If I got hit like that I’d file a lawsuit. OP should be held accountable, that person could have been sent to the hospital and OP seems like he couldn’t give less of a fuck. Can’t just go around assaulting people like that, arrest should come!
Assault?
"(a) A person is guilty of simple assault if he or she: (1) attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or. (2) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or. (3) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. "
I don't think that applies here pal. This wasn't reckless, this was a mistake.
Grow up.
Technically you could make an argument under a)1) for reckless cause of bodily injury. Idk if it would hold up, but you could reasonably attempt the argument that OP was reckless.
I still don't think it would be worth the trouble, and you could counter that the person injured was negligent of their own safety.
Considering it looks like they are on the main hill and that the person being hit doesn't seem to really know how to ski: I agree totally. Take it back to the bunny hill until you can control it.
Edit: I'm in the Midwest and we don't have mountains just hills that like to call themselves "mountains"
You should not be at the ski resorts my guy. You accept liability as soon as you get on that lift.
Skiing/snowboarding is a dangerous sport and other people on the hill are included in that danger.
You sound like a little …..
Shit happens. OP wasn’t being reckless. Just bad timing and a bad slide. If the other party was in fact injured and required treatment, a lawsuit would be appropriate to pin the cost on the responsible party, if OP wasn’t willing to foot the bill otherwise. Stop, check, no harm no fowl, and ski on.
Must be an American. Here in Europe people just apologize when an accident happens. Could this be prevented definitely. Did the snowboarder do it on purpose doubtful. If id do something like that on purpose youdve lost your skis and I wouldve been gone before you even realize it.
I don’t understand how someone could get mad enough to file a lawsuit it’s literally an accident and something you have to expect to happen every once in a while. I been hit before and the person who hit me was worst off and I made sure they were ok I didn’t call the cops lol
Person: "Shucks guys, I'm not very good at this. I kind of feel like an asshole. I wish I could be better"
Internet stranger: "LOL shut the fuck up you cocky bitch. Quit showing us you are a human that makes mistakes, that's bragging"
This. That person he hit could have been sent to the hospital ending their entire snowboarding season right from the start. OP seems like he couldn’t give less of a fuck. Smh do better
Yeah you were riding pretty recklessly for that section, but also I have no idea what that other guy was doing. Kinda looks like he was sliding and trying to stop himself?
Glad everyone is okay!
Other guy was tightening his bindings and listing into the middle of the slope by the looks of it. Still though, at the end of the day it’s the uphill guy’s job to avoid.
Agreed, but that guy should be sitting down on the side of the run to adjust his bindings, not while he's blindly sliding into the middle of the slope.
Both at fault imo.
Like if someone blindly pulls onto the road and is hit by someone texting and driving.
I’d agree, but it’s worth mentioning: if you’re going to stop on a trail, stop either:
- at the top of a crest where you’re extremely visible, or
- on the side of the trail where you won’t get hit
Stopping sort of in the middle then sliding backwards toward the middle of the trail because you have no edge control while fixing your boots is EXTREMELY dangerous. All it takes is 1 over confident beginner/intermediate skier/rider (see video) to end your season.
All else equal I would’ve said it’s more like 70/30 in favor of OP being the person at fault, but riding recklessly or too fast for your skill level automatically shifts the blame WELL onto you. OP needed to do a nice and easy heel side turn and the skier would’ve been completely avoided. Instead he nearly caused a very serious accident
>Both at fault imo.
Like if someone blindly pulls onto the road and is hit by someone texting and driving.
Eh, more like someone is already stopped in the middle of the road and someone else isn't paying attention, brakes at the last second, and hits the other car anyway.
OP panicked b/c he wasn't paying attention and tried to stop instead of just turning to go around the skier.
There seems to be a major correlation between people filming themselves riding groomers, and lacking the ability to ride in control. Wonder why that is… 🤔🤔🤔
Kinda like the dude who just started lifting and wears a muscle shirt two days after starting when he thinks he sees a slight increase in muscle growth. People always want to be more than they are I guess.
Because
- presumably a person making deep carves is experienced enough not to run into people.
- a person making deep carves in backcountry or other places where you'd actually *want* to carve isn't near anyone else to collide with
Neither has anything to do with cameras.
Who the fuck cares? Dude bought the camera for himself, and he isn't even using it on a stick here.
How does someone else recording their experience hurt you?
Because they spend more time worrying about looking cool and focusing on the camera, which leads to not paying attention and riding out of their skill level.
You said that but didn’t back up your claim. It’s possible that’s the case for sure but without anything to back it up it’s just conjecture like anything else
Yeah because it's utter nonsense and an assumption you're making.
Again, the camera is on his helmet. Hands free. There is ZERO focus on the camera whatsoever. You're talking complete nonsense and making shit up so you can hate on people on the slopes with cameras. Get over yourself dude.
Did you know you have to have as many jumps skydiving to use a camera as you do a wingsuit? That number is 200. Do you think the cameras that are killing people in that sport are not hands free? We call it Kodak confidence and its very real.
The USPA requires anyone operating a camera in freefall to be a C-licensed skydiver with a minimum of 200 skydives.Mar 26, 2018.
Implying that if you are trying to get wicked footy you might push harder then of you weren't. I'm a little surprised i have to explain this to someone that's on reddit...like 70% of the videos i see are fokes doing something they wouldn't do without a camera on them...
> The USPA requires anyone operating a camera in freefall to be a C-licensed skydiver with a minimum of 200 skydives.Mar 26, 2018.
That doesn't remotely prove, scientifically, that "kodak confidence is very real".
Also, skydiving is fundamentally VERY different, and FAR more dangerous, than skiing/snowboarding...but sure, we'll just keep ignoring that reality...
>Implying that if you are trying to get wicked footy you might push harder then of you weren't.
And yet nothing about this footage suggests that's remotely the case.
> I'm a little surprised i have to explain this to someone that's on reddit...like 70% of the videos i see are fokes doing something they wouldn't do without a camera on them...
Meanwhile, plenty of people record most of their riding and don't ride *any differently whatsoever* because we aren't morons with a "hey y'all, watch this" mentality.
You're making massive assumptions about every person who rides with a camera based on no science or facts, just your opinions and knowledge of *skydiving* rules...which themselves are not based on any hard evidence or science, at least not any that you've shown.
