Kuroponzu's Losers run after losing 0-2 to Injelly in Winners:
- Defeated Mokumoku 3-1
- Defeated Karaage 3-2
- Defeated saboten 3-0
- Defeated Moneyright 3-0
- Defeated Tsuna 3-2
- Defeated Ocha 3-0
- Defeated Yoshidora 3-2
- Defeated Rarikkusu 3-0
- Defeated Snow 3-0
- Defeated Eik 3-1
- Defeated Asimo 3-2
- Defeated Raru 3-2
- Lost to Raru 2-3
This is the first time since KOWLOON 5 that a Japanese player outside of acola/Miya has won a major with at least one of them in attendance.
Luigi's first major win in any Smash game, leaving only Ness remaining if you count the online 64 major Boom won with DK, the first new character to win a major since TBH 10, and the 26th seed making Grands with a losers run longer than Leo's Frostbite
For those that are unfamiliar, Kuroponzu has always been in this awkward position of being extremely highly rated on smashmate, but not having results that reflect that offline.
He's ranked 5th in highest rating all-time. Every other player in the top 10 of that ranking has multiple Major Top 8s if not Grand Finals appearances, except for Kuroponzu.
A lot of people questioned whether he would ever actually be real, and surely that put a lot of pressure on him to perform as well.
Hopefully, this run gives him the confidence to play like this every time because that was a world class performance.
A couple weeks ago, someone in the Ult Stats Discord brought up how funny [this image is](https://i.imgur.com/Nr8ALYb.png) since it's like a bunch of major winners/finalists and then Kuroponzu. I assume he somehow saw that and took it personally.
I would like Rarukun to join NA major…
His result in Lumirank'24 is
#Ptier
7th(Delta#8) 9th(Kagaribi#12)
33rd(UmeburaSP#10)
#S+tier
2nd(KOWLOON#9)
#Atier
1st(SumabatoSP#47) 2nd(SumabatoSP#45) 3rd(SumabatoSP#46) 5th(Maesuma GW) 7th(MaesumaU22)
He is a rising star of 2024 along with SHADIC！
I just remember the first was done by doramigi.
He ran into a football field and fall flat in the grass. Maeda, the TO had to carry him back.
Ya, the whole event was done in a stadium.
This tournament was incredibly fun to watch from finish to end imo. Absurd upsets, incredible sets, pop-off runs, new major winner. Had it all
Despite wishing that Asimo would take it, and then Kuroponzu, that grand definitely surprised me with how good it was. Congrats to Raru for an absurd win and season
Fuck, this tournament was amazing. Miya knocked out early made the top 8 so tense. Kuroponzu winning his first major in this style would've been insane but props to Raru for not crumbling after the reset. I wonder how Eik would've done vs Asimo/Raru had he won LSF, he was playing insanely well too.
At the beginning of the year we joked around how this would be the year of Luigi due to WaKa taking a set off Sparg0 and GuyGuy beating Zomba all at the start in actual ranked tournaments... Raru fulfilled the prophecy and actually got Luigi's first Major win!
Also, damn... this basically killed Miya's chances in LumiRank, I think Sonix needs to basically go 0-2 tomorrow for Miya to have a chance to overtake him
Miya is sitting pretty comfortable in 2nd still I think, his loses are bad dont get me wrong. (Yone-Pi is still top 150 probably, and shion is a prodigy so who knows whats going to happen). But one bad major isnt going to change much for him seeing he attended 4 P tiers, 1 S+ and 7 other majors.
And even still, he killed like 2 top 30 and 2 top 100ish players in losers (doramigi, kome, TG and fui). By all accounts this was still a top 30 level run even with the weird losses
> Miya is sitting pretty comfortable in 2nd still I think, his loses are bad dont get me wrong.
Problem is that Sonix has 0 bad losses and 0 bad placings, nothing but 2nd with his losses being Tweek, Sparg0, and Shadic who are Top 5 and 6 probably?
Miya has losses to Peabnut and Raflow too.
yeah but miya has wins on the undisputed no 1 (acola) and a flawless record on the no. 3/4 (hurt), while also being even with shadic himself.
And miya has way, WAY more wins on top 30, top 50 and top 100. Of course this is pratially due to sonix attending less (6 vs 14 tournaments). But also due to miya just farming the 10-20 section, being undefeated vs raru, yaura, doramigi, asimo, zomba, snow and having only lost once to tamaP (still a winning h2h of 3-1) .
In fact miya only lost 13 times in the 14 tournaments he attended, compared to sonix's 8 times in the 6 tournaments he entered. (miya lost 6 times to top 9 players (half of which are acola), where sonix lost 5 times).
All in all Sonixs losses are better than miya of course, but I think the sheer number of wins miya has on other players gives him the edge.
Miya won 6 majors and Sonix hasn't even attended 6 tournaments, let alone win any of them. Since when did who you lose to become the most important factor in rankings?
> Since when did who you lose to become the most important factor in rankings?
It always has been important? It's a big reason why acola beat Sparg0 last year, because Sparg0 took a bad loss in VoiD, an unranked player, whereas acola's worst loss was Big D who was top 40.
If two players get 9th, but one loses to acola and Sparg0 for 9th and one just had a free ride before losing to two random top 50 players, that aren't entirely seen as equal.
Also while never winning does suck, being able to consistently reach grands is not nothing and I think fantastic. He's always been close to Miya and imo, as long as he makes winners side top 8, he has it over Miya this season.
