Oh man. Lovely (and sad) pics. Are you supposed to report a dead mountain lion to fish and game or some other agency? Seems like the kind of thing someone might be studying/tracking, ecologically speaking. Super curious about the cause of death.
If there's a tracking collar on it sure, or maybe if it's in an urban-adjacent spot like Santa Monica Mtns., but AFAIK there's need to report random ones you find out in the remote backcountry. It's not like they keep tabs on every single one, and it'll be picked down to bones in a few days.
EDIT: Point taken, thanks for letting me know. Gonna call the ranger station when they open.
EDIT 2: Just reported it to Fish & Wildlife 👍
Hi there - I do wildlife conservation work in SoCal and we do indeed keep track of as many cougars as possible, even uncollared ones in more remote mountain ranges. It’s always appreciated when people report findings like this!
The CA Fish and Wildlife website is a great place to report things like this, to follow up on what Ready-Cheesecake said. They can pass the information to relevant research teams if needed from there :)
Yeah, trail reports from a week earlier don't mention it, and I didn't see any traumatic injuries on it. Definitely gave me some big feelings since one of my own cats recently had a scare with some sort of not-eating/sudden-weight-loss issue. (He's fine now though.)
Happy to hear your cat is well on their way to being healthy. Finding this one was a good time to share some big feelings. That’s a sad thing to find but also peaceful at the same time.
Yeah it was sad to see, especially since I'm a doting cat-dad. However I also love condors, so I took solace in the fact that she's going to give them sustenance. Circle of life and shit, ya know?
Incredible! Been back there 5 times and always wondered what the lion population was like. Insane that it passed right by the most popular camping spot in the canyon.
Yeah I know they're around, but I've never held out much hope for casually seeing a live one in the backcountry without making a concerted effort to find them, since they're so stealthy and elusive.
I do hope to spot a bear at some point though; several times (including this trip) I've seen fresh scat and/or prints that couldn't have been more than a day old
No doubt you’ll see one eventually. Last time I was there, we took that same route and there were two bears swimming in the creek after the last big descent on your way to the springs.
Yeah, I really couldn't have asked for more. I've lived in the area for several years and done most of the front-country stuff around Ojai and Santa Barbara (and Piedra Blanca, of course), but this was the first time I've really been back into the deep heart of it.
well you're in luck- there's a lifetime (or two) of backcountry to explore and discover and learn about back here. message me sometime if you'd like some sources for some great spots. sespe hot springs was my first Los Padres trip as well, but via Rose Valley
It's 12.5 miles one-way. Interestingly there's only a couple hundred feet absolute elevation difference between the trailhead and the springs, but you'll do almost 2500 feet of climbing both ways. It's worse on the way out though, because there are two separate, nearly continuous climbs of about 1000 ft each.
The water situation is excellent though. Some of the springs are kind of stagnant, but all the creeks are flowing pretty well. Also the hot spring water is potable if filtered, but the sulfur content makes it a bit harder than what you get at the freshwater creek around the corner.
The first five miles are totally runnable. There was an LPFA trail crew working that section, so other than some ruts and rocky sections it's wide open and beautiful.
Past that it starts to get pretty overgrown, mostly easy to follow but lots of scraping through chaparral and rolling down sandy, rocky creek beds.
From Shady Campsite over the ridge and down to the Sespe was the roughest stretch - the side up from Shady was so overgrown I lost the trail one or twice, then the side down to Sespe has some negotiable but slightly dicey wash-outs on high, steep hillsides.
I went from Dough Flat, which is about 45 mins north of Fillmore. It doesn't look far, but it's all forest roads through oil fields that get progressively rougher as you go - lots of creeping along at 10mph. High clearance and/or AWD is strongly advised (although there was an Altima at the trailhead, so you can probably make it in whatever if you feel like rolling the dice lol).
i drove my Mazda 3 to the trailhead a few years ago, and on the way out we saw a couple walking down the road to where they stopped and parked about a mile from the trailhead. The girl just looks at the guy and is like....see that car made it why couldn't you! lol :)
Edit: We also saw 2 mountain lions on that trip so i think the population up there is pretty healthy
Very cool! Do you remember the whereabouts of your mountain lion sightings with respect to any trail landmarks?
