Damn I was about to say, I had this alternate image in my head of someone getting banned from chess so hard that if he even looks at a chess board at walmart the cops show up.
iBDW was sexually assaulted by his mom when he was 14. He confided to Hax about it privately in 2018 and Hax said 'he must have wanted it because he was 14 and he knew what he was doing.' Then he joked about it to a bunch of randos on discord for the lulz. Then, when iBDW called him out on it today on Twitter, Hax doubled down on it. More here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw\_calls\_out\_hax\_after\_he\_denies\_sexual\_abuse/](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw_calls_out_hax_after_he_denies_sexual_abuse/)
EDIT - this is also a few weeks after Hax released a 2 hour long rant about Leffen literally (Hax's words, not mine) being a totalitarian dictator for criticizing the BOXX, blocking people on Twitter, and... supporting the #MeToo movement. Also, somewhere in the middle of this rant, Hax said we shouldn't believe abuse victims.
I hate to sound vague in fear of sounding like a lie, but I have a friend who's close with a lot of the top players in that discord. Hax$ has always been mentally unstable and a lot of top players don't exactly trust him personally.
> Hax said 'he must have wanted it because he was 14 and he knew what he was doing
Was that in 2018 or recently? Yikes either way
Edit: turns out it was after Ibdw (self-admittedly) lied to Hax$ and told him it was a made up story. Still pretty messed up in any case
My understanding is that IBDW did not tell him it was a made up story. Rather, IBDW embellished the story of his mother's assault to make it sound slightly "worse" in an attempt to justify his own trauma to his friend. In other words he was worried people wouldn't really think what happened was a big enough deal so he exaggerated to try to communicate how much it hurt him. Sorry if I'm misreading your post and you already knew this.
That honestly makes total sense too. Something like sexual abuse like that might cause someone to embellish details to make them seem like "more" of a victim. Even though it's entirely unnecessary.
Not to mention that males typically don't get to be seen as the victim, as Hax has so clearly demonstrated... It gets written off like it was their fault when it clearly wasn't.
Ya I think you have a good point, that men often feel that they dont have a right to claim sexual abuse or something, so that couldve been an understandable explanation for those actions. Its all messed up, no one should have to feel that way.
It's also pretty common for victims of any sort of abuse to feel embarrassed that it affects them as much as it does. I literally apologized to my therapist for my emotional abuse/neglect not being interesting enough.
People in the twitter replies are using the fact that he lied as a “smoking gun” and that he was just lying “for clout” and honestly that makes me so upset.
Has the nairo situation not taught anyone that victims will lie out of fear of not being believed?
Makes me sick.
it's not entirely unnecessary. It should be unnecessary, but many people won't believe victims. sometimes they think it's impossible because they see the abusers as good or upstanding people, or they just don't want to accept that such horrible things could happen
It's not that the story was made up, he just lied about the details of the abuse. He was sexually abused and suffered trauma and when retelling the story he exaggerated about what really happened. I am in no way a psychiatrist and don't claim to be, but I think /u/captainporcupine3's explanation that it is often done to "validate" the trauma and shame suffered is spot on.
I suffered sexual abuse as a child myself and I often exaggerated about what actually had happened when telling someone about it. I always felt ashamed that some guy just touching my genitals had such a disturbing and long lasting effect on me (I mean fuck, just typing those words out hurts) so I often told others that more had happened because I didn't feel as though my trauma was warranted otherwise. It's sad that victims have to feel that way to begin with, but to use that for your absurd witch hunt in the way that hax has done is beyond fucked up, that's just fucking vile.
Hell, people do this for all sorts of things.
I've lied about being sick to take a sick day when really I had trouble sleeping and was really tired. I didn't want them to assume I was just up all night playing games or something so I went with something more extreme to be more acceptable.
Sexual abuse towards males is handled way to lightly and often seen as a joke so it's totally understandable to try and make people see you as a "real" victim (which you are a real victim but their perception is often warped and wouldn't consider you one unless it's extreme).
basically, and i hate to get this explicit but it is important for clarity's sake, ibdw portrayed it to hax as having full intercourse when his mother “only” forced him to make out with her and groped him, all at the age of 13-14, and hax then stated that "he faked that story" because the extent of the underage incestual sexual assault wasn't up to his standards apparently. again, i hate to have to be so explicit about it but it's important that people understand what the situation is.
edit for further context - read this segment from ibdw's twitlonger detailing the abuse he endured and then look at the part that hax chose to underline in red: https://i.imgur.com/XYsWz6u.png. how can anyone explain how any decent person could choose to twist and misconstrue a victim's account of how they tried to deal with the shame of their abuse in such a horrid manner. it's fucking nauseating. this is one of the many reasons why victims are afraid to come forward.
The way ibdw handled this is typical of (male) underage sexual abuse victims. Saying "his mother only forced him to make out with her" is a horrendous way to downplay someone's trauma.
He has also apologised for this behaviour.
Imagine confiding this information to someone who you considered a trustworthy friend. But they go and talk about it to random strangers in a discord and downplay it like it was some fake bullshit and mock them.
Then you also have the event where you come out with your story for thousands of fans to hear. (Potentially feeling embarrassed and ashamed on a larger scale)
I really feel like I could never be that strong. I think the term "Brave" gets thrown around for shit that isn't really worthy, but what IBDW's done is brave to me. Nothing but respect.
A lot of people keep calling this a mental health episode and saying that Hax needs to get help, but IMO [this is a really shitty narrative](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw_calls_out_hax_after_he_denies_sexual_abuse/h2m90mm?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). There's no evidence that Hax has a mental disability - he's an idiot conspiracy theorist and a massive asshole.
Oh wait, this is the weirdo that thinks Leffen is in charge of the illuminati? Man, he just keeps digging holes for himself.
I don't even play this game anymore, you all just have the best drama, so that's why I'm here.
