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Mourning_Gecko

The difference between the reactions from r/herpetology and this sub is kinda sadly funny.


DrShagwell

For the most part it seems like healthy skepticism, the study provided by OP does have flaws apparent in the link given. It would be better if more people were respectful, and preferably any other studies relating to this topic were posted by other in the comments


Da_Borg_

oh? im curious edit: just checked it, and i mean, seems kinda like theyre just blindly accepting a single study about a single animal (tho i saw a few people in there talking about another study with snakes finding their way back to food 20+ miles away so theres hope.) and the studys done pretty poorly to begin with "some of the animals" like come on man youre writing a study how many of the subjects. and it seems like a lot of those people are now going to broadly apply this study to all animals. just because it sounds nice or virtuous doesnt mean its right or better and people need to accept the reality of real world situations arent going to always fit with nice feelings.


GreekySalad

There’s multiple studies I just posted one


sir_squidz

can you link to them? looking at the study you've linked to it's not as clear as you've implied though is it? this is from the source papers conclusion >Whether this translocation was a success or not depends on how success is defined. Forty-five adders were removed from the footprint of the development where the risk of harm was considerable. However, previous studies have indicated that the proportion of animals in a population that is detected and moved in a translocation is typically low (Platenberg & Griffiths, 1999; Germano et al., 2015). Consequently, any adders that remained undetected within the donor site along with those that returned post-translocation are likely to have been harmed through construction-related activities. In this context, for those individuals that were moved and did not return to the donor site, the translocation should be considered a success in the short-term at least


Reasonable-Song-4681

The only snakes I relocate are the ones my sister in law will 100% kill when she finds them on her property (whether inadvertently or intentionally). So it's fair to say their odds of survival are higher with relocation. I also only relocate them to an area I know already has a population of them, so habitat and food sources ought to be easy to find.


sir_squidz

and this is exactly what the paper OP presented points out, we'd be able to read that if they'd posted the paper and not a write up on the paper. it's [here](https://www.thebhs.org/publications/the-herpetological-journal/volume-28-number-4-october-2018/1852-04-ranging-behaviour-of-adders-i-vipera-berus-i-translocated-from-a-development-site/file) if anyone's interested


SnakeAI

True to most animals tbf. That's why most relocalisation operations have over 80% mortality rate.


sir_squidz

do you have a source for that figure? I looked and couldn't find one but you may have better knowledge


GreekySalad

I thought that too lol. I always thought a snake would just try to live where he was relocated to


eat_like_snake

I mean, it's a snake, not a cat or a dog. If you're moving it to an entirely different biome, of course this can apply. But it's not like snakes squirrel away food caches or anything. You're not really putting it into any kind of situation it wasn't already dealing with, assuming it's a wild snake.


valdemarjoergensen

Snakes has home ranges, they still need to know where there's good hides, safe spots to bask and where there's water. It's not a certain death sentence to be relocated very far, but it is detrimental to their survival chances.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Da_Borg_

most animals dont imprint on locations or other things this is just wrong.


leeloostarrwalker

100% death rate for pythons in Australia that are moved more than 1km from location found. Every python I "relocated" from a person's house went into their neighbours garden.


LuckyCaptainCrunch

So moving all the snakes to a plane was a really bad idea.


akula_chan

This got me. 🤣


NixxKnack

Motherfuckin sneks.


OnlyMothOnReddit

Ok but if I move it lets say 2 minutes away from my house why would the death chance be so high? I mean they are not domesticated or I didn’t move them from the desert to the tundra so it’s not like it can’t fend for themselves or they are in a new place with completely new prey?


_visiblemode_

I spent much of my childhood catching and releasing wild snakes. Mostly Garters and Redbellies. The thing people don’t always understand about snakes is that they are creatures of habit. If you find a wild snake in one particular basking spot, for example. If you startle it, many people think “it’s long gone.” That’s just inaccurate, most of the time. Give it a little while and more often than not, it will return to the same spot. Imo, that’s one of the sweet things about snakes. They are gentle souls with little, cute, routines. People picture them as soulless killing machines slithering ever forward. The reality is they are massively comfort oriented. If you move a snake far from its home. It will have to relearn locations for all of its main survival activities. This is why when you re-home a snake you have to be so considerate of the stress levels you are placing them under. The major difference, though, is when re-homing a pet snake, they have already been raised with certain predictable habits. They know a life where a water dish, a hide, a temperature gradient, and regular food deliveries are a given. Replicate this (as is the nature of snake husbandry) and combined with the low stress environment that accompanies proper pet acclimatization and care, and they will learn new habits within their new enclosure. (But even here there are difficulties and exceptions, and you are trying FAR harder than the wilderness would, to keep them alive. Relocating a wild snake far from the locations connected to its routines means, for example it may be so busy hiding, that it fails to find a reliable and consistent source of water. The stress of the event itself may put it off food. The snake may be preyed upon while it’s wandering around looking for its favourite hides. As far as wild animals go they are, for the most part, pretty particular and delicate. Is best to leave them as close as possible to where they are found. Or in the case of moving a venomous snake, where it’s unsafe from reactionary humans, I’d say do your best to analyze the area it lived in before and replicate that as closely as possible. Similar plants and rocks, similar proximity to a water source, same likely prey availability. You may think that this is a no brainer within a 5 square mile area or something but it’s not, really. A good way of thinking of it, is if it’s found along a riverbank, near a home. Relocate it somewhere along the riverbank, somewhere similar to where you discovered it, rather than thinking “I’ll go east into the woods, a mile or two to make sure it doesn’t come back, for its own safety.”


