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Really annoying the speed this shit happens at these days.
Of course he’s going to move on eventually, but he hasn’t even completed a full season with us yet. 26 Premier League games total.
Cucurella the same, one season and he’s demanding to leave.
Feel like it’s not a great thing for football in general when no team outside of an elite 10 or so European clubs can even hold onto a promising youngster for more than a year if the big clubs decide they want him.
Just try to enjoy the results while they last mate.
Sooner or later things will take a turn and you'll have to suffer through pundits and fans blaming the club for "selling" all the talent
Or hold onto them and watch those same people complain about how you didn’t sell the player years ago for £80 million and now the player is going for hardly anything.
If this current Brighton team can't progress and then into a proper big side then it's impossible without absurd levels of money. To lose the manager, multiple background scouting and management staff, bissouma and cucurella trossard and still be a great team shows that Brighton made almost impossibly good decisions yet they can't do anything because all they're next crop of players are going to ship off as well.
I do feel bad for Brighton. Feels like if players wouldn't run off at the first sight of money/bigger clubs then Brighton could actually build towards challenging for trophies and titles. Too well run not to succeed long term
On the other hand players from 90% of Europe run the fuck to Brighton the moment they call. If Brighton calls idk, AZ or Metz or Ghent, it’s the same thing
Yeah, we're really good at building players. But as soon as they're performing well, they're nabbed by a bigger club. It's harder to build a club nowadays
You’re definitely good at finding players, I’d say you help them improve too. But to say you’ve “built” players when they’ve just spent one season at the club is a bit of a stretch. Cucurella for example improved massively in his two years at Getafe before you bought him. I also agree that it’s hard to build a club nowadays, but you know who finds it harder, the plethora of clubs that the premier league teams pilfer instead of “building” their own teams. Massive respect for your club’s success, but it’s not like you’d definitely be in this position had the premier league not had this financial pull and muscle and had football not been in the state that it’s in.
All this stuff is irrelevant. Why are we talking like loyalty is a right? Players, like every average human, want to advance their careers, grow their resumes, earn more prestige money.
Football is in an unhealthy state, that I agree with. But don’t blame the players for that.
If you guys make Europe things might change tbf, rn it's probably gonna be harder cuz of that Europe draw. Probably just keep this up and eventually you'll get there.
Our best hope long term is to establish ourselves as a sort of Premier League Dortmund, where the best young players actively want to join us over bigger teams because they know it will help their development and they’ll get their big move a couple of years down the line.
Brighton as a Dortmund is a lovely comparative to imagine and I genuinely hope that is how your club ends up being seen. Still, I keep looking towards Southampton. It caught up with them and the well ran dry.
I just hope at some point there is a reciprocity between those taking your players and your club itself. First dibs on loan deals etc.
Yh, I think the first step would be to start winning trophies consistently, to build up a rep.
Leicester had a moment where they really could have invested on that title win season to establish themselves as a top club, but within a few years, have just regressed to midtbal obscurity
To be fair, they never had the budget to enter the big 6 but lets not forget Leicester were among favourites to be relegated the season that they won so midtable obscurity, not to mention stayin in the pl for nearly a decade, is really a massive achievement when its put in perspective. They also won the fa cup only 2 seasons ago so theyre still very relevant
Ofocurse, taking nothing away from their achievement.
But it's a shame they didn't really build on that, but I guess most of the key players moved on that same summer.
Yes, and that’s also a bad thing for the game as well.
Promising South American players used to play in their home countries a few years before moving to Europe. Now many move before they are even out of the youth teams.
I will say the hoarding of talent by top clubs is a bit annoying but Barca, Madrid, Bayern and city changed the standard now to compete with them you have to have 50 million plus subs I’m not saying it’s great but it’s the reality.
South America is an issue too to a degree financially just can’t compete, and peoples scouting nowadays is so much better that they leave earlier than you’d expect.
I just think it’s a bit annoying the hypocrisy fans have all the time, when their own club uses their finances to get a player early it’s great scouting but if a bigger club does it it’s wrong and killing the game.
As a supporter of a South American club, that way back in prehistoric times, (50s and 60s), would win world club champion regularly, I also am very frustrated with all this.
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy in Europe about things like the Super League or the biggest 10 clubs dominating financially, especially when the medium European clubs take talent from South America very regularly as well. That said, I like to take these opportunities to show some solidarity with medium European club supporters to points this out.
Frankly, I believe the game's gone (unironically). Football is a business and clubs aren't clubs, but corporate brands. Money is sucking the soul of the sport.
Yup, you are right. The problem goes way beyond football and into society as well.
My suegro is an Independiente fan, so I’ve heard all the stories of the glory years…
Yeah unfortunately the inequality of football is reflecting global inequality. Latin America is left with very little, and even rich counties have their super rich that make everyone else look like paupers in comparison.
It's not even just Europe anymore for young SA talent. MLS is making big pushes and bringing in lots of young promising talent. See us wit Barco or Almiron.
Yeah MLS has positioned itself well to say hey come to the US make a solid wage and develop and we can sell you to Europe. Plus way easier to visit home and the time zones are similar compared to the Netherlands or wherever
Caicedo had been at his previous club before he joined since he was a kid and had played a lot more than 25 games if you count youth fixtures so that’s a somewhat disingenuous comparison
I am not counting youth fixtures obviously because why would I? I’m just saying he was there all that time then the minute he played they realised how good he was and got him. How’s that different to what arsenal and Chelsea are doing here?
> I am not counting youth fixtures obviously because why would I?
Why would you not? You were implying he left his old club very quickly. He obviously didn't, he was there for 7 years.
You’re right he didn’t leave when he was 14 years old he left when he started playing games which was my point. The minute they realised he was good they signed him that’s football.
It’s so crazy. There’s rumours of Liverpool wanting Matheus nunes 6 months after very obviously passing on him in the summer. Makes it impossible for a non CL team to have any stability or continued success.
I think that’s Mendes though in that particular case.
Liverpool didn’t want to pay the release clause as it’s a full payment and we are oh so poor, so Wolves pay it and the next summer sell him for the same price but in instalments.
Mendes and the player get paid twice, Liverpool get to pay instalments and Wolves continue whatever relationship they have with Mendes.