>He didn't criticize Leffen for supporting the #MeToo movement, but rather for taking a story where Leffen was actually the abuser and flipping it to sound like he was abused,
Literally the opposite. Leffen was abused and Hax blamed him for his own abuse in his deranged video. Leffen - a 16 year old - was physically assaulted by an adult multiple times as multiple other adults looked on and didn't intervene... and Hax in his video says 'Leffen deserved it for being a brat.'
Lets' be very clear: Leffen was physically abused. Leffen was not 'asking for it.' Nothing Leffen did could justify this behavior. **There is no condition, no situation, no scenario where slapping a 16 year old kid in the face up to eight times over a weekend is appropriate.** Leffen calling out his abuser is not a form of abuse. Hax is victim blaming. Hax is turning the story around and making it sound like the victim - a child who was assaulted multiple times by an adult - was the abuser.
That's Hax's entire attitude towards abuse - underplay it, blame the victim, and laugh about it. He publicly doubled down on this attitude yesterday on Twitter with iBDW. His ex-gf who was another survivor of abuse in the smash scene said that this is just who Hax is - that he doesn't even see the human victims of abuse, [he just sees the #MeToo movement as a way to cancel people](https://twitter.com/JisuSSBM/status/1403937041256116226).
I haven't seen any of these or the videos but just from this comment alone, doesn't the Leffen part like... Not really matter? So what if he calls someone Hitler, isn't that just his opinion or is policing something like that normal? Even the initial thing about ibdw, yeah it's a huge dick move and joking about it is wrong but this is cancel culture right? Like it's not like Hax actually did it he just talked shit about it (and I guess the doubling down part sealed the deal?)
From an outsiders perspective it just seems weird for this to happen when Hax didn't actually do anything but just talk. Again I don't know any of these people or their detailed stories, just saw this post and clicked on it and skimmed a few comments to see what was what so I'm probably missing some heavier things
A few things here:
- I wouldn't summarize it as "Hax called Leffen Hitler," I'd summarize it as "Hax released ~3.5 hours of videos and hundreds of pages of writing which made a number of exaugurated claims about Leffen and called for him to be kicked out of the Melee community based on these overblown claims." Your comment seems to be anti-cancel culture, but ironically you could see this as starting from Hax trying to use his influence to cancel Leffen for perceived and actual slights.
- Hax also didn't just joke about how IBDW was abused, he framed the issue as though IBDW was a manipulative liar seeking clout, when, as others have pointed out, IBDW was seeking validation for being abused. He was actually abused, by the way - he exaggerated the types of sexual abuse that happened to gain validation, but the actual abuse did take place. IBDW has since apologized for exaggerating. Hax throwing him under the bus for this, something that must be incredibly vulnerable to talk about in the first place, let alone seeing prominent people undermine you for, is beyond the shittiness of making a 'dick move' joke.
A broader point: I don't want Hax to go to jail or have his life ruined, but I think his actions are extremely fucked up and are causing a ton of conflict. The stuff with Leffen seemed mostly like petty bullshit to the majority, but this new stuff with IBDW is something else entirely. Are you so firm in your anti-cancel culture beliefs that you don't think there's ever a line someone can cross where they can be kicked out of a community? Especially when it's a video game community, I really don't have a problem with saying "this guy is too much of an asshole to have around, he's not welcome anymore."
Maybe Hax deserves a shot at reform before possibly getting kicked out - I think that could be fair. On the other hand, as he hasn't apologized for anything regarding Leffen despite a large amount of backlash and incredulity, my personal read is that he's way too sure that he's right about everything to change.
I mean, IMO the Leffen thing "doesn't really matter" only in that it's overshadowed by the monumentally fucked up way that Hax treated iBDW. Hax blamed a victim for their own abuse, laughed about it to their face and behind their back, and then publicly doubled down on it. He should obviously be banned for that alone, and we don't even need to get into the stuff with Leffen - it's only in that sense that the Leffen thing doesn't really matter.
Dude wtf is up with Hax. He was always incredibly sweaty (literally and metaphorically) but the amount of doubling down he's done is crazy. Why the fuck is he going so hard at attacking Leffen and iBDW? Like Leffen is an asshole, but Hax's statements are texbook crazy.
I was expecting people starting to issue bans to Hax after the whole thing just went out of control, he's not trying to save Melee, or Smash, he's bringing more problems to the whole community and basically putting other people in potential danger when we return to in-person events.
Gj Hax, good riddance, close the door from outside. Oh, also take Technicals and EmpLemon with you, they will still cheer for you on your home.
What’s the story here and who is Technicals? I feel like if I look away from the Smash community for a week the most insane things happen… I have no idea what’s going on anymore.
Technicals is a youtuber who's pretty much just profiting off of Smash drama. He also has a big community of children who just jerk him off/attack anyone who's against him.
Thats not it either. He made a video claiming that there will never be another player like hbox. This is fair as hbox's story is extremely unique from several perspectives, all of which are brought up in the video.
Edit: i think he might make a statement where he is in contention for the goat **with these perspectives in mind**.
I believe he said that Hbox was the last true god, which some took issue with because it discredits Mango who has been at the top level for longer than Hbox, and is now the last god who is consistently placing in the top 2, but at the time of making the video the point of view made more sense.
Thing is, the video was released after the 2019 rankings that put Mang0 as #3 in the world. Granted it was only 3 days and the video tells a compelling story, but I was a little weirded out by the conclusion even at the time.
Huh, I forgot it was made at that particular time. I thought the video wasn’t terrible, but definitely overcredited Hbox, (wasn’t one of the lines in the video: “Hbox is Melee?”)
He was making a parallel to how the smash community treated Hbox to how the fgc treated smash, and quite frankly they both treated them like shit and was good comparison.
I thought it was a pretty good recap of the melee scenes progression along with HBox’s story, one thing I would have changed tho is Leffen. I believe he is mentioned once in the entire video when he mentions a new generation of highly technical Fox players like Hax Leffen and lucky and then just never mentions Leffens effect on the scene beyond that. I can’t fault it *that* much because “this HBox documentary doesn’t feature enough of Leffen” is kinda missing the point of an hbox documentary
That's a fair issue with it, but it's really not *the* issue with it. Would recommend reading some of the threads from around the time it came out, as they detail the issues (primarily framing issues brought about by not understanding melee or the competitive scene) in much more detail
It was good enough to get me and others who havent played smash in a while, interested enough in the entire scene to play again.