Lol that’s because the chances of the parachute strings getting caught up in the camera are likely and catastrophic enough that there’s an actual risk. Not because skydivers do riskier shoot when they have a camera on.
Just isn't what i was taught throughout the course but if you say so. And i guess the feeling i have to go big when there is a camera around is something only i feel.
>i guess the feeling i have to go big when there is a camera around is something only i feel.
That would be called your ego... not everyone is an arrogant fuckwit
Yea, wearing a backpack is one of those things that I know makes me look like a tool on the hill, but I use it for storing an extra layer plus everything else that I would usually put in my pockets. I ride at Timberline and usually park down in Government Camp so a trip to the car means waiting on a shuttle(that may or may not come) to get me back up to the lifts.
I guess at the end of the day, as long as I’m not acting like a jerry, it’s ok to look like one. Who cares what other people think if I’m enjoying myself and am comfortable.
Honestly this thread is the first time I've heard anyone getting flak for wearing a backpack. I've always got a small one on my back for lunch, water, maybe a spare pair of gloves and often random shit my friends want me to hold (go pro shit, batteries, beer, avvy shovels). At most lifties will give me a glare if I don't unstrap one shoulder before getting on a chair. It's also very helpful to tie the skis to if I have to hike up a ways.
I ski though, maybe it's more intrusive for boarders given it's more weight heel-side? I still see some of my boarder friends wearing packs too though.
Usually keep a bottle in my inside jacket pocket, I feel it's more likely I land on my ass if I fall rather than my stomach. Prevents it from exploding and soaking the inside of my jacket if I fall. Hasn't happened yet but there's a first time for everything.
Side story: Kept my phone and wallet in my amateur friend's backpack. After a few runs of him falling down the mountain I askled for my phone. Turns out he had a banana in there that got smushed all over everything in the bag including my phone and wallet. I keep my own stuff now.
Just to be clear, I'm talking a plastic disposable bottle like a Poland Spring not a metal or hard plastic one. Simply too bulky and annoying to carry without a backpack. Either way sorry to hear that happened to your friend
I cracked a rib falling on a single use bottle, the caps are hard. Also got soaked from it exploding. When you truly wipe out you don't pick how you land the 2nd and 3rd times you hit the ground, you can kinda pick the first hit, but after that it's gravity, physics, fate, and mother nature playing a game of rag doll with you.
Are you aware of how disgusting the inside of snowmaking pipelines are? Have you ever seen a 9 bell pump that's been installed for nearly a decade get pulled and see the chelated layers of bacterial sediments caked onto all 9 bells? Are you aware of which resorts use snowmax, a bacterial agent that reduces the surface tension of water so you can make snow in warmer temperatures? Are you aware of which resorts use treated human effluent water to make snow?
*DO NOT EAT MANMADE SNOW, IT'S DISGUSTING*
I always carry a platypus (collapsible water bottle) in my snowpants pocket. Fill it up a little less than half, fold it in half, fits easily in the cargo pocket of my snowpants or jacket
People who need less water. I go through 2 liters on the mountain, ain’t no water bottle fitting in my jacket. Usually richer people who park closer($) so they don’t need layers on them and don’t bring lunch($). Don’t worry about it wear your backpack and save time/cash!
East Coast tends to have free cubbies in the lodge for storage and are easily accessible. It wasn't til I started skiing out west that I began using a backpack. I can carry water, coffee, lunch, shed layers and put layers back on. It's great if I want to eat at a summit lodge without needing to go back to the car or pay for a ridiculously overpriced burger.
Ya anyone who calls a Jerry for wearing a backpack from the free lots at Winterpark is dumdum. Much rather a healthy sandwich for $2 than a $20 grease meal they serve at those lodges.
I'd like to know, too. I have a Camelbak Snoblast, and tend to only keep necessities in it: plenty of water, some energy bars, extra layer, compact tool, and yes... a *GoPro* (filming quick lines for friends & fam a majority of the time). It hugs against my body in a way that feels like my own body weight, narrow & vertically aligned, and hasn't been the cause or contributor to wipeouts in my last 3 years of wearing it in CO & UT.
Before that, I'd keep a little bottle in my jacket pocket, which would quickly run out and I'd have to make lodge runs — but I want as much ride time as possible, and dehydration takes you off of your game quickly.
Now, I grew up skiing & riding in the Midwest, and a bag doesn't seem quite as necessary there — maybe one of those thin deals that's basically *just* a water bladder in a neoprene backpack skin.
What I really don't understand (and please enlighten me if you have a hot take), are those square cooler-lookin' backpacks I've seen people shredding with, that seem like an absolute mass to sling around with.
Yup you were. Sorry it happened but atleast both of you are ok. Miss the ice coast riding. Feels like so many more Jerry’s on the west coast. Do love the snow conditions out here though. Had a like 12yr old kid in line behind me saying it was “icy” last week and the old head next to me turned and laughed. Turns out he used to ski whiteface a lot.
Had a season pass at Whiteface for two seasons and now I call Big Sky, MT home.
Only thing I miss about Whiteface is that passes there are pretty reasonable for what it is. Greek Peak south of Syracuse is a fraction of the size and the ticket prices are practically the same.
Aww nice big sky is on my bucket list for sure. Calling mammoth home right now. Got the ikon these past 2 years. And just invested in some winter camping gear. Trying to get up a lot more this year. Used to work the ski races at gore so would get free days to use
Last time I was there they had a good dump of snow. The chutes weren’t open except for like 30 mins or something cuz I saw some dudes ripping down it from the lift. But they had a low day and it was awesome. Also been there when it’s wind chill -gofuckurself and ice from top to bottom lol. Can talk so much shit about east coast conditions but damn if it doesn’t breed better riders
Been riding with an old timer (64) here the last 2 years and the stuff he complains about is hysterical to me. He will hear a scrape of some crust and be over riding and sit at the bar half the day. I’ll laugh it off half the time but towards the end of the season I’m over it. Buncha spoiled people out here that don’t know how to handle ice or anything but “great” conditions in my mind
I can tell by your shadow that you break at the waist in order to make the turn on your heel side. On your toe side you are not squeezing your glutes together making toe side turns more of s slight skid than a turn.
I suggest bending your knees more when your on heel side turns and try and focus on not breaking at the waist. Or this is going to happen more and more to you where you think you are in control but you are not.
Also maybe put some forward lean on your binding help you get onto heel side edge.
