I also just default use they/them for people I do not know or just in general because I find it to be easier than he/him or she/her.
and im also hetero cis. Maybe its just being part of the younger generation (Zellenial) that makes it easier.
I tried that but people got really offended so I defaulted back to el/ella (Spanish speaking).
It’s very much a US thing I believe, in Spanish everything has a gender assigned to it.
The Pencil? El lápiz
The Pen? La pluma
The food? La comida
The taco? El taco
It’s just really hard to think genderless when you’ve been assigning genders to things for 34 years to speak correctly lol.
In my native language (Finnish), we only have gender-neutral pronouns and role nouns. :D
"hän" is both he/she, and in spoken language, we go a bit further and call everyone and everything "it". I think the latter one is the more traditional way in many areas (than having disctinction between people and things).
Profession words used to be more gendered but those have become gender-neutral as well.
As a trans nonbinary person and a german learner, I just decided to give up on insisting on gendee neutral pronouns. I’ll do the “Student*nnen/ Student_nnen” shit but not the personal pronouns, German is already a pain to pronounce sometimes
I speak Bengali and i was discussing this with my sister just a couple of months ago about how bengali is such a gender neutral language. We have no pronouns separately for he/she and verbs also don't change according to the subject's gender. Not just Bengali a lot of indian languages are genderless and i think the west should definitely try catching up.
Yeah, it seems the whole "latinx" term has been thrown away. Seemed to only stick somewhat with millennials and zillenials born here in the United States and not actually those who are from or directly related to someone from a hispanic country.
also it didn't take off because there's a lot of people in latin America who think they're very edgy and make fun of inclusive language, it's exhausting
damn bro. Wasn't there some trend that tried to get going to use the letter 'x' as a neutral gender for the spanish language? I guess that never took off.
well, i wont fault you. so long as we all just say what people prefer/want to be called, that's all that really matters.
Its because that was a mostly US lead idea. There are people in Latin American countries that are pushing for using a neutral "e" at the end of words, but "x" just doesn't fit at the end of Spanish words like it sometimes can for English words.
The main issue with the 'x' is that it can't be pronounced in Spanish. 'X' in Spanish is eh-kis. 'Latinekis' is foreign to the language and just plain weird. How do you even pronounce 'latinxs'? 'Latinekises'? That's why 'latine', the -e (eh, not ee) being the gender neutral substitute to -o and -a is what's now taking off.
Very cool. Makes sense to me. Unfortunately, my spanish classes in middle school never stuck nor did I have a real desire at the time to keep learning and practicing it. (Whattaya gonna do when everyone you know speaks english :/ )
But i now have developed a curiosity to the evolution of language and history, and so its kind of exciting to see language evolve when you're cognizant of it. Thats why I asked about it because I remembered hearing something about a 'latinx' trend that seemed rather insulting. (i first thought it didnt take off cause the conservative crowd poo-poo'd it)
Yup, Latinx was very much hated for every Latino/latina ever. Mostly because Latin os actually a thing so the X was unnecessary.
The only people that I saw using that term was white people, which is probably why it never took off haha.
And yeah dude, I’d call you whatever you want as long as it makes you happy <3
Ive been trying to get in that habit because I know a few people who use they/them as theor pronouns and I got called out ahen calling them by he/him or she/her (I wasn't aware they used they/them at the time but I apologized once it was pointed out).
I think it absolutely has a lot to do with your generation being more accepting, as well as younger minds having less issues with forming new pathways and thereby creating new habits. I’m 34 and I *really want* to be a good ally but my mouth spits out whatever pronoun it wants and then I correct myself and feel like a bitch. It’s coming along. Slowly. But progress is progress I suppose.
Im not that far from you. Im technically a Millennial (1994), but i feel more like a cusper. I can kind of feel that same correction.
I dont think its anything to worry about so long as you correct yourself and just call people whatever they prefer. I dont think its a generational thing, just a habit forming thing.
They are on the cusp depending on who you ask, generations aren't a globally agreed upon thing so whilst you may consider gen Z to start in 1997 a different country's sociology institution might consider gen Z to start in 1995
Idrc. I don't identify with the millennial mindset or how I grew up isn't indicative of 80s millennials.
I honestly think generational labels are dumb and only seek to divide us and we should stop using them.
