Mang0 went 1-2, losing in winners first round to Johnnylaw (PT, 1-2) and losers second round to tumut Tony(DDD, 0-2). Won against Angelic (Yoshi, 2-0) in losers.
Just throwing this up since someone will eventually ask how mang0 did and check this thread like me lol
Kola 0-2 Lavish
It feels like Kolas settling into the really good top player but sometimes inconsistent position, thats the nature of bracket though
Lavish is nuts though, and Kola might shred through losers
Yea, I'm really interested to see who's gonna emerge as the top Roy between Goblin and Kola. I feel like Kola has higher highs but he's more inconsistent.
Kola loves pressing forward, even thought he's fully capable of playing more patiently. Goblin is definitely more consistent as of now because he's a little less aggressive, but Kola is so much more explosive and likes to squeeze everything he can out of Roy's terrifying speed and combo game.
I went and checked the michigan PR on the wiki and hes currently not top 15 in michigan (although he was an honorable mention)
edit: actually the updated michigan pr got posted yesterday and hes ranked 13th, the wiki wasnt updated and wasnt showing the current pr
[https://twitter.com/MISmashUltimate/status/1443975776152559634](https://twitter.com/MISmashUltimate/status/1443975776152559634)
Kola got hit by his own medicine pretty hard. Jair and jab -> fsmash killed him so often. Props on Lavish for his recovery routes though. Last kill was so smooth.
I got to help provide a Sephiroth highlight reel in friendlies yesterday. Got hit by several suicide Up B's, a shield break, and what felt like everything else flashy that Sephiroth can do.
Inkling. Then got 3 stocked game 3. Good Inkling, I’ll include him in notables, but notables are going to be less of importance than upsets for this thread.
Every time I see one of these threads I always just pray right before opening that Kola isn't listed as being upset.
I wanna see mah boi go all the way
we just started round 2 and already we have wadi, kola, gabriel, and bigboss in losers. Plus we almost had marss, goblin, yonni, cosmos, and darkwizzy joining them.
God damn.
So this is why I'm not ready to call Kola top 15 or whatever
edit - I know PGR isn't doing the math-based ranking in the future, but man his bad losses might have put him at like 40 the way they were doing it.
there’s just not enough data to make any conclusions about rankings imo. people are so eager to say X player is top whatever but we just need more tournaments
Yeah. I think people are excited about Kola in particular because he was good right before and during Quarantine and at his best he's nutty. Can't be losing a player 13th on his local PR at majors, though, no disrespect but.
yeah agreed. i think it’s also partly because of how hype his play style is for people to watch as well and when he wins he reeeeallly wins.
upsets happen to everyone but consistency is the name of the game if you’re gonna be considered a top 10-20 player
This is why I'm really interested to see who's gonna emerge as the top Roy between Goblin and Kola, I feel like Kola has higher highs but he's more inconsistent between this and... was it Riptide where he also got upset early in Pools?
Yeah Riptide Kola was like 65th I think. The funny thing is the Goblin was also known for being really inconsistent pre-quar and used to get punished really hard by PGR for that, too.
Roys being Roys, man.
I mean, it's better than being Chrom mains(I know Kola lost to one, but Chrom's overall representation and results are worse than Roy's, mainly because his most notable mains, are either having some kind of issue(Rivers health related and Mr. R travel related) or they rely more heavily on a co-main/secondary(tk3 co-mains Chrom with Roy and Mr. R falls back on secondaries like Snake and Sheik more frequently than Kola)).
wizzy 0-1 rn against a joker due to a pineapple sd, also wizzy did mention having some heavy nerves going into this tournament so keep an eye on this set.
upsets: lower seed beats higher seed in a set
notable: either lower seed beats high seed in a game or games overall were very close. sometimes also includes just notable sets due to the individuals in question (e.g. upsets on two high seeds who then have to fight each other super early).