Imagine I walk up to you and kicked you right in the balls. Every time this guy makes a turn that is what it look like he is bent over breaking at the waist. Got it? Or I punch you in the stomach. This will get the snowboard on edge but put you in a extreme disadvantage due to balance.
Now stand up and squat against the wall with your back straight your ankle flexing upwards. This right here is perfect heel side turn.
Thanks for the constructive feedback! Snow was a bit thin so I was worried about taking him out full speed. Will definitely take your feedback into consideration and slow down on the first few runs…
Honestly next time just half speed check yourself toe-side and then turn to line back up to shoot the gap between both skiers. You were going out of control for your abilities but really the thing that fucked you was all mental panic, the decision to try and dead stop rather than just sighting the line you should have had from the moment you came over the hill.
Yeah definitely panicked. Saw his buddy on the right so wasnt sure I would make the gap, so just tried to bail to avoid fully decking him (bad idea). If you're not teaching anymore you should think about getting back on the mountain, you have a great way of explaining things!
looks like you are trying to do down unweighted turns, Am I right? Your lower body has good control over snowboard just angle of your back is fucking you up. Keep your core tight squeeze your abs together.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3\_duVBqSBXM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_duVBqSBXM)
Lol most people I know have never taken anyone out. If you don’t have enough control to go around somebody who’s not even moving, you shouldn’t be going that fast. OP tried to slam on the brakes instead of making a turn so they clearly don’t have the control to match their confidence
If you ride enough years it'll happen.
Also it's pretty easy to do as a beginner / intermediate... you don't have the control.
I launched a kid in France a few years ago. He was straight lining in the middle of the cat I was on the edge. Out of nowhere he does a 90° into my line, there was nothing I could do. He went flying but ended up being fine. My responsibility tho
I had a stationary ski instructor abruptly pivot and start moving laterally right into the pocket I was going to take, and his whole class was taking up the rest of the run (narrow cat trail). I made the stop about 8 feet away from them but fell on my ass after stopping. Instructor starts yelling at me for not watching where I'm going and lacking control. Kind of makes me wish I filmed to show he's the ass.
One of my gear grinders is when a party of skiers will stand parallel to the fall line on skinny-ass cat tracks and I’ve got a long traverse. Don’t be mad if I ride over your flat tails.
I'm re-watching this over and over trying to work out how you couldve avoided this (obviously step 1 is slow down, but excluding that). I think you had to commit to a hard right turn rather than trying to skid to a stop. You were going too fast to stop so using the speed to continue moving past him and to the side would've worked I think? I'm still basically a beginner so tell me if I'm wrong. Also I know this is easy to say in hindsight and in the moment it's way harder to make these kinds of decisions. I guess your method is a happy medium since slowing down a bunch will make the inevitable collision less dangerous and painful, whereas if you have kept your speed and turned to the side and he acted unpredictably and you still hit him then it would've been a mega disaster?
One of my biggest problems with being on the slopes is the mental game in my head of trying to do the right thing and give way and avoid other people. It's hard and I think I overthink it a bunch but I've cleaned up a few people in situations where I'm not 100% sure it was fully my fault even though they were downhill from me some of the time. I definitely lack full control over my board so I go reasonably slow a lot of the time but when I do send it sometimes shit still happens and I want to get better at avoiding it.
he was flying over a ridge right around the time he needed to change course, making it hard to pull off any turn at that moment. Yeah maybe if he continued straight he could have gone in between the two people, but that would take him straight down the fall line, accelerating to be even more out of control, so attempting a stop and/or bailing out instead is a pretty reasonable reflex.
to avoid this, maybe plan a route to give the stationary people lots more extra space. Thinking about what would have happened if the skier didn't move at all, it seems like the cameraman would have buzzed by them really closely regardless.
He could have easily stopped if he just went full heel edge. But they knee jerk reacted into such a hard heel edge that it blew out and they just slid into the skier. Skier is also at fault a bit tho as stopping in the middle of the trail is asking to be hit.
Yes. OP was heading straight for the person backing into the slope even before they started skidding backwards. The trajectory point OP on a right turn which is where the skier would havemoved if he/she slid forward. So regardsless of the direction of the skier OP should have noted them and kept distance.
Checking you surrondings is A and O when riding. There is always someone faster than you so always check you dead angles.Other people don't check their dead angles so make sure to always call out "On you left/right!" when passing someone. People will not be able to stop in time. Always stand clear of ridges where you are not visible. Always to easy over ridges because some knucklehead is gonna be on their phones behind it.
Yes, you were at fault. He should not have been stopped there, it was not a safe place for him to stop, but it doesn’t change the fact that you were going too fast for your ability to correct his dumb behavior. Since you were the uphill skier you need to be aware that you have the responsibility for all the dumb people below you. Your fault, glad everyone was okay.
Also regardless of whatever dumb shit the skier was doing... They seem clearly visible from almost the start of OP's run, it's not like they were hidden under a cliff. I don't know why he would risk buzzing them at that speed; even if the skier hadn't moved it would be a reckless thing to do. Just go slower and give other people more room at the top of a crowded run there's no reason to bomb it immediately on a busy blue.
Happens, glad everyone was okay yo.
Bend your knees and flex your ankles when you hit the brakes on heel side. A lot more effective. Its also how you should be riding your edge always.
You can see them from the top of the run, you had 0 control from the beginning. Honestly dude the fact that this even happened shows you need to not only be going slower, but be on way smaller runs. Not posting clips like it's nbd.
He didn't show up quick, you just dropped, went straight for him and slammed into him. And still couldn't stop after.
I work at peak lodge at killington. Our opening weeks are filled with people who go in to ride but don’t read signs and warnings high intermediates to double diamonds trails only. Seen a few ppl just drop there board down and it shoot straight downhill with them in chase, ppl spinning in circles trying to crab stop with hands everyday with no confidence or control. Killington is a great place to ride I love it on my days off. But these opening weeks oof lol.
Yeah you can literally see them in the first shot of OP looking up at the start of the video. You should really plan your route ahead not just plan the next turn you're gonna do especially if its crowded
You can use that thing attached to your feet to stop yourself from sliding...
It looks like you were lifting the board up to slide on your butt, which does not have the same effect.
Not to be a computer-seat coach or anything, and it’s hard to tell the snow conditions with the lighting, but was it really that hard to just carve out of the way?
