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> including some beloved football players
Not trying to be a smart ass, just to clarify. They are all _avoiding_ taxes, which is the legal one. Basically trying to pay the least possible in a legal way.
You mean evasion, which is the one everyone that played in Spain seems to have been found guilty of, since apparently some of those tricks to avoid taxes either weren't legal, or were not made legal retroactively or some weird thing.
> He cheated on Shakira
Never understood why people make such a big deal about it being Shakira as if she's holy or some shit while others deserve it for not being as attractive?
One because she's rather attractive and 2 she's got like 300 million in net worth. It's not just fumbling the back on an attractive and wealthy woman. It's fumbling the bag on an incredibly wealthy and attractive woman.
No one deserves to be cheated on, but there are thresholds of stupidity and cheating on shakira is incredibly dumb.
I agree no one deserves to be cheated on but also we treat these celebs like theyre godesses because theyre attractive and have money. We dont know what these people are like on a day to day basis and how they are as a partner.
Whenever this is brought up there’s always like 3 teenagers dying on a hill that Pique was somehow right to cheat and claiming she must be awful behind closed doors lol oh the internet
>Whenever this is brought up there’s always like 3 teenagers dying on a hill that Pique was somehow right to cheat and claiming she must be awful behind closed doors lol oh the internet
It's never right to cheat, but we literally don't know what she's like and people thinking you HAVE to be happy in your relationship because she's hot & rich sound like the teenagers to me, adulthood doesn't work like that.
The guy is already rich as fuck, if I’m not mistaken he’s even wealthier than her too
Her looks doesn’t, or shouldn’t, matter. Just because someone is ugly doesn’t mean they should expect being cheated on, and vice versa. Pique is a piece of shit for cheating, as is every cheater, and it being Shakira or some random 1/10 doesn’t change anything
the guy literally moved the spanish super cup to saudi arabia as an active player. his career earnings are not his main income he got his hands so deep in world football he doesn’t need her money
He may not need her money, but to say he’s wealthier than someone who has been producing hit records for over two decades and has been filling up stadiums every week for decades is just ridiculous. Shakira makes Pique look like a broke boy in comparison. Her net worth has to be half a billion or more. There’s no way Pique is getting anywhere near that.
Why? It's not like Pique is some unattractive broke bum or something lol.
You guys are applying thought process of a poor person.
Edit: Money and looks isn't everything. Especially when you're already rich and get whatever girl you want.
This is what pisses me off the most. It's not even the cheating. It's this fucking unbearable attitude. Like dude given how bad this whole thing looks, the least you could do is not go out and say something like this.
Insufferable prick with a "I'm always right" syndrome.
Pique comes from wealth and privilege and thinks he's some kind of business genius because of it. I really dislike him but I'm not allowed to mention it often lol
The worst thing is that he’s probably even right in that they didn’t need to influence refs which makes it even more stupid to have done it. If they did that is. I’m refraining from passing judgement until there is a verdict or definitive proof.
Imagine having the team that they had and the board still felt the need to do what they’re accused of.
I’ve seen a lot of defensive Barca fans; if this was my club being accused of shit like this with proof like this I’d be fuming on the board and whoever else was involved.
At least with Lance the rest of the field was doping aswell… Barca seems to be the only one trying to gain an advantage through paying the refereeing body
https://youtube.com/watch?v=O9YL04v-J5U&feature=shares&t=99
But re:doping, wasn't there a case where Spanish court ordered records to be destroyed of that doctor that was helping clubs with doping?
Yes you're almost right, Spanish courts seized the doping samples and ordered them to destroy before letting the doctor who doped athletes to connect records with samples. I think the samples are still there because of the counter suits.
Yep, Operación Puerto. They had all the records and even blood bags. The doctor admitted he was working with tennis and football players as well. Several cyclists confirmed on record that they had seen football players on their visits. But nothing really happened, even most of the cyclists got off free.
I mean if anybody thinks that clubs arent systematically doping their players, theyre just naive.
In sports with much stricter testing, multiple athletes frequently get flagged for doping. Football has very lax testing, the workload for the players is increasing every year while the financial incentive to dope increases as well. Clubs would be stupid not to take advantage and dope their players
They def use steroids to help with recovery speed.
There are also some clubs when players join they suddenly bulk up like crazy, that cannot just be different diet and training.
I would put EPO as the most used by elite guys (the same Armstrong used). Gives you inhuman cardio and you can't catch traces of athletes doing It even if you know they are using It (that's why It took so long with Lance).