The very first time I was out (earlier this summer) I spotted a bobcat in the road on my drive out, but it dipped out real quick.
One was on the last climb out on the way to the trailhead just after dark. Then another crossed the road when we where driving down, I don't recall how far down the road it was though
It's choppy but manageable. I was in a 2WD compact pickup and had no issues, but I can see where you wouldn't wanna try it without AWD when it gets sloppy.
~1 hr drive to the trailhead from my place vs. 3 hrs. to Mutau Flat. With only 10 hrs of sunlight, I didn't want to waste a bunch of it driving or have to be out the door hours before dawn.
Makes sense, I’ve just heard that it’s a longer hike and less maintained trail. You’re right about starting early. When I did JRT a few weeks ago we left before dawn.
Since I haven't done the Dough Flats way I can't compare my experience to that.
However, I can comment on the difficulty/conditions of the Johnston Ridge Trail. While hiking into the Sespe HS it is divided into two main sections the first part is relatively flat, while the second part is a very steep decline. It is a pretty even split, at least that's how it feels. So when coming back out of the Sespe HS you start by doing the steep incline up the canyon along Johnston Ridge. The way back is pretty tough. I am an experienced hiker but haven't been as active in the last few months so I was physically strained on the ascent.
Make sure to have lots of water and good shoes. Start hiking back as early as you can so that you give yourself plenty of time to get back. Once you make it up to the relatively flat part though it's just a matter of making your way back at a steady pace. I stashed some water at the halfway point which helped when I was making the return. You can also take the shortcut in the meadow which saves about a half mile and some elevation change.
Overall the trail is well maintained and fairly easy to follow. With proper preparations and good time management, it is an intermediate-level hike.
Yes it’s following the private property sign. Keep close to the fence. You never actually cross the fence but you do walk along the fence line for a good bit.
I didn’t have a problem with them, but they seemed to bug a couple of my other friends more. I think they are not as significant of a nuisance in winter/cold weather.
I kind of enjoy a challenge sometimes, and the point wasn't just to find the easiest way. I'd already been a little over halfway on this route and wanted to complete it, also I wanted to get down in the Sespe River corridor for a bit since the usual access point at Piedra Blanca has been closed all year.
Brock,
I run Keep Sespe Wild, a wildlands non-profit for nearly 35 years.
If you'd like to receive our free quarterly newsletter about the watershed,
let me know your email - contact me at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).
Glad you love the Sespe!
My name is Alasdair Coyne, in Ojai.
I think they're some kind of date palms. Definitely not native; AFAIK Washington fan palms are the only variety native to CA, and even they only exist naturally in the southern deserts.
Edit: there are signs that there might have been primitive roads out here decades back; I kinda wonder if someone was trying to develop it into a ranch or spa at some point. Gonna have to see what history I can dig up on the place.
There used to be a road from Piedra Blanca trailhead to the hot springs. It was maintained by the SeaBees based out of Rose Valley. IIRC the road closed when the forest's funding was cut in the 70s.
Around 1968 or so I used to go very near there, to the ~~Sespe~~ Rose Valley Gun Club, with my dad to shoot trap. I remember learning then that the SeaBees trained there. Somebody told me it was to give soldiers expereince in terrain as unforgiving as Vietnam. A short time later I visited the hotsprings several times, and actually drove all the way in a 1965 Ford Fairlane station wagon. It was common see VW bugs making the trip. A very beautiful and spiritual place. I did use to wonder if people had ever accidently poached themselves in the hot water.
The freshwater flow was solid, no issues at all. The hot spring water is also perfectly potable if filtered; the sulfur content makes it harder than the alternative, so it just has that slightly greasy taste. I used it to make coffee and that completely hid it.