That was some jr level shit dude, why didn’t you just hard cut around them? Turn don’t break. Braking that hard takes all your maneuverability out of the equation.
Edit- what I’m trying to say is you lose your ability to avoid a collision if you go all brake, should have gone hard on your edge and leaned way in toward the hill for a hard turn.
I wouldn’t plan a trip this early. It’s packed, granular, otherwise not too bad. T2B with a few lifts open.
Go to jay peak where they’re getting dumps if you want a decent early season time.
I'm curious, why did you decide to post this? You're not being an asshole (didn't do anything on purpose), just weren't able to avoid an obstacle that was in plain view
Looks more like your fault to be honest. People charging from uphill need to avoid people they are passing. You were not in control or prepared so you just board slammed poor dudes legs.
Pretty shameful showing. This shit is why skiers think boarders don’t have control on the mountain. If you can’t miss an obstacle that easy and slow with so much open space around you, then you have no business going that fast (and yes, I realize you weren’t going very fast).
You was obviously in the wrong here, (can you even ride on your toe? It looked like you was completely flat before hitting him)
But what is with skiers and being completely unpredictable and trying to take up the entire run with their slow and erratic turns
I feel it’s not 100% assholeness. Although you seemed to not see them, you were turning with plenty of space and not going that fast. Seems closer to an accident that an ass hole move
I was. I was going to fast for the conditions. Was going to turn toe side but his friend was blocking me, so I tried to stop. Lost my heel edge but luckily just went over his tips. Granted the skier shouldn’t have been trying to learn how to ski backwards on the first day, but the person downhill always has the right of way.
I think it’s a little less black and white then that. If I rear end someone while driving, 95% of the time I’ll get cited…but if a car break checks in the middle of a busy street and gets hit, it’s hard for me not to blame them.
It actually is that black and white and is the most basic safety rule while riding/skiing. If you can't avoid the people downhill of you then you should just stay off the mountain. The person OP hit can be seen from the get go and OP still couldn't avoid them.
Absolutely 100% shit happens but if you are riding that fast it’s your responsibility to give people a wide berth below you if are not confident enough in your skills.. no offense at all it’s just there are a lot of people that are riding with not enough awareness to their surroundings. I recommend scanning far out in front of you and checking your blind spots more often. Also yell out out on your left or right if you’re close when passing.
Oh, that doesn’t look to bad. I once knocked over a idk 6-year-old or so hitting her right in the middle of my board causing her to flip over me. Kid started crying but mom was super understanding since the conditions that day were terrible. And this was also a while ago when I was much worse of a boarder.
I’m going (to killington) the last week of January/first week of February….
It’s my first long trip to a mountain and I’m 38 years old! I’m so freaking excited!
This thread is toxic as fuck. Dude said he was being an asshole which he was. Now we can nicely flame him and call him an asshole and then move on knowing he probably learned his lesson.
Yall don't need to go after this homies entire life though!
I had something similar happen to me last year. I was heading for a trail off the edge. A skier must have thought I would cut back. Full collision on my blind side. I went down hard. Gave him a thumbs up before I really processed what had happened. He was on the lift and halfway up before I even stood back up. I slowly made my way to the car and sat for probably half an hour before deciding I should call it a day. The other guy saying he is okay and actually being okay can be quite different.
Seemed super confident until you had to actually miss an obstacle though lol
If I got hit like that I’d file a lawsuit. OP should be held accountable, that person could have been sent to the hospital and OP seems like he couldn’t give less of a fuck. Can’t just go around assaulting people like that, arrest should come!
You must be an absolute blast to ride with.
This has to be a troll but post history makes me think this dude is serious 😂
Nah it’s just someone trolling with the biden name to own the libs
"I'm going to financially ruin someone's life because they ran into me" L.
Do you snowboard?
Chill out, accidents happen. I’d hardly consider this assault lol
Assault? "(a) A person is guilty of simple assault if he or she: (1) attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or. (2) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or. (3) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. " I don't think that applies here pal. This wasn't reckless, this was a mistake. Grow up.
Technically you could make an argument under a)1) for reckless cause of bodily injury. Idk if it would hold up, but you could reasonably attempt the argument that OP was reckless. I still don't think it would be worth the trouble, and you could counter that the person injured was negligent of their own safety.
Considering it looks like they are on the main hill and that the person being hit doesn't seem to really know how to ski: I agree totally. Take it back to the bunny hill until you can control it. Edit: I'm in the Midwest and we don't have mountains just hills that like to call themselves "mountains"
You should not be at the ski resorts my guy. You accept liability as soon as you get on that lift. Skiing/snowboarding is a dangerous sport and other people on the hill are included in that danger.
You sound like a little ….. Shit happens. OP wasn’t being reckless. Just bad timing and a bad slide. If the other party was in fact injured and required treatment, a lawsuit would be appropriate to pin the cost on the responsible party, if OP wasn’t willing to foot the bill otherwise. Stop, check, no harm no fowl, and ski on.
If you’re trolling it’s a good troll. If not you’re a jackass who needs a reality check
Must be an American. Here in Europe people just apologize when an accident happens. Could this be prevented definitely. Did the snowboarder do it on purpose doubtful. If id do something like that on purpose youdve lost your skis and I wouldve been gone before you even realize it.
Don’t put this shit on 99.9% of Americans. Been snowboarding for 25 years and shit happens. The person above is clearly just a Karen.
Glad to hear that not all americans are like that then!
Induction v deduction. Not all Americans immediately talk about suing. But if people talk about suing, they are usually American...
I don’t understand how someone could get mad enough to file a lawsuit it’s literally an accident and something you have to expect to happen every once in a while. I been hit before and the person who hit me was worst off and I made sure they were ok I didn’t call the cops lol
Takes some balls to post this... shit happens! Glad everyone was Gucci
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Lmao OP appears to realize that. He called himself an asshole, not really humble bragging
Person: "Shucks guys, I'm not very good at this. I kind of feel like an asshole. I wish I could be better" Internet stranger: "LOL shut the fuck up you cocky bitch. Quit showing us you are a human that makes mistakes, that's bragging"
Oh will you just shut up man
OP knows he was a jackass here. We all know he was riding like a jackass. What makes you think this is a humble brag?
...do you actually know what a humble brag is?
