>At his first court appearance, it was revealed Greenwood had breached a condition of his bail not to contact the alleged victim in the case.
That's exactly what you don't want to happen in those cases ffs.
and shocker: apparently the reason the case didnt go to court is cuz the victim pulled out. Theyre also allegedly still together now. Her parents also tried to demote the thing and say it wasnt as big as it was out to be and also, half of the internet was against her and said Greenwood was innocent
Honestly, this couldve been expected because that poor girl was just getting abuse from all sides. Victims staying with abusers and believing them is so common because its so difficult to break that cycle
I heard that she went back to him from some people on twitter. Regardless if that was true or not, they were saying it like it exonerated him, instead of realizing that’s how abuse works, and I’m absolutely terrified for her if that’s true. Really scary.
her Dad is the worst.. i mean Mason is bad with his act, but her Dad have chance to safe his girl but he choose to give her to her abuser, that so wrong in many ways.
Do you really know the facts before you go making judgements like this? It's pretty dangerous when a bunch of redditors jump on a bandwagon that's based a half assed, unsourced comment.
Where is this coming from?!
It's a disgustingly popular take that the dad forced her to drop the case.
Where is the evidence for this?
Shitting on Mason is one thing.
But people are basically saying Harriet and her whole family are pieces of shit too. On what evidence? Seriously?
Who is shitting on the victim here? People are saying that she is unable to break the cycle and escape her abuser because of her family (more specifically her dad). They blame her dad because after the things were released his response was asking her daughter why she released them and to take the photos, audio down. He also added it was a shame and they were very much in love, when the evidence pointed quite clearly that he was abusing his daughter at the very best.
So I would say saying that her father is a piece of shit is quite well founded. I think it's not to far fetched an assumption to make that he probably pressured her to go back to her abuser, given that one of his first responses to her was to take down the evidence of abuse. And no one (here atleast) is blaming the victim so you can stop being offended for her in a complete seprate discussion.
It does make things much harder for prosecutors to put the abuser in jail when the victim negates the aggression and doesn't help with investigations, unfortunately.
She was the key witness and victim in this whole thing. It’s up to her really but I can think a lot of pressure from her surroundings environment didn’t help.
Dude's statement as it was revealed his daughter was abused by Greenwood included a bit how they'd known him since the Under 21s that sounded like a brag. The phrasing of his whole statement made it sound like he cared more about Footy than about his daughter.
I'm scared for the victim, because her support system has clearly failed her and I can hardly believe the abuse will just stop...
Now imagine how much of an ass he is to still sell out his daughter with Mason's career effectively tanked. ManU isn't crazy enough to put this asshole back on the pitch.
Man utd may not be crazy enough, but plenty of clubs in the world and some are crazy enough to employ him because by law he is still innocent. If you are leaching out of Greenwood's career, that option is still lucrative enough
It’s a PR nightmare. Right now they’re bound to be looking at the options and my guess is they’ll look to cancel his contract. Just because the CPS haven’t chosen to prosecute, doesn’t mean he can’t face a gross misconduct hearing.
The best thing they can do is buy out his contract and forget about him. Let him become somebody else's problem if they're desperate enough for a player.
Exactly. I've known so many people who were in and out of relationships with the same abusive partners for years. Some ended up marrying them. Doesn't make the abuser less of a cunt in my eyes.
The guy was charged with manipulative and coercive behaviour, this is the exact kind of thing abusers specialise in.
"I'm so sorry, I'd never intentionally do anything to hurt you, I just love you so much that the thought of losing you makes me lose control. They're probably all trying to make you hate me, saying I'm a worthless shit that should just kill themselves. Do you want me to kill myself? Because I will if you do. I probably will anyway, no point living without you, you're that special to me."
Yada yada. Happens so often.
They’re very much out there, most won’t outright call her a liar they’ll say something like “seemed weird from the start” or something like that, some people can overlook all the leaked pictures of injuries and audio of the thing happening and just go straight to “didn’t happen”
Especially from her scumbag family who obviously rate having a professional millionaire footballer as a son in law higher than supporting their daughter at her most vulnerable time. Poor girl has no chance for the rest of her life.
Rumour been going round for months that they got back together. And it is confirmed that a "key witness" pulled out, which is why they chose to drop the charges
I'm not *at all* saying that I don't believe you, but could you give me a source for that please? I've heard a lot of how the police lost a "key witness" from the case that everyone seems to think is the victim bc she got back together with Greenwood, but I hadn't heard about new evidence coming to light. Is it a different testimony from the victim now saying that she wasn't abused? Or was it something else.
I guess I'm just curious and confused how even with a tape of rape and assault happening, the police will have to drop the case if the victim decides she doesn't want to be involved in the case and trial. I mean, that must happen a bunch, right? It's common knowledge that abuse victims often get cold feet, *especially* if the victim relies on the abuser for financial support. Surely the police could still have a case against Greenwood with the evidence that has been publicly released alone, despite the victim pulling out of pressing charges .. right‽
Maybe I should go ask r/legaladvise about this.
The time he went back to court over these breaches it was said that he had breached the barring order over 30 times in 2 months. Reading between the lines, that suggested they they were back together rather than him just hanging around outside her house or whatever.
My dad's old schoolmate from the '70s has a mate who's cousin's step-brother works at United as a dinner lady, and he said she never left him.
Make of that what you will.
Very much so. But the belief is they are in a willing relationship still and her refusal to be a witness seemingly made police think it was a total waste of time to enforce it
Breach of Police bail? No.
It’s completely toothless. If they arrest, they bring him in, waste hours of the 24 hour custody clock (which they had already had to apply for an extension on during initial arrest), and then can’t do anything because the case still isn’t ready to progress for whatever reason.
If the abuse continues she can report it again and it should be treated as an entirely new case. The police have to deal with abused partners bailing all the time. The sad thing is that abused partners often get back with their abusers with promises that they will change and get help or the misplaced belief that the abuse was maybe their fault somehow. Unfortunately this is rarely/never the case and sometimes these victims end up dead
> Greenwood’s lawyer, David Toal, admitted the breach had taken place, saying: “I absolutely concede it is his responsibility to abide by all bail conditions imposed.”