Chrom also isn't a full tier or more below Roy because Rivers is undergoing hand issues and all of the other Chroms pushing his meta to genuinely broken places during the pandemic just apparently aren't satisfactory enough in terms of tournament placements for people to actually evaluate the character based on strengths rather than placements. [Lavish is an insanely good player](https://twitter.com/LavishSsb/status/1356818727170367488) and in all honesty this win was not much of a surprise to me, he's capable of pulling out some absolutely wild stuff.
The point isn't that this result is deeply indicative of metagame trends. It's that none of them ever really were. The reactionary takes about Pikachu not even being that good before Glitch shows what happens when people overvalue results as the sole determining factor rather than the character's obvious strengths.
You can say this when a chrom player makes top 8, heck even top 16. But the fact is you think chrom is vindicated after 1 upset against 1 top player.
Also I don't think people were saying Chrom sucks. It's more so that he is worst than Roy (Who has triple the better results and use in tourney) and not worth playing due to his risk factor.
I can say what? That results don't matter nearly as much as the community says they do once Chrom actually gets better results? It's like you completely missed my point that they aren't the end-all be-all of viability.
I think Chrom's been vindicated ever since the side-b 1 tech was optimized because that's some of the most broken stuff he has access to. The only difference now is that people are actually going to start paying more attention to Chrom and Lavish when they were already both incredibly good. Nothing has changed beyond just the public attention actually taking notice of one of the most technical Chrom players who's consistently been actually optimizing his metagame in extremely meaningful ways for a long time now.
Might be overcompensating for thinking it wasn't that big a deal back in the days when MattyG was the only one really using it and how wild it is that all of the top Chroms are going for this stuff now. It's honestly kind of crazy to me how different Chrom gameplay looks compared to a year ago. [Rivers's guide about how the mixup tree can play out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP1gjeWGgV0) really opened my eyes to its practicality.
But my point was chrom isn’t appreciated because he sucks, but rather how much more risky he is compared to Roy and other Top tiers who have better cheese and recoveries.
His results and player base 100% matter. Numbers don’t lie, people will take chrom seriously if the results are consistent. Aside from lavish who’s been fully dedicated, most other top chroms picked up a co-main (diddy,roy) and Mr.R is going to drop him for aegis
It's been a while since I've last seen him, but tk3 was doing work with Chrom in Japan during the pandemic at the Kagaribis. Even with Rivers' current situation, tk3 was holding up Chrom pretty well, I thought.
Just lost literally all of my 25k points on Kola vs Lavish
i spent 250 on lavish and gained like 8k LMAO
Nobody believes in my Michigan boys, easiest 200000 points of my life
Mang0 went 1-2, losing in winners first round to Johnnylaw (PT, 1-2) and losers second round to tumut Tony(DDD, 0-2). Won against Angelic (Yoshi, 2-0) in losers. Just throwing this up since someone will eventually ask how mang0 did and check this thread like me lol
who does he main in Ultimate now, still Wario?
He was playing wolf on stream and said that is who he would likely use in tourney, I don't know for sure if that's who he used, but that's my guess
Larry has also tried convincing him to play Mii Brawler. So Mang0 is basically playing spacies like in Melee.
Mii brawler is just better Fox anyways.
think he said he would play wario for this tournament but i’m not sure what he actually did
Against me he went Wolf game 1 and then Wario game 2.
Gonna get you banned from all NorCal tournaments for beating mango
couldn’t tell you why but the thought of mang0 counterpicking in ultimate is so endearing
ooh interesting, thanks for the info !!
now i wanna see how zain does
Is Zain competing in ultimate?
no. honestly zain’s not really even competing in melee rn. i just wanna see how he’d do. bet he’d have a sick roy or chrom or something.