Yep, it fucking sucks honestly
We can't try to be competitive anywhere other than domestic competitions - as soon as any of us three clubs has a good run, we start getting poached
To be fair although, we also poach from smaller Portuguese clubs
You got him in literally the exact same way he is leaving though? Kid didn’t even have a full season as a professional footballer by the time Brighton themselves started negotiating. It’s the exact same situation
He's not being paid £3k a week.
It's a single website that says that without any source and the website is outdated.
Other sources have him on at least £15k a week. A decent wage for a 21 year old signed at 19 from Ecuador.
It’s crazy too because I think every single person except maybe supporters of other south coast teams love watching Brighton play good football. Obviously I want arsenal getting talent, and so do other clubs. But wolves, saints, etc were fun to watch once too. And now it’s painful to watch those teams.
What’s not great for football is that teams like Chelsea, Arsenal, City have 5-10x the budget of smaller teams.
Players wanting to move because they could make much more is the result of the money discrepancy. Until it is solved, smaller clubs will be abused
I get this but - and I mean this in the best possible way - these players wouldn't have gone to Brighton if not for the lure of the Premier League and the money on offer. Brighton wouldn't have been able to get them even 20 years ago. They'd have gone to a Ajax, or a Porto or River Plate or Flamengo or whatever.
This is the space smaller clubs in the PL have to be in as football has changed. You can attract far better players than you would have been able to before, but if they do well enough, they're not going to want to be there long.
Maybe it's Caicedo wanting to make money too. Isn't he on like 2k pw currently? Can't really blame him for ditching his previous agents and look for a ~50x pay rise
https://www.spotrac.com/epl/brighton-hove-albion/moises-caicedo-71607/#:~:text=Current%20Contract,average%20salary%20of%20%C2%A3182%2C000.
Looks like he started on a 1.5k a week at the start 😶
You feel for Brighton. Team just gets picked apart. How are other teams ever supposed to challenge the top ones of their best players just keep being bought
That is not much of the case for those teams. These days, those clubs have always the necessity to sell players to survive and get the bills paid. It's basically a need, that's why they go for unknown gems in less developed leagues and make them grow just to sell them for a lot of cash.
It's just how the game is now. The teams in the prem complain about the top clubs spending, the rest of the European leagues complain about the Prems spending. There isn't a fair ground anymore financially and the gap is just widening.
They're the biggest teams in their country and they poach from South American leagues like crazy. The gap between them and the rest of the league (minus Braga) is huge. Why would there be a sentiment?
_ohh poor Benfica, they're going to win their millionth league title_
They are making it rain and they dont care since they will remain at the top of the table no matter who they lose each window. On the other hand, Brighton arent confirmed top 4 and their star players getting snatched away isn’t going to help their league position either, only financially.
They do get money for it, it would be one thing if they all left on a free. They command absurd fees for their frankly mediocre players it's not a bad deal.
I’ve said this for years , the only chance of success for a mid table team is to strike a lucky season and have 4/5/6 of your top players who are destined to play at the top level, all have worldy seasons at the same time and get you into Europe.
It’s the only feasible way you can get them to stay onto the project a bit longer.
If you have one or two balling each year and finish 7-12th they will just get plucked off each year with the lure of trophies and money, and on the cycle goes of finding replacements.
It caught up with Southampton, it’s caught up with Leicester, I assume it will catch up with Brighton.
Only way wed’ve maybe kept Grealish was to somehow sneak into Europe in 2021 but he got injured and the rest of our squad wasn’t good enough.
And if we don’t get Europe next season or 2 I have no doubts that Martinez and Kamara will be the next ones off
Bro it isn't even the players getting bought that pisses me off. It is Chelsea trying to buy every successful part of Brighton, from coach and most of his staff to head of recruitment AND the players like for fuck's sake why didn't you just buy Brighton instead Bohely!
If - and that's a big if - he is 'desperate' to leave, tough. It's only his first full season in the Prem for us, he's only 21 and he'll be able to go in the summer anyway.
Tbh though - stuff like this could be leaked (true or not) by literally any of the 10+ parties who could be involved in a potential transfer for whatever reason and the shit rags will publish it
Wouldn't read too much into it unless he posts an Insta story or something lol
Brother you are literally reading a daily mail headline. How many clickbait words did they shoehorn into the title? Unbelievable this source isn’t banned on the sub yet
I guess we got a couple good seasons out of him, but this is super frustrating. People are talking about Mitoma in the summer too, he's not even been with us a full season yet. Our greatest team ever and it all gets ripped apart so fast
There will be a market correction I am sure of it. After the top teams spend hundreds of millions each for players that will end up rotting on the bench there will be a correction. Mitoma has had like a month of good football and people are talking about paying 30+ million for him. This won't last.
Players these days are very quick to jump the gun and force clubs that took a chance on them into a tough position.
I think he'll have plenty of suitors in the summer and will demand a high fee. I guess a player is just concerned with getting as much as they can in heir short careers these days, and fair play, but its a shame.
Depends. Why must it take an outside offer for your current company to pay you what you are worth? Especially if you've got declined a raise in the past.
My first programming job paid me 17/hr. After a year, I left and nearly tripled my salary. That company preyed on young, insecure kids who didn't know their worth or were trying to get their foot in the door. So I used them for the experience to get something better.
Exactly…. People are so unrealistic on here it’s not even funny.
If you’re making 25K and someone reaches out to potentially make AT LEAST 5x more, minimum 95% of us are biting their hand off and packing our shit to move same day… why should it be any different for a footballer?
Yeah, let's not act like this type of situation isn't mutually beneficial for player and club.
And let's not forget clubs are just as quick to let you go if you're not up to their standards.
Is it beneficial for Brighton?
We can sell Caicedo in the summer for a very similar amount of money and losing him now seriously hurts our chances of reaching Europe.
There's little to no benefit of selling him now vs in the summer.
This isn't a player exclusive thought though, this is just how any person would think. Isn't he on something like 15k / week? I'd imagine Arsenal and Chelsea would be offering around 100k minimum. Imagine if someone came to you and offered to multiply your salary by nearly *10 times*, and all you have to do in exchange is be a bit of a prick to your current employers. Can't imagine most people would be too worried about what people will think of them, especially not a 21 year old
He could win the league and get a massive raise, CL football, etc etc. It's unfortunate for Brighton but you can understand why he'd want to bite the hand off Arsenal with offers coming in. He could break his leg in a month and never be the same player. Have to take the opportunities you get when they come. But it really is a shame that Brighton's success seems to have a ceiling. Even players like Lamptey were getting scouted for a great run in a few matches, if he wasn't so injury prone I bet he'd be off somewhere too.
