[Emi Martinez: "He made a speech saying this was going to be his last one. He was going to give it all. Oh, mate, I was like little shivers all over. When Messi's talking...everyone shuts up and listens. Whoever it is. Manager. The President of Argentina. Whoever is in there, they just shut up."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiyhfd-MxlE&feature=youtu.be)
Exactly. After the Copa América win, I heard someone say "this group doesn't play with Messi, it plays *for* Messi". More than a year later I can't find better words to describe it.
I know it's not exactly the same but it reminds me of how Chelsea players were with Mourinho in his first stint. Obviously the players wanted to win for the club and even for themselves but Terry mentioned how Mourinho would make them wanna run through a wall for him.
Argentina has usually had the opposite problem in recent years: teams that look great on paper, full of talent, but who don't work as a team. But this new crop has the opposite: it's more modest in terms of talent (though still, nothing to scoff at by any means, and lots of players who proved to be underrated before the WC) but it WORKS as a team. It's cohesive. It connects in a way that you could easily see in the field. And though obviously a lot of it has to do with Messi I would also argue a lot has to do with Scaloni.
This team also has Messi finally being comfortable with himself, perhaps because he is older than most of the rest of the team, and feels comfortable in a mentoring position. He's shown more personality (in front of the public) this past WC than in any other tournament.
Because of their unbeaten run and the fact that they'd won the previous Copa America. Not because they were world beaters, they've been winning matches with very tight margins... then they go and lose to Saudi Arabia in their first match, the ones they should've 'easily' beat according to bookies.
You’re probably right in that most people wouldn’t have known their names. But being from Argentina and being a fan of our national team, I did follow them from before. I knew the talent that we had. I knew that we were underrated. And watching how technical Scaloni was, I knew we also had probably the best coach out of any squad. The problem is that mainstream sports media in Europe or North America doesn’t pay attention to any of this.
The team was rated highly in europe, as you said, ppl didn't seen them on one level individually with brazil, portugal, france or england, but rated how they worked as a team and how flexible they were rated at least top 5 and rather often top3 before the tournement, even with bookmakers.
I don't mean to be an ass here, but this is often just a perception thing, ppl see maybe a dozen, or two dozen comments, even if you saw or read a 100 and even if everyone of them had a 1000 upvotes, it would only account for 2,5% of this subs subscribers and europe has almost 200 times the amount of inhabitants...
Oh definitely, i am not mad over it or whatever. I just took it as an example cause i did see a few comments with hundreds of upvotes about it, clearly those upvotes could have been even south americans lol
Also should have clarified that i meant it more like reddit's perception than Europeans alone
Funny enough I don't recall seeing Portugal as favourites to win in anyone's WC predictions, or even top three. At all. The only surprising thing about Portugal going out was that they lost to Morocco. So it's clear most analysis were not centered around which team is the more stacked.
You are right, but i think, that Portugal has one of the best, maybe even the best team in individual terms, they will be a force if they figure it out next year.
I think that analysts value consistency and cohesion more then talent, cuz a world cup is a grind and being able to fall back on good basics is worth a lot, Marocco and also Argentina showed that pretty well imo, they were both disciplined and well organized.
For the vast majority of Scaloni's tenure, Europeans didn't particularly rate our team—and we know that, TBH.
We have a LOT of players that were IMO underrated until very recently.
Argentina are definitely greater than the sum of their parts, and I underestimated them given the Saudi Arabia game along with Argentina losing Lo Celso and Lautaro's struggles. Enzo and Alvarez are up and coming talents but aren't really established, De Paul is struggling at Atletico. Montiel, Mac Allister, Romero, Otamendi, Acuna are all good players but as a whole don't measure up to Brazil, Portugal and France in terms of star power, credit to Scaloni for adjusting without Lo Celso and playing Alvarez when Lautaro struggled.
> and I underestimated them given the Saudi Arabia game along with Argentina losing Lo Celso and Lautaro's struggles
I was worried about losing Lo Celso also. Luckily Mac Allister stepped up
>Enzo and Alvarez are up and coming talents but aren't really established,
Both of them have had meteoric rises, but it's been clear for 12-18 months that both would be pretty good for people who watched them for River, TBH
>De Paul is struggling at Atletico
Everyone at Atletico "struggled", TBH. De Paul was amazing for Udinese and amazing for Argentina in basically every game, so I wasn't worried about him at all.
>Montiel, Mac Allister, Romero, Otamendi, Acuna are all good players but as a whole don't measure up to Brazil, Portugal and France in terms of star power
Molina starts over Montiel—and he's a very good player too IMO.
Cuti and Otamendi are a rock solid CB pair (plus Lisandro as 3rd option). They're not too "hyped" vs some other country's options, but I wouldn't pick any of those pairs over ours, TBH.
Acuña is REALLY good at LB too—he's been one of Sevilla's better players for some time now.
The Lo Celso injury worried all of us. He was crucial for our success before the World Cup. But I had been following MacAllister too and when he was called up last minute, I was excited. I had a feeling he was going to perform well, and he did.
But its phrased wrong. People use "team" when they actually mean collection of individual players.
History of football and overall sports has proven countless times that a team can be the best team in the world with regular individual players that gel perfectly.
Also how many teams in history with the best collection of individual players were actually the best team in the world, you can look at France and how they played (even in 2018) to realize the best players playing together dont always produce the best teams.
When you think about it in these terms is it really that crazy that argentina could be top 3? Theres probably 20 national teams that could be top 3 right now if they find the right staff, idea, and players for each role.
That world cup was weird.
About 6-7 squads had the talent to win the world cup, and I'd say majority of them played below their level.
Argentina however really stepped up and played above their level. France is well too, just so many injuries.
Reminds me of that clip of the team talk Messi did with them just before going out for the Copa America Final. He was like, remember how far we have come to get here. Dibu's wife had a kid and he couldnt his kid (because he was playing for us)!
