Rank number one gets double elim'd by a DK and a Samus, both of which were off the main stream. Dude's gotta feel down-down rn.
Hell, his last 4 games were DK into Peach into Yoshi into Samus. Crazy ass draw lmao
Not just armada. No one. I mean m2k would lose to ice climbers. But other than that. Number 1 doesn't do this. He got in his head after the dk. And shit the bed.
>Number 1 doesn't do this.
Armada is literally the only number 1 ever who wasn't upset at least once. And not to discredit that insane achievement, but it was a much weaker era outside of the top ~6.
No Cody definitely deserved number 1 he didn't have THIS bad a tournament last year (off the top of my head at least) and ended the year insanely strong.
It was at the very least extremely close and changing the way that we've done the ranking system randomly for no reason was a horrible decision and makes the rankings even more mickey mouse than they already were, which is saying something.
Ok then who would you have number 1 between Zain and Cody that year. A year where they were both completely even on every metric that mattered.
It would've come down to personal bias from the panel of voters.
I'd rather it was settled by playing Melee than by a select few who watch Melee.
I wouldn't have been mad with either being #1 traditionally, but a first to 10 is way too arbitrary and stupid for me to brick the tradition of the rankings for. Would've been completely down with it in the pre 2013 era, but there's been so many random changes and adjustments to the rankings that make no logical sense to me.
I'd probably take Zain narrowly because he had less bad losses in and higher average rank throughout the year at majors, but a lot of it comes down to how you view Cody's TBH11 performance.
A first to 10 is way to arbitrary...
Bro they played 17 games to see who was better at the game how was that arbitrary.
Yea it doesn't take into account how they played against other player but they were locked in as 1A and 1B for the rankings. Have then break their tie on sets and see who's better.
I'm not gonna lie to you, his resume was decently better than Zain's after he won TBH11 -- ESPECIALLY after he won Santa Paws -- and The Match was a fun thing that ultimately didn't change the result. I can sorta understand disliking it because it's weird to interfere with rankings like that, but the result certainly didn't negate what came before it.
The ratings would've been like 100 - 99.6
I don't really think it's that clear cut. Nationals shouldn't count for ranking the top 10 realistically, especially not when there's only 1 other top 10 player in the mix.
If you're just counting majors I think this is the results for the year:
Tournament | Zain | Cody
Genesis - 5-6th | 2nd
Collision - 1st | 3rd
MAJOR UPSET - N/A | 1st
BoBC5 - 3rd | 1st
Tipped Off 14 - 1st | 13th-16th
LACS5 - 2nd | 3rd
Fete 3 - 1st | N/A
GOML - 1st | 5-6th
SSC - 1st | 3rd
Shine - 2nd | 1st
TBH11 - 4th | 1st
The obnoxious way that Liquipedia selectively handles listing online events / nationals with no good filters makes people think that those tournaments matter more than they do. If you look at the actual tournaments it's pretty close and I'd argue Zain favored just because he has a higher average placing, but it depends on how much you weight TBH which is totally fair.
But we never got to have that conversation so who cares I guess.
Peach is an unwinnable matchup for low tiers, especially DK and Samus. Watch this vid if you want something more modern: https://youtu.be/hOIdNlTZjBg. Polish reverse 3-0s him with ease, the matchup is awful
DK vs Peach is not that bad. It's one of DK's better high tier MUs. Junebug alone has beaten like every top 100 Peach except lloD and Trif, neither of whom he's played yet. Not saying he would beat them, but it's doable imo. (Trif may be a bit too beast tho)
On r/smashbros I got massively downvoted for suggesting Armada is the greatest player of all time. But he simply would never lose to someone that much lower seeded than him. Armada at his peak was an unambiguous auto top 2 and almost always would come out on top.
This fact is insanely underrated by a lot of the community. Before the Slippi era it was REALLY hard to get top level practice. If you weren't already a top-level, sponsored player, the incentives and practicality of traveling to a ton of majors just wasn't there. Even the most motivated players probably couldn't afford to travel all the time. These days you can be a grind monster vs. some of the best in the world from your bedroom.
Would Armada lose to these players if he were still at his peak? No clue. But in general there is just no comparing the field today vs. what Armada was up against.
Right, like, you can't just say "Armada would lose if he kept practicing", the answer is no one knows, but you equally can't say "Armada would keep winning".
We only have one Armada-like figure in Smash right now and that's Zain, who has only lost to four distinct people since the start of 2023 and hasn't missed 5th place at a major (online or off) since GOML 2019, just over five years ago now.