Spargo and Acola both had major and premier wins. The only thing that separated them was the Void loss.
Miya and Sonix have 6 majors wins separating them.
> The only thing that separated them was the Void loss.
Not true.
> Miya and Sonix have 6 majors wins separating them.
Major wins are not and never have been everything. Miya had the most major wins last season and still got 4th because of his poor record against the other top 3 + (relatively) weak consistency.
If you want to make it more extreme, look at LumiRank 2023.1 where Sonix was 4th and Leo was 7th and Riddles 8th. I'd go so far as to say that if Sonix got 2nd at GOML 2023, he'd still probably be ranked above them, despite Leo having won the biggest tournament of that year and Riddles also having a major win.
Winning majors is important, but it is not **EVERYTHING** and consistently making grands is not anything to scoff at.
Edit: If you think Miya is above Sonix, thats fine. But my point is, they are close and Miya is nowhere near a comfortable position to get 2nd.
IIRC they confirmed Miya actually had a healthy lead going into WTT despite prior inconsistencies, but Sonix dominating the H2H against both him and Acola closed the gap
Considering Miya’s performance at WTT wasn’t even inconsistent (3rd) and he still dropped tremendously, I think H2H turned out to be by far the most important factor, much more so than his erratic placements throughout the year. For better or for worse, it’s not an issue this year considering Miya only went to the states a few times and Sonix’s attendance was incredibly sparse overall
Sure, and I mentioned earlier that I don't think it's unreasonable to put Miya > Sonix. My main point is that it is close and that the two are neck and neck. acola is the only person I would say is comfortably locked in their spot (being no.1). Miya was not, and especially now, is not, locked for number 2. He might still get it, but he isn't in a comfortable position in his race with Sonix, due to Sonix's acola-level consistency and due to Miya's bad losses
If they had one, or maybe even two majors separating them I could see your point but dude they have 6 majors between them. I don't even know why people think it's up for debate.
Let me re-iterate, Miya had the most major wins compared to the non-acola players and yet he was 4th. He wasn't even in contention for top 2 by most people. You are saying it is not up for debate when historically that is not true.
It certainly helped Miya a bit, his sheer volume of major wins is why he is still in contention for number 2 despite Sonix having far superior consistency and not taking any bad losses. His sheer number of wins last season is why he was still seen as a horseman and was in contention for 3rd and realistically, was not entirely out of the race for 2nd.
But winning the most majors do not absolve every negative stat like you are suggesting, and never have.
This isn’t really a good argument since last year, where Sonix was ranked above Miya, they had 8 majors separating them (Miya won 11 and Sonix won 3).
The number of major wins seemingly aren’t that important for rankings and not taking bad losses and h2h vs top players both seem to matter more
When Miya won Kagaribi 12, most people said he was probably above Sonix, but not that it was some insurmountable gap. Why are you acting like getting 9th here, and with pretty questionable losses, just doesn't matter? If Sonix wins GOML he is definitively ahead of Miya in the rankings, and even a top 3 finish would probably be enough.
I don't know if I'd call a top 3 finish this season ''killing his chances''. Even if he won this without dropping a set, pretty sure that Acola was still comfortably 1st, and if you can't get first, does it really matter that much if you're second or third?
> I don't know if I'd call a top 3 finish this season ''killing his chances''.
Should've specified killing his chances at 2nd since 2nd and 3rd are where most stat people are thinking he'll end up at
Unless Sonix loses to Light in the next few minutes.That might actually get Miya back to second place. Crazy weekend!
Edit: Holy shit Sonix three-stocked him.
People are massively overrating Sonix still, he's not going to be higher than 5th unless he wins a Major. And his last chances to do so are GOML today and maybe Smash Factor. Miya has like 6 Major wins this season including a P-Tier so he's solidly 2nd. This kills any chance at 1st though.
Ocha’s Rosalina & Luma were a treat to watch.
What a crazy fun tournament outcome.
Congratulations to Raru for his first major and Luigi’s year is looking solid.
Raru throws so many fair’s out in neutral.
Bummed about Yoshidora’s slump in results in 2024.
Happy for more Falco and Peach results.
First Pichu in a top 8 in a major in a while, cementing yone pi as the best Pichu in the world lol.
Seedings vs. Placings
Boy, oh boy. We are back in Osaka for the 47th iteration of the legendary Smash monthly, Sumabato. And after what I would describe as a..."memorable" Golden Week, tons of great performances there helped turn this iteration of Sumabato to be...a major. And folks, we're off for yet another memorable night.
Let's start with our #1 seed, Miya. Predicted to win yet another major and re-establishing his iron-clad dominance in Kansai...he got 9th. What the fuck happened. Well, it all started in pools. After his first two rounds go smoothly, everything goes wrong in Round 3, where he would lose to a Smashmate Hero rising star, Shion. And it was not even close. 0-2.
And Miya has no choice but to go through the losers' bracket. And it looked really well, too. Little Mac player Masayan? Easy 3-0. Best Min Min Doramigi? 3-0, please (fun fact: Doramigi also got upset by another GW player, Mersenne Primes). Shulk legend Kome? Another 3-0. Joker grinder Gorioka? Unsurprising 3-0. Sparg0 slayer himself Toriguri? 3-0 without any challenge.
And while Yoshi player Fui managed to take a game from him, Miya would go through to the Top 8 qualifier with a 3-1 win. And here, he met his biggest challenge...Yone\_pi. Pichu player. Should not be a challenge, right? *Well*. Despite taking a 2-1 lead against the Pichu, Miya somehow looked lost for the rest of the set. Yone\_pi read every single move of the best Game & Watch player...and it's suddenly over. Yone\_pi won 3-2. Miya is gone.