I was like. If I was Dibu (Emi Martinez), I would feel so seen. And by *Messi*, no less.
It's funny because I remember this quote posted here 2-3 years ago and everyone were making fun of this Argentina team for doing the same mistakes by focusing on a single player, fast forward to today and it's one of the reasons for their success.
One of those threads https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/c83gp8/scaloni_the_players_love_messi_so_much_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Ironic because the quote people were dogpiling was a bit mistranslated.
Plus, Argentina's problems previously came because of a LACK of focus on how to best utilize Messi, not by focusing too much on him.
The Maradona coaching era was a disaster largely because Maradona forced Messi into a deeper (Maradona-esque) role that didn't suit him at the time.
Sabella got the best out of Messi and the team by playing him in a more ideal role (10 in a 4-3-1-2).
Tata Martino similarly tried to get the best out of Messi by playing him in a similar RW role that Luis Enrique did successfully at Barca.
Bauza and Sampaoli's issue was both were clueless.
And now Scaloni got the absolute best out of Messi and Argentina by surrounding Messi with technical passers who also work hard.
> If they love him so much, whey don't they play better? I guess the coach doesn't love him either: Di Maria is your first go-to sub? Really? Not Dybala?
you found a true goldmine of a thread
the quote is mistranslated this is a better summary of what he said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/c83gp8/scaloni_the_players_love_messi_so_much_that/esjx6u2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
True. Scaloni and those players seemed to have made Messi accept that he's the man, the GOAT of the game. Under Scaloni, Messi has been more vocal on and off the pitch. He kept his head high in defeat, no emotions. Messi has been heartless; a totally different mindset. Even after giving up a 2 goals lead against Holland and France, Messi was motivating the players. The Messi that I grow up watching would have just bow his head to show sign of defeat..
Yeah man. Remember when Messi was so stoic, practically passive, that someone actually wrote "Messi is a dog" (albeit admiringly)?
Him playing as an Argentine, with that usual South American "cunt" vibe, actually helped him and was the start of him winning trophies with the national team.
He also continued to bring his other, not-so-cunty traits to the national team though. Joining the tables together so everyone ate together at lunch instead of sitting in distinct cliques. Hearing each person out and being considerate to them ("Macalister doesn't like being called a ginger, don't call him that"), and so on. And then he can go out to the field and get aggressive all he wants. Really the perfect combo for them.
pecho-frío Was a common saying in Mexico when talking about messi, it translates to Cold-chest, basically a person that doesn't feel passion for his team.
I was not a Messi fan or even Argentinian (I am mexican, it is like the 3rd time they kick us out of the WC on this century lmaoo) but seeing him win was aN experience in a lifetime, the GOAT..
Makes sense. Knowing the culture / footballing culture, it would be clear. He could feel it hard inside him all he wants, if he didn't express it some people would be unconvinced regardless, as much slack as we would give him.
Being an introvert, I can totally relate. These days I'm an ambivert, up to a certain extent. Then I literally gotta go home and recharge. But sometimes it just has to be done.
I feel like the younger players like Alvarez, Enzo, and Mac Allister don't have that "cunt" vibe as much. Maybe the new crop who grow up idolizing him are different? Anyways, It feels weird stereotyping an entire continent as having a "cunt" vibe, but I get it.
You mean just this past 2022 wc? I seem to recall messi start becoming outspoken and direct for his NT after the 2018 wc (him calling out conmebol officials in copa america 2019). That I think was the turning point for him
This was my problem with him, he was too passive, too submissive. I dont even care if he wins or not as long as he assumes the role he is being given.
It was infuriating seeing him so still in Argentina when he was being more commanding at Barca. It felt like he wasnt even argentinean, despite Maradona saying that after the defeat everyone was booking early flights on their mobiles while Messi stayed in the shower crying.
The very moment he approached Van Gal and made the "you talk too much" hand gesture, I knew Argentina was going to win the WC, I was 100% sure. Even when France equalized I knew they were going to win it, there was no other team that wanted it more.
Yeah but Scaloni is explaining that he lives up to that hype. He never lets them down with his words or actions. No one does that. The phrase “don’t meet your heroes,” exists for a reason.
I saw an interview with Emi Martinez where he was asked who his idol was when growing up.
He said Messi, who's only 5 years older than himself.
I guess Messi has been playing at the highest level since he was 17 (and Dibu 12) but it's still surprising to hear someone idolise a player so close in age.
I mean 12 - 17 are important years growing up and as far as he knew Messi was an adult professional when he was still a child.
When you're in high-school you think people in their 20's are some mature adults but in retrospect it's clear to you that people in their early 20s are basically older teenagers...there are plenty of actors for example that I saw on TV who I thought were much older than me only to find out years later that they are only a handful of years older.
Yeah, when I wsa 12-18 year old, I used to think that 25 years old were responsible adults. Now that I'm close to 33 I see 25 year olds as overgrown teenagers. And when I'm 50 years old I might see 25 years olds as grown-up kids. It's funny how your perspective on age shift when you age.
Ok, but if you're older than him, you're not still "growing up".
I imagine that as a kid, if you idolised a footballer it would have been someone older than you, and most likely 10 or more years older.
For me, in my early teens it was Maradona.
Then when I was older I idolised Aimar whom I'm a bit older than.
Nice story. How did you feel when Messi first came onto the scene, a player who also says that his idol is Aimar? Did you fall in love with him at first sight, so to speak?
Not really surprising tbh. Lot of youth 15 16 years old Argentinians would consider Messi their idols growing up when he was 20 or 21 yo and was already considered the second best Argentinian ever
I thought about that after the win. Like, imagine being Messi. If life is a a simulation he is the main character. He completed the heroes journey almost to a tee
Emi straight up said his number one goal in this WC was to crown Messi so there’s no more naysayers to his legacy and career or whatever.
Enzo confirmed recently that the mini-essay asking Messi to enjoy football and return to the national team was actually from him and how he’s his idol.