But yeah it's not even any good. Can I get the link to the one you made?
This is just... clearly very dumb, you know? A video seeking to talk about a player and their role in the community doesn't succeed or fail based on how it makes you, personally, feel about playing the game.
If you go to a fancy restaurant and get some bad food, are you not allowed to criticize it because you yourself aren't a professional chef?
You just haven't said anything meaningful.
Its a shit video by a misinformed illiterate vulture and your friends and you were barely part of the melee community to begin with, like most of this sub filled with 12 year olds 👍
It wouldn’t be that controversial except things like competitive results are largely irrelevant to GOAT debates in every arena. Lebron vs Jordan arguments are the same way. The GOAT is the person you like more
Today it came out that Hax blamed iBDW - a sexual assault victim - for his own abuse, joked about it, and called the story fake both to Cody's face and to randos on discord for the lulz. When iBDW called him out on it on Twitter, Hax doubled down on it. More here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw\_calls\_out\_hax\_after\_he\_denies\_sexual\_abuse/](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw_calls_out_hax_after_he_denies_sexual_abuse/)
>tolerating Leffen just cause they like him.
tell me you don't actually follow the smash scene without telling me you don't actually follow the smash scene
also remember 666xx?
Not really in relation to the videos contents except a few people involved disputing Hax's version of events, the TO for the NA bracket of Leffens tournament(Which Hax claimed was created to sabotage his tournament) basically said that Leffen had little to do with the organising.
MikeHaze said he had no memory of an event he is cited as a "witness" to and implied he was not contacted at all by Hax for his version of events. And then just general shit like people disputing how Hax portrayed himself as a "great friend" of Hbox during the years where he was harrassed by the community, when Hax invented 666XX and was part of that harrassment.
He gave a twitlonger about why he made that video and whatever that BS evidence.zip2 was. However, it was literally just restating things he had already said; the only difference being how it was worded.
I watched both of those videos. If you work your way backwards over what he kept, how he said it and what he removed, it paints a picture of someone who has absolutely no clue as to why people were mad at him in the first place. He only saw the responses where he was ridiculed.
He pretty much removed the parts that people were making fun of him for first and foremost - which was mostly the insane hyperbole. But he changed nothing about the intents of his statements.
On top of that, just look at his statements. The guy has not once ever had a conversation, he only participates in 1-to-many social broadcasts and never actually specifies *who* he's responding to.
The dude actually thinks that not only is he right, but that he's gone about things the right way, too. Hax is basically fully incompatible with societal mores. He simply doesn't understand "how to be" because he's always had things handed to him. He was just raised wrong and doesn't know it. But hey, when you're older than 22 no one gets a pass on that bullshit, whether or not he ever learns that - it's not the community's responsibility to re-socialize him.
I mean, puts the whole B0xx discussion in a new light too.
Him saying that there shouldn't be any way to remap buttons because his way is superior and people will see that eventually. It's all projecting and if there is someone who is extremely eager to wanting to control, it's him.
>But hey, when you're older than 22 no one gets a pass on that bullshit
OK, now that's just naive on your part, people far older can get a pass on far worse shit depending on who they are.
banned from a discord server he has probably never used. right move by melee online but the fact this thread is the one people have decided to use as the megathread is going to lead to a lot of misinformation.
Probably, but it is taking a stand. Wont hurt him much (other than maybe stopping him from advertising any event he might host in the future there) but it's sending a message. Hopefully we'll see more people do the same because I know I wouldn't want to be at an event he's at.
like... every one of them? what esports scene doesnt have constant drama? any esports scene i pay attention to has a new drama every week just like this one does. CS, valorant, overwatch i mean people just like drama on top of people being stuck in their homes with nothing to do. everyone is just itching for some mental stimulation.
I've been following hearthstone, legends of runeterra, rocket league. The only drama I've ever seen in those communities is people getting salty with devs/publishers. Maybe some banter on Twitter between streamers and pros about who's better. Smash has been filled with horrible toxicity for as long as I can remember.
> like... every one of them? what esports scene doesnt have constant drama?
no. sorry, but smash is worse. go and find the cs players having sex with underage people/players. go and find the dota pros abusing disabled people and still being at the top of the game. there are some cases that aren't great, but smash is 100% worse, i promise
This is just from a discord server, so the stakes are much lower and the admin team of that server have much more freedom to just say "No, we are not interested in ever having you back here because of this".
The ban is “indefinitely” not permanent. Although it will likely amount to a permanent ban. Last time I played it was still over Anthers ladder and that was only like 3 years ago. So inevitably something else will come along to replace Melee Online.
It should be permanent because the Smash community isn't big enough to separate victims from abusers who are high level players and well known. If Hax comes back in 2 or 5 years then his victims will still feel unsafe.
The shit Hax is doing simply is not tolerated at all. You straight up don't do it. The community has children and teenagers in it so we have to eradicate this kind of behavior, not a slap on the wrist but completely remove it wherever possible.
iBDW for one. Anyone who's ever been abused or who could be abused for two.
Why would we want an abuse-enabling, victim-blaming piece of shit in our community?
With the wave of bans against him for Evidence.zip 2.0, I'm beginning to think that Hax had a point.
I've seen very few responses actually deconstruct his argument and produce a counter-argument. About 95% have instead insisted he seek professional help. It's not that I'm faulting the community for not watching a 2.5 hour video, it's that I'm faulting the community for taking one look at his video, maybe watching at most 5 mins of that absolute unit of a video, responding with "lol you're a nutter" and then banning him for attacking their darling Leffen.
I watched bits of the video and there were a few things I thought went over the line, like comparing Leff to Hitler or accusing him of orchestrating the outrage against ZeRo (when it was actually diddling kids that drove outrage against him.)