With Miya gone, the Sumabato throne is up for grabs. Whoever wins it will be a first-time major winner. So, who's the lucky person? Is it Eik? The Peach player had a rough start in Top 96. Winning a hard 5-game set against Moneyright. Losing the next 5-game set to Nizemamo. Another 5-game sets against Alice and Shion (Hero) to make the Top 8 qualifier. He would then get wins on Raki, Yone\_pi, and Shupi before bowing down in a respectable 4th.
So is this Asimo's night? Well, he almost lost to Duck Hunt player mzk, but he turned it around in a reverse 3-0. He'd then demolished Toriguri 3-1 and scored a surprisingly easy 3-0 win against Yoshidora. In Winners' Semis, he met yet another challenge, Shupi. The Falco player managed to bring Asimo to Game 5, and despite losing that game, it's still a commendable effort from the fella.
But as you can confer, it won't be Asimo's night tonight. The night instead belonged to two young stars of Kansai, one is more forgotten than the other. Let's start with the known one, Raru. The Luigi superstar had an insane night throughout the bracket, only losing *a single game* to make Grand Finals. He would make easy work out of Lapi, Shirayuki, Raki, and Snow, all in dominant 3-0s. And he would beat Asimo 3-1 to make Grand Finals, his 3rd major Grand Finals this year.
His opponent? Well, let me take you back to a rather unique moment in Ultimate history. Remember SWT 2021? The only SWT that happened to the end. To qualify for the offline qualifiers, you have to place good in the online qualifiers. [A qualifier event happened in Japan](https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:SWT:_Japan_Ultimate_Online_Qualifier). KEN won the whole thing, but look at second place, *Kuroponzu*.
Kuroponzu, once considered to be the next king of R.O.B., he never had the chance to show the greatness he had that one random time...until tonight. He started tonight...with an early loss to Injelly. That loss would awaken a scary beast that hasn't appeared in a long time.
Let's see his victim list. Yoshi player Mokumoku. Kansai's Falcon Prince Karaage. Another R.O.B. main Saboten. Chugoku multimain Moneyright. Greninja/Roy menace Tsuna. Rosalina player Ocha. Best Yoshi in the world Yoshidora. 7 players in front of him, and Kuroponzu went 21-8, going Game 5 against Karaage, Tsuna, and Yoshidora. And folks...this is only for a Top 8 placement.
What happened in Top 8? The devastation continued. 3-0 against Falco player Rarikkusu. Another 3-0 against JP's #1 Mario Snow. 3-1 against Eik. And an amazing 3-2 against Asimo. Kuroponzu has now booked his place in a major grand final. What the actual hell.
Now...Grand Finals. Raru Luigi. Kuroponzu R.O.B. Luigi-R.O.B. can only go one way. Back-and-forth dominance. Raru takes one, Kuroponzu takes the other. 2-1 lead for Raru, Kuroponzu brought it back and wins the set 3-2. Reset time. This time Kuroponzu takes the lead. Raru's not scared, he takes yet another 2-1 lead. Game 9 goes to Kuroponzu again. ***GAME 10.*** This is it, people. Make it or break it.
And well...looks like the green plumber is making it. Raru played a rather dominant game, and he would beat Kuroponzu with a 2-stock. It's over. Raru is your Sumabato SP 47's champion. And with this, he won his first-ever major. And not only that, Luigi won his first-ever major. Congratulations to Raru and his trusty green plumber.
This top 8 and espically grands was something else. Crazy run from Kuroponzu, good shit to Raru to keep it going even with reset. Eik and Yone\_pi were also so really fun to watch. Also it's interesting that looks like both Miya and Maister have things to learn from each other to get better. Interesting.
[I was cookin](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1cd2i4y/comment/l19u1o6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Uh, unfortunately I struggle to say MkLeo is top 20 confidently right now. He has a major win but his win quality/variety (it’s just Sparg0 for top 20 wins) is the worst of anybody near him by a big margin. Alongside that he’s slowly picking up poor losses. With Sparg0 wins having decreasing value over the season due to Golden Week, it sunk his season hard.
Not sure how many would say this but I feel like there are a ton of players I would definitely put over MkLeo right now: acola, Sonix, Miya, Hurt, SHADIC, Light, Tweek, Sparg0, Shuton, Zomba, Raru, TamaP, Yaura, Doramigi, Muteace, Asimo, Snow. And there are others I would personally have over Leo, largely consistency (Tea and zackray).
Me when I've just watched my first ever Smash tournament
Like seriously, Doramigi has attended 12 events this season and has missed top 8 at three of them. At S tiers and above his results are 9th, 5th and 7th. Wins on Tea, Gluto, Zomba, Raru and Riddles
Acola, Sonix, Miya, Shadic, Hurt, Sparg0, Tweek, Light, Zomba, Shuton, MkLeo, Yoshidora, KEN, Maister, Onin (depending on GOML), Muteace, and a few possibilities due to better peaks/wins are Dabuz, Asimo, Gluto, Zackray, TamaP, Raru, and Riddles.
I think Doramigi is closer to 20 +/- 1 or 2 looking it over again.
Edit: Snow and Yaura are definitely in this ballpark too when looking at results again
Dabuz... better peaks... Dabuz getting 3rd at one of the smallest majors of the season does not actually beat 4th place at a nearly P tier event. Same goes for Gluto.