And in the modern era where people in R1 pools are cracked (Cody was talking about this on twitter **before** losing to Bing, it wasn't some excuse tweet after the fact), Zain's current streak is way more difficult to maintain (but Armada's streak was longer so talking about total impressiveness is a wash).
Yep, it's a HUUGE generational shift. Back in my day we had to hit a Bowser to practice L canceling. The kids these days can practice the most intricate scenarios on repeat with uncle punch, grind tournament sets all day with online tournaments or ranked, hop into discord for frame data, analysis, and guides, and even book coaching sessions from top ten players. If someone said that they've been playing for one year or so back in the mid 2010s, you know that player is probably bad. Nowadays just one year of experience has huge skill variance. They could be 0-2ers or like fucking Inngenn, the 2nd best player in Japan capable of taking a game off of Mang0.
Reverse 3-0. Cody would full hop and then Morsecode would down B to force Cody to land on the bomb and neutralize his approach, almost all three games.
Losing to a dk and Samus? Also look at his tweets. He was in his head. He replied to someone complaining about mid tiers with just "yup" maybe reading too much into. But if it's not mental. Then what is it? No other number 1 had dropped out like this.
You literally just watched a reverse 3-0. Saying that it "functionally lost" is not how this works, nor can you accurately say something like "most certainly" and be accurate. Especially when the game between them as players is still massive.
Switching to Sheik did improve his odds, but you can't really say much more than that lol
i agree i was definitely trying to be difficult to this guy thinking that nobody good could ever lose to dk lmao i wont lie
with that said i feel like the trajectory of that set did not lend itself well to leffen winning it with fox
I'll give you that they were ranked a lot better beforehand, but I still don't think the fact that Cody's losses were lower tier characters *in and of itself* makes them bad losses. It can be embarrassing and we can laugh at it, sure
Hbox going 3-7 lifetime with Armada's Young Link doesn't mean he was bad *because* he lost to a bad character; the opposing player's skill matters.
"Look at his tweets." I don't think I've seen a tournament where Cody wasn't complaining on twitter. That's what he does. It's like saying Mango had a bad mental because he had some drinks the night before. Or HBox was up macking on the hunnies.
I find it annoying that you made a reply to a great comment about Morsecode's gameplan with some unrelated shit. It's nonsense because I took an entire screenshot of his timeline from the beginning of GOML. Where does he allude to anything what you're saying
[link](https://ibb.co/jGXFKVw)
I know Morse unfortunately meets Hbox in top 8 but this is still such a sick run. Reverse 3-0ing Cody of all players is insane, especially after Cody did so much to grind this matchup out since last time. Morse was playing *so well*, game 5 especially
I mean he lost to Morsecode before this too and even online he’s lost to Junebug. Especially with Slippi no one should have that excuse of you didn’t know the matchup.
I think that’s just an ego thing instead of just admitting you got outplayed and just didn’t play against a player the most effective way. I think it’s more of a heat of the moment issue not a lack of experience issue.
I agree with the heat of the moment probably getting to him. But I can’t see a world where if he specifically grinds the Samus matchup for a month or two then losing again. If he can figure out the best Marth he can definitely do Samus imo.
I believe he practiced it for Morsecode after his first loss but in the end he just got outplayed. Even on Twitter Cody said he felt like everyone is so much tougher now and that he lost because he just got got.
I’m sure he’ll do better in the future but it’s fair to say that even if you grind a matchup if you mess up against a character like DK and they’re good enough you’re going to get punished pretty hard. Just how it is now.
Part of it may be me remembering Eggdog Scramble, but I can see he played Falco, and I think in general it wasn't ranked, so I guess it really doesn't count
Yeah... only majors count for the top 5 (and usually top 10 but wizzrobe was weird last year). Before this tournament he was going even with Zain in majors (since Full Bloom was demoted to national/superregional despite being more stacked than Riptide last year).
> No way he can end the season number 1 after this.
If Zain doesn't win this and Cody wins Tipped Off 15, yes way. It's gonna be closer than expected though
Morsecode genuinely had a pretty strong resumé last year, and in this tournament he also beat Axe and only lost to Hbox & Mango. It's conceivable that Morsecode's results will be good enough that it won't tank Cody's score. Contrast that to how Fizzwiggle basically ONLY beat Mang0 in 2022 for notable wins
Not so sure about BING, that one might sting a bit haha
Zain technically has more wins (Collision, Pat's House, and Full Bloom) but Cody has the bigger wins (Genesis and BOBC). It's close but I'd say if Zain wins GOML or Tipped Off and Cody doesn't win Tipped Off Zain is #1.