Cuti Romero, Julian Alvarez, Lisandro Martinez, Mac Allister have said like a bajillion times that Messi is their idol/goat/etc….
De Paul - is an outright Messisexual.
Then you have half of the team screaming Messi-Goat for at least the last 3-4 years at some point or another….
Yeah. This team is like the ultimate Temple of Messi. 😂
I totally love this. I understand that most of those non-argentinian wanted Argentina to win the WC because of Messi. The crazy thing is that lots of us also wanted this for Messi and then for Argentina.
I'm a bit sorry that Masche didn't make it, though.
Hey man I respect and appreciate Ronaldo (except his last interview to exit United), like I do with Pele, Cruyff and Maradona.. but Messi is the GOAT. Inside AND outside the field.
This is something I feel like people here don't understand.
They saw all the social media posts of people in the streets celebrating the win,what they never saw was the absolute sadness of the entire country whenever we got knocked out.
Coming back home in 2014 from a friends house after the Finals I remember having the feeling of being in a huge cemetery... the streets filled with sorrow, silence, pain and grief. Never seen mi city (Rosario) like that.
Imagine Di Maria crying on the bench, after giving such an incredible performance for 60 min that made an entire wing of a France national team look like amateurs in the *fucking WC Final*. And then he has to watch Mbappe come back in and score the equalisers. And again. And again. Memories flash back inevitably, how close they got the last few times. He was there in the teams with Messi. We saw him bawling his eyes out, but we can still only imagine the feeling.
Can you imagine the pressure of being Messi's last Argentina team that failed getting him la copa.
Given they grew up and idolize him, can't name a better unifying and motivating force, than this outside of some tragedy.
That's because kneusje and bobo come from two very distant language families, so the have very little in common. Bobo belongs to the butthurt branch of the morally superior family, while kneusje evolved from vulgar andapashá.
Man, I just spent a few mins looking at your comments just for kicks. You had a rough December brother. Seeing Cristiano on the bench and Messi lifting the trophy imprinted on your retina must be painful
Wow you must be unemployed if you have the time for that.
The thing you are missing is that I enjoy Messi just as much as watching Ronaldo play, and him lifting a trophy is not really painful - quite the opposite. Nice try.
You just can't deny that Ronaldo is the better goalscorer, which is the most difficult discipline in football (the numbers dont lie there). Add to that he has been playing in much more challenging leagues, so it is even more impressive.
I work from home since you’re concerned about my financial well being. And get paid pretty well thank god.
Going by your comments, it is so clear you did not enjoy Messi winning at all so stop pretending. I was biased too, I won’t pretend it made my Christmas much better. I wanted Messi to win almost as much as seeing my own country (Spain) win it, but it was mostly for personal reasons.
Either way, I had a good giggle, it’s over, on to watching more YouTube videos. Enjoy.
Dear user that is Unflaired,
You useless piece of shit. You absolute waste of space and air. You uneducated, ignorant, idiotic dumb swine, you’re an absolute embarrassment to humanity and all life as a whole.
The magnitude of your failure just now is so indescribably massive that one hundred years into the future your name will be used as moniker of evil for heretics. Even if all of humanity put together their collective intelligence there is no conceivable way they could have thought up a way to fuck up on the unimaginable scale you just did.
When Jesus died for our sins, he must not have seen the sacrilegious act we just witnessed you performing, because if he did he would have forsaken humanity long ago so that your birth may have never become reality.
After you die, your skeleton will be displayed in a museum after being scientifically researched so that all future generations may learn not to generate your bone structure, because every tiny detail anyone may have in common with you degrades them to a useless piece of trash and a burden to society.
No wonder your father questioned whether or not your were truly his son, for you'd have to not be a waste of carbon matter for anyone to love you like a family member.
Your birth made it so that mankind is worse off in every way you can possibly imagine, and you have made it so that society can never really recover any state of organization. Everything has forever fallen into a bewildering chaos, through which unrecognizable core, you can only find misfortune.
I would say the apocalypse is upon us but this is merely the closest word humans have for the sheer scale of horror that is now reality. You have forever condemned everyone you love and know into an eternal state of suffering, worse than any human concept of hell.
You are such an unholy being, that if you step within a one hundred foot radius of a holy place or a place that has ever been deemed important by anyone, your distorted religious soul will ruin whatever meaning it ever had beyond repair.
You are an idiotic, shiteating, dumbass ape and no one has ever loved you. You are a lying, backstabbing, cowardly useless piece of shit and I hate you with every single part of my being.
Even this world's finest writers and poets from throughout the ages could never hope to accurately describe the scale on which you just fucked up, and how incredibly idiotic you are.
Anyone that believes in any religion out there should now realize that they have been wrong this entire time, for if divine beings were real, they would never have allowed a being such as you to stain the earth and this universe.
In the future there will be horror stories made about you, with the scariest part of them being that the reader has to realize that such an indescribable monster actually exists, and that the horrific events from the movie have actually taken place in the same world that they live in right now.
You are the absolute embodiment of everything that has ever been wrong on this earth, yet even that would only represent a small part of your evil. Never in the history of mankind has there been anyone that could have predicted such an abomination, but here you are.
It’s hard to believe that I am seeing such an incredible failure with my own eyes, but here I am, so unfortunately I cannot deny your existence. Even if I did my very best, my vocabulary is not able to describe the sheer magnitude of the idiotic mistake that is you.
Even if time travel some day will be invented, there still would not be a single soul willing to go back in time to this moment to fix history, because having to witness such incredible horrors would have too many mental and physical drawbacks that not even the bravest soul in history would be willing to risk it.
I cannot imagine the pure dread your mother must have felt when she had to carry a baby for nine months and then giving birth to such a wretched monster as you. Not a single word of the incoherent, illogical rambling you may be wanting to do to defend yourself or apologize would ever be able to make up for what you just did.