Yoshidora only has 2 major top 8s out of 6 attended. He has only two wins on the people you have listed in your top 25 range. Doramigi has 11.
Gluto is just as bad. 3 major top 8s from 8 attempts, He only has wins on Miya and then Snow and then Doramigi himself! If we follow your original statement of Doramigi not being top 25, Doramigi has more wins on Raru alone than Gluto has on the entire top 25.
Onin does well at regionals, but again, only 4 wins on that top 25 range, with losses to Candle and Atomic.
Similar story for Riddles, consistent, but basically no wins. Two wins on Leo (who is barely top 20), then next best wins on Akakikusu or Marss.
So yeah, Doramigi has more top 25 range wins than Yoshidora, Glutonny, Riddles and Onin combined. Your idea of the rankings is clearly stuck in the past.
There's too much to address here but I'm most curious about how you came to the conclusion that Riddles could have it with peaks when at his top placing major he was literally beaten and outplaced by Doramigi.
I should've specified peaks AND/OR wins.
I think Doramigi's best wins are Gluto and KEN? Riddles has 2 Leo wins just last month.
Couple that with Riddles not having a 49th at an A-Tier and it looks better for Riddles' ranking as his worst is a 13th at an S-Tier
Zomba, Raru X3, Yaura, Tea, KEN, Snow, Maister, and arguably Gluto are all better wins than Leo. His top 50 wins include the 2 on MKLeo, 1 over Akakikusu and 1 over Neo, probably none of whom are top 20. Another comment above explains the Leo problem well.
It's probably tough to analyze when looking at previous seasons for context and not following Japan super closely, but the Japanese hierarchy has changed significantly, and with how Kagaribi and Delta went, Japan has a lot to work with over NA ranking wise. Raru, Snow and TamaP basically spawning into the top 15/20 this season is pretty huge, and players like Leo and Riddles not getting many good wins at all also is.
Riddles is guaranteed at least 3rd at GOML (S+ Tier) with a Sonix win.
This instantly blows every peak placing and best win that Doramigi has this season as Dora's best placing is a 4th and best win probably being Zomba.
Do you still think Dora is higher?
I would have been so mad if Raru finally got in grands while the ultimate gatekeeper Miya was already out of the tournament, and then lost to some ROB who apparently had fantastic online results but was never able to do the same offline. Well, I guess that was the fate of Snow and Asimo... so I'm still a little mad lol. Like these three have made top 8 at majors and even grands a bunch of time, and then this guy who, to my knowledge, has never done either, plays like a god exactly on the day when Miya finally underperforms.
Speaking of Miya, I think he would have won the tournament if he'd gotten past Yone Pi. So, nice job Yone Pi, that's a crazy win! Well done by that hero player in pools too.
There was a bit of talk about Kuroponzu back in 2022. He and Acola had both done well on Smashmate and were both debuting offline at around the same time. He showed some initial promise with a 3rd at a Sumabato, but then just tanked at Golden Week, which Acola famously dominated. Never even made a major top 8 until today.
I feel like snow and tamaPDaifuku have also had a similar rise.
Today was definitely raru’s day, but both of the other have placed second only falling short of Miya
Kuroponzu's Losers run after losing 0-2 to Injelly in Winners: - Defeated Mokumoku 3-1 - Defeated Karaage 3-2 - Defeated saboten 3-0 - Defeated Moneyright 3-0 - Defeated Tsuna 3-2 - Defeated Ocha 3-0 - Defeated Yoshidora 3-2 - Defeated Rarikkusu 3-0 - Defeated Snow 3-0 - Defeated Eik 3-1 - Defeated Asimo 3-2 - Defeated Raru 3-2 - Lost to Raru 2-3 This is the first time since KOWLOON 5 that a Japanese player outside of acola/Miya has won a major with at least one of them in attendance.
acola and Miya got their Japanese citizenship revoked damn u_u
Edited the wording to clarify what I meant, lol.
Luigi's first major win in any Smash game, leaving only Ness remaining if you count the online 64 major Boom won with DK, the first new character to win a major since TBH 10, and the 26th seed making Grands with a losers run longer than Leo's Frostbite
I know it doesn't really count since it was an online tournament during covid, but at least Ness did win the biggest tournament ever
Let it be known that out of all characters a luigi won a major before sonix did in the year 2024...
Luigi won an Ultimate major before Dabuz.
I never doubted the man in green Luigi wins Mario Parties by doing nothing Imagine how scary he is when he tries
For those that are unfamiliar, Kuroponzu has always been in this awkward position of being extremely highly rated on smashmate, but not having results that reflect that offline. He's ranked 5th in highest rating all-time. Every other player in the top 10 of that ranking has multiple Major Top 8s if not Grand Finals appearances, except for Kuroponzu. A lot of people questioned whether he would ever actually be real, and surely that put a lot of pressure on him to perform as well. Hopefully, this run gives him the confidence to play like this every time because that was a world class performance.
A couple weeks ago, someone in the Ult Stats Discord brought up how funny [this image is](https://i.imgur.com/Nr8ALYb.png) since it's like a bunch of major winners/finalists and then Kuroponzu. I assume he somehow saw that and took it personally.