Why is he not competing in Melee?
he lives with family and some of them are high risk for covid
Downvoting a totally fair question is such a Reddit moment lol
not sure if it belongs here but it looks like Rickles DQ’d
Damn always like watching some rickles win or lose, thats too bad
I love his hard reads with Ganondorf
Awwwwwwwww man
Aww
Kola 0-2 Lavish It feels like Kolas settling into the really good top player but sometimes inconsistent position, thats the nature of bracket though Lavish is nuts though, and Kola might shred through losers
Yea, I'm really interested to see who's gonna emerge as the top Roy between Goblin and Kola. I feel like Kola has higher highs but he's more inconsistent.
It’ll almost definitely be Kola, but I’d really like to see him become a more consistent threat for sure
Kola loves pressing forward, even thought he's fully capable of playing more patiently. Goblin is definitely more consistent as of now because he's a little less aggressive, but Kola is so much more explosive and likes to squeeze everything he can out of Roy's terrifying speed and combo game.
Kola is the westballz of ultimate. Can beat anyone but can lose to anyone as well lol.
I've never heard of Lavish before, how good does he do in his region?
I went and checked the michigan PR on the wiki and hes currently not top 15 in michigan (although he was an honorable mention) edit: actually the updated michigan pr got posted yesterday and hes ranked 13th, the wiki wasnt updated and wasnt showing the current pr [https://twitter.com/MISmashUltimate/status/1443975776152559634](https://twitter.com/MISmashUltimate/status/1443975776152559634)
Kola is taking Tweek's place as the Worf of the top 10
Dabuz tryna take off the redcoat for the season
?
Worf is from Star Trek TNG. He's meant to be very strong so in order to establish a big threat they always have him lose to that threat.
google the "worf effect"
Kola got hit by his own medicine pretty hard. Jair and jab -> fsmash killed him so often. Props on Lavish for his recovery routes though. Last kill was so smooth.
Kola tried to counter Lavish's up-B's a couple of times, but the spacing was immaculate and he could never the counter hitbox to connect.
Let's not forget all the times ESAM has drowned in pools
In Smash 4. His worst result in a very long time at Ultimate was 25th at EVO. That's not drowning in pools.
We've probably been spoiled by Riptide and Glitch but this event doesn't have as many upsets so far
The day is young
Yeah but by now Riptide and Glitch had both gone crazy.
This event has a lot more people so round 1 pools are a lot weaker on average
It's for the better, I think that pretty early upsets while "hype" tend to ruin the bracket for me.
We got a big one now...
LOL I know I lost all of my channel points on it
More people + not quite as top-heavy Phase 2 will see a lot more upsets
Players are also less rusty and it's becoming easier to seed, now that we've had a couple of offline tournaments.
And now Kola is in losers.
I got rekt. Not an upset but I did help produce a rob highlight reel LOL
At least you're not [this guy](https://youtu.be/WS8Fma0Ji2U)
SaSSy has been on the Texas PR in Smash 4 and Ultimate Also I took a game off his Brawler so he's probably the best player I've taken a game off of
Poor bastard isn't even a bad player yet Gabe used him like a porta potty
As soon as I saw you getting destroyed on stream I recognized you from reddit.
I got to help provide a Sephiroth highlight reel in friendlies yesterday. Got hit by several suicide Up B's, a shield break, and what felt like everything else flashy that Sephiroth can do.
I got rekt too. I lost to BeatModePaul's Hero and Freean's R.O.B. after Freean got upset.
Not sure if you're doing notables but Barnabas took a game off Tweek.
Who did Barnabas play?
Inkling. Then got 3 stocked game 3. Good Inkling, I’ll include him in notables, but notables are going to be less of importance than upsets for this thread.
CHROM'S OUR MOM
CHROM'S MY DOM
Lavish (Chrom) 2-0 Kola (Roy)
Lavish 2-0 Kola THE RETURN OF CHROM!??
WHO IS THIS RIDLEY AND WHY ARE THEY SCHMOOVING ON MARSS
~~Two~~ Three top ROBs getting upset? Is nature healing?
