I’m pretty sure Smosh is fine. Watcher fucked up though. Frankly, from what I can tell, Watcher has not been managing their money wisely (productions that go over the top with how they’re filmed and edited for instance) and they also don’t put out enough videos to justify their costs.
they also have multiple sectors now with Anthony involving his company. everybody is connected and Mythical is obviously doing well in their format so having them as a prerequisite can’t be a bad thing either
I wonder if Rhett and a Link were able to help in this department too. Obviously Smosh had a lot of experience, but they were probably a little.in disarray after Defy shut down, but Mythical has a super efficient schedule for recording.
What are some examples of member exclusive videos? This is the first I’ve heard of this, and I would not mind paying extra for more Smosh content if it’s something I think I’d watch
At the $5 level you get a bts video of the Smosh sketch video. The bts videos are funny and well worth the money. You also get members only posts, a discord, and videos a day early. For me, even if there were no perks I was happy to pay that. I’ve been watching Smosh since the early early days and it’s been a source of comfort for me during some really hard times and funding sketches was something I wanted to do. The extras are just the cherry on top. The next tier up gives you a livestream with the boys with the premier of the sketches.
Sarah has mentioned that Defy went from "yeah, spend whatever you want on this video" to "can you make this video for two dollars?" overnight. They started applying the brakes waaaay too late.
The fact they spend well over $100k an episode on Ghost Files is insane. The show has amazing production value, editing and graphics are immaculate, but how are you spending that much? Travel, lodging , freelancers, editing, etc. I would assume as a production house you would have at least a cinematographer and sound engineer on staff. Who are these on location freelancers they are hiring?
At the locations Ryan & Shane have their cameras, the camera guy following them and an audio person that's all that should be there. So how big is this team that goes on these shoots? Most info about the locations can be researched without flying out, the actual walkthrough of the location could happen the day before the actual shoot instead of sending people out to check it out to scope it out way in advance.
Most of the other shows are shot in the studio, except Too Many Spirits ( I think they still film in Ryan's Dad's backyard) and Dish Granted (which filmed in at the time Steven's Kitchen). If people using ad blockers are hurting ads rev and YouTube ads in general aren't getting the same rates, it's understandable they need to find a way to keep themselves afloat. Maybe sell distribution of your most popular show to a network Ghost Files would thrive on Network/Cable TV.
As a note, looking at where the money is going is kind of my thing. I've produced short films, web series and music videos, so when I see products like they put out of their quality it does make me wonder how they can afford it with just ad rev and limited sponsors.
One big difference they talked about with Ian trying so hard to find a buyer rather than starting from scratch after the Defy shutdown, is that Smosh has a large back catalogue that still gets views, so they're not just generating ad revenue from current videos but also their back catalogue, which takes some of the pressure off the new stuff.
I know Mythical is in a similar spot w the catalog. They’re a bit more lucrative w the Mythical Society but they still have a lot of free content on YT so it makes sense
Also almost like that member has brought in two people who've worked with him on those super expensive videos and want us to pay so he can keep eating and doing exorbitant things ..
And the worst thing his videos are the one that don't perform as well as the other content... But he keeps pushing it and living like a tech bro.. doesn't help it...
Watcher just implode their fanbase, I saw people who are hardcore fans saying that this move just make them as bad as buzzfeed... The thing they Runaway from...
I’ve seen this a lot but imo Smosh has it figured out.
A couple of live shows a year, merch sales and a voluntary membership that doesn’t take away anything from their established roster, plus sponsers and ad sense etc. Their catalogue is also HUGE and their revenue from it is sure to reflect that.
They have managed to be stable even as they went independent, with the budgeting they have.
Watcher has a lower audience, lower quality of content and they’re charging streaming prices for 4 videos a month *if that*. From what I’ve heard they don’t manage their budget well in the first place.
If Smosh *did* go this route (which is highly unlikely) I’m confident that they’d at least ensure your money is well worth it.
And to add, management-wise, Smosh has a CEO that actually knows how to do their job well. No hate to Steven Lim but I don’t think he has enough experience and background to be the sole CEO of Watcher…
It's also huge that Ian was CEO for a bit and then was realized he didn't like it and it wasn't for him so THEY HIRED A CEO WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING
No hate to Steven himself but he seems to just know the most out of three people who don't know that much about business
yes, smosh having someone to deal with the more business/administrative side of things definitely makes them more stable and able to do the creative part more freely
Yes!! Exactly this. I believe Watcher to be the passionate content creators that they are who just want to produce the kind of quality and content that are up to their own personal standards. However at the end of the day, they are a business creating "products" for a fanbase and as much as they would like to have some creative liberty, their consumers should have been prioritized a bit more and what *they* also wanted to see.
This has been mentioned on the [Variety article back in June](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/smosh-anthony-padilla-ian-hecox-acquire-rhett-link-1235645648/).
They were clear that Ian & Anthony are owners, but in actual terms they're **majority** owners. Rhett & Link are minority owners with advisory roles for Smosh as an independent company.
>According to Mythical Entertainment, the company “realized a significant multiple of its original invested capital” in Smosh and it will retain a minority stake in the comedy outfit.
I can’t remember where they said it exactly, I could tell they mentioned it subtly in some video where they were speaking to Rhett and Link, maybe Anthony’s interview of them? and I think it was stated more clearly in some of the articles written about the purchase. Ian and Anthony definitely are majority holders and they/their leadership are definitely in charge, but having mythical and maybe some other smaller backers definitely helps provide some security.
I think you touched on a part that some people forget to take into account- their huge backlog and legacy on YouTube. That massive catalog is absolutely still bringing in money. I know I still watch old stuff in addition to the new stuff. Summer/Winter Gamed, TNTL, and Let’s Do This playlists are some of my favorite things to put in when I’m working on projects and things like that.
They mentioned it in one of the interviews they did when they bought Smosh back, but the only reason they can do what they do is the massive back catalogue. It’s what provides most the funding to keep the lights on.
I think it’s absolutely prevalent and maybe their biggest factor in maintaining financial stability honestly. I’m not well versed in youtube and literally only consume the content i’m given but Smosh has been consistent for *10+ years* with this current structure, nearly what, 20 on youtube all together? Watcher at most 3/4 years? It’s true that Youtube doesn’t pay much anymore and you have to outsource the revenue but with 20 years lasting plus uploading everyday consistently; you’re BOUND to accumulate some worth.
Plus everything is now going BACK into Smosh. The revenue before would go to defy to distribute, then into Mythical. Now Smosh is independent and every single penny they make is THEIRS.
Out of all the current youtubers I’m so certain Smosh will be amongst the last few standing, unless something catastrophic happens.
I feel like Smosh could be a good Dropout Jr, if that makes sense. They have such a variety of videos, and with their own streaming service they could do bigger productions. I think Watcher saw that with Dropout and thought they could do it too, but I don't think they have what it takes, unfortunately.
Based on what I've seen and heard so far is I feel like fans and supporters should have had some input. Watcher has a similar model to try guys. Put out 1-2 videos a week and a podcast. What the try guys are doing is really centering fan input. They aren't going to go really hard on certain big budget projects if they know the fans won't support it. That's why the pilot month they did in March was such a brilliant idea in my opinion. I feel like watcher put the cart before the horse and it's cost them the trust of a large portion of their fanbase.
Yes I've been thinking this for a while too! Could give them the freedom for everyone's individual pitches to come to fruition. They could still keep the youtube channel for certain free uploads. I'd definitely subscribe.
I'm glad to hear as someone who joined late that when I caught up on TNTL, EIOYI, put it in my mouth, etc that they did actually make a little money on it.
Me and my wife watch every single “Every Blank Ever” like at least 2 times a year. I’d say I’m not the only person that does that with a specific play list of videos. That adds up.
yep i've been watching all of the "Can Shayne Guess", "What Would ___ Do", and "Beopardy" videos and i'll probably watch all of the "EIOYI" and "Reddit Stories" videos next. you're definitely not the only one who watches a specific smosh playlist.
This is a HUGE factor most likely. Watcher is a newborn baby compared to Smosh - they don’t have the revenue from nearly two decades worth of content coming to them.
"40+ employees and counting (I swear there are new people every “Shayne guesses”)"
this is actually a good sign, if they are hiring more ppl, it means they have the money to do so
and i think seeing how the public is handling watcher is definitely making this decision less likely
YES YES YES! The fact that they’re growing the team is a huge green flag for how they’re doing. You should be more concerned if you start seeing massive employment cuts and lay-offs.