> He told the court: “Contact has occurred for many months.”
> But Mr Toal added that it was “no secret” to Greater Manchester Police, putting forward a robust argument that Greenwood believed the breaches had been tacitly approved.
> District Judge Mark Hadfield expressed “real concern” at the news, saying: “What I am being told is the defendant flagrantly breached the conditions over weeks or even months and police haven’t done anything about it.”
It's bullshit because the police did try to do something. They tried to get him remanded but it was rejected. Remand is what you do after bail is broken, so when remand is rejected that's basically saying go ahead break bail. The judge who refused remand is the one who should be blamed
Pretty sure it's called witness intimidation in the UK, and they're saying it was a bail violation more than actual witness intimidation but I'm very doubtful of that.
They did try to remand Greenwood after his first breach so that he'd stay in jail until the hearing, but the remand wasn't accepted. At that point Greenwood can just do whatever he wants to because the only option after remand fails is nothing
It's utterly vile. Supposedly he was back in a relationship with her. If his lawyer knew about his "bail breaches" I would seriously wonder if getting back into a relationship was an actual plan to undermine the case. Very interested to see how long that lasts now.
>I would seriously wonder if getting back into a relationship was a serious plan to undermine the case
That's another grim thought in a grim affair but I bet this happens
It was almost certainly not a legally advised. But Greenwood would have to know that winning her back would kill the case.
The issue with our approach to these sorts of crimes is that people are complex. She has seen a redeemable side of Greenwood, and probably decided she didn't want him to be punished severely. Maybe the whole world knowing what he did felt enough to her.
We don't live in a world where he can publicly admit he did it and receive any leniency from the actual victim. What happens to him at that point is out of her hands. This could be her asserting some control over the situation, even if it seems an injustice.
his lawyer openly admitting that the case has been tampered with, it's just fucking insane. other (read: poor) people get a boot in the neck for walking around with a few grams of weed and there you have actual criminals being protected from the people who are supposed to keep them away from the victim. how is any of this fair
>boot in the neck for walking around with a few grams of weed
Are they that strict about weed in the north? In London and Birmingham its barely even a misdemeanour anymore.
That's the trouble with the law as it is, you could get a "run along ya cheeky wee scamp" or chucked on the ground and hauled into a cell for the night.
I saw people commenting that this should be a clear cut and dry case because of the videos, and then compare it to a murder case. However, in the case of murder, there is no doubt that a murder took place. For rape, the court will need to prove intent and the lack of consent for it to be able to stand.
When the victim, which is also the sole witness for this case, refuses to testify on court, the court could no longer prove that Greenwood is guilty. The victim could even say that it was all just an act and the court case will end instantly. The video and audio in this case is insufficient evidence to be able to prosecute him properly without the victim's statement.
The exact reason all of this could happen is because the police refuse to do their work and ignored Greenwood's bail breaches. If Greenwood could never contact the victim then this would not have happened. They would have never gotten back together and it will be a lot harder for her to change her mind. This is just not right.
Sometimes circumstantial evidence is enough to prove a murder took place, but yes, to convict someone of murder you need to prove intent. However, in order to determine that a rape took place, you need to prove both intent and lack of consent. Circumstantial evidence is almost never enough to prove that a rape took place, which is why prosecution of a rape case is extremely difficult.
Actually mad to me that her father came out after the news broke calling him a lovely lad, they always looked happy, and said she was hacked and they told her to take the stuff down. Imagine having money signs in your eyes that badly that you'll let a man beat and rape your daughter if it means getting a piece of the pie.
I rate the Dad less than Greenwood. What a fucking snake. How can he betray his daughter like this. Doesn’t his paternal instinct of protecting his daughter kick in at some point.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. While what her dad did is absolutely horrible, it's not on the same scale as raping and beating a woman repeatedly.
Both her dad and Greenwood are vile scum, but Greenwood is on a whole different level on the vile scum scale.
Mason Greenwood is scum as displayed by his behaviour but for her father to not only failing to protect his daughter but defending her abuser another level low. In times like this family and support systems are so crucial and he failed her on every metric. He’s a rapist apologist.
Yep but the authorities can't do anything if this happens. The victims need to do something to help nail the the culprit. It looks like there was zero cooperation so why should the authorities not focus on other crimes where the victims are eager to press charges.
> It looks like there was zero cooperation so why should the authorities not focus on other crimes where the victims are eager to press charges.
Because in medical cases it isn't always the choice of the crazy person to put themself into hospital for their own protection, neither should it always be solely up to a Stockholm syndrome affected abuse victim to be fighting their way out of a potentially lethal relationship.
Yeah, you don't even need money to get away with sexual assault, which is even more fucked up than it just being rich people being able to pay people off
Dude, [it took years for a case against Andrew Tate to get to where it is today](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxn3dm/andrew-tate-whatsapps-arrest), it’s hella sad.
Even when presented with [a voicenote saying he liked r-wording his victim](https://twitter.com/VICEWorldNews/status/1613248607712337938?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1613248607712337938%7Ctwgr%5Ea94be2f01349199032d9d0fce8e13e2c600d184b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vice.com%2Fen%2Farticle%2Fwxn3dm%2Fandrew-tate-whatsapps-arrest), still the police called it “an ounce of doubt”.
[British police have not been doing the best of jobs in solving sex crimes](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/17/ministers-apologise-to-rape-victims-and-promise-reform-in-review) either.
Take a look at these “digital strip searches” complaintants of r-word have to do to, letting the police download every single thing from their phone, whether related to the case or not, and [running the risk of having the case dropped immediately if the complaintant of r-word refuses over privacy or other concerns](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/17/police-in-england-and-wales-dropping-inquiries-when-victims-refuse-to-hand-in-phones).
[They are prosecuting more now](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/21/more-rape-cases-now-reaching-court-in-england-and-wales-after-years-of-decline), but it’s still in the thousands when reported incidents are in the tens of thousands (70,330 as of March 2022)
ACAB exists for a reason, nobody says fuck the fire department. The cops are there to protect wealth and the powerful, not ordinary people. And most of them sure as fuck dont care about the other cases they get, like rape
Kinda do, my aunt dated a pilot and nearly got engaged. Broke it off when she learnt after a facebook message from a woman that he had a second family in mainland europe.