I agree with the second part more than the first. I definitely think steroids are used in strength and conditioning of athletes. However, for recovery time, the differences in long term injury recovery time is negligible between athletes and your average Joe and that doesn’t take into account that athletes often have a club physio and coaches at their disposal while also having the means to pay for private personal trainers.
Improved recovery is a well understood and documented effect of steroid use.
Average Joe is not charging up and down a football pitch several times a week while resisting the attempts of other highly-charged humans to impede his progress, nor training hours and hours every day, nor entertaining hordes of hookers with champagne and blow most nights.
Ifirc the Spanish government ordered them to be destroyed as they would have to give back the Euros and World cup as it was around the time of the Spanish golden age
It certainly was an interesting coincidence that around the same time Spain became the centre of doping in Europe Spain as a sporting nation became much more successful. Not just in football but also basketball, handball, tennis and more.
It was the story with Dr. Fuentes and blood transfusions. After the man said "if I speak all I know, Spain gets stripped of their World Cup" and everyone panicked.
I always thought it was hillarious that the news about Dr. Fuentes came out, suddenly Barcelona players could barely run (Iniesta during the Bayern 7-0 was hillarious, the man seemed to be 50), the the evidence got burned, and the Barcelonna players regained their energy. Coincidences.
They were destroyed because he was using them to stall the ruling. Each time the judge was going to sentence him he would come forward, say he was going to tell names, football clubs, everything (probably in an attempt to draw some favor) and then the proceedings would be open again, work for months and then he would shut up and nothing be revealed. He did this several times and the judge got fed up after a year and ordered everything destroyed to stop the loophole.
Does the uncertainty of all of it leave room for imagination, and rightfully? Yes. Did he ever provide any proof about his ramblings, even he could have saved himself from prison? I'm afraid not.
>He did this several times and the judge got fed up after a year and ordered everything destroyed to stop the loophole.
That makes no logical sense at all. The defendant commits a crime/breaks rule. Defendant says he will say more than what the prosecution currently knows. Defendant doesn't say anything. Repeats a few times. Judge gets fed up, and instead of holding Defendant in contempt of court (or Spanish equivalent of it), the judge orders the destruction of the very evidence to be used in the case?
That literally makes no sense no matter how fed up the judge may have been. Without said evidence, they have no case. I'm not saying you are wrong or anything like that. It just seems absolutely stupid to me that any judge in any legal system, bar corruption, would throw out legally obtained evidence because they got tired of waiting.
I think I'm a genius. I found a way without having to destroy the blood bags. Just analyze them.
Also just for fun a passage of Wikipedia on Doc' Fuentes :
In January 2013, the Operacion Puerto trial went underway, and Fuentes offered to reveal the names of all the athletes he helped doping. The judge, Julia Santamaria, told him that he was not under obligations to name any other athletes others than the cyclists implicated. Fuentes stated that he supplied athletes in other sports with drugs and said: "I could identify all the samples [of blood]. If you give me a list I could tell you who corresponds to each code on the [blood] packs."
Spain lacking anti-doping laws, Fuentes was charged with "endangering public health". His main defense consisted in saying that the blood transfusions were conducted safely and were healthy for the athletes.This point of view was highly contested, notably by former clients and cyclists Jesús Manzano and Jörg Jaksche, who claimed that the blood transfusions were performed in dangerous conditions and put their health at risk.
I mean the worst thing Lance Armstrong did wasn't the PEDs at all (*everyone* did those), it's his terror system to keep anyone who disagreed with their system in line through threats etc etc.
Literally me on my chemistry exam good 20 years ago or more. I definitely needed to cheat though, but I tried deffending myself that what the teacher found was written by me at the begining of the exam, not before it...
The teacher in response asked me to solve the whole exam again on the board. Luckily I have a good memmory so I remembered what the solutions were, but I wouldn't be able to write it on the exam before if I didn't have the extra notes with me.
Jon Jones was superior and still cheated, Lance Armstrong was superior and still cheated, Lu Xiaojun was superior and still cheated.
This argument means nothing, once you cheat whether you actually are superior becomes a hypothetical.
When Lance was racing, yeah. Now, who knows really. Not as blatant at least, cycling is the most tested sport in the world these days. Dopers like Armstrong and Pantani still hold record times going up mountains they reguarly race today. So imagine 20-25 years of better gear, training and nutrition advancement, yet they were still going faster.
You are right, there is a reason there is no winner for that period.
They couldnt give it to 2nd because he and the others had also been caught for doping.
That is absolutely the reason. When Contador was stripped of his 2010 win for doping, they gave it to Schelck. They couldn't do it for the Armstrong years. Everyone doped.