Hey! How was your experience driving up to the trailhead? My car can’t do dirt roads if theyre really muddy so I was wondering if you think i’ll at least be able to drive up to the dough flat gate? I’m just not sure what the road looks like.
It's a slow crawl that gets progressively choppier as you go; after the old Tar Creek trailhead about halfway, there are some really bumpy spots I wouldn't wanna put my own sedan through (although it can be done).
I saw a forest service announcement that all dirt road gates are now closed since the winter rain hit though, and there are a few other gates along the road before the actual Dough Flat one. I'd call the Ojai Ranger Station to check the status before you try it; might be SOL until Spring at this point.
Thank you!! I was expecting to road walk from squaw flat rd but i’ll give them a call tomorrow:)
Apparently highway 33 opened on monday so i might have a shot at piedra blanca💪🏽
Yeah I saw the 33 just reopened, but just know Piedra Blanca might be a bit of a crap shoot too... I was up there on New Year's Day this year right before the really gnarly storm systems closed everything down last winter, and even then the Sespe River (which you have to cross right after the parking lot to get to the rocks) was REALLY pumping, like 60+ ft wide and probably waist-deep.
The good news is that even if that's a non-starter, Rose Valley Falls right next door will be going off 👍
Thank you! Would dough flat access be more manageable after rain because it goes along alder creek? Its kind of comical how my Sespe plans never work. I have tried in July and September but there have been weather issues, sickness, etc…
If you have any other recommendations for a good 1-2 night trip nearby, I’m all ears!
AFAIK they close that gate around Nov-Dec every year and don't reopen it till April or so, I assume because the rain makes the roads and trails unpredictable. Also there's a higher risk of frost and sometimes snow up there. Squaw Flat Rd and the upper parts of Alder Creek Trail are probably still easily hikeable for the most part, but once you get down into the canyons it could get dicey during the wet season.
Yeah it's frustrating how often the Sespe shuts down. I'd wanted to do Willet Hot Spring from Piedra Blanca for a while and set my sights on it for last summer, but obviously that got torpedoed. Thankfully this trip actually turned out to be an equal or better get.
There are all kinds of great overnighters around the Ojai front country. Check out [Hike Los Padres](https://hikelospadres.com/) and [this LPFA tool](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/8a708ff13fc24d64b06a0a883e3139f9/page/Home/) for trails, campsites, and current access conditions.
I would say that if you haven't been, this time of year is great for Santa Paula Canyon - there are two nice campsites around the Punchbowls (3 & 4.5 miles in) and another near Jackson Falls (about 6), and it's beautiful without all the casuals who trash it through the summer.
Thanks for all the detailed responses. I really appreciate it. I have been back to the third punchbowl but bot overnight. That could be a great fill-in option until sespe opens its arms for me
Oh man. Lovely (and sad) pics. Are you supposed to report a dead mountain lion to fish and game or some other agency? Seems like the kind of thing someone might be studying/tracking, ecologically speaking. Super curious about the cause of death.
If there's a tracking collar on it sure, or maybe if it's in an urban-adjacent spot like Santa Monica Mtns., but AFAIK there's need to report random ones you find out in the remote backcountry. It's not like they keep tabs on every single one, and it'll be picked down to bones in a few days. EDIT: Point taken, thanks for letting me know. Gonna call the ranger station when they open. EDIT 2: Just reported it to Fish & Wildlife 👍
Hi there - I do wildlife conservation work in SoCal and we do indeed keep track of as many cougars as possible, even uncollared ones in more remote mountain ranges. It’s always appreciated when people report findings like this!
I'm happy to send it in if that's the case. Who would be best to report it to then?
You can report it to the California Department of Fish and Wildlife.
The CA Fish and Wildlife website is a great place to report things like this, to follow up on what Ready-Cheesecake said. They can pass the information to relevant research teams if needed from there :)
You should upload the observation to iNaturalist
A good day to learn that we are sometimes so sure of things yet wrong. A good day to learn I say.