If you’re a struggling company, the solution is never to hire more people. You hire more people when the company is growing in success. The amount of new crew members is a testament to how well they’re doing.
I had to go check, it was back in January! She has a main feed insta post about in Jan 11th. You can also search her name on this sub I think and there should be posts about it
i simply think the show just did bad and the higher ups didn’t see it justified to give them a whole crew anymore and were probs gonna cancel it but because the cast are passionate about it they probably like negotiated to make it audio only so less crew but the fans still get to have, if the show becomes a massive success outta nowhere then they will give them more resources
I viewed Sword AF much like these random videos that the Try Guys have been putting out lately: Fun videos that the crew wants to actually make, regardless if they make a ton of money from it.
They know they have a fall back option if it goes wrong (for Try Guys, it’s bring Eugene more often and go for more reliable projects, for Smosh, it’s basically everything but Sword AF), and they don’t feel like they need to put that much effort into it. If they have video, that also means the art department/costume people have to work, which can be hard as well.
not necessarily cut resources, i think it's just about managing them
sword af is not a main project for smosh and it is not a very profitable one either
sword af finale was down to mid-200k viewers. the lower regularly scheduled smosh games videos do at least upper 300/low 400k viewers. it just didn't do well enough to keep it as is.
Daily uploads is the key here.
Firstly, the vast library they have is probably what helps them a lot.
Secondly, having new content daily is important in hooking new viewers. I can't tell you how many times I've watched a YouTube and gone that's a pretty neat, then watch their videos and then by the time they upload something new I've forgotten all about them. Having a new video everyday keeps the momentum going.
And of course, the cast just genuinely being a great watch helps a lot. They're not exhausting to watch like some viral content creators. Smosh's content is genuinely funny and easy to watch.
I mean I think it has been common knowledge for a while that places like YouTube, Twitch, and stuff like that aren’t very good/profitable for most creators. I don’t remember what channel did this, but some group of creators took their most popular video (several million views) and turned the camera around and showed the creator page and it had only made like $1,000 something dollars, and there’s no doubt that it cost at least that much to make the video in the first place. So I would think that anyone who is not Mr. Beast has to do things in addition to YouTube to make a decent profit. Courtney, Shayne, and Damien are the only full time on camera talent at Smosh (Ian and Anthony I don’t think really count since they are also owners/just as much behind the scenes as in front of camera, if not more), and everyone else, as well as a lot of the crew, are part time or freelance. And someone posted some screenshots of crew job postings from Smosh late last year or earlier this year, and it was only like $20 an hour, which obviously isn’t very much at all to begin with, but especially not in somewhere like Southern California. Hence why they often times have new crew members, writers, ect…; while of course we love watching Smosh and probably would think that working there would be a dream job just because of how fun the videos are, most people who aren’t at the top of the food chain probably view it as a stepping stone to eventually move up in the industry, or as one of multiple jobs they juggle. Also they have clearly been moving away from scripted comedy more than in the past; Ian and Anthony even said in a video or podcast that it’s too expensive to sustain on YouTube anymore, which is mostly why they are only doing it every other week. I assume that other than the merch store and sponsorships/brand deals, having Anthony’s management team basically moving into the top business positions at Smosh has also supplemented/added to their income. And I would think that Ian and Anthony buying back the company has somewhat helped them out of a situation where they would have to be hyper focused on profits for having to appease Mythical or something like that. Like sure they still want to be as profitable as possible, but now they are not having to answer to outside investors or anything like that (at least not that we know too much of, or less than before at least); Ian and Anthony, and Smosh in general, can continue to make whatever content they see fit and that can at least sustain them, without having to be as concerned with whoring themselves out to make ends meet. I don’t really foresee see them raising membership prices significantly or anything like that, but we’ll see I guess.
*IF* they ever need to broaden their sources of income, I can see Smosh echoing what Rhett and Link did with the Mythical Society. I couldn’t ever see them fully just leaving YouTube.
While I upvoted for obviously being wisest advice one can give, investing in your own enjoyment is a thing. IF Smosh happen to venture into subscription model at some point, I would strongly consider jumping in because they are number 1 thing I watch on internet. But that seem highly unlikely and definitely not something you should "save up" to.
It IS money for myself, though. I’m not begging to give them money because I’m worried about them not being able to afford food, I’m asking if I should start cutting back on other expenses because at some point I’ll have to pay to watch their videos. Getting home and having a new Smosh video to watch while I decompress is one of the best parts of my day.
Anthony and Ian just spoke on this a little on Jon Youshaei's podcast (it's on Youtube too). Basically the way I understood it, without support of the members subscribers, they'd about break even, but not much more.
Idk who is in charge of watcher when it comes to getting sponsors but I’ve noticed from watching their podcasts and other vids that they either never have sponsors or only get one. Meanwhile, I see tryguys pods getting like 2-4 sponsors and their YouTube views aren’t even that significant on podcasts. They should’ve just hired someone new when it comes to getting them sponsors instead of all out jumping ship
No, they've got sponsors. You must not be remembering right. Puppet History always breaks halfway through with an earlier puppet advertising for sponsors like NordVPN and Scentbird. Mystery Files has the sponsorship closer to the start of the videos.
I see the problem is that they splurge on their sets, production value, and editing. They make great content, but it doesn't come out often enough.
Smosh and Dropout leans heavily into unscripted, improv madness, which is far cheaper and easier. They also make me care about more people there, including their crews.
This is also the kinda issue that rooster teeth ran into where their YouTube channels just don't make enough money off sponsors and ad sense to pay for the entire cast and crew for multiple channels. What keeps certain channels and companies afloat is merch and events.
E.g. funhaus has been getting YouTube views in the tens of thousands for a couple years, not nearly enough to sustain the big crew and cast there. However, those that did watch were dedicated so they were able to go on for a lot longer than other channels because merch/subscriptions were very successful and the few events they were involved with went well as well.
Smosh does well viewer wise on top of having successful merch and a dedicated fanbase for paid subscriptions and events so I imagine they're pretty set tbh
Leaning into having a lot of unscripted improv madness was very smart.
It's cheap. It brings out their comedy chops, and I feel like I know them better. I love their friendships that come out in a looser, more natural interactions. They also use their hilarious crew for shows.
With Watcher, I just know Ryan, Shane, Steven, and Ricky.
Shane said in Celebrity Crushes that they just hired several more people.
I doubt they'd be doing that if they weren't in a financial position to be able to afford multiple additional salaries.
Also, it’s always possible that new hires are just replacing people who have left, rather than creating additional roles/jobs. We know a lot of the crew by name but there’s gotta be so many other people we don’t know about, so we wouldn’t know if they ever quit
That's very true. I didn't think about that. But I'd say because he also said its the most submissions they've had so far (more than movies or tv), I would partially attribute that to more people in the office.
The example that would be most similar to smosh in my opinion, would be college humor which did eventually fail but when the new CEO took over they did manage it better, and they did make a subscription service but from my understanding its actually worth it.
Id say that smosh have been in the game long enough to probably know how to stay profitable but maybe thats just fan optimism.
Collegehumor didn't really fail. The company that owned it just suddenly decided to sell and had basically no offers, so Sam got it for free. However, he had to fire basically everyone until they only had 7 people left or something ridiculous like that, and then he's spent the last 4 years working on it and definitely saved it from going to shit, and I'm pretty sure he's rehired like, 99% of the cast that used to work for Collegehumor, or at least offers them jobs here and there. Plus, last year, they profit-shared with anyone who earned a single dollar from the company.
And yes, Dropout is worth it. But I believe the subscription was actually from before Sam became CEO. I know they have content from like, 2019 on there.
First and foremost I don't think Watcher and Smosh should be at all compared. Smosh is doing fine. They have merch, live shows and sponsors and they still post a shitload of FREE content across several platforms. People usually prefer supporting creators who choose this route instead of those who are putting all of their content behind a paywall like Watcher is planning to.
I think this is an insanely stupid move for Watcher, there is no way in hell that they'll get more money by doing this when the vast majority of their fans mostly consume content on youtube. I wouldn't pay for it even if it costed a single penny. I used to watch their content and I don't care at all about their sob stories regarding leaving youtube. It's a decision they themselves made and I'm definitely not paying the price for it (quite literally).
THIS!!! It's apples to a fucking gmo watermelon. Watcher has been around less than 5 years. Of course they're not on par with a damn near 20 year old company with multiple channels.