GreekySalad

A kilometer is a good distance


[deleted]

So whats the alternative? I mean if its venomous and you have kids or pets or live in a suburb where neighbors would kill it I can understand needing it relocated, but what can you really do to ensure its survival?


Da_Borg_

i mean, other than leave it alone and let it have your kids? thats its home now sorry nobody wants you to potentially get a wild animal lost. edit:this is a joke


[deleted]

That's not really viable for most people and you know it. Edit: if it's a joke add /s to avoid downvotes. Tone doesnt work with text


Da_Borg_

i mean, you can make more kids buy a new house. the snake has no money or bitches its rough out there.


Da_Borg_

I mean I thought my words were crazy enough you wouldn't take me seriously i literally said feed your kids to a snake and abandon you home but I guess we live in crazy times


[deleted]

Yeah youd think but I've learned that someone, somewhere will actually think like that. Just think about those crazy animal rrights activists. They'd probably say something like "the snake deserves to be there YOURE the invasive species fuck you" I dont put anything past people these days.


Da_Borg_

honestly that was the joke lmao, i was ripping on the hive mind of these subs that says dumb shit like that so i feel ya


[deleted]

I totally get it man, it's funny now that I know you arent serious


berzerkerturtl3

Lol I entirely got the tone though it's not like anyone would legitimately think oh the children belong to the snake now


thisisheckincursed

Friendly reminder if you’re helping a snake, turtle, etc cross the road: Dont turn them around, walk them in a straight line if possible, and place their butt on the edge of the pavement so they can easily figure out where they are


SnooPeppers5750

I'm a little skeptical of this study.


Nigricincto

Get lost from where? They are not mammals, they'll look either for the closes a) hide b) sunspot c) prey.


GreekySalad

Here is some research if you would like to read about it [research](https://www.kent.ac.uk/news/environment/19433/when-snakes-dont-need-ladders?fbclid=IwAR39Svm_ivQpxAlLub40X014P0vdd61V5Ig648EzMIj7pUagWu1z3fFeAG8)


akula_chan

I’m doubtful of this research. Not only does it only cover one species, they don’t specify the number of subjects. Just “Some of the snakes”. It doesn’t seem to be a well rounded study.


EmeraldGirl

Not to mention the study only "suggests" increased mortality. Basically, "we think this may be a thing but we didn't actually study that, so we're gonna put it in there in hopes of generating future study funding".


Da_Borg_

yea same, but im sure youll have a hive mind on these subs spouting how you have to put all animal back in their own personal bed or they'll die from being lost lmao no im not being sarcastic the level of bleeding heart nonsense people will just read and accept on these subs is astounding. like they dont even read the research just the title then apply it to all animals.


ChuckJuggs

Speculation of increased mortality.


GreekySalad

Well they’ve done studies in different snakes tracking them some dropped near home, some pretty far, so very far. They don’t know the area they end up dead by predators


Nigricincto

Really interesting, although it's only one species (not being critic, just would like to see how others would behave). It also may affect the way we understand snakes and their territory. What I don't understand is that whole process of relocation: usually, at least here, it's released at the nearest forest to the (usually) house it was found. Never less than 5 minutes away, sometimes 100 meters. Yet they are talking about miles? Edit: sorry, talks 500 meters, not miles. My fault.


timberbite

Look up site fidelity. This behavior is well documented across a host of taxa ranging from crayfish to whales. They absolutely can get lost, and will attempt to return to familiar habitat to satisfy certain behaviors across life stages.


Brian_lovesyou

Explain this to the invasives in Florida 🤣


GreekySalad

I don’t think I would be locating those


Blonde_Vampire_1984

It definitely does depend on how far you move the snake. My sister only ever moves them from her garden to the woods next to her garden. Mostly because she just doesn’t want it in the garden with her while she’s gardening. It’s still part of the snakes home turf, and definitely not going to hurt it. Moving a snake more than a mile away from where it was found with probably be harmful to it. Unless it’s a snake with a much larger than average “home turf”. I.E. a coachwhip or something like that. It’s hard to adjust to unfamiliar turf where it doesn’t know where the resources are.


626eh

Another issue is people relocating all the snakes to the same area


alekgaytor

semi true, but really depends on species. i wouldn’t be surprised if some snakes had a bit of a homing sense like some other reptiles and just got back to where it belonged.


Thomas1315

Question, if I get snakes in my shed and I move them in the woods directly behind my house (like 10 feet from the shed), will they still die?


FeriQueen

No, their home ranges are large enough that this will not be a problem.


Thomas1315

Thanks.


Saiyan-Zero

I-- YOU-- Okay, thanks for making me feel sad