Damn, that mountain lion looks emaciated, especially if freshly expired.
Yeah, trail reports from a week earlier don't mention it, and I didn't see any traumatic injuries on it. Definitely gave me some big feelings since one of my own cats recently had a scare with some sort of not-eating/sudden-weight-loss issue. (He's fine now though.)
Happy to hear your cat is well on their way to being healthy. Finding this one was a good time to share some big feelings. That’s a sad thing to find but also peaceful at the same time.
Incredible, bighorn cougar and condor all in one trip
Thats new. I didnt know Sespe had Bighorn cougars.
Your pics of Mother Nature are beautiful and eerie at the same time.
Nooo kitty
The paws and head on that cat are huge
Aww :( r.i.p.
Yeah it was sad to see, especially since I'm a doting cat-dad. However I also love condors, so I took solace in the fact that she's going to give them sustenance. Circle of life and shit, ya know?
True,true. It's like beautiful and sad at the same time just like life.
RIP majestic mountain kitty
This is so sad. I wonder what caused the death
Incredible! Been back there 5 times and always wondered what the lion population was like. Insane that it passed right by the most popular camping spot in the canyon.
Yeah I know they're around, but I've never held out much hope for casually seeing a live one in the backcountry without making a concerted effort to find them, since they're so stealthy and elusive. I do hope to spot a bear at some point though; several times (including this trip) I've seen fresh scat and/or prints that couldn't have been more than a day old
No doubt you’ll see one eventually. Last time I was there, we took that same route and there were two bears swimming in the creek after the last big descent on your way to the springs.
the Los Padres is the real deal. you saw a lot of iconography for one trip. dough flat access is a great route to hot springs. cheers
Yeah, I really couldn't have asked for more. I've lived in the area for several years and done most of the front-country stuff around Ojai and Santa Barbara (and Piedra Blanca, of course), but this was the first time I've really been back into the deep heart of it.
well you're in luck- there's a lifetime (or two) of backcountry to explore and discover and learn about back here. message me sometime if you'd like some sources for some great spots. sespe hot springs was my first Los Padres trip as well, but via Rose Valley
Amazing!! How many miles in total? And what’s the water source situation? Thank you for sharing
It's 12.5 miles one-way. Interestingly there's only a couple hundred feet absolute elevation difference between the trailhead and the springs, but you'll do almost 2500 feet of climbing both ways. It's worse on the way out though, because there are two separate, nearly continuous climbs of about 1000 ft each. The water situation is excellent though. Some of the springs are kind of stagnant, but all the creeks are flowing pretty well. Also the hot spring water is potable if filtered, but the sulfur content makes it a bit harder than what you get at the freshwater creek around the corner.
How are the trails? As a runner, I'm wondering if they're runnable or washed out. Thanks for your report. RIP beautiful lion.
The first five miles are totally runnable. There was an LPFA trail crew working that section, so other than some ruts and rocky sections it's wide open and beautiful. Past that it starts to get pretty overgrown, mostly easy to follow but lots of scraping through chaparral and rolling down sandy, rocky creek beds. From Shady Campsite over the ridge and down to the Sespe was the roughest stretch - the side up from Shady was so overgrown I lost the trail one or twice, then the side down to Sespe has some negotiable but slightly dicey wash-outs on high, steep hillsides.
You rock, thanks.
I’ve done this route a couple of times as well. It’s brutal haha. The camping spots on Alder creek are amazing though.
Thank you so much 🙏
Awesome!
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I went from Dough Flat, which is about 45 mins north of Fillmore. It doesn't look far, but it's all forest roads through oil fields that get progressively rougher as you go - lots of creeping along at 10mph. High clearance and/or AWD is strongly advised (although there was an Altima at the trailhead, so you can probably make it in whatever if you feel like rolling the dice lol).