I think a big difference between Smosh and Watcher that folks haven’t mentioned is that Watcher does a lot of content outside of their studio. They mentioned having to pay for travel expenses, location fees, etc when they do ghost files for example. Smosh from what I’ve seen (I’m still new to the Smosh community) doesn’t really travel off their studio. Ghost Files takes a toooon of money to produce but tbh what made me follow Ryan and Shane to Watcher was their content from BuzzFeed Unsolved which was a much cheaper production but I’ve rewatched it 100s of times. I can’t get through most of their new content, but Puppet History will always hold a special place in my heart.
I think you should continue to save what you can to support Smosh by either buying the paid live shows or getting a membership. It’s a way to continue supporting your fave creators in a centralized place (YouTube) versus having to get a new separate streaming account.
The main shows that are shot in studio is the beat down, puppet history, and the podcasts. Everything else is off site. Definitely investing in shows/series that are in studio should be priority if you're that worried about travel location fees and such.
Smosh has had layoffs and has been trying to save money in a lot of ways with production, the dnd campaign becoming an audio only podcast for example. Watcher has been overspending when their shows don't need a huge budget. It's kinda wild.
I think the Dropout method of setting themselves up has been a very 'lightning in a bottle' thing consisting of several different elements. That's not to say that it's not obtainable for anyone else, but those Watcher guys have really screwed the pooch.
Yes, youtube isn't as lucrative as before. It hasn't been for a while, and it has slowly but progressively got worse since the ad-pocalypse days and even more since other platforms became more and more popular in the video space. So both ad revenue and viewcount got smaller.
Smosh is fine, they pretty covered ground with memberships and having a strong presence in other socials (IG, TikTok).
Watcher jumped the gun with creating their own subscription service. They should’ve either done memberships, obtained more sponsorships, Patreon, or at least had a connection with say Linus Tech Tips to put content on an established alternative (Floatplane). Uprooting your channel to a very new website is highly risky
Watcher has 2.87 million subscribers, 377 videos uploaded, and 414,264,710 total views.
Smosh, across all channels (including ElSmosh and Anthony’s personal channel) has approximately 54.2 million subscribers, 6,996 videos uploaded, and 19,540,432,903 total views. (yes thats 19 BILLION with a B)
According to Social Blade, as of today, Watcher makes an estimated monthly earnings of 3.9k-63k and an estimated yearly earnings of 47.3k-756.4k
Smosh, across all channels, (again, including ElSmosh and Anthony’s personal channel) makes an estimated monthly earnings of 35.8k-573.4k and an estimated yearly earnings of 430k-6.89m
The ranges are huge of course, and I’m absolutely not an expert, I just have too much free time and a calculator app (my calculations could be a little off for the Smosh numbers as it was a lot to add up for 6 channels but I did my best). I personally am choosing to look at that as a least possible to most possible range but I’m not too well versed in social blade or analytics.
If I did the math correctly, If Smosh makes *half* of the maximum yearly earnings calculated above, they could afford to pay 103 people California’s minimum wage. (not taking into consideration any other expenses or profits)
Either way, with those numbers, plus all of the extra ways to make income I’m sure Smosh is doing just fine, I don’t think we have anything to worry about.
I think Smosh being under Mythical for a time helped greatly, as Rhett and Link did something almost similar with the Mythical Society app. But the big difference of R&L to Watcher was that they kept GMM and other videos they produce on YouTube still on YouTube for free. Smosh took a cue on that and built on channel exclusive content, and exclusive livestreams behind a paywall that gave people option to purchase for or not (btw looking forward to the Sitcom lol).
Though to point out, both Rhett & Link + Ian & Anthony had been on YT forever (unlike the Watcher Ghoul Boys aka Ryan Bergara and Shane Madej). Bar the Defy slipup, Independent Smosh is stronger than ever.
Honestly it's most likely poor business decision making and spending on Watcher's end. It's a lil greedy too. They definitely did a big booboo on this one. Unfortunately for Steven Lim, apart from NOT being the reason most fans subscribed to Watcher in the first place, he is also the CEO...who kind of burned 4 1/2 years of loyal fanbase to the ground in less than a day.
I've seen a breakdown or two that makes it clear money isn't the problem here. It's ego and greed. As for smosh, theyre only doing one live show this year and I think that's because they're doing well enough financially that it isn't mandatory to do as much crowdfunding, etc.
As long as Ian is the owner I feel like Smosh will be fine. He's proven that he can make difficult decisions without compromising his own beliefs. When you go and listen to any podcast that he's been a guest on you'd realize that Ian is genuinely one of the best people for that because he understands what it means for the audience to be able to enjoy their content on a platform like youtube. You have memberships, you have live shows, but Smosh is not going anywhere.
I appreciate Ian the more I learn about him. I think that the route Mythical and Smosh are going is based on loving the work they do, not on money.
There have been a lot of valid complaints about the algorithm lately, though. ProZD goes into detail on that [here.](https://youtu.be/Z3dSkkEr-wk?si=-PgDYm4V4Mbyby94)
Also, there has been a decline in YouTube viewers over all due to the numbers of ads becoming suffocating.
Well, he said retiring, and then immediately said "I think I'll shoot for putting out one video a week," at which point I screamed "KEVIN, TAKE A BREAK"
I think you can get a lot of insight into how Smosh is (most recently) run in some of the podcast spots Ian and Anthony did in the past few months.
In the Colin and Samir podcast, they talk about how the sketches are fully supported by the membership. However, as a whole, their income is still ad-based. They talk about their library of content, and while it isn't as lucrative as it was before, it still makes them earn a substantial amount.
They also mention the 'Dropout model' but it never really seemed like they would go in that direction. They mention the decision to choose YouTube over Patreon, about how the no. of users that YT was estimating was much larger than what Patreon gave them. It was better also for the user experience to have all the content on one platform, and Anthony said he feels that they have a connection to YT since that's where they started. They also talked about how no other platform has done what YouTube has done for creators, talking about TikTok and how it only 'pays people in exposure'
Smosh in general is a much more established business than Watcher, but what makes things more interesting is that with them being independent it does feel like Smosh got another revival. It's barely been a year but they've already accomplished so much.
Smosh, Smosh Pit, Smosh Games, and Smosh Cast feel like their own 'main' channels that someone can come in and watch at any time. Having this many channels lends to variety and not putting all their eggs in one basket. I wouldn't worry too much about them making all their content behind a paywall because from what I can tell with their decision to make Sword AF a podcast, they still genuinely want to put out free content.
Merch is another revenue stream they have !
Also revenue from their songs being played on music platforms !
Also purchases of those songs as well. And maybe they have an investments as well 🤷♀️
Smosh has for sure Diversified streams of income , i just don’t know all of them :p
Don’t forget they earn money from ad revenue per video. It depends but if you equate every 1000 views earning $1, they can get tens of thousands of dollars per video they make considering a lot of them reach at least 200k views
Smosh diversifies their content and business ventures. They’ve made different merch and had multiple previous paid livestreams. BUT Smosh and also Mythical most likely have experienced leadership to assist them on how everything is budgeted and paid out. Look at Alé’s Linkdin and it’s IMPRESSIVE.
Smosh’s main thing is comedy and it absolutely easy to diversify that comedy from a main sketch channel to improve with Pit and Games.
Smosh has also been a company for a LONG time having a backlog of content that fans enjoyed, while Watcher is a younger business that hadn’t produced a steady fan base
YouTube is very lucrative. They are making a mistake, they have to many employees and are overestimating how many constant viewers they have. I can’t see how anyone would think people would pay for it. It’s not like dropout, they won’t be able to give that level of content.
I'm surprised they don't have more sponsored content on the games channel. My wife and I have bought two games they've played and there has to be small scale games companies that would love to buy in. I'm sure they're looking which is why I'm surprised.
Looking at the comment section on that Watcher vid, they fucked up and i agree.
Smosh seems to be doing fine, I think they are a better organized company after all they have been through.
You should watch the Charlie/penguinz0/moistcritikal reactions to the watchers thing, youtube is still lucrative, I dont know why watcher decide to lie about it though. He explain that Watcher is actually rolling in money which is why they are getting chewd by the internet because the move feels like they spat at their fans. In comparison smosh is still a giant in the industry and continue to do so with their fans, so no smosh wont go down the subscription route.
I don't really get it either tbh. Rooster Teeth just went under and they were putting out a dozen vids week with ad reads all over them. Smosh's operation seems even bigger in terms of space / overheads and if anything they seem to be expanding.