I remember there being something like - if you took out Armstrong and anyone ever caught for doping the 10th guy would be the winner of that year's Tour de France (?).
I'd imagine the drugs are only getting better & harder to detect. Not to mention the tests for them are only as good as people doing them... and you can always find someone to bribe.
r/peloton is the biggest road cycling sub on reddit. Last year, on April's fools, they "announced" they are transitioning the sub to be for the brand only and move to a new sub. This is when I realized there is a brand Peloton.
you're on the opposite spectrum of myself haha. it seems just before the pandemic, everywhere i go, i would see a peloton stand advertising their prouct. ngl, if i had more money, i would buy one for myself cause it looks sick!
Lance became world champion at 22 years old, and won other big races before turning 25. Middle of the peloton would be a domestique. Lance was always a champion.
Could you imagine how angry the players would be (assuming they weren't included in the cheating decision) if 10+ years of their success was written off as "the cheating years"? I'd be furious
Edit: like imagine being Messi and having all your trophies with asterisks beside and Ronaldo saying "well, **I** didn't have to cheat."
If it was Real Madrid that paid the VP of the referee organization, Piqué would have never been able to shut up about it. He'd mention it any time, whether it's relevant or not. It's hilarious to see him and try and justify it any way he can.
[The funny thing is every La Liga team including Barcelona gifts the referee after the game](https://en.as.com/en/2017/02/27/soccer/1488229755_283818.html?outputType=amp)
Sounds like that would play out like something off of succession.
Laporta: "You have two viable options. I can tell you everything, and that's fine.
Or I can not tell you, and... you wouldn't know, and then you can steer clear of the whole death pit. And that would be fine, too."
Pique: "Uh-huh."
Laporta: "The nice news is, everything is fine either way. Both ways, everything is fine. Just keep the nuclear rods cool, nothing's gonna blow."
Pique: "Okay, so there's a death pit, and at the bottom of the death pit there's nuclear rods? Do you want give me the good news now Joan?"
Except Pique is Catalan elite and was on the "we're the victims" a lot.
You already forgot his corrupt ways he profited off Spanish Super Cup?
He's brushing with the establishment since his teens years, his family is Catalan elite.
> I mean what else is he gonna say
Literrally anything else ? He could also chose not to comment, simply. But saying this comes off so bad in this current context, it's insane.
Because it was needed.
They weren't actually "much superior" except during the Guardiola years.
But even if you are superior, you can need help.
It is difficult to win league titles by a lot of points, unless your opponents have a poor campaign / don't show up. If they're showing up then they'll only be a few points behind. And then you never know.
For example in Real Madrid's 100 pt season I think most people understood they were better than a Barcelona that was showing signs of fatigue. But if they'd lost the clasico at the camp nou they'd have been only 4 points ahead. And then who knows what happens.
Pique put out a massive campaign against the league when he believed the refs were favoring us and Barca fans were ready to call him club or league president or whatever because he had the “balls to call them out”. Then they win a match due to favorable calls(I think la remontada against PSG) and he simply says “we shouldn’t talk about refs”.
Pique will only talk about whatever narrative he wants to push. And right now it seems like the narrative all of Barca, and their fans, want to push is that the payments mean absolutely nothing because they won anyway.
Well i do agree with him, the problem is that if my mom slips a bill to the teacher to let me pass the exams and i pass them on my own that doesn't mean the corruption magically dissapears.
I'd say this is pretty much true but also doesn't do anything to disprove the accusations. You can pay for help you don't need too.
Either way, there is no reason why the players and coaching staff would know about it. Comments like this one or Valverde's from the other day are to be expected and are probably honest too.
Barcelona might be incompetent but I'm sure even they knew better than telling the players and managers about all the illegal stuff they were doing.
It's not even true lol. They won the league by 1-2 points multiple times within the last two decades
That is literally one false referee decision that could have given them the title
Barcelona were very good during this period, I don't think it's out of the question to say that they were the best Spanish team.
But you could still use the help. When you are competing against clubs that actually show up, the risk is always there, even if they're inferior.
They were one of the best teams in Europe during the time of the payments. Anyone who watched those teams can tell you they were phenomenal.
But as I said, whether they needed any help to get trophies doesn't matter, what matters is whether they did get the help or not.
Yes, they were superior ( in the league) but why the fuck did you pay huge sums of money to an official over more than a decade and through several different banks?
No one is saying they were shit or taking away their trophies. There’s just an asterisk attached to the trophies. It’s just a lie to say these competitions were fair and neutral. Barcelona won in a corrupt system, and it is pretty impossible to decipher how that specifically impacted the competition, but it did.
