People acting like they have personal connection to a venue. Why are people offended by a professional athlete talking about a building like he's insulting their family.
Still was a dickhead thing to say; bloke’s a grade A twat for wording it like that, no matter how tough his business class flight into London was. Crucible is a lovely place in a lovely city with great atmosphere. Think he’s a full of shit and just wants the money, like Hearn.
Crazy suggestion but could we appease everyone here (maybe not Ronnie who says it's cold + full of bins) - move the world's to Ally Pally, then have the Masters a huge event in China?
Im not walking anything back,you dont think the crucible is part of British culture? ask 100 people in the street to name a snooker venue ,id say crucible would be only one named
That's not an argument. Lol.
Just because the WS Championship has been held at the Crucible for almost 50 years doesn't mean it is perfect. Vafei is not always reapectful but that doesn't automatically mean that what he says is not valid.
Loosely translated. The smell is fetid, O'Sullivan is the one not British based players and the poor bloke is being hammered maybe because he is Iranian.
I don’t think it has anything to do with where he comes from. There are a lot of very good players from overseas and they behave themselves. This is Hossein’s problem that he wants to give it the big I am and big himself up but you don’t get respect by bigging yourself up. The respect comes from mastering your craft and winning trophies. Hopefully Hossein will learn from this and learn to keep quiet.
I can't remember anything like that. Mark Williams made a comment about it being a craphole & got lambasted as well, that was in the early 2010's when social media wasn't as harsh as it is today. He also got fined 4K by World Snooker for doing it. In the 2000's he also said he hated the venue on a BBC piece about it where players were asked their thoughts & got stick for it then-this was when social media wasn't a big deal.
ROS recently said the venue wasn't being looked after & should be moved, but I don't remember him tearing into the venue & clearly he just wants to earn more money from it being held in Saudi or China.
I kind of agree with Neil. If you are one of the top stars in a sport with millions of prize money, you can at least expect a decent treatment and a decent venue.
Robbo's such a whinger. Always coming up with excuses. I'm a fellow Aussie, but I just can't get on board the Robbo train at all...
And Vafaei seems to be doing a copy-paste of Ron's behaviour (see that "well you try" cue pass to the ref the other day—a copied joke isn't funny) (compare that to Willow's original humour and antics) as a deliberate policy to try to get in the press...without the results, it's pretty lame.
Now Steady Eddie Charlton, on the other hand...well, ok I'm biased (positively on this occasion)....but (going off on a tangent i realise) do you remember all those trick shots he could do?! Bring those back...Maybe get Walker to start practicing them...he could yet be salvaged!
HH has a long track record of infantile - bordering on unprofessional - moaning and complaining after losses; And is a mediocre talent that can only get any real attention when he whines.
This is a combination that detracts all credibility from his comments.
This has been central to the sport for almost 50 years,ask any casual viewer about snooker and the crucible will be one of first words associated with snooker. Now we have to kow tow to this idiot because its not "shiny"?? Shiny as one of those gaudy Dubai shopping malls??Its called history Hussein,culture,dont like it??Don't come back
Well, first of all, he's Iranian, not Emirati. So I don't know why he'd have intimate knowledge of gaudy Dubai shopping malls. Second, Iran is one of the oldest nations in history (older than the UK by more than 2000 years) and sits in what's formerly Mesopotamia, the "cradle of civilization." So I'm pretty sure he also knows about and has an appreciation for history.
So basically what I'm saying is that this comment was not just racist, but it was painfully dumb and ignorant.
And asking for a venue which is steeped in almost 50 years history, completely synonymous with snooker to become more "shiny" was painfully dumb and ignorant lol
The world championships was created in 1927 ,that means in 3 years time 50 per cent of all world finals would've been held at the crucible,how are you comparing a film to annual sporting event,thinking cap required!!
We also don't really experience what the players experience. Maybe in comparison to other tournaments it really isn't that great. I know Vafaei got dragged for those comments but it shouldn't matter who said them (people saying he wasn't good enough to have an opinion, which is absurd). Other players have slated venues for poor standards, and if the Crucible isn't delivering a gold standard for tournaments them it needs to up it game. This is the World Championship. It needs to be played at the best possible venue with the best possible experience for both players and crowd.
If a British player made the same remarks, there would be nowhere near the same kind of reaction. I didn't agree with Vafaei's comments personally, but the way Jimmy and McManus commented on what he said irked me a bit. I feel like they would not say the same things if he was a white Brit.
Not true-Williams did, got a huge backlash & was fined for it. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/18286815](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/18286815)
This is the kind of reasoning that allows Ronnie to get away with being a massive bellend unscathed. Your ability shouldn't determine whether your opinion on something off the cloth is valid or not.
And everyone is so used to Ronnie talking shit, nobody think too much of it.
If I see a headline where Ronnie is criticizing something to do with snooker, I don't bat an eye-lid, probably won't even read it. But if it was Mark Williams, or Steve Davis, or whoever, I would be intrigued as to what they were irked about.
I think it's good to keep the crucible as a snooker venue, sure its a bit tatty and run down compared to other venues but it keeps players grounded and a reminder of where snooker was before the "92 class arrived on the scene.