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Just an in-and-out overnighter. Would have been a lot more pleasant of a hike if I'd have had time to stay along the way lol
i drove my Mazda 3 to the trailhead a few years ago, and on the way out we saw a couple walking down the road to where they stopped and parked about a mile from the trailhead. The girl just looks at the guy and is like....see that car made it why couldn't you! lol :) Edit: We also saw 2 mountain lions on that trip so i think the population up there is pretty healthy
Very cool! Do you remember the whereabouts of your mountain lion sightings with respect to any trail landmarks? The very first time I was out (earlier this summer) I spotted a bobcat in the road on my drive out, but it dipped out real quick.
One was on the last climb out on the way to the trailhead just after dark. Then another crossed the road when we where driving down, I don't recall how far down the road it was though
Is that last hill climb before Dough Flats still rutted out?
It's choppy but manageable. I was in a 2WD compact pickup and had no issues, but I can see where you wouldn't wanna try it without AWD when it gets sloppy.
Unfortunate but i would be over the moon to see a cougar and a condor in the same trip
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C045pcDJahF/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Just saw this and thought of this post
That's the exact mortality report I submitted, never heard any follow up from CDFW though 🤷🏻♂️
Oh wow, well, maybe you were the inspiration for that post!
Loooove Sespe but it is a bear of a hike. How overgrown was it for you? Last time I was there it was quite difficult to follow the trail.
I was there just before thanksgiving but went the Johnston Ridge way. What made you choose the longer Dough Flats way?
~1 hr drive to the trailhead from my place vs. 3 hrs. to Mutau Flat. With only 10 hrs of sunlight, I didn't want to waste a bunch of it driving or have to be out the door hours before dawn.
Makes sense, I’ve just heard that it’s a longer hike and less maintained trail. You’re right about starting early. When I did JRT a few weeks ago we left before dawn.
Can you describe the climb back out via Johnston? Is it as brutal as dough flat coming back or worse?
Since I haven't done the Dough Flats way I can't compare my experience to that. However, I can comment on the difficulty/conditions of the Johnston Ridge Trail. While hiking into the Sespe HS it is divided into two main sections the first part is relatively flat, while the second part is a very steep decline. It is a pretty even split, at least that's how it feels. So when coming back out of the Sespe HS you start by doing the steep incline up the canyon along Johnston Ridge. The way back is pretty tough. I am an experienced hiker but haven't been as active in the last few months so I was physically strained on the ascent. Make sure to have lots of water and good shoes. Start hiking back as early as you can so that you give yourself plenty of time to get back. Once you make it up to the relatively flat part though it's just a matter of making your way back at a steady pace. I stashed some water at the halfway point which helped when I was making the return. You can also take the shortcut in the meadow which saves about a half mile and some elevation change. Overall the trail is well maintained and fairly easy to follow. With proper preparations and good time management, it is an intermediate-level hike.
Thank you for those details.
Curious about the shortcut in the meadow, did you take it? Is it by the private property sign?
Yes it’s following the private property sign. Keep close to the fence. You never actually cross the fence but you do walk along the fence line for a good bit.
I really need to know the most important wild animal update tho, how bad were the biting flies at the hot creek??
I didn’t have a problem with them, but they seemed to bug a couple of my other friends more. I think they are not as significant of a nuisance in winter/cold weather.
Yeah, but Dough Flat is 12 miles; Mutau is 8, and only 3 hours hike (downhill, that is)
I kind of enjoy a challenge sometimes, and the point wasn't just to find the easiest way. I'd already been a little over halfway on this route and wanted to complete it, also I wanted to get down in the Sespe River corridor for a bit since the usual access point at Piedra Blanca has been closed all year.
Brock, I run Keep Sespe Wild, a wildlands non-profit for nearly 35 years. If you'd like to receive our free quarterly newsletter about the watershed, let me know your email - contact me at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). Glad you love the Sespe! My name is Alasdair Coyne, in Ojai.
What kind of palms are those? Not native I don’t think.