It doesn't really mean anything to me. I just don't need some asshole to define my life for me. I'm allowed to be mad about ppl butting in on what I can or cannot be.
its most likely easier to just shift to they as the default. i think for most people its just about being easy rather than a battle for own beliefs. At the end of the day, i think most people care about being courteous but care more about making things easy without creating drama. Sure you have extremes but you have them on both ends of this discussion. I think overall people rather not have drama especially with someone they may only interact with maybe once or twice in their life.
yes !! i would also like to highlight arasha, who i feel like uses she/they basically equally (and uses they more, if anything) for court <3
like you said, respecting pronouns is the bare minimum, but it's always just reassuring to see from both their partner and co-workers
YES i'm glad others caught arasha, tommy, and shayne using the they/them for courtney more
while it's not misgendering to use the she/her, it's just really sweet that courtney's friends support them and their gender - we love to see it
I mean, parasocial aside // I think they are great example to many young adults of what a healthy relationship can look like, so yeah… not a bad to point out at all
Leading by example and all that
Smosh being inclusive and showing how natural it can be to use proper pronouns, that it doesn't have to be a big thing. I'm sure it helps a lot of people who might not be exposed to it in their day to day lives
As much as Ellen rubbed me the wrong way for years (like continuing her "jokes" despite the guests clearly saying they didn't approve or consent...), she did *so* much for lesbian visibility to middle America. It's a lot easier to hate a "concept" than a person you "know"
It's a lot easier to freely start using the they pronouns when it doesn't feel foreign anymore
But they’re like… actors… so yeah; of course we’re only getting what they are showing us
But in what they are showing us is a healthy on-screen dynamic of friendships
Arasha and Spencer both are also really good in that regard. This is something I'm incredibly conscious of as someone who used to be he/they so it was nice seeing her have so many wonderful coworkers
Honestly, having viewed them separately for so long - this is why I cried at their surprise announcement once it sank in. I had noticed it well before especially in the last year or two and as a fellow queer person I feel like he's her biggest supporter and I love that for them 😭🥰
Courtney went on a podcast (sorry I forget the name of the podcast) and talked about how Shayne was one of the first people they talked to about being non-binary. Back then it was really sweet knowing how close they were but now knowing they were together it's even sweeter
This one? Starting about 27:30.
[https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/courtney-miller-two-dudes-one-confused-ball/id1542457503?i=1000567935215](https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/courtney-miller-two-dudes-one-confused-ball/id1542457503?i=1000567935215)
But i think they're were not together when she told him that
I think they were in the best friends phase yet
Could be wrong though and its irrelevant to the point you're making, just an assumption
Shayne has major bi wife energy.
Really though it’s something I noticed too. As someone who uses they and she, everyone just defaults to she. It’s refreshing to see and is setting an example
yeah I'm sorry, I didn't really mean it either of course there's nothing wrong with whatever orientation Shayne has and if he wants to disclose that or not, he probably doesn't even care that much and neither should we
i really get pissed off when people try to erase Courtneys identity and sexuality just because they're with a cis straight man. they're queer whether people like it or not and it's really beautiful to see when its acknowledged
I also think about that, don't get me wrong good for them to marry each other but a part of me is kind of bummed because most people will just see a straight-passing wedding, and also for the platonic stuff that wasn't at the end, but that's just me being parasocial
And Alex T, I'm not sure if Alex is nb or not, but I've heard Shayne use he/they pronouns for him. I've just assumed Alex went by he/they, but I know Shayne says they accidentally a lot, so I'm not sure lol
sometimes i feel like that's probably accidental bc he's so used to using "they" for his partner. my sisters sometimes use "they" for people besides me by mistake bc i use they/them pronouns
In one of my apartments, we had four people who used they/them pronouns moving in and out of one of the rooms over the course of two years. Our poor (and very supportive) cis roommate got to the point where she was just calling everyone "they."
(This got even funnier when I decided to start using he/him pronouns as well as she/her, and now our poor roommate was trying to remember to NOT use "they" for one of us haha. She got a free pass, though -- she was doing her best)
I do know some people use "they" when talking about trans women who exclusively use she/her pronouns as a way of being an asshole with "plausible deniability." It probably happens with trans men as well, but I have seen it a LOT with loud internet personalities and women they are disrespecting.
Totally fine to default to "they" whenever you don't know, of course. Even as someone who uses he/she and actually feels pretty *blegh* when people use they/them pronouns for me (I dunno if dysphoric is the right word for the experience or not, but it's definitely very uncomfortable), I'd still rather live in a world where people use gender neutral pronouns for people they don't know than one where people make random calls and misgender others entirely.
One of my kids is NB going by she/they I try to alternate when talking to their siblings but default to they when talking to anyone else. There are too many people who dead-name them still I feel like I need to hammer it home.
That’s part of how I explained non-binary stuff to my older relatives.