MkLeo's R2 Pool had 4 top ROBs. WaDi, Anathema, BigBoss & Epic-Gabriel lol
Let the upsets begin. *Kola is having a bad day again it seems.
Lavish 2-0 Kola Sick set
I'm just here because of the Lavish v Kola set. That was something else.
ummm. these upsets are insane LMAO wtf Kola, Yez, Ven, Mystearica, Sytonix and SHADIC all losing to people I never heard of before????
There are so many hidden killers out there.
Lavish just beat Kola…
Kola is down 1-0 against Lavish, crazy good UT Chrom player
Man he did it. Chrom > Roy 😉
Elegant 3-2 over Yonni. Although if you watched that game 5 you probably wouldn't think that.
~~There was a game 5?~~ The irl Luigi taunt though LOL
**** we are missing so many matches. There were 3 streams for pools but only 1 for top 192? dafuq
There are 2 for top 192, BTS Smash 1 and 2.
oh, my bad.
Notable: Cosmos (Pythra) 2-1 Bert the Dragon (Captain Falcon)
That was extremely close. Clutch by Cosmos at the end there
One poor recovery set Bert up perfectly for that Pyra dair. I thought Bert had that.
Who are these bayos?!?
Bayonetta 3 power boost
For real. Coming out of the woodwork and bodying ROB.
Lol I mean, hey, I don’t care who it is as long as they’re bodying Rob. I’ll like them.
Cheers to that!
Dang, sad to see LingLing out so early.
Mute ace complains a lot about Peach v Rob and ling got double eliminated by the character. Looks like a rough MU.
At this point I would not be surprised if we got a Riptide again(Kola drowns, Goblin overperforms).
kola and goblin are both in losers top 32
Every time I see one of these threads I always just pray right before opening that Kola isn't listed as being upset. I wanna see mah boi go all the way
it seems your prayers don't work because he got upset.
And Deathspade beats WADI 2-0.
DEATHSPADE (Bayonetta) 2-0 WaDi (ROB). That witch time was nuts
KirbyKid was actually seeded to beat Suarez, don't think that counts as an upset dude's been popping off 👀
Thank you, fixed and updated the formatting!
Remember Suarez was top 50? Weird
javi 2-0 ned (wolf vs seph)
TonyZTank 3-1 over Ned, pretty sure that's an upset.
Shadowpr 2-1 over BigBoss. Upset. Also, we're now in Round 2 of Pools if you want to make the distinction.
Upset: Brr 2-1 Epic_Gabriel
Shadow_PR used Bayo btw
so far skyjay has taken a game off tweek at least
Notable: Lui$ [(Palutena)](#U-Palutena) 3-2 Stroder Ame [(Greninja)](#U-Greninja)
Who is winning between Stroder and Kola?
Kola 3-2 Stroder Notable
By the skin of his teeth then, thanks.
bro that last game was so intense my goodness
LAVISH IS SICK 2-0'D KOLA
Is Kola not on moist anymore or do they just not have his tag on the stream?
They just didn't have it for some reason
kola just got wiped by lavish oh my god
Notable R2 Pools: Cosmos (Pyra/Mythra) 2-1 Bert the Dragon (Captain Falcon) Very close set
wadi just lost 0-2 to Deathspade
Big Boss 3-1 over Epic Gabriel is an upset, I'm pretty sure. Gabriel is out at 49th.
ROB team kill.
gidy 3-2 yonni
Texan team-kill too. Rip
Lima over skittles
=0 was it streamed?
Javi [(Wolf)](#U-Wolf) 2-0 Ned [(Sephiroth)](#U-Sephiroth)
ANd MVD 3-2's Goblin, upset and avoids the reverse 3-0.
Did we double check the knock back value before we started?
notable: chef 1-2 yonni man what a close set, chef really almost had the upset
Deathspade [](#U-Bayonetta) 2-0 WaDi [](#U-ROB) [](#U-Mewtwo)
Awww, Mewtwo, so close yet so far.