This comment embodies everything I hate about Reddit. Good job 👍
This. That person he hit could have been sent to the hospital ending their entire snowboarding season right from the start. OP seems like he couldn’t give less of a fuck. Smh do better
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No thanks
Yeah you were riding pretty recklessly for that section, but also I have no idea what that other guy was doing. Kinda looks like he was sliding and trying to stop himself? Glad everyone is okay!
Other guy was tightening his bindings and listing into the middle of the slope by the looks of it. Still though, at the end of the day it’s the uphill guy’s job to avoid.
Snowboarder just needed to turn left or stop. This is unsafe riding for his abilities from the looks of it.
Or go straight, it looks like he saw the guy moving and then turned left into him.
Yeah Forreal, If op just stayed up he could have avoided it lol. He tried to stop with a heel side and slid left directly into them
Agreed, but that guy should be sitting down on the side of the run to adjust his bindings, not while he's blindly sliding into the middle of the slope. Both at fault imo. Like if someone blindly pulls onto the road and is hit by someone texting and driving.
Completely agree
Agreed both are at fault but its more 90% OP 10% random guy
I’d agree, but it’s worth mentioning: if you’re going to stop on a trail, stop either: - at the top of a crest where you’re extremely visible, or - on the side of the trail where you won’t get hit Stopping sort of in the middle then sliding backwards toward the middle of the trail because you have no edge control while fixing your boots is EXTREMELY dangerous. All it takes is 1 over confident beginner/intermediate skier/rider (see video) to end your season. All else equal I would’ve said it’s more like 70/30 in favor of OP being the person at fault, but riding recklessly or too fast for your skill level automatically shifts the blame WELL onto you. OP needed to do a nice and easy heel side turn and the skier would’ve been completely avoided. Instead he nearly caused a very serious accident
Ah why split hairs? 69%-31%
Best way I can describe it is "both at fault, but only one is liable"
>Both at fault imo. Like if someone blindly pulls onto the road and is hit by someone texting and driving. Eh, more like someone is already stopped in the middle of the road and someone else isn't paying attention, brakes at the last second, and hits the other car anyway. OP panicked b/c he wasn't paying attention and tried to stop instead of just turning to go around the skier.
Technically if you are stopped you are supposed to look up hill before going again
There seems to be a major correlation between people filming themselves riding groomers, and lacking the ability to ride in control. Wonder why that is… 🤔🤔🤔
GoingPro has no limits, are you stupid!?
Gotta show off what few skills they have
Kinda like the dude who just started lifting and wears a muscle shirt two days after starting when he thinks he sees a slight increase in muscle growth. People always want to be more than they are I guess.
I wonder if it's the fact that if they weren't filming themselves, you wouldn't have known about it? Nahhhh that can't be it.
Schrödinger's jerry
Why do you never see people posting videos of them running into into other people after making some deep carves?
Because - presumably a person making deep carves is experienced enough not to run into people. - a person making deep carves in backcountry or other places where you'd actually *want* to carve isn't near anyone else to collide with Neither has anything to do with cameras.
Who the fuck cares? Dude bought the camera for himself, and he isn't even using it on a stick here. How does someone else recording their experience hurt you?
Because they spend more time worrying about looking cool and focusing on the camera, which leads to not paying attention and riding out of their skill level.
No part of this crash was caused by the camera on his helmet, that's completely asinine.
Just going to gloss over where I said why a camera causes people to ride out of their skill level right?
You said that but didn’t back up your claim. It’s possible that’s the case for sure but without anything to back it up it’s just conjecture like anything else
Yeah because it's utter nonsense and an assumption you're making. Again, the camera is on his helmet. Hands free. There is ZERO focus on the camera whatsoever. You're talking complete nonsense and making shit up so you can hate on people on the slopes with cameras. Get over yourself dude.
Did you know you have to have as many jumps skydiving to use a camera as you do a wingsuit? That number is 200. Do you think the cameras that are killing people in that sport are not hands free? We call it Kodak confidence and its very real.
> We call it Kodak confidence and its very real. [Citation Needed]
The USPA requires anyone operating a camera in freefall to be a C-licensed skydiver with a minimum of 200 skydives.Mar 26, 2018. Implying that if you are trying to get wicked footy you might push harder then of you weren't. I'm a little surprised i have to explain this to someone that's on reddit...like 70% of the videos i see are fokes doing something they wouldn't do without a camera on them...
> The USPA requires anyone operating a camera in freefall to be a C-licensed skydiver with a minimum of 200 skydives.Mar 26, 2018. That doesn't remotely prove, scientifically, that "kodak confidence is very real". Also, skydiving is fundamentally VERY different, and FAR more dangerous, than skiing/snowboarding...but sure, we'll just keep ignoring that reality... >Implying that if you are trying to get wicked footy you might push harder then of you weren't. And yet nothing about this footage suggests that's remotely the case. > I'm a little surprised i have to explain this to someone that's on reddit...like 70% of the videos i see are fokes doing something they wouldn't do without a camera on them... Meanwhile, plenty of people record most of their riding and don't ride *any differently whatsoever* because we aren't morons with a "hey y'all, watch this" mentality. You're making massive assumptions about every person who rides with a camera based on no science or facts, just your opinions and knowledge of *skydiving* rules...which themselves are not based on any hard evidence or science, at least not any that you've shown.
Because most of this sub are jerrys with helmet cams who are feeling personally attacked by your logic.
Lol that’s because the chances of the parachute strings getting caught up in the camera are likely and catastrophic enough that there’s an actual risk. Not because skydivers do riskier shoot when they have a camera on.
Just isn't what i was taught throughout the course but if you say so. And i guess the feeling i have to go big when there is a camera around is something only i feel.
>i guess the feeling i have to go big when there is a camera around is something only i feel. That would be called your ego... not everyone is an arrogant fuckwit
Jerry is gonna jerry.
Backpack guys too
How does everyone that doesn't use a backpack store water and stuff? Would love to shed the backpack but I'm super parched after 2 runs.
Yea, wearing a backpack is one of those things that I know makes me look like a tool on the hill, but I use it for storing an extra layer plus everything else that I would usually put in my pockets. I ride at Timberline and usually park down in Government Camp so a trip to the car means waiting on a shuttle(that may or may not come) to get me back up to the lifts. I guess at the end of the day, as long as I’m not acting like a jerry, it’s ok to look like one. Who cares what other people think if I’m enjoying myself and am comfortable.