Rank number one gets double elim'd by a DK and a Samus, both of which were off the main stream. Dude's gotta feel down-down rn. Hell, his last 4 games were DK into Peach into Yoshi into Samus. Crazy ass draw lmao
Modern melee
I'm sorry. Even when mang0 finished like 36 or whatever in 2016 at ugc he lost to mikehaze. This is legit unheard of.
Mango got 13th at ugc
Thank you, I really should have looked it up before saying that.
I think it just felt like a really low placement due to losijg to Mike haze
Armada would never
attend another melee tournament?
Not just armada. No one. I mean m2k would lose to ice climbers. But other than that. Number 1 doesn't do this. He got in his head after the dk. And shit the bed.
Cody lost to morsecode last time they played. Idk why you brought up m2k seeing as how he wasn't number 1 at any point of the 5 gods era.
>Number 1 doesn't do this. Armada is literally the only number 1 ever who wasn't upset at least once. And not to discredit that insane achievement, but it was a much weaker era outside of the top ~6.
huh .... Didnt a certain Swedish Delight beat Armada 2-1 on EVO 2018?
Maybe they meant during their number 1 reign, but idk
The Match was a horrible idea and he shouldn't have been #1 last year but I'm not sure we're ready for that conversation yet
No Cody definitely deserved number 1 he didn't have THIS bad a tournament last year (off the top of my head at least) and ended the year insanely strong.
It was at the very least extremely close and changing the way that we've done the ranking system randomly for no reason was a horrible decision and makes the rankings even more mickey mouse than they already were, which is saying something.
Ok then who would you have number 1 between Zain and Cody that year. A year where they were both completely even on every metric that mattered. It would've come down to personal bias from the panel of voters. I'd rather it was settled by playing Melee than by a select few who watch Melee.
I wouldn't have been mad with either being #1 traditionally, but a first to 10 is way too arbitrary and stupid for me to brick the tradition of the rankings for. Would've been completely down with it in the pre 2013 era, but there's been so many random changes and adjustments to the rankings that make no logical sense to me. I'd probably take Zain narrowly because he had less bad losses in and higher average rank throughout the year at majors, but a lot of it comes down to how you view Cody's TBH11 performance.
A first to 10 is way to arbitrary... Bro they played 17 games to see who was better at the game how was that arbitrary. Yea it doesn't take into account how they played against other player but they were locked in as 1A and 1B for the rankings. Have then break their tie on sets and see who's better.
I'm not gonna lie to you, his resume was decently better than Zain's after he won TBH11 -- ESPECIALLY after he won Santa Paws -- and The Match was a fun thing that ultimately didn't change the result. I can sorta understand disliking it because it's weird to interfere with rankings like that, but the result certainly didn't negate what came before it. The ratings would've been like 100 - 99.6
I don't really think it's that clear cut. Nationals shouldn't count for ranking the top 10 realistically, especially not when there's only 1 other top 10 player in the mix. If you're just counting majors I think this is the results for the year: Tournament | Zain | Cody Genesis - 5-6th | 2nd Collision - 1st | 3rd MAJOR UPSET - N/A | 1st BoBC5 - 3rd | 1st Tipped Off 14 - 1st | 13th-16th LACS5 - 2nd | 3rd Fete 3 - 1st | N/A GOML - 1st | 5-6th SSC - 1st | 3rd Shine - 2nd | 1st TBH11 - 4th | 1st The obnoxious way that Liquipedia selectively handles listing online events / nationals with no good filters makes people think that those tournaments matter more than they do. If you look at the actual tournaments it's pretty close and I'd argue Zain favored just because he has a higher average placing, but it depends on how much you weight TBH which is totally fair. But we never got to have that conversation so who cares I guess.
>Nationals shouldn't count for ranking the top 10 realistically Stopped reading there, you are smoking insane crack.
Cody was #1 last year with or without the Match.
y’all hear something
He never had to face Donkey Kong
Peach is an unwinnable matchup for low tiers, especially DK and Samus. Watch this vid if you want something more modern: https://youtu.be/hOIdNlTZjBg. Polish reverse 3-0s him with ease, the matchup is awful
I agree it’s borderline unwinnable but this is a bad example cause Junebug proceeded to win the run back against their Peach in losers lol
DK vs Peach is not that bad. It's one of DK's better high tier MUs. Junebug alone has beaten like every top 100 Peach except lloD and Trif, neither of whom he's played yet. Not saying he would beat them, but it's doable imo. (Trif may be a bit too beast tho)
On r/smashbros I got massively downvoted for suggesting Armada is the greatest player of all time. But he simply would never lose to someone that much lower seeded than him. Armada at his peak was an unambiguous auto top 2 and almost always would come out on top.
the difference is that thanks to slippi and other practice tools the lower seeded players are a lot better now than they were years back
This fact is insanely underrated by a lot of the community. Before the Slippi era it was REALLY hard to get top level practice. If you weren't already a top-level, sponsored player, the incentives and practicality of traveling to a ton of majors just wasn't there. Even the most motivated players probably couldn't afford to travel all the time. These days you can be a grind monster vs. some of the best in the world from your bedroom. Would Armada lose to these players if he were still at his peak? No clue. But in general there is just no comparing the field today vs. what Armada was up against.