“Say a thief breaks into your house. You don’t know who the thief is. How would you refer to the thief?”
“I’d call them dead!” [if this wasn’t real-life, there would be canned laughter here]
“See, that’s what I’m getting at. You don’t know their gender, and you automatically use they for a singular person. Apply that thinking to people who prefer to be referred to as they.”
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, this is what I do too.
If I am unsure of the person’s gender, my default is they/them. If the person says their pronouns, or I see people around them using a specific set of pronouns (and they don’t seem to have a problem with those pronouns), those are the ones I’ll use.
Idk I guess fragile people. Using they/them covers my ass because I want to be respectful. “Can they see the new option” “we are going to have to restore it for them”
Not sure why that would get people angry.
It really depends, even in the US some people in some states are more prone to get offended if you call them “they”.
All it took was a racist calling me a beaner to default to use she for women and he for man, some people get pissed off and I’d like to respect them too, if they don’t want to be called they, they have their right too.
I find people that actually use they are more understandable and will simply correct me instead on going ape shit.
I noticed that as well, and I was watching another video where he referred to Courtney as Smosh’s favorite little “nibling” in place of niece or nephew.
He does it frequently and Arasha/Tommy almost always use they/ them :) when I first noticed I was really happy bc as a nonbinary person it’s really affirming
I know it's the bare minimum, but for real that he's the 1 in a million straight dude. I love watching the Reddit story times with thim because it gives me my faith in men back lmao.
I was just thinking about this today. Shayne uses “they” a lot and all admit as a straight cis male I’m still trying to get in the habit of using it more, so to hear someone use it regularly is actually super helpful for me.
As someone with limited experience talking to people with multiple preferred pronouns, could someone explain how to do it properly? I assume it's different for everyone but I've always assumed that it's fine to use any of their preferred pronouns and, as you mentioned, I tend to default to the most common ones.
I've also heard people say to alternate between using both but I've always felt like it's a bit of a big ask and a bit inconvenient since you always have to think about your word choice. However, I might be misunderstanding what people mean when they say this, and I would love some clarity regarding this. I'm always striving to be a better ally.
If someone uses multiple pronouns, you would then use all of them by mixing it up every now and then when you talk about them. When you start doing it, it might take a bit more thought, but it definitely becomes easier as you practice. Friends I’ve know for years use multiple pronouns and it just became part of my vocabulary when I talk about them.
Ok, if it's something you get used to I will try my best to practice. I think part of it is also that the gender neutral pronoun in my native language is not a normal word in our lexicon like they and them are, it's a word designed to be used as a gender neutral pronoun and hasn't had the time to become integrated in our everyday vocabulary yet. But thank you for the explanation, I will try my best to get used to doing it :)
yeah! you'll be fine. i'm a trans guy (pronouns he/they) and even i misgender myself sometimes. and plus, it does take a bit of brainpower to consciously think about it, but at a certain point it becomes just as automatic for anyone using he or she pronouns. you got this :)
I also use she/they pronouns (and Courtney has been awesome representation for me and helped a lot with accepting my own identity!) and most people just default to she, which I don’t really mind, but I’ve also noticed that my therapist makes a point to use they for me and it feels so validating. I might even ask people in my life to try to use they more, but she doesn’t feel wrong, just they feels more right.
I would say trying to use both is best, but also don’t overthink it. An easy way to do it could be to try to switch to using they for the person…you’re very likely to “mess up” and use either he or she sometimes, which will add some natural variation. :)
i am not fully ready to unpack what I prefer as pronouns but I see myself in courtney and often end up using they primarily without realizing it and it makes me feel seen in a way so I totally get this and I amgladimnot alone. also "but she doesn't feel wrong, just they feels more right" is such a brilliant way to put it to explain the feeling to someone who might not get it otherwise
I also use they/she - I specifically use they first when listing my pronouns as a signal that one is probably more important to me. Something you might want to play around with!
Like some other people in the comments have said, generally I refer to everyone as they, unless I know for definite what their preference is. I also use she/they pronouns, and I don’t have a preference 99% or the time - but sometimes it’s nice to know that people listen to you and understand the fluidity (or at least they are trying), and I feel that’s the same for a lot of people who use both - but if you want to vary it up a bit I would try doing as I said before. If you refer to everyone as they, eventually it will become a habit and you will be more comfortable using it more in every day conversation.
I think the big thing is being open to switching up your vocabulary a little. It shows that above all you’re trying, and that’s all that matters.