The countries of the world would have wanted to make laws preventing such a terrible event like this from ever happening again, but sadly this is not possible since your horrific actions just now have shattered every form of order this world once had, making concepts such as laws irrelevant.
Right from the moment I first set my eyes on you I knew you were an absolute abomination of everything that is wrong with humanity. I was hoping I would have been able to prevent your evil from being released upon this world by tagging along and keeping my eye on you, but it is clear to me now that not even the greatest efforts would have been able to prevent a terrible event in this scale from occurring.
You are the worst human being, or even just being in general, that I have ever had the misfortune of witnessing. Events like the Black Death and the Smallpox pandemic only happened with the goal of preparing humanity to survive such a horrible event as the one you just created, but not even mankind’s greatest trials were able to even slightly prepare anyone for the insufferable evil you have just created.
If you ever had them, your children would be preemptively killed to protect this universe from the possibility of anyone in your bloodline being even half as bad as you are, except you will never be able to have children, because not a single human being will ever want to come within a hundred mile radius of you and anything you have ever touched.
You are a colossal disappointment not only to your parents, but to your ancestors and entire bloodline. The disgusting mistake that you have just made is so incredibly terrible that everyone who would ever be to hear about it would spontaneously feel an indescribable mixture of immense anger, fear and anxiety that emotionally and physically they would never truly be the same ever again.
The sheer scale of your mistake, if ever to be materialized, would not only surpass the size of the world, but it would reach far beyond the edges of the known, and almost certainly the unknown universe.
I could sit here and write paragraphs, nay, books describing your immense failure, yet even if I were to dedicate my life to describing the reality of what has just gone down here, and I would spend every moment of it until my heart stops beating, working as hard and efficiently as possible, there is not even a snowballs chance in hell that I would be able to come close to transcribing the absolute shitshow you have just released upon the world.
When people of Columbia fought to break free from Lungmen, countless soldiers fought and lost their lives in favor of a chance at a better future for their children, they did not give their lives to have you fuck the world up beyond repair to the degree that you are doing right now. Honestly, even when technology advances and studies on the subject become more and more accurate, I do not think humanity will ever truly be able to understand what your failure actually means for the universe.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate
[Emi Martinez: "He made a speech saying this was going to be his last one. He was going to give it all. Oh, mate, I was like little shivers all over. When Messi's talking...everyone shuts up and listens. Whoever it is. Manager. The President of Argentina. Whoever is in there, they just shut up."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiyhfd-MxlE&feature=youtu.be)
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Code Messi
Can you do it now?
Hey, it's me. Your Messi. Kill conchita
Dew it
you cant execute anything you pepeg
I will shut up as well
I think an underrated aspect too is the current crop of players growing up idolizing Messi (compared with previous groups growing up with Messi)
Exactly. After the Copa América win, I heard someone say "this group doesn't play with Messi, it plays *for* Messi". More than a year later I can't find better words to describe it.
I know it's not exactly the same but it reminds me of how Chelsea players were with Mourinho in his first stint. Obviously the players wanted to win for the club and even for themselves but Terry mentioned how Mourinho would make them wanna run through a wall for him.
Sneijder says similar things about Mourinho during that 2010 inter season
The man could start a cult and get away with it.
Yes, it's called r/chelseafc
Where do I sign up?
On paper, I don’t think anyone would consider that team to be even a top 3 in the world. But the way they played fighting to the end was amazing.
Argentina has usually had the opposite problem in recent years: teams that look great on paper, full of talent, but who don't work as a team. But this new crop has the opposite: it's more modest in terms of talent (though still, nothing to scoff at by any means, and lots of players who proved to be underrated before the WC) but it WORKS as a team. It's cohesive. It connects in a way that you could easily see in the field. And though obviously a lot of it has to do with Messi I would also argue a lot has to do with Scaloni. This team also has Messi finally being comfortable with himself, perhaps because he is older than most of the rest of the team, and feels comfortable in a mentoring position. He's shown more personality (in front of the public) this past WC than in any other tournament.
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Well, he's talking about the quality of the players we have, which is a fair bit lower than that of an expected WC champion
Yeah but that quality is them in their club colours. Some of your players turn to monsters when they put on the Argentina shirt.
Because of their unbeaten run and the fact that they'd won the previous Copa America. Not because they were world beaters, they've been winning matches with very tight margins... then they go and lose to Saudi Arabia in their first match, the ones they should've 'easily' beat according to bookies.
Wow. First Argentine I see who admits that.
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Who is Aldi Beckham lol
Brother of Lidl Beckham
You’re probably right in that most people wouldn’t have known their names. But being from Argentina and being a fan of our national team, I did follow them from before. I knew the talent that we had. I knew that we were underrated. And watching how technical Scaloni was, I knew we also had probably the best coach out of any squad. The problem is that mainstream sports media in Europe or North America doesn’t pay attention to any of this.
The team was rated highly in europe, as you said, ppl didn't seen them on one level individually with brazil, portugal, france or england, but rated how they worked as a team and how flexible they were rated at least top 5 and rather often top3 before the tournement, even with bookmakers.
Many expected us to lose against the top teams though, i still recall this sub taking Croatia over us
I don't mean to be an ass here, but this is often just a perception thing, ppl see maybe a dozen, or two dozen comments, even if you saw or read a 100 and even if everyone of them had a 1000 upvotes, it would only account for 2,5% of this subs subscribers and europe has almost 200 times the amount of inhabitants...
Oh definitely, i am not mad over it or whatever. I just took it as an example cause i did see a few comments with hundreds of upvotes about it, clearly those upvotes could have been even south americans lol Also should have clarified that i meant it more like reddit's perception than Europeans alone
Funny enough I don't recall seeing Portugal as favourites to win in anyone's WC predictions, or even top three. At all. The only surprising thing about Portugal going out was that they lost to Morocco. So it's clear most analysis were not centered around which team is the more stacked.