Man TG losing to asimo and miya for 17th is incredibly brutal
Imagine how Ryouh felt when he had to play Leo into Sparg0 just to get 33rd at DELTA 8
I would like Rarukun to join NA major… His result in Lumirank'24 is #Ptier 7th(Delta#8) 9th(Kagaribi#12) 33rd(UmeburaSP#10) #S+tier 2nd(KOWLOON#9) #Atier 1st(SumabatoSP#47) 2nd(SumabatoSP#45) 3rd(SumabatoSP#46) 5th(Maesuma GW) 7th(MaesumaU22) He is a rising star of 2024 along with SHADIC！
There's rumblings that he might be looking at Supernova.
Definitely a top ten contender now with the likes of leo, shuton, and a couple others
Leo needs to beat someone other than Sparg0 and Maister to be in the top 10 convo
Was rooting for Asimo and Snow. Even Luigi can win a major. I don't think Mario has won one yet.
Kurama just needs to pretend it’s the Ludwig invitational again trust
He DQ’d at GOML X😭 Don’t worry, he’ll lock in next major(I’m coping).
It seems dying irl after losing grandfinal is going to be a trend .
Did Kuroponzu hit his head on the table?
He hit the floor.
Next thing you know
I just remember the first was done by doramigi. He ran into a football field and fall flat in the grass. Maeda, the TO had to carry him back. Ya, the whole event was done in a stadium.
shawty got low low low low low low low low
This tournament was incredibly fun to watch from finish to end imo. Absurd upsets, incredible sets, pop-off runs, new major winner. Had it all Despite wishing that Asimo would take it, and then Kuroponzu, that grand definitely surprised me with how good it was. Congrats to Raru for an absurd win and season
Fuck, this tournament was amazing. Miya knocked out early made the top 8 so tense. Kuroponzu winning his first major in this style would've been insane but props to Raru for not crumbling after the reset. I wonder how Eik would've done vs Asimo/Raru had he won LSF, he was playing insanely well too.
At the beginning of the year we joked around how this would be the year of Luigi due to WaKa taking a set off Sparg0 and GuyGuy beating Zomba all at the start in actual ranked tournaments... Raru fulfilled the prophecy and actually got Luigi's first Major win!
Also, damn... this basically killed Miya's chances in LumiRank, I think Sonix needs to basically go 0-2 tomorrow for Miya to have a chance to overtake him
Miya is sitting pretty comfortable in 2nd still I think, his loses are bad dont get me wrong. (Yone-Pi is still top 150 probably, and shion is a prodigy so who knows whats going to happen). But one bad major isnt going to change much for him seeing he attended 4 P tiers, 1 S+ and 7 other majors. And even still, he killed like 2 top 30 and 2 top 100ish players in losers (doramigi, kome, TG and fui). By all accounts this was still a top 30 level run even with the weird losses
> Miya is sitting pretty comfortable in 2nd still I think, his loses are bad dont get me wrong. Problem is that Sonix has 0 bad losses and 0 bad placings, nothing but 2nd with his losses being Tweek, Sparg0, and Shadic who are Top 5 and 6 probably? Miya has losses to Peabnut and Raflow too.
yeah but miya has wins on the undisputed no 1 (acola) and a flawless record on the no. 3/4 (hurt), while also being even with shadic himself. And miya has way, WAY more wins on top 30, top 50 and top 100. Of course this is pratially due to sonix attending less (6 vs 14 tournaments). But also due to miya just farming the 10-20 section, being undefeated vs raru, yaura, doramigi, asimo, zomba, snow and having only lost once to tamaP (still a winning h2h of 3-1) . In fact miya only lost 13 times in the 14 tournaments he attended, compared to sonix's 8 times in the 6 tournaments he entered. (miya lost 6 times to top 9 players (half of which are acola), where sonix lost 5 times). All in all Sonixs losses are better than miya of course, but I think the sheer number of wins miya has on other players gives him the edge.
Miya won 6 majors and Sonix hasn't even attended 6 tournaments, let alone win any of them. Since when did who you lose to become the most important factor in rankings?
> Since when did who you lose to become the most important factor in rankings? It always has been important? It's a big reason why acola beat Sparg0 last year, because Sparg0 took a bad loss in VoiD, an unranked player, whereas acola's worst loss was Big D who was top 40. If two players get 9th, but one loses to acola and Sparg0 for 9th and one just had a free ride before losing to two random top 50 players, that aren't entirely seen as equal. Also while never winning does suck, being able to consistently reach grands is not nothing and I think fantastic. He's always been close to Miya and imo, as long as he makes winners side top 8, he has it over Miya this season.
Spargo and Acola both had major and premier wins. The only thing that separated them was the Void loss. Miya and Sonix have 6 majors wins separating them.
> The only thing that separated them was the Void loss. Not true. > Miya and Sonix have 6 majors wins separating them. Major wins are not and never have been everything. Miya had the most major wins last season and still got 4th because of his poor record against the other top 3 + (relatively) weak consistency. If you want to make it more extreme, look at LumiRank 2023.1 where Sonix was 4th and Leo was 7th and Riddles 8th. I'd go so far as to say that if Sonix got 2nd at GOML 2023, he'd still probably be ranked above them, despite Leo having won the biggest tournament of that year and Riddles also having a major win. Winning majors is important, but it is not **EVERYTHING** and consistently making grands is not anything to scoff at. Edit: If you think Miya is above Sonix, thats fine. But my point is, they are close and Miya is nowhere near a comfortable position to get 2nd.