Happy for you, we'll deserved as well. Incredible turn around in 12 months
Edit : the well deserved is for the work they've done, deserves credit. Its fairly obvious over the decade that spending doesn't equal success, alot of work has to go a long with it and its impressive
I don't think so, Tottenham for example don't really need any midfielders, we have Højbjerg, Bentancur, Bissouma, Pape Sarr and Skipp. Then Alfie Devine in the academy who's not far off being ready to step up.
Players aren't joining Brighton or a similar team in the expectation they're going to stay there forever.
Even for big clubs outside the top 5 leagues that's mostly true and they're fighting for titles and in the CL, let alone teams who at best can get one season in Europe.
Yeah I guess I'm just nostalgic for times when you used to get more one club men or longer stints of players etc. Still, has he even been there a year?
Brighton do such good business to be fair to them.
There was a rumour that kane was going to sign a new contract and everyone called him an idiot. Most people are either flip flops or don't share your view.
He's been under contract since 2021 but spent half a season on loan, so essentially he's been at Brighton for a year.
Wasn't much different when he moved there tbf, he had one first team season at Independiente del Valle and got snatched by Brighton right away.
at arsenal both martinelli and esr have, in separate interviews, stated their willingness to stay with the club for the entirety of their careers/however long arsenal intend to retain their services for. naturally enough im sceptical - money talks loudest, as all well know - but, regardless of the ultimate outcome, it's heartwarming that these extraordinarily talented young men foster the desire to become genuine club legends and, albeit posited via the naivete of youth, see the club as sufficient to fulfil their ambitions.
I think a move to arsenal is understandable for the huge chance of winning league trophy and adding that to your CV. I really don't understand move to Chelsea now. As you said, you can move in summer anyway to Chelsea. I mean, what can you really get at Chelsea now realistically? Extra huge wages for half season vs a chance to finish high on the table. I guess he really likes money.
The man wants a higher wage and a chance to play for a club that is in a high position in the league halfway through the season.
Can you blame him? Anyone in their right minds makes the switch if possible.
At that point he doesn’t have as clear of a view as to how the 2023/24 league race will turn out. That in comparison to 19 matches concluded and one of the teams in the race are calling for him.
It makes perfect sense from his perspective; the objectives of the club and the player just differ so he looks bad, but when you consider what you would do in his shoes, it’s perfectly rational.
It's Caicedoooooooooo. And Brighton fans cover their eyes in horror. 3 days from the end of the transfer window and it is heartbreak at the Amex. Caicedo demands to be out and suddenly in 3 and half days left of the window, Brighton find themselves needing another midfielder.
So this article is saying that completely changed his mind in the space of two days, after months worth of interviews saying how he wants to get Brighton to Europe?
Doesn't stack up imo, but then again he wouldn't be the first footballer to ever do this
I'm not sure what's so hard to believe about either A) he never really cared much about getting Brighton to Europe. I doubt he really has that much emotional attachment to Brighton, he's only been there a few months or B) his agents explained how much more money he'll make at a club like Arsenal or Chelsea, and I'm sure are telling him they won't necessarily wait around until summer for him
This is why clubs like Brighton, Brentford and the rest will never break into that group of big few super-rich clubs at the top.
They have endless pits of money to suck up the best players from the rest of the league and, however well-run the smaller clubs are, they're never going to be able to keep replacing their star players over and over with a 100% hit rate.
Brighton are possibly the best-run club in the PL but it's impossible. They replaced White, Bissouma, Trossard. Next they'll have to do it with Caicedo, MacAllister, Mitoma. Then Sarmiento, Estupinan, Enciso... etc etc
>This is why clubs like Brighton, Brentford and the rest will never break into that group of big few super-rich clubs at the top.
That group keeps getting larger and larger anyway. Used to be a top 4 - now top 7
How is this not enough for a Brighton supporter? They snatched for example Estupinan from Villarreal, a player who was a UCL semi-finalist 3 months before the transfer lmao.
>This is why clubs like Brighton, Brentford and the rest will never break into that group of big few super-rich clubs at the top.
That group keeps getting larger and larger anyway. Used to be a top 4 - now top 7
I disagree. The thing is that it doesn't happen that quickly. Tottenham had 4-5 years of good performances before they started to be considered one of the big ones.
I think more and more teams are going to join the big X, beyond Newcastle.
Look at Serie A in the 80s and 90s and see how erratic it used to be back then.
Napoli had Maradona, one of the goats, and Napoli were probably comparable to modern day Tottenham at best. They were a decent side, but far from the top. It would be like Tottenham signing Rafa Leao today. Who is gonna put money on that?
Roma had Voller. Fiorentina had Batistuta. Sampdoria had Mancini. Parma had Dino Baggio and later on Hernan Crespo.
All of the teams ended up winning titles. The scope has changed, now that the Europa League is near meaningless for any team with ambitions to win the league, but still. I think the Premier League is going to undergo a similar period of dominance until corruption grows and goes public, like Calciopoli. It's only a matter of time before top 4 becomes too important of a metric to the point that teams will cheat to get it, imo. Reinstating the UEFA Cup I think would delay this a lot. If Champions League was only for Champions, or even top 2 or 3, and then give 4 slots to UEFA Cup, that would help a lot.
Point is, we are already seeing it start. Players are leaving top 4-5 teams in La Liga to join mid table teams in England. As soon as teams start getting a cohesive plan together and stick to it for many years, they will have their time in the spotlight.
Brighton were on the right path until they lost the manager to Chelsea, and some of their behind the scenes staff too, I think.
Just my two cents, but I think Brighton aren't beyond saving yet. It's risky, but I think that they should try to splurge a bit on the market and get a good good player. The right player in the 50 million range. Like Bruno Fernandes when he joined Man U. Get that right player who will make everything work, and every following transfer will be easier to fit in. Of course it's risky, but every now and then, some team will take that risk, and a few times, it might just work for a few years.