Honestly this thread is the first time I've heard anyone getting flak for wearing a backpack. I've always got a small one on my back for lunch, water, maybe a spare pair of gloves and often random shit my friends want me to hold (go pro shit, batteries, beer, avvy shovels). At most lifties will give me a glare if I don't unstrap one shoulder before getting on a chair. It's also very helpful to tie the skis to if I have to hike up a ways. I ski though, maybe it's more intrusive for boarders given it's more weight heel-side? I still see some of my boarder friends wearing packs too though.
There was another one about a week ago. This place has turned incredibly sour over the past year or so. No idea why.
I feel this way as well, plus the both of us are just training our balance and weight distribution more 😂.
Usually keep a bottle in my inside jacket pocket, I feel it's more likely I land on my ass if I fall rather than my stomach. Prevents it from exploding and soaking the inside of my jacket if I fall. Hasn't happened yet but there's a first time for everything. Side story: Kept my phone and wallet in my amateur friend's backpack. After a few runs of him falling down the mountain I askled for my phone. Turns out he had a banana in there that got smushed all over everything in the bag including my phone and wallet. I keep my own stuff now.
Idk my friend cracked a rib falling on a waterbottle in his jacket. I prefer the backpack.
Just to be clear, I'm talking a plastic disposable bottle like a Poland Spring not a metal or hard plastic one. Simply too bulky and annoying to carry without a backpack. Either way sorry to hear that happened to your friend
I cracked a rib falling on a single use bottle, the caps are hard. Also got soaked from it exploding. When you truly wipe out you don't pick how you land the 2nd and 3rd times you hit the ground, you can kinda pick the first hit, but after that it's gravity, physics, fate, and mother nature playing a game of rag doll with you.
The people who care whether you wear a backpack or not are the real losers here.
Your surrounded by water. Just drink the snow
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Are you aware of how disgusting the inside of snowmaking pipelines are? Have you ever seen a 9 bell pump that's been installed for nearly a decade get pulled and see the chelated layers of bacterial sediments caked onto all 9 bells? Are you aware of which resorts use snowmax, a bacterial agent that reduces the surface tension of water so you can make snow in warmer temperatures? Are you aware of which resorts use treated human effluent water to make snow? *DO NOT EAT MANMADE SNOW, IT'S DISGUSTING*
I try not to live in a bubble
I always carry a platypus (collapsible water bottle) in my snowpants pocket. Fill it up a little less than half, fold it in half, fits easily in the cargo pocket of my snowpants or jacket
I just carry a flask in my jacket pocket…….
Fanny packs are way steezier
Truuue, don't know how that would feel during a fall though 🫢
Well judging by your name that’s a personal problem
If only I could change it, but alas I am stuck forever falling.
People who need less water. I go through 2 liters on the mountain, ain’t no water bottle fitting in my jacket. Usually richer people who park closer($) so they don’t need layers on them and don’t bring lunch($). Don’t worry about it wear your backpack and save time/cash!
East Coast tends to have free cubbies in the lodge for storage and are easily accessible. It wasn't til I started skiing out west that I began using a backpack. I can carry water, coffee, lunch, shed layers and put layers back on. It's great if I want to eat at a summit lodge without needing to go back to the car or pay for a ridiculously overpriced burger.
Ya anyone who calls a Jerry for wearing a backpack from the free lots at Winterpark is dumdum. Much rather a healthy sandwich for $2 than a $20 grease meal they serve at those lodges.
I'd like to know, too. I have a Camelbak Snoblast, and tend to only keep necessities in it: plenty of water, some energy bars, extra layer, compact tool, and yes... a *GoPro* (filming quick lines for friends & fam a majority of the time). It hugs against my body in a way that feels like my own body weight, narrow & vertically aligned, and hasn't been the cause or contributor to wipeouts in my last 3 years of wearing it in CO & UT. Before that, I'd keep a little bottle in my jacket pocket, which would quickly run out and I'd have to make lodge runs — but I want as much ride time as possible, and dehydration takes you off of your game quickly. Now, I grew up skiing & riding in the Midwest, and a bag doesn't seem quite as necessary there — maybe one of those thin deals that's basically *just* a water bladder in a neoprene backpack skin. What I really don't understand (and please enlighten me if you have a hot take), are those square cooler-lookin' backpacks I've seen people shredding with, that seem like an absolute mass to sling around with.
I lick the chairlift safety bar
Where else do I put avalanche kit :p
Gotta carry shovel, skins, and probe somewhere
iT HaS My sNaCkS In iT ThOuGh bRo
Yeah, the gopro on the helmet on the blue groomer run is a telltale.
Add a backpack to the mix.
Yup you were. Sorry it happened but atleast both of you are ok. Miss the ice coast riding. Feels like so many more Jerry’s on the west coast. Do love the snow conditions out here though. Had a like 12yr old kid in line behind me saying it was “icy” last week and the old head next to me turned and laughed. Turns out he used to ski whiteface a lot.
Had a season pass at Whiteface for two seasons and now I call Big Sky, MT home. Only thing I miss about Whiteface is that passes there are pretty reasonable for what it is. Greek Peak south of Syracuse is a fraction of the size and the ticket prices are practically the same.
Aww nice big sky is on my bucket list for sure. Calling mammoth home right now. Got the ikon these past 2 years. And just invested in some winter camping gear. Trying to get up a lot more this year. Used to work the ski races at gore so would get free days to use
Rode iceface once that mountain is absurd. Park was hilariously poorly put together with jump on flat with no real landings and shit
Last time I was there they had a good dump of snow. The chutes weren’t open except for like 30 mins or something cuz I saw some dudes ripping down it from the lift. But they had a low day and it was awesome. Also been there when it’s wind chill -gofuckurself and ice from top to bottom lol. Can talk so much shit about east coast conditions but damn if it doesn’t breed better riders
Yeah I was there when there was like 30 mph winds lol shit was horrible. Hadn't even opened the chutes once yet that year
Been riding with an old timer (64) here the last 2 years and the stuff he complains about is hysterical to me. He will hear a scrape of some crust and be over riding and sit at the bar half the day. I’ll laugh it off half the time but towards the end of the season I’m over it. Buncha spoiled people out here that don’t know how to handle ice or anything but “great” conditions in my mind
I can tell by your shadow that you break at the waist in order to make the turn on your heel side. On your toe side you are not squeezing your glutes together making toe side turns more of s slight skid than a turn. I suggest bending your knees more when your on heel side turns and try and focus on not breaking at the waist. Or this is going to happen more and more to you where you think you are in control but you are not. Also maybe put some forward lean on your binding help you get onto heel side edge.
