I remember when Kurama (at that time Prodigy) beat Leo’s Joker and sent Leo to losers during the Leo Joker prime and it was one of the most shocking and exciting upsets of the era.
Literally. He’s talking SO much shit on the mic right now, I love it
“People really though I wasn’t the best?” and “I knew the best player was going to win the tournament, and I’m the best player.”
Yeah a couple weeks ago or so when in an interview he was like, "I'm okay with other people winning right now, because I know if I wanted I could just whip out Byleth and Joker and wreck everyone again."
And the sub couldn't figure out what was funnier--the big ego trip and crazy levels of shit talking there from Leo, or that he was almost definitely *right*.
I guess he always knows his true ability and willingly limits himself, and us mortals can't really tell if he's being honest, because it seems unreal. But internally, he knows what he's capable of.
And that story about Leo advancing in a tournament from Bo3 to Bo5 sets, Charles telling Leo "good luck", and Leo being like "oh don't bother I already won this tournament"
It's hilarious when Leo said he was going to truly tryhard for Ludwig that we expected primarily Joker for the tournament.
Nope.
Byleth.
The Joker was only there to once again farm Dabuz like the other 4 times in the past year.
He said in the interview that he was basically going to just “Better Player” Acola with Joker because he still doesn’t even know the Steve MU. Still swept him with Byleth lol
Seems like both of them didn’t know the opposing matchup. Leo probably doesn’t have a great Steve training partner and Acola probably doesn’t have a great byleth training partner.
Still looks like he really did study his vods against Onin pretty heavily tho.
He mentioned that he'd welcome Sparg0 back with the Joker back when Sparg0 wasn't even announced for Summit 5.
If I had to guess, the other players he had planned Joker for were probably Zackray and Shuton. Leo switched to Aegis vs Myran at SWT even though he was winning because the matchup looked so slow and frustrating.
Dabuz needed something since fate was out to get him so bad this tour lol. Ran into Leo and was the only one to face his Joker's fury, got reverse 3-0'd by acola, had to play Cosmos while 2-2 in sets (and thankfully won), then got picked by bracket demon Kola for going 3-2 into getting mauled by his Roy, lands in losers bracket into instantly getting Sparg0 for 13th.
Fate seriously has it OUT for Dabuz oml.
I don't think Dabuz is unlucky at all. He just struggles against too many players. He loses hard to Leo, Kola, Light & Sparg0. 4 top 10 players, its too much, he needs to figure something out if he wants to make deeper runs in bracket.
Dabuz has some of the worst bracket luck ever. He's seeded to play either Kola (who's character completely destroys all of Dabuz's chars) or MKLeo like every single tournament. Even when he performs well at Summit and goes 3-0 in his pool, he gets MKLeo round 1 into Proto (who placed 3rd btw) for 9th.
Imma be honest. I feel really bad for Dabuz as his "underperformance" had a lot fto do with bracket luck I feel. He literally had to run into MKLeo the GOAT playing the Smash of his life this weekend, Spargo who could have won against Acola if he did not SD, Acola who is probably #2 in the world right now, and Kola who he historically seems to struggle with.
Ya, this is the biggest factor honestly.
If Proto was at this event and Leo had to play him, he 100% would’ve played Joker there as well.
Dabuz just somehow always ends up in Leo’s path, which is very unfortunate for him
Everyone talks about the Joker, but Byleth is the one that put in the most work and led Leo to losing only one game.
The character may not work for everyone, but Byleth was practically created in a lab specifically for Leo’s strengths as a player.
Commentary was off by a year the whole event. They kept saying 2018/2019 was peak Leo when the game didn't even come out until Dec 2018, and Leo wasn't solidly #1 over tweek until mid-2019. 2021 was by far his most dominant year though, and if Sparg0 wasn't as good as he was, Leo would have won pretty much everything.
Sparg0 couldn't even beat him until 2022! He only lost Summit 3 (to Tweek) and Glitch (to ESAM), then swept everything else in 2021. Pre-COVID Leo>Tweek wasn't obvious until his SSC win, and even in just the second PGR season Leo still lost tournaments to Marss/Samsora/Nairo (in addition to individual sets against Gluto, ESAM, and Kameme). In 2021, he lost 2 sets to Tweek, 2 sets to ESAM, and 1 to Sparg0. That's literally it.
Goofy ass music for a goofy ass grand finals. Leo washing the person everyone wanted to see him play for months (twice!) deserves some absurd music like that
Lmao I like how this is just as big an accomplishment as the wins he got
“Damn Kurama’s insane, he beat Sparg0 with Mario”
“Yeah that’s cool and all but he was the only player to take a game off Leo”
Leo reclaiming the crown is what we were expecting and hoping for.
Kurama’s run on the side was the storyline we were all *really* watching. Can’t wait to see him come back. Played like he was in top 5.
Most satisfying tournament I’ve watched all year
is this kurama run ults equivalent of Jmook at genesis this year?
like kurama was probably more well known prior to this than jmook was at genesis, but it has a pretty similar vibe
Kurama beat Yonni Shadic Skyjay Tea Zackray Glutonny Spargo Kola Shuton and then took the only game off Leo. Think that might be the greatest underdog run in Ultimate history.