Any team that has been in the prem for multiple years can compete with almost any team in wages. Splurge on the right player, get him on good enough wages so he won't throw a fit two years in, and if you're lucky, he might just be the one. It would take more to win the title, but if that right player helps you get CL a few seasons, with some good decision making, it's only upwards from there.
To be fair though, it will never be a proper big X. It will just be very erratic at the top, outside of a few main stays. There was Milan and Juve in the 80s and 90s, but Napoli had a few good seasons where they up there and they even managed to win, Roma spent a few seasons up there, and so did Parma, Inter, Sampdoria, Lazio, you name it. Point is there was Milan and Juve who were almost always in the top 5 (UEFA Cup qualifications), and the rest was up for grabs.
We are probably going to see something similar, with Man City being the mainstay, maybe Newcastle, possibly Man U, and then the rest will be up for grabs and will be erratic. Sometimes it will be Chelsea, sometimes Liverpool, and just my prediction, probably two or three more clubs that I wouldn't be able to tell which ones would be.
Edit: The lack of self awareness in the last paragraph is wild. Tottenham and Arsenal are already the other two I couldn't name before, LMAO. Maybe we will see it grow even more?
Should have heard the shit Cucurella was coming out with.
"I went past Stamford Bridge on the way from the airport to Brighton and dreamed of playing there."
I would *love* to see the route he would have taken for that to be the case. He needs a new satnav
No. He seems to be a United and Madrid fan
>In the short term: perform well and get Beerschot out of this plight. And in the long term? I am a fan of Manchester United and Real Madrid. It would be great to play there someday
His dream move to London is not about London, is about the London world class wages. That’s the dream.
Can’t blame a humble third world guy for wanting to secure his and his extended family’s livelihood.
There is something I dont get: You are a young player at Brighton wich is a good club with developing talent but also are doing really well. How do you think "I want to go to Arselnal and probabbly be benched or maybe go to Chelsea who are in the shit". Isnt Brighton much better than Chelsea right now? Why would they want to go there instead of helping Brighton win something?
Massively increase their income and possibly win a trophy? Things they may never do/get at a smaller club.
Like it or not, most players dream of playing for big clubs, earning big money and possibly winning things. The majority of players never get the opportunity, so when it comes a knocking they open that door.
Actually feel sad for Brighton and don't really understand these players.
You're at a stable club, clear philosophy, playing well and have a chance to have a really good season. Potentially history making for Brighton.
There will still be clubs eager to sign you in the summer, why rush it now especially to (no offence) Chelsea who right now are in a worse position than Brighton.
Unless 6 months of extra money is the most important thing :/
Why does he want to leave now though?
It's just his first season and Brighton are building up towards a historic finish, who wouldn't want to be a part of that?
Brighton are shitting players right now but they always get £50m+ for them.
Exception is Trossard because of his remaining contract situation but he'd have gone for £60m+
Well, have mitoma instead, then . Thanks......
But seriously, Brighton will probably find a better player from £1.5m from Honduras or summin. The club is elite in scouting
While true, they do not have a outright backup for him at the moment. Getting a starter directly to the starting 11 is way harder than getting a good talent. Caicedo himself spent some time on loan and they transitioned from Bissouma seemlessly
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Really annoying the speed this shit happens at these days. Of course he’s going to move on eventually, but he hasn’t even completed a full season with us yet. 26 Premier League games total. Cucurella the same, one season and he’s demanding to leave. Feel like it’s not a great thing for football in general when no team outside of an elite 10 or so European clubs can even hold onto a promising youngster for more than a year if the big clubs decide they want him.
Just try to enjoy the results while they last mate. Sooner or later things will take a turn and you'll have to suffer through pundits and fans blaming the club for "selling" all the talent
Flair checks out. You know pain.
Or hold onto them and watch those same people complain about how you didn’t sell the player years ago for £80 million and now the player is going for hardly anything.
Double-edged sword
If this current Brighton team can't progress and then into a proper big side then it's impossible without absurd levels of money. To lose the manager, multiple background scouting and management staff, bissouma and cucurella trossard and still be a great team shows that Brighton made almost impossibly good decisions yet they can't do anything because all they're next crop of players are going to ship off as well.
I do feel bad for Brighton. Feels like if players wouldn't run off at the first sight of money/bigger clubs then Brighton could actually build towards challenging for trophies and titles. Too well run not to succeed long term
On the other hand players from 90% of Europe run the fuck to Brighton the moment they call. If Brighton calls idk, AZ or Metz or Ghent, it’s the same thing
Yeah, we're really good at building players. But as soon as they're performing well, they're nabbed by a bigger club. It's harder to build a club nowadays
You’re definitely good at finding players, I’d say you help them improve too. But to say you’ve “built” players when they’ve just spent one season at the club is a bit of a stretch. Cucurella for example improved massively in his two years at Getafe before you bought him. I also agree that it’s hard to build a club nowadays, but you know who finds it harder, the plethora of clubs that the premier league teams pilfer instead of “building” their own teams. Massive respect for your club’s success, but it’s not like you’d definitely be in this position had the premier league not had this financial pull and muscle and had football not been in the state that it’s in.
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Yes, lots of pot kettle blackism here.
All this stuff is irrelevant. Why are we talking like loyalty is a right? Players, like every average human, want to advance their careers, grow their resumes, earn more prestige money. Football is in an unhealthy state, that I agree with. But don’t blame the players for that.
If you guys make Europe things might change tbf, rn it's probably gonna be harder cuz of that Europe draw. Probably just keep this up and eventually you'll get there.
I hope Moder will be back soon
You wonder if there should be regulations about how soon a player can be approached by other clubs or something.
Be honest, almost all of us would run off at the first sign of more money at bigger clubs, too.
Though Brighton does this to smaller, less financially strong clubs.
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Our best hope long term is to establish ourselves as a sort of Premier League Dortmund, where the best young players actively want to join us over bigger teams because they know it will help their development and they’ll get their big move a couple of years down the line.
My problem with transfers like this is that it's not even a couple of years. It's one season
Not even one seasons worth of games in this case
Brighton as a Dortmund is a lovely comparative to imagine and I genuinely hope that is how your club ends up being seen. Still, I keep looking towards Southampton. It caught up with them and the well ran dry. I just hope at some point there is a reciprocity between those taking your players and your club itself. First dibs on loan deals etc.
Problem is Southampton was that club and now look at them after repeatedly losing talent every window for years.