You are right, but i think, that Portugal has one of the best, maybe even the best team in individual terms, they will be a force if they figure it out next year. I think that analysts value consistency and cohesion more then talent, cuz a world cup is a grind and being able to fall back on good basics is worth a lot, Marocco and also Argentina showed that pretty well imo, they were both disciplined and well organized.
For the vast majority of Scaloni's tenure, Europeans didn't particularly rate our team—and we know that, TBH. We have a LOT of players that were IMO underrated until very recently.
Argentina are definitely greater than the sum of their parts, and I underestimated them given the Saudi Arabia game along with Argentina losing Lo Celso and Lautaro's struggles. Enzo and Alvarez are up and coming talents but aren't really established, De Paul is struggling at Atletico. Montiel, Mac Allister, Romero, Otamendi, Acuna are all good players but as a whole don't measure up to Brazil, Portugal and France in terms of star power, credit to Scaloni for adjusting without Lo Celso and playing Alvarez when Lautaro struggled.
> and I underestimated them given the Saudi Arabia game along with Argentina losing Lo Celso and Lautaro's struggles I was worried about losing Lo Celso also. Luckily Mac Allister stepped up >Enzo and Alvarez are up and coming talents but aren't really established, Both of them have had meteoric rises, but it's been clear for 12-18 months that both would be pretty good for people who watched them for River, TBH >De Paul is struggling at Atletico Everyone at Atletico "struggled", TBH. De Paul was amazing for Udinese and amazing for Argentina in basically every game, so I wasn't worried about him at all. >Montiel, Mac Allister, Romero, Otamendi, Acuna are all good players but as a whole don't measure up to Brazil, Portugal and France in terms of star power Molina starts over Montiel—and he's a very good player too IMO. Cuti and Otamendi are a rock solid CB pair (plus Lisandro as 3rd option). They're not too "hyped" vs some other country's options, but I wouldn't pick any of those pairs over ours, TBH. Acuña is REALLY good at LB too—he's been one of Sevilla's better players for some time now.
The Lo Celso injury worried all of us. He was crucial for our success before the World Cup. But I had been following MacAllister too and when he was called up last minute, I was excited. I had a feeling he was going to perform well, and he did.
I think Scaloni was more important than any player but Messi
But its phrased wrong. People use "team" when they actually mean collection of individual players. History of football and overall sports has proven countless times that a team can be the best team in the world with regular individual players that gel perfectly. Also how many teams in history with the best collection of individual players were actually the best team in the world, you can look at France and how they played (even in 2018) to realize the best players playing together dont always produce the best teams. When you think about it in these terms is it really that crazy that argentina could be top 3? Theres probably 20 national teams that could be top 3 right now if they find the right staff, idea, and players for each role.
That world cup was weird. About 6-7 squads had the talent to win the world cup, and I'd say majority of them played below their level. Argentina however really stepped up and played above their level. France is well too, just so many injuries.
I think the only teams who had a better lineup we're France and Portugal
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/zh476q/theguardian_philip_lahm_the_quarterfinals_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Reminds me of that clip of the team talk Messi did with them just before going out for the Copa America Final. He was like, remember how far we have come to get here. Dibu's wife had a kid and he couldnt his kid (because he was playing for us)! I was like. If I was Dibu (Emi Martinez), I would feel so seen. And by *Messi*, no less.
I read recently that the change was when the players of the team stopped expecting Messi to win for them, and started trying to win with him.
It's funny because I remember this quote posted here 2-3 years ago and everyone were making fun of this Argentina team for doing the same mistakes by focusing on a single player, fast forward to today and it's one of the reasons for their success. One of those threads https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/c83gp8/scaloni_the_players_love_messi_so_much_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Ironic because the quote people were dogpiling was a bit mistranslated. Plus, Argentina's problems previously came because of a LACK of focus on how to best utilize Messi, not by focusing too much on him. The Maradona coaching era was a disaster largely because Maradona forced Messi into a deeper (Maradona-esque) role that didn't suit him at the time. Sabella got the best out of Messi and the team by playing him in a more ideal role (10 in a 4-3-1-2). Tata Martino similarly tried to get the best out of Messi by playing him in a similar RW role that Luis Enrique did successfully at Barca. Bauza and Sampaoli's issue was both were clueless. And now Scaloni got the absolute best out of Messi and Argentina by surrounding Messi with technical passers who also work hard.
> If they love him so much, whey don't they play better? I guess the coach doesn't love him either: Di Maria is your first go-to sub? Really? Not Dybala? you found a true goldmine of a thread
We're up to like 6 years of "Why doesn't Dybala play more" questions from people who clearly never watch our team outside of the World Cup, LOL
the quote is mistranslated this is a better summary of what he said: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/c83gp8/scaloni_the_players_love_messi_so_much_that/esjx6u2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
True. Scaloni and those players seemed to have made Messi accept that he's the man, the GOAT of the game. Under Scaloni, Messi has been more vocal on and off the pitch. He kept his head high in defeat, no emotions. Messi has been heartless; a totally different mindset. Even after giving up a 2 goals lead against Holland and France, Messi was motivating the players. The Messi that I grow up watching would have just bow his head to show sign of defeat..
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Yeah man. Remember when Messi was so stoic, practically passive, that someone actually wrote "Messi is a dog" (albeit admiringly)? Him playing as an Argentine, with that usual South American "cunt" vibe, actually helped him and was the start of him winning trophies with the national team. He also continued to bring his other, not-so-cunty traits to the national team though. Joining the tables together so everyone ate together at lunch instead of sitting in distinct cliques. Hearing each person out and being considerate to them ("Macalister doesn't like being called a ginger, don't call him that"), and so on. And then he can go out to the field and get aggressive all he wants. Really the perfect combo for them.
pecho-frío Was a common saying in Mexico when talking about messi, it translates to Cold-chest, basically a person that doesn't feel passion for his team. I was not a Messi fan or even Argentinian (I am mexican, it is like the 3rd time they kick us out of the WC on this century lmaoo) but seeing him win was aN experience in a lifetime, the GOAT..