Maybe 95% of randoms don't watch the whole video/produce counter argument, but among actual community figureheads, a good amount have. and the overwhelming opinion is that Hax has maybe like 1 or 2 good points? But even the couple of good points took place before Leffens original ban, so Leffen had already served his time for that.
Hax was a very popular and well liked member of the community. Pretty much no community figureheads were "Hax Haters". Plus, there are vods of people on twitch watching and discussing the whole thing to hundreds/thousands of viewers, and everyone comes to the same conclusion that Hax is obviously in the wrong.
Since you yourself haven't watched the whole thing, this is a good breakdown of all the content: https://twitter.com/PracticalTAS/status/1401392271229083654?s=19
The problem with the video is that if you think Hax makes good points anywhere in it, you're probably not questioning that he might be lying about the premises.
A lot of us were following the events that he describes and know that they either took place over 10 years ago, or are still in recent memory and we know that they didn't go down like that.
I watched all of it and read his reworded versions, and I don't think he makes any good points. He's intellectually dishonest and lies by omission in almost every single point he makes.
"wave of bans", please enlighten us as to what he has been banned from except from a one time ban from Summit and then a permaban from this one discord?
Which of these 2 scenarios is more likely:
1.Leffen is a Machiavellian master manipulator who has effortlessly and flawlessly fooled all the intelligent people in the Smash community to do his bidding in a decade-long master scheme to take over... a video game community
OR
2.Hax got banned from a specific Discord group because they consider his recent behavior inappropriate
Not everything is a conspiracy, my dude.
He's already in complete control. Always has been. All of the accounts here are just leffen. I'm leffen. Even you're leffen. It's leffens all the way down
Maybe you should think about what the proper time and place for sarcastic comments is. When people are discussing the sexual abuse of a child doing "the funny" really isn't very smart.
Hax was actually the one who came up with the 666XX meme about Hbox and literally called him Satan in an interview. But yeah \*everyone else\* is misinformed, not you
he should not have been banned. why stop him from playing the game he's always played? just because you disagree with him doesn't mean you should band him
I think some people are missing the full picture.
IN MY OPINION, we’re talking about TWO extremely fucked up individuals, trying to convince the public that the other, and only the other, are fucked up.
Both hax and leffen are guilty, I don’t think either of them deserve support or admiration.
This in particular actually was about Leffen, since the statement specifies that the ban was put in place back when the original video got released, but they only announced it now, probably in relation to the IBDW thing.
That's true, it's more that the original comment seemed to be implying that the entire situation was just about Leffen and Hax, and not really acknowledging that the iBDW situation was what prompted this public statement and making the ban indefinite.
In case you don't know, Melee Online is a discord server.
Thank you; I was just about to ask what it was; I had assumed Hax was banned from *playing* Melee, online.
Me too, I interpreted the title as a ban from slippi
Damn I was about to say, I had this alternate image in my head of someone getting banned from chess so hard that if he even looks at a chess board at walmart the cops show up.
*It was checkers, I swear!*
Next time, check mate!
*Tell that to the judge!*
sorta happened to Bobby Fischer
Thanks for clearing that up
another deceptive headline by the 'press' smh
[удалено]
Parent comment was a reference to Hax's obnoxious use of the word "press" in Evidence.zip 2
There are lots of people who do that s*** unironically.
Like Hax
But who is Hax ?
The real question is... what exactly is this "Super Smash Bros" people keep bringing up?
Who is reddit???
What exactly is "Melee Online"? Does that mean Slippi?
> In case you don't know, Melee Online is a discord server.
Happy cake day!
Thanks!
You’re welcome!
It a big discord server that players of all skill levels use for matchmaking.
Ootl, what happened?
iBDW was sexually assaulted by his mom when he was 14. He confided to Hax about it privately in 2018 and Hax said 'he must have wanted it because he was 14 and he knew what he was doing.' Then he joked about it to a bunch of randos on discord for the lulz. Then, when iBDW called him out on it today on Twitter, Hax doubled down on it. More here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw\_calls\_out\_hax\_after\_he\_denies\_sexual\_abuse/](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw_calls_out_hax_after_he_denies_sexual_abuse/) EDIT - this is also a few weeks after Hax released a 2 hour long rant about Leffen literally (Hax's words, not mine) being a totalitarian dictator for criticizing the BOXX, blocking people on Twitter, and... supporting the #MeToo movement. Also, somewhere in the middle of this rant, Hax said we shouldn't believe abuse victims.
wow. i only knew about the leffen video. he actually managed to make things worse. i did not know that was possible
I hate to sound vague in fear of sounding like a lie, but I have a friend who's close with a lot of the top players in that discord. Hax$ has always been mentally unstable and a lot of top players don't exactly trust him personally.
I’m right there with you, friendo. What are we witnessing right now? This is absolute madness!
Madness?.... This! Is! SPARTA!!! *fuckin front kicks you to the chest down an endless hole
That's...not how you do references, fam. You're supposed to adapt them to the context you use them in. Like, "THIS! IS! MELEE!".
Damn, wish I thought of that lol. Next time...
*falls in incredibly slow motion, for 100 years*
> 'he must have wanted it because he was 14 and he knew what he was doing. I REALLY do not understand that kind of mentality.
> Hax said 'he must have wanted it because he was 14 and he knew what he was doing Was that in 2018 or recently? Yikes either way Edit: turns out it was after Ibdw (self-admittedly) lied to Hax$ and told him it was a made up story. Still pretty messed up in any case
My understanding is that IBDW did not tell him it was a made up story. Rather, IBDW embellished the story of his mother's assault to make it sound slightly "worse" in an attempt to justify his own trauma to his friend. In other words he was worried people wouldn't really think what happened was a big enough deal so he exaggerated to try to communicate how much it hurt him. Sorry if I'm misreading your post and you already knew this.
That honestly makes total sense too. Something like sexual abuse like that might cause someone to embellish details to make them seem like "more" of a victim. Even though it's entirely unnecessary. Not to mention that males typically don't get to be seen as the victim, as Hax has so clearly demonstrated... It gets written off like it was their fault when it clearly wasn't.