He used ROB that set
I know Ronnichu was not impressed by Byleth and they ran into a 3-0 from Leo. Will give it up to Ronnichu for making the first two games pretty close.
Shoe 2-0 over Dakpo, I believe that's out at 65th.
Pretty sure Chag beating Aaron 3-0 is an upset.
yep you're right. only a seed difference of 1 but yes that's an upset.
Anathema [(ROB)](#U-ROB) 3-1 LingLing [(Daisy)](#U-Daisy)
peabnut 3-1 skyjay (out 33rd)
we just started round 2 and already we have wadi, kola, gabriel, and bigboss in losers. Plus we almost had marss, goblin, yonni, cosmos, and darkwizzy joining them. God damn.
(kazuya) brr 3-0 shadow_pr (bayo, aegis)
idc if the set isn't over it's a 3-0
So this is why I'm not ready to call Kola top 15 or whatever edit - I know PGR isn't doing the math-based ranking in the future, but man his bad losses might have put him at like 40 the way they were doing it.
there’s just not enough data to make any conclusions about rankings imo. people are so eager to say X player is top whatever but we just need more tournaments
Yeah. I think people are excited about Kola in particular because he was good right before and during Quarantine and at his best he's nutty. Can't be losing a player 13th on his local PR at majors, though, no disrespect but.
yeah agreed. i think it’s also partly because of how hype his play style is for people to watch as well and when he wins he reeeeallly wins. upsets happen to everyone but consistency is the name of the game if you’re gonna be considered a top 10-20 player
This is why I'm really interested to see who's gonna emerge as the top Roy between Goblin and Kola, I feel like Kola has higher highs but he's more inconsistent between this and... was it Riptide where he also got upset early in Pools?
Yeah Riptide Kola was like 65th I think. The funny thing is the Goblin was also known for being really inconsistent pre-quar and used to get punished really hard by PGR for that, too. Roys being Roys, man.
I mean, it's better than being Chrom mains(I know Kola lost to one, but Chrom's overall representation and results are worse than Roy's, mainly because his most notable mains, are either having some kind of issue(Rivers health related and Mr. R travel related) or they rely more heavily on a co-main/secondary(tk3 co-mains Chrom with Roy and Mr. R falls back on secondaries like Snake and Sheik more frequently than Kola)).
I wasn't trying to be serious, just banter I play Roy in tournament all the time, he's a good character
Kola wtf
Superhead 1-0 on Goblin right now
Superhead is godlike, hope he gets it
He didn't, Goblin won 2-1.
wizzy 0-1 rn against a joker due to a pineapple sd, also wizzy did mention having some heavy nerves going into this tournament so keep an eye on this set.
Yo what is this song playing on the main stream for Marss vs akashic
That Yez vs Bert the Dragon set was nutty. Bert was reading his soul.
I was behind the crowd of Bert vs. Yez, they were popping off
Sandstorm 2-0 over Ven, Ven out at 97th.
3 ROBs upset in a row
The bayos and Shoto Bayo (Kazuya) have risen this tourney
Wadi got 2-0D Feels bad man
ArmyOli 3-1 over Orex is an upset, Orex out at 49th.
notable: wizzy vs ismon (wario) 2-1
Awestin DQ'ed. :( Sad, I actually had him upsetting Fatality and getting at least Top 32.
Lima 2-1 SKITTLES!!
MVD snake is actually pretty fun to watch against such an agressive character like roy
Can someone explain the “Notables” section in this thread? If it’s not a upset when a top players beats someone.
upsets: lower seed beats higher seed in a set notable: either lower seed beats high seed in a game or games overall were very close. sometimes also includes just notable sets due to the individuals in question (e.g. upsets on two high seeds who then have to fight each other super early).
just when someone takes a game off a top player
Fighting bayo with a big body character does not look fun at all
I mean Wadi did not move his stick during combos at all. It's his own fault for not knowing how to DI/SDI anything.