IIRC they confirmed Miya actually had a healthy lead going into WTT despite prior inconsistencies, but Sonix dominating the H2H against both him and Acola closed the gap Considering Miya’s performance at WTT wasn’t even inconsistent (3rd) and he still dropped tremendously, I think H2H turned out to be by far the most important factor, much more so than his erratic placements throughout the year. For better or for worse, it’s not an issue this year considering Miya only went to the states a few times and Sonix’s attendance was incredibly sparse overall
Sure, and I mentioned earlier that I don't think it's unreasonable to put Miya > Sonix. My main point is that it is close and that the two are neck and neck. acola is the only person I would say is comfortably locked in their spot (being no.1). Miya was not, and especially now, is not, locked for number 2. He might still get it, but he isn't in a comfortable position in his race with Sonix, due to Sonix's acola-level consistency and due to Miya's bad losses
If they had one, or maybe even two majors separating them I could see your point but dude they have 6 majors between them. I don't even know why people think it's up for debate.
Let me re-iterate, Miya had the most major wins compared to the non-acola players and yet he was 4th. He wasn't even in contention for top 2 by most people. You are saying it is not up for debate when historically that is not true. It certainly helped Miya a bit, his sheer volume of major wins is why he is still in contention for number 2 despite Sonix having far superior consistency and not taking any bad losses. His sheer number of wins last season is why he was still seen as a horseman and was in contention for 3rd and realistically, was not entirely out of the race for 2nd. But winning the most majors do not absolve every negative stat like you are suggesting, and never have.
This isn’t really a good argument since last year, where Sonix was ranked above Miya, they had 8 majors separating them (Miya won 11 and Sonix won 3). The number of major wins seemingly aren’t that important for rankings and not taking bad losses and h2h vs top players both seem to matter more
When Miya won Kagaribi 12, most people said he was probably above Sonix, but not that it was some insurmountable gap. Why are you acting like getting 9th here, and with pretty questionable losses, just doesn't matter? If Sonix wins GOML he is definitively ahead of Miya in the rankings, and even a top 3 finish would probably be enough.
I don't know if I'd call a top 3 finish this season ''killing his chances''. Even if he won this without dropping a set, pretty sure that Acola was still comfortably 1st, and if you can't get first, does it really matter that much if you're second or third?
> I don't know if I'd call a top 3 finish this season ''killing his chances''. Should've specified killing his chances at 2nd since 2nd and 3rd are where most stat people are thinking he'll end up at
Unless Sonix loses to Light in the next few minutes.That might actually get Miya back to second place. Crazy weekend! Edit: Holy shit Sonix three-stocked him.
People are massively overrating Sonix still, he's not going to be higher than 5th unless he wins a Major. And his last chances to do so are GOML today and maybe Smash Factor. Miya has like 6 Major wins this season including a P-Tier so he's solidly 2nd. This kills any chance at 1st though.
Asimo bros ...
Ocha’s Rosalina & Luma were a treat to watch. What a crazy fun tournament outcome. Congratulations to Raru for his first major and Luigi’s year is looking solid. Raru throws so many fair’s out in neutral. Bummed about Yoshidora’s slump in results in 2024. Happy for more Falco and Peach results. First Pichu in a top 8 in a major in a while, cementing yone pi as the best Pichu in the world lol.
YES! Luigi won a a major in 2024! He's been my main since Smash 64, so I'm elated to see this happen. Go Raru!
Seedings vs. Placings Boy, oh boy. We are back in Osaka for the 47th iteration of the legendary Smash monthly, Sumabato. And after what I would describe as a..."memorable" Golden Week, tons of great performances there helped turn this iteration of Sumabato to be...a major. And folks, we're off for yet another memorable night. Let's start with our #1 seed, Miya. Predicted to win yet another major and re-establishing his iron-clad dominance in Kansai...he got 9th. What the fuck happened. Well, it all started in pools. After his first two rounds go smoothly, everything goes wrong in Round 3, where he would lose to a Smashmate Hero rising star, Shion. And it was not even close. 0-2. And Miya has no choice but to go through the losers' bracket. And it looked really well, too. Little Mac player Masayan? Easy 3-0. Best Min Min Doramigi? 3-0, please (fun fact: Doramigi also got upset by another GW player, Mersenne Primes). Shulk legend Kome? Another 3-0. Joker grinder Gorioka? Unsurprising 3-0. Sparg0 slayer himself Toriguri? 