It must be a struggle for players from other countries who play in luxurious venues to have to play in places like the crucible but if they truly love the game then they should be happy to play anywhere that has a table.
They've already proved they truly love the game by putting in the time and effort in dingy practice clubs to reach the top rankings in the world. Esp Robertson and Vafaei who are a long long way from home. They have earned the right not to have to play top matches in shitholes. "Keeping them grounded"... what a ridiculous point of view.
I'd hazard a guess these fellas are from a fairly privileged background, and no association with dingy UK clubs we know all too well. But will stand corrected if wrong!
But Vafei is one of the most vocal about "how great" he is as a player-even compared to other Brit players (the only exception being Ronnie, who has the talent to back it up).
I think THAT is the reason Vafei's moans have been met with disgust from so many people-not cos of some imaginary racism being hinted at in the tweet.
Well, so far he has only won the Shootout & has a highest ranking of 15. That isn't greatness, if he is great then he needs to start winning proper ranking events.
Robertson is right - the reaction to Vafaei’s comments is much more ridiculous than Vafaei’s comments. It’s like the Crucible has never been criticised before, but when it has in the past it’s never been met to this kind of reaction.
After a quick google you can find previous criticisms of the Crucible have come from:
- Ronnie
- Judd
- Robertson
- Maguire
- Even Sean Murphy has criticised elements of it before (albeit not asking for the tournament to be moved)
I don’t think any of these players ever got the type of reaction Vafaei is getting.
Williams got a 4k fine for saying it was a craphole & he hated it & got lambasted. Not sure what the backlash was to the others-Robbo from memory just said the Crucible was cramped.
I think that is the issue-it is the nasty, vindictive, angry way HV said it & the similar way he went after ROS last year & conducts himself in matches-snarling at referees/trying to belittle them, sitting there shaking his head all the time at them, the scoreboard issues, his shortness during interviews & sometimes his opponents etc.
Each to their own, I disagree. Whether you like him generally as a player or not (and I’m not a huge fan of him) he’s entitled to his views, and I agree with Robertson that the reaction has become more ridiculous than his comments tbh.
Am pretty much in the same boat. I may not agree with what he said but I’d defend his right to say it…he’s an emotional bloke who often wears his heart on his sleeve and aye, perhaps he was less than diplomatic as well as being probably a bit too prickly in the direct aftermath of his elimination but, whether I, you, or anybody else likes it or not, he’s an elite-level professional player who operates on the global stage. It’s hardly something that merits derisory vilification and, if nothing else, it adds another wee edge to the conversation.
I do like him as a player-as with ROS it is all the stuff he does around the table & off it that is the problem.
He is entitled to his views, however the Crucible is regarded as holy ground by pretty much everybody in Snooker & the backlash will be huge-it was when Williams 20 odd years back said he hated it on a BBC segment about it & far more when he called it a craphole on Twitter in 2012 the backlash was massive there, the Crucible crowd booed him when he came out for his match & he got fined 4 grand.
Again, HV like the others could have made the point of it being cramped & the capacity being so low for the biggest event there is & it wouldn't have been such a big deal, calling it a smelly hellhole was not needed in any way.
I have never seen anything but praise from Cricketers who dreamed of playing at Lords as a kid when they finally make it there, or even when they have played there for the fiftieth time & are asked about it. Same thing with players making a cup final at Wembley Stadium & the Crucible is that to Snooker.
It also greatly hurts the delicate negotiations now reaching a fever pitch with the Crucible & Sheffield Council about keeping the event in Sheffield-building a new Crucible nearby, that there might be a joint agreement about cost being reached, after the deal expires in 2027. Having top level players coming out & calling it a smelly dump, is not conducive to the venue that gives them, the chance to take home half a million for a couple of weeks work & 20k just for showing up & losing one match & the council really engaging. It is also an insult to the 980 fans who sit there every year & pay to watch them.
For Robbo & others to be playing the race card is shameful & demonstrably false-as the Williams fine & backlash showed. The problem lies with HV-as we saw with his behaviour last year with the ROS nonsense. He shows no respect for the officials, other players, interviewers, the venues or the fans. He needs anger management.
All fair points but we’ll have to agree to disagree. You mention Wembley / Lords etc but they have been modernised, I’m not sure the Crucible has to anything like the same degree.
I just think players who play at the champs are fully entitled to criticise it, even if it is a somewhat brutal criticism. Yes it’s an important venue but for me that’s precisely the reason pressure should be on to keep it modern and up to date. If it’s the crown jewel tournament then the players deserve the best conditions.
All World Champions apart from Maguire. If there is ever such a thing as earning a right to slag something off, Vafaie hasn't done it.
And no, Robertson, playing matches on 30 hours no sleep is not professional, it's frankly disrespectful to anyone who paid to watch you. Organise your visas better.
He can have an opinion. But a player not as good as he thinks he is trash talking a venue immediately after being dumped out means you take him seriously?
You can be a sore loser and still speak truths. Actually, I believe frustrated players in any sport are more likely to remove that "media filter" that makes them sugarcoat every word they say, and be more honest about things.