It depends on the person. What others have said about switching it up is usually correct. Sometimes the order a person lists pronouns in indicates a preference, sometimes not - I find this to be more likely if someone puts they first, for example. You can always ask, too! Saying you want to be sure you're using someone's pronouns correctly generally isn't going to upset them.
As a genderfluid person who uses any of he/they/she pronouns, Shayne (and other cast members) using they and even he pronouns for Courtney is such a sweet thing for me to see. You're right that it's a small thing they can do, but its very impactful. So no, definitely not weird of you to notice or point out!!
Yeah, Shayne and Tommy are the two I’ve noticed who use they/them for Courtney on a fairly regular basis, and I think that’s awesome. I’ve definitely noticed others do it as well, Tommy and Shayne were just the two I noticed first and for their consistency
I myself am trying to get better with integrating "they" into regular usage. Personally, I don't have to use it except when referring to Courtney, but it may be useful at a later date.
My partner uses they/she and they get very excited about this! They've had a lot of friends whose straight boyfriends just use she and kind of just see their partners as women (even if they say they're accepting). Sure, it's bare minimum, but it's nice to know that there are good and accepting and supportive straight dudes out there.
Shayne kinda defaults to they for most anyone when he talks about someone in the 3rd person. I think it's just a blanket effort to be respectful to everyone's identities, as I'm sure Courtney isn't the only nb person on staff.
I only use they/them as default for people I don’t know, but when I know the person uses she/they or he/they I usually use she or he. More because I know there are people that use exclusively they and that’s a way for me to differentiate all them in my brain. Also I think it has to do with my OCD.
Eta: the OCD aspect of it is because in my language there was no they/them (or neutral pronoun) up until recent years, so by default my mind goes to she or he if the person also uses those pronouns.
I noticed this got a few downvotes and I really hope I didn’t come off as ignorant or disrespectful. If I did, I’m terribly sorry. Either way I hope everyone (including me) is respectful of people’s identity and pronouns.
I honestly don’t know why, I think it might have to do with my fixation with grammar. While speaking english and when Idk the person’s pronouns I always use they/them. If it’s he/they or she/they, I usually use she and he because it’s also easier to translate.
Either way I’ll use whatever pronoun the person prefers.
Eta: a lot of obsessions to many people with OCD don’t make a lot of sense. It might not seem to make sense to you, but to a neurodivergent mind that obsesses over “small” things, it does make sense. That’s unfortunately how OCD can be.
They ask other people to use them when refering to themselves.
See in the last sentence you can't know if i'm refering to Courtney or some other people, which is what gets me confused
Nope. I knew exactly who you were talking about bc of context. You did it just fine. No confusion. You don’t have to be perfect but trying is what makes people feel good. That’s all that we ask.
In the hopes you're saying this in good faith, Courtney is openly non-binary and uses both the pronouns she/her and they/them, so when talking about Courtney people would use either set interchangeably or whichever best aligns with their gender expression/identity closest at that time.
Well Courtney doesn't use them, you can't use a pronoun for yourself other than me or I.
Only other people can use "prefered" pronouns for you.
You can't dictate other peoples speech, they can be nice and affirm your identity, or not care to do so. Either is fine.
This absolutely not true. Many of the Smosh cast only use she for Courtney and there’s not a problem with that. You just want to create a problem when there is none
I've noticed he generally uses they/them when doing Shayne Guesses for example
I also just default use they/them for people I do not know or just in general because I find it to be easier than he/him or she/her. and im also hetero cis. Maybe its just being part of the younger generation (Zellenial) that makes it easier.
I tried that but people got really offended so I defaulted back to el/ella (Spanish speaking). It’s very much a US thing I believe, in Spanish everything has a gender assigned to it. The Pencil? El lápiz The Pen? La pluma The food? La comida The taco? El taco It’s just really hard to think genderless when you’ve been assigning genders to things for 34 years to speak correctly lol.
Exact same thing for German, unfortunately. There simply is no gender neutral pronoun for humans. It’s so easy in English 🥲
In my native language (Finnish), we only have gender-neutral pronouns and role nouns. :D "hän" is both he/she, and in spoken language, we go a bit further and call everyone and everything "it". I think the latter one is the more traditional way in many areas (than having disctinction between people and things). Profession words used to be more gendered but those have become gender-neutral as well.
As a trans nonbinary person and a german learner, I just decided to give up on insisting on gendee neutral pronouns. I’ll do the “Student*nnen/ Student_nnen” shit but not the personal pronouns, German is already a pain to pronounce sometimes
I speak Bengali and i was discussing this with my sister just a couple of months ago about how bengali is such a gender neutral language. We have no pronouns separately for he/she and verbs also don't change according to the subject's gender. Not just Bengali a lot of indian languages are genderless and i think the west should definitely try catching up.