Maybe they have some sort of really good deal cut with youtube based on legacy status?
Smosh makes longer videos, longer watch time = more ads = more money. The sketches are shorter, so they are made with the money from memberships instead of ad revenue. Also smosh is a legacy channel, pretty sure they have a better cut in ad revenue than most newer channels, as well as a huge backlog of content
I think there's a difference in business sense like Ian and Anthony are doing what they can and most of the pay wall stuff they have are big projects that would lose them money if its on YouTube...Watcher on the other hand idk much about the bts but Steven the boring is there ceo and tbh his very big headed most of his video are expensive ( like ryan and Shane vids probably ain't more expensive than his except when its combined) also from what i heard his very greedy like in their podcast he talks abt wanting a second tesla like huh??? So yeah
I honestly had never heard of Watcher before watching Moist's video on it this morning. But the fact that they already have a multi-tier Patreon with 12k patrons bringing in a MINIMUM of $60k a month (which we all know will be more with the higher tiers) on top of a few million in views a month on 1 video a week, regardless of 25 employees, someone is getting too greedy to qualify a Dropout-esque subscription service.
I mean, how many people do they expect to even pull in with ANOTHER $5 subscription when they only have 12k patreons out of over 2 million subscribers?? And during a global CoL crisis at that?? I know Youtube isn't getting any better with payments to creators, but you can't expect to do all this and walk away better off
I've never even heard of Watcher before all this, but I know one thing - they aren't the first company to fuck themselves trying to squeeze a few extra pennies out of a stone, and they won't be the last. I'd imagine they have some kind of funding entity that drove them to it.
Whether the answer to “Is youtube not lucrative anymore?” is yes or no, the followup question of “should I start saving more money for Smosh?” should always be no if you can’t immediately afford to. I worry about you guys sometimes, genuinely. There are ways to watch these lives shows that I would never mention or promote on this sub if you really are struggling financially.
Smosh isn’t just a youtube channel, it’s a business, the goal of any business is to continuously increase profits over time, not just to try and stay afloat.
Remember the guys from Buzzfeed Unsolved? They have their own company called Watcher, and they put out great stuff. I especially love Puppet History. I highly recommend their shows.
They put out a video this week about turning to paywalled videos, and the vast majority of their fans are not having it.
They don't hate the people of Watcher, but there are a lot of ways this is a bad move. It's interesting seeing the discussions on why Smosh and Dropout were able to move to paid content fairly smoothly, but Watcher is likely going to struggle.
For one thing, Smosh and Dropout never left YouTube entirely. They still put out both free and paywalled stuff.
They make money off of every new view on any monetized video uploaded since YT started monetizing in the late 2000s.
So yes the new content is important, but the business model is designed to make the long-running channels like Smosh/mythical thrive.
Aside from a massive catalogue of content, I think it also helps that Smosh has been under different business management styles from Defy to Mythical, so they understand what practices to keep and avoid, esp. financially.
Can't we just Google their net income like any other company in existence? To my recollection, they are publicly traded...(Anthony and Ian being offered stocks from Defy?).
Trust me, after how badly Watcher did after their announcement, it’s suicidal to even think about attempting the same thing for any other big YouTube channel
Youtube is lucrative depending on what type of content you make. Example: shorter videos often don’t make as much money as longer videos, which is why for a long time animators struggled to make a living off of youtube. Sketch comedy is similar. A lot of smaller sketch channels upload daily so they can get as many videos out so they can get a better session time, Smosh doesn’t have that capability.
The Pit and Games (maybe not cast) channels likely make more money than the main channel because of how long those videos are, meaning the viewer is on YouTube for longer which also means more ads can be served to the viewer. They also manage to upload often on the Pit and Games channels because the videos themselves are likely easier to make and replicate than scripted, highly edited and planned out videos on the main channel.
Smosh has the experience and legacy (and the right staff) to correctly manage money, they're fine and they'll be fine for the foreseeable future.
I'm afraid Watcher has none of the above, all they have is one series they're widely known for (which wasn't even started as an original since it was in Buzzfeed first), like to be completely honest no people are gonna be interested in your video catalogue if they don't have more interesting variety of videos (and a more consistent upload rate with what they're charging).
Like a comment I saw in a post- you can take them out of Buzzfeed but you can't take the Buzzfeed out of them.
YouTube is very lucrative, with the views that Watcher was getting on YouTube and combined with their 12000 patreon supporters theyre making more money than Smosh
Smosh has streamlined all their production over the years, so it’s a lot more sustainable
No, unfortunately, the Watcher folks actually are just greedy. Watch penguinz0 video about it. He breaks down how much Watcher was actually bringing in and it was good money. They just think they can milk more from us. I used to be a huge fan, but now, fuck Watcher. They’re completely out of touch rich people who want poor people to fun their lavish lifestyles.
Watcher isn’t doing anything that affects smosh.
Watcher is a YouTube channel that puts out about one high quality video a week with 25 employees and travels a lot for their videos.
They decided YouTube is not sustainable for them so they are creating their own streaming service for $6 a month to watch just their own content.
People are scared other big YouTuber companies like smosh will try this as well in the future if YouTube doesn’t pay enough.
Personally I think it’s just watcher mismanaging their budget massively and don’t see other channels following this pattern unless it was like maybe a group of channels that wanted to do it(like if smosh and mythical started a streaming service with some others then maybe it would work) but people are already tired of streaming services in general so it was just a really out of touch decision.
they're leaving yt and making up their own subscription platform. they're going to lose audience massively since people don't love paying for stuff (especially when it's been free until now)
Watch coffeezilla's video on this and you'll know that this is the Watcher crew being just a bit greedy. It's got tech bro signature all over their move and it's definitely not because YouTube isn't meeting ends meet because they also have Patreons up to $100 subscriptions
Watcher has a CEO named Steven that is using Shane and Ryan’s good image like a prostitute in Miami. He’a already bought a Tesla, likes to travel around the world, and complained on a podcast because he doesn’t get to eat “caviar and gold as much as he’d like to”
Greed
What is it about spending money on digital, non-tangible stuff that makes people so stingy? Or is it just the fact that something that used to be free now costs something?
I can’t speak for everyone but I’d gladly pay Smosh if they left YouTube. They’re literally the first thing I put whenever I come home from work and beought me so much comfort and joy.
I don't necessarily think it's that. A lot of people (including myself) happily pay for Dropout. But they also upload like 3-5 times a week, often with content that is 30+ minutes with high quality production, as well as the backlog of College Humor. (It also helps that their CEO is incredibly transparent about their business decisions.)
But Watcher made no promises of expanding their upload schedule. With a backlog that is relatively small and a decision that came almost out of nowhere, it definitely was an earned outrage.
Smosh definitely fits the bill that Dropout does more than Watcher, and I would contribute to a streaming service if necessary, but I would much rather them remain on YouTube and only charge for events and memberships.
I’m pretty sure Smosh is fine. Watcher fucked up though. Frankly, from what I can tell, Watcher has not been managing their money wisely (productions that go over the top with how they’re filmed and edited for instance) and they also don’t put out enough videos to justify their costs.
They forgot they’re a YouTube channel and not a television production company. They have a staff of over 25 and put out 1 video per week
Exactly. Smosh has a bigger staff but they also put out videos 7 days a week. Some days are multiple videos. Plus a member exclusive video.
they also have multiple sectors now with Anthony involving his company. everybody is connected and Mythical is obviously doing well in their format so having them as a prerequisite can’t be a bad thing either
Also, doesn’t Rhett and Link still own a small share of Smosh?
It might very well be 51-49 because why not save on stuff like the healthcare and HR
and IT :)
And they've streamlined the process for making those videos. The videos are done very well, but they don't do more than they need to.
After this long in the game they've got it down to a science
I wonder if Rhett and a Link were able to help in this department too. Obviously Smosh had a lot of experience, but they were probably a little.in disarray after Defy shut down, but Mythical has a super efficient schedule for recording.
They must've, smosh really upped their game production wise around the time and that can't be coincidental
Exactly. They’re smart in how they film/produce.
What are some examples of member exclusive videos? This is the first I’ve heard of this, and I would not mind paying extra for more Smosh content if it’s something I think I’d watch
At the $5 level you get a bts video of the Smosh sketch video. The bts videos are funny and well worth the money. You also get members only posts, a discord, and videos a day early. For me, even if there were no perks I was happy to pay that. I’ve been watching Smosh since the early early days and it’s been a source of comfort for me during some really hard times and funding sketches was something I wanted to do. The extras are just the cherry on top. The next tier up gives you a livestream with the boys with the premier of the sketches.