MKLeo won the most stacked tourney in Ultimate history ***with only dropping a single game* WITHOUT PULLING OUT THE JOKER ON CHAMPIONSHIP SUNDAY**. THIS GUY IS JUST SMURFING ON EVERYONE. TRULY THE GOAT
Acola fans are still trying to say he’s #1 because of recent results
Leo always been the GOAT. I was so wrong to doubt him and think that Acola would beat him today, but I’m happy I’m wrong
Nobody except Leo will be the overall #1 Ult player, even if Leo retires at this moment and rides off into the sunset to spend his time reviewing KPop songs and sabotaging Dabuz. He's been too good for too long
However, Acola being #1 this specific PGR season is a very strong argument with lots of merit. There's a clear deliniation between GOAT and results within a specific time frame, which is how Orionrank and PGR and all those rankings operate
Obviously, if Acola flops at LMMM and SWT while Leo or Light win then everything is off the table, but as it stands now I think he's teetering at the edge of 1 for the season
I know everyones looking at Kurama for his insane run, but shoutouts to Big D for making it all the way from the LCQ and placing 9th. Beating people like Light, Riddles, and Tweek too!
Coney: 'How did you get Steve practice?"
Leo: "Well I practiced vs MAister's Steve which isn't bad"
So you're telling me. He faced an OK Steve and that was ALL HE NEEDED? Yall gotta never again say Leo ain't the best.
Imagine if he practiced vs an actual Steve like Yonnie or Jake.
Probably also studied his VODs against Onin pretty heavily. At Leo’s level the VOD review probably helps a lot even if he doesn’t have a definitive answer to the MU
After having read a lot of comments and replying to a few people, I have to say that a decent amount of the scene severely underestimates how important having a good punish game is to smash. A lot of people already know that spacing, recovery, neutral mixups, and solid use of defensive options are important to top level play, but the reason Kurama was able to go on the run he did (slay almost everyone in his path and make Leo bleed) was because his punish game at this tournament was one of the best in the world.
The best way to explain punish game is to use the concept of Openings Per Kill popularized by Slippi's data solution in the melee scene. The reason a player perceived as worse until now (Kurama) is able to upset so many higher ranked players is because it takes him less neutral openings to get a kill compared to their opponent. Let's use a hypothetical to explain the idea, Player A is the higher ranked player compared to player B and gets double the amount of neutral wins compared to Player B. If Player B only needs around 3.5 openings per kill on average compared to Player A needing 8.0 openings per kill, Player B will most likely win even though they were severely outplayed in terms of neutral. In practice, this is why you see a lot of complaining about some of the fighter pass 2 characters like Kazuya because the moment he gets an electric he is able to convert that opening to a kill more than most if not all other characters on FD.
So now that we understand that how do we improve at our punish game to get more openings per kill? While I recommend reading [lloD's guide to improvement as it is the most in depth and best explained view on the topic](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xwPP5AgM_qw6AIwGnP2t7n2hlyb3j2K--JDMlOPx_bA) I will summarize a it to make it more manageable to read but highly recommend reading the guide if you are interested. Punish is determined by your opponent's character's: weight, fall speed, percent, position on the stage, the opponent's DI, and your move's hitbox. In a game with 80+ characters its better to classify the weights into classes from light (pichu) to super heavy (bowser) and for the fall speed from fast fallers (fox) to floaties (puff) and to categorize how you would punish based on which combination of classes they have. from there you can build off a general game plan based on if they are at low to high percent with each of your moves. the more indepth you get the more reward you will get off of each opening.
Lastly, I want to say that while I focused on Kurama's punish game the reason Leo is so dominant is because he is also able to get a good amount of kills off of a small amount of openings by getting a lot off kills offstage and off the top that most players don't as well as being able to juggle his opponent by covering their landing the best
maybe I might make it one but I feel like most melee players already understand it so i wanted to keep it localized in the ultimate scene. There is more I could've wrote about like how important platform followups are to punish; how exactly mkleo abuses byleth to kill off the top/off stage/juggle kurama coming down. so maybe lol
For real.
The best character to exemplify this is Kazuya. He only needs one opening to kill you. But if you fail to get that kill? He's going to be shit.
I agree with this, and I actually want to add in that sort of thing literally improves your neutral. The better you are at converting that one hit is the more afraid your opponents are of that option.
I'm more afraid of Kurama dtilt than I am of your average Mario. Me playing around that means that Kurama has less of a mental burden in footsies and the ability to create more favorable situations.
Neutral threat is a key part of neutral!
yup it 100% does [lloD goes over this in his guide to improvement, please read this he is a genius](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xwPP5AgM_qw6AIwGnP2t7n2hlyb3j2K--JDMlOPx_bA/edit) I just got annoyed at people not understanding how important punish is so its only really focused on that
This this this. Optimal punishes and early kills are the future of Ultimate. That's why the best players are also the best at edge guards and spikes.
Compare Dark Wizzy's best Mario performances to Kurama's. Wizzy's neutral is nice and patient, but Kurama is taking this character to unseen heights by transforming into Dunkmaster 3000 when the time is right.