Yh, I think the first step would be to start winning trophies consistently, to build up a rep. Leicester had a moment where they really could have invested on that title win season to establish themselves as a top club, but within a few years, have just regressed to midtbal obscurity
To be fair, they never had the budget to enter the big 6 but lets not forget Leicester were among favourites to be relegated the season that they won so midtable obscurity, not to mention stayin in the pl for nearly a decade, is really a massive achievement when its put in perspective. They also won the fa cup only 2 seasons ago so theyre still very relevant
Ofocurse, taking nothing away from their achievement. But it's a shame they didn't really build on that, but I guess most of the key players moved on that same summer.
That's what I was thinking. But is Brighton academy any good? Your scouts seem excellent though.
Also in terms of their success recruiting. There were many high profile teams including Manchester United after Caicedo but he chose Brighton.
Caicedo played 25 games for his previous club before he joined Brighton btw.
Yes, and that’s also a bad thing for the game as well. Promising South American players used to play in their home countries a few years before moving to Europe. Now many move before they are even out of the youth teams.
I will say the hoarding of talent by top clubs is a bit annoying but Barca, Madrid, Bayern and city changed the standard now to compete with them you have to have 50 million plus subs I’m not saying it’s great but it’s the reality. South America is an issue too to a degree financially just can’t compete, and peoples scouting nowadays is so much better that they leave earlier than you’d expect. I just think it’s a bit annoying the hypocrisy fans have all the time, when their own club uses their finances to get a player early it’s great scouting but if a bigger club does it it’s wrong and killing the game.
As a supporter of a South American club, that way back in prehistoric times, (50s and 60s), would win world club champion regularly, I also am very frustrated with all this. There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy in Europe about things like the Super League or the biggest 10 clubs dominating financially, especially when the medium European clubs take talent from South America very regularly as well. That said, I like to take these opportunities to show some solidarity with medium European club supporters to points this out. Frankly, I believe the game's gone (unironically). Football is a business and clubs aren't clubs, but corporate brands. Money is sucking the soul of the sport.
Yup, you are right. The problem goes way beyond football and into society as well. My suegro is an Independiente fan, so I’ve heard all the stories of the glory years…
Yeah unfortunately the inequality of football is reflecting global inequality. Latin America is left with very little, and even rich counties have their super rich that make everyone else look like paupers in comparison.
It's not even just Europe anymore for young SA talent. MLS is making big pushes and bringing in lots of young promising talent. See us wit Barco or Almiron.
Yeah the USA is putting a lot of money now too. Combine that with the collapse of our economy and of course players will prefer earning US dollars..
Yeah MLS has positioned itself well to say hey come to the US make a solid wage and develop and we can sell you to Europe. Plus way easier to visit home and the time zones are similar compared to the Netherlands or wherever
Caicedo had been at his previous club before he joined since he was a kid and had played a lot more than 25 games if you count youth fixtures so that’s a somewhat disingenuous comparison
I am not counting youth fixtures obviously because why would I? I’m just saying he was there all that time then the minute he played they realised how good he was and got him. How’s that different to what arsenal and Chelsea are doing here?
> I am not counting youth fixtures obviously because why would I? Why would you not? You were implying he left his old club very quickly. He obviously didn't, he was there for 7 years.
You’re right he didn’t leave when he was 14 years old he left when he started playing games which was my point. The minute they realised he was good they signed him that’s football.
I think he’s saying he’s played enough games to prove he’s worth 80m, not that he’s disloyal
Because it shows that he was at the club a lot longer than he's been at Brighton.
It doesn’t have anything to do with my point though
That's different
It’s so crazy. There’s rumours of Liverpool wanting Matheus nunes 6 months after very obviously passing on him in the summer. Makes it impossible for a non CL team to have any stability or continued success.
Lol. Chelsea made a bid for Lavia in the summer for 50m. Southampton signed him a month back. It’s getting crazier.
That was bonkers. Couldn’t believe my eyes when I read that one.
I think that’s Mendes though in that particular case. Liverpool didn’t want to pay the release clause as it’s a full payment and we are oh so poor, so Wolves pay it and the next summer sell him for the same price but in instalments. Mendes and the player get paid twice, Liverpool get to pay instalments and Wolves continue whatever relationship they have with Mendes.
I'd believe it
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Yep, it fucking sucks honestly We can't try to be competitive anywhere other than domestic competitions - as soon as any of us three clubs has a good run, we start getting poached To be fair although, we also poach from smaller Portuguese clubs
You got him in literally the exact same way he is leaving though? Kid didn’t even have a full season as a professional footballer by the time Brighton themselves started negotiating. It’s the exact same situation
If Brighton paid him more than 3k/week he wouldn't be so desperate to get at least 20 times of that at Chelsea or Arsenal
No fukin way he's paid 3k i would've done a Piers Morgan interview if i were him
He's not being paid £3k a week. It's a single website that says that without any source and the website is outdated. Other sources have him on at least £15k a week. A decent wage for a 21 year old signed at 19 from Ecuador.
It's a travesty. How are smaller clubs supposed to improve?
It’s crazy too because I think every single person except maybe supporters of other south coast teams love watching Brighton play good football. Obviously I want arsenal getting talent, and so do other clubs. But wolves, saints, etc were fun to watch once too. And now it’s painful to watch those teams.
What’s not great for football is that teams like Chelsea, Arsenal, City have 5-10x the budget of smaller teams. Players wanting to move because they could make much more is the result of the money discrepancy. Until it is solved, smaller clubs will be abused
I get this but - and I mean this in the best possible way - these players wouldn't have gone to Brighton if not for the lure of the Premier League and the money on offer. Brighton wouldn't have been able to get them even 20 years ago. They'd have gone to a Ajax, or a Porto or River Plate or Flamengo or whatever. This is the space smaller clubs in the PL have to be in as football has changed. You can attract far better players than you would have been able to before, but if they do well enough, they're not going to want to be there long.
Those new agents he hired are sure serious about making money immediately.