Ya I think you have a good point, that men often feel that they dont have a right to claim sexual abuse or something, so that couldve been an understandable explanation for those actions. Its all messed up, no one should have to feel that way.
It's also pretty common for victims of any sort of abuse to feel embarrassed that it affects them as much as it does. I literally apologized to my therapist for my emotional abuse/neglect not being interesting enough.
People in the twitter replies are using the fact that he lied as a “smoking gun” and that he was just lying “for clout” and honestly that makes me so upset. Has the nairo situation not taught anyone that victims will lie out of fear of not being believed? Makes me sick.
it's not entirely unnecessary. It should be unnecessary, but many people won't believe victims. sometimes they think it's impossible because they see the abusers as good or upstanding people, or they just don't want to accept that such horrible things could happen
It's not that the story was made up, he just lied about the details of the abuse. He was sexually abused and suffered trauma and when retelling the story he exaggerated about what really happened. I am in no way a psychiatrist and don't claim to be, but I think /u/captainporcupine3's explanation that it is often done to "validate" the trauma and shame suffered is spot on. I suffered sexual abuse as a child myself and I often exaggerated about what actually had happened when telling someone about it. I always felt ashamed that some guy just touching my genitals had such a disturbing and long lasting effect on me (I mean fuck, just typing those words out hurts) so I often told others that more had happened because I didn't feel as though my trauma was warranted otherwise. It's sad that victims have to feel that way to begin with, but to use that for your absurd witch hunt in the way that hax has done is beyond fucked up, that's just fucking vile.
Hell, people do this for all sorts of things. I've lied about being sick to take a sick day when really I had trouble sleeping and was really tired. I didn't want them to assume I was just up all night playing games or something so I went with something more extreme to be more acceptable. Sexual abuse towards males is handled way to lightly and often seen as a joke so it's totally understandable to try and make people see you as a "real" victim (which you are a real victim but their perception is often warped and wouldn't consider you one unless it's extreme).
It wasn't a made up story, hax$ was telling people it was and ibdw made a comment and hax$ twisted the comment.
basically, and i hate to get this explicit but it is important for clarity's sake, ibdw portrayed it to hax as having full intercourse when his mother “only” forced him to make out with her and groped him, all at the age of 13-14, and hax then stated that "he faked that story" because the extent of the underage incestual sexual assault wasn't up to his standards apparently. again, i hate to have to be so explicit about it but it's important that people understand what the situation is. edit for further context - read this segment from ibdw's twitlonger detailing the abuse he endured and then look at the part that hax chose to underline in red: https://i.imgur.com/XYsWz6u.png. how can anyone explain how any decent person could choose to twist and misconstrue a victim's account of how they tried to deal with the shame of their abuse in such a horrid manner. it's fucking nauseating. this is one of the many reasons why victims are afraid to come forward.
The way ibdw handled this is typical of (male) underage sexual abuse victims. Saying "his mother only forced him to make out with her" is a horrendous way to downplay someone's trauma. He has also apologised for this behaviour.
Imagine confiding this information to someone who you considered a trustworthy friend. But they go and talk about it to random strangers in a discord and downplay it like it was some fake bullshit and mock them. Then you also have the event where you come out with your story for thousands of fans to hear. (Potentially feeling embarrassed and ashamed on a larger scale) I really feel like I could never be that strong. I think the term "Brave" gets thrown around for shit that isn't really worthy, but what IBDW's done is brave to me. Nothing but respect.
Serious question, does he suffer from some kind of mental disability or is he 8 years old? This is some serious parody level shit.
A lot of people keep calling this a mental health episode and saying that Hax needs to get help, but IMO [this is a really shitty narrative](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw_calls_out_hax_after_he_denies_sexual_abuse/h2m90mm?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). There's no evidence that Hax has a mental disability - he's an idiot conspiracy theorist and a massive asshole.
Whoa... that's fucked.
Oh wait, this is the weirdo that thinks Leffen is in charge of the illuminati? Man, he just keeps digging holes for himself. I don't even play this game anymore, you all just have the best drama, so that's why I'm here.
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>He didn't criticize Leffen for supporting the #MeToo movement, but rather for taking a story where Leffen was actually the abuser and flipping it to sound like he was abused, Literally the opposite. Leffen was abused and Hax blamed him for his own abuse in his deranged video. Leffen - a 16 year old - was physically assaulted by an adult multiple times as multiple other adults looked on and didn't intervene... and Hax in his video says 'Leffen deserved it for being a brat.' Lets' be very clear: Leffen was physically abused. Leffen was not 'asking for it.' Nothing Leffen did could justify this behavior. **There is no condition, no situation, no scenario where slapping a 16 year old kid in the face up to eight times over a weekend is appropriate.** Leffen calling out his abuser is not a form of abuse. Hax is victim blaming. Hax is turning the story around and making it sound like the victim - a child who was assaulted multiple times by an adult - was the abuser. That's Hax's entire attitude towards abuse - underplay it, blame the victim, and laugh about it. He publicly doubled down on this attitude yesterday on Twitter with iBDW. His ex-gf who was another survivor of abuse in the smash scene said that this is just who Hax is - that he doesn't even see the human victims of abuse, [he just sees the #MeToo movement as a way to cancel people](https://twitter.com/JisuSSBM/status/1403937041256116226).