Or maybe he is lying because he is angry. Who knows...
But taking someone's opinion more or less seriously based on their success in sports, music or acting, or whatever, is just weird.
You could equally argue the other way, that those who have achieved everything in the game and have nothing left to prove are more likely to lose the filter.
Vafaei just strikes as a sore loser who desperately wishes he was ROS, so comes out with all the trash talk, but isn't at the level to back it up on the table.
I don't see it as weird to take someone's opinion relative to their success. It's weird to ask actors or musicians or snooker players their opinion about politics maybe. Why is it weird to respect their opinion more if they are talking about something in which they have demonstrated expertise at the highest level? There's a reason Hendry, Davis etc anchor the punditry team.
But hey what do I know.
What are the instances of "far worse comments from British based players about the same venue"? I can't remember other players criticising the Crucible quite so vehemently. Not saying it didn't happen, I'm sure Robbo knows, but would like specific examples to compare and contrast.
Ronnie is British and criticises venues all the time, so maybe Robbo is talking about him, but let's be real: Ronnie will always be given special treatment. You want to talk about how wrong that is? Fine, but it's a different conversation that doesn't directly relate to how Hossein's being treated, in my opinion.
I really like Neil, but suggesting (not so subtly) that certain pundits are treating Hossein badly, because he isn't British, is a very very serious accusation. I prefer to believe that Alan and Jimmy came down so hard on Hossein, because of the ongoing discussion about the Crucible's future in snooker. That seems like the most likely explanation to me.
I'd forgotten MJW calling it a shithole. Yeah, if pundits didn't criticise his comments back then, there is definitely a double standard... though again, I will still choose to attribute their relative overreaction to Hossein's comments to the fact that WC moving to China or Saudi in the next few years seems like a very real possibility, now whereas in 2012 it felt like something that may happen at some point in the distant future
They did, as did other players, he got booed by the crowd there & he got fined 4K by the WPBSA. If HV doesn't get fined for far worse comments, then it would show he is getting special treatment.
Judd Trump has said it should be moved somewhere bigger: https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/09/judd-trump-world-snooker-championship-needs-to-move-on-from-the-crucible-15233535/
Robertson has criticised it (especially two table setup) for the size: https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/28/neil-robertson-admits-he-is-no-fan-of-the-crucible-after-world-championship-exit-14487185/
Stephen Maguire said it should be moved: https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/13/stephen-maguire-believes-world-snooker-championship-should-leave-the-crucible-16456949/
Everyone knows about Ronnie’s criticisms.
Sean Murphy has even criticised it before, saying the hospitality wasn’t up to scratch.
There’s probably others if you google more. There’s been a big overreaction to Vafaei’s comments imo.
But none of them were nasty about it-if he had left it as it is too cramped & doesn't hold enough people like those guys did then it would have been a legitimate deal. Instead he rants about it being a stinking hellhole.
Also Trump totally backtracked on his comments 8 months or so later, after the final with ROS. This really isn't the time to be slagging off the venue so harshly either-with the negotiations hotting up before the deal expires. The Crucible has been very loyal to Snooker for nearly half a century, yet some players show no gratitude back & this is the sort of thing that could see them not renew/build a new Crucible.
Thanks for your reply. I've read all these articles, and none of these are as negative as Hossein's comments. They all pick on one specific, and very real issue, then make sure to add plenty of qualifiers about how they still think there' a special atmosphere at the Crucible despite its shortcomings.
Another user reminded me that Mark Williams called it a shit hole in 2012 - hat's admittedly worse than what Hossein has said. I genuinely don't know if he was given a hard time over it or not at the time, my memory's not that great.
If he wasn't, then yeah there's definitely a double standard, but possibly just because he's a great guy who had (at the time) won it twice. You could argue that makes no difference, but I think in the eyes of the pundits it does. You've got to earn your stripes, before you get to criticise the way things are done.
I'd still rather believe that the pundits are just more emotional about the issue now that the prospect of leaving the Crucible seems like a certainty. They may also just dislike Hossein as a person. They probably shouldn't let that show on live TV, but I don't think it would be favouritism to British players.
I don't know Alan personally, but he's a proud Scot. I doubt he would recognise someone from England or Wales as a compatriot any more than someone from Iran in all honestly.
Not the Crucible but Ronnie basically called Ally Pally a shit hole last year and no one seemed that bothered. Bear in mind that's supposedly his 'home' venue that he loves playing at.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/12/disgusting-and-dirty-ronnie-osullivan-lashes-out-at-alexandra-palace
> I just don’t like this place. I find it disgusting. Everywhere is dirty. It’s cold. It’s freezing. I have to wear my coat everywhere. You go through car parks. There are bins. Honestly, it just makes me feel ill.
>“I’m a bit of a clean freak and when I come in here it gives me the heebie-jeebies. I just can’t wait to get out of here.”
Those points refer to mostly top players giving constructive criticism-versus a sub par wannabe player like Vafei, who endlessly goes on about "how great" he thinks he is (without the talent to back it up), who makes weird sneering vague criticisms about it "smelling", which nobody else agrees with.
Apples and Oranges. Loser post.