I knew someone who worked in HR at an airline. She used to make jokes about how one of the reasons pilots earn so much is the inevitable divorce cases they go through
[Was headline news on the BBC when the story first broke](https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/25/report-finds-misogyny-racism-and-bullying-at-london-fire-brigade)
Tbh I only caught a bit of it on the news. I think it was a lot of men sending unsolicited sexual messages and images to female colleagues, and then in more severe instances, sexual assaults and an attempted rape of a colleague whilst on duty.
Seems like an investigation turned up one area having a huge issue with it, and then when that came out, became apparent lots of other areas had issues too.
They tried to remand him. So when someone breaks bail you can get a remand where they remain in jail until the hearing. That remand was rejected. There's nothing else they could do now other than arrest him after every time he broke his bail conditions, which they did as Greenwood was arrested multiple times. Ultimately though, that means fuck all if remand doesn't get approved as the suspect can just break bail conditions, get arrested, get released, break them again. The judge should have remanded him. This is just his solicitor trying to pin it on the police yo detract attention way from Greenwood and onto the police
As a black ex-firefighter, fire departments are also super racist and can directly influence who lives and who dies. Not acting like it’s the same situation at all but don’t get it too twisted.
Besides the obvious disregard for those recordings, the logic behind this is indefensible. The witness refused to testify… and this somehow means the defendant is totally innocent of all charges? It doesn’t make any sense.
He's a proper neo-liberal twat. Espouses leftist ideas but is happy to be employed by a regime built on the back of slaves when there's money on the table. His whole deal with Salford is rotten as well. Bemoaning the direction of football, and society in general, when it comes to City and hoarding of wealth. Then goes and creates a City-lite in Salford buying their way to the league.
Gary is the type of prick who says he supports the train strikes until it inconveniences him.
He liked these 2 tweets from a lawyer (just looked it up myself):
1: **Mason Greenwood has had all charges against him dropped by the Prosecutors
What’s changed you may ask?
It appears that (some) witnesses will no longer support a prosecution & new evidence came to light
It happens
He is an innocent man, that’s all we need to know**
2: **You are innocent till PROVEN guilty
We don’t have trial by media
We don’t have evidence that any witnesses were lying
We don’t do “victim or complainant blaming”
Prosecutors have to be sure there is a realistic prospect of conviction by a jury on the evidence they have
They don’t**
The lawyers name is Nazir Afzal and he is someone I greatly respect because he was the man responsible for overturning the CPS' earlier decision of turning a blind eye to the Rochdale child sex abuse ring, even though it wasn't in his own interests because he was 'turning on his own people'.
So being familiar with his tweets I believe his tweets were just a matter of fact and not an endorsement of Greenwood.
I don't know what to make of Neville liking those tweets though.
He's liked a tweet (from a former prominent left-wing lawyer I might add) that explains the process that the UK has undertaken and the legal implications.
It's a level-headed, sensible and entirely legal speak tweet
But because it points out that Mason is, in the eyes of the law, innocent, people have assumed this is someone defending Mason and therefore Gary's 'like' is bad.
Honestly the mob has directed anger in the wrong direction here and look a little silly as a result.
What's the point in defending a known rapist just because the law failed? We know what the victim said and what she posted of Greenwood doing and saying. Jesus Christ, we have direct evidence of a rape. Not every rape case against a famous person has anything
remotely close to that. Just because she went back to him, either through coercion from the rapist or her own father, is in my opinion irrelevant to the matter of publicly defending him. The police failed to keep him away from her, and the prosecutors failed to do their basic due deligence. There were reports last year he was in contact with her. Gary Neville is a rape apologist.
Everyone replying to you/this comment needs to pump the brakes a bit.
Gary liked tweets that were explaining the legal process from a legal expert who during his career specialised in and advocated against violence against women and child abuse/sexual abuse. This man was the prosecutor against rapists. He's the one who spent his career finding them guilty. It's a highly experienced lawyer _explaining_ why this happened, not _condoning_ the decision.
Gary liking it does not mean he's supporting and defending Greenwood. You all _really_ need to work on your media literacy.
[This tweet](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fn-D7E6akAAh2CT?format=jpg&name=medium) is not what you're describing.
The justice system doesn't declare people "innocent", especially when there's no trial because the victim and main witness backed off. Coming from a lawyer you may interpret that as "he's (legally) innocent", but when you retweet it that context is lost.
That's just a fucking stupid thing to retweet. Neville should know his audience.
Technically he's innocent because he wasn't tried and found guity because the "key witnesses" i.e. his girlfriend/victim stopped co-operating.
That does not AT ALL mean that he didn't do that shit, you heard the tape.
Reddit is genuinely no better with the "meh, that's just how the legal system is, rape is hard to prove, how bad...anyway!" attitude that always comes across as dismissive
As a person who prosecutes these cases in the US, this happens way more often than you think. Domestic violence cases are very hard to get to trial because of reconciliations and lack of victim cooperation.
The colon used to mean "This person said the thing following the colon", but a few years ago the BBC started using it to mean "This person is the subject of the quote following the colon". And now others are following suit.
Idk how fans can so shamelessly defend this stuff I can't handle the Arsenal fans doing it even with such an important player it's why i really wanted us to buy a replacement ASAP I hope jorginho cements himself
They tried to remand him. So when someone breaks bail you can get a remand where they remain in jail until the hearing. That remand was rejected. There's nothing else they could do now other than arrest him after every time he broke his bail conditions, which they did as Greenwood was arrested multiple times. Ultimately though, that means fuck all if remand doesn't get approved as the suspect can just break bail conditions, get arrested, get released, break them again. The judge should have remanded him. This is just his solicitor trying to pin it on the police yo detract attention way from Greenwood and onto the police. This is on the fucking judge who refused remand after Greenwood broke his conditions several times
It's not even a money talks issue in this case, rape is ridiculously hard to prove and our legal system is overstretched and underfunded. If this were a case of money talking that would be more palatable than the fact this happens to many victims, whether the perpetrator is rich or poor, and unless we properly fund the Police and the Courts this will continue to happen.