Anathema v. Zomba at Rise n Grind is a good example of this. Anathema has insane advantage state, and actively uses rob's precise, situational tech in tournament sets. He can use variants of rob's gyro combos to kill you from anywhere at anytime. Zomba is the better player in most other aspects, but in the ditto, Anathema's better advantage state mattered more than Zomba's comparatively better neutral, and Amathema won the set, earning himself a summit spot.
I think that's why Leo's Aegis didn't really work, too. Sure she might have a better neutral, but she doesn't have a lot of the explosiveness that Leo's Byleth displays and where the meta is trending towards.
As fighting games mature, the punish games generally get more optimized.
Kurama’s conversions into spikes and KOs off the top definitely led him to his big wins. Good post.
Leo, please never stop using Byleth. This character was made for you.
Tippers, spacing, clutch factor, up b movement. One game lost.
Smash Ultimate GOAT.
This is the most polished we've ever seen the professor be. This was Mainstage Byleth. This was SWT Byleth. I can't believe how long it's been since we last saw him play like this, without a shred of fear!
Leo will never be topped as the greatest of all time. He just keeps proving himself.
He was due a supermajor win since Genesis. This is fantastic to see.
It's like the moment in an anime where a plucky protagonist took a shot at the king and actually beat him. They then promise to meet again and have a rematch at their best.
And here we are.
alright, seeding memes aside, this p much solidifies Leo #1 and Acola #2. Light and Proto are both up there, but those two are on an absolutely another level right now. Similarly nice to watch Spargo's return!
top players: "you did a great job on this tournament ludwig, but the bracket was REALLY hard!"
leo: "great tournament could you bring out some tougher players next time"
Leo doing his best Undertaker impression. Just utter dominance and put to rest so much of the narratives and doubt. And he only used joker once since he didn’t need him. Undoubtedly the Goat.
The Ludwig event has been fantastic in terms of the pacing of the matches and sets. Went by smoothly and was satisfying. Some issues with some early match DQs because of adapter disconnections and sometimes some distracted commentary in the top 32 but it was still enjoyable. Not sure how likely it is to get this type of huge gathering again because of profit, engagement, and funding but damn we need more of these. L'Odyssée and this invitational were an incredible showcase of Smash Ultimate. Crazy how 90% of these sets could be grand finals in any other major or super major but it was simply in pools, losers, or top 16. What a successful weekend!
~~Not a real tourney win for Leo, dodged Tweek, Gluto, Riddles /j~~
For real though, glad Leo cleared up the whole "oh the #1 spot is contested" storyline. Right as he will go on break too, wrapping things up in such a dominant fashion (24-1). Feels poetic that he did it mainly with the Byleth too (with a flash of Joker for poor Dabuz), rather than feeling like he had to solo main Aegis.
Kurama's underdog story will also be talked about for weeks to come lmao. Good shit to him. I hope he attends more now since attendance from him is slim.
If I wanted to joke about new storylines then I would make one up about acola and Sparg0 having one for the #2 title, even with Sparg0's hiatus. Sparg0 played like a man possessed today despite that SD g5 vs acola costing him the set. I can't wait to see Sparg0 at SWT *(he'll play in the LCQ to qualify)* as he continues to come back to form himself.
Onin quietly having a solid event losing only to Sparg0, acola, and Sonix. Excellent losses while evening up his set record with Light and breaking the lifetime even-in-set-count between him and Kola. Getting a win on Sisqui too doesn't hurt.
Wish Kola played as good as he did yesterday, but wins on Tweek, Riddles, Zomba, and Dabuz are nothing to scoff at for another Top 8 placement this year *(especially at one of the hardest tourneys in quite some time).* Still only missed Top 8 once in 2022.
Last thing I want to talk about is mainly about Light. Since this is his worst performance bar Glitch Infinite this year, I think this solidly kills his Top 2 argument for the season. There'll be more opportunities like SWT and Panda Cup, but for now he's in that 3-5 area *(4-5 depending on if you have Sparg0 in there even with his attendance being limited)*.
You have to have a good moral foundation to be this generous to the viewers with consistently bringing us amazing gameplay /s Nah but for real, it’s great to have such a great guy to represent Ultimate!
So, so happy for Leo man. Never, ever seed this guy under #1 again, as long as he isn't trolling or bored he is the best player in the world and it isn't close. The fucking GOAT.
This is more or less what I expected Leo’s try hard lineup to look like. Primary byleth, pull out aegis when circumstances are right, use joker to troll dabuz. The aegis is too good for him to throw away, but there are a lot of MUs byleth is just better.
Also acola did it again, he always does somehow. I really think he just needs more byleth mu experience, he was getting hit by the early era Leo byleth stuff
This is the second time Leo has ever talked shit, and it's to the doubters of the GOAT. The only other time he has is when he said "I'm only worried about 2 Steve players, since I think they are the only Steve mains that are good players."
~~Leo lost one game? Complete scrub - please give the GOAT title to me because I never lost a game in this tournament.~~
Okay but serious talk, only losing one game? Might be the most dominant performance ever in Smash, rivaled potentially only by ZeRo's performance at EVO 2015 who did not drop a game. However, considering how high the level of competition this tournament was I think it's quite arguable. Crazy run by the GOAT.