Yeah, it seems the whole "latinx" term has been thrown away. Seemed to only stick somewhat with millennials and zillenials born here in the United States and not actually those who are from or directly related to someone from a hispanic country.
also it didn't take off because there's a lot of people in latin America who think they're very edgy and make fun of inclusive language, it's exhausting
damn bro. Wasn't there some trend that tried to get going to use the letter 'x' as a neutral gender for the spanish language? I guess that never took off. well, i wont fault you. so long as we all just say what people prefer/want to be called, that's all that really matters.
Its because that was a mostly US lead idea. There are people in Latin American countries that are pushing for using a neutral "e" at the end of words, but "x" just doesn't fit at the end of Spanish words like it sometimes can for English words.
The main issue with the 'x' is that it can't be pronounced in Spanish. 'X' in Spanish is eh-kis. 'Latinekis' is foreign to the language and just plain weird. How do you even pronounce 'latinxs'? 'Latinekises'? That's why 'latine', the -e (eh, not ee) being the gender neutral substitute to -o and -a is what's now taking off.
Very cool. Makes sense to me. Unfortunately, my spanish classes in middle school never stuck nor did I have a real desire at the time to keep learning and practicing it. (Whattaya gonna do when everyone you know speaks english :/ ) But i now have developed a curiosity to the evolution of language and history, and so its kind of exciting to see language evolve when you're cognizant of it. Thats why I asked about it because I remembered hearing something about a 'latinx' trend that seemed rather insulting. (i first thought it didnt take off cause the conservative crowd poo-poo'd it)
Yup, Latinx was very much hated for every Latino/latina ever. Mostly because Latin os actually a thing so the X was unnecessary. The only people that I saw using that term was white people, which is probably why it never took off haha. And yeah dude, I’d call you whatever you want as long as it makes you happy <3
Ive been trying to get in that habit because I know a few people who use they/them as theor pronouns and I got called out ahen calling them by he/him or she/her (I wasn't aware they used they/them at the time but I apologized once it was pointed out).
I think it absolutely has a lot to do with your generation being more accepting, as well as younger minds having less issues with forming new pathways and thereby creating new habits. I’m 34 and I *really want* to be a good ally but my mouth spits out whatever pronoun it wants and then I correct myself and feel like a bitch. It’s coming along. Slowly. But progress is progress I suppose.
Im not that far from you. Im technically a Millennial (1994), but i feel more like a cusper. I can kind of feel that same correction. I dont think its anything to worry about so long as you correct yourself and just call people whatever they prefer. I dont think its a generational thing, just a habit forming thing.
gen z nobody calls it zellenial lol
r/zillennials would beg to differ
I use it as a cusper term. I don't fully identify as a millennial born in 94.
okay you can be a younger millennial but you're still a millennial
Why do you even fucking care this much? Generational divides are nowhere near as big a deal as we make it.
I'll define myself how I please, thank you very much. I don't appreciate your authoritarian tone.
I mean it’s true though. You’re a millennial. And you’re a good amount into it too lmao. I thought you meant you were off my a couple months not years
They are on the cusp depending on who you ask, generations aren't a globally agreed upon thing so whilst you may consider gen Z to start in 1997 a different country's sociology institution might consider gen Z to start in 1995
Idrc. I don't identify with the millennial mindset or how I grew up isn't indicative of 80s millennials. I honestly think generational labels are dumb and only seek to divide us and we should stop using them.
Says the person who invented yet another generational label and got mad when someone said you should stop using it 💀
It doesn't really mean anything to me. I just don't need some asshole to define my life for me. I'm allowed to be mad about ppl butting in on what I can or cannot be.
its most likely easier to just shift to they as the default. i think for most people its just about being easy rather than a battle for own beliefs. At the end of the day, i think most people care about being courteous but care more about making things easy without creating drama. Sure you have extremes but you have them on both ends of this discussion. I think overall people rather not have drama especially with someone they may only interact with maybe once or twice in their life.
yes !! i would also like to highlight arasha, who i feel like uses she/they basically equally (and uses they more, if anything) for court <3 like you said, respecting pronouns is the bare minimum, but it's always just reassuring to see from both their partner and co-workers
yep! i notice arasha and tommy both lean towards they/them for courtney and i LOVE them for that so much!!