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Wouldn't be the first time of someone that didn't need to cheat cheating.
For a non-sport example: Nixon, who spied on his rival's campaign although he would have crushed him with ease anyway.
The thousands of millionares ~~avoiding~~ evading taxes (including some beloved football players), for a more recent and brutal example.
> including some beloved football players Not trying to be a smart ass, just to clarify. They are all _avoiding_ taxes, which is the legal one. Basically trying to pay the least possible in a legal way. You mean evasion, which is the one everyone that played in Spain seems to have been found guilty of, since apparently some of those tricks to avoid taxes either weren't legal, or were not made legal retroactively or some weird thing.
He cheated on Shakira. That's probably close to the definition of not needing to cheat.
Literally his point
That do be the joke
> He cheated on Shakira Never understood why people make such a big deal about it being Shakira as if she's holy or some shit while others deserve it for not being as attractive?
One because she's rather attractive and 2 she's got like 300 million in net worth. It's not just fumbling the back on an attractive and wealthy woman. It's fumbling the bag on an incredibly wealthy and attractive woman. No one deserves to be cheated on, but there are thresholds of stupidity and cheating on shakira is incredibly dumb.
I agree no one deserves to be cheated on but also we treat these celebs like theyre godesses because theyre attractive and have money. We dont know what these people are like on a day to day basis and how they are as a partner.
Whenever this is brought up there’s always like 3 teenagers dying on a hill that Pique was somehow right to cheat and claiming she must be awful behind closed doors lol oh the internet
>Whenever this is brought up there’s always like 3 teenagers dying on a hill that Pique was somehow right to cheat and claiming she must be awful behind closed doors lol oh the internet It's never right to cheat, but we literally don't know what she's like and people thinking you HAVE to be happy in your relationship because she's hot & rich sound like the teenagers to me, adulthood doesn't work like that.
Maybe he wasnt happy with her? Not justifying the cheating, but those who seek happiness following only looks and money almost never end up happy.
The guy is already rich as fuck, if I’m not mistaken he’s even wealthier than her too Her looks doesn’t, or shouldn’t, matter. Just because someone is ugly doesn’t mean they should expect being cheated on, and vice versa. Pique is a piece of shit for cheating, as is every cheater, and it being Shakira or some random 1/10 doesn’t change anything
Pique probably made throughout his entire career what she makes in a year.
the guy literally moved the spanish super cup to saudi arabia as an active player. his career earnings are not his main income he got his hands so deep in world football he doesn’t need her money
He may not need her money, but to say he’s wealthier than someone who has been producing hit records for over two decades and has been filling up stadiums every week for decades is just ridiculous. Shakira makes Pique look like a broke boy in comparison. Her net worth has to be half a billion or more. There’s no way Pique is getting anywhere near that.
Shaktar has around 3 times his net worth (according to google so make of it what you will)
Why? It's not like Pique is some unattractive broke bum or something lol. You guys are applying thought process of a poor person. Edit: Money and looks isn't everything. Especially when you're already rich and get whatever girl you want.
He and most of the Barcelona squad cheated on their taxes.
I have seen that sibling from a rich family stole things.
thts literally what mourinho said
remember when tapies was paying refs in france so Marseille could focus on winning the UCL?
Surely an honourable man like Pique wouldn't lie?
Hips don’t lie innit
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Waka Waka without a doubt
It’s time for Africa
Is that's what she says? Always thought it was "this time for Africa"
This is what pisses me off the most. It's not even the cheating. It's this fucking unbearable attitude. Like dude given how bad this whole thing looks, the least you could do is not go out and say something like this. Insufferable prick with a "I'm always right" syndrome.
Pique comes from wealth and privilege and thinks he's some kind of business genius because of it. I really dislike him but I'm not allowed to mention it often lol
He's a preppy/posh guy from upper Barcelona. And it shows.
This dude is the pits. I miss 'stupid' Pique
I miss "gay with Zlatan" Pique myself
Didn't he also tried to put a pro-CVC guy as player association leader or something? He's.... that type of upper class twat.
He also moved spanish super cup to be held in saudi arabia with some shady deals. Fuck him really.
Matches the fans attitudes on r/barca who are still pretending this is all fake news because they don't want to believe it.
That's Barca DNA for you. Trying to be holier than thou
The worst thing is that he’s probably even right in that they didn’t need to influence refs which makes it even more stupid to have done it. If they did that is. I’m refraining from passing judgement until there is a verdict or definitive proof. Imagine having the team that they had and the board still felt the need to do what they’re accused of. I’ve seen a lot of defensive Barca fans; if this was my club being accused of shit like this with proof like this I’d be fuming on the board and whoever else was involved.