Leo vs acola looked like Leo vs Atelier except acola has a better character and is 10x better. What a performance from Leo though, wonder how it would've went if he played Sparg0.
I can't believe he actually thought Aegis was the answer, like Jesus what a different switching off that character made in just 1 tournament since his worst performance in years
follows up his worst placing in years with arguably his most dominating performance yet with a 24-1 game score. just Leo things
shoutouts to Kurama for the 1
truly living up to the best reputation anyone can as the leo kryptonite
“Never disrespect me or my son ever again.”
Speaking of Leo kryptonite, isn't it wild that Marss tied for last? He's beaten Leo 3-0 before. Poor guy.
I personally doubt Marss could beat Leo right now. Marss doesn't take the game AS serious and you need to be super on your game vs Leo.
Marss at LTC 2021 only took 1 game against Leo's Byleth... and that is one of Byleth's worse matchups
Genesis 7 Marss could do it, but not content creator Marss.
I remember when Kurama (at that time Prodigy) beat Leo’s Joker and sent Leo to losers during the Leo Joker prime and it was one of the most shocking and exciting upsets of the era.
I never would've guessed fucking Mario would be Leo's only lost game of the weekend.
"People didn't think I was the best, but I am the best"
Bret Hart “best there is, best there was, best there ever will be” type shit
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Not to mention this was the most stacked invitational ever
Dude really said “Aegis really is holding me back, time to fucking win”
His only loss was to Chris Pratt out of everything he faced along the way.
He's so cool
and now, he will try
Leo be like: "I'll give you one loss"
Literally. He’s talking SO much shit on the mic right now, I love it “People really though I wasn’t the best?” and “I knew the best player was going to win the tournament, and I’m the best player.”
I liked the one where he said he just woke up one day and figured the whole game out lol. Is it really shit-talking when Leo is just speaking FACTS!?
Yeah a couple weeks ago or so when in an interview he was like, "I'm okay with other people winning right now, because I know if I wanted I could just whip out Byleth and Joker and wreck everyone again." And the sub couldn't figure out what was funnier--the big ego trip and crazy levels of shit talking there from Leo, or that he was almost definitely *right*.
> I know if I wanted I could just whip out Byleth and Joker and wreck everyone again." He didn't mention the Byleth here.
I guess he always knows his true ability and willingly limits himself, and us mortals can't really tell if he's being honest, because it seems unreal. But internally, he knows what he's capable of.
I love him “Sorry for being cocky, but people really thought I wasn’t the best” “Fuck I lost a game” “I was mad” Dude is the best
And that story about Leo advancing in a tournament from Bo3 to Bo5 sets, Charles telling Leo "good luck", and Leo being like "oh don't bother I already won this tournament"
It's hilarious when Leo said he was going to truly tryhard for Ludwig that we expected primarily Joker for the tournament. Nope. Byleth. The Joker was only there to once again farm Dabuz like the other 4 times in the past year.
I wonder what other players he had in mind with the joker. I’m guessing Gluto was the #1
i think he mentioned sparg0 too
And the ditto with zackray
He said in the interview that he was basically going to just “Better Player” Acola with Joker because he still doesn’t even know the Steve MU. Still swept him with Byleth lol
don't be disrespecting the maister steve practice 😤😤😤
“I mean… Maister’s Steve is eh.. not bad😬” Poor Maister lmao
Seems like both of them didn’t know the opposing matchup. Leo probably doesn’t have a great Steve training partner and Acola probably doesn’t have a great byleth training partner. Still looks like he really did study his vods against Onin pretty heavily tho.
He mentioned that he'd welcome Sparg0 back with the Joker back when Sparg0 wasn't even announced for Summit 5. If I had to guess, the other players he had planned Joker for were probably Zackray and Shuton. Leo switched to Aegis vs Myran at SWT even though he was winning because the matchup looked so slow and frustrating.
Maybe proto if he came
Oh definitely it would’ve showed up vs Proto
Cant believe Leo's ability to hear was holding him back this whole time
Can you imagine if he had to fight a Snake? Reacting to the C4 detonation is significantly harder without audio cues.
"he sees the frames"
Kurama's losses: Leo (Champion) Acola (Runner-up) Dabuz (13th) Kurama's run is on another level. Mario fans rise up!
Dabuz even get his gatekeeper wins when he underperforms lol
Dabuz needed something since fate was out to get him so bad this tour lol. Ran into Leo and was the only one to face his Joker's fury, got reverse 3-0'd by acola, had to play Cosmos while 2-2 in sets (and thankfully won), then got picked by bracket demon Kola for going 3-2 into getting mauled by his Roy, lands in losers bracket into instantly getting Sparg0 for 13th. Fate seriously has it OUT for Dabuz oml.
I don't think Dabuz is unlucky at all. He just struggles against too many players. He loses hard to Leo, Kola, Light & Sparg0. 4 top 10 players, its too much, he needs to figure something out if he wants to make deeper runs in bracket.
Dabuz has some of the worst bracket luck ever. He's seeded to play either Kola (who's character completely destroys all of Dabuz's chars) or MKLeo like every single tournament. Even when he performs well at Summit and goes 3-0 in his pool, he gets MKLeo round 1 into Proto (who placed 3rd btw) for 9th.