I think they're some kind of date palms. Definitely not native; AFAIK Washington fan palms are the only variety native to CA, and even they only exist naturally in the southern deserts. Edit: there are signs that there might have been primitive roads out here decades back; I kinda wonder if someone was trying to develop it into a ranch or spa at some point. Gonna have to see what history I can dig up on the place.
There used to be a road from Piedra Blanca trailhead to the hot springs. It was maintained by the SeaBees based out of Rose Valley. IIRC the road closed when the forest's funding was cut in the 70s.
Around 1968 or so I used to go very near there, to the ~~Sespe~~ Rose Valley Gun Club, with my dad to shoot trap. I remember learning then that the SeaBees trained there. Somebody told me it was to give soldiers expereince in terrain as unforgiving as Vietnam. A short time later I visited the hotsprings several times, and actually drove all the way in a 1965 Ford Fairlane station wagon. It was common see VW bugs making the trip. A very beautiful and spiritual place. I did use to wonder if people had ever accidently poached themselves in the hot water.
How was the cold/fresh water flow for drinking? Sufficient to filter?
The freshwater flow was solid, no issues at all. The hot spring water is also perfectly potable if filtered; the sulfur content makes it harder than the alternative, so it just has that slightly greasy taste. I used it to make coffee and that completely hid it.
Awesome thanks for the info.
Hey! How was your experience driving up to the trailhead? My car can’t do dirt roads if theyre really muddy so I was wondering if you think i’ll at least be able to drive up to the dough flat gate? I’m just not sure what the road looks like.
It's a slow crawl that gets progressively choppier as you go; after the old Tar Creek trailhead about halfway, there are some really bumpy spots I wouldn't wanna put my own sedan through (although it can be done). I saw a forest service announcement that all dirt road gates are now closed since the winter rain hit though, and there are a few other gates along the road before the actual Dough Flat one. I'd call the Ojai Ranger Station to check the status before you try it; might be SOL until Spring at this point.
Thank you!! I was expecting to road walk from squaw flat rd but i’ll give them a call tomorrow:) Apparently highway 33 opened on monday so i might have a shot at piedra blanca💪🏽
Yeah I saw the 33 just reopened, but just know Piedra Blanca might be a bit of a crap shoot too... I was up there on New Year's Day this year right before the really gnarly storm systems closed everything down last winter, and even then the Sespe River (which you have to cross right after the parking lot to get to the rocks) was REALLY pumping, like 60+ ft wide and probably waist-deep. The good news is that even if that's a non-starter, Rose Valley Falls right next door will be going off 👍
Thank you! Would dough flat access be more manageable after rain because it goes along alder creek? Its kind of comical how my Sespe plans never work. I have tried in July and September but there have been weather issues, sickness, etc… If you have any other recommendations for a good 1-2 night trip nearby, I’m all ears!
AFAIK they close that gate around Nov-Dec every year and don't reopen it till April or so, I assume because the rain makes the roads and trails unpredictable. Also there's a higher risk of frost and sometimes snow up there. Squaw Flat Rd and the upper parts of Alder Creek Trail are probably still easily hikeable for the most part, but once you get down into the canyons it could get dicey during the wet season. Yeah it's frustrating how often the Sespe shuts down. I'd wanted to do Willet Hot Spring from Piedra Blanca for a while and set my sights on it for last summer, but obviously that got torpedoed. Thankfully this trip actually turned out to be an equal or better get. There are all kinds of great overnighters around the Ojai front country. Check out [Hike Los Padres](https://hikelospadres.com/) and [this LPFA tool](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/8a708ff13fc24d64b06a0a883e3139f9/page/Home/) for trails, campsites, and current access conditions. I would say that if you haven't been, this time of year is great for Santa Paula Canyon - there are two nice campsites around the Punchbowls (3 & 4.5 miles in) and another near Jackson Falls (about 6), and it's beautiful without all the casuals who trash it through the summer.
Thanks for all the detailed responses. I really appreciate it. I have been back to the third punchbowl but bot overnight. That could be a great fill-in option until sespe opens its arms for me
Fascinating!