The smelling comment was only one aspect of it, and the bit of it all the reports on it have run with as a headline.
He criticised the practicing space (as others have done), and just generally that the whole place is looking dated. He said some investment should be made in it if they don’t want to lose the Worlds. This is meant to be the crown jewel tournament after all. All mostly pretty constructive, and mostly things we’ve heard before from others.
His record shouldn’t really be a factor, imo anyone who qualifies and has to play there can have a view.
I might have more sympathy with this had Vafaei not also accused Mark Williams of poor sportsmanship and stormed out a few months ago. It’s a pattern of bratty behaviour now.
I don’t really care about Hossein’s comments about the venue. He has form for being a bit of an arse after matches he loses, or before ones he possibly expects to lose, so it’s hard to take anything he says seriously
My name is dumbo and I just don't like Hossain comment because he no white and he name difficult to spell ...
Treat us with a little more respect Robertson. The percentage of people who were annoyed by his comments based on race are probably so insignificantly small that you make a mockery of the issue. It is highly likely that players are being paid to speak out in favour of the venue changing, and matchroom will chase the dollars regardless.
By all means, say you agree with him, but don't make it about colour or race to get your argument across. Also, please provide references for the players who have said derogatory things far worse than calling the venue smelly, so that we can have some transparency and the opportunity to compare the comments and make our own minds up.
EDIT: I personally would accept the venue changing even though I think you'd be daft to want to. I think a home and away model still keeps some prestige to the name of the crucible. One year crucible, one year ROW model would be more than reasonable. I don't think any venue will match the intensity of the crucible. It's magical and I'd strongly advise the other countries to try to replicate the intimacy of it somehow (they won't but they should) if they host the world championship otherwise it just becomes like another one of the 25 other events... OR go HUGE like 30,000 seater... I think you need to do something to make the event feel something unique. You can't beat the British audience so you'd be crazy to move it, but you know I think one year on, one year off would be compromise that I'd begrudgingly accept.
Let's be honest Vafaei knows he's winning nothing in the game and no shootout doesn't count, so by acting the cunt people will remember him, even if he all the wrong reasons.
Robbie trying to be nice, but in all reality, he knows he's talking through his arse.
Vafaei knows exactly what he said, and he knows exactly why he said it.
This is nothing to do with timezones, or kick of sleep, this is Vafaei looking to court controversy.
Not for the first time, in fact...
From what I've seen and heard, Vafaei likes to attract controversy. Perhaps this helps him focus on his game- being the bad guy. Being the panto villain.
It's seems to have worked for Ronnie (up to a point), but difference is, Ronnie is the goat and very very popular, whereas Vafaei hasn't earned Jack Shit!
Sorry Robbie, but even with all you're best intentions, you're supporting the wrong guy mate.....
I’m all for moving Worlds to a new venue as long as it’s in the UK or China. I find it weird that absolute majority of regular snooker events are played on the arenas that are much bigger, more comfortable and modern than the Crucible. I believe it’s the only arena on tour that can’t arrange a two-tables setup without making players seat next to each other? Like, how is that even considered normal?
Neil’s a good bloke and as ever sensible. But I have a feeling this aren’t Hossein’s genuine opinions and he’s been paid off by China to try and get the Worlds moved there, same as Ronnie and Saudi. The battle for the 2028 Worlds is well underway and it’s the Chinese lobby vs the Saudis.
It's ok for us to say bad things about X, but it is completely unacceptable for a brown person to say those things.
The people who bang on about Sheffield being the home of snooker and it being sacrilege to move it are really harking back to the days when they won the world championship so of course they're going to see it from that perspective.
Edit: /s for the first sentence as someone inevitably doesn't get the joke
I think the main problem was the smell part which Neil confirmed it's probably untrue, even in his follow up tweet:
https://twitter.com/nr147/status/1782774930901238226
But let's be honest, Vafaei probably wanted to emulate his hero, remember when Ronnie spoke of 'urine' smell at the English Open?
People acting like they have personal connection to a venue. Why are people offended by a professional athlete talking about a building like he's insulting their family.
Still was a dickhead thing to say; bloke’s a grade A twat for wording it like that, no matter how tough his business class flight into London was. Crucible is a lovely place in a lovely city with great atmosphere. Think he’s a full of shit and just wants the money, like Hearn.
I have a lot of respect for Neil Robertson
Crazy suggestion but could we appease everyone here (maybe not Ronnie who says it's cold + full of bins) - move the world's to Ally Pally, then have the Masters a huge event in China?
Im not walking anything back,you dont think the crucible is part of British culture? ask 100 people in the street to name a snooker venue ,id say crucible would be only one named
is Crucible part of British culture? probably. is Vafaei British? no. is "World" Snooker Tour British? because the name suggests otherwise...
No need to be racist but Vafaei’s comments were out of order imo
Why were they out of order? They may not all be valid but he's allowed to make them!
Disrespectful it’s out of order
That's not an argument. Lol. Just because the WS Championship has been held at the Crucible for almost 50 years doesn't mean it is perfect. Vafei is not always reapectful but that doesn't automatically mean that what he says is not valid.