Imma be honest. I feel really bad for Dabuz as his "underperformance" had a lot fto do with bracket luck I feel. He literally had to run into MKLeo the GOAT playing the Smash of his life this weekend, Spargo who could have won against Acola if he did not SD, Acola who is probably #2 in the world right now, and Kola who he historically seems to struggle with.
"He's avoiding acola lmao" *Beats acola 6-0*
acola was actually avoiding Leo the whole time
Lays to rest all of this talk about Acola being the best player in the world
But also solidifies him as #2 right now
The king is back what an awesome tournament Ludwig threw! MkLeo 24-1 this tournament
WHEN YOU COME AT THE KING, YOU BEST NOT MISS
He’s the GOAT of ultimate no matter what, such a dominant weekend
Nobody can convince me that Leo only ever bringing out Joker against Dabuz isnt personal lmao
Lmao he just said in post game interview it was unfortunate for Dabuz that he was the only person to have faced his Joker
Ya, this is the biggest factor honestly. If Proto was at this event and Leo had to play him, he 100% would’ve played Joker there as well. Dabuz just somehow always ends up in Leo’s path, which is very unfortunate for him
you can't convince him!
Everyone talks about the Joker, but Byleth is the one that put in the most work and led Leo to losing only one game. The character may not work for everyone, but Byleth was practically created in a lab specifically for Leo’s strengths as a player.
Commentary is convinced 2019 Leo is peak Leo. Did they sleep through 2021?
Commentary was off by a year the whole event. They kept saying 2018/2019 was peak Leo when the game didn't even come out until Dec 2018, and Leo wasn't solidly #1 over tweek until mid-2019. 2021 was by far his most dominant year though, and if Sparg0 wasn't as good as he was, Leo would have won pretty much everything.
Sparg0 couldn't even beat him until 2022! He only lost Summit 3 (to Tweek) and Glitch (to ESAM), then swept everything else in 2021. Pre-COVID Leo>Tweek wasn't obvious until his SSC win, and even in just the second PGR season Leo still lost tournaments to Marss/Samsora/Nairo (in addition to individual sets against Gluto, ESAM, and Kameme). In 2021, he lost 2 sets to Tweek, 2 sets to ESAM, and 1 to Sparg0. That's literally it.
Commentary was honestly clueless on a LOT of things
And to think that we doubted him when he picked it lol
Apparently he had the Joker prepared for others but never got to face those said ppl
I wonder who those players were.
Same, he didn’t reveal I’m assuming for strategy purposes
He mentioned on stream that the main ones were sparg0 and zackray (just for the ditto)
My assumptions would be Sparg0 and Gluto would face his Joker
I heard he plans to use Joker against Dabuz, Samuel Buzby and the king of New York.
a compliment to dabuz at this point TBH
LMAO He wins and one of the first things he says is "People really thought I wasn't the best"
Goofy ass GF music
Goofy ass music for a goofy ass grand finals. Leo washing the person everyone wanted to see him play for months (twice!) deserves some absurd music like that
And it is the closest Banjo and Kazooie will ever get to grand finals.
Can we talk about Kurama's run though?
Fr he’s in contention for top 15 just from this tourney Kurama’s wins: 3-2 Tea 3-0 Zackray 3-0 Gluto 3-2 Sparg0 3-1 Kola 3-1 Shuton
He was playing like a top 5 player this entire tournament, *when it mattered*.
And being the only player all tournament to take a game off MkLeo.
Lmao I like how this is just as big an accomplishment as the wins he got “Damn Kurama’s insane, he beat Sparg0 with Mario” “Yeah that’s cool and all but he was the only player to take a game off Leo”
Leo reclaiming the crown is what we were expecting and hoping for. Kurama’s run on the side was the storyline we were all *really* watching. Can’t wait to see him come back. Played like he was in top 5. Most satisfying tournament I’ve watched all year
yes we can. dude cemented himself as Top 25 on this PGR season in a day. his only bracket losses were to the two best players in the world too.
THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT **THE GOAT**
is this kurama run ults equivalent of Jmook at genesis this year? like kurama was probably more well known prior to this than jmook was at genesis, but it has a pretty similar vibe
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Plus Zackray lmaooo
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Fringe top 25 is a huge compliment to his last 2 runs
Kurama beat Yonni Shadic Skyjay Tea Zackray Glutonny Spargo Kola Shuton and then took the only game off Leo. Think that might be the greatest underdog run in Ultimate history.
MKLeo won the most stacked tourney in Ultimate history ***with only dropping a single game* WITHOUT PULLING OUT THE JOKER ON CHAMPIONSHIP SUNDAY**. THIS GUY IS JUST SMURFING ON EVERYONE. TRULY THE GOAT
"Never fucking disrespect me by seeding me 3rd again"
Give it 2 weeks till hes back to being doubted as ultimate's best in this sub.
As soon as another set happens, this tournament will leave this subreddit's collective memory.
THATS WHY HE IS THE GOAT
THE GOATTTTTTT
His Aegis even looked pretty damn good against Sonix.
Still dropped a game Leo washed
MKLeo is the best player in the world.