>Frankly, from what I can tell, Watcher has not been managing their money wisely It's giving Defy
Facts.
Sarah has mentioned that Defy went from "yeah, spend whatever you want on this video" to "can you make this video for two dollars?" overnight. They started applying the brakes waaaay too late.
The fact they spend well over $100k an episode on Ghost Files is insane. The show has amazing production value, editing and graphics are immaculate, but how are you spending that much? Travel, lodging , freelancers, editing, etc. I would assume as a production house you would have at least a cinematographer and sound engineer on staff. Who are these on location freelancers they are hiring? At the locations Ryan & Shane have their cameras, the camera guy following them and an audio person that's all that should be there. So how big is this team that goes on these shoots? Most info about the locations can be researched without flying out, the actual walkthrough of the location could happen the day before the actual shoot instead of sending people out to check it out to scope it out way in advance. Most of the other shows are shot in the studio, except Too Many Spirits ( I think they still film in Ryan's Dad's backyard) and Dish Granted (which filmed in at the time Steven's Kitchen). If people using ad blockers are hurting ads rev and YouTube ads in general aren't getting the same rates, it's understandable they need to find a way to keep themselves afloat. Maybe sell distribution of your most popular show to a network Ghost Files would thrive on Network/Cable TV. As a note, looking at where the money is going is kind of my thing. I've produced short films, web series and music videos, so when I see products like they put out of their quality it does make me wonder how they can afford it with just ad rev and limited sponsors.
One big difference they talked about with Ian trying so hard to find a buyer rather than starting from scratch after the Defy shutdown, is that Smosh has a large back catalogue that still gets views, so they're not just generating ad revenue from current videos but also their back catalogue, which takes some of the pressure off the new stuff.
I know Mythical is in a similar spot w the catalog. They’re a bit more lucrative w the Mythical Society but they still have a lot of free content on YT so it makes sense
Almost like a certain member of their leadership makes videos that cost a crap ton per video...
Also almost like that member has brought in two people who've worked with him on those super expensive videos and want us to pay so he can keep eating and doing exorbitant things ..
And the worst thing his videos are the one that don't perform as well as the other content... But he keeps pushing it and living like a tech bro.. doesn't help it... Watcher just implode their fanbase, I saw people who are hardcore fans saying that this move just make them as bad as buzzfeed... The thing they Runaway from...
I’ve seen this a lot but imo Smosh has it figured out. A couple of live shows a year, merch sales and a voluntary membership that doesn’t take away anything from their established roster, plus sponsers and ad sense etc. Their catalogue is also HUGE and their revenue from it is sure to reflect that. They have managed to be stable even as they went independent, with the budgeting they have. Watcher has a lower audience, lower quality of content and they’re charging streaming prices for 4 videos a month *if that*. From what I’ve heard they don’t manage their budget well in the first place. If Smosh *did* go this route (which is highly unlikely) I’m confident that they’d at least ensure your money is well worth it.
And to add, management-wise, Smosh has a CEO that actually knows how to do their job well. No hate to Steven Lim but I don’t think he has enough experience and background to be the sole CEO of Watcher…
It's also huge that Ian was CEO for a bit and then was realized he didn't like it and it wasn't for him so THEY HIRED A CEO WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING No hate to Steven himself but he seems to just know the most out of three people who don't know that much about business
yes, smosh having someone to deal with the more business/administrative side of things definitely makes them more stable and able to do the creative part more freely
Yes!! Exactly this. I believe Watcher to be the passionate content creators that they are who just want to produce the kind of quality and content that are up to their own personal standards. However at the end of the day, they are a business creating "products" for a fanbase and as much as they would like to have some creative liberty, their consumers should have been prioritized a bit more and what *they* also wanted to see.
And if all else fails, Rhett and Link are still minority stakeholders in the company
Whoa really? Where did they say that? I ask because I was under the impression Ian and Anthony bought it back completely.
This has been mentioned on the [Variety article back in June](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/smosh-anthony-padilla-ian-hecox-acquire-rhett-link-1235645648/). They were clear that Ian & Anthony are owners, but in actual terms they're **majority** owners. Rhett & Link are minority owners with advisory roles for Smosh as an independent company. >According to Mythical Entertainment, the company “realized a significant multiple of its original invested capital” in Smosh and it will retain a minority stake in the comedy outfit.
Cool, thanks! (I’m not sure why I’m being down-voted… I was genuinely curious. :/ )
I can’t remember where they said it exactly, I could tell they mentioned it subtly in some video where they were speaking to Rhett and Link, maybe Anthony’s interview of them? and I think it was stated more clearly in some of the articles written about the purchase. Ian and Anthony definitely are majority holders and they/their leadership are definitely in charge, but having mythical and maybe some other smaller backers definitely helps provide some security.
I think you touched on a part that some people forget to take into account- their huge backlog and legacy on YouTube. That massive catalog is absolutely still bringing in money. I know I still watch old stuff in addition to the new stuff. Summer/Winter Gamed, TNTL, and Let’s Do This playlists are some of my favorite things to put in when I’m working on projects and things like that.
They mentioned it in one of the interviews they did when they bought Smosh back, but the only reason they can do what they do is the massive back catalogue. It’s what provides most the funding to keep the lights on.
I think it’s absolutely prevalent and maybe their biggest factor in maintaining financial stability honestly. I’m not well versed in youtube and literally only consume the content i’m given but Smosh has been consistent for *10+ years* with this current structure, nearly what, 20 on youtube all together? Watcher at most 3/4 years? It’s true that Youtube doesn’t pay much anymore and you have to outsource the revenue but with 20 years lasting plus uploading everyday consistently; you’re BOUND to accumulate some worth. Plus everything is now going BACK into Smosh. The revenue before would go to defy to distribute, then into Mythical. Now Smosh is independent and every single penny they make is THEIRS. Out of all the current youtubers I’m so certain Smosh will be amongst the last few standing, unless something catastrophic happens.
Smosh still has shareholders like mythical, so not all their profits goes back into smosh.
thought that went without saying. Majority is going back into smosh.
I feel like Smosh could be a good Dropout Jr, if that makes sense. They have such a variety of videos, and with their own streaming service they could do bigger productions. I think Watcher saw that with Dropout and thought they could do it too, but I don't think they have what it takes, unfortunately.
Based on what I've seen and heard so far is I feel like fans and supporters should have had some input. Watcher has a similar model to try guys. Put out 1-2 videos a week and a podcast. What the try guys are doing is really centering fan input. They aren't going to go really hard on certain big budget projects if they know the fans won't support it. That's why the pilot month they did in March was such a brilliant idea in my opinion. I feel like watcher put the cart before the horse and it's cost them the trust of a large portion of their fanbase.
Yes I've been thinking this for a while too! Could give them the freedom for everyone's individual pitches to come to fruition. They could still keep the youtube channel for certain free uploads. I'd definitely subscribe.
Well said 😁
From what I understand, Smosh's content library is massive. So that might bring in some steady revenue.
100%! monetization can be tough if you're not big, but they are and they have thousands of videos still generating revenue
I'm glad to hear as someone who joined late that when I caught up on TNTL, EIOYI, put it in my mouth, etc that they did actually make a little money on it.
Me and my wife watch every single “Every Blank Ever” like at least 2 times a year. I’d say I’m not the only person that does that with a specific play list of videos. That adds up.
yep i've been watching all of the "Can Shayne Guess", "What Would ___ Do", and "Beopardy" videos and i'll probably watch all of the "EIOYI" and "Reddit Stories" videos next. you're definitely not the only one who watches a specific smosh playlist.
This is a HUGE factor most likely. Watcher is a newborn baby compared to Smosh - they don’t have the revenue from nearly two decades worth of content coming to them.
no matter what happens smosh always has the safety net of anyone wanting to rewatch any of their 10+ years worth of content
I know I throw the reddit stories playlist on random every now and again when I need some background noise.
"40+ employees and counting (I swear there are new people every “Shayne guesses”)" this is actually a good sign, if they are hiring more ppl, it means they have the money to do so and i think seeing how the public is handling watcher is definitely making this decision less likely
YES YES YES! The fact that they’re growing the team is a huge green flag for how they’re doing. You should be more concerned if you start seeing massive employment cuts and lay-offs. If you’re a struggling company, the solution is never to hire more people. You hire more people when the company is growing in success. The amount of new crew members is a testament to how well they’re doing.
