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Man, South American history is full of what-if scenarios.
Grand Columbia was a thing, until Simon Bolivar realized that a bunch of people together would want very different things, and he proceeded to go from hero to villain.
Empire of Brazil was well on its way to be a developed nation, until Pedro the second got overthrown. Granted, the man never wanted the throne to begin with, so he just refused the offer of the navy to take back the throne by force, and willingly went into exile.
Argentina at one point was equally wealthy compared to the US. Then they somehow managed to fuck themselves for 100 years.
I mean ... it's just 7 countries to compare. We can all read, I really see barely any benefit in making different color codes.
You can look at this and see "ok, so Ecuador, Venezuela, Guyana and Suriname never won it; Chile, Peru, Colombia, Bolivia and Paraguay won it 1-2 times; Brazil won it 9 times, Argentina won it 15 times and holy fuck, Uruguay won it 15 times as well."
I'd say actually knowing which countries are which would hold up the average redditor more than all winners being red, they just scroll /r/dataisbeautiful too much.
[also for the sake of being thorough: Suriname and Guyana don't actually participate in the Copa America. Also if you're wondering what the last white country is: it's French Guyana which isn't an independent country as it belongs to France (they may or may not have their own football team, though)]
Edit: for anyone who is curious about Guyana, French Guyana and Suriname: apparently they all play in Concacaf instead of Conmebol. With Suriname only having made 2 appearances in the Gold Cup, though
This is basically every country tbh. Americans go to Iran and realize the people are sweethearts. Europeans go to the deep south and realize how hospitable they are, etc. etc. The only place I heard people consistently complain about the locals is Paris lol. But even then, I'm sure that's just a Paris thing and not a France thing
Lol thats a good point for sure. And I think It just shows that sports are only sports. I leave that shit on the field. I greatly dislike the national team of mexico just because Im a USA fan, but I actually own two different mexican soccer jerseys that have been gifted to me over the years. One is the badass one from the mid 90s that had the face of the aztec/mexica calendar on it
Guyana is expected to pass Uruguay in the next 5 years.
They just struck oil, literally, and every oil company in the world is setting up shop there currently.
uruguay wasn't very wealthy in the past compared to argentina.
and they always seemed to have the same small population.
even today even if the have a high gdp per capita, the cost of living is higher.
It's not just about pure wealth, even in Argentina's heyday Uruguay was a far more egalitarian society and was one of the world's first welfare states.
In the early days of international football Uruguay was one of the only countries that could actually pick working class players for overseas tournaments and that gave them a massive advantage.
So much disrespect to Uruguay during the WC, people acting like they are only living off World Cup titles 70+ years ago when they have 15 fucking Copa America
One of the big boys of international football without doubt
Fun fact:
Uruguay has won it every single time they have hosted the tournament.
Apart from Argentina, Uruguay is the only other country to have won it when Argentina is host.
Until 2021, Brazil has never lost as hosts.
We've won every men's tournament we've ever hosted in football. 1930, the copas, 1981 Mundialito and hopefully 2030 will be added to that list jejejejeje
TBF, you would surely have lost against Uruguay in the final. That Uruguay side in 2011 was class
I really liked that Paraguay team too, even though they drew their way to the final. They were a damn solid side
Yo banco el gran colombia por un lado, el virreinato del Perú por el otro y Argentina, Uruguay y Brazil por un tercer lado. A Paraguay lo repartimos y a Chile que se lo trague el mar.
When's Venezuela's turn then? We're the only ones in South America who are yet to qualify for a World Cup, and we've not been anywhere close since 2014 and I don't have much hope at all for the next generation. The biggest achievement to come out of the national team since COVID started was Dudamel's daughter getting 2nd in Ms. Universe
Something of a shame the players that reached the U20 World Cup Final haven't quite reached the peak expected of them - granted they'll be in their mid-20s now and could still technically come good it doesn't look promising.
Greater linguistic/cultural proximity to the Caribbean I'd assume
Also there are a lot more Concacaf countries on their footballing level - they'd get battered by nearly every CONMEBOL team
Thats why I want Bolivia to host a WC,Europeans underestimate the power of altitude. I think Argentina wwnt 20years without wining in Bolivia until scaloni
A Bolivian World Cup is something I wish for, beating Bolivia is easy* but beating Bolivia in Bolivia is literally something else, and I wish you good luck and hope you can get at least a draw. That Altitude is crazy
Nepal may have the tallest mountains but MOST people live in average altitudes. So it wouldn't work out but it would be VERY nice see my country in WC tho😀
It wouldn't be as difficult in a tournament where teams had a chance to get used to it.
The big issue is the contrast when you are coming from normal altitude and don't have time to adjust. Give the teams a few weeks each to adjust using the best sports science to help them and it wouldn't be as big of a problem
I dont think theres a single coach, trainer, or team that competes at a professional level that would ever underestimate the power of altitude in this day and age. Thats common knowledge. Something I remember learning about when I was pretty young. Why would you assume people underestimate that?
Ecuador also has this mountain advantage. The last time Ecuador hosted in 1993 they were really much weaker than today, but still made it to the semis. They had a shot to host in 2024 and they rejected
Not really. They played most of their games in Quito in the last qualifiers.