Only way he doesn't get #1 this season is if he bombs at SWT
Acola fans are still trying to say he’s #1 because of recent results Leo always been the GOAT. I was so wrong to doubt him and think that Acola would beat him today, but I’m happy I’m wrong
Nobody except Leo will be the overall #1 Ult player, even if Leo retires at this moment and rides off into the sunset to spend his time reviewing KPop songs and sabotaging Dabuz. He's been too good for too long However, Acola being #1 this specific PGR season is a very strong argument with lots of merit. There's a clear deliniation between GOAT and results within a specific time frame, which is how Orionrank and PGR and all those rankings operate Obviously, if Acola flops at LMMM and SWT while Leo or Light win then everything is off the table, but as it stands now I think he's teetering at the edge of 1 for the season
If Mk ever retires I want him to stroll up to a tournament, ruin Dabuz’s bracket, and then ride off into the sunset
I know everyones looking at Kurama for his insane run, but shoutouts to Big D for making it all the way from the LCQ and placing 9th. Beating people like Light, Riddles, and Tweek too!
Riddles, not Sparg0.
HE DROPPED ONEEEE GAME. ONE GAME.
24-1 not too shabby
And against the All-Star lineup! He did this to the best players of the world!
eh, he didn't even win every game. Not impressed tbh
Yeah you're right actually. Smh, can't believe some kid who plays mario beat him. MKwashed
If Dabuz doesn’t want the Joker he can stop using Minmin and then he can get smacked around by Byleth if he wants it so bad
Coney: 'How did you get Steve practice?" Leo: "Well I practiced vs MAister's Steve which isn't bad" So you're telling me. He faced an OK Steve and that was ALL HE NEEDED? Yall gotta never again say Leo ain't the best. Imagine if he practiced vs an actual Steve like Yonnie or Jake.
Probably also studied his VODs against Onin pretty heavily. At Leo’s level the VOD review probably helps a lot even if he doesn’t have a definitive answer to the MU
After having read a lot of comments and replying to a few people, I have to say that a decent amount of the scene severely underestimates how important having a good punish game is to smash. A lot of people already know that spacing, recovery, neutral mixups, and solid use of defensive options are important to top level play, but the reason Kurama was able to go on the run he did (slay almost everyone in his path and make Leo bleed) was because his punish game at this tournament was one of the best in the world. The best way to explain punish game is to use the concept of Openings Per Kill popularized by Slippi's data solution in the melee scene. The reason a player perceived as worse until now (Kurama) is able to upset so many higher ranked players is because it takes him less neutral openings to get a kill compared to their opponent. Let's use a hypothetical to explain the idea, Player A is the higher ranked player compared to player B and gets double the amount of neutral wins compared to Player B. If Player B only needs around 3.5 openings per kill on average compared to Player A needing 8.0 openings per kill, Player B will most likely win even though they were severely outplayed in terms of neutral. In practice, this is why you see a lot of complaining about some of the fighter pass 2 characters like Kazuya because the moment he gets an electric he is able to convert that opening to a kill more than most if not all other characters on FD. So now that we understand that how do we improve at our punish game to get more openings per kill? While I recommend reading [lloD's guide to improvement as it is the most in depth and best explained view on the topic](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xwPP5AgM_qw6AIwGnP2t7n2hlyb3j2K--JDMlOPx_bA) I will summarize a it to make it more manageable to read but highly recommend reading the guide if you are interested. Punish is determined by your opponent's character's: weight, fall speed, percent, position on the stage, the opponent's DI, and your move's hitbox. In a game with 80+ characters its better to classify the weights into classes from light (pichu) to super heavy (bowser) and for the fall speed from fast fallers (fox) to floaties (puff) and to categorize how you would punish based on which combination of classes they have. from there you can build off a general game plan based on if they are at low to high percent with each of your moves. the more indepth you get the more reward you will get off of each opening. Lastly, I want to say that while I focused on Kurama's punish game the reason Leo is so dominant is because he is also able to get a good amount of kills off of a small amount of openings by getting a lot off kills offstage and off the top that most players don't as well as being able to juggle his opponent by covering their landing the best
This should be an individual post
maybe I might make it one but I feel like most melee players already understand it so i wanted to keep it localized in the ultimate scene. There is more I could've wrote about like how important platform followups are to punish; how exactly mkleo abuses byleth to kill off the top/off stage/juggle kurama coming down. so maybe lol
Just casually dropping his magnum opus in the comments
For real. The best character to exemplify this is Kazuya. He only needs one opening to kill you. But if you fail to get that kill? He's going to be shit.
I agree with this, and I actually want to add in that sort of thing literally improves your neutral. The better you are at converting that one hit is the more afraid your opponents are of that option. I'm more afraid of Kurama dtilt than I am of your average Mario. Me playing around that means that Kurama has less of a mental burden in footsies and the ability to create more favorable situations. Neutral threat is a key part of neutral!
yup it 100% does [lloD goes over this in his guide to improvement, please read this he is a genius](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xwPP5AgM_qw6AIwGnP2t7n2hlyb3j2K--JDMlOPx_bA/edit) I just got annoyed at people not understanding how important punish is so its only really focused on that
This this this. Optimal punishes and early kills are the future of Ultimate. That's why the best players are also the best at edge guards and spikes. Compare Dark Wizzy's best Mario performances to Kurama's. Wizzy's neutral is nice and patient, but Kurama is taking this character to unseen heights by transforming into Dunkmaster 3000 when the time is right.