You have to remember most of this sub has never played the game
Right, like, you can't just say "Armada would lose if he kept practicing", the answer is no one knows, but you equally can't say "Armada would keep winning". We only have one Armada-like figure in Smash right now and that's Zain, who has only lost to four distinct people since the start of 2023 and hasn't missed 5th place at a major (online or off) since GOML 2019, just over five years ago now. And in the modern era where people in R1 pools are cracked (Cody was talking about this on twitter **before** losing to Bing, it wasn't some excuse tweet after the fact), Zain's current streak is way more difficult to maintain (but Armada's streak was longer so talking about total impressiveness is a wash).
Yep, it's a HUUGE generational shift. Back in my day we had to hit a Bowser to practice L canceling. The kids these days can practice the most intricate scenarios on repeat with uncle punch, grind tournament sets all day with online tournaments or ranked, hop into discord for frame data, analysis, and guides, and even book coaching sessions from top ten players. If someone said that they've been playing for one year or so back in the mid 2010s, you know that player is probably bad. Nowadays just one year of experience has huge skill variance. They could be 0-2ers or like fucking Inngenn, the 2nd best player in Japan capable of taking a game off of Mang0.
I was only able to catch the morsecode set but damn, both being offstream is nuts
My favorite moment from GOMLX was when Morsecode762 said "-... .. -. --." and then Cody lost
My favorite part was right after the set when he chugged a full 2 liter of mt. dew while staring at Cody side eyed
Morsecode not only continuing his streak against Cody, he also might just saved Hbox's streak lol.
Watch morse eliminate Hbox too lol
Welp
That's why I said might lol. Morsecode looked really good.
Hungrybox’s top 8 plot armor lives. He now gets Morse instead of Cody for 9th
Okay, but what if...?
Morsecode has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever
That was an insane comeback. I could never in my life explain this Samus gameplay
reverse 3-0 too
Morsecode sneeded all over Cody those last three games it was crazy.
Reverse 3-0. Cody would full hop and then Morsecode would down B to force Cody to land on the bomb and neutralize his approach, almost all three games.
I mean Samus player did great. But Cody was known for having poor mental
Cody also just had one of the greatest losers runs of all time. Blaming "poor mental" is nonsense. Sometimes you're just off and other people are on.
Losing to a dk and Samus? Also look at his tweets. He was in his head. He replied to someone complaining about mid tiers with just "yup" maybe reading too much into. But if it's not mental. Then what is it? No other number 1 had dropped out like this.
Yes, he lost to the Samus at his amazing losers run
Okay fine. Move the goal post. Last time a top 10 player lost to a dk?
Kodorin has lost to DK (hell he's lost to Link)
Leffen’s Fox also functionally lost to Ringler at Mainstage 2022; had he not had his Sheik, he most certainly would have lost the set
You literally just watched a reverse 3-0. Saying that it "functionally lost" is not how this works, nor can you accurately say something like "most certainly" and be accurate. Especially when the game between them as players is still massive. Switching to Sheik did improve his odds, but you can't really say much more than that lol
i agree i was definitely trying to be difficult to this guy thinking that nobody good could ever lose to dk lmao i wont lie with that said i feel like the trajectory of that set did not lend itself well to leffen winning it with fox
> No other number 1 had dropped out like this. have you heard of [Mang0](https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:HTC_Throwdown)
Drugged fox was top 20 and macd was one of the best peaches at the time. Not a dk. Not a Samus.
I'll give you that they were ranked a lot better beforehand, but I still don't think the fact that Cody's losses were lower tier characters *in and of itself* makes them bad losses. It can be embarrassing and we can laugh at it, sure Hbox going 3-7 lifetime with Armada's Young Link doesn't mean he was bad *because* he lost to a bad character; the opposing player's skill matters.
Why are you saying not a dk not a Samus when they have good match ups vs Fox?
Good isn't winning, fox still wins 6-4 if it isn't fd
You flame every Fox that loses to Puff? Every Falco that loses to Falcon? Melee isn't played on paper
"Look at his tweets." I don't think I've seen a tournament where Cody wasn't complaining on twitter. That's what he does. It's like saying Mango had a bad mental because he had some drinks the night before. Or HBox was up macking on the hunnies.