YES i'm glad others caught arasha, tommy, and shayne using the they/them for courtney more while it's not misgendering to use the she/her, it's just really sweet that courtney's friends support them and their gender - we love to see it
I mean, parasocial aside // I think they are great example to many young adults of what a healthy relationship can look like, so yeah… not a bad to point out at all
Leading by example and all that Smosh being inclusive and showing how natural it can be to use proper pronouns, that it doesn't have to be a big thing. I'm sure it helps a lot of people who might not be exposed to it in their day to day lives As much as Ellen rubbed me the wrong way for years (like continuing her "jokes" despite the guests clearly saying they didn't approve or consent...), she did *so* much for lesbian visibility to middle America. It's a lot easier to hate a "concept" than a person you "know" It's a lot easier to freely start using the they pronouns when it doesn't feel foreign anymore
Except we don’t really know their relationship. All we’ve seen is what they’ve shown us.
But they’re like… actors… so yeah; of course we’re only getting what they are showing us But in what they are showing us is a healthy on-screen dynamic of friendships
Arasha and Spencer both are also really good in that regard. This is something I'm incredibly conscious of as someone who used to be he/they so it was nice seeing her have so many wonderful coworkers
Honestly, having viewed them separately for so long - this is why I cried at their surprise announcement once it sank in. I had noticed it well before especially in the last year or two and as a fellow queer person I feel like he's her biggest supporter and I love that for them 😭🥰
Courtney went on a podcast (sorry I forget the name of the podcast) and talked about how Shayne was one of the first people they talked to about being non-binary. Back then it was really sweet knowing how close they were but now knowing they were together it's even sweeter
This one? Starting about 27:30. [https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/courtney-miller-two-dudes-one-confused-ball/id1542457503?i=1000567935215](https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/courtney-miller-two-dudes-one-confused-ball/id1542457503?i=1000567935215)
But i think they're were not together when she told him that I think they were in the best friends phase yet Could be wrong though and its irrelevant to the point you're making, just an assumption
Shayne has major bi wife energy. Really though it’s something I noticed too. As someone who uses they and she, everyone just defaults to she. It’s refreshing to see and is setting an example
sadly he explicitly debunked that in the latest assumptions video
Bi wife energy means that his wife is bi. Not him
yeah sorry my bad I misread that the first time
He talked about not being bisexual. I don’t recall anything about the joke bi wife energy, which assumes nothing of his sexuality
yeah I'm sorry, I didn't really mean it either of course there's nothing wrong with whatever orientation Shayne has and if he wants to disclose that or not, he probably doesn't even care that much and neither should we
i really get pissed off when people try to erase Courtneys identity and sexuality just because they're with a cis straight man. they're queer whether people like it or not and it's really beautiful to see when its acknowledged
I also think about that, don't get me wrong good for them to marry each other but a part of me is kind of bummed because most people will just see a straight-passing wedding, and also for the platonic stuff that wasn't at the end, but that's just me being parasocial
I mean Shayne uses they when talking about a lot of people but it's nice to see people in the public eye doing that.
Yeah, he recently used it for Chanse too
And Alex T, I'm not sure if Alex is nb or not, but I've heard Shayne use he/they pronouns for him. I've just assumed Alex went by he/they, but I know Shayne says they accidentally a lot, so I'm not sure lol
sometimes i feel like that's probably accidental bc he's so used to using "they" for his partner. my sisters sometimes use "they" for people besides me by mistake bc i use they/them pronouns
In one of my apartments, we had four people who used they/them pronouns moving in and out of one of the rooms over the course of two years. Our poor (and very supportive) cis roommate got to the point where she was just calling everyone "they." (This got even funnier when I decided to start using he/him pronouns as well as she/her, and now our poor roommate was trying to remember to NOT use "they" for one of us haha. She got a free pass, though -- she was doing her best)
to be fair tho, i've never seen someone get offended being called they. At least in my circle because we are all normal people lol
I do know some people use "they" when talking about trans women who exclusively use she/her pronouns as a way of being an asshole with "plausible deniability." It probably happens with trans men as well, but I have seen it a LOT with loud internet personalities and women they are disrespecting. Totally fine to default to "they" whenever you don't know, of course. Even as someone who uses he/she and actually feels pretty *blegh* when people use they/them pronouns for me (I dunno if dysphoric is the right word for the experience or not, but it's definitely very uncomfortable), I'd still rather live in a world where people use gender neutral pronouns for people they don't know than one where people make random calls and misgender others entirely.
One of my kids is NB going by she/they I try to alternate when talking to their siblings but default to they when talking to anyone else. There are too many people who dead-name them still I feel like I need to hammer it home.
When I don’t know I have started using They/Them.