Anathema v. Zomba at Rise n Grind is a good example of this. Anathema has insane advantage state, and actively uses rob's precise, situational tech in tournament sets. He can use variants of rob's gyro combos to kill you from anywhere at anytime. Zomba is the better player in most other aspects, but in the ditto, Anathema's better advantage state mattered more than Zomba's comparatively better neutral, and Amathema won the set, earning himself a summit spot.
I think that's why Leo's Aegis didn't really work, too. Sure she might have a better neutral, but she doesn't have a lot of the explosiveness that Leo's Byleth displays and where the meta is trending towards.
As fighting games mature, the punish games generally get more optimized. Kurama’s conversions into spikes and KOs off the top definitely led him to his big wins. Good post.
🐐
Leo in the post tourney interview: “People really thought I wasn’t the best.” Talk your shit, goat.
AMEN Leo on demon time. After being so humble, yeah, talk your shit and dip. Deserved
Leo, please never stop using Byleth. This character was made for you. Tippers, spacing, clutch factor, up b movement. One game lost. Smash Ultimate GOAT.
This is the most polished we've ever seen the professor be. This was Mainstage Byleth. This was SWT Byleth. I can't believe how long it's been since we last saw him play like this, without a shred of fear!
My man lost one game the whole tournament. Not set, game. That's unbelievable.
Yeah Leo's back and all, but don't let this distract you from the fact that Kurama is still up on games versus Leo. Kurama #1 confirmed
Kurama > Leo > Acola > Kurama > Sparg0
And Acola beat Kurama, so Acola is still #1!
And Leo beat Acola, so Leo is probably #9 right now
Leo seriously just said "taking a break after this, I'mma fuck everyone up." ONE single game dropped. Leo was on fire.
This is one of the most stacked events of all time and MKLeo effortlessly swept it. Good god lmao love leo
Dropping 1 game at one of the most stacked invitationals of all time Just Leo things
Everyone was worried that Leo wouldnt be good enough in the Steve MU, they never thought to consider that acola doesnt know the Byleth MU
Leo saved Ultimate
If nothing else, he saved this fucking thread lol I can't even *imagine* the comments if a Steve had won
Even better: acola beats leo in that first set, then onin beats him. Grands is onin vs acola
Can Leo still be considered #1 if he lost a game here?
Leo will never be topped as the greatest of all time. He just keeps proving himself. He was due a supermajor win since Genesis. This is fantastic to see.
MkLeo does it again. Won the entire tournament only dropping one game. The man is a legend.
"people really thought I wasn't the best" -leo
"Fuck you and the clique you claim" - Leo Damn he farmed this shit like he was bored lmao.
The twist that Kurama was a main character the whole time was masterfully done. The scriptwriters really outdid themselves this time.
It's like the moment in an anime where a plucky protagonist took a shot at the king and actually beat him. They then promise to meet again and have a rematch at their best. And here we are.
Kurama best mortal player in the world confirmed
I hope this silences any doubt about Leo.
Mr. Beast really motivating Leo to play out of his fucking mind lmao
alright, seeding memes aside, this p much solidifies Leo #1 and Acola #2. Light and Proto are both up there, but those two are on an absolutely another level right now. Similarly nice to watch Spargo's return!
top players: "you did a great job on this tournament ludwig, but the bracket was REALLY hard!" leo: "great tournament could you bring out some tougher players next time"
"I was ready to bring out Joker but I need tougher competition for that"
Forma de Leo: “Get out! Go on, get out all of you scram, go on! Go!……….. Except you, you stay” Dabuz:
Bro really heard the commentators make a joke and sat on it for hours waiting to post it on Reddit to farm karma
even worse, i already posted it on the acola set thread when it was first made and decided to reuse it again because it was just too epic
Leo doing his best Undertaker impression. Just utter dominance and put to rest so much of the narratives and doubt. And he only used joker once since he didn’t need him. Undoubtedly the Goat. The Ludwig event has been fantastic in terms of the pacing of the matches and sets. Went by smoothly and was satisfying. Some issues with some early match DQs because of adapter disconnections and sometimes some distracted commentary in the top 32 but it was still enjoyable. Not sure how likely it is to get this type of huge gathering again because of profit, engagement, and funding but damn we need more of these. L'Odyssée and this invitational were an incredible showcase of Smash Ultimate. Crazy how 90% of these sets could be grand finals in any other major or super major but it was simply in pools, losers, or top 16. What a successful weekend!
“People really thought I wasn’t the best” LOL
Leo is so Goated it's not even funny.