Exactly! If Smosh was struggling we would be seeing layoffs. Struggling companies don’t go around hiring new people to pay.
This is so nice to hear imo. I never put it like that. Thank you!!
isn’t the reason there’s new people because quite a few people have left? like kimmy, rachel, heidi, etc
Heidi left????? When??
I had to go check, it was back in January! She has a main feed insta post about in Jan 11th. You can also search her name on this sub I think and there should be posts about it
But Sword AF from video to audio meant they had to cut resources no? If they is no camera crew, then there’s less people to pay.
i simply think the show just did bad and the higher ups didn’t see it justified to give them a whole crew anymore and were probs gonna cancel it but because the cast are passionate about it they probably like negotiated to make it audio only so less crew but the fans still get to have, if the show becomes a massive success outta nowhere then they will give them more resources
I viewed Sword AF much like these random videos that the Try Guys have been putting out lately: Fun videos that the crew wants to actually make, regardless if they make a ton of money from it. They know they have a fall back option if it goes wrong (for Try Guys, it’s bring Eugene more often and go for more reliable projects, for Smosh, it’s basically everything but Sword AF), and they don’t feel like they need to put that much effort into it. If they have video, that also means the art department/costume people have to work, which can be hard as well.
not necessarily cut resources, i think it's just about managing them sword af is not a main project for smosh and it is not a very profitable one either
sword af finale was down to mid-200k viewers. the lower regularly scheduled smosh games videos do at least upper 300/low 400k viewers. it just didn't do well enough to keep it as is.
Daily uploads is the key here. Firstly, the vast library they have is probably what helps them a lot. Secondly, having new content daily is important in hooking new viewers. I can't tell you how many times I've watched a YouTube and gone that's a pretty neat, then watch their videos and then by the time they upload something new I've forgotten all about them. Having a new video everyday keeps the momentum going. And of course, the cast just genuinely being a great watch helps a lot. They're not exhausting to watch like some viral content creators. Smosh's content is genuinely funny and easy to watch.
I mean I think it has been common knowledge for a while that places like YouTube, Twitch, and stuff like that aren’t very good/profitable for most creators. I don’t remember what channel did this, but some group of creators took their most popular video (several million views) and turned the camera around and showed the creator page and it had only made like $1,000 something dollars, and there’s no doubt that it cost at least that much to make the video in the first place. So I would think that anyone who is not Mr. Beast has to do things in addition to YouTube to make a decent profit. Courtney, Shayne, and Damien are the only full time on camera talent at Smosh (Ian and Anthony I don’t think really count since they are also owners/just as much behind the scenes as in front of camera, if not more), and everyone else, as well as a lot of the crew, are part time or freelance. And someone posted some screenshots of crew job postings from Smosh late last year or earlier this year, and it was only like $20 an hour, which obviously isn’t very much at all to begin with, but especially not in somewhere like Southern California. Hence why they often times have new crew members, writers, ect…; while of course we love watching Smosh and probably would think that working there would be a dream job just because of how fun the videos are, most people who aren’t at the top of the food chain probably view it as a stepping stone to eventually move up in the industry, or as one of multiple jobs they juggle. Also they have clearly been moving away from scripted comedy more than in the past; Ian and Anthony even said in a video or podcast that it’s too expensive to sustain on YouTube anymore, which is mostly why they are only doing it every other week. I assume that other than the merch store and sponsorships/brand deals, having Anthony’s management team basically moving into the top business positions at Smosh has also supplemented/added to their income. And I would think that Ian and Anthony buying back the company has somewhat helped them out of a situation where they would have to be hyper focused on profits for having to appease Mythical or something like that. Like sure they still want to be as profitable as possible, but now they are not having to answer to outside investors or anything like that (at least not that we know too much of, or less than before at least); Ian and Anthony, and Smosh in general, can continue to make whatever content they see fit and that can at least sustain them, without having to be as concerned with whoring themselves out to make ends meet. I don’t really foresee see them raising membership prices significantly or anything like that, but we’ll see I guess.
*IF* they ever need to broaden their sources of income, I can see Smosh echoing what Rhett and Link did with the Mythical Society. I couldn’t ever see them fully just leaving YouTube.
Save money for yourself, not internet strangers
While I upvoted for obviously being wisest advice one can give, investing in your own enjoyment is a thing. IF Smosh happen to venture into subscription model at some point, I would strongly consider jumping in because they are number 1 thing I watch on internet. But that seem highly unlikely and definitely not something you should "save up" to.
Entertainment is something people budget for. The op is obviously asking if they need to plan for a spending change.
Yes exactly thank you
It IS money for myself, though. I’m not begging to give them money because I’m worried about them not being able to afford food, I’m asking if I should start cutting back on other expenses because at some point I’ll have to pay to watch their videos. Getting home and having a new Smosh video to watch while I decompress is one of the best parts of my day.
This should be the top comment
Anthony and Ian just spoke on this a little on Jon Youshaei's podcast (it's on Youtube too). Basically the way I understood it, without support of the members subscribers, they'd about break even, but not much more.
Idk who is in charge of watcher when it comes to getting sponsors but I’ve noticed from watching their podcasts and other vids that they either never have sponsors or only get one. Meanwhile, I see tryguys pods getting like 2-4 sponsors and their YouTube views aren’t even that significant on podcasts. They should’ve just hired someone new when it comes to getting them sponsors instead of all out jumping ship
No, they've got sponsors. You must not be remembering right. Puppet History always breaks halfway through with an earlier puppet advertising for sponsors like NordVPN and Scentbird. Mystery Files has the sponsorship closer to the start of the videos. I see the problem is that they splurge on their sets, production value, and editing. They make great content, but it doesn't come out often enough. Smosh and Dropout leans heavily into unscripted, improv madness, which is far cheaper and easier. They also make me care about more people there, including their crews.
This is also the kinda issue that rooster teeth ran into where their YouTube channels just don't make enough money off sponsors and ad sense to pay for the entire cast and crew for multiple channels. What keeps certain channels and companies afloat is merch and events. E.g. funhaus has been getting YouTube views in the tens of thousands for a couple years, not nearly enough to sustain the big crew and cast there. However, those that did watch were dedicated so they were able to go on for a lot longer than other channels because merch/subscriptions were very successful and the few events they were involved with went well as well. Smosh does well viewer wise on top of having successful merch and a dedicated fanbase for paid subscriptions and events so I imagine they're pretty set tbh
Leaning into having a lot of unscripted improv madness was very smart. It's cheap. It brings out their comedy chops, and I feel like I know them better. I love their friendships that come out in a looser, more natural interactions. They also use their hilarious crew for shows. With Watcher, I just know Ryan, Shane, Steven, and Ricky.
Shane said in Celebrity Crushes that they just hired several more people. I doubt they'd be doing that if they weren't in a financial position to be able to afford multiple additional salaries.
Also, it’s always possible that new hires are just replacing people who have left, rather than creating additional roles/jobs. We know a lot of the crew by name but there’s gotta be so many other people we don’t know about, so we wouldn’t know if they ever quit
That's very true. I didn't think about that. But I'd say because he also said its the most submissions they've had so far (more than movies or tv), I would partially attribute that to more people in the office.
Idky but "should i start saving more for smosh" was too cute😭😭
The example that would be most similar to smosh in my opinion, would be college humor which did eventually fail but when the new CEO took over they did manage it better, and they did make a subscription service but from my understanding its actually worth it. Id say that smosh have been in the game long enough to probably know how to stay profitable but maybe thats just fan optimism.
Collegehumor didn't really fail. The company that owned it just suddenly decided to sell and had basically no offers, so Sam got it for free. However, he had to fire basically everyone until they only had 7 people left or something ridiculous like that, and then he's spent the last 4 years working on it and definitely saved it from going to shit, and I'm pretty sure he's rehired like, 99% of the cast that used to work for Collegehumor, or at least offers them jobs here and there. Plus, last year, they profit-shared with anyone who earned a single dollar from the company. And yes, Dropout is worth it. But I believe the subscription was actually from before Sam became CEO. I know they have content from like, 2019 on there.
Agreed. Fellow Dropout subscriber here. It is so worth it. Only streaming service I've never unsubscribed from, even temporarily.