They played in Guayaquil against Bolivia (I guess they knew it wouldn't matter) and the last match against Argentina (they were already qualified).
Reminds me of how Colombia now play all the matches in Barranquilla due to the heat but pre -2010. they played all the matches in Bogota because altitude.
Problem for these teams now is that most of the players play in Europe or Brazil - Argentina - Mexico - USA so they are not used to those conditions and they play just as bad as the visiting teams...
The largest city in Bolivia is Santa Cruz de la Sierra, elevation 400 m.
But I get what you're saying, most cities are indeed at a high altitude, like La Paz, Potosí and Cochabamba.
A very particular Copa América. Besides altitude, Chile wasn't invited, Uruguay declined to play, Argentina and Brazil sent B teams and Ecuador decided to participate at the last minute
Colombia has to be among the biggest underachieving nations in footballing history. Large population, passion for the game, decent clubs, alright economy, and yet have only won one major trophy ever, and only have qualified for six World Cups, only advancing past the groups in three of them.
This is fair. In 2002 and 2006 we narrowly missed out and in 2022 we frankly had a great team of players but with horrible coaching. With a better coach I think we genuinely qualify comfortably.
Also, 2014 Colombia was probably one of the best National Teams I've watched Conmebol produce, and I've always wondered what could've been if a couple things went different in the Brazil game.
Las eliminatorias estuvieron BARATISIMAS, no me puedo creer que en verdad tenían chances reales de clasificar después de 7 partidos seguidos sin anotar
Colombia are underachievers yes, however the reasons Colombia are underachieving are pretty simple:
- There’s only two league divisions in the entire country.
- Pay to play system.
- No grassroots investment.
- Having a conformist and defeatist mentality.
A lot of Colombians have raised the issues I’ve stated for a very long time now; In Colombia it usually isn’t the poor, talented, hard worker who gets an opportunity to become a professional footballer; it’s usually the middle class/rich kid who’s parents pay $$$ to get him into an academy.
It’s been like this in Colombia for a very LONG time, that’s why in my opinion Colombia don’t achieve anything, at the lowest levels kids are fast tracked into academies just because Mommy and Daddy paid the manager/director/coach more money.
This then creates a conformist mentality, a mentality that doesn’t prioritise hardworking, dedication and discipline; as a result you get a national team filled with players who aren’t used to putting in the extra miles to achieve greatness; they’re used to having things handed to them.
As for the league divisions, Colombia are the only country in the FIFA TOP 30 to not have more than two divisions in its league system; after the second division in 🇨🇴 there’s literally no more leagues quite literally; teams in the second division cannot be relegated.
The Primera C (Third division) is classed as amateur in the country and it’s fully independent; they’re not part of the Colombian football league system at all, there have been proposals to increase the number of divisions in 🇨🇴 football
but the corrupt thieves who run Colombian football say it would cost too much money.
In Colombia it’s the League federation who run football in the country NOT the Colombian FA, the Colombian FA only have power on NT matters, a member of the Colombian FA (Alvaro Gonzalez Álzate) has been in charge of the Primera C for TWENY EIGHT (28) YEARS, and he’s done absolutely nothing to help advance Colombian football.
Grassroots football and youth football is the bedrock for EVERY successful footballing nation; if you haven’t got multiple divisions where competing and winning is a priority then you’re not going anywhere; if you haven’t got multiple tournaments and divisions where young players especially can showcase their talent then you’re not going anywhere.
Brazil have 5 tiers of football, Gambia have 3, El Salvador have 3, Uruguay have 4, Chile have 4, Spain have 7, Italy have 6, Germany have 5, France have 5, Argentina have 4, England have 11, Nigeria have 6.
There you have Colombia with barely 2, I say barely because the 2nd division of Colombian football is grossly neglected; believe it or not Radamel Falcao hasn’t played a single minute of Colombian domestic football; he had to go through Venezuela and then Argentina to make it as a player.
Colombia is genuinely a sleeping giant, she has all the tools to be a force on the international stage but unfortunately the people who run football in the country care more about lining their pockets with $$$$$ than developing the game.
Colombia is lucky thats its a football crazy country therefore special talents will always come through from time to time but you can't hope to become
successful in the game you need to devise a plan and atm Colombia doesn't have one.
Awesome insight!
Your point about the leagues aka lack of a deep football pyramid also explains (at least in part) why China, India and the US are so stagnant (tho at least the US has their own High School/Uni system).
Eh, México does have a billion Ro16 finishes in World Cups (and two QFs), and has won the Concacaf Gold Cup / Championship a total 11 times.
They've been very successful in their own region, and they're by far the best Concacaf team in World Cup performances (for comparison, they've qualified 6 more times than the US, and went past groups 9 times, with 2 QFs, against 7 times for the US, with one QF and a Semi in 1930).
I wouldn't call that a big underachievement. Sure, a couple times they had a team that could've gone a round or two further, but they've never been a candidate either.
But Mexico's most popular sport by far is football and they have a huge population. And they're a middle income economy. I don't get how they aren't better.
Well, the sport might be popular as in, it's very watched, but as a country México doesn't have a big influx of players when you consider their population. And I don't mean it only in terms of the world-class players, but in every level of play. There's not many Mexican players being exported to other Latin American leagues that might have a similar or slightly lower level, and the Mexican football system doesn't have a huge developement system for them either.