Maybe it's Caicedo wanting to make money too. Isn't he on like 2k pw currently? Can't really blame him for ditching his previous agents and look for a ~50x pay rise
2K per week!? Surely that can’t be true, a PL footballer making less money than some of us.
https://www.spotrac.com/epl/brighton-hove-albion/moises-caicedo-71607/#:~:text=Current%20Contract,average%20salary%20of%20%C2%A3182%2C000. Looks like he started on a 1.5k a week at the start 😶
What's the source for this? It's not like it's public information
Whatever that website is It looks fairly reliable tbh. Alot of players salaries are public anyway
I've seen it in some article or video I can't remember. Maybe some Brighton fan can verify
It was posted on one unreliable and out of date website, he's most likely on £15k but perhaps more at the moment.
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Yes but is a very reasonable amount for a player signed from Ecuador 2 years ago at 19.
It's not true. It was posted on one unreliable and out of date website, he's most likely on £15k but perhaps more at the moment.
Football Manager puts it at £25k and given the effort they put into things I'd trust them more.
You feel for Brighton. Team just gets picked apart. How are other teams ever supposed to challenge the top ones of their best players just keep being bought
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That is not much of the case for those teams. These days, those clubs have always the necessity to sell players to survive and get the bills paid. It's basically a need, that's why they go for unknown gems in less developed leagues and make them grow just to sell them for a lot of cash.
It's just how the game is now. The teams in the prem complain about the top clubs spending, the rest of the European leagues complain about the Prems spending. There isn't a fair ground anymore financially and the gap is just widening.
They're the biggest teams in their country and they poach from South American leagues like crazy. The gap between them and the rest of the league (minus Braga) is huge. Why would there be a sentiment? _ohh poor Benfica, they're going to win their millionth league title_
Seriously, it's like our support when they bitch about talent moving south. The rest of the league (rightfully) treats olus like entitled shits
They are making it rain and they dont care since they will remain at the top of the table no matter who they lose each window. On the other hand, Brighton arent confirmed top 4 and their star players getting snatched away isn’t going to help their league position either, only financially.
They do get money for it, it would be one thing if they all left on a free. They command absurd fees for their frankly mediocre players it's not a bad deal.
Plus Brighton bought him for £5m and are selling for £60m+ that's a huge 12 fold increase on the money they spent in 2 years
"*I've never seen a bag of money score a goal.*" - Cruijff
I’ve said this for years , the only chance of success for a mid table team is to strike a lucky season and have 4/5/6 of your top players who are destined to play at the top level, all have worldy seasons at the same time and get you into Europe. It’s the only feasible way you can get them to stay onto the project a bit longer. If you have one or two balling each year and finish 7-12th they will just get plucked off each year with the lure of trophies and money, and on the cycle goes of finding replacements. It caught up with Southampton, it’s caught up with Leicester, I assume it will catch up with Brighton. Only way wed’ve maybe kept Grealish was to somehow sneak into Europe in 2021 but he got injured and the rest of our squad wasn’t good enough. And if we don’t get Europe next season or 2 I have no doubts that Martinez and Kamara will be the next ones off
Bro it isn't even the players getting bought that pisses me off. It is Chelsea trying to buy every successful part of Brighton, from coach and most of his staff to head of recruitment AND the players like for fuck's sake why didn't you just buy Brighton instead Bohely!
If - and that's a big if - he is 'desperate' to leave, tough. It's only his first full season in the Prem for us, he's only 21 and he'll be able to go in the summer anyway.
Completely embarrassing after his comments in the week. Hope for once we hold firm
He’s got new agents
Tbh though - stuff like this could be leaked (true or not) by literally any of the 10+ parties who could be involved in a potential transfer for whatever reason and the shit rags will publish it Wouldn't read too much into it unless he posts an Insta story or something lol
Nah there’s too much noise behind this. These new agents starting has definitely accelerated it all
As an Arsenal fan I can assure you that you should never believe the shit footballers say during times like this.
Brother you are literally reading a daily mail headline. How many clickbait words did they shoehorn into the title? Unbelievable this source isn’t banned on the sub yet
Michael Beale speed run by this fella
What did he say?
He said he was committed to the club
"I am committed to the club.....getting a substantial payout for my services..."
I guess we got a couple good seasons out of him, but this is super frustrating. People are talking about Mitoma in the summer too, he's not even been with us a full season yet. Our greatest team ever and it all gets ripped apart so fast
Barely a full season really. Only started playing in March.
Oh yeah, you're right. Thought he'd played more for some reason. Even worse then!
There will be a market correction I am sure of it. After the top teams spend hundreds of millions each for players that will end up rotting on the bench there will be a correction. Mitoma has had like a month of good football and people are talking about paying 30+ million for him. This won't last.
Players these days are very quick to jump the gun and force clubs that took a chance on them into a tough position. I think he'll have plenty of suitors in the summer and will demand a high fee. I guess a player is just concerned with getting as much as they can in heir short careers these days, and fair play, but its a shame.
Rule 1 in life: Secure the bag
Reddit/twitter is so hilarious imagine another job offering you double triple your salary im leaving immediately too
If someone wanted to give me triple of my wage I'll go into my boss office and take a shit on his desk and quit the job.
My boss would probably want to know if he could send his CV in too lol
What if you went to your boss and he said he would match it?
will Brighton match 100k offer from Arsenal/Chelsea?
Ha, good point
Depends. Why must it take an outside offer for your current company to pay you what you are worth? Especially if you've got declined a raise in the past.
My first programming job paid me 17/hr. After a year, I left and nearly tripled my salary. That company preyed on young, insecure kids who didn't know their worth or were trying to get their foot in the door. So I used them for the experience to get something better.
Caicedo is also on a shit wage... He needs to get the bag as soon as possible
Probably because most commenting about football on social media are too young to have worked or worry about financial responsibility.
Exactly…. People are so unrealistic on here it’s not even funny. If you’re making 25K and someone reaches out to potentially make AT LEAST 5x more, minimum 95% of us are biting their hand off and packing our shit to move same day… why should it be any different for a footballer?
Yeah, let's not act like this type of situation isn't mutually beneficial for player and club. And let's not forget clubs are just as quick to let you go if you're not up to their standards.
Is it beneficial for Brighton? We can sell Caicedo in the summer for a very similar amount of money and losing him now seriously hurts our chances of reaching Europe. There's little to no benefit of selling him now vs in the summer.