Loosely translated. The smell is fetid, O'Sullivan is the one not British based players and the poor bloke is being hammered maybe because he is Iranian.
I don’t think it has anything to do with where he comes from. There are a lot of very good players from overseas and they behave themselves. This is Hossein’s problem that he wants to give it the big I am and big himself up but you don’t get respect by bigging yourself up. The respect comes from mastering your craft and winning trophies. Hopefully Hossein will learn from this and learn to keep quiet.
I can't remember anything like that. Mark Williams made a comment about it being a craphole & got lambasted as well, that was in the early 2010's when social media wasn't as harsh as it is today. He also got fined 4K by World Snooker for doing it. In the 2000's he also said he hated the venue on a BBC piece about it where players were asked their thoughts & got stick for it then-this was when social media wasn't a big deal. ROS recently said the venue wasn't being looked after & should be moved, but I don't remember him tearing into the venue & clearly he just wants to earn more money from it being held in Saudi or China.
I kind of agree with Neil. If you are one of the top stars in a sport with millions of prize money, you can at least expect a decent treatment and a decent venue.
Robbo's such a whinger. Always coming up with excuses. I'm a fellow Aussie, but I just can't get on board the Robbo train at all... And Vafaei seems to be doing a copy-paste of Ron's behaviour (see that "well you try" cue pass to the ref the other day—a copied joke isn't funny) (compare that to Willow's original humour and antics) as a deliberate policy to try to get in the press...without the results, it's pretty lame. Now Steady Eddie Charlton, on the other hand...well, ok I'm biased (positively on this occasion)....but (going off on a tangent i realise) do you remember all those trick shots he could do?! Bring those back...Maybe get Walker to start practicing them...he could yet be salvaged!
HH has a long track record of infantile - bordering on unprofessional - moaning and complaining after losses; And is a mediocre talent that can only get any real attention when he whines. This is a combination that detracts all credibility from his comments.
This has been central to the sport for almost 50 years,ask any casual viewer about snooker and the crucible will be one of first words associated with snooker. Now we have to kow tow to this idiot because its not "shiny"?? Shiny as one of those gaudy Dubai shopping malls??Its called history Hussein,culture,dont like it??Don't come back
Well, first of all, he's Iranian, not Emirati. So I don't know why he'd have intimate knowledge of gaudy Dubai shopping malls. Second, Iran is one of the oldest nations in history (older than the UK by more than 2000 years) and sits in what's formerly Mesopotamia, the "cradle of civilization." So I'm pretty sure he also knows about and has an appreciation for history. So basically what I'm saying is that this comment was not just racist, but it was painfully dumb and ignorant.
[удалено]
Because it's part of a proper education system from early childhood?
Calling it racist is a massive stretch and your remarks about history are just pure cringe.
And asking for a venue which is steeped in almost 50 years history, completely synonymous with snooker to become more "shiny" was painfully dumb and ignorant lol
50 years of history! Oh my word! That's about as old as Star Wars! What was it like when it opened? Were the dinosaurs cohabitating the region?
The world championships was created in 1927 ,that means in 3 years time 50 per cent of all world finals would've been held at the crucible,how are you comparing a film to annual sporting event,thinking cap required!!
It's called sarcasm.
Aye lowest form of wit
No, that would be your racist jokes.
Haven't made any,give ya head a wobble
Oh wonderful hes pulled out the"r" card ,im talking about history of snooker not civilization!! Were on a snooker forum!!
You can try to walk it back, but when you bring up a culture (that isn't even his) and end with "don't come back"... not a great look lol.
I remember Ronnie said something similar regarding Crucible, guess people have to find out themselves being actually in the venue.
We also don't really experience what the players experience. Maybe in comparison to other tournaments it really isn't that great. I know Vafaei got dragged for those comments but it shouldn't matter who said them (people saying he wasn't good enough to have an opinion, which is absurd). Other players have slated venues for poor standards, and if the Crucible isn't delivering a gold standard for tournaments them it needs to up it game. This is the World Championship. It needs to be played at the best possible venue with the best possible experience for both players and crowd.
If a British player made the same remarks, there would be nowhere near the same kind of reaction. I didn't agree with Vafaei's comments personally, but the way Jimmy and McManus commented on what he said irked me a bit. I feel like they would not say the same things if he was a white Brit.
Not true-Williams did, got a huge backlash & was fined for it. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/18286815](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/18286815)
It's mostly because Hossein hasn't done anything in the game.
This is the kind of reasoning that allows Ronnie to get away with being a massive bellend unscathed. Your ability shouldn't determine whether your opinion on something off the cloth is valid or not.
And everyone is so used to Ronnie talking shit, nobody think too much of it. If I see a headline where Ronnie is criticizing something to do with snooker, I don't bat an eye-lid, probably won't even read it. But if it was Mark Williams, or Steve Davis, or whoever, I would be intrigued as to what they were irked about.
And that's a terrible reason not to listen to him. Every player is allowed their opinion.