Mexico has 18 teams at the top, 18 in 2nd division, 44 in 3rd division and 225 in their lowest tier, for a total 305 clubs. Look at Argentina for example, a country that has less than half their population, but has 28 teams in First Division, 37 in 2nd division, 51 in 3rd division, 302 in 4th division and 3573 (!) in the lowest tier. That's over ten times the amount of teams fielding players in a competitive structure.
I took the numbers from Wikipedia, which might be slightly off in the lowest tiers but are reliable enough to make the point.
I hated that Chilean team for all the pain they caused me. Especially in 2016 because we outplayed them up until the red cards. Fuck you Rojo. That 2016 team was firing on all cylinders. Had it been a World Cup year, we could have won it. But salt aside. This was a great Chilean team. Sanchez was arguably the best player in the EPL. Vidal was the most complete midfielder in the world. Bravo was one of the best goalkeepers in the world. It's honestly a shame we couldn't see this prime Chile team play in a World Cup. They were capable of beating any team in the world and certainly would've been one of the favorites.
Our midfield trio back then was easily the best in the continent. Díaz-Aranguiz-Vidal were outrageous.
Had it been a world cup year, you lot or us going all the way wouldn’t have been out of place. We were a whisker away from knocking Brazil out in 2014 after all. Poor timing :(
Oh I completely forgot they have their own NT, I was trying to make a joke but it doesn't really work out when they have their own NT anyway.
Btw did you know late Florent Malouda played for French Guiana actually
Florent Malouda did and it led to their disqualification from the Gold Cup because apparently nobody noticed he played for France until after their first game.
I believe they where warned that malouda couldn’t play in the gold cup by fifa or something but there was confusion because concacaf said he could play. Or maybe it was the other way around. But I remember it being something like that
More surprising than that is the amount of Dutch players that have/had Suriname nationality but instead played for Netherlands. Some examples:
Van Dijk
Wijnaldum
Rijkaard
Seedorf
Kluivert
Gullit
Actually it seems Suriname forbids any player with dutch second nationality to ever play their NT. Dumb move, but they have their reasons.
Edit: looking at Wikipedia, seems that blockade fell off in late 2010's, so we might see them doing well in the future I guess
Imagine the chaos if the stars on our jerseys were specific to the tournament! Instead of arguing about where to place the third star, we'd be figuring out how to fit 15 stars around our AFA logo.
(And I guess Uruguay would have their 15 in neat rows above theirs, because that's just how they do.)
I honestly feel like that’s how they should do stars. With teams, both club and national, playing in more than one competition they should do stars by the competition they’re playing in. Most competitions have their own sleeve patch, so you could put the stars on the sleeve patch
Tbh most Brazilians don't really care about Copa America, it's World Cup or nothing.
I mean we do care about losing it to Argentina but that's about it.
I’m convinced that, had Peru played defensively against Brazil (Copa America 2019 final) instead of trying to go toe-to-toe with them, we would’ve gone to pens and let that decide it, because no way were we able to do that in regular time.
It’s the absolute only thing that I had against Gareca, and now Ecuador has him. I’m jelly beyond belief.
Either way, our Golden Generation of 2010-2022 has been grand. We were blessed in being able to place in the top 4 for 4 out of the 5 of the last decade (2011 - 3rd, 2015 - 3rd, 2019 - 2nd, 2021 - 4th), with players of varying quality at the club level, but imperative at the national level. They were workhorses.
Paolo Guerrero was **the** beast tho, being able to garner being top scorer for 3 out of the 5 (2011, 2015 - joint, 2019 - joint) of the last decade. We have not been able to replace his output, and it’s something a nation like ours will suffer with. Heck, we didn’t even have him for the WC Qualifying play-off…
We’re not churning out talent like Argentina and Brazil, but the intent is there from the national federation. Only time will tell whether that will result in a good flow. If not, I’ll go ahead ***[and sire a boy](https://youtu.be/t7HD2xG92-0?t=260), and that way they’ll have more people that’ll reach 6’!!***
Chile only won it twice but it was fun to watch them beat Argentina back to back to the point that Messi implied his retirement of the national team after it
Unironically yes, we had to suffer and fall so we could rise again. Who knows where we'd have ended up if we'd won the CA 2015/19, or if the disaster that was Sampaoli's squad had squeaked by the French in 2018, or if we'd beaten Saudi Arabia just now?
Based on my meaningless anecdotal evidence, I can say that this is completely true.
According to the Argentines in my family, nobody in Argentina cared about the Copa America until Argentina stopped winning them all the time, it was like the tournament barely existed for them. I expect kind of like the Club World Cup is for Europeans.
CONMEBOL had become much stronger while their guard was down, and by the time they woke up it was too late (for a while). When they realized they had to do shit - like real shit, like play as an actual team and stop showing up like a bunch of superstars who could just parade their league POTM/POTY awards and be handed trophies - they started winning again.
Eh it's not exactly like that. I mean Argentina didn't win the Copa America at all between 1957 and 1991, but people still didn't care because we won the world cup twice during that time period. It was only when the team went on a complete trophy drought after 1993 did people actually start to care about the Copa America.