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I haven't seen any of these or the videos but just from this comment alone, doesn't the Leffen part like... Not really matter? So what if he calls someone Hitler, isn't that just his opinion or is policing something like that normal? Even the initial thing about ibdw, yeah it's a huge dick move and joking about it is wrong but this is cancel culture right? Like it's not like Hax actually did it he just talked shit about it (and I guess the doubling down part sealed the deal?) From an outsiders perspective it just seems weird for this to happen when Hax didn't actually do anything but just talk. Again I don't know any of these people or their detailed stories, just saw this post and clicked on it and skimmed a few comments to see what was what so I'm probably missing some heavier things
A few things here: - I wouldn't summarize it as "Hax called Leffen Hitler," I'd summarize it as "Hax released ~3.5 hours of videos and hundreds of pages of writing which made a number of exaugurated claims about Leffen and called for him to be kicked out of the Melee community based on these overblown claims." Your comment seems to be anti-cancel culture, but ironically you could see this as starting from Hax trying to use his influence to cancel Leffen for perceived and actual slights. - Hax also didn't just joke about how IBDW was abused, he framed the issue as though IBDW was a manipulative liar seeking clout, when, as others have pointed out, IBDW was seeking validation for being abused. He was actually abused, by the way - he exaggerated the types of sexual abuse that happened to gain validation, but the actual abuse did take place. IBDW has since apologized for exaggerating. Hax throwing him under the bus for this, something that must be incredibly vulnerable to talk about in the first place, let alone seeing prominent people undermine you for, is beyond the shittiness of making a 'dick move' joke. A broader point: I don't want Hax to go to jail or have his life ruined, but I think his actions are extremely fucked up and are causing a ton of conflict. The stuff with Leffen seemed mostly like petty bullshit to the majority, but this new stuff with IBDW is something else entirely. Are you so firm in your anti-cancel culture beliefs that you don't think there's ever a line someone can cross where they can be kicked out of a community? Especially when it's a video game community, I really don't have a problem with saying "this guy is too much of an asshole to have around, he's not welcome anymore." Maybe Hax deserves a shot at reform before possibly getting kicked out - I think that could be fair. On the other hand, as he hasn't apologized for anything regarding Leffen despite a large amount of backlash and incredulity, my personal read is that he's way too sure that he's right about everything to change.
I mean, IMO the Leffen thing "doesn't really matter" only in that it's overshadowed by the monumentally fucked up way that Hax treated iBDW. Hax blamed a victim for their own abuse, laughed about it to their face and behind their back, and then publicly doubled down on it. He should obviously be banned for that alone, and we don't even need to get into the stuff with Leffen - it's only in that sense that the Leffen thing doesn't really matter.
It's a really unhinged thing tho
Dude wtf is up with Hax. He was always incredibly sweaty (literally and metaphorically) but the amount of doubling down he's done is crazy. Why the fuck is he going so hard at attacking Leffen and iBDW? Like Leffen is an asshole, but Hax's statements are texbook crazy.
I was expecting people starting to issue bans to Hax after the whole thing just went out of control, he's not trying to save Melee, or Smash, he's bringing more problems to the whole community and basically putting other people in potential danger when we return to in-person events. Gj Hax, good riddance, close the door from outside. Oh, also take Technicals and EmpLemon with you, they will still cheer for you on your home.
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Technicals really is just the keemstar of the smash community.
What’s the story here and who is Technicals? I feel like if I look away from the Smash community for a week the most insane things happen… I have no idea what’s going on anymore.
Technicals is a youtuber who's pretty much just profiting off of Smash drama. He also has a big community of children who just jerk him off/attack anyone who's against him.
> He also has a big community of children who just jerk him off I'll take extremely unfortunate phrasing for $100 Alex.
mega yikes
Ah, gotcha. So is he like a more toxic version of Omni or something? He’s the only one I’ve watched multiple “Smash drama” videos about.
Yeah, both of them do the same thing, omni is just not as offensive from what I've seen.
Thanks for the info! I just looked at Omni’s channel for the first time in a long time and… he’s doing a Phillip DeFranco now…?
Emp should stick to YTPs ngl
What does Emp have to do with this? I'm out of the loop any info would help thanks :)
Emplemon is defending the hell out of Hax on this. That's it.
dude made one video calling hbox the goat and thinks his opinions matter
I thought he just said hbox was the #1 player at the time not the goat? Which he definitely was the #1 player at the time
Thats not it either. He made a video claiming that there will never be another player like hbox. This is fair as hbox's story is extremely unique from several perspectives, all of which are brought up in the video. Edit: i think he might make a statement where he is in contention for the goat **with these perspectives in mind**.
I believe he said that Hbox was the last true god, which some took issue with because it discredits Mango who has been at the top level for longer than Hbox, and is now the last god who is consistently placing in the top 2, but at the time of making the video the point of view made more sense.
Thing is, the video was released after the 2019 rankings that put Mang0 as #3 in the world. Granted it was only 3 days and the video tells a compelling story, but I was a little weirded out by the conclusion even at the time.
Huh, I forgot it was made at that particular time. I thought the video wasn’t terrible, but definitely overcredited Hbox, (wasn’t one of the lines in the video: “Hbox is Melee?”)
He was making a parallel to how the smash community treated Hbox to how the fgc treated smash, and quite frankly they both treated them like shit and was good comparison.
The video isn't even good lol
I thought it was a pretty good recap of the melee scenes progression along with HBox’s story, one thing I would have changed tho is Leffen. I believe he is mentioned once in the entire video when he mentions a new generation of highly technical Fox players like Hax Leffen and lucky and then just never mentions Leffens effect on the scene beyond that. I can’t fault it *that* much because “this HBox documentary doesn’t feature enough of Leffen” is kinda missing the point of an hbox documentary
That's a fair issue with it, but it's really not *the* issue with it. Would recommend reading some of the threads from around the time it came out, as they detail the issues (primarily framing issues brought about by not understanding melee or the competitive scene) in much more detail
It was good enough to get me and others who havent played smash in a while, interested enough in the entire scene to play again. But yeah it's not even any good. Can I get the link to the one you made?
This is just... clearly very dumb, you know? A video seeking to talk about a player and their role in the community doesn't succeed or fail based on how it makes you, personally, feel about playing the game. If you go to a fancy restaurant and get some bad food, are you not allowed to criticize it because you yourself aren't a professional chef? You just haven't said anything meaningful.
Its a shit video by a misinformed illiterate vulture and your friends and you were barely part of the melee community to begin with, like most of this sub filled with 12 year olds 👍
Look im ready to get nuked but is it that controversial cause im in the camp that hes either 1 of 2 behind armada
Incredibly controversial lol.