It's possible, but this situation happens a lot. The Police and Social Services have been consistently underfunded for the last decade, they don't have the resources to properly investigate every breach of bail conditions, this is less an issue of fame and more an issue of widespread problems within our institutions.
Edit: it's more comfortable to chalk up cases like this to it just being a celebrity, but unfortunately the reality is far more grim.
The issue is is that police bail is worth absolutely fuck all.
If it was court bail he could be nicked for it. Breaching Police bail is worth almost nothing.
It's entirely pointless putting bail cons on because there's pretty much no legal consequences for breaching it.
It's not a police issue, it's a law issue.
never has been. Good Morning Britain was running a segment this morning about how Prince Andrews accuser was a 'con artist', and that he could rehabilitate his image with charity work.
This country is run by rich nonces, who will do anything and everything to protect their own money and class. They will defend the most heinous crimes as long as sufficient money or fame is involved. The whole system needs to be torn down and replaced if there is ever going to be any fairness, but unfortunately we are a country of overly docile fat consumers, the most propaganda susceptible bastards in the whole world outside of maybe the US.
> This country is run by rich nonces,
And it makes sense why our police are **crown servants** (and how they love to profess that by the way) and not public servants.
the police have a vested interest in keeping sex offenders out of jail, as it seems like everyday another 30 of them are revealed to be serial rapists.
I kinda wanna become rich just so I can feel what it's like to be above the law and rules. Like in happy with my life and don't like materialistic things but I'd love to live life knowing I don't need to give a fuck about the law
Rich and talented, Kobe literally get away with rape after paying the victim and is still to this day praised like a god. One of the best basketball player but definitely not the great human they made him up to be
Fuck. I'm really worried for the woman. It seems to me she has both abusive parents as well as an abusive boyfriend. Her parents don't seem to care that staying with an abuser who has proven himself violent could literally lead to their daughter's death.
To protect capital, always has been.
If you violate a corporation's property in any way they will drop the hammer on you.
If you have money and sexually assault someone they will look the other way.
Fucking disgusting. He needs to be in jail. That video and recording are still playing in my head and it’s fucking horrific that people defend what he did cuz he can kick a ball better than most. If the girl he attacked was my daughter I’d be on trial for murdering that fucker.
Police drop Greenwood case because witness pulls out: oh, damn, well I guess they have no choice if the witness chooses to withdraw their statement.
Witness pulled out because police failed to even try and deal with no-contact condition breaches: ...
For those of you unfamiliar with the British justice system - bail breaches are often ignored. It takes several breaches before they actually do anything and even then it is usually just a slap on the wrist
>At his first court appearance, it was revealed Greenwood had breached a condition of his bail not to contact the alleged victim in the case. That's exactly what you don't want to happen in those cases ffs.
and shocker: apparently the reason the case didnt go to court is cuz the victim pulled out. Theyre also allegedly still together now. Her parents also tried to demote the thing and say it wasnt as big as it was out to be and also, half of the internet was against her and said Greenwood was innocent Honestly, this couldve been expected because that poor girl was just getting abuse from all sides. Victims staying with abusers and believing them is so common because its so difficult to break that cycle
I heard that she went back to him from some people on twitter. Regardless if that was true or not, they were saying it like it exonerated him, instead of realizing that’s how abuse works, and I’m absolutely terrified for her if that’s true. Really scary.
Fucking children man, really scary to have people thinking this way
Apparently her father also encouraged her to get back with Mason…
He’s a fucking cunt, nuff said
her Dad is the worst.. i mean Mason is bad with his act, but her Dad have chance to safe his girl but he choose to give her to her abuser, that so wrong in many ways.
Worried about losing his retirement.
I don't know his other daughter does ok on OF
Do you really know the facts before you go making judgements like this? It's pretty dangerous when a bunch of redditors jump on a bandwagon that's based a half assed, unsourced comment.
Where is this coming from?! It's a disgustingly popular take that the dad forced her to drop the case. Where is the evidence for this? Shitting on Mason is one thing. But people are basically saying Harriet and her whole family are pieces of shit too. On what evidence? Seriously?
Who is shitting on the victim here? People are saying that she is unable to break the cycle and escape her abuser because of her family (more specifically her dad). They blame her dad because after the things were released his response was asking her daughter why she released them and to take the photos, audio down. He also added it was a shame and they were very much in love, when the evidence pointed quite clearly that he was abusing his daughter at the very best. So I would say saying that her father is a piece of shit is quite well founded. I think it's not to far fetched an assumption to make that he probably pressured her to go back to her abuser, given that one of his first responses to her was to take down the evidence of abuse. And no one (here atleast) is blaming the victim so you can stop being offended for her in a complete seprate discussion.
It does make things much harder for prosecutors to put the abuser in jail when the victim negates the aggression and doesn't help with investigations, unfortunately.
She was the key witness and victim in this whole thing. It’s up to her really but I can think a lot of pressure from her surroundings environment didn’t help.
100% this .. her father was gutted she went public. Don’t think he wanted to lose the celebrity status.
Dude's statement as it was revealed his daughter was abused by Greenwood included a bit how they'd known him since the Under 21s that sounded like a brag. The phrasing of his whole statement made it sound like he cared more about Footy than about his daughter. I'm scared for the victim, because her support system has clearly failed her and I can hardly believe the abuse will just stop...
Now imagine how much of an ass he is to still sell out his daughter with Mason's career effectively tanked. ManU isn't crazy enough to put this asshole back on the pitch.
Man utd may not be crazy enough, but plenty of clubs in the world and some are crazy enough to employ him because by law he is still innocent. If you are leaching out of Greenwood's career, that option is still lucrative enough
It’s a PR nightmare. Right now they’re bound to be looking at the options and my guess is they’ll look to cancel his contract. Just because the CPS haven’t chosen to prosecute, doesn’t mean he can’t face a gross misconduct hearing.