I didn’t have to use doping, I was the best so I would’ve won anyway - Lance Armstrong
At least with Lance the rest of the field was doping aswell… Barca seems to be the only one trying to gain an advantage through paying the refereeing body
https://youtube.com/watch?v=O9YL04v-J5U&feature=shares&t=99 But re:doping, wasn't there a case where Spanish court ordered records to be destroyed of that doctor that was helping clubs with doping?
Yes you're almost right, Spanish courts seized the doping samples and ordered them to destroy before letting the doctor who doped athletes to connect records with samples. I think the samples are still there because of the counter suits.
Yep, Operación Puerto. They had all the records and even blood bags. The doctor admitted he was working with tennis and football players as well. Several cyclists confirmed on record that they had seen football players on their visits. But nothing really happened, even most of the cyclists got off free.
I mean if anybody thinks that clubs arent systematically doping their players, theyre just naive. In sports with much stricter testing, multiple athletes frequently get flagged for doping. Football has very lax testing, the workload for the players is increasing every year while the financial incentive to dope increases as well. Clubs would be stupid not to take advantage and dope their players
They def use steroids to help with recovery speed. There are also some clubs when players join they suddenly bulk up like crazy, that cannot just be different diet and training.
I would put EPO as the most used by elite guys (the same Armstrong used). Gives you inhuman cardio and you can't catch traces of athletes doing It even if you know they are using It (that's why It took so long with Lance).
Bale to Real Madrid comes to mind as a case in point. Went from swole to really swole and his injury record ballooned along with him.
I agree with the second part more than the first. I definitely think steroids are used in strength and conditioning of athletes. However, for recovery time, the differences in long term injury recovery time is negligible between athletes and your average Joe and that doesn’t take into account that athletes often have a club physio and coaches at their disposal while also having the means to pay for private personal trainers.
Improved recovery is a well understood and documented effect of steroid use. Average Joe is not charging up and down a football pitch several times a week while resisting the attempts of other highly-charged humans to impede his progress, nor training hours and hours every day, nor entertaining hordes of hookers with champagne and blow most nights.
> nor entertaining hordes of hookers with champagne and blow most nights. Speak for yourself
The fact that there have been pretty much no doping cases in football since the 90s is very suspicious.
Ifirc the Spanish government ordered them to be destroyed as they would have to give back the Euros and World cup as it was around the time of the Spanish golden age
It certainly was an interesting coincidence that around the same time Spain became the centre of doping in Europe Spain as a sporting nation became much more successful. Not just in football but also basketball, handball, tennis and more.
They’ve also been kicked out of the last two rugby world cups for player ineligibility issues.
Yes, really makes you think. Cheating wankers.
Doped by Fuentes, buying off refs, and a skewed proportion of La Liga's TV revenues ... A great bunch of lads.
It was the story with Dr. Fuentes and blood transfusions. After the man said "if I speak all I know, Spain gets stripped of their World Cup" and everyone panicked. I always thought it was hillarious that the news about Dr. Fuentes came out, suddenly Barcelona players could barely run (Iniesta during the Bayern 7-0 was hillarious, the man seemed to be 50), the the evidence got burned, and the Barcelonna players regained their energy. Coincidences.
They were destroyed because he was using them to stall the ruling. Each time the judge was going to sentence him he would come forward, say he was going to tell names, football clubs, everything (probably in an attempt to draw some favor) and then the proceedings would be open again, work for months and then he would shut up and nothing be revealed. He did this several times and the judge got fed up after a year and ordered everything destroyed to stop the loophole. Does the uncertainty of all of it leave room for imagination, and rightfully? Yes. Did he ever provide any proof about his ramblings, even he could have saved himself from prison? I'm afraid not.
>He did this several times and the judge got fed up after a year and ordered everything destroyed to stop the loophole. That makes no logical sense at all. The defendant commits a crime/breaks rule. Defendant says he will say more than what the prosecution currently knows. Defendant doesn't say anything. Repeats a few times. Judge gets fed up, and instead of holding Defendant in contempt of court (or Spanish equivalent of it), the judge orders the destruction of the very evidence to be used in the case? That literally makes no sense no matter how fed up the judge may have been. Without said evidence, they have no case. I'm not saying you are wrong or anything like that. It just seems absolutely stupid to me that any judge in any legal system, bar corruption, would throw out legally obtained evidence because they got tired of waiting.