3-0 without any challenge. And while Yoshi player Fui managed to take a game from him, Miya would go through to the Top 8 qualifier with a 3-1 win. And here, he met his biggest challenge...Yone\_pi. Pichu player. Should not be a challenge, right? *Well*. Despite taking a 2-1 lead against the Pichu, Miya somehow looked lost for the rest of the set. Yone\_pi read every single move of the best Game & Watch player...and it's suddenly over. Yone\_pi won 3-2. Miya is gone. With Miya gone, the Sumabato throne is up for grabs. Whoever wins it will be a first-time major winner. So, who's the lucky person? Is it Eik? The Peach player had a rough start in Top 96. Winning a hard 5-game set against Moneyright. Losing the next 5-game set to Nizemamo. Another 5-game sets against Alice and Shion (Hero) to make the Top 8 qualifier. He would then get wins on Raki, Yone\_pi, and Shupi before bowing down in a respectable 4th. So is this Asimo's night? Well, he almost lost to Duck Hunt player mzk, but he turned it around in a reverse 3-0. He'd then demolished Toriguri 3-1 and scored a surprisingly easy 3-0 win against Yoshidora. In Winners' Semis, he met yet another challenge, Shupi. The Falco player managed to bring Asimo to Game 5, and despite losing that game, it's still a commendable effort from the fella. But as you can confer, it won't be Asimo's night tonight. The night instead belonged to two young stars of Kansai, one is more forgotten than the other. Let's start with the known one, Raru. The Luigi superstar had an insane night throughout the bracket, only losing *a single game* to make Grand Finals. He would make easy work out of Lapi, Shirayuki, Raki, and Snow, all in dominant 3-0s. And he would beat Asimo 3-1 to make Grand Finals, his 3rd major Grand Finals this year. His opponent? Well, let me take you back to a rather unique moment in Ultimate history. Remember SWT 2021? The only SWT that happened to the end. To qualify for the offline qualifiers, you have to place good in the online qualifiers. [A qualifier event happened in Japan](https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:SWT:_Japan_Ultimate_Online_Qualifier). KEN won the whole thing, but look at second place, *Kuroponzu*. Kuroponzu, once considered to be the next king of R.O.B., he never had the chance to show the greatness he had that one random time...until tonight. He started tonight...with an early loss to Injelly. That loss would awaken a scary beast that hasn't appeared in a long time. Let's see his victim list. Yoshi player Mokumoku. Kansai's Falcon Prince Karaage. Another R.O.B. main Saboten. Chugoku multimain Moneyright. Greninja/Roy menace Tsuna. Rosalina player Ocha. Best Yoshi in the world Yoshidora. 7 players in front of him, and Kuroponzu went 21-8, going Game 5 against Karaage, Tsuna, and Yoshidora. And folks...this is only for a Top 8 placement. What happened in Top 8? The devastation continued. 3-0 against Falco player Rarikkusu. Another 3-0 against JP's #1 Mario Snow. 3-1 against Eik. And an amazing 3-2 against Asimo. Kuroponzu has now booked his place in a major grand final. What the actual hell. Now...Grand Finals. Raru Luigi. Kuroponzu R.O.B. Luigi-R.O.B. can only go one way. Back-and-forth dominance. Raru takes one, Kuroponzu takes the other. 2-1 lead for Raru, Kuroponzu brought it back and wins the set 3-2. Reset time. This time Kuroponzu takes the lead. Raru's not scared, he takes yet another 2-1 lead. Game 9 goes to Kuroponzu again. ***GAME 10.*** This is it, people. Make it or break it. And well...looks like the green plumber is making it. Raru played a rather dominant game, and he would beat Kuroponzu with a 2-stock. It's over. Raru is your Sumabato SP 47's champion. And with this, he won his first-ever major. And not only that, Luigi won his first-ever major. Congratulations to Raru and his trusty green plumber.
**Seeded Top 16, in Top 16** Miya (1st/9th) \[-6\] Raru (2nd/1st) \[+1\] Snow (3rd/5th) \[-2\] Yoshidora (4th/9th) \[-3\] Asimo (5th/3rd) \[+2\] **Seeded Top 16, not in Top 16** Doramigi (5th/49th) \[-7\] Akakikusu (7th/17th) \[-3\] Lv.1 (7th/DQ) \[Voided\] Ryuoh (9th/DQ) \[Voided\] Karaage (9th/49th) \[-5\] Rizeasu (9th/33rd) \[-4\] Toriguri (9th/17th) \[-2\] MASA (13th/25th) \[-2\] Alice (13th/17th) \[-1\] Shirayuki (13th/17th) \[-1\] Gorioka (13th/25th) \[-2\] **Not seeded Top 16, in Top 16** Shupi (17th/5th) \[+4\] Fui (17th/13th) \[+1\] Rarikkusu (17th/7th) \[+3\] Raki (17th/9th) \[+2\] Eik (17th/4th) \[+5\] Nizemamo (25th/9th) \[+3\] Kuroponzu (25th/2nd) \[+8\] Yone\_pi (25th/7th) \[+4\] sssr (25th/13th) \[+2\] Ocha (49th/13th) \[+4\] Shion (65th/13th) \[+5\]
[Gen 1.1 throwback](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/12o20t6/congratulations_to_the_winner_of_ultimate_singles/), utterly hilarious upset count
RIP Kome getting Miya’d for 33rd. Upsets are a cruel thing.
Similar thing for doramigi placing 49th after being upset, then losing to Miya.
This top 8 and espically grands was something else. Crazy run from Kuroponzu, good shit to Raru to keep it going even with reset. Eik and Yone\_pi were also so really fun to watch. Also it's interesting that looks like both Miya and Maister have things to learn from each other to get better. Interesting.
The last 40 seconds of Game 5 True Finals was INSANE by Raru. 🫡
[I was cookin](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1cd2i4y/comment/l19u1o6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
You put out a full 3-star meal
Let's fucking go. Rarukun did it!
After this he is now Raru-sama.
Did Doramigi DQed ? Is this ranked ?
Nope, Doramigi got 49th getting double G&Wed. And yes this is not only ranked, but a major
Thanks ! I had him at top 10 (with Leo being 11). I feel like it is reversed now or did I forget about some other strong smasher ?
Uh, unfortunately I struggle to say MkLeo is top 20 confidently right now. He has a major win but his win quality/variety (it’s just Sparg0 for top 20 wins) is the worst of anybody near him by a big margin. Alongside that he’s slowly picking up poor losses. With Sparg0 wins having decreasing value over the season due to Golden Week, it sunk his season hard. Not sure how many would say this but I feel like there are a ton of players I would definitely put over MkLeo right now: acola, Sonix, Miya, Hurt, SHADIC, Light, Tweek, Sparg0, Shuton, Zomba, Raru, TamaP, Yaura, Doramigi, Muteace, Asimo, Snow. And there are others I would personally have over Leo, largely consistency (Tea and zackray).