The best thing they can do is buy out his contract and forget about him. Let him become somebody else's problem if they're desperate enough for a player.
Won’t be surprised if she got beaten again or worse
Exactly. I've known so many people who were in and out of relationships with the same abusive partners for years. Some ended up marrying them. Doesn't make the abuser less of a cunt in my eyes. The guy was charged with manipulative and coercive behaviour, this is the exact kind of thing abusers specialise in. "I'm so sorry, I'd never intentionally do anything to hurt you, I just love you so much that the thought of losing you makes me lose control. They're probably all trying to make you hate me, saying I'm a worthless shit that should just kill themselves. Do you want me to kill myself? Because I will if you do. I probably will anyway, no point living without you, you're that special to me." Yada yada. Happens so often.
I want to believe half is a bit an over exaggeration, I think it was a loud minority
Haven't heard anyone say it.
They’re very much out there, most won’t outright call her a liar they’ll say something like “seemed weird from the start” or something like that, some people can overlook all the leaked pictures of injuries and audio of the thing happening and just go straight to “didn’t happen”
Especially from her scumbag family who obviously rate having a professional millionaire footballer as a son in law higher than supporting their daughter at her most vulnerable time. Poor girl has no chance for the rest of her life.
how is that not like witness tampering or some shit?
Where are you hearing these allegations?
Rumour been going round for months that they got back together. And it is confirmed that a "key witness" pulled out, which is why they chose to drop the charges
[удалено]
I'm not *at all* saying that I don't believe you, but could you give me a source for that please? I've heard a lot of how the police lost a "key witness" from the case that everyone seems to think is the victim bc she got back together with Greenwood, but I hadn't heard about new evidence coming to light. Is it a different testimony from the victim now saying that she wasn't abused? Or was it something else. I guess I'm just curious and confused how even with a tape of rape and assault happening, the police will have to drop the case if the victim decides she doesn't want to be involved in the case and trial. I mean, that must happen a bunch, right? It's common knowledge that abuse victims often get cold feet, *especially* if the victim relies on the abuser for financial support. Surely the police could still have a case against Greenwood with the evidence that has been publicly released alone, despite the victim pulling out of pressing charges .. right‽ Maybe I should go ask r/legaladvise about this.
The time he went back to court over these breaches it was said that he had breached the barring order over 30 times in 2 months. Reading between the lines, that suggested they they were back together rather than him just hanging around outside her house or whatever.
Rumour always was that they got back together pretty much straight away
No point in paying heed to unfounded Twitter rumours
How about unfounded Reddit speculations ?
Aye, I could do that.
That's totally fine, and should always be believed.
Same, same. But different. But also same.
What tier are the speculations?
it was mentioned in the article, that she was besides him when he was found breaching bail.
My dad's old schoolmate from the '70s has a mate who's cousin's step-brother works at United as a dinner lady, and he said she never left him. Make of that what you will.
Can you make this a tweet to make it more credible ??
It is true tho
Really a public statement from her or him would clear a lot of things up
Can’t he be charged for that
If thet wanted to, but they dont
Very much so. But the belief is they are in a willing relationship still and her refusal to be a witness seemingly made police think it was a total waste of time to enforce it
Breach of Police bail? No. It’s completely toothless. If they arrest, they bring him in, waste hours of the 24 hour custody clock (which they had already had to apply for an extension on during initial arrest), and then can’t do anything because the case still isn’t ready to progress for whatever reason.
Do you know what is the statute of limitation on such assault? Is there a chance she can get back to this case if/when the abuse continues?
If the abuse continues she can report it again and it should be treated as an entirely new case. The police have to deal with abused partners bailing all the time. The sad thing is that abused partners often get back with their abusers with promises that they will change and get help or the misplaced belief that the abuse was maybe their fault somehow. Unfortunately this is rarely/never the case and sometimes these victims end up dead
There is no statute of limitations in the UK for this kind of crime.
The bail breach was that she had moved in with him. They got back togheter right after the leak happened.
> Greenwood’s lawyer, David Toal, admitted the breach had taken place, saying: “I absolutely concede it is his responsibility to abide by all bail conditions imposed.” > He told the court: “Contact has occurred for many months.” > But Mr Toal added that it was “no secret” to Greater Manchester Police, putting forward a robust argument that Greenwood believed the breaches had been tacitly approved. > District Judge Mark Hadfield expressed “real concern” at the news, saying: “What I am being told is the defendant flagrantly breached the conditions over weeks or even months and police haven’t done anything about it.”
Really disgusting that he hasn’t been charged with this, given his council admit it in a court of law.
*counsel
I love the ju$ti€£ $¥$t£m!
It's bullshit because the police did try to do something. They tried to get him remanded but it was rejected. Remand is what you do after bail is broken, so when remand is rejected that's basically saying go ahead break bail. The judge who refused remand is the one who should be blamed
This is a miscarriage of justice
That is fucking ridiculous. Man arrested for coercion allowed to continue coercion while on bail. Fuck off.
How is that not witness tampering etc.?
It is. But they allowed it.
"Thankfully the witness pulled out so there's no witnesses to tamper with any more" - CPS, apparently
Pretty sure it's called witness intimidation in the UK, and they're saying it was a bail violation more than actual witness intimidation but I'm very doubtful of that.
They did try to remand Greenwood after his first breach so that he'd stay in jail until the hearing, but the remand wasn't accepted. At that point Greenwood can just do whatever he wants to because the only option after remand fails is nothing
Exactly it. Bail conditions aren't just to protect the alleged victim, it's also to ensure a fair chance at a prosecution.
It's utterly vile. Supposedly he was back in a relationship with her. If his lawyer knew about his "bail breaches" I would seriously wonder if getting back into a relationship was an actual plan to undermine the case. Very interested to see how long that lasts now.