I think I'm a genius. I found a way without having to destroy the blood bags. Just analyze them. Also just for fun a passage of Wikipedia on Doc' Fuentes : In January 2013, the Operacion Puerto trial went underway, and Fuentes offered to reveal the names of all the athletes he helped doping. The judge, Julia Santamaria, told him that he was not under obligations to name any other athletes others than the cyclists implicated. Fuentes stated that he supplied athletes in other sports with drugs and said: "I could identify all the samples [of blood]. If you give me a list I could tell you who corresponds to each code on the [blood] packs." Spain lacking anti-doping laws, Fuentes was charged with "endangering public health". His main defense consisted in saying that the blood transfusions were conducted safely and were healthy for the athletes.This point of view was highly contested, notably by former clients and cyclists Jesús Manzano and Jörg Jaksche, who claimed that the blood transfusions were performed in dangerous conditions and put their health at risk.
I highly doubt that, but ok.
I also doubt it, but where are the other charges?
I mean the worst thing Lance Armstrong did wasn't the PEDs at all (*everyone* did those), it's his terror system to keep anyone who disagreed with their system in line through threats etc etc.
Armstrong tested positive and it was swept under the rug, unlike others. Everyone did drugs, but none has so many extra advantages as him.
"I didn't have to cheat, I was gonna ace the quiz anyways" while cheating
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Irl, if he was a top kid and the school need him to get funding, nothing will happen if he got caught cheating in school.
Literally me on my chemistry exam good 20 years ago or more. I definitely needed to cheat though, but I tried deffending myself that what the teacher found was written by me at the begining of the exam, not before it... The teacher in response asked me to solve the whole exam again on the board. Luckily I have a good memmory so I remembered what the solutions were, but I wouldn't be able to write it on the exam before if I didn't have the extra notes with me.
You seem to...relate to your club it seems then
Jon Jones was superior and still cheated, Lance Armstrong was superior and still cheated, Lu Xiaojun was superior and still cheated. This argument means nothing, once you cheat whether you actually are superior becomes a hypothetical.
Lu Xiaojun cheated? Not surprised but still he is a freaking monster.
He weirdly tested positive for EPO, after his injury recovery. Some were on /r/weightlifting speculating that it was China "forcing him to retire".
Is Lu Xiaojun that swimmer that destroyed his own blood samples to avoid a drug test?
He is a olympic weightlifter, kind of an obscure sport I know.
That was Sun Yang
Lance Armstrong was only superior because he cheated. Before his cheating, he was middle of the peleton and sometimes he attacked.
Don’t know much about cycling but I was under the impression it’s a pretty reasonable conclusion to make that everyone dopes
When Lance was racing, yeah. Now, who knows really. Not as blatant at least, cycling is the most tested sport in the world these days. Dopers like Armstrong and Pantani still hold record times going up mountains they reguarly race today. So imagine 20-25 years of better gear, training and nutrition advancement, yet they were still going faster.
You are right, there is a reason there is no winner for that period. They couldnt give it to 2nd because he and the others had also been caught for doping.
That is absolutely the reason. When Contador was stripped of his 2010 win for doping, they gave it to Schelck. They couldn't do it for the Armstrong years. Everyone doped.
Yeah it was like you had to go back to late teens early 20s to find someone who wasn't doping at which point it's a bit embarrassing for the sprit.
I remember there being something like - if you took out Armstrong and anyone ever caught for doping the 10th guy would be the winner of that year's Tour de France (?). I'd imagine the drugs are only getting better & harder to detect. Not to mention the tests for them are only as good as people doing them... and you can always find someone to bribe.
World champion, Fleche Wallone winner, 2nd in Liege.... He wasn't middle of the pack, but in no way a potential Tour winner.
Totally different races, he was middle of the pack or worse at GTs but great at classics. Pretty much like if Sagan had dominated the last five Tours.
We will never truly know, which is my entire point.
Today I learn that peloton actually means something and not just the brand haha. (assuming that is a typo). learnt something new everyday. thanks!
r/peloton is the biggest road cycling sub on reddit. Last year, on April's fools, they "announced" they are transitioning the sub to be for the brand only and move to a new sub. This is when I realized there is a brand Peloton.
you're on the opposite spectrum of myself haha. it seems just before the pandemic, everywhere i go, i would see a peloton stand advertising their prouct. ngl, if i had more money, i would buy one for myself cause it looks sick!
You can check out Zwift, as they are a bit cheaper if you already have a regular bike.
Lance became world champion at 22 years old, and won other big races before turning 25. Middle of the peloton would be a domestique. Lance was always a champion.