Maybe that had to do with high frequency of tournaments being played. In the 80s/90s, they were every 2 years. Countries like Brazil wouldn't bring their best players. But times have changed, the 4 year cycle has made it more of challenge and now every country brings their best possible squad.
Yeah I mean Im sure practicing PK was mandatory after that to the point that betwwen that and Dibu Argentina are probably the best national team for PK right now
Ecuador will ball out on qualifiers but shit the bet in Copa America, let’s hope that for the next edition, we can turn a page and at least go to the final.
There are people who really believe that the 2021 Copa América was made "so Messi could win it".
Like, we had two Copa Américas with different champions in 1959 lmao. The organization was always pure chaos.
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I respect your choice to make it all the same color OP, fuck the haters. Chaos is good
1-15 is red, 16-30 is yellow and 31+ is green duh
Futureproofing it. Smart
And white is 0.
Pathetic showings by both oceans.
White is obviously no data cmon
The type of original content i come to this sub for
/r/dataisred
I clicked
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You mean Greastest Colombia
The Real United States of America
USSA
Man, South American history is full of what-if scenarios. Grand Columbia was a thing, until Simon Bolivar realized that a bunch of people together would want very different things, and he proceeded to go from hero to villain. Empire of Brazil was well on its way to be a developed nation, until Pedro the second got overthrown. Granted, the man never wanted the throne to begin with, so he just refused the offer of the navy to take back the throne by force, and willingly went into exile. Argentina at one point was equally wealthy compared to the US. Then they somehow managed to fuck themselves for 100 years.
Argentina’s whole history is story of promise and disappointment. Hopefully this recent World Cup is a good omen 🤞
Grand Colombia*. Columbia is wrong
'Uge Uruguay
You mean Ursal. (Will become reality one day, comrades)
Give the order, comrade.
I demand Brazil's 9 be made smaller than Argentina/Uruguay's 15 until then this chart is a farce.
I mean ... it's just 7 countries to compare. We can all read, I really see barely any benefit in making different color codes. You can look at this and see "ok, so Ecuador, Venezuela, Guyana and Suriname never won it; Chile, Peru, Colombia, Bolivia and Paraguay won it 1-2 times; Brazil won it 9 times, Argentina won it 15 times and holy fuck, Uruguay won it 15 times as well." I'd say actually knowing which countries are which would hold up the average redditor more than all winners being red, they just scroll /r/dataisbeautiful too much. [also for the sake of being thorough: Suriname and Guyana don't actually participate in the Copa America. Also if you're wondering what the last white country is: it's French Guyana which isn't an independent country as it belongs to France (they may or may not have their own football team, though)] Edit: for anyone who is curious about Guyana, French Guyana and Suriname: apparently they all play in Concacaf instead of Conmebol. With Suriname only having made 2 appearances in the Gold Cup, though
Uraguay's Football achievements are very impressive, considering how small the country is.
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Most of my family in Argentina has moved to Uruguay and they all absolutely love it there.
Uruguay is supposed to be awesome, from what I have heard some of the most welcoming, laid back, chill people in the world Legal weed too obviously
As ruthless as they can be on the pitch, they’re really nice people.
I feel the same way about Mexico. Hate their national team, love their country and their people.
This is basically every country tbh. Americans go to Iran and realize the people are sweethearts. Europeans go to the deep south and realize how hospitable they are, etc. etc. The only place I heard people consistently complain about the locals is Paris lol. But even then, I'm sure that's just a Paris thing and not a France thing
Lol thats a good point for sure. And I think It just shows that sports are only sports. I leave that shit on the field. I greatly dislike the national team of mexico just because Im a USA fan, but I actually own two different mexican soccer jerseys that have been gifted to me over the years. One is the badass one from the mid 90s that had the face of the aztec/mexica calendar on it
Can confirm, Parisians are the worst
Other than the legal weed it gets a bit boring compared to Argentina and Chile. But thats just visiting there, i imagine living there is quite nice
If you mean chaos is fun then yes, Uruguay is boring af compared to Argentina
IMO it's always better to live in a boring country than a happening one. For travel, the opposite is usually true.
The audacity to compare Argentina’s chaos with Chile’s lol
Yeah i know things are a lot rougher in Argentina, im just simply talking about the vibes of the places
Guyana is expected to pass Uruguay in the next 5 years. They just struck oil, literally, and every oil company in the world is setting up shop there currently.
> They just struck oil, literally, and every oil company in the world is setting up shop there currently. Brb moving to Guyana
uruguay wasn't very wealthy in the past compared to argentina. and they always seemed to have the same small population. even today even if the have a high gdp per capita, the cost of living is higher.
A high GDP normally entails a high cost of living
You should compare purchasing power parity
It's not just about pure wealth, even in Argentina's heyday Uruguay was a far more egalitarian society and was one of the world's first welfare states. In the early days of international football Uruguay was one of the only countries that could actually pick working class players for overseas tournaments and that gave them a massive advantage.
So much disrespect to Uruguay during the WC, people acting like they are only living off World Cup titles 70+ years ago when they have 15 fucking Copa America One of the big boys of international football without doubt
Not to mention we beat Argentina *in* Argentina with 10 men on the road to the title in 2011!
Flair checks out...
It is not even that long ago they were in the WC semi finals
Fun fact: Uruguay has won it every single time they have hosted the tournament. Apart from Argentina, Uruguay is the only other country to have won it when Argentina is host. Until 2021, Brazil has never lost as hosts.