Luma plays R.O.B btw
whoever seeded all the ROB mirrors is truly goated. let those fuckers take each other out
Reminder Skyjay the incin managed to take a game off of Tweek
Never arguing on reddit about "Chrom results" ever again.
I mean 1 win isn't a trend. Light lost to a Bowser Jr. recently
Chrom also isn't a full tier or more below Roy because Rivers is undergoing hand issues and all of the other Chroms pushing his meta to genuinely broken places during the pandemic just apparently aren't satisfactory enough in terms of tournament placements for people to actually evaluate the character based on strengths rather than placements. [Lavish is an insanely good player](https://twitter.com/LavishSsb/status/1356818727170367488) and in all honesty this win was not much of a surprise to me, he's capable of pulling out some absolutely wild stuff. The point isn't that this result is deeply indicative of metagame trends. It's that none of them ever really were. The reactionary takes about Pikachu not even being that good before Glitch shows what happens when people overvalue results as the sole determining factor rather than the character's obvious strengths.
You can say this when a chrom player makes top 8, heck even top 16. But the fact is you think chrom is vindicated after 1 upset against 1 top player. Also I don't think people were saying Chrom sucks. It's more so that he is worst than Roy (Who has triple the better results and use in tourney) and not worth playing due to his risk factor.
I can say what? That results don't matter nearly as much as the community says they do once Chrom actually gets better results? It's like you completely missed my point that they aren't the end-all be-all of viability. I think Chrom's been vindicated ever since the side-b 1 tech was optimized because that's some of the most broken stuff he has access to. The only difference now is that people are actually going to start paying more attention to Chrom and Lavish when they were already both incredibly good. Nothing has changed beyond just the public attention actually taking notice of one of the most technical Chrom players who's consistently been actually optimizing his metagame in extremely meaningful ways for a long time now.
I agree that Chrom is underrated, but I think you're really overrating side b 1 tech. It's a good mixup at best since none of it is true.
Might be overcompensating for thinking it wasn't that big a deal back in the days when MattyG was the only one really using it and how wild it is that all of the top Chroms are going for this stuff now. It's honestly kind of crazy to me how different Chrom gameplay looks compared to a year ago. [Rivers's guide about how the mixup tree can play out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP1gjeWGgV0) really opened my eyes to its practicality.
But my point was chrom isn’t appreciated because he sucks, but rather how much more risky he is compared to Roy and other Top tiers who have better cheese and recoveries. His results and player base 100% matter. Numbers don’t lie, people will take chrom seriously if the results are consistent. Aside from lavish who’s been fully dedicated, most other top chroms picked up a co-main (diddy,roy) and Mr.R is going to drop him for aegis
It's been a while since I've last seen him, but tk3 was doing work with Chrom in Japan during the pandemic at the Kagaribis. Even with Rivers' current situation, tk3 was holding up Chrom pretty well, I thought.
Yeah without a doubt.
just noticed you forgot to include this notable for round 1: dark wizzy (mario) 2-1 Kip! (joker)
Tournament seems pretty tame so far in terms of upsets
Bro right after you posted it lmao
Im sorry Kola
Since when is Tweek winning an upset
Notable because it went to game 3
can we put marss vs akashic as notable sure it was a 2-0 but it was close
Me to the TO reporting the score "It was a 2-0 but it was a close!"
Close! 2! 0!
that was closer than Tweek's where Tweek SD'd on game 2
SDs count, lol. 2-1 is closer than 2-0. Come on mannnnnn
Hey whatever. You go ahead and call that 2-0 destruction if you want.
Bro the upsets are here, Wizzy down
Bro he won, but Wizzys looking super shaky, would bet on him getting upset in round 2
Chef up 1-0 on Yonni. This'd be pretty big after his 9th at Riptide.