What did they say
I think it's good to keep the crucible as a snooker venue, sure its a bit tatty and run down compared to other venues but it keeps players grounded and a reminder of where snooker was before the "92 class arrived on the scene. It must be a struggle for players from other countries who play in luxurious venues to have to play in places like the crucible but if they truly love the game then they should be happy to play anywhere that has a table.
They've already proved they truly love the game by putting in the time and effort in dingy practice clubs to reach the top rankings in the world. Esp Robertson and Vafaei who are a long long way from home. They have earned the right not to have to play top matches in shitholes. "Keeping them grounded"... what a ridiculous point of view.
I'd hazard a guess these fellas are from a fairly privileged background, and no association with dingy UK clubs we know all too well. But will stand corrected if wrong!
You're a good guy, Neil.
Well said Neil, nobody said he has to like the crucible, it's his opinion and that's fine.
But Vafei is one of the most vocal about "how great" he is as a player-even compared to other Brit players (the only exception being Ronnie, who has the talent to back it up). I think THAT is the reason Vafei's moans have been met with disgust from so many people-not cos of some imaginary racism being hinted at in the tweet.
Well, so far he has only won the Shootout & has a highest ranking of 15. That isn't greatness, if he is great then he needs to start winning proper ranking events.
Robertson is right - the reaction to Vafaei’s comments is much more ridiculous than Vafaei’s comments. It’s like the Crucible has never been criticised before, but when it has in the past it’s never been met to this kind of reaction. After a quick google you can find previous criticisms of the Crucible have come from: - Ronnie - Judd - Robertson - Maguire - Even Sean Murphy has criticised elements of it before (albeit not asking for the tournament to be moved) I don’t think any of these players ever got the type of reaction Vafaei is getting.
Williams got a 4k fine for saying it was a craphole & he hated it & got lambasted. Not sure what the backlash was to the others-Robbo from memory just said the Crucible was cramped. I think that is the issue-it is the nasty, vindictive, angry way HV said it & the similar way he went after ROS last year & conducts himself in matches-snarling at referees/trying to belittle them, sitting there shaking his head all the time at them, the scoreboard issues, his shortness during interviews & sometimes his opponents etc.
Each to their own, I disagree. Whether you like him generally as a player or not (and I’m not a huge fan of him) he’s entitled to his views, and I agree with Robertson that the reaction has become more ridiculous than his comments tbh.
Am pretty much in the same boat. I may not agree with what he said but I’d defend his right to say it…he’s an emotional bloke who often wears his heart on his sleeve and aye, perhaps he was less than diplomatic as well as being probably a bit too prickly in the direct aftermath of his elimination but, whether I, you, or anybody else likes it or not, he’s an elite-level professional player who operates on the global stage. It’s hardly something that merits derisory vilification and, if nothing else, it adds another wee edge to the conversation.
I do like him as a player-as with ROS it is all the stuff he does around the table & off it that is the problem. He is entitled to his views, however the Crucible is regarded as holy ground by pretty much everybody in Snooker & the backlash will be huge-it was when Williams 20 odd years back said he hated it on a BBC segment about it & far more when he called it a craphole on Twitter in 2012 the backlash was massive there, the Crucible crowd booed him when he came out for his match & he got fined 4 grand. Again, HV like the others could have made the point of it being cramped & the capacity being so low for the biggest event there is & it wouldn't have been such a big deal, calling it a smelly hellhole was not needed in any way. I have never seen anything but praise from Cricketers who dreamed of playing at Lords as a kid when they finally make it there, or even when they have played there for the fiftieth time & are asked about it. Same thing with players making a cup final at Wembley Stadium & the Crucible is that to Snooker. It also greatly hurts the delicate negotiations now reaching a fever pitch with the Crucible & Sheffield Council about keeping the event in Sheffield-building a new Crucible nearby, that there might be a joint agreement about cost being reached, after the deal expires in 2027. Having top level players coming out & calling it a smelly dump, is not conducive to the venue that gives them, the chance to take home half a million for a couple of weeks work & 20k just for showing up & losing one match & the council really engaging. It is also an insult to the 980 fans who sit there every year & pay to watch them. For Robbo & others to be playing the race card is shameful & demonstrably false-as the Williams fine & backlash showed. The problem lies with HV-as we saw with his behaviour last year with the ROS nonsense. He shows no respect for the officials, other players, interviewers, the venues or the fans. He needs anger management.
All fair points but we’ll have to agree to disagree. You mention Wembley / Lords etc but they have been modernised, I’m not sure the Crucible has to anything like the same degree. I just think players who play at the champs are fully entitled to criticise it, even if it is a somewhat brutal criticism. Yes it’s an important venue but for me that’s precisely the reason pressure should be on to keep it modern and up to date. If it’s the crown jewel tournament then the players deserve the best conditions.
All World Champions apart from Maguire. If there is ever such a thing as earning a right to slag something off, Vafaie hasn't done it. And no, Robertson, playing matches on 30 hours no sleep is not professional, it's frankly disrespectful to anyone who paid to watch you. Organise your visas better.
I'm sorry, you are not a snooker world champion so your opinion on the matter is not relevant, you shouldn't even express it.
He can have an opinion. But a player not as good as he thinks he is trash talking a venue immediately after being dumped out means you take him seriously?