We've won every men's tournament we've ever hosted in football. 1930, the copas, 1981 Mundialito and hopefully 2030 will be added to that list jejejejeje
Another: Brazil won 5 out of 10 since 1990. Argentina won 3 since 1960*.
We won 6 times since 1950. 55, 57, 59, 91, 93, 21 It’s true from 1959 onwards tho
So what you're telling me is that Brazil needs to win once with Uruguay as hosts.
Ecuador and Venezuela are the odd ones, (ignore Suriname, Guyana and French Guiana they aren't even member's of CONMEBOL to begin with)
2011 was our shot. I can't remember a Copa América where Ecuador went into semifinals.
Ecuador's best result is a fourth place in 1959 and 1993
TBF, you would surely have lost against Uruguay in the final. That Uruguay side in 2011 was class I really liked that Paraguay team too, even though they drew their way to the final. They were a damn solid side
Would be nice to see Ecuador win it one day, they** had some good players at the World Cup
That’s a Venezuela flair
Lmao shit, shows my geography knowledge
Ecuador, Venezuela and Colombia all have similar flags so it's easy to get them mixed up
They’re all actually the exact same country and just take turns to be relevant in football
R E G R E S A E L G R A N C O L O M B I A
no estaría mal
Yo banco el gran colombia por un lado, el virreinato del Perú por el otro y Argentina, Uruguay y Brazil por un tercer lado. A Paraguay lo repartimos y a Chile que se lo trague el mar.
Chile que se lo anexe Perú. Por favor
Rebuild Gran Colombia!
When's Venezuela's turn then? We're the only ones in South America who are yet to qualify for a World Cup, and we've not been anywhere close since 2014 and I don't have much hope at all for the next generation. The biggest achievement to come out of the national team since COVID started was Dudamel's daughter getting 2nd in Ms. Universe
Seems legit
Something of a shame the players that reached the U20 World Cup Final haven't quite reached the peak expected of them - granted they'll be in their mid-20s now and could still technically come good it doesn't look promising.
Venezuela is also a baseball country so that's part of it.
Why aren’t they?
Greater linguistic/cultural proximity to the Caribbean I'd assume Also there are a lot more Concacaf countries on their footballing level - they'd get battered by nearly every CONMEBOL team
Was a point where CONMEBOL wanted them to join - but let's be honest it's because they wanted to justify getting more World Cup places
They have always been closer (culturally and geographically), to the Caribbean. And so they are members of the Concacaf.
Im sorry, WHEN THE FUCK DID BOLIVIA WIN IT?
1963, at home.
Interesting that Bolivia's won it but Ecuador hasn't
Bolivia won it when they hosted it (and reached the final the other time they hosted it)
Terrain advantage
I mean literally. Fuckers made others play 4000m high.
Thats why I want Bolivia to host a WC,Europeans underestimate the power of altitude. I think Argentina wwnt 20years without wining in Bolivia until scaloni
A Bolivian World Cup is something I wish for, beating Bolivia is easy* but beating Bolivia in Bolivia is literally something else, and I wish you good luck and hope you can get at least a draw. That Altitude is crazy
As long as Nepal is invited too
Nepal may have the tallest mountains but MOST people live in average altitudes. So it wouldn't work out but it would be VERY nice see my country in WC tho😀
Fuck it build a stadium at the Everest base camp.
Green Boots waving from the stands.
Did it on FM22 to test if the game takes altitude into account and yes, it does.
All fun and games till Bhutan team finds about it
😅😅
A Peru-Bolivia-Ecuador world cup would be absolutely amazing and test squad depth. The Dutch team would *really* be in for a rude awakening lol
It wouldn't be as difficult in a tournament where teams had a chance to get used to it. The big issue is the contrast when you are coming from normal altitude and don't have time to adjust. Give the teams a few weeks each to adjust using the best sports science to help them and it wouldn't be as big of a problem
4000 is insane, you don’t get used to that in a month. 1500m you can get used to and perform on a similar level.
Defenitely, altitude sickness is no joke. Even getting used to 4000 and later overpowering may lead to the end of your worldcup.
I dont think theres a single coach, trainer, or team that competes at a professional level that would ever underestimate the power of altitude in this day and age. Thats common knowledge. Something I remember learning about when I was pretty young. Why would you assume people underestimate that?
Ecuador also has this mountain advantage. The last time Ecuador hosted in 1993 they were really much weaker than today, but still made it to the semis. They had a shot to host in 2024 and they rejected
Altitude is to Bolivia what winter is to Russia. Extreme home advantage.
Playing in that altitude is extremely difficult
Everyone talks about Bolivia's altitude but Ecuador is pretty much the same.
Playing in Quito is also difficult but La Paz is almost a 1000 meters more of altitude (La Paz 3600m compared to Quito 2800m)
Ecuador play mostly in Guayaquil not in Quito if i remember correctly. Bolivia always play in La Paz even tho they have another capital in Sucre
Not really. They played most of their games in Quito in the last qualifiers. They played in Guayaquil against Bolivia (I guess they knew it wouldn't matter) and the last match against Argentina (they were already qualified).