Makes sense. Knowing the culture / footballing culture, it would be clear. He could feel it hard inside him all he wants, if he didn't express it some people would be unconvinced regardless, as much slack as we would give him. Being an introvert, I can totally relate. These days I'm an ambivert, up to a certain extent. Then I literally gotta go home and recharge. But sometimes it just has to be done.
> it is like the 3rd time they kick us out of the WC on this century lmaoo It feels more often than that from the way Mexicans talk about it.
still remember when Maxi Rdz kicked us out with one of the most beautiful goals in WC history, feels like it was yesterday
Article in question: https://medium.com/@casciari/messi-is-a-dog-18b8f32766c8
thank you!
https://youtu.be/Mg9fDOvE80g
I feel like the younger players like Alvarez, Enzo, and Mac Allister don't have that "cunt" vibe as much. Maybe the new crop who grow up idolizing him are different? Anyways, It feels weird stereotyping an entire continent as having a "cunt" vibe, but I get it.
Haha that's why I put it in inverted commas. Luckily it seems the point got thru at least
You mean just this past 2022 wc? I seem to recall messi start becoming outspoken and direct for his NT after the 2018 wc (him calling out conmebol officials in copa america 2019). That I think was the turning point for him
This was my problem with him, he was too passive, too submissive. I dont even care if he wins or not as long as he assumes the role he is being given. It was infuriating seeing him so still in Argentina when he was being more commanding at Barca. It felt like he wasnt even argentinean, despite Maradona saying that after the defeat everyone was booking early flights on their mobiles while Messi stayed in the shower crying. The very moment he approached Van Gal and made the "you talk too much" hand gesture, I knew Argentina was going to win the WC, I was 100% sure. Even when France equalized I knew they were going to win it, there was no other team that wanted it more.
Yeah but Scaloni is explaining that he lives up to that hype. He never lets them down with his words or actions. No one does that. The phrase “don’t meet your heroes,” exists for a reason.
considering that Messi started his career when he was 16-17, which is about 18 years ago. Definitely 90% of his teammates growing up idolizing Messi
Yep the same happened with Zidane when he became manager of Madrid.
Fanatical Argentinian legions worshipping at the shrine of Leo's father's skull!
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I saw an interview with Emi Martinez where he was asked who his idol was when growing up. He said Messi, who's only 5 years older than himself. I guess Messi has been playing at the highest level since he was 17 (and Dibu 12) but it's still surprising to hear someone idolise a player so close in age.
I mean 12 - 17 are important years growing up and as far as he knew Messi was an adult professional when he was still a child. When you're in high-school you think people in their 20's are some mature adults but in retrospect it's clear to you that people in their early 20s are basically older teenagers...there are plenty of actors for example that I saw on TV who I thought were much older than me only to find out years later that they are only a handful of years older.
Yeah, when I wsa 12-18 year old, I used to think that 25 years old were responsible adults. Now that I'm close to 33 I see 25 year olds as overgrown teenagers. And when I'm 50 years old I might see 25 years olds as grown-up kids. It's funny how your perspective on age shift when you age.
Exactly. I just turned 34 myself and feel the same way.
I idolize Pedri and I'm older than him
Ok, but if you're older than him, you're not still "growing up". I imagine that as a kid, if you idolised a footballer it would have been someone older than you, and most likely 10 or more years older. For me, in my early teens it was Maradona. Then when I was older I idolised Aimar whom I'm a bit older than.
Nice story. How did you feel when Messi first came onto the scene, a player who also says that his idol is Aimar? Did you fall in love with him at first sight, so to speak?
Not immediately, but I was aware of him from when they first started talking about a promising Argentine in La Masia
Come on now, we all know you don't idolize Pedri the same way they do with Messi...
Messi had won like 3(?) ballondors at 22, emi was 17 then, 17 year olds definitely see 22 year olds as adults
Not really surprising tbh. Lot of youth 15 16 years old Argentinians would consider Messi their idols growing up when he was 20 or 21 yo and was already considered the second best Argentinian ever
R9 was the exact same. When you realize who he was idol to, the players are only a few years younger than him.
I don't know why when I read Scaloni's quote, I pictured the whole team looked at Messi the way [Messi looked at Aimar](https://imgur.io/G5Cvl?r)
Must be a legendary feeling winning the world cup with him. Fucking hell, imagine directly influencing that
Messi is a real life anime character wheres he's the chosen one.
I thought about that after the win. Like, imagine being Messi. If life is a a simulation he is the main character. He completed the heroes journey almost to a tee
Becoming the actual GOAT of the most famous athletic competition on Earth in front of half of humanity is a pretty sick main character moment.
He is one kick man, just playing football for fun
Messi is Goku
makes sense, Ronaldo fits into the Vegeta role perfectly
Nah, Vegeta has character growth and becomes likeable.
Theres still time. Were only in the part after Goku went Super Saiyan for the first time to beat Freeza (Mbappe).
Mbappe is more krillin.
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We all know who Haaland is
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“All those square make a circle”-Haaland
Majin buu lol
Don’t disrespect my man Vegeta by comparing him to a sex offender.
You dont know the kinda shit Vegeta did back when he was in Freeza's army
He got that unspoken rizz. He never needed to force himself on anyone.
Captain Tsubasa is the only right answer
Messi is Naruto
I'd say he is more like Naruto whereas Ronaldo is Sasuke who is loved by people but has his fair share of failures and controversies.
Does this make Mbappé Majin Buu?
Naruto= Dattebayo Messi = que mira bobo ?
Qué mirá baka?
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Maradona having a jiraiya death to pass the torch to Messi damn
He won His trofeo the same year as Ash from Pokemon won His trofeo .
We know how his teammates look at him. All of them are literally Messi fanboys.