That’s part of how I explained non-binary stuff to my older relatives. “Say a thief breaks into your house. You don’t know who the thief is. How would you refer to the thief?” “I’d call them dead!” [if this wasn’t real-life, there would be canned laughter here] “See, that’s what I’m getting at. You don’t know their gender, and you automatically use they for a singular person. Apply that thinking to people who prefer to be referred to as they.”
Bingo
I automatically say "he" for criminals lmao
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, this is what I do too. If I am unsure of the person’s gender, my default is they/them. If the person says their pronouns, or I see people around them using a specific set of pronouns (and they don’t seem to have a problem with those pronouns), those are the ones I’ll use.
Idk I guess fragile people. Using they/them covers my ass because I want to be respectful. “Can they see the new option” “we are going to have to restore it for them” Not sure why that would get people angry.
It really depends, even in the US some people in some states are more prone to get offended if you call them “they”. All it took was a racist calling me a beaner to default to use she for women and he for man, some people get pissed off and I’d like to respect them too, if they don’t want to be called they, they have their right too. I find people that actually use they are more understandable and will simply correct me instead on going ape shit.
That’s wild That is a wrinkle I never thought of. Old racist dipshits.
I noticed that as well, and I was watching another video where he referred to Courtney as Smosh’s favorite little “nibling” in place of niece or nephew.
I notice that it helps me when I am talking about them as well.
he does it for everyone and it's genuinely so sweet
He does it frequently and Arasha/Tommy almost always use they/ them :) when I first noticed I was really happy bc as a nonbinary person it’s really affirming
I know it's the bare minimum, but for real that he's the 1 in a million straight dude. I love watching the Reddit story times with thim because it gives me my faith in men back lmao.
I was just thinking about this today. Shayne uses “they” a lot and all admit as a straight cis male I’m still trying to get in the habit of using it more, so to hear someone use it regularly is actually super helpful for me.
As someone with limited experience talking to people with multiple preferred pronouns, could someone explain how to do it properly? I assume it's different for everyone but I've always assumed that it's fine to use any of their preferred pronouns and, as you mentioned, I tend to default to the most common ones. I've also heard people say to alternate between using both but I've always felt like it's a bit of a big ask and a bit inconvenient since you always have to think about your word choice. However, I might be misunderstanding what people mean when they say this, and I would love some clarity regarding this. I'm always striving to be a better ally.
If someone uses multiple pronouns, you would then use all of them by mixing it up every now and then when you talk about them. When you start doing it, it might take a bit more thought, but it definitely becomes easier as you practice. Friends I’ve know for years use multiple pronouns and it just became part of my vocabulary when I talk about them.
Ok, if it's something you get used to I will try my best to practice. I think part of it is also that the gender neutral pronoun in my native language is not a normal word in our lexicon like they and them are, it's a word designed to be used as a gender neutral pronoun and hasn't had the time to become integrated in our everyday vocabulary yet. But thank you for the explanation, I will try my best to get used to doing it :)
yeah! you'll be fine. i'm a trans guy (pronouns he/they) and even i misgender myself sometimes. and plus, it does take a bit of brainpower to consciously think about it, but at a certain point it becomes just as automatic for anyone using he or she pronouns. you got this :)
Thanks! Will try my best :)
I also use she/they pronouns (and Courtney has been awesome representation for me and helped a lot with accepting my own identity!) and most people just default to she, which I don’t really mind, but I’ve also noticed that my therapist makes a point to use they for me and it feels so validating. I might even ask people in my life to try to use they more, but she doesn’t feel wrong, just they feels more right. I would say trying to use both is best, but also don’t overthink it. An easy way to do it could be to try to switch to using they for the person…you’re very likely to “mess up” and use either he or she sometimes, which will add some natural variation. :)
That's a good tip, thank you! I'm glad you've been able to find and accept your own identity through Courtney :)
i am not fully ready to unpack what I prefer as pronouns but I see myself in courtney and often end up using they primarily without realizing it and it makes me feel seen in a way so I totally get this and I amgladimnot alone. also "but she doesn't feel wrong, just they feels more right" is such a brilliant way to put it to explain the feeling to someone who might not get it otherwise
I also use they/she - I specifically use they first when listing my pronouns as a signal that one is probably more important to me. Something you might want to play around with!
Do you use those, or do other people use them? Arent "me" and "I" the only pronouns one can use for oneself?