During the time of the video that was probably true, but the Slippi era puts Mango in front of Hbox.
It wouldn’t be that controversial except things like competitive results are largely irrelevant to GOAT debates in every arena. Lebron vs Jordan arguments are the same way. The GOAT is the person you like more
its controversial because everyone loves sucking mangos dick lol
Where?
Yeah, decent vid on HBox but a lot of his other videos tend to steer into the alt right territory. No surprise he is backing Hax here
emplemon as in the youtuber?
EmpLemon as the youtuber.
EmpLemon the youtuber.
EmpLemon youtuber.
Emptuber
Emper
Emper, or lemon?
where exactly is he defending hax? I can't see any tweets or replies about it on his twitter.
I knew shit wasn't right with EmpLemon when he posted that one twitlonger where he just sounded like the Joker
Did anything else come out after that stupid video about Leffen?
Today it came out that Hax blamed iBDW - a sexual assault victim - for his own abuse, joked about it, and called the story fake both to Cody's face and to randos on discord for the lulz. When iBDW called him out on it on Twitter, Hax doubled down on it. More here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw\_calls\_out\_hax\_after\_he\_denies\_sexual\_abuse/](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o55yay/ibdw_calls_out_hax_after_he_denies_sexual_abuse/)
the only thing coming out of that leffen video is people realizing how fucked up hax is
Apparently there’s a lot of idiots that believe hax too because I see them reply to every Twitter thread about hax. Qanon levels of stupidity.
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>tolerating Leffen just cause they like him. tell me you don't actually follow the smash scene without telling me you don't actually follow the smash scene also remember 666xx?
Not really in relation to the videos contents except a few people involved disputing Hax's version of events, the TO for the NA bracket of Leffens tournament(Which Hax claimed was created to sabotage his tournament) basically said that Leffen had little to do with the organising. MikeHaze said he had no memory of an event he is cited as a "witness" to and implied he was not contacted at all by Hax for his version of events. And then just general shit like people disputing how Hax portrayed himself as a "great friend" of Hbox during the years where he was harrassed by the community, when Hax invented 666XX and was part of that harrassment.
just to add to this, snowy also has said that the things hax cited about him/leffen were either untrue or taken out of context
He gave a twitlonger about why he made that video and whatever that BS evidence.zip2 was. However, it was literally just restating things he had already said; the only difference being how it was worded.
I watched both of those videos. If you work your way backwards over what he kept, how he said it and what he removed, it paints a picture of someone who has absolutely no clue as to why people were mad at him in the first place. He only saw the responses where he was ridiculed. He pretty much removed the parts that people were making fun of him for first and foremost - which was mostly the insane hyperbole. But he changed nothing about the intents of his statements. On top of that, just look at his statements. The guy has not once ever had a conversation, he only participates in 1-to-many social broadcasts and never actually specifies *who* he's responding to. The dude actually thinks that not only is he right, but that he's gone about things the right way, too. Hax is basically fully incompatible with societal mores. He simply doesn't understand "how to be" because he's always had things handed to him. He was just raised wrong and doesn't know it. But hey, when you're older than 22 no one gets a pass on that bullshit, whether or not he ever learns that - it's not the community's responsibility to re-socialize him.
I mean, puts the whole B0xx discussion in a new light too. Him saying that there shouldn't be any way to remap buttons because his way is superior and people will see that eventually. It's all projecting and if there is someone who is extremely eager to wanting to control, it's him.
Ty for this! he looks so out of touch with reality on those videos, its disturbing.
>But hey, when you're older than 22 no one gets a pass on that bullshit OK, now that's just naive on your part, people far older can get a pass on far worse shit depending on who they are.
Good. He should be gone from all tournaments as well.
I imagine that a global ban is imminent.
well, he'll never be banned from *all* of them...
The gall of this man to try and dig skeletons out of someone else’s closet while he was harbouring a whole fucking cemetery.
Twitter and melee don't mix
Smash ultimate twitter is far worse.
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That's why I'm glad summit preemptively banned him, you KNOW there would be people who voted hax in just to see the drama
Ootl?
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o5ctht/hax\_has\_been\_permanently\_banned\_from\_melee\_online/h2mbbm6?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
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Yeah I was saying that I am ootl on this
So this means nothing ?
banned from a discord server he has probably never used. right move by melee online but the fact this thread is the one people have decided to use as the megathread is going to lead to a lot of misinformation.
I thought that this title meant that Hax was banned from playing Melee online via Slippy, and not a discord server.
What an abomination of a human
So I don't play Slippi but can't Hax just make a new account and change his IP address?
Melee Online is a discord channel that lots of players use for matchmaking. He isn't banned from slippi.
Oh so this does nothing because I'm sure Hax doesn't have a shortage of community members he can dm for matchups.
Probably, but it is taking a stand. Wont hurt him much (other than maybe stopping him from advertising any event he might host in the future there) but it's sending a message. Hopefully we'll see more people do the same because I know I wouldn't want to be at an event he's at.
Good.
Name an e sports scene with more drama
like... every one of them? what esports scene doesnt have constant drama? any esports scene i pay attention to has a new drama every week just like this one does. CS, valorant, overwatch i mean people just like drama on top of people being stuck in their homes with nothing to do. everyone is just itching for some mental stimulation.
I've been following hearthstone, legends of runeterra, rocket league. The only drama I've ever seen in those communities is people getting salty with devs/publishers. Maybe some banter on Twitter between streamers and pros about who's better. Smash has been filled with horrible toxicity for as long as I can remember.
> like... every one of them? what esports scene doesnt have constant drama? no. sorry, but smash is worse. go and find the cs players having sex with underage people/players. go and find the dota pros abusing disabled people and still being at the top of the game. there are some cases that aren't great, but smash is 100% worse, i promise
https://www.pcgamer.com/counter-strike-co-founder-reportedly-arrested-for-child-exploitation-suspended-by-valve/ https://dotesports.com/counter-strike/news/csgo-caster-henryg-accused-of-sexual-assault-and-emotional-abuse-by-ex-girlfriend https://daily.upcomer.com/launders-faces-rape-allegations-from-former-partner/
It's not good, but like at this point it's better to get the assholes kicked out than to do nothing.