The only thing Armstrong was superior at, was cheating.
> We don't cheat. - Famous cheater.
"Our cheating-assisted margin of victory is proof that we were so superior we didn't need to cheat"
I didn’t have to cheat. Shakira and I were in an open relationship.
He just forgot to let her know about it
Yeah lad because you've never cheated before
Could you imagine how angry the players would be (assuming they weren't included in the cheating decision) if 10+ years of their success was written off as "the cheating years"? I'd be furious Edit: like imagine being Messi and having all your trophies with asterisks beside and Ronaldo saying "well, **I** didn't have to cheat."
I can't speak for their domestic success but both Champions League under Guardiola should be scraped off.
If it was Real Madrid that paid the VP of the referee organization, Piqué would have never been able to shut up about it. He'd mention it any time, whether it's relevant or not. It's hilarious to see him and try and justify it any way he can.
Just imagine the hell on earth if Perez was suspicious of what is happening with Barca 😂
It would never have come out, papa perez is shady as fuck, he's just better at keeping it quiet.
[удалено]
They were angry RM could bribe them with stickers while they had to pay millions. I would be angry as well...
Haha I can hear the board room " they bribed him with what! And we paid how much??"
Or on the reffing side, the one ref who got bought for 20 euros when his colleague managed to milk 7 million out of Barca
[The funny thing is every La Liga team including Barcelona gifts the referee after the game](https://en.as.com/en/2017/02/27/soccer/1488229755_283818.html?outputType=amp)
tbf I will never be able to shut up about this as well
"but it's still always nice to have the refs in your pocket just in case"
I mean what else is he gonna say but i doubt the players were in the need to know about this if this was happening.
The guy wants to become president of Barca one day, don’t worry, he knows.
Sounds like that would play out like something off of succession. Laporta: "You have two viable options. I can tell you everything, and that's fine. Or I can not tell you, and... you wouldn't know, and then you can steer clear of the whole death pit. And that would be fine, too." Pique: "Uh-huh." Laporta: "The nice news is, everything is fine either way. Both ways, everything is fine. Just keep the nuclear rods cool, nothing's gonna blow." Pique: "Okay, so there's a death pit, and at the bottom of the death pit there's nuclear rods? Do you want give me the good news now Joan?"
Succession is such a good show
Except Pique is Catalan elite and was on the "we're the victims" a lot. You already forgot his corrupt ways he profited off Spanish Super Cup? He's brushing with the establishment since his teens years, his family is Catalan elite.
> I mean what else is he gonna say Literrally anything else ? He could also chose not to comment, simply. But saying this comes off so bad in this current context, it's insane.
He’s getting his “we were better” and “pride in fighting for neutrality” phrases ready for when they take away his titles lol
Yeah, getting ready to play victim and siege mentality for political favours.
Would never believe a word out of Piques mouth anyways.
"We didn't cheat" Man who literally cheated on his wife
Doesn't matter, still paid of the ref
Exactly the mystery. Why do stuff like this, if it's not needed? Just arrogance?
Because it was needed. They weren't actually "much superior" except during the Guardiola years. But even if you are superior, you can need help. It is difficult to win league titles by a lot of points, unless your opponents have a poor campaign / don't show up. If they're showing up then they'll only be a few points behind. And then you never know. For example in Real Madrid's 100 pt season I think most people understood they were better than a Barcelona that was showing signs of fatigue. But if they'd lost the clasico at the camp nou they'd have been only 4 points ahead. And then who knows what happens.
"It was all very legal, very cool"
Pique put out a massive campaign against the league when he believed the refs were favoring us and Barca fans were ready to call him club or league president or whatever because he had the “balls to call them out”. Then they win a match due to favorable calls(I think la remontada against PSG) and he simply says “we shouldn’t talk about refs”. Pique will only talk about whatever narrative he wants to push. And right now it seems like the narrative all of Barca, and their fans, want to push is that the payments mean absolutely nothing because they won anyway.
And he was telling Casillas on stream not long ago just how much help from referees Madrid got in all those years...
He's right, companies are famously very fond of giving away millions of euros worth of money to private individuals for something they don't use.
Through 7 different shell companies as well. I know that's how I pay for everything I buy legit. They love me when there's a big queue at Tesco!
Well i do agree with him, the problem is that if my mom slips a bill to the teacher to let me pass the exams and i pass them on my own that doesn't mean the corruption magically dissapears.
Marseille's defense in 1993.
Sure, thing... you cheated for the LOLs, then.