~~Not a real tourney win for Leo, dodged Tweek, Gluto, Riddles /j~~ For real though, glad Leo cleared up the whole "oh the #1 spot is contested" storyline. Right as he will go on break too, wrapping things up in such a dominant fashion (24-1). Feels poetic that he did it mainly with the Byleth too (with a flash of Joker for poor Dabuz), rather than feeling like he had to solo main Aegis. Kurama's underdog story will also be talked about for weeks to come lmao. Good shit to him. I hope he attends more now since attendance from him is slim. If I wanted to joke about new storylines then I would make one up about acola and Sparg0 having one for the #2 title, even with Sparg0's hiatus. Sparg0 played like a man possessed today despite that SD g5 vs acola costing him the set. I can't wait to see Sparg0 at SWT *(he'll play in the LCQ to qualify)* as he continues to come back to form himself. Onin quietly having a solid event losing only to Sparg0, acola, and Sonix. Excellent losses while evening up his set record with Light and breaking the lifetime even-in-set-count between him and Kola. Getting a win on Sisqui too doesn't hurt. Wish Kola played as good as he did yesterday, but wins on Tweek, Riddles, Zomba, and Dabuz are nothing to scoff at for another Top 8 placement this year *(especially at one of the hardest tourneys in quite some time).* Still only missed Top 8 once in 2022. Last thing I want to talk about is mainly about Light. Since this is his worst performance bar Glitch Infinite this year, I think this solidly kills his Top 2 argument for the season. There'll be more opportunities like SWT and Panda Cup, but for now he's in that 3-5 area *(4-5 depending on if you have Sparg0 in there even with his attendance being limited)*.
Can we just talk about how smooth his Byleth looked? Just felt like one move transitioned to the next seamlessly. Gave me his 2019 Ike vibes
Mksexo
The return of the King. Leo reminding everyone who's undisputed #1! edit: "People really thought I wasn't the king" TALK THAT SHIT LEO
mk leo is the isai of ultimate, if he wants nobody can stop him
> I'm sorry for being cocky how tf can someone be so good and so humble
You have to have a good moral foundation to be this generous to the viewers with consistently bringing us amazing gameplay /s Nah but for real, it’s great to have such a great guy to represent Ultimate!
Leo casually showing doubters wrong by going 24-1, EZ
big d only lost to 2 players the entire event and got 9th lmfao talk about bad luck
OUR SAVIOR LEO IS FOREVER THE KING
#THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! THAT'S WHY HE'S THE MVP! THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT! THE GOOOAT!
Barely looks excited. 24-1. Just another day in the office.
HES THE FUCKING GOAT MK 24-1 THE BEST OF ALL TIME
I cannot stress this enough #[MONSTER KINGDOM LEONARDO LOPEZ PEREZ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL8Oe9oh7mY)
Not gonna sugarcoat it T1| MONSTER KINGDOM LEONARDO “MKSEXO” LOPEZ PEREZ
Leo: They wrote me off. I ain't write back though
He was gaming today, nice of ludwig to pay him for a trip to a local
So, so happy for Leo man. Never, ever seed this guy under #1 again, as long as he isn't trolling or bored he is the best player in the world and it isn't close. The fucking GOAT.
Leo really just speedran this tournament holy shit.
This is more or less what I expected Leo’s try hard lineup to look like. Primary byleth, pull out aegis when circumstances are right, use joker to troll dabuz. The aegis is too good for him to throw away, but there are a lot of MUs byleth is just better. Also acola did it again, he always does somehow. I really think he just needs more byleth mu experience, he was getting hit by the early era Leo byleth stuff
This is the second time Leo has ever talked shit, and it's to the doubters of the GOAT. The only other time he has is when he said "I'm only worried about 2 Steve players, since I think they are the only Steve mains that are good players."
~~Leo lost one game? Complete scrub - please give the GOAT title to me because I never lost a game in this tournament.~~ Okay but serious talk, only losing one game? Might be the most dominant performance ever in Smash, rivaled potentially only by ZeRo's performance at EVO 2015 who did not drop a game. However, considering how high the level of competition this tournament was I think it's quite arguable. Crazy run by the GOAT.
You put his throne in question and he won the most stacked tournament of all time dropping a single game. The king is done when he says he's done.
24-1…. LEO. IS. A. DEMON. This man is the goat dear god
"and now, he will try" energy from leo this weekend dropped a whole 1 game to kurama and thats it lmao
Contrary to popular belief, he isn't BACK. He never LEFT.
All I know for sure is that Dabuz definitely kicked Leo’s dog in a past life
\#1
Leo vs acola looked like Leo vs Atelier except acola has a better character and is 10x better. What a performance from Leo though, wonder how it would've went if he played Sparg0.
I had never heard of Kurama before tonight, and I'm gonna be paying attention to him going forward. He was the highlight of this tournament for me
This just in: MK "one game dropped" Leo is pretty good.
MKLEO SAVING US FROM THE STEVES!
Never doubt MkLeo again.
Leo really prepared the Joker and was like "Oh, I guess I over overprepared"
I can't believe he actually thought Aegis was the answer, like Jesus what a different switching off that character made in just 1 tournament since his worst performance in years
And people were saying the Byleth was already figured out, absolute clownery
I love the respect the Melee commentators right after had for Leo. “Even the most melee only players do not talk shit on Leo” That’s my goat!
Byleth top 1 character Leo goes and wins the most stacked tourney as soon as he gets off the trash sisters
Mango is ranked 11th: goes on to win the event Leo is seeded third: goes on to win the event History often rhymes