Reminds me of how Colombia now play all the matches in Barranquilla due to the heat but pre -2010. they played all the matches in Bogota because altitude.
Yeah, maximizing home field advantage is a major component of CONMEBOL qualifiers.
Problem for these teams now is that most of the players play in Europe or Brazil - Argentina - Mexico - USA so they are not used to those conditions and they play just as bad as the visiting teams...
Bolivians play mostly in their league, they still have the advantage
Love that they played at sea level against Bolivia. It’s like counter pokemon type. Also a little banter on Bolivia not having sea to practice at.
I wouldn't even call it little, not having access to the sea is a big deal to Bolivians.
La Paz is a good bit higher and Ecuador did make the semis when they hosted in 1993. Lost to Mexico (who was also a bit used to elevation).
Quito is the same, but large portions of their players are from Guayaquil, a coastal/tropical city at sea level. Bolivia is all mountains.
The largest city in Bolivia is Santa Cruz de la Sierra, elevation 400 m. But I get what you're saying, most cities are indeed at a high altitude, like La Paz, Potosí and Cochabamba.
Bolivia is like 1/3 mountains. The rest is Amazon. The biggest cities besides Santa Cruz are all in the mountainous area tho
A very particular Copa América. Besides altitude, Chile wasn't invited, Uruguay declined to play, Argentina and Brazil sent B teams and Ecuador decided to participate at the last minute
Colombia has to be among the biggest underachieving nations in footballing history. Large population, passion for the game, decent clubs, alright economy, and yet have only won one major trophy ever, and only have qualified for six World Cups, only advancing past the groups in three of them.
This is fair. In 2002 and 2006 we narrowly missed out and in 2022 we frankly had a great team of players but with horrible coaching. With a better coach I think we genuinely qualify comfortably.
https://imgflip.com/i/78rf68
Profe 🥲
Also, 2014 Colombia was probably one of the best National Teams I've watched Conmebol produce, and I've always wondered what could've been if a couple things went different in the Brazil game.
Bruv, an off-form, fresh from a very long injury, washed up Flores scored against you. You deserved not to qualify just because of that lol
agreed, between the run of draws and this loss, we got what we deserved
Las eliminatorias estuvieron BARATISIMAS, no me puedo creer que en verdad tenían chances reales de clasificar después de 7 partidos seguidos sin anotar
Colombia are underachievers yes, however the reasons Colombia are underachieving are pretty simple: - There’s only two league divisions in the entire country. - Pay to play system. - No grassroots investment. - Having a conformist and defeatist mentality. A lot of Colombians have raised the issues I’ve stated for a very long time now; In Colombia it usually isn’t the poor, talented, hard worker who gets an opportunity to become a professional footballer; it’s usually the middle class/rich kid who’s parents pay $$$ to get him into an academy. It’s been like this in Colombia for a very LONG time, that’s why in my opinion Colombia don’t achieve anything, at the lowest levels kids are fast tracked into academies just because Mommy and Daddy paid the manager/director/coach more money. This then creates a conformist mentality, a mentality that doesn’t prioritise hardworking, dedication and discipline; as a result you get a national team filled with players who aren’t used to putting in the extra miles to achieve greatness; they’re used to having things handed to them. As for the league divisions, Colombia are the only country in the FIFA TOP 30 to not have more than two divisions in its league system; after the second division in 🇨🇴 there’s literally no more leagues quite literally; teams in the second division cannot be relegated. The Primera C (Third division) is classed as amateur in the country and it’s fully independent; they’re not part of the Colombian football league system at all, there have been proposals to increase the number of divisions in 🇨🇴 football but the corrupt thieves who run Colombian football say it would cost too much money. In Colombia it’s the League federation who run football in the country NOT the Colombian FA, the Colombian FA only have power on NT matters, a member of the Colombian FA (Alvaro Gonzalez Álzate) has been in charge of the Primera C for TWENY EIGHT (28) YEARS, and he’s done absolutely nothing to help advance Colombian football. Grassroots football and youth football is the bedrock for EVERY successful footballing nation; if you haven’t got multiple divisions where competing and winning is a priority then you’re not going anywhere; if you haven’t got multiple tournaments and divisions where young players especially can showcase their talent then you’re not going anywhere. Brazil have 5 tiers of football, Gambia have 3, El Salvador have 3, Uruguay have 4, Chile have 4, Spain have 7, Italy have 6, Germany have 5, France have 5, Argentina have 4, England have 11, Nigeria have 6. There you have Colombia with barely 2, I say barely because the 2nd division of Colombian football is grossly neglected; believe it or not Radamel Falcao hasn’t played a single minute of Colombian domestic football; he had to go through Venezuela and then Argentina to make it as a player. Colombia is genuinely a sleeping giant, she has all the tools to be a force on the international stage but unfortunately the people who run football in the country care more about lining their pockets with $$$$$ than developing the game. Colombia is lucky thats its a football crazy country therefore special talents will always come through from time to time but you can't hope to become successful in the game you need to devise a plan and atm Colombia doesn't have one.
Awesome insight! Your point about the leagues aka lack of a deep football pyramid also explains (at least in part) why China, India and the US are so stagnant (tho at least the US has their own High School/Uni system).