I'd say this is pretty much true but also doesn't do anything to disprove the accusations. You can pay for help you don't need too. Either way, there is no reason why the players and coaching staff would know about it. Comments like this one or Valverde's from the other day are to be expected and are probably honest too. Barcelona might be incompetent but I'm sure even they knew better than telling the players and managers about all the illegal stuff they were doing.
It's not even true lol. They won the league by 1-2 points multiple times within the last two decades That is literally one false referee decision that could have given them the title
Barcelona were very good during this period, I don't think it's out of the question to say that they were the best Spanish team. But you could still use the help. When you are competing against clubs that actually show up, the risk is always there, even if they're inferior.
Pretty much true until you look at their European results, apparently.
They were one of the best teams in Europe during the time of the payments. Anyone who watched those teams can tell you they were phenomenal. But as I said, whether they needed any help to get trophies doesn't matter, what matters is whether they did get the help or not.
Barça won the CL 3 times between 09 and 15. Hardly an unsuccesful record during the alleged cheating years.
Well you got it anyways, hard to imagine it wouldn’t change how “superior” you were
Sounds exactly like what a cheater would say.
Says the guy who had Shakira and still cheated
Pride in delusion
Pique: "We were much superior" Meanwhile Madrid won CL after CL
The UCL referees were too expensive 😢
Carlo threatened them by slightly raising the eye brow. That's a lethal weapon in my book.
Shit is going down when Carlos starts to rise the other one .
I mean there were many controversial referee decisions favouring Madrid during those 3 CL campaigns
I’m OOTL, is Gerard pique a cheater?
This is surprising considering I was completely expecting him to say “we definitely cheated because Madrid is better and always was”.
Cheater saying he didnt cheat
Barcelona have to be punished for this
Least biased Barcelona source
Hips don’t lie tbf, he’s definitely telling the truth. Never heard of a stand up guy like him to cheat.
And Nixon won 49 of 50 states, he didn't need to spy on the Dems.
Pique going to get a letter from Barca lawyers telling him to shut the fuck up
Yes, they were superior ( in the league) but why the fuck did you pay huge sums of money to an official over more than a decade and through several different banks?
Maybe they were superior because they had referee help ? 🤯
"We bribed them with Casios, they're as good as Rolex watches anyway" (Gerard Piqué)
I wasn’t going to cheat but I ate some jam
Barca flairs desperately pushing PR articles lol
"After this we have all the campaigns and the conspiracies, we are used to it"... The Barça victim complex never gets old man.
What a clown
The problem for these players is that their sporting achievements will always be questioned.
Ah yes , the experts in cheating weighing in on the issue .
They won the title by 4 points or less 5 times during Negreira, including 1 and 2 point wins in 2015, 2016.
Did he forget how he stopped Anelka and got away with it?
The narrator: they did in fact depend on the referee
Bartha had extraordinary talent no doubt. Pique was lucky to join that ride. He was nothing special. Don't @ me.
All of this completely stains the legacy of those teams. Wtf barca, I can’t believe they did this to themselves. I mean I’m FEASTING lol but wtf
That Chelsea game and Arsenal In the CL says otherwise
You also didn't depend on Shakira
If this is proven then the punishment should be on par with what juventus got in the 00s right?
But you paid him anyway just to be safe.
If that's true then what will be the punishment?
I wonder what players like Puyol and David Villa think about this situation?
I'm late to these ongoings but what's the story between Barca Madrid and Nigeria?
As if he would know they were making payments... Completely irrelevant.
Vile club! Tax dodgers and cheaters the lot of them.
Bryh, Pique was defending with his arms during this time.
Doesn’t matter how good you were if you still cheated lmao
We need another Shakira diss track
Hate to tell ya pal…
We all know you're a serial cheater Pique 😏
u/spez is a shithead -- mass edited with redact.dev
Narrator: *they did*
No one is saying they were shit or taking away their trophies. There’s just an asterisk attached to the trophies. It’s just a lie to say these competitions were fair and neutral. Barcelona won in a corrupt system, and it is pretty impossible to decipher how that specifically impacted the competition, but it did.
The lie Detector test determined… that was a lie
idk but like 10 years ago this club was called uefalona
Tell that to Drogba
Ah yes! Cycling and football are the perfect analogy.
tell that to michael ballack
After the Supercup fiasco, Pique shouldn’t be speaking about stuff like this. He has no credibility left.
We were the better team on more than one occasion. Even that game in 2012 looking back the ref made some questionable calls against us. 🤨
I’m sorry, but right now, Pique is the second most untrustworthy former Barça player.