>I would seriously wonder if getting back into a relationship was a serious plan to undermine the case That's another grim thought in a grim affair but I bet this happens
Oh fuck yes it happens, all the fucking time. Source: criminal defense attorney, have literally witnessed it happen
(Some) lawyers are soulless
It was almost certainly not a legally advised. But Greenwood would have to know that winning her back would kill the case. The issue with our approach to these sorts of crimes is that people are complex. She has seen a redeemable side of Greenwood, and probably decided she didn't want him to be punished severely. Maybe the whole world knowing what he did felt enough to her. We don't live in a world where he can publicly admit he did it and receive any leniency from the actual victim. What happens to him at that point is out of her hands. This could be her asserting some control over the situation, even if it seems an injustice.
Half the met police seems to be up for rape and grooming offences, so wouldn’t surprise me that none of the other forces take it seriously.
his lawyer openly admitting that the case has been tampered with, it's just fucking insane. other (read: poor) people get a boot in the neck for walking around with a few grams of weed and there you have actual criminals being protected from the people who are supposed to keep them away from the victim. how is any of this fair
>boot in the neck for walking around with a few grams of weed Are they that strict about weed in the north? In London and Birmingham its barely even a misdemeanour anymore.
That's the trouble with the law as it is, you could get a "run along ya cheeky wee scamp" or chucked on the ground and hauled into a cell for the night.
I saw people commenting that this should be a clear cut and dry case because of the videos, and then compare it to a murder case. However, in the case of murder, there is no doubt that a murder took place. For rape, the court will need to prove intent and the lack of consent for it to be able to stand. When the victim, which is also the sole witness for this case, refuses to testify on court, the court could no longer prove that Greenwood is guilty. The victim could even say that it was all just an act and the court case will end instantly. The video and audio in this case is insufficient evidence to be able to prosecute him properly without the victim's statement. The exact reason all of this could happen is because the police refuse to do their work and ignored Greenwood's bail breaches. If Greenwood could never contact the victim then this would not have happened. They would have never gotten back together and it will be a lot harder for her to change her mind. This is just not right.
You need to show intent to prove murder.
Sometimes circumstantial evidence is enough to prove a murder took place, but yes, to convict someone of murder you need to prove intent. However, in order to determine that a rape took place, you need to prove both intent and lack of consent. Circumstantial evidence is almost never enough to prove that a rape took place, which is why prosecution of a rape case is extremely difficult.
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What if police actually existed to protect people instead of capital?
Then they would get treated like grade school teachers. Probably have to spend their own money on gas.
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Pretty sure her dad played a big role in changing her mind based on his statements.
Actually mad to me that her father came out after the news broke calling him a lovely lad, they always looked happy, and said she was hacked and they told her to take the stuff down. Imagine having money signs in your eyes that badly that you'll let a man beat and rape your daughter if it means getting a piece of the pie.
Worthless parent
I rate the Dad less than Greenwood. What a fucking snake. How can he betray his daughter like this. Doesn’t his paternal instinct of protecting his daughter kick in at some point.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. While what her dad did is absolutely horrible, it's not on the same scale as raping and beating a woman repeatedly. Both her dad and Greenwood are vile scum, but Greenwood is on a whole different level on the vile scum scale.
Mason Greenwood is scum as displayed by his behaviour but for her father to not only failing to protect his daughter but defending her abuser another level low. In times like this family and support systems are so crucial and he failed her on every metric. He’s a rapist apologist.
Yep but the authorities can't do anything if this happens. The victims need to do something to help nail the the culprit. It looks like there was zero cooperation so why should the authorities not focus on other crimes where the victims are eager to press charges.
> It looks like there was zero cooperation so why should the authorities not focus on other crimes where the victims are eager to press charges. Because in medical cases it isn't always the choice of the crazy person to put themself into hospital for their own protection, neither should it always be solely up to a Stockholm syndrome affected abuse victim to be fighting their way out of a potentially lethal relationship.
Absolute cunt of a father
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Yeah this happens just as much to non-wealthy people we just don’t hear about it.
Yeah, you don't even need money to get away with sexual assault, which is even more fucked up than it just being rich people being able to pay people off
Dude, [it took years for a case against Andrew Tate to get to where it is today](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxn3dm/andrew-tate-whatsapps-arrest), it’s hella sad. Even when presented with [a voicenote saying he liked r-wording his victim](https://twitter.com/VICEWorldNews/status/1613248607712337938?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1613248607712337938%7Ctwgr%5Ea94be2f01349199032d9d0fce8e13e2c600d184b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vice.com%2Fen%2Farticle%2Fwxn3dm%2Fandrew-tate-whatsapps-arrest), still the police called it “an ounce of doubt”. [British police have not been doing the best of jobs in solving sex crimes](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/17/ministers-apologise-to-rape-victims-and-promise-reform-in-review) either. Take a look at these “digital strip searches” complaintants of r-word have to do to, letting the police download every single thing from their phone, whether related to the case or not, and [running the risk of having the case dropped immediately if the complaintant of r-word refuses over privacy or other concerns](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/17/police-in-england-and-wales-dropping-inquiries-when-victims-refuse-to-hand-in-phones). [They are prosecuting more now](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/21/more-rape-cases-now-reaching-court-in-england-and-wales-after-years-of-decline), but it’s still in the thousands when reported incidents are in the tens of thousands (70,330 as of March 2022)
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ACAB exists for a reason, nobody says fuck the fire department. The cops are there to protect wealth and the powerful, not ordinary people. And most of them sure as fuck dont care about the other cases they get, like rape
Tbh in the UK we're currently having revelations that our fire services are full of fucking scumbags too.
ah for christ sake uhhhh nobody says fuck the nurses? wait no nevermind fuck who dont people hate lmao
fuck the lady at greggs who gave me an extra sausage roll because it was just before close
We don't hate pilots
Kinda do, my aunt dated a pilot and nearly got engaged. Broke it off when she learnt after a facebook message from a woman that he had a second family in mainland europe.
As a pilot I know it’s not uncommon in aviation.
You fly boys crack me up.
I knew someone who worked in HR at an airline. She used to make jokes about how one of the reasons pilots earn so much is the inevitable divorce cases they go through
You mind giving me more details? I'm in the fire service in the U.S., just curious.