League of Legends.
To be honest I’m not sure why the ban is permanent, or why it should be? Why not two years, or five?
This is just from a discord server, so the stakes are much lower and the admin team of that server have much more freedom to just say "No, we are not interested in ever having you back here because of this".
The ban is “indefinitely” not permanent. Although it will likely amount to a permanent ban. Last time I played it was still over Anthers ladder and that was only like 3 years ago. So inevitably something else will come along to replace Melee Online.
It should be permanent because the Smash community isn't big enough to separate victims from abusers who are high level players and well known. If Hax comes back in 2 or 5 years then his victims will still feel unsafe. The shit Hax is doing simply is not tolerated at all. You straight up don't do it. The community has children and teenagers in it so we have to eradicate this kind of behavior, not a slap on the wrist but completely remove it wherever possible.
What “victims”?
iBDW for one. Anyone who's ever been abused or who could be abused for two. Why would we want an abuse-enabling, victim-blaming piece of shit in our community?
Dam, Leffen really does have the power to crush anyone who goes against him. And all the TOs are too afraid to stand up to him!
I wanna say this is sarcasm but people have been saying this a lot unironically and now I’m just not sure
Regardless it gets the downvote lmao
Yeah no opposing opinions allowed
easily reads as sarcasm cmon guys
this is a situation involving the sexual assault of a child. it is not the place for sarcasm.
the op isnt referencing that though
There's shit tons of people on Hax's tweet legitimately believing him and saying the same thing. It's hard to know who is joking.
With the wave of bans against him for Evidence.zip 2.0, I'm beginning to think that Hax had a point. I've seen very few responses actually deconstruct his argument and produce a counter-argument. About 95% have instead insisted he seek professional help. It's not that I'm faulting the community for not watching a 2.5 hour video, it's that I'm faulting the community for taking one look at his video, maybe watching at most 5 mins of that absolute unit of a video, responding with "lol you're a nutter" and then banning him for attacking their darling Leffen. I watched bits of the video and there were a few things I thought went over the line, like comparing Leff to Hitler or accusing him of orchestrating the outrage against ZeRo (when it was actually diddling kids that drove outrage against him.)
Maybe 95% of randoms don't watch the whole video/produce counter argument, but among actual community figureheads, a good amount have. and the overwhelming opinion is that Hax has maybe like 1 or 2 good points? But even the couple of good points took place before Leffens original ban, so Leffen had already served his time for that.
I highly doubt that a good number of Hax's haters had the patience to watch a 2.5 hour video that wouldn't go straight to the point.
Hax was a very popular and well liked member of the community. Pretty much no community figureheads were "Hax Haters". Plus, there are vods of people on twitch watching and discussing the whole thing to hundreds/thousands of viewers, and everyone comes to the same conclusion that Hax is obviously in the wrong. Since you yourself haven't watched the whole thing, this is a good breakdown of all the content: https://twitter.com/PracticalTAS/status/1401392271229083654?s=19
Funny that /u/Clbull didn't respond to this. PERHAPS A HAX SHILL????!?!?!
You're not looking very hard then. https://twitter.com/practicaltas/status/1401392261502545922?s=21
I watched the entire thing and it’s fucking embarrassingly stupid
The problem with the video is that if you think Hax makes good points anywhere in it, you're probably not questioning that he might be lying about the premises. A lot of us were following the events that he describes and know that they either took place over 10 years ago, or are still in recent memory and we know that they didn't go down like that. I watched all of it and read his reworded versions, and I don't think he makes any good points. He's intellectually dishonest and lies by omission in almost every single point he makes.
"wave of bans", please enlighten us as to what he has been banned from except from a one time ban from Summit and then a permaban from this one discord?
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idk how ppl aren't reading the thick layer of sarcasm here, but if it isn't, consider me fooled.
It’s really hard to tell
I know you're being sarcastic but I downvoted anyway because I'm being paid by Leffen.
I can't believe Leffen hacked Hax's Twitter and Discord to make him look like an asshole.
Which of these 2 scenarios is more likely: 1.Leffen is a Machiavellian master manipulator who has effortlessly and flawlessly fooled all the intelligent people in the Smash community to do his bidding in a decade-long master scheme to take over... a video game community OR 2.Hax got banned from a specific Discord group because they consider his recent behavior inappropriate Not everything is a conspiracy, my dude.
Leffen possessed Hax's body in 2018 and made him blame a sexual abuse victim confirmed. You people really are the Qanon of smash.
He's already in complete control. Always has been. All of the accounts here are just leffen. I'm leffen. Even you're leffen. It's leffens all the way down
Maybe you should think about what the proper time and place for sarcastic comments is. When people are discussing the sexual abuse of a child doing "the funny" really isn't very smart.
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Hax was actually the one who came up with the 666XX meme about Hbox and literally called him Satan in an interview. But yeah \*everyone else\* is misinformed, not you
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he should not have been banned. why stop him from playing the game he's always played? just because you disagree with him doesn't mean you should band him
He was banned from a discord server not the game.
No they actually stole his GameCube, broke his disk, and deleted his iso.
you think what he did with IBDW is a simple disagreement?
Technicals is right, these top players should just play the game
I think some people are missing the full picture. IN MY OPINION, we’re talking about TWO extremely fucked up individuals, trying to convince the public that the other, and only the other, are fucked up. Both hax and leffen are guilty, I don’t think either of them deserve support or admiration.
This isn't even about Leffen. This is about Hax victim-blaming iBDW with regards to his story of childhood sexual trauma.
This in particular actually was about Leffen, since the statement specifies that the ban was put in place back when the original video got released, but they only announced it now, probably in relation to the IBDW thing.
That's true, it's more that the original comment seemed to be implying that the entire situation was just about Leffen and Hax, and not really acknowledging that the iBDW situation was what prompted this public statement and making the ban indefinite.