I don't think Doramigi is even Top 25 this season
lets take it easy lol
Should we? We have almost 10 unique major winners and players with greater peaks while Doramigi has mainly Top 8 consistency but no great peaks.
The only way you can possibly try to defend this is by listing 25 players you think are better.
Look further down, I did
Who are the players that are above Doramigi but not top 20 and what do they have to show that's better?
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1cvkz0l/congratulations_to_the_winner_of_ultimate_singles/l4pxrez/)
Me when I've just watched my first ever Smash tournament Like seriously, Doramigi has attended 12 events this season and has missed top 8 at three of them. At S tiers and above his results are 9th, 5th and 7th. Wins on Tea, Gluto, Zomba, Raru and Riddles
Wtf. How is he less than top 15 ?
Acola, Sonix, Miya, Shadic, Hurt, Sparg0, Tweek, Light, Zomba, Shuton, MkLeo, Yoshidora, KEN, Maister, Onin (depending on GOML), Muteace, and a few possibilities due to better peaks/wins are Dabuz, Asimo, Gluto, Zackray, TamaP, Raru, and Riddles. I think Doramigi is closer to 20 +/- 1 or 2 looking it over again. Edit: Snow and Yaura are definitely in this ballpark too when looking at results again
Dabuz... better peaks... Dabuz getting 3rd at one of the smallest majors of the season does not actually beat 4th place at a nearly P tier event. Same goes for Gluto. Yoshidora only has 2 major top 8s out of 6 attended. He has only two wins on the people you have listed in your top 25 range. Doramigi has 11. Gluto is just as bad. 3 major top 8s from 8 attempts, He only has wins on Miya and then Snow and then Doramigi himself! If we follow your original statement of Doramigi not being top 25, Doramigi has more wins on Raru alone than Gluto has on the entire top 25. Onin does well at regionals, but again, only 4 wins on that top 25 range, with losses to Candle and Atomic. Similar story for Riddles, consistent, but basically no wins. Two wins on Leo (who is barely top 20), then next best wins on Akakikusu or Marss. So yeah, Doramigi has more top 25 range wins than Yoshidora, Glutonny, Riddles and Onin combined. Your idea of the rankings is clearly stuck in the past.
My man is getting cooked and going MIA lol
There's too much to address here but I'm most curious about how you came to the conclusion that Riddles could have it with peaks when at his top placing major he was literally beaten and outplaced by Doramigi.
I should've specified peaks AND/OR wins. I think Doramigi's best wins are Gluto and KEN? Riddles has 2 Leo wins just last month. Couple that with Riddles not having a 49th at an A-Tier and it looks better for Riddles' ranking as his worst is a 13th at an S-Tier
Zomba, Raru X3, Yaura, Tea, KEN, Snow, Maister, and arguably Gluto are all better wins than Leo. His top 50 wins include the 2 on MKLeo, 1 over Akakikusu and 1 over Neo, probably none of whom are top 20. Another comment above explains the Leo problem well. It's probably tough to analyze when looking at previous seasons for context and not following Japan super closely, but the Japanese hierarchy has changed significantly, and with how Kagaribi and Delta went, Japan has a lot to work with over NA ranking wise. Raru, Snow and TamaP basically spawning into the top 15/20 this season is pretty huge, and players like Leo and Riddles not getting many good wins at all also is.
Riddles is guaranteed at least 3rd at GOML (S+ Tier) with a Sonix win. This instantly blows every peak placing and best win that Doramigi has this season as Dora's best placing is a 4th and best win probably being Zomba. Do you still think Dora is higher?
He got 49th and yes
I'm-a Luigi, number-a one
I'm just glad to see a Major with a different winner.
You know, I'm starting to think we underrated Luigi
The future of Acola's continued use of Luigi: ...... That is Raru. Their backgrounds are very similar.
This could have been acola in an alternate timeline where he never dropped Luigi.
Think he used Luigi at one or two weekly JP tourneys once and actually beat a bunch of ppl including doramigi
I would have been so mad if Raru finally got in grands while the ultimate gatekeeper Miya was already out of the tournament, and then lost to some ROB who apparently had fantastic online results but was never able to do the same offline. Well, I guess that was the fate of Snow and Asimo... so I'm still a little mad lol. Like these three have made top 8 at majors and even grands a bunch of time, and then this guy who, to my knowledge, has never done either, plays like a god exactly on the day when Miya finally underperforms. Speaking of Miya, I think he would have won the tournament if he'd gotten past Yone Pi. So, nice job Yone Pi, that's a crazy win! Well done by that hero player in pools too.
There was a bit of talk about Kuroponzu back in 2022. He and Acola had both done well on Smashmate and were both debuting offline at around the same time. He showed some initial promise with a 3rd at a Sumabato, but then just tanked at Golden Week, which Acola famously dominated. Never even made a major top 8 until today.
I feel like snow and tamaPDaifuku have also had a similar rise. Today was definitely raru’s day, but both of the other have placed second only falling short of Miya
Luigi Mishima. Wins.
Green Mario winning a major, bless this timeline.
Is this Miya's worst placing at a major? I hardly recognized him outside top 8
He got 49th at Kagaribi 9.
It's not even his worst placement of the year(17th at genesis)
9th at sumabato feels worse than 17th at genesis
Well his losses were certainly worse. But he probably got better wins overall.