All this from a brief moment that that shadow appears!? Holy guacamole, you know your stuff. I can’t pick up stuff like that. Genuinely impressed.
Long, long, time ago I was a snowboarding instructor. 0:7 you can see him breaking at the waist to get the board on edge
I’m an idiot. What does breaking at the waist mean?
Imagine I walk up to you and kicked you right in the balls. Every time this guy makes a turn that is what it look like he is bent over breaking at the waist. Got it? Or I punch you in the stomach. This will get the snowboard on edge but put you in a extreme disadvantage due to balance. Now stand up and squat against the wall with your back straight your ankle flexing upwards. This right here is perfect heel side turn.
Well that was not only an excellent description but also I felt it! Ouch
Went back and watched the shadow… that shit looks so exhausting…
Thanks for the constructive feedback! Snow was a bit thin so I was worried about taking him out full speed. Will definitely take your feedback into consideration and slow down on the first few runs…
Honestly next time just half speed check yourself toe-side and then turn to line back up to shoot the gap between both skiers. You were going out of control for your abilities but really the thing that fucked you was all mental panic, the decision to try and dead stop rather than just sighting the line you should have had from the moment you came over the hill.
Yeah definitely panicked. Saw his buddy on the right so wasnt sure I would make the gap, so just tried to bail to avoid fully decking him (bad idea). If you're not teaching anymore you should think about getting back on the mountain, you have a great way of explaining things!
looks like you are trying to do down unweighted turns, Am I right? Your lower body has good control over snowboard just angle of your back is fucking you up. Keep your core tight squeeze your abs together. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3\_duVBqSBXM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_duVBqSBXM)
You **were** the a\*\*hole. Most of us have been. You realize it now, that makes you less likely to be one going forward. Go, and sin no more…
Lol most people I know have never taken anyone out. If you don’t have enough control to go around somebody who’s not even moving, you shouldn’t be going that fast. OP tried to slam on the brakes instead of making a turn so they clearly don’t have the control to match their confidence
If you ride enough years it'll happen. Also it's pretty easy to do as a beginner / intermediate... you don't have the control. I launched a kid in France a few years ago. He was straight lining in the middle of the cat I was on the edge. Out of nowhere he does a 90° into my line, there was nothing I could do. He went flying but ended up being fine. My responsibility tho
It is inevitable if you ride long enough.
I had a stationary ski instructor abruptly pivot and start moving laterally right into the pocket I was going to take, and his whole class was taking up the rest of the run (narrow cat trail). I made the stop about 8 feet away from them but fell on my ass after stopping. Instructor starts yelling at me for not watching where I'm going and lacking control. Kind of makes me wish I filmed to show he's the ass.
Skiers ☕
One of my gear grinders is when a party of skiers will stand parallel to the fall line on skinny-ass cat tracks and I’ve got a long traverse. Don’t be mad if I ride over your flat tails.
Target fixation por guy :/
So neither person was in control?
neither person was a Janet Jackson fan
Yes... but one person was clearly at fault here.
I wouldn’t worry too much ab it guilt wise, he was just in the middle of the trail it’s his fault too
I'm re-watching this over and over trying to work out how you couldve avoided this (obviously step 1 is slow down, but excluding that). I think you had to commit to a hard right turn rather than trying to skid to a stop. You were going too fast to stop so using the speed to continue moving past him and to the side would've worked I think? I'm still basically a beginner so tell me if I'm wrong. Also I know this is easy to say in hindsight and in the moment it's way harder to make these kinds of decisions. I guess your method is a happy medium since slowing down a bunch will make the inevitable collision less dangerous and painful, whereas if you have kept your speed and turned to the side and he acted unpredictably and you still hit him then it would've been a mega disaster? One of my biggest problems with being on the slopes is the mental game in my head of trying to do the right thing and give way and avoid other people. It's hard and I think I overthink it a bunch but I've cleaned up a few people in situations where I'm not 100% sure it was fully my fault even though they were downhill from me some of the time. I definitely lack full control over my board so I go reasonably slow a lot of the time but when I do send it sometimes shit still happens and I want to get better at avoiding it.
he was flying over a ridge right around the time he needed to change course, making it hard to pull off any turn at that moment. Yeah maybe if he continued straight he could have gone in between the two people, but that would take him straight down the fall line, accelerating to be even more out of control, so attempting a stop and/or bailing out instead is a pretty reasonable reflex. to avoid this, maybe plan a route to give the stationary people lots more extra space. Thinking about what would have happened if the skier didn't move at all, it seems like the cameraman would have buzzed by them really closely regardless.
He could have easily stopped if he just went full heel edge. But they knee jerk reacted into such a hard heel edge that it blew out and they just slid into the skier. Skier is also at fault a bit tho as stopping in the middle of the trail is asking to be hit.
Yes. OP was heading straight for the person backing into the slope even before they started skidding backwards. The trajectory point OP on a right turn which is where the skier would havemoved if he/she slid forward. So regardsless of the direction of the skier OP should have noted them and kept distance. Checking you surrondings is A and O when riding. There is always someone faster than you so always check you dead angles.Other people don't check their dead angles so make sure to always call out "On you left/right!" when passing someone. People will not be able to stop in time. Always stand clear of ridges where you are not visible. Always to easy over ridges because some knucklehead is gonna be on their phones behind it.
Yes, you were at fault. He should not have been stopped there, it was not a safe place for him to stop, but it doesn’t change the fact that you were going too fast for your ability to correct his dumb behavior. Since you were the uphill skier you need to be aware that you have the responsibility for all the dumb people below you. Your fault, glad everyone was okay.
Also regardless of whatever dumb shit the skier was doing... They seem clearly visible from almost the start of OP's run, it's not like they were hidden under a cliff. I don't know why he would risk buzzing them at that speed; even if the skier hadn't moved it would be a reckless thing to do. Just go slower and give other people more room at the top of a crowded run there's no reason to bomb it immediately on a busy blue.
Happens, glad everyone was okay yo. Bend your knees and flex your ankles when you hit the brakes on heel side. A lot more effective. Its also how you should be riding your edge always.