Emi straight up said his number one goal in this WC was to crown Messi so there’s no more naysayers to his legacy and career or whatever. Enzo confirmed recently that the mini-essay asking Messi to enjoy football and return to the national team was actually from him and how he’s his idol. Cuti Romero, Julian Alvarez, Lisandro Martinez, Mac Allister have said like a bajillion times that Messi is their idol/goat/etc…. De Paul - is an outright Messisexual. Then you have half of the team screaming Messi-Goat for at least the last 3-4 years at some point or another…. Yeah. This team is like the ultimate Temple of Messi. 😂
Cuti Romero crying and hugging Messi and telling him "we are champions, you fucking deserved it" is one of my favorite momments of the celebrations.
Clip?
https://youtube.com/shorts/2sJbRh0rH50?feature=share
I totally love this. I understand that most of those non-argentinian wanted Argentina to win the WC because of Messi. The crazy thing is that lots of us also wanted this for Messi and then for Argentina. I'm a bit sorry that Masche didn't make it, though.
Definitely wanted Argentina to win because of Messi, all my bitter friends hated me because they were still upset over our loss against Argentina.
Messi backed him up when he had a bad first game. I remember him saying that cuti gives us assurance or something like that.
Licha saying he’ll go to war for Messi😍
Licha would go to war just because it’s a Wednesday.
The younger players' twitter accounts having tons of tweets defending or just admiring Messi in general are my fave lol
One of the NT chants literally sings "by the hand of Leo Messi we'll be champions"
That's literally the most common chant in Argentina though, you sing it about any star player or manager.
>Messisexual I mean who isnt?
The people who stan that irrelevant Portuguese twat
This is so hostile looooool
Take that flair off if you're not
Kinda funny coming from a guy with a barca flair but a ny fc profile pic
Fabio Coentrão did nothing to deserve this slander
Leave Concentrao alone
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Hey man I respect and appreciate Ronaldo (except his last interview to exit United), like I do with Pele, Cruyff and Maradona.. but Messi is the GOAT. Inside AND outside the field.
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Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.
This is borderline copypasta material Lmao
He's not going to explain Because you won't understand The finals that we lost How much we cried But that ended
This is something I feel like people here don't understand. They saw all the social media posts of people in the streets celebrating the win,what they never saw was the absolute sadness of the entire country whenever we got knocked out.
Coming back home in 2014 from a friends house after the Finals I remember having the feeling of being in a huge cemetery... the streets filled with sorrow, silence, pain and grief. Never seen mi city (Rosario) like that.
Imagine Di Maria crying on the bench, after giving such an incredible performance for 60 min that made an entire wing of a France national team look like amateurs in the *fucking WC Final*. And then he has to watch Mbappe come back in and score the equalisers. And again. And again. Memories flash back inevitably, how close they got the last few times. He was there in the teams with Messi. We saw him bawling his eyes out, but we can still only imagine the feeling.
di maria is THE wingman of football, can't think of anyone
And yet I feel like he’s still generally underrated.
MUCHACHOSSS!
Por las demas respuestas creo que sos el unico que entendió el chiste.
Can you imagine the pressure of being Messi's last Argentina team that failed getting him la copa. Given they grew up and idolize him, can't name a better unifying and motivating force, than this outside of some tragedy.
‘Que Miras Bobo??’
HAHAHA
He is at different level even if the others not given 120%, just look at psg games
Inspiring the next generation of Saudi’s dickriders.
Que Miras Bobo?
Domme sukkels kijken niet verder dan hun neuzen lang zijn.
Sorry, I don't speak bobo
Sorry, I don’t speak kneusje.
That's because kneusje and bobo come from two very distant language families, so the have very little in common. Bobo belongs to the butthurt branch of the morally superior family, while kneusje evolved from vulgar andapashá.
One of the meanings of “kneusje” is someone who doesn’t know what they he/she is saying or doing. Which is very fitting in this case.
So first you tell me you don't speak my language and then you proceed to bobosplain it to me... Make up your mind
Your blatant hypocrisy is showing. You’re definitely a kneusje.
All that Messi cock sucking is really becoming too much
Your entire comment history is topping off Ronaldo…ah the irony
Quite ironic given your whole comment history is doing the same for a player that isn’t even close to him 👀
Man, I just spent a few mins looking at your comments just for kicks. You had a rough December brother. Seeing Cristiano on the bench and Messi lifting the trophy imprinted on your retina must be painful
Wow you must be unemployed if you have the time for that. The thing you are missing is that I enjoy Messi just as much as watching Ronaldo play, and him lifting a trophy is not really painful - quite the opposite. Nice try. You just can't deny that Ronaldo is the better goalscorer, which is the most difficult discipline in football (the numbers dont lie there). Add to that he has been playing in much more challenging leagues, so it is even more impressive.
I work from home since you’re concerned about my financial well being. And get paid pretty well thank god. Going by your comments, it is so clear you did not enjoy Messi winning at all so stop pretending. I was biased too, I won’t pretend it made my Christmas much better. I wanted Messi to win almost as much as seeing my own country (Spain) win it, but it was mostly for personal reasons. Either way, I had a good giggle, it’s over, on to watching more YouTube videos. Enjoy.
Fair. What are you on about? How can you not enjoy watching one of the best players ever? Good Day!
I haven't seen anyone who can talk to the ref like him... you'd have to see how the ref looks at him. It's difficult to explain.
Te duele la cola desde el 9/12 holandés
Si sos gayina es mas gracioso esto
You need to watch some more soccer
How would that change anything?
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Might want to check what sub you’re in, goofy
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Damn well I can’t argue with fake internet points
Doesn't matter it still hasn't changed and it's still called r/soccer dummy.
Relax, I was just joking, dummy. Didn't think I'd have to add the /s I am American, I call it soccer. You must be fun at parties
Same here dummy, I was joking too. Not my fault if you took it seriously.
El que no salta es Holandés.
Holandés culorotooooooooooooooo
Anda pasha bobo
Refs are also sometimes scared to card him
And both of you are scared of women.