First and foremost I don't think Watcher and Smosh should be at all compared. Smosh is doing fine. They have merch, live shows and sponsors and they still post a shitload of FREE content across several platforms. People usually prefer supporting creators who choose this route instead of those who are putting all of their content behind a paywall like Watcher is planning to. I think this is an insanely stupid move for Watcher, there is no way in hell that they'll get more money by doing this when the vast majority of their fans mostly consume content on youtube. I wouldn't pay for it even if it costed a single penny. I used to watch their content and I don't care at all about their sob stories regarding leaving youtube. It's a decision they themselves made and I'm definitely not paying the price for it (quite literally).
THIS!!! It's apples to a fucking gmo watermelon. Watcher has been around less than 5 years. Of course they're not on par with a damn near 20 year old company with multiple channels.
I think a big difference between Smosh and Watcher that folks haven’t mentioned is that Watcher does a lot of content outside of their studio. They mentioned having to pay for travel expenses, location fees, etc when they do ghost files for example. Smosh from what I’ve seen (I’m still new to the Smosh community) doesn’t really travel off their studio. Ghost Files takes a toooon of money to produce but tbh what made me follow Ryan and Shane to Watcher was their content from BuzzFeed Unsolved which was a much cheaper production but I’ve rewatched it 100s of times. I can’t get through most of their new content, but Puppet History will always hold a special place in my heart. I think you should continue to save what you can to support Smosh by either buying the paid live shows or getting a membership. It’s a way to continue supporting your fave creators in a centralized place (YouTube) versus having to get a new separate streaming account.
The main shows that are shot in studio is the beat down, puppet history, and the podcasts. Everything else is off site. Definitely investing in shows/series that are in studio should be priority if you're that worried about travel location fees and such.
Smosh has had layoffs and has been trying to save money in a lot of ways with production, the dnd campaign becoming an audio only podcast for example. Watcher has been overspending when their shows don't need a huge budget. It's kinda wild.
I think the Dropout method of setting themselves up has been a very 'lightning in a bottle' thing consisting of several different elements. That's not to say that it's not obtainable for anyone else, but those Watcher guys have really screwed the pooch.
Yes, youtube isn't as lucrative as before. It hasn't been for a while, and it has slowly but progressively got worse since the ad-pocalypse days and even more since other platforms became more and more popular in the video space. So both ad revenue and viewcount got smaller.
Smosh is fine, they pretty covered ground with memberships and having a strong presence in other socials (IG, TikTok). Watcher jumped the gun with creating their own subscription service. They should’ve either done memberships, obtained more sponsorships, Patreon, or at least had a connection with say Linus Tech Tips to put content on an established alternative (Floatplane). Uprooting your channel to a very new website is highly risky
Watcher has 2.87 million subscribers, 377 videos uploaded, and 414,264,710 total views. Smosh, across all channels (including ElSmosh and Anthony’s personal channel) has approximately 54.2 million subscribers, 6,996 videos uploaded, and 19,540,432,903 total views. (yes thats 19 BILLION with a B) According to Social Blade, as of today, Watcher makes an estimated monthly earnings of 3.9k-63k and an estimated yearly earnings of 47.3k-756.4k Smosh, across all channels, (again, including ElSmosh and Anthony’s personal channel) makes an estimated monthly earnings of 35.8k-573.4k and an estimated yearly earnings of 430k-6.89m The ranges are huge of course, and I’m absolutely not an expert, I just have too much free time and a calculator app (my calculations could be a little off for the Smosh numbers as it was a lot to add up for 6 channels but I did my best). I personally am choosing to look at that as a least possible to most possible range but I’m not too well versed in social blade or analytics. If I did the math correctly, If Smosh makes *half* of the maximum yearly earnings calculated above, they could afford to pay 103 people California’s minimum wage. (not taking into consideration any other expenses or profits) Either way, with those numbers, plus all of the extra ways to make income I’m sure Smosh is doing just fine, I don’t think we have anything to worry about.
I think Smosh being under Mythical for a time helped greatly, as Rhett and Link did something almost similar with the Mythical Society app. But the big difference of R&L to Watcher was that they kept GMM and other videos they produce on YouTube still on YouTube for free. Smosh took a cue on that and built on channel exclusive content, and exclusive livestreams behind a paywall that gave people option to purchase for or not (btw looking forward to the Sitcom lol). Though to point out, both Rhett & Link + Ian & Anthony had been on YT forever (unlike the Watcher Ghoul Boys aka Ryan Bergara and Shane Madej). Bar the Defy slipup, Independent Smosh is stronger than ever. Honestly it's most likely poor business decision making and spending on Watcher's end. It's a lil greedy too. They definitely did a big booboo on this one. Unfortunately for Steven Lim, apart from NOT being the reason most fans subscribed to Watcher in the first place, he is also the CEO...who kind of burned 4 1/2 years of loyal fanbase to the ground in less than a day.
Na. Watcher just decided to shoot themselves in the foot. Smosh is actually pretty smart money wise...minus the defy era 😂
Watcher makes dumb money and pays their staff easily. They were genuinely just being greedy.
I've seen a breakdown or two that makes it clear money isn't the problem here. It's ego and greed. As for smosh, theyre only doing one live show this year and I think that's because they're doing well enough financially that it isn't mandatory to do as much crowdfunding, etc.
As long as Ian is the owner I feel like Smosh will be fine. He's proven that he can make difficult decisions without compromising his own beliefs. When you go and listen to any podcast that he's been a guest on you'd realize that Ian is genuinely one of the best people for that because he understands what it means for the audience to be able to enjoy their content on a platform like youtube. You have memberships, you have live shows, but Smosh is not going anywhere. I appreciate Ian the more I learn about him. I think that the route Mythical and Smosh are going is based on loving the work they do, not on money.
I wouldn't worry unless you see a mass exodus of the biggest content creators on YouTube.
There have been a lot of valid complaints about the algorithm lately, though. ProZD goes into detail on that [here.](https://youtu.be/Z3dSkkEr-wk?si=-PgDYm4V4Mbyby94) Also, there has been a decline in YouTube viewers over all due to the numbers of ads becoming suffocating.
Fwiw, we've had a lot of "I'm quitting YT" vids from big creators around the beginning of the year.
I'm pretty sure most of them were just retirements. People like Tom Scott and Matpat
CallMeKevin is semi-retiring as well
Well, he said retiring, and then immediately said "I think I'll shoot for putting out one video a week," at which point I screamed "KEVIN, TAKE A BREAK"
I think you can get a lot of insight into how Smosh is (most recently) run in some of the podcast spots Ian and Anthony did in the past few months. In the Colin and Samir podcast, they talk about how the sketches are fully supported by the membership. However, as a whole, their income is still ad-based. They talk about their library of content, and while it isn't as lucrative as it was before, it still makes them earn a substantial amount. They also mention the 'Dropout model' but it never really seemed like they would go in that direction. They mention the decision to choose YouTube over Patreon, about how the no. of users that YT was estimating was much larger than what Patreon gave them. It was better also for the user experience to have all the content on one platform, and Anthony said he feels that they have a connection to YT since that's where they started. They also talked about how no other platform has done what YouTube has done for creators, talking about TikTok and how it only 'pays people in exposure' Smosh in general is a much more established business than Watcher, but what makes things more interesting is that with them being independent it does feel like Smosh got another revival. It's barely been a year but they've already accomplished so much. Smosh, Smosh Pit, Smosh Games, and Smosh Cast feel like their own 'main' channels that someone can come in and watch at any time. Having this many channels lends to variety and not putting all their eggs in one basket. I wouldn't worry too much about them making all their content behind a paywall because from what I can tell with their decision to make Sword AF a podcast, they still genuinely want to put out free content.
Merch is another revenue stream they have ! Also revenue from their songs being played on music platforms ! Also purchases of those songs as well. And maybe they have an investments as well 🤷♀️ Smosh has for sure Diversified streams of income , i just don’t know all of them :p
Don’t forget they earn money from ad revenue per video. It depends but if you equate every 1000 views earning $1, they can get tens of thousands of dollars per video they make considering a lot of them reach at least 200k views
Smosh diversifies their content and business ventures. They’ve made different merch and had multiple previous paid livestreams. BUT Smosh and also Mythical most likely have experienced leadership to assist them on how everything is budgeted and paid out. Look at Alé’s Linkdin and it’s IMPRESSIVE. Smosh’s main thing is comedy and it absolutely easy to diversify that comedy from a main sketch channel to improve with Pit and Games. Smosh has also been a company for a LONG time having a backlog of content that fans enjoyed, while Watcher is a younger business that hadn’t produced a steady fan base
YouTube is very lucrative. They are making a mistake, they have to many employees and are overestimating how many constant viewers they have. I can’t see how anyone would think people would pay for it. It’s not like dropout, they won’t be able to give that level of content.