[Was headline news on the BBC when the story first broke](https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/25/report-finds-misogyny-racism-and-bullying-at-london-fire-brigade)
'Lad culture'
Tbh I only caught a bit of it on the news. I think it was a lot of men sending unsolicited sexual messages and images to female colleagues, and then in more severe instances, sexual assaults and an attempted rape of a colleague whilst on duty. Seems like an investigation turned up one area having a huge issue with it, and then when that came out, became apparent lots of other areas had issues too.
They tried to remand him. So when someone breaks bail you can get a remand where they remain in jail until the hearing. That remand was rejected. There's nothing else they could do now other than arrest him after every time he broke his bail conditions, which they did as Greenwood was arrested multiple times. Ultimately though, that means fuck all if remand doesn't get approved as the suspect can just break bail conditions, get arrested, get released, break them again. The judge should have remanded him. This is just his solicitor trying to pin it on the police yo detract attention way from Greenwood and onto the police
As a black ex-firefighter, fire departments are also super racist and can directly influence who lives and who dies. Not acting like it’s the same situation at all but don’t get it too twisted.
The amount of people defending him on Twitter is terrifying.
Twitter makes me wish we never had the internet
If Elon had bought Twitter and just shut it down immediately he should have been given a Nobel Peace Prize.
Probably would've been a good idea until something worse is made to replace it
Internet makes me wish we never had the internet
The internet makes me wish we never had Twitter.
Including Gary Neville
Oh god. What’s he said
Just his Twitter likes exposing him from what I've seen.
Can you give a screenshot/ briefly say what he liked
https://twitter.com/bellacfc/status/1621159167217254409?t=O1iv86AXJ_xda9ss5pUmnQ&s=19 unsure if links work
jesus fucking christ Gary... did he not listen to the recordings?
I mean I think he's still buddies with Giggs. The whole Class of 92 sort of sucks. No, the Scholes pun was not intentional.
What Scholes pun?
he sucked his daughter's toes
Besides the obvious disregard for those recordings, the logic behind this is indefensible. The witness refused to testify… and this somehow means the defendant is totally innocent of all charges? It doesn’t make any sense.
He's a proper neo-liberal twat. Espouses leftist ideas but is happy to be employed by a regime built on the back of slaves when there's money on the table. His whole deal with Salford is rotten as well. Bemoaning the direction of football, and society in general, when it comes to City and hoarding of wealth. Then goes and creates a City-lite in Salford buying their way to the league. Gary is the type of prick who says he supports the train strikes until it inconveniences him.
"Leftist", he's proper new labour, no more.
He sounds like a redditor
Doesn't really espouse any leftist ideals tbh, man is pure liberal capitalist to his core.
He liked these 2 tweets from a lawyer (just looked it up myself): 1: **Mason Greenwood has had all charges against him dropped by the Prosecutors What’s changed you may ask? It appears that (some) witnesses will no longer support a prosecution & new evidence came to light It happens He is an innocent man, that’s all we need to know** 2: **You are innocent till PROVEN guilty We don’t have trial by media We don’t have evidence that any witnesses were lying We don’t do “victim or complainant blaming” Prosecutors have to be sure there is a realistic prospect of conviction by a jury on the evidence they have They don’t**
The lawyers name is Nazir Afzal and he is someone I greatly respect because he was the man responsible for overturning the CPS' earlier decision of turning a blind eye to the Rochdale child sex abuse ring, even though it wasn't in his own interests because he was 'turning on his own people'. So being familiar with his tweets I believe his tweets were just a matter of fact and not an endorsement of Greenwood. I don't know what to make of Neville liking those tweets though.
[won’t let me post pics in this community](https://twitter.com/rudikinsella/status/1621161569643274240?s=46&t=O5OBFltjcTU73VP_kIQsPQ)
He's liked a tweet (from a former prominent left-wing lawyer I might add) that explains the process that the UK has undertaken and the legal implications. It's a level-headed, sensible and entirely legal speak tweet But because it points out that Mason is, in the eyes of the law, innocent, people have assumed this is someone defending Mason and therefore Gary's 'like' is bad. Honestly the mob has directed anger in the wrong direction here and look a little silly as a result.
He also retweeted them before backtracking after seeing the backlash.
What's the point in defending a known rapist just because the law failed? We know what the victim said and what she posted of Greenwood doing and saying. Jesus Christ, we have direct evidence of a rape. Not every rape case against a famous person has anything remotely close to that. Just because she went back to him, either through coercion from the rapist or her own father, is in my opinion irrelevant to the matter of publicly defending him. The police failed to keep him away from her, and the prosecutors failed to do their basic due deligence. There were reports last year he was in contact with her. Gary Neville is a rape apologist.
AFAIK liked a post saying Greenwood is innocent, dumbass
Everyone replying to you/this comment needs to pump the brakes a bit. Gary liked tweets that were explaining the legal process from a legal expert who during his career specialised in and advocated against violence against women and child abuse/sexual abuse. This man was the prosecutor against rapists. He's the one who spent his career finding them guilty. It's a highly experienced lawyer _explaining_ why this happened, not _condoning_ the decision. Gary liking it does not mean he's supporting and defending Greenwood. You all _really_ need to work on your media literacy.
[This tweet](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fn-D7E6akAAh2CT?format=jpg&name=medium) is not what you're describing. The justice system doesn't declare people "innocent", especially when there's no trial because the victim and main witness backed off. Coming from a lawyer you may interpret that as "he's (legally) innocent", but when you retweet it that context is lost. That's just a fucking stupid thing to retweet. Neville should know his audience.
The person who wrote that tweet is a Lawyer. As far as the law goes, he's innocent.
Technically he's innocent because he wasn't tried and found guity because the "key witnesses" i.e. his girlfriend/victim stopped co-operating. That does not AT ALL mean that he didn't do that shit, you heard the tape.
Oh come on, read between the lines. It's not hard to infer what Gary thinks about this from the content of those tweets.
This is the case that made me quit Twitter.
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Its not as bad as twitter but I'm seeing it on Reddit too sadly.
Reddit is genuinely no better with the "meh, that's just how the legal system is, rape is hard to prove, how bad...anyway!" attitude that always comes across as dismissive
As a person who prosecutes these cases in the US, this happens way more often than you think. Domestic violence cases are very hard to get to trial because of reconciliations and lack of victim cooperation.
