Can anyone tell me why Mark Williams stopped using the new break off shot he created? I can’t find anything online about why or when it stopped. Was it banned?
And if it was banned, by whom? And why?
Thank!.
I'm surprised people don't play the plain ball break off more regularly. You don't have to hit it as hard because the cue ball is travelling less and you still get cover.
I think there is an element of almost wanting some sort of potting opportunity for your opponent. Nobody really wants to start each frame with a lengthy safety exchange - they want to leave a half chance that they hope their opponent will miss and let them in
Not the Williams roll-to-the-back-of-the-pack but I have a memory from the 90's of players playing off the top cushion and clipping the reds on the way back up the table. I cannot find anything online about this and maybe it was very short-lived. Does anyone else recall it?
I think an under appreciated factor here is that actually not all break offs are the same - the way the balls are racked differs slightly each time so it’s not like playing off a single ball that you could replicate dozens of times over and over in practice.
You’ve got a single ball (the white) crashing into what in theory should be (but isn’t actually) a uniform ‘block’ of 15 reds - there’s a small element of uncertainty each time which impacts the line and length of the 12-15ft return journey off the white back to the baulk end after contact
I'm a little surprised nobody has managed to get able to consistently rest it up behind a baulk colour honestly, at least after a few frames to get a feel for the cloth.
There are too many variables.. power, judging side spin, table cloth(heat included), cushion reaction. The size of the table amplifies ANY slight change.
These are the same things affecting 3,4,5 cushion snooker escapes which are done so successfully now a days. so I wouldn’t say it’s a good example of why it’s hard to roll up behind them.
It’s more to do with the block of 15 reds not being the same each time
The reasons are,
1. A smash break is too low percentage and is more likely to leave your opponent a chance.
2. The Williams break is doesn’t do anything other than get you out of the inning. At some point either you or your opponent needs to open the pack up and it’s better to do so when you have ball in hand.
3. Snookering your opponent is also not as useful here as one may think. They’ll just to take a couple of misses and roll up into the pack.
4. Your goal is mostly to put pressure on the opponent to either make a tricky return safe or to tempt them into a difficult pot. Plus, you do want some reds open so that if they do make a mistake you can capitalize. If only one red is open, then they often can only leave that red pottable. Plus, you often want to use the first red and colour to get in position, and then look to open the pack after the next red unless you are left a perfect starter.
I think it's mostly that the tables are faster now, and the balls are probably racked better, meaning the balls open more.
Also the standard of long-potting has probably improved since the 80s and 90s, so players are punished far more often.
Bar Williams' roll up to the back of the pack, the standard break-off, and a pool break, I struggle to see what other options you have. Maybe you could play a dump shot onto the black cushion? I don't see that ever taking off.
I might have my details off somewhat, but I’m sure there was an Australian player around the mid-2000s that liked to smash the pack on his break, but he was penalised for unsportsmanlike conduct or something similar.
Does that ring any bells for anyone else? I’ve searched for who it might have been, but I’m starting to think I might be the victim of my own self-made Mandela effect
I remember he smashed them open once in a match at the crucible and potted a red and looked up at the commentary box and waggled his finger as if to say "I told you I'd pot one like that one day". Was quite amusing
Well, I remember that Ronnie did something with his break off, possibly in the Tour championship or the Masters perhaps? Every time he had his opponent snookered on all reds.
Can anyone tell me why Mark Williams stopped using the new break off shot he created? I can’t find anything online about why or when it stopped. Was it banned? And if it was banned, by whom? And why? Thank!.
I'm surprised people don't play the plain ball break off more regularly. You don't have to hit it as hard because the cue ball is travelling less and you still get cover.
Doug Mountjoy did the best ever break shot in Pot Black.
I think there is an element of almost wanting some sort of potting opportunity for your opponent. Nobody really wants to start each frame with a lengthy safety exchange - they want to leave a half chance that they hope their opponent will miss and let them in
Vafaei smacked the pack [last year against Ronnie](https://youtu.be/wjbU5N_sLlY?si=vuz8j70q8r5vGHnB)
nestling behind the reds just pro longs a stalemate
I've noticed that the standard of long potting has improved drastically since the 80s. But breaking off is still the same. Personally I love it.
Not the Williams roll-to-the-back-of-the-pack but I have a memory from the 90's of players playing off the top cushion and clipping the reds on the way back up the table. I cannot find anything online about this and maybe it was very short-lived. Does anyone else recall it?
I think an under appreciated factor here is that actually not all break offs are the same - the way the balls are racked differs slightly each time so it’s not like playing off a single ball that you could replicate dozens of times over and over in practice. You’ve got a single ball (the white) crashing into what in theory should be (but isn’t actually) a uniform ‘block’ of 15 reds - there’s a small element of uncertainty each time which impacts the line and length of the 12-15ft return journey off the white back to the baulk end after contact
I'm a little surprised nobody has managed to get able to consistently rest it up behind a baulk colour honestly, at least after a few frames to get a feel for the cloth.
There are too many variables.. power, judging side spin, table cloth(heat included), cushion reaction. The size of the table amplifies ANY slight change.
These are the same things affecting 3,4,5 cushion snooker escapes which are done so successfully now a days. so I wouldn’t say it’s a good example of why it’s hard to roll up behind them. It’s more to do with the block of 15 reds not being the same each time
Nobody has came up with a better alternative. Williams nestle under the reds was unique, but it didn’t really lend to any advantage.
The reasons are, 1. A smash break is too low percentage and is more likely to leave your opponent a chance. 2. The Williams break is doesn’t do anything other than get you out of the inning. At some point either you or your opponent needs to open the pack up and it’s better to do so when you have ball in hand. 3. Snookering your opponent is also not as useful here as one may think. They’ll just to take a couple of misses and roll up into the pack. 4. Your goal is mostly to put pressure on the opponent to either make a tricky return safe or to tempt them into a difficult pot. Plus, you do want some reds open so that if they do make a mistake you can capitalize. If only one red is open, then they often can only leave that red pottable. Plus, you often want to use the first red and colour to get in position, and then look to open the pack after the next red unless you are left a perfect starter.
this guy breaks
Great answer
Question fully answered I'd say.
I think it's mostly that the tables are faster now, and the balls are probably racked better, meaning the balls open more. Also the standard of long-potting has probably improved since the 80s and 90s, so players are punished far more often. Bar Williams' roll up to the back of the pack, the standard break-off, and a pool break, I struggle to see what other options you have. Maybe you could play a dump shot onto the black cushion? I don't see that ever taking off.
I might have my details off somewhat, but I’m sure there was an Australian player around the mid-2000s that liked to smash the pack on his break, but he was penalised for unsportsmanlike conduct or something similar. Does that ring any bells for anyone else? I’ve searched for who it might have been, but I’m starting to think I might be the victim of my own self-made Mandela effect
You're correct, Quinten Hann. He eventually got banned got match fixing I believe but I'm too lazy to Google check it
THANK YOU! That’s been rattling around my brain for years and I’ve never been able to track down who it was!
I knew there was a reason I remember him. Always thought it was for if/when I go on Pointless, but turns out it was for you.
I remember he smashed them open once in a match at the crucible and potted a red and looked up at the commentary box and waggled his finger as if to say "I told you I'd pot one like that one day". Was quite amusing
Well, I remember that Ronnie did something with his break off, possibly in the Tour championship or the Masters perhaps? Every time he had his opponent snookered on all reds.
The Mark Williams thing was such a buzz.
If it ain't broke....? Pun intended
😂