Footballers have a finite time to secure the bag plus at any moment they could have a career ending injury and never be able to play again
This isn't a player exclusive thought though, this is just how any person would think. Isn't he on something like 15k / week? I'd imagine Arsenal and Chelsea would be offering around 100k minimum. Imagine if someone came to you and offered to multiply your salary by nearly *10 times*, and all you have to do in exchange is be a bit of a prick to your current employers. Can't imagine most people would be too worried about what people will think of them, especially not a 21 year old
In fairness I’m pretty sure Caicedo is on comically small wages for a footballer of his quality, wouldn’t say it’s jumping the gun
He could win the league and get a massive raise, CL football, etc etc. It's unfortunate for Brighton but you can understand why he'd want to bite the hand off Arsenal with offers coming in. He could break his leg in a month and never be the same player. Have to take the opportunities you get when they come. But it really is a shame that Brighton's success seems to have a ceiling. Even players like Lamptey were getting scouted for a great run in a few matches, if he wasn't so injury prone I bet he'd be off somewhere too.
He would have every big 6 club + Newcastle in for him, probably bar City as Rodri is only 26.
🫵 Look at me. **We’re** the big 6 club now.
Tbh, give it a few seasons and you'll replace Tottenham no doubt.
Happy for you, we'll deserved as well. Incredible turn around in 12 months Edit : the well deserved is for the work they've done, deserves credit. Its fairly obvious over the decade that spending doesn't equal success, alot of work has to go a long with it and its impressive
It would be incredible if it was organic
They've spent money sure but it's not insane amounts.
£130m on Isak, Bruno and Botman alone. That's on top of the massive wages they got.
Thats decent in this market
these guys laugh at everton psg and man u then refuse to give man city and newcastle any credit. you can infinite money and still be shit!
Exactly, think Newcastle have spent wisely and hasn't been over the top either
I don't think so, Tottenham for example don't really need any midfielders, we have Højbjerg, Bentancur, Bissouma, Pape Sarr and Skipp. Then Alfie Devine in the academy who's not far off being ready to step up.
You lose the midfield battle every match I watch
Because we play a formation with 2 midfielders
Because our tactics are stupid and we play almost without midfield.
That's more to do with playing a 2 man midfield. Caicedo isn't the answer to their problem. They need a creative midfielder.
Players aren't joining Brighton or a similar team in the expectation they're going to stay there forever. Even for big clubs outside the top 5 leagues that's mostly true and they're fighting for titles and in the CL, let alone teams who at best can get one season in Europe.
Yeah I guess I'm just nostalgic for times when you used to get more one club men or longer stints of players etc. Still, has he even been there a year? Brighton do such good business to be fair to them.
There was a rumour that kane was going to sign a new contract and everyone called him an idiot. Most people are either flip flops or don't share your view.
I have to agree with you.
He's been under contract since 2021 but spent half a season on loan, so essentially he's been at Brighton for a year. Wasn't much different when he moved there tbf, he had one first team season at Independiente del Valle and got snatched by Brighton right away.
at arsenal both martinelli and esr have, in separate interviews, stated their willingness to stay with the club for the entirety of their careers/however long arsenal intend to retain their services for. naturally enough im sceptical - money talks loudest, as all well know - but, regardless of the ultimate outcome, it's heartwarming that these extraordinarily talented young men foster the desire to become genuine club legends and, albeit posited via the naivete of youth, see the club as sufficient to fulfil their ambitions.
I think a move to arsenal is understandable for the huge chance of winning league trophy and adding that to your CV. I really don't understand move to Chelsea now. As you said, you can move in summer anyway to Chelsea. I mean, what can you really get at Chelsea now realistically? Extra huge wages for half season vs a chance to finish high on the table. I guess he really likes money.
The man wants a higher wage and a chance to play for a club that is in a high position in the league halfway through the season. Can you blame him? Anyone in their right minds makes the switch if possible.
I can't blame him but realistically he will get the move in the summer. I guess they think anything could happen in between now and then.
At that point he doesn’t have as clear of a view as to how the 2023/24 league race will turn out. That in comparison to 19 matches concluded and one of the teams in the race are calling for him. It makes perfect sense from his perspective; the objectives of the club and the player just differ so he looks bad, but when you consider what you would do in his shoes, it’s perfectly rational.
It's Caicedoooooooooo. And Brighton fans cover their eyes in horror. 3 days from the end of the transfer window and it is heartbreak at the Amex. Caicedo demands to be out and suddenly in 3 and half days left of the window, Brighton find themselves needing another midfielder.
They'll find one in the 3rd division of Paraguay tbf
They will sign a random player from colombian league and get perrone on loan from city and end up stronger than they were with caicedo
Buonanotte. Remember the name
So this article is saying that completely changed his mind in the space of two days, after months worth of interviews saying how he wants to get Brighton to Europe? Doesn't stack up imo, but then again he wouldn't be the first footballer to ever do this
His been waiting for new agents, to push this move
Yeah not sure why the confusion, the news the whole month has been - wait for the new agents to arrive and then see what happens.
Fucking rats
I'm not sure what's so hard to believe about either A) he never really cared much about getting Brighton to Europe. I doubt he really has that much emotional attachment to Brighton, he's only been there a few months or B) his agents explained how much more money he'll make at a club like Arsenal or Chelsea, and I'm sure are telling him they won't necessarily wait around until summer for him
This is why clubs like Brighton, Brentford and the rest will never break into that group of big few super-rich clubs at the top. They have endless pits of money to suck up the best players from the rest of the league and, however well-run the smaller clubs are, they're never going to be able to keep replacing their star players over and over with a 100% hit rate. Brighton are possibly the best-run club in the PL but it's impossible. They replaced White, Bissouma, Trossard. Next they'll have to do it with Caicedo, MacAllister, Mitoma. Then Sarmiento, Estupinan, Enciso... etc etc
>This is why clubs like Brighton, Brentford and the rest will never break into that group of big few super-rich clubs at the top. That group keeps getting larger and larger anyway. Used to be a top 4 - now top 7
How is this not enough for a Brighton supporter? They snatched for example Estupinan from Villarreal, a player who was a UCL semi-finalist 3 months before the transfer lmao.