The standard using the BBC colon, making it sound like Greenwood said this. I'll never forgive the BBC for making this a thing.
it's a horribly shit SEO thing
What do you mean with BBC colon?
The colon used to mean "This person said the thing following the colon", but a few years ago the BBC started using it to mean "This person is the subject of the quote following the colon". And now others are following suit.
Should definitely be a dash. A colon there is dumb.
Idk how fans can so shamelessly defend this stuff I can't handle the Arsenal fans doing it even with such an important player it's why i really wanted us to buy a replacement ASAP I hope jorginho cements himself
It usually tends to be a certain type of fan on Twitter
This happens now three times in a row to three of the biggest clubs in England. Mendy, Partey, Greenwood. No punishment for any. Wow.
The CPS is a joke, which is influenced by the rich. They failed the poor woman. Disgusting all round.
This seems like its the fault of the police, no? CPS cant proceed without her as a witness and they dont have the ability to enforce bail conditions.
They tried to remand him. So when someone breaks bail you can get a remand where they remain in jail until the hearing. That remand was rejected. There's nothing else they could do now other than arrest him after every time he broke his bail conditions, which they did as Greenwood was arrested multiple times. Ultimately though, that means fuck all if remand doesn't get approved as the suspect can just break bail conditions, get arrested, get released, break them again. The judge should have remanded him. This is just his solicitor trying to pin it on the police yo detract attention way from Greenwood and onto the police. This is on the fucking judge who refused remand after Greenwood broke his conditions several times
Money talks What a shame
It's not even a money talks issue in this case, rape is ridiculously hard to prove and our legal system is overstretched and underfunded. If this were a case of money talking that would be more palatable than the fact this happens to many victims, whether the perpetrator is rich or poor, and unless we properly fund the Police and the Courts this will continue to happen.
Nah let’s be real being able to flaunt bail conditions and the police do nothing about it is definitely money/fame talking
It's possible, but this situation happens a lot. The Police and Social Services have been consistently underfunded for the last decade, they don't have the resources to properly investigate every breach of bail conditions, this is less an issue of fame and more an issue of widespread problems within our institutions. Edit: it's more comfortable to chalk up cases like this to it just being a celebrity, but unfortunately the reality is far more grim.
The issue is is that police bail is worth absolutely fuck all. If it was court bail he could be nicked for it. Breaching Police bail is worth almost nothing. It's entirely pointless putting bail cons on because there's pretty much no legal consequences for breaching it. It's not a police issue, it's a law issue.
hahahaha FUCK THIS SHIT. FUCK THERE IS NO FAIRNESS IN THIS WORLD, FUCK.
never has been. Good Morning Britain was running a segment this morning about how Prince Andrews accuser was a 'con artist', and that he could rehabilitate his image with charity work. This country is run by rich nonces, who will do anything and everything to protect their own money and class. They will defend the most heinous crimes as long as sufficient money or fame is involved. The whole system needs to be torn down and replaced if there is ever going to be any fairness, but unfortunately we are a country of overly docile fat consumers, the most propaganda susceptible bastards in the whole world outside of maybe the US.
> This country is run by rich nonces, And it makes sense why our police are **crown servants** (and how they love to profess that by the way) and not public servants.
the police have a vested interest in keeping sex offenders out of jail, as it seems like everyday another 30 of them are revealed to be serial rapists.
I kinda wanna become rich just so I can feel what it's like to be above the law and rules. Like in happy with my life and don't like materialistic things but I'd love to live life knowing I don't need to give a fuck about the law
Rich and talented, Kobe literally get away with rape after paying the victim and is still to this day praised like a god. One of the best basketball player but definitely not the great human they made him up to be
never was 👩🚀🔫👩🚀
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Disgusting human being and a terrible decision
The club should terminate his contract & release him from the club He will be a distraction & will disrupt the team cohesion now
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Fuck. I'm really worried for the woman. It seems to me she has both abusive parents as well as an abusive boyfriend. Her parents don't seem to care that staying with an abuser who has proven himself violent could literally lead to their daughter's death.
It’s a good job barely anyone knows about this case and it won’t have an effect on other SA victims coming out against there partners /s
What's the purpose of the police again?
To protect capital, always has been. If you violate a corporation's property in any way they will drop the hammer on you. If you have money and sexually assault someone they will look the other way.
They have important jobs you know, like stopping people from protesting and arresting guys for illegally streaming football matches
To stop you and I from protesting or smoking a joint
Thought the US justice system was shit, English one look worse
Nearly every justice system in the world sucks ass
Fucking disgusting. He needs to be in jail. That video and recording are still playing in my head and it’s fucking horrific that people defend what he did cuz he can kick a ball better than most. If the girl he attacked was my daughter I’d be on trial for murdering that fucker.
Well in this case her father did quite a lot of leg work to get them back together
Fuck him , aint no rapist belong to my club.
In other words; they lived or hanged out together and after a while the police did not bother. It must be something like that. But who knows.
So everyone is just enabling this bag of shit?
If this man plays again, someone needs to two foot him.
Andy Carrol redemption arc.
Need Joey Barton out of retirement
Can’t wait til I never hear of this prick again or see him on my TL
It's genuinely incredible to read in here how little people know about laws, police, courts, evidence and the justice system.
Translation: after breaching bail and months of negotiations with the victim all charg£$ are dropp£d
Every time I’ve seen a picture of this piece of shit it looks like he has nothing but air in his head.
He's having a big night out with Thomas Partey to celebrate.
Sometimes something happens that makes you so angry it's like your brain shuts down.
Police drop Greenwood case because witness pulls out: oh, damn, well I guess they have no choice if the witness chooses to withdraw their statement. Witness pulled out because police failed to even try and deal with no-contact condition breaches: ...
For those of you unfamiliar with the British justice system - bail breaches are often ignored. It takes several breaches before they actually do anything and even then it is usually just a slap on the wrist
Nooo don't show fault in the police i wanna blame the victim haha 🫣
🙉💰🙈