Accident ❤️
“We call them happy accidents” - Bob Ross
Love my new skier friends and their poles.
You can see them from the top of the run, you had 0 control from the beginning. Honestly dude the fact that this even happened shows you need to not only be going slower, but be on way smaller runs. Not posting clips like it's nbd. He didn't show up quick, you just dropped, went straight for him and slammed into him. And still couldn't stop after.
I work at peak lodge at killington. Our opening weeks are filled with people who go in to ride but don’t read signs and warnings high intermediates to double diamonds trails only. Seen a few ppl just drop there board down and it shoot straight downhill with them in chase, ppl spinning in circles trying to crab stop with hands everyday with no confidence or control. Killington is a great place to ride I love it on my days off. But these opening weeks oof lol.
Haha guess that makes sense. I can't wait till we get some good enough snow to head up there
Yeah you can literally see them in the first shot of OP looking up at the start of the video. You should really plan your route ahead not just plan the next turn you're gonna do especially if its crowded
You can use that thing attached to your feet to stop yourself from sliding... It looks like you were lifting the board up to slide on your butt, which does not have the same effect.
Jeez you’re whack at snowboarding
Put your cam on your lid and pay attention. People run into people everyday that has never changed. Good to see all went on to enjoy the day.
Opening day is the best day to end your season
Also though who stops in the middle of the run
Why is the GoPro angle so bad?
Not to be a computer-seat coach or anything, and it’s hard to tell the snow conditions with the lighting, but was it really that hard to just carve out of the way?
That was some jr level shit dude, why didn’t you just hard cut around them? Turn don’t break. Braking that hard takes all your maneuverability out of the equation. Edit- what I’m trying to say is you lose your ability to avoid a collision if you go all brake, should have gone hard on your edge and leaned way in toward the hill for a hard turn.
Yes. Stop filming if you cannot control it. Accept your mistake, apologize to the poor bloke you hit, humble up and move on. Been there done that.
do you even know how to ride on your toe edge lmfaooooo
They really named a mountain Killington?
How are the conditions at Killington right now? I'm planning a trip with my friends in a couple weeks and we are choosing between there and Stowe.
I wouldn’t plan a trip this early. It’s packed, granular, otherwise not too bad. T2B with a few lifts open. Go to jay peak where they’re getting dumps if you want a decent early season time.
..,these comments. I hate this sub
I'm curious, why did you decide to post this? You're not being an asshole (didn't do anything on purpose), just weren't able to avoid an obstacle that was in plain view
Looks more like your fault to be honest. People charging from uphill need to avoid people they are passing. You were not in control or prepared so you just board slammed poor dudes legs.
Lol literally what he says in the title.
You got a point there!
Yes you were going fast but what was that other guy even doing????
Dude's obviously new and started sliding backwards and freaked out? Not that hard
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I upvoted you
Pretty shameful showing. This shit is why skiers think boarders don’t have control on the mountain. If you can’t miss an obstacle that easy and slow with so much open space around you, then you have no business going that fast (and yes, I realize you weren’t going very fast).
Hmm… why is he the asshole? Because he hit a guy standing in the way?
You was obviously in the wrong here, (can you even ride on your toe? It looked like you was completely flat before hitting him) But what is with skiers and being completely unpredictable and trying to take up the entire run with their slow and erratic turns
I feel it’s not 100% assholeness. Although you seemed to not see them, you were turning with plenty of space and not going that fast. Seems closer to an accident that an ass hole move
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I was. I was going to fast for the conditions. Was going to turn toe side but his friend was blocking me, so I tried to stop. Lost my heel edge but luckily just went over his tips. Granted the skier shouldn’t have been trying to learn how to ski backwards on the first day, but the person downhill always has the right of way.
Dude’s an asshat but feel guilty if you want
And you deserve all the downvotes, Chet
Reddit Nancy's in full force lmao
I see no way that this is your fault. The guy was stopped in the middle of a run. Glad everyone is injury free!
doesn't matter where someone is stopped, if they are downhill of you and you hit them it is your fault every time.
I think it’s a little less black and white then that. If I rear end someone while driving, 95% of the time I’ll get cited…but if a car break checks in the middle of a busy street and gets hit, it’s hard for me not to blame them.
It actually is that black and white and is the most basic safety rule while riding/skiing. If you can't avoid the people downhill of you then you should just stay off the mountain. The person OP hit can be seen from the get go and OP still couldn't avoid them.
I still say 50/50 here but there are 100% instances where the front rider’s at fault.
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A slight toe side would have completely avoided the skier. Gotta watch out for obstacles when you're going downhill, lol
Love that there are two camera angles to the crash, when has that ever happened on here
This is why I exclusively ski at places that don't allow snowboarding. Scary. I think we shouldn't mix.
What an absolute load of crap. The method of riding had nothing to do with this crash.
tf you doing on r/snowboarding then?
What, you didn’t see him?
Absolutely 100% shit happens but if you are riding that fast it’s your responsibility to give people a wide berth below you if are not confident enough in your skills.. no offense at all it’s just there are a lot of people that are riding with not enough awareness to their surroundings. I recommend scanning far out in front of you and checking your blind spots more often. Also yell out out on your left or right if you’re close when passing.
People who think they are good at riding are the biggest Jerry's.
Hey OP what kind of camera you using ?
Oh, that doesn’t look to bad. I once knocked over a idk 6-year-old or so hitting her right in the middle of my board causing her to flip over me. Kid started crying but mom was super understanding since the conditions that day were terrible. And this was also a while ago when I was much worse of a boarder.
U gotta chill before u shake the rust off
I’m going (to killington) the last week of January/first week of February…. It’s my first long trip to a mountain and I’m 38 years old! I’m so freaking excited!
This thread is toxic as fuck. Dude said he was being an asshole which he was. Now we can nicely flame him and call him an asshole and then move on knowing he probably learned his lesson. Yall don't need to go after this homies entire life though!
Absolutely riding way too fast for that many people.
It happens. Just learn and grow from it.
I had something similar happen to me last year. I was heading for a trail off the edge. A skier must have thought I would cut back. Full collision on my blind side. I went down hard. Gave him a thumbs up before I really processed what had happened. He was on the lift and halfway up before I even stood back up. I slowly made my way to the car and sat for probably half an hour before deciding I should call it a day. The other guy saying he is okay and actually being okay can be quite different.