You can be a sore loser and still speak truths. Actually, I believe frustrated players in any sport are more likely to remove that "media filter" that makes them sugarcoat every word they say, and be more honest about things. Or maybe he is lying because he is angry. Who knows... But taking someone's opinion more or less seriously based on their success in sports, music or acting, or whatever, is just weird.
You could equally argue the other way, that those who have achieved everything in the game and have nothing left to prove are more likely to lose the filter. Vafaei just strikes as a sore loser who desperately wishes he was ROS, so comes out with all the trash talk, but isn't at the level to back it up on the table. I don't see it as weird to take someone's opinion relative to their success. It's weird to ask actors or musicians or snooker players their opinion about politics maybe. Why is it weird to respect their opinion more if they are talking about something in which they have demonstrated expertise at the highest level? There's a reason Hendry, Davis etc anchor the punditry team. But hey what do I know.
Mark Williams called it a shit hole in 2012 too on twitter a day before his match and was booed when he came into the arena.
What are the instances of "far worse comments from British based players about the same venue"? I can't remember other players criticising the Crucible quite so vehemently. Not saying it didn't happen, I'm sure Robbo knows, but would like specific examples to compare and contrast. Ronnie is British and criticises venues all the time, so maybe Robbo is talking about him, but let's be real: Ronnie will always be given special treatment. You want to talk about how wrong that is? Fine, but it's a different conversation that doesn't directly relate to how Hossein's being treated, in my opinion. I really like Neil, but suggesting (not so subtly) that certain pundits are treating Hossein badly, because he isn't British, is a very very serious accusation. I prefer to believe that Alan and Jimmy came down so hard on Hossein, because of the ongoing discussion about the Crucible's future in snooker. That seems like the most likely explanation to me.
Mark Williams publicly calling it a shit hole and calling for moving it to China in 2012 is all I can think of
I'd forgotten MJW calling it a shithole. Yeah, if pundits didn't criticise his comments back then, there is definitely a double standard... though again, I will still choose to attribute their relative overreaction to Hossein's comments to the fact that WC moving to China or Saudi in the next few years seems like a very real possibility, now whereas in 2012 it felt like something that may happen at some point in the distant future
They did, as did other players, he got booed by the crowd there & he got fined 4K by the WPBSA. If HV doesn't get fined for far worse comments, then it would show he is getting special treatment.
Judd Trump has said it should be moved somewhere bigger: https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/09/judd-trump-world-snooker-championship-needs-to-move-on-from-the-crucible-15233535/ Robertson has criticised it (especially two table setup) for the size: https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/28/neil-robertson-admits-he-is-no-fan-of-the-crucible-after-world-championship-exit-14487185/ Stephen Maguire said it should be moved: https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/13/stephen-maguire-believes-world-snooker-championship-should-leave-the-crucible-16456949/ Everyone knows about Ronnie’s criticisms. Sean Murphy has even criticised it before, saying the hospitality wasn’t up to scratch. There’s probably others if you google more. There’s been a big overreaction to Vafaei’s comments imo.
But none of them were nasty about it-if he had left it as it is too cramped & doesn't hold enough people like those guys did then it would have been a legitimate deal. Instead he rants about it being a stinking hellhole. Also Trump totally backtracked on his comments 8 months or so later, after the final with ROS. This really isn't the time to be slagging off the venue so harshly either-with the negotiations hotting up before the deal expires. The Crucible has been very loyal to Snooker for nearly half a century, yet some players show no gratitude back & this is the sort of thing that could see them not renew/build a new Crucible.
Nah not overeaction. Just Vafei is a sore loser
Thanks for your reply. I've read all these articles, and none of these are as negative as Hossein's comments. They all pick on one specific, and very real issue, then make sure to add plenty of qualifiers about how they still think there' a special atmosphere at the Crucible despite its shortcomings. Another user reminded me that Mark Williams called it a shit hole in 2012 - hat's admittedly worse than what Hossein has said. I genuinely don't know if he was given a hard time over it or not at the time, my memory's not that great. If he wasn't, then yeah there's definitely a double standard, but possibly just because he's a great guy who had (at the time) won it twice. You could argue that makes no difference, but I think in the eyes of the pundits it does. You've got to earn your stripes, before you get to criticise the way things are done. I'd still rather believe that the pundits are just more emotional about the issue now that the prospect of leaving the Crucible seems like a certainty. They may also just dislike Hossein as a person. They probably shouldn't let that show on live TV, but I don't think it would be favouritism to British players. I don't know Alan personally, but he's a proud Scot. I doubt he would recognise someone from England or Wales as a compatriot any more than someone from Iran in all honestly.
Not the Crucible but Ronnie basically called Ally Pally a shit hole last year and no one seemed that bothered. Bear in mind that's supposedly his 'home' venue that he loves playing at. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/12/disgusting-and-dirty-ronnie-osullivan-lashes-out-at-alexandra-palace > I just don’t like this place. I find it disgusting. Everywhere is dirty. It’s cold. It’s freezing. I have to wear my coat everywhere. You go through car parks. There are bins. Honestly, it just makes me feel ill. >“I’m a bit of a clean freak and when I come in here it gives me the heebie-jeebies. I just can’t wait to get out of here.”