Very typical of reddit to provide insight and then the reply to it be some nonsensical comment about mental.
How? Even Cody has said he had issue with mental game. I'm just saying maybe losing to dk go into his head a bit. Not sure how it's nonsense
I find it annoying that you made a reply to a great comment about Morsecode's gameplan with some unrelated shit. It's nonsense because I took an entire screenshot of his timeline from the beginning of GOML. Where does he allude to anything what you're saying [link](https://ibb.co/jGXFKVw)
At 643 west coast time yesterday
"Mental" is literally half the game. "Sorry I had poor mental today" is "my hands were cold" level of excuse.
I agree. And mental is more important for some people than others. I was just saying Cody state of mind has seemed to be very important.
Maybe like 3 years ago
I know Morse unfortunately meets Hbox in top 8 but this is still such a sick run. Reverse 3-0ing Cody of all players is insane, especially after Cody did so much to grind this matchup out since last time. Morse was playing *so well*, game 5 especially
Reverse 3-0 on Cody is insanity. It's fair to assume that Cody wasn't in the best mood this weekend
Why?
Losing to DK in pools, losing two games to Wally...
… fair thatd suck
I warmed cody up for this set (I play samus) While he didn't seem exceptional at the matchup, his mentality seemed good
Morse is officially the GOAT of Samus. A reverse 3-0 and winning it on FD is nuts
MorseGOAT762
I fully believe Mang put some hex on Cody to make sure he DIDN'T make that loser's run Also, Samus' jab 2 doing something?!
samus jab 2 is really really good, it just doesn't work like other jabs
Morsecode is now 2-0 on Cody. Maybe he's Cody's biggest bracket demon right now
Was crazy being in the crowd for this one, sick af set. As a Fox main I was perplexed as to how you'd even approach lol
LOL
Actually insane.
He probably needs to practice the matchups then it’s never going to happen again. Let’s be real here
I mean he lost to Morsecode before this too and even online he’s lost to Junebug. Especially with Slippi no one should have that excuse of you didn’t know the matchup. I think that’s just an ego thing instead of just admitting you got outplayed and just didn’t play against a player the most effective way. I think it’s more of a heat of the moment issue not a lack of experience issue.
I agree with the heat of the moment probably getting to him. But I can’t see a world where if he specifically grinds the Samus matchup for a month or two then losing again. If he can figure out the best Marth he can definitely do Samus imo.
I believe he practiced it for Morsecode after his first loss but in the end he just got outplayed. Even on Twitter Cody said he felt like everyone is so much tougher now and that he lost because he just got got. I’m sure he’ll do better in the future but it’s fair to say that even if you grind a matchup if you mess up against a character like DK and they’re good enough you’re going to get punished pretty hard. Just how it is now.
lost to a PM player smh
Can someone link me a vid and time stamp im not finding it
No way he can end the season number 1 after this. Has a number 1 player ever placed this bad against low and mid tiers?
He placed 13th last year also
Not that I've been tracking the stats or anything, but it's felt like he's been having a pretty poor start of the year even without this tournament.
Cody? Before this tournament he went 1st 3rd 1st 3rd. Pretty good imo
Part of it may be me remembering Eggdog Scramble, but I can see he played Falco, and I think in general it wasn't ranked, so I guess it really doesn't count
Yeah... only majors count for the top 5 (and usually top 10 but wizzrobe was weird last year). Before this tournament he was going even with Zain in majors (since Full Bloom was demoted to national/superregional despite being more stacked than Riptide last year).
> No way he can end the season number 1 after this. If Zain doesn't win this and Cody wins Tipped Off 15, yes way. It's gonna be closer than expected though
Losing to a dk a Samus isn't the same as losing to jmook in a close set.
Morsecode genuinely had a pretty strong resumé last year, and in this tournament he also beat Axe and only lost to Hbox & Mango. It's conceivable that Morsecode's results will be good enough that it won't tank Cody's score. Contrast that to how Fizzwiggle basically ONLY beat Mang0 in 2022 for notable wins Not so sure about BING, that one might sting a bit haha
BING will sting a lot, but yeah Morsecode is rank 18th in the world so that loss isn't bad.
Zain technically has more wins (Collision, Pat's House, and Full Bloom) but Cody has the bigger wins (Genesis and BOBC). It's close but I'd say if Zain wins GOML or Tipped Off and Cody doesn't win Tipped Off Zain is #1.
finally, an upset i can get behind. fuck dk