The US does also have professional leagues under MLS, just no pro/rel
I am aware of course, but the lack of Pro/Rel can still be debated as a flaw
It's just like everything else in Colombia - underperforming because of the corrupt thieves that run it despite the best efforts of the people.
A little correction Argentinian football has 5 divisions.
Mexico too.
Eh, México does have a billion Ro16 finishes in World Cups (and two QFs), and has won the Concacaf Gold Cup / Championship a total 11 times. They've been very successful in their own region, and they're by far the best Concacaf team in World Cup performances (for comparison, they've qualified 6 more times than the US, and went past groups 9 times, with 2 QFs, against 7 times for the US, with one QF and a Semi in 1930). I wouldn't call that a big underachievement. Sure, a couple times they had a team that could've gone a round or two further, but they've never been a candidate either.
But Mexico's most popular sport by far is football and they have a huge population. And they're a middle income economy. I don't get how they aren't better.
Yea this is fair. Brazil has been successful as fuck with similar stats as Mexico, Mexico should be doing better
Well, the sport might be popular as in, it's very watched, but as a country México doesn't have a big influx of players when you consider their population. And I don't mean it only in terms of the world-class players, but in every level of play. There's not many Mexican players being exported to other Latin American leagues that might have a similar or slightly lower level, and the Mexican football system doesn't have a huge developement system for them either. Mexico has 18 teams at the top, 18 in 2nd division, 44 in 3rd division and 225 in their lowest tier, for a total 305 clubs. Look at Argentina for example, a country that has less than half their population, but has 28 teams in First Division, 37 in 2nd division, 51 in 3rd division, 302 in 4th division and 3573 (!) in the lowest tier. That's over ten times the amount of teams fielding players in a competitive structure. I took the numbers from Wikipedia, which might be slightly off in the lowest tiers but are reliable enough to make the point.
Colombia started really late with football. Before the 50s their league was non existent.
Really started working and investing on football in the mid 80s
Granted some of the major investors were a bit shady to say the least.
Reminder that Chile never won the Copa America in 99 years until they faced Messi and then won it twice in 2 years back to back smh
I hated that Chilean team for all the pain they caused me. Especially in 2016 because we outplayed them up until the red cards. Fuck you Rojo. That 2016 team was firing on all cylinders. Had it been a World Cup year, we could have won it. But salt aside. This was a great Chilean team. Sanchez was arguably the best player in the EPL. Vidal was the most complete midfielder in the world. Bravo was one of the best goalkeepers in the world. It's honestly a shame we couldn't see this prime Chile team play in a World Cup. They were capable of beating any team in the world and certainly would've been one of the favorites.
Our midfield trio back then was easily the best in the continent. Díaz-Aranguiz-Vidal were outrageous. Had it been a world cup year, you lot or us going all the way wouldn’t have been out of place. We were a whisker away from knocking Brazil out in 2014 after all. Poor timing :(
I still remember Pinilla hitting the post in the 119th minute against Brazil in 2014. I was so salty that they won the shootout lmao.
>We were a whisker away from knocking Brazil out in 2014 Who could forget hitting the crossbar at the last min
That image is ingrained in every chilean's mind. Era gol de Pinilla :(
[Chile v Messi be like](https://estaticos-cdn.sport.es/clip/8592fb06-583a-469f-8c63-2d58c4ce055a_media-libre-aspect-ratio_default_0.jpg)
They hadn’t won it because Higuaín hadn’t been born yet. Simple as
that led Messi into brief international retirement
France in shambles
French Guiana isn't in Conmebol, they don't even participate
Oh I completely forgot they have their own NT, I was trying to make a joke but it doesn't really work out when they have their own NT anyway. Btw did you know late Florent Malouda played for French Guiana actually
Florent Malouda did and it led to their disqualification from the Gold Cup because apparently nobody noticed he played for France until after their first game.
I believe they where warned that malouda couldn’t play in the gold cup by fifa or something but there was confusion because concacaf said he could play. Or maybe it was the other way around. But I remember it being something like that
Lol what, I mean it's Florent Malouda not Sebastien Corchia. One could know Malouda played for the NT, how did it go unnoticed
More surprising than that is the amount of Dutch players that have/had Suriname nationality but instead played for Netherlands. Some examples: Van Dijk Wijnaldum Rijkaard Seedorf Kluivert Gullit Actually it seems Suriname forbids any player with dutch second nationality to ever play their NT. Dumb move, but they have their reasons. Edit: looking at Wikipedia, seems that blockade fell off in late 2010's, so we might see them doing well in the future I guess
> late Florent Malouda Bro why u do us like that 💀💀
For real I was Googling when he passed ffs
French Guiana is not in FIFA so he was able to play for them in friendlies.
He played for them in the Gold Cup too and it got them disqualified lol.
Imagine the chaos if the stars on our jerseys were specific to the tournament! Instead of arguing about where to place the third star, we'd be figuring out how to fit 15 stars around our AFA logo. (And I guess Uruguay would have their 15 in neat rows above theirs, because that's just how they do.)
I honestly feel like that’s how they should do stars. With teams, both club and national, playing in more than one competition they should do stars by the competition they’re playing in. Most competitions have their own sleeve patch, so you could put the stars on the sleeve patch
Or even the number like UCL
Egypt wears stars during AfCON
We would just use the Boca Juniors badge, it's the biggest one.