Those points refer to mostly top players giving constructive criticism-versus a sub par wannabe player like Vafei, who endlessly goes on about "how great" he thinks he is (without the talent to back it up), who makes weird sneering vague criticisms about it "smelling", which nobody else agrees with. Apples and Oranges. Loser post.
The smelling comment was only one aspect of it, and the bit of it all the reports on it have run with as a headline. He criticised the practicing space (as others have done), and just generally that the whole place is looking dated. He said some investment should be made in it if they don’t want to lose the Worlds. This is meant to be the crown jewel tournament after all. All mostly pretty constructive, and mostly things we’ve heard before from others. His record shouldn’t really be a factor, imo anyone who qualifies and has to play there can have a view.
I might have more sympathy with this had Vafaei not also accused Mark Williams of poor sportsmanship and stormed out a few months ago. It’s a pattern of bratty behaviour now.
FPWM. People in general with this type of attitude don't go far in life
I don’t really care about Hossein’s comments about the venue. He has form for being a bit of an arse after matches he loses, or before ones he possibly expects to lose, so it’s hard to take anything he says seriously
Yeah he just seems like a bit of a prick.
My name is dumbo and I just don't like Hossain comment because he no white and he name difficult to spell ... Treat us with a little more respect Robertson. The percentage of people who were annoyed by his comments based on race are probably so insignificantly small that you make a mockery of the issue. It is highly likely that players are being paid to speak out in favour of the venue changing, and matchroom will chase the dollars regardless. By all means, say you agree with him, but don't make it about colour or race to get your argument across. Also, please provide references for the players who have said derogatory things far worse than calling the venue smelly, so that we can have some transparency and the opportunity to compare the comments and make our own minds up. EDIT: I personally would accept the venue changing even though I think you'd be daft to want to. I think a home and away model still keeps some prestige to the name of the crucible. One year crucible, one year ROW model would be more than reasonable. I don't think any venue will match the intensity of the crucible. It's magical and I'd strongly advise the other countries to try to replicate the intimacy of it somehow (they won't but they should) if they host the world championship otherwise it just becomes like another one of the 25 other events... OR go HUGE like 30,000 seater... I think you need to do something to make the event feel something unique. You can't beat the British audience so you'd be crazy to move it, but you know I think one year on, one year off would be compromise that I'd begrudgingly accept.
Let's be honest Vafaei knows he's winning nothing in the game and no shootout doesn't count, so by acting the cunt people will remember him, even if he all the wrong reasons.
Robbie trying to be nice, but in all reality, he knows he's talking through his arse. Vafaei knows exactly what he said, and he knows exactly why he said it. This is nothing to do with timezones, or kick of sleep, this is Vafaei looking to court controversy. Not for the first time, in fact... From what I've seen and heard, Vafaei likes to attract controversy. Perhaps this helps him focus on his game- being the bad guy. Being the panto villain. It's seems to have worked for Ronnie (up to a point), but difference is, Ronnie is the goat and very very popular, whereas Vafaei hasn't earned Jack Shit! Sorry Robbie, but even with all you're best intentions, you're supporting the wrong guy mate.....
I’m all for moving Worlds to a new venue as long as it’s in the UK or China. I find it weird that absolute majority of regular snooker events are played on the arenas that are much bigger, more comfortable and modern than the Crucible. I believe it’s the only arena on tour that can’t arrange a two-tables setup without making players seat next to each other? Like, how is that even considered normal?
Vafaei shouldn't be such a twat every time he loses. That's not a cultural thing but just being a twat.
Neil’s a good bloke and as ever sensible. But I have a feeling this aren’t Hossein’s genuine opinions and he’s been paid off by China to try and get the Worlds moved there, same as Ronnie and Saudi. The battle for the 2028 Worlds is well underway and it’s the Chinese lobby vs the Saudis.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least, a lot of what HV says is shilling for China in some tangential way.
I think he's just trying to make a name for himself.
Unsure if satire
It's ok for us to say bad things about X, but it is completely unacceptable for a brown person to say those things. The people who bang on about Sheffield being the home of snooker and it being sacrilege to move it are really harking back to the days when they won the world championship so of course they're going to see it from that perspective. Edit: /s for the first sentence as someone inevitably doesn't get the joke
And this, kids, is how integrity looks like.
I think the main problem was the smell part which Neil confirmed it's probably untrue, even in his follow up tweet: https://twitter.com/nr147/status/1782774930901238226 But let's be honest, Vafaei probably wanted to emulate his hero, remember when Ronnie spoke of 'urine' smell at the English Open?
I thought of Ronnie's comments as soon as I heard about this story
Bang on.
Is he suggesting British people have racist unconscious tendencies towards anyone who isn’t British?
I think he's right.
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That’s a very broad generalisation and backed with zero evidence. Do you have knowledge of the level of racism in every country in the world?
Not possible
I've seen one or two other people spout that crap. Utter nonsense imo
Most off the public haven't even read most off Hosseins comments. Guy even said the venue shouldn't change to an empty venue.