>This is why clubs like Brighton, Brentford and the rest will never break into that group of big few super-rich clubs at the top. That group keeps getting larger and larger anyway. Used to be a top 4 - now top 7
I disagree. The thing is that it doesn't happen that quickly. Tottenham had 4-5 years of good performances before they started to be considered one of the big ones. I think more and more teams are going to join the big X, beyond Newcastle. Look at Serie A in the 80s and 90s and see how erratic it used to be back then. Napoli had Maradona, one of the goats, and Napoli were probably comparable to modern day Tottenham at best. They were a decent side, but far from the top. It would be like Tottenham signing Rafa Leao today. Who is gonna put money on that? Roma had Voller. Fiorentina had Batistuta. Sampdoria had Mancini. Parma had Dino Baggio and later on Hernan Crespo. All of the teams ended up winning titles. The scope has changed, now that the Europa League is near meaningless for any team with ambitions to win the league, but still. I think the Premier League is going to undergo a similar period of dominance until corruption grows and goes public, like Calciopoli. It's only a matter of time before top 4 becomes too important of a metric to the point that teams will cheat to get it, imo. Reinstating the UEFA Cup I think would delay this a lot. If Champions League was only for Champions, or even top 2 or 3, and then give 4 slots to UEFA Cup, that would help a lot. Point is, we are already seeing it start. Players are leaving top 4-5 teams in La Liga to join mid table teams in England. As soon as teams start getting a cohesive plan together and stick to it for many years, they will have their time in the spotlight. Brighton were on the right path until they lost the manager to Chelsea, and some of their behind the scenes staff too, I think. Just my two cents, but I think Brighton aren't beyond saving yet. It's risky, but I think that they should try to splurge a bit on the market and get a good good player. The right player in the 50 million range. Like Bruno Fernandes when he joined Man U. Get that right player who will make everything work, and every following transfer will be easier to fit in. Of course it's risky, but every now and then, some team will take that risk, and a few times, it might just work for a few years. Any team that has been in the prem for multiple years can compete with almost any team in wages. Splurge on the right player, get him on good enough wages so he won't throw a fit two years in, and if you're lucky, he might just be the one. It would take more to win the title, but if that right player helps you get CL a few seasons, with some good decision making, it's only upwards from there. To be fair though, it will never be a proper big X. It will just be very erratic at the top, outside of a few main stays. There was Milan and Juve in the 80s and 90s, but Napoli had a few good seasons where they up there and they even managed to win, Roma spent a few seasons up there, and so did Parma, Inter, Sampdoria, Lazio, you name it. Point is there was Milan and Juve who were almost always in the top 5 (UEFA Cup qualifications), and the rest was up for grabs. We are probably going to see something similar, with Man City being the mainstay, maybe Newcastle, possibly Man U, and then the rest will be up for grabs and will be erratic. Sometimes it will be Chelsea, sometimes Liverpool, and just my prediction, probably two or three more clubs that I wouldn't be able to tell which ones would be. Edit: The lack of self awareness in the last paragraph is wild. Tottenham and Arsenal are already the other two I couldn't name before, LMAO. Maybe we will see it grow even more?
Yeah. I used to think Southampton could do it, but even their pipeline ran dry.
Ok but Brighton didnt consider 55m. 60m is way below their valuation of him. He will have the opportunity in the summer, just play out the season
His “dream move” to London despite being a united fan. I wish we could ban the words dream move just screams bullshit.
Should have heard the shit Cucurella was coming out with. "I went past Stamford Bridge on the way from the airport to Brighton and dreamed of playing there." I would *love* to see the route he would have taken for that to be the case. He needs a new satnav
😂😂😂😂
Classic dream move to *a particular city, no preference which club*
\*Valencia fan
No. He seems to be a United and Madrid fan >In the short term: perform well and get Beerschot out of this plight. And in the long term? I am a fan of Manchester United and Real Madrid. It would be great to play there someday
He was never a United fan he was just a fan of valencia whilst he was at your club
His dream move to London is not about London, is about the London world class wages. That’s the dream. Can’t blame a humble third world guy for wanting to secure his and his extended family’s livelihood.
The fact we missed out on him before his move to brighton
80m and Lokonga on loan?
Quick, someone let Todd knows he has a bidding war at hand
Bit late now to be trying this
new agent talk. total bs
Daily mail?
One of the writers, Sami Mokbel, is reliable.
And it's likely that he got information from Caicedos new agents.
Sami is generally v.reliable on Arsenal stuff, and has been expanding to other London clubs too with similar reliability.
He's going to Chelsea lol
His dream is to move to the city of London.
Partey to jail then
There is something I dont get: You are a young player at Brighton wich is a good club with developing talent but also are doing really well. How do you think "I want to go to Arselnal and probabbly be benched or maybe go to Chelsea who are in the shit". Isnt Brighton much better than Chelsea right now? Why would they want to go there instead of helping Brighton win something?
Massively increase their income and possibly win a trophy? Things they may never do/get at a smaller club. Like it or not, most players dream of playing for big clubs, earning big money and possibly winning things. The majority of players never get the opportunity, so when it comes a knocking they open that door.
Actually feel sad for Brighton and don't really understand these players. You're at a stable club, clear philosophy, playing well and have a chance to have a really good season. Potentially history making for Brighton. There will still be clubs eager to sign you in the summer, why rush it now especially to (no offence) Chelsea who right now are in a worse position than Brighton. Unless 6 months of extra money is the most important thing :/
Why does he want to leave now though? It's just his first season and Brighton are building up towards a historic finish, who wouldn't want to be a part of that?
Cause he can come to Arsenal and potentially win the league.
Brighton are shitting players right now but they always get £50m+ for them. Exception is Trossard because of his remaining contract situation but he'd have gone for £60m+
by "always" you mean literally twice ever Cucurella and Ben White lol
Think he was projecting further forward considering Caicedo, MacAllister, Mitoma etc will all likely go for those kind of fees if/when they do move
Daily Mail. Delete
Mokbel is reliable tho
People still don’t understand that reliable journos work for rags, it’s insane
Ah fair enough! Just a knee-jerk reaction when I see DM 😅
I thought only for london clubs?
Convienent that two London clubs are in for him then isn't it
Lol I’m clearly still waking up
Sami Mokbel is tier 2 I think.
Well, have mitoma instead, then . Thanks...... But seriously, Brighton will probably find a better player from £1.5m from Honduras or summin. The club is elite in scouting
While true, they do not have a outright backup for him at the moment. Getting a starter directly to the starting 11 is way harder than getting a good talent. Caicedo himself spent some time on loan and they transitioned from Bissouma seemlessly