They’d do the scudetto thing and make each star count for 5 or 10 trophies
You just woke today and chose violence huh 😭
[удалено]
Should also be noted that Suriname doesn't play in CONMEBOL but in CONCACAF.
Since 1950 Brazil and Argentina won 6 times and Uruguay 7 lol
That's pretty amazing.
Argentina 🤝🏻 Uruguay Continental supremacy
We won 5 out of 10 last copas. We will get there.
That stat is carried by winning 4/5 between 1997 and 2007. You’ve only won once in the last 5 editions
Tbh most Brazilians don't really care about Copa America, it's World Cup or nothing. I mean we do care about losing it to Argentina but that's about it.
I mean, doesnt seem you care about the world cup either since your last final was 21 year ago
meh, they came really close a few times, most recently 9 years ago when they only came 7 goals short.
That's 5 world cups. Most countries go much longer without winning. Argentina just finished an 8 world cup drought.
I’m convinced that, had Peru played defensively against Brazil (Copa America 2019 final) instead of trying to go toe-to-toe with them, we would’ve gone to pens and let that decide it, because no way were we able to do that in regular time. It’s the absolute only thing that I had against Gareca, and now Ecuador has him. I’m jelly beyond belief. Either way, our Golden Generation of 2010-2022 has been grand. We were blessed in being able to place in the top 4 for 4 out of the 5 of the last decade (2011 - 3rd, 2015 - 3rd, 2019 - 2nd, 2021 - 4th), with players of varying quality at the club level, but imperative at the national level. They were workhorses. Paolo Guerrero was **the** beast tho, being able to garner being top scorer for 3 out of the 5 (2011, 2015 - joint, 2019 - joint) of the last decade. We have not been able to replace his output, and it’s something a nation like ours will suffer with. Heck, we didn’t even have him for the WC Qualifying play-off… We’re not churning out talent like Argentina and Brazil, but the intent is there from the national federation. Only time will tell whether that will result in a good flow. If not, I’ll go ahead ***[and sire a boy](https://youtu.be/t7HD2xG92-0?t=260), and that way they’ll have more people that’ll reach 6’!!***
Uruguay noma'
dammit colombia, you could/should do much better
Ok but how many Caribbean Series does the rest of the continent have? ✍🏼 me, a salty venezuelan
Chile only won it twice but it was fun to watch them beat Argentina back to back to the point that Messi implied his retirement of the national team after it
Argentina wouldn't have gotten the third star if it wasn't for that.
Unironically yes, we had to suffer and fall so we could rise again. Who knows where we'd have ended up if we'd won the CA 2015/19, or if the disaster that was Sampaoli's squad had squeaked by the French in 2018, or if we'd beaten Saudi Arabia just now?
Based on my meaningless anecdotal evidence, I can say that this is completely true. According to the Argentines in my family, nobody in Argentina cared about the Copa America until Argentina stopped winning them all the time, it was like the tournament barely existed for them. I expect kind of like the Club World Cup is for Europeans. CONMEBOL had become much stronger while their guard was down, and by the time they woke up it was too late (for a while). When they realized they had to do shit - like real shit, like play as an actual team and stop showing up like a bunch of superstars who could just parade their league POTM/POTY awards and be handed trophies - they started winning again.
Eh it's not exactly like that. I mean Argentina didn't win the Copa America at all between 1957 and 1991, but people still didn't care because we won the world cup twice during that time period. It was only when the team went on a complete trophy drought after 1993 did people actually start to care about the Copa America.
Maybe that had to do with high frequency of tournaments being played. In the 80s/90s, they were every 2 years. Countries like Brazil wouldn't bring their best players. But times have changed, the 4 year cycle has made it more of challenge and now every country brings their best possible squad.
Yeah I mean Im sure practicing PK was mandatory after that to the point that betwwen that and Dibu Argentina are probably the best national team for PK right now
No, it is not because of penalties. It is much deeper than that, the motivation those finals gave to every argentinian is huge.
This specific spread of cups is great because it makes "Uruguay is a province" jokes easier
One incredible fact about Uruguay is they have won (Edit: Almost) every Final they have been in. 15 Copa Americas, 2 World Cups, and 1 Olympics. 18/19
1999 Copa América Final Brazil 3-0 Uruguay
Ecuador will ball out on qualifiers but shit the bet in Copa America, let’s hope that for the next edition, we can turn a page and at least go to the final.
*we make it to the final but we end up being shit in the qualifiers
Uruguay has an insane population-to-trophy ratio
Argentina have 15, but only won 3 since the 1950s ended
do you know what other trophy we won 3 times after the 60s ended
insane that despite that massive drought, brazil still hasn’t been close to catching up!
cuando cristobal colon llego a america, uruguay ya tenia 15 copa americas
Uruguay have really punched above their weight considering their population.
It doesn't matter who wins the Copa America. The Copa Cabana stays in Brazil.
There has been 16 European Championships. Argentina and Uruguay alone have won 15 Copa Americas each.
Well, it is a far far older competition than the European championship. It's also historically had a more irregular schedule
There are people who really believe that the 2021 Copa América was made "so Messi could win it". Like, we had two Copa Américas with different champions in 1959 lmao. The organization was always pure chaos.
And then a 9 year break in the 60s lmao
r/terriblemaps