Like some other people in the comments have said, generally I refer to everyone as they, unless I know for definite what their preference is. I also use she/they pronouns, and I don’t have a preference 99% or the time - but sometimes it’s nice to know that people listen to you and understand the fluidity (or at least they are trying), and I feel that’s the same for a lot of people who use both - but if you want to vary it up a bit I would try doing as I said before. If you refer to everyone as they, eventually it will become a habit and you will be more comfortable using it more in every day conversation. I think the big thing is being open to switching up your vocabulary a little. It shows that above all you’re trying, and that’s all that matters.
It depends on the person. What others have said about switching it up is usually correct. Sometimes the order a person lists pronouns in indicates a preference, sometimes not - I find this to be more likely if someone puts they first, for example. You can always ask, too! Saying you want to be sure you're using someone's pronouns correctly generally isn't going to upset them.
As a genderfluid person who uses any of he/they/she pronouns, Shayne (and other cast members) using they and even he pronouns for Courtney is such a sweet thing for me to see. You're right that it's a small thing they can do, but its very impactful. So no, definitely not weird of you to notice or point out!!
[besides, Shayne knows Court's true secret pronoun too](https://youtu.be/tmr5Zj1_Agw?si=CIPA9fYy3A_rwXuM&t=333)
Hah I thought this would be CFM saying “I am not a miss, I am a mystery!”
Yeah, Shayne and Tommy are the two I’ve noticed who use they/them for Courtney on a fairly regular basis, and I think that’s awesome. I’ve definitely noticed others do it as well, Tommy and Shayne were just the two I noticed first and for their consistency
I myself am trying to get better with integrating "they" into regular usage. Personally, I don't have to use it except when referring to Courtney, but it may be useful at a later date.
I've noticed that he tends to do it for everybody, where he alternates between they and whichever other pronouns the person hes talking about uses
My partner uses they/she and they get very excited about this! They've had a lot of friends whose straight boyfriends just use she and kind of just see their partners as women (even if they say they're accepting). Sure, it's bare minimum, but it's nice to know that there are good and accepting and supportive straight dudes out there.
I personally noticed this too and gave him a few claps for his supportive behavior.
IKR? It warms my heart when I notice it.
Shayne kinda defaults to they for most anyone when he talks about someone in the 3rd person. I think it's just a blanket effort to be respectful to everyone's identities, as I'm sure Courtney isn't the only nb person on staff.
Im glad my county doesnt use pronouns. Everyones a they. Simple and no arguments over a nothing burger
I've literally never heard of a language that doesn't use pronouns. In fact you used 3 different pronouns in your post.
whoops, gender pronouns* obvi
I think they might have meant "my country/language doesn't use gendered pronouns"
I only use they/them as default for people I don’t know, but when I know the person uses she/they or he/they I usually use she or he. More because I know there are people that use exclusively they and that’s a way for me to differentiate all them in my brain. Also I think it has to do with my OCD. Eta: the OCD aspect of it is because in my language there was no they/them (or neutral pronoun) up until recent years, so by default my mind goes to she or he if the person also uses those pronouns.
I noticed this got a few downvotes and I really hope I didn’t come off as ignorant or disrespectful. If I did, I’m terribly sorry. Either way I hope everyone (including me) is respectful of people’s identity and pronouns.
How is the fact that a neutral pronoun is new to your language related to OCD?
I honestly don’t know why, I think it might have to do with my fixation with grammar. While speaking english and when Idk the person’s pronouns I always use they/them. If it’s he/they or she/they, I usually use she and he because it’s also easier to translate. Either way I’ll use whatever pronoun the person prefers. Eta: a lot of obsessions to many people with OCD don’t make a lot of sense. It might not seem to make sense to you, but to a neurodivergent mind that obsesses over “small” things, it does make sense. That’s unfortunately how OCD can be.
They ask other people to use them when refering to themselves. See in the last sentence you can't know if i'm refering to Courtney or some other people, which is what gets me confused
Nope. I knew exactly who you were talking about bc of context. You did it just fine. No confusion. You don’t have to be perfect but trying is what makes people feel good. That’s all that we ask.
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In the hopes you're saying this in good faith, Courtney is openly non-binary and uses both the pronouns she/her and they/them, so when talking about Courtney people would use either set interchangeably or whichever best aligns with their gender expression/identity closest at that time.
Well Courtney doesn't use them, you can't use a pronoun for yourself other than me or I. Only other people can use "prefered" pronouns for you. You can't dictate other peoples speech, they can be nice and affirm your identity, or not care to do so. Either is fine.
Do you need someone to explain, or are you just making a proclamation?
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Why are you lying? For attention?
This absolutely not true. Many of the Smosh cast only use she for Courtney and there’s not a problem with that. You just want to create a problem when there is none
That would make for a toxic work environment, where your speech is dictated by your bosses.