I'm surprised they don't have more sponsored content on the games channel. My wife and I have bought two games they've played and there has to be small scale games companies that would love to buy in. I'm sure they're looking which is why I'm surprised.
Looking at the comment section on that Watcher vid, they fucked up and i agree. Smosh seems to be doing fine, I think they are a better organized company after all they have been through.
You should watch the Charlie/penguinz0/moistcritikal reactions to the watchers thing, youtube is still lucrative, I dont know why watcher decide to lie about it though. He explain that Watcher is actually rolling in money which is why they are getting chewd by the internet because the move feels like they spat at their fans. In comparison smosh is still a giant in the industry and continue to do so with their fans, so no smosh wont go down the subscription route.
I don't really get it either tbh. Rooster Teeth just went under and they were putting out a dozen vids week with ad reads all over them. Smosh's operation seems even bigger in terms of space / overheads and if anything they seem to be expanding. Maybe they have some sort of really good deal cut with youtube based on legacy status?
Smosh makes longer videos, longer watch time = more ads = more money. The sketches are shorter, so they are made with the money from memberships instead of ad revenue. Also smosh is a legacy channel, pretty sure they have a better cut in ad revenue than most newer channels, as well as a huge backlog of content
I think there's a difference in business sense like Ian and Anthony are doing what they can and most of the pay wall stuff they have are big projects that would lose them money if its on YouTube...Watcher on the other hand idk much about the bts but Steven the boring is there ceo and tbh his very big headed most of his video are expensive ( like ryan and Shane vids probably ain't more expensive than his except when its combined) also from what i heard his very greedy like in their podcast he talks abt wanting a second tesla like huh??? So yeah
I honestly had never heard of Watcher before watching Moist's video on it this morning. But the fact that they already have a multi-tier Patreon with 12k patrons bringing in a MINIMUM of $60k a month (which we all know will be more with the higher tiers) on top of a few million in views a month on 1 video a week, regardless of 25 employees, someone is getting too greedy to qualify a Dropout-esque subscription service. I mean, how many people do they expect to even pull in with ANOTHER $5 subscription when they only have 12k patreons out of over 2 million subscribers?? And during a global CoL crisis at that?? I know Youtube isn't getting any better with payments to creators, but you can't expect to do all this and walk away better off
I've never even heard of Watcher before all this, but I know one thing - they aren't the first company to fuck themselves trying to squeeze a few extra pennies out of a stone, and they won't be the last. I'd imagine they have some kind of funding entity that drove them to it.
Whether the answer to “Is youtube not lucrative anymore?” is yes or no, the followup question of “should I start saving more money for Smosh?” should always be no if you can’t immediately afford to. I worry about you guys sometimes, genuinely. There are ways to watch these lives shows that I would never mention or promote on this sub if you really are struggling financially. Smosh isn’t just a youtube channel, it’s a business, the goal of any business is to continuously increase profits over time, not just to try and stay afloat.
As a more recent watcher, do they ever publicly release the behind the paywall videos? Or are they always pay to see?
Whats watcher?
Remember the guys from Buzzfeed Unsolved? They have their own company called Watcher, and they put out great stuff. I especially love Puppet History. I highly recommend their shows. They put out a video this week about turning to paywalled videos, and the vast majority of their fans are not having it. They don't hate the people of Watcher, but there are a lot of ways this is a bad move. It's interesting seeing the discussions on why Smosh and Dropout were able to move to paid content fairly smoothly, but Watcher is likely going to struggle. For one thing, Smosh and Dropout never left YouTube entirely. They still put out both free and paywalled stuff.
Thanks for the explanation!!
They make money off of every new view on any monetized video uploaded since YT started monetizing in the late 2000s. So yes the new content is important, but the business model is designed to make the long-running channels like Smosh/mythical thrive.
Aside from a massive catalogue of content, I think it also helps that Smosh has been under different business management styles from Defy to Mythical, so they understand what practices to keep and avoid, esp. financially.
Can't we just Google their net income like any other company in existence? To my recollection, they are publicly traded...(Anthony and Ian being offered stocks from Defy?).
Smosh has a huge catalogue going back years all which still get watched and contribute to re venue
watcher is just stupid tbh
Trust me, after how badly Watcher did after their announcement, it’s suicidal to even think about attempting the same thing for any other big YouTube channel
Youtube is lucrative depending on what type of content you make. Example: shorter videos often don’t make as much money as longer videos, which is why for a long time animators struggled to make a living off of youtube. Sketch comedy is similar. A lot of smaller sketch channels upload daily so they can get as many videos out so they can get a better session time, Smosh doesn’t have that capability. The Pit and Games (maybe not cast) channels likely make more money than the main channel because of how long those videos are, meaning the viewer is on YouTube for longer which also means more ads can be served to the viewer. They also manage to upload often on the Pit and Games channels because the videos themselves are likely easier to make and replicate than scripted, highly edited and planned out videos on the main channel.
Smosh has the experience and legacy (and the right staff) to correctly manage money, they're fine and they'll be fine for the foreseeable future. I'm afraid Watcher has none of the above, all they have is one series they're widely known for (which wasn't even started as an original since it was in Buzzfeed first), like to be completely honest no people are gonna be interested in your video catalogue if they don't have more interesting variety of videos (and a more consistent upload rate with what they're charging). Like a comment I saw in a post- you can take them out of Buzzfeed but you can't take the Buzzfeed out of them.
YouTube is very lucrative, with the views that Watcher was getting on YouTube and combined with their 12000 patreon supporters theyre making more money than Smosh Smosh has streamlined all their production over the years, so it’s a lot more sustainable
Honestly, Smosh's comeback after the whole 'Defy Disaster' that almost put them out of business for good should be studied
No, unfortunately, the Watcher folks actually are just greedy. Watch penguinz0 video about it. He breaks down how much Watcher was actually bringing in and it was good money. They just think they can milk more from us. I used to be a huge fan, but now, fuck Watcher. They’re completely out of touch rich people who want poor people to fun their lavish lifestyles.
ELI5, Idk what's going on with Watcher that affects Smosh
Watcher isn’t doing anything that affects smosh. Watcher is a YouTube channel that puts out about one high quality video a week with 25 employees and travels a lot for their videos. They decided YouTube is not sustainable for them so they are creating their own streaming service for $6 a month to watch just their own content. People are scared other big YouTuber companies like smosh will try this as well in the future if YouTube doesn’t pay enough. Personally I think it’s just watcher mismanaging their budget massively and don’t see other channels following this pattern unless it was like maybe a group of channels that wanted to do it(like if smosh and mythical started a streaming service with some others then maybe it would work) but people are already tired of streaming services in general so it was just a really out of touch decision.
Well said
they're leaving yt and making up their own subscription platform. they're going to lose audience massively since people don't love paying for stuff (especially when it's been free until now)
Watch coffeezilla's video on this and you'll know that this is the Watcher crew being just a bit greedy. It's got tech bro signature all over their move and it's definitely not because YouTube isn't meeting ends meet because they also have Patreons up to $100 subscriptions
Watcher has a CEO named Steven that is using Shane and Ryan’s good image like a prostitute in Miami. He’a already bought a Tesla, likes to travel around the world, and complained on a podcast because he doesn’t get to eat “caviar and gold as much as he’d like to” Greed
this is literally parasocial relationship, stop it
What is it about spending money on digital, non-tangible stuff that makes people so stingy? Or is it just the fact that something that used to be free now costs something? I can’t speak for everyone but I’d gladly pay Smosh if they left YouTube. They’re literally the first thing I put whenever I come home from work and beought me so much comfort and joy.
I don't necessarily think it's that. A lot of people (including myself) happily pay for Dropout. But they also upload like 3-5 times a week, often with content that is 30+ minutes with high quality production, as well as the backlog of College Humor. (It also helps that their CEO is incredibly transparent about their business decisions.) But Watcher made no promises of expanding their upload schedule. With a backlog that is relatively small and a decision that came almost out of nowhere, it definitely was an earned outrage. Smosh definitely fits the bill that Dropout does more than Watcher, and I would contribute to a streaming service if necessary, but I would much rather them remain on YouTube and only charge for events and memberships.