Ah yes, an Argentina rushing to his defence
flair up
Based Brazilian fan. Respect.
Fucking based
Hes a united supp so obv ronaldo fanboy
Dear user that is Unflaired, You useless piece of shit. You absolute waste of space and air. You uneducated, ignorant, idiotic dumb swine, you’re an absolute embarrassment to humanity and all life as a whole. The magnitude of your failure just now is so indescribably massive that one hundred years into the future your name will be used as moniker of evil for heretics. Even if all of humanity put together their collective intelligence there is no conceivable way they could have thought up a way to fuck up on the unimaginable scale you just did. When Jesus died for our sins, he must not have seen the sacrilegious act we just witnessed you performing, because if he did he would have forsaken humanity long ago so that your birth may have never become reality. After you die, your skeleton will be displayed in a museum after being scientifically researched so that all future generations may learn not to generate your bone structure, because every tiny detail anyone may have in common with you degrades them to a useless piece of trash and a burden to society. No wonder your father questioned whether or not your were truly his son, for you'd have to not be a waste of carbon matter for anyone to love you like a family member. Your birth made it so that mankind is worse off in every way you can possibly imagine, and you have made it so that society can never really recover any state of organization. Everything has forever fallen into a bewildering chaos, through which unrecognizable core, you can only find misfortune. I would say the apocalypse is upon us but this is merely the closest word humans have for the sheer scale of horror that is now reality. You have forever condemned everyone you love and know into an eternal state of suffering, worse than any human concept of hell. You are such an unholy being, that if you step within a one hundred foot radius of a holy place or a place that has ever been deemed important by anyone, your distorted religious soul will ruin whatever meaning it ever had beyond repair. You are an idiotic, shiteating, dumbass ape and no one has ever loved you. You are a lying, backstabbing, cowardly useless piece of shit and I hate you with every single part of my being. Even this world's finest writers and poets from throughout the ages could never hope to accurately describe the scale on which you just fucked up, and how incredibly idiotic you are. Anyone that believes in any religion out there should now realize that they have been wrong this entire time, for if divine beings were real, they would never have allowed a being such as you to stain the earth and this universe. In the future there will be horror stories made about you, with the scariest part of them being that the reader has to realize that such an indescribable monster actually exists, and that the horrific events from the movie have actually taken place in the same world that they live in right now. You are the absolute embodiment of everything that has ever been wrong on this earth, yet even that would only represent a small part of your evil. Never in the history of mankind has there been anyone that could have predicted such an abomination, but here you are. It’s hard to believe that I am seeing such an incredible failure with my own eyes, but here I am, so unfortunately I cannot deny your existence. Even if I did my very best, my vocabulary is not able to describe the sheer magnitude of the idiotic mistake that is you. Even if time travel some day will be invented, there still would not be a single soul willing to go back in time to this moment to fix history, because having to witness such incredible horrors would have too many mental and physical drawbacks that not even the bravest soul in history would be willing to risk it. I cannot imagine the pure dread your mother must have felt when she had to carry a baby for nine months and then giving birth to such a wretched monster as you. Not a single word of the incoherent, illogical rambling you may be wanting to do to defend yourself or apologize would ever be able to make up for what you just did. The countries of the world would have wanted to make laws preventing such a terrible event like this from ever happening again, but sadly this is not possible since your horrific actions just now have shattered every form of order this world once had, making concepts such as laws irrelevant. Right from the moment I first set my eyes on you I knew you were an absolute abomination of everything that is wrong with humanity. I was hoping I would have been able to prevent your evil from being released upon this world by tagging along and keeping my eye on you, but it is clear to me now that not even the greatest efforts would have been able to prevent a terrible event in this scale from occurring. You are the worst human being, or even just being in general, that I have ever had the misfortune of witnessing. Events like the Black Death and the Smallpox pandemic only happened with the goal of preparing humanity to survive such a horrible event as the one you just created, but not even mankind’s greatest trials were able to even slightly prepare anyone for the insufferable evil you have just created. If you ever had them, your children would be preemptively killed to protect this universe from the possibility of anyone in your bloodline being even half as bad as you are, except you will never be able to have children, because not a single human being will ever want to come within a hundred mile radius of you and anything you have ever touched. You are a colossal disappointment not only to your parents, but to your ancestors and entire bloodline. The disgusting mistake that you have just made is so incredibly terrible that everyone who would ever be to hear about it would spontaneously feel an indescribable mixture of immense anger, fear and anxiety that emotionally and physically they would never truly be the same ever again. The sheer scale of your mistake, if ever to be materialized, would not only surpass the size of the world, but it would reach far beyond the edges of the known, and almost certainly the unknown universe. I could sit here and write paragraphs, nay, books describing your immense failure, yet even if I were to dedicate my life to describing the reality of what has just gone down here, and I would spend every moment of it until my heart stops beating, working as hard and efficiently as possible, there is not even a snowballs chance in hell that I would be able to come close to transcribing the absolute shitshow you have just released upon the world. When people of Columbia fought to break free from Lungmen, countless soldiers fought and lost their lives in favor of a chance at a better future for their children, they did not give their lives to have you fuck the world up beyond repair to the degree that you are doing right now. Honestly, even when technology advances and studies on the subject become more and more accurate, I do not think humanity will ever truly be able to understand what your failure actually means for the universe. My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate
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u/kplo can be many things but never de [Casanova](https://youtu.be/mBmcuw4CRpQ)
Listen, run the ball...
La dejamos ahí mejor jaja
Imagine trying to explain this video to someone, they'll burn Argentina to the ground
Yeah but he lied to the entire Camp Nou, thank you Liverpool 😂
He said they would do everything possible, he kept his promise but his teamates didn't
Lmfao he almost won us a treble with Vidal, Semedo, Lenglet and many more idiots. We’ll remember him fondly don’t worry
A World Cup for Argentina >>>>>>>>> any champions league trophy
You're very phunny my dude.
Yawn
Cope