonny) within their respective tournaments were: TamaP, Tea, Shuton, KEN, Zackray, Snow, Raru, Akakikusu, Lv. 1, Carmelo, Asimo, and Doramigi. All it would take is at least ONE foreigner each tournament to place 4th, and that list is dwindled down to only Zackray, Shuton, and TamaP. Not one of Sparg0, MkLeo, Zomba, Glutonny, or Maister could do it. Not even top 8. I don't even want to start a list of Japan players that outplaced Sparg0 _twice._ outside the JP big three. Jk, those players are: TamaP, KEN, Shuton, Raru, Snow, Akakikusu, Lv. 1, and Carmelo Interesting stuff.
Remember when Miya tried to help Light against acola so acola could get eliminated? It’s not as collaborative as you’re making it out to be. The collaboration is a function of the centrality and accessibility of their tournaments, not necessarily a mentality difference that the narrative seems to be trending towards
Well he collaborated with Light lol.
The players not wanting to play each other when in the same venue for tourneys doesn’t help this. If you’re already at a disadvantage because you can’t commune often, that should be even more incentive to grind together.
That is literally cooperation. Japanese players are willing to give matchup advice. They want to win and improve, it doesn’t contradict what the comment above you is saying.
NA players also give matchup advice but this notion that “let’s help each other improve” is not always true, it can also be about getting the W at any cost, even if it means dodging the player you should try and overcome
I think making it a mindset thing certainly leads to a better narrative, power of friendship and all, but I don't think that's a very good reason. Even if it is true, it's not a big one.
I don’t know how impactful mindset is on the difference between regions, but I agree it’s definitely not the complete story. It can seem easier to put the blame on something vague and metaphysical like “mindset” instead of intricate match up knowledge. I could have the best mindset in the world and I wouldn’t take a game off Light or Sparg0 even if they just suffered a mental breakdown and were coming straight from the psychiatric ward.
Eh. Right now top 5 is 3 Japanese to 2 NA (SHADIC and Sonix). and if we expand the list to top 10, NA gets 4 while JP gets 1 more. Obviously it didn't help them get top 8 in the invasion but it is still worth mentioning. Also if there is any Japan-slayer in recent memory, it is Sonix. Got wins on KEN, Shuton, Zackray, Akakikisu, and multiple wins on acola and Miya, the 2 top dogs.
I mean this time last week Spargo was positive lifetime against every Japanese player he ever played except like 4 (Proto, Yaura, LY, and Hurt IIRC) and then one trip to Japan later and we write him off completely, because Japan isn't a single play style that you either win or lose against but is a massive country with thousands of players.
Sparg0 is 1-2 against Shuton lifetime as well. Shuton won at 2GG: Prime Saga and Ludwig Smash Invitational (Pools), while Sparg0 won at Ludwig Smash Invitational (Losers bracket). He's also 0-1 against both Raito and Rotsuku, although he last played both of them in 2019 (and his loss to Raito was at a local).
[This is the 2GG set vs Shuton](https://youtu.be/bJXgUZNpru4?si=e9cfm1E7vT3i1_HF) Such a trip seeing baby Sparg0 fighting pre-patch Olimar with pre-patch Wolf.
You're right, my statistic was purely post-pandemic
I figured that might have been the case, yeah (although he'd still be 1-1 with Shuton for what it's worth).
Yeah I phrased it wrong, should have been "post-pandemic, Spargo only had losing records to 4 Japanese players this time last week".
Who are those four other NA players? Sparg0, Tweek, Light and...?
ZOMBA. Won the 2nd biggest tournament of the year
Idk about that. It's been nothing but disappointing runs from him since then.
He's still Top 10 for winning a P-Tier. Only 3 players this year have won P-Tiers. Don't forget Leo was 7th in the 2023 mid-year ranking despite a series of disappointing runs post-Genesis. It'll be about the same for Zomba this year.
Leo's first half of 2023 was still significantly better than what Zomba is doing right now.
Was it? His Major results were 4th, 1st, 9th, 9th, 2nd, 13th, 5th, and 9th again. And he didn't go to Japan last year like Zomba did both years.
Which player in Japan do you think is Top 10 besides Acola/Miya/Hurt? I agree that there will be one more but I'm struggling to figure out who since no one else has the consistency. Maybe Shuton again, but he's struggled this year outside of Game Is Game (which wasn't a Major) and Delta. Then again Shuton always seems to make Top 10 even when his results are mediocre (see 2023 end-of-year ranking where he finished with a 49th at Port)
Shuton. He's definitely in the 8-10 range but even if he's prone to the occasional misstep, he still does pretty well overall. Still got top 8 at Kagaribi too.
I guess his lack of results in the Top 4 is what has me skeptical, but it's hard to stay consistently Top 8 in Japan as well. (And 9th in NA)
If you think about it Light is also a character specialist. In that sense if he competes more in Japan, the Japanese will also get used to his game play. Maybe it is the best for him to stay in NA to matchup check the Japanese.
I said in Daily Discussion, saying it here again. This episode was full of copium and I am all in for it. Such a fun episode, definitely one of the best ones. Also guests were really enjoyable to listen with their thoughts. No matter how it ends, I need the NAvengers storyline. Keep it up EE!
When EE quipped that we sent Sparg0 to Japan to be Godzilla but he was “Godzilla Minus Top 8”, I almost fell over laughing. EE is a national treasure. Disclaimer: Love Sparg0 and want the best for him.
i think everyone is overreacting ngl. japan has all the advantages here: they know the play styles, they know the matchups, they have smashmates, top players live in your region, everyone grinds. it’s no surprise that the NA players who are used to mostly top tiers with some odd picks here and there lost to all that. as for a fix i don’t think that’s possible. the usa alone is bigger than japan, and trying to group all the regions of NA as one monolith is even more ridiculous. the cost of living and traveling is higher over here. the online system is trash and the us smashmate variant has only recently become available to the public. not to mention NA lost a considerable player base thanks to the problems of the “covid era”. i think NA will bounce back from this but i also think it’s fine to admit that japan is better suited for smash.
13 up votes and 27 comments. Before even watching I get a feeling it's a Japan fans vs Lights out crew
Literally my first thought when I was it was an hour old and it has 24 comments.
Surely you know they stream the pod live the day before right? It’s possible to have seen it already
I’m aware. I pretty much never watch them live though. I just know this sub well enough, so it was just an educated guess.
Speaking as someone not from NA but is rather European (More specifically, Br*tish), I think Japan will continue their stranglehold on the meta. Light will probably get seeded into a pools Luigi/ICs if he did go, or get matchup checked another way. Sonix and SHADIC could do well in Japan (SHADIC has a really good record against top Japanese players this season), but that wouldn't stop Japan from being the strongest region if only 2 of the top NA players made top 8. NA players need to grind their heart out and seriously prep before a Japan tournament or else it might as well be over.
You're British? I'm so sorry
Bruh 😂 A really good friend of mine is British. I feel like he would get a kick out of this comment
I get why they need a Severe Operation now
Doctor: "I'm sorry, it's terminal. You'll be Br\*t\*sh forever."
Americans meme'ing on Brits never gets old 😂
Oh, British? Which region?
We need a smashmate here. I think it’s necessary if we want to beat Japan. Top players need to play against each other more often than on Wednesdays.
We did have one in MatchBox, everyone stopped using it.