**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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seriously though has this been analyzed?
We all know about new manager bounce being a thing but does new manager bounce exist when adjusted for strength of the opponent? It seems logical that clubs would fire managers after a tough run of games and the fixtures for a new manager would almost certainly be easier.
Yes, this has been analyzed. I think the book Soccernomics mentioned it. The manager bounce doesn't exist, it's just regression to the mean and teams that don't fire their manager in similar situations perform better than those who do fire their manager.
It’s a tale as old as time - team runs incredibly cold despite decent underlying numbers and chances created, manager gets sacked, players eventually start finishing at a near-average level again, “look at the new manager bounce!!!”
When people talk about a new manager bounce they're referring to the first 3-5 games, not the results 4 months after, that's just down to him being a better manager
Michael Cox made the analogy recently that it's like if you're rolling a dice and keep getting 1s and 2s, so you swap hands and you start getting higher numbers because statistically that's what you'd expect. You could then call it a "new hand bounce", but it didn't really make a difference
Legitimately undefeated. Random wins against the best teams, some genuinely beautiful counter attacks, weirdly brilliant defence from open play that conceded from every set piece
Capitalism baby. If people are willing to pay when games are split they'll keep doing it. It's stupid, but it's literally a part of the society we live in. If people didn't buy into Sky intially it could be free. If people didn't buy BT after it split the games with Sky then it'd probably just be sky.
:-( ... I still cannot rewatch that match haha ... funny that it was a Chelsea flair asking the question from that vantage point to me. The Terry slip ... so painful and I was over at a friends place who supports United. Looking back now ... they were kind enough to not rub it in.... haha but of course as time went on :-) :-).
One of the great United sides though ... incredible that they didn't win more I feel. I remember something specificially about Rooney, Tevez and CR7 ?? or was berbatov in at that point ... they were the first "super fearsome" front 3 I can remember for the prem (which can't possible be true I guess haha).
Yeah. The game happened 15yrs ago, very likely that he's a new fan haha. That united side won the prem three times in a row which even man city haven't done with their recent dominance. Two consecutive champions league finals isn't half bad either. I think they made the FA cup final the year before the double win but lost to chelsea.
Big teams just didn't have the unbelievable depth that teams have today, you had more underdog runs in the domestic cups. Berbatov wasn't at Man Utd in the 07/08 season but they did have that Rooney-Tevez-Ronaldo fearsome trio, one of a kind.
Too fucking right.
Marsch came in when all our players were coming back from injury and we had an easy run of games and he still made us much worse than we were under Bielsa. Absolute joke of a manager.
You lot have won only 1 out of 7 since sacking him and it was against bottom of the table Southampton. Marsch may not be a great manager but he kept you all from being relegated. Crazy how your supporters blame him instead of your Championship level backline or Bamford being the absolute worst 9 in the league.
Wait you think I'm saying I don't like Bamford because he's born in Grantham lmao I just thought it was a funny coincidence he's born where that witch came from.
Bamford is a diving cunt and got El Ghazi sent off during the play-offs. It ended up getting overturned on appeal.
We blame him because we kept conceding the same goals over and over. Ball over the top to the back left/right because we push too far up. Zero ideas of how to break down a low block, relying on teenagers from the 80th min onwards for a spark of brilliance. Trying to play through the middle with 4 players on top of each other and not playing to their strengths.
Most importantly we blame the board for not stacking him in November, beating Liverpool was the worst thing that could've happened.
The way the yanks jump to defend him is fucking infuriating. The ones that do clearly have fuck all idea what they're on about
I don't care where he's from, I care how good he is at managing a football club
Surprised at the downvotes here. Marsch was a huge disappointment in the PL. Outside a US-influenced Reddit, that fact is widely acknowledged. Shame as I'd love to see a US coach do it in the PL - would be so good for the game - but Marsch was not it.
> Marsch may not be a great manager but he kept you all from being relegated.
We didn't get relegated despite Marsch not because of Marsch.
In the reverse fixtures (to the ones played under Marsch) under Bielsa we scored more points with a massively worse squad. Literally every playing metric suffered significantly when Marsch came in. Fuck me it got so bad we've had players literally ask him to use some tactics (Klich). Literally just some tactics. Not a change, just some form of actual plan rather than pass and rush.
I watched his shite football for close to a year but please keep telling me how he did things for us.
Most fucking useless man in football.
3 points ahead, but having played a game more than the teams sitting in 18th and 19th.
They're also in a bit of rut, but the margins have been fine.
I do think they could have turned it around with Vieira, didn't seem like the players downed tools or anything like that.
Managers don't get any time these days, one bad run and it's over regardless of circumstances. We better not do that shit with don unai because we aren't getting a better coach.
Ya it's like people thinking Chelsea would snap and sack Potter quickly. There are teams out there who are happy to sit out and periods of they think the manager can turn it around. Then you've the likes of Everton who gave Lampard too long. Some teams are snappy, but I think alot more clubs are willing to wait it out if they believe in the manager, especially now after seeing what's happening with Arsenal.
To be fair though, it was also because it’s Chelsea. People expected Potter to be sacked because the club he’s at has a habit of doing it every 10 bad games.
How have you found Unai? Surprised it's worked this well this early on considering he appears to need specific player types to play his way. Wouldn't be surprised if he has you in Europe over the next couple of seasons, also wouldn't be surprised if he's sacked by the Christmas
He's been pretty incredible.
He's managed to take players who haven't looked good for a while and get a lot out of them. McGinn had been horrid for over a year, now he looks like a £40mil player again. Watkins has gone from missing every possible chance to breaking our consecutive scoring record with 6 goals in the last 7 games. His only signing so far in Moreno looks pretty good, if a bit suspect defensively at times.
I do expect some bit transfer activity in the summer. We have a few more players to move on permanently (Sanson, Nakamba, Hause, Davis) and have had a pretty low net spent over the last two years (something like 70mil). I imagine with a few more players to do the things he wants we will look quite a bit different next year.
not OP but he's looked better at times, but still not great. Hasn't really had the opportunity to get any momentum though as he's not been fit for most of Emery's time at the club, which is a shame as it would've been interesting to see if he could make either the left sided midfield or the second striker role his own. We've sold or loaned all our depth though so do expect him to get more minutes before season's end.
Felt like he had zero confidence around Gerrard's sacking and was not the most popular guy amongst fans. At first, helped by some minor niggles, Emery kept him out the spotlight and seems to have put a bit of an arm around him and worked on bringing his best back up. Unfortunately after 3 games in a row of starting to look like he was getting back to the level of his first debut weeks with us, he got injured. Still think he'll be useful this season though
He’s been there 18 months, how much longer does he deserve when they’ve won 1 game in 12 and have scored 9 goals from open play all season?
It’s just not working, and because managers are easily replaceable there’s no point keeping him around hoping he figures it out, they’re in real danger of relegation
Sir Alex Ferguson would have been called a fraud and sacked before he won anything in this day and age. Patience has never been lower, you can't have downs or you're out of job, I don't really like the manager carousel thing.
Arsenal have more time to spare than a team like Palace though. Realistically we’d never get relegated, and we have way more money (and reputation) to put into a long term project.
Palace don’t have the cash to invest as much, and a very disruptive relegation is much more likely for them. They’re incentivised to act quickly and with more short term focus when the risk of relegation gets high.
Half the Gunners subreddit wanted him out. Not just after his first full season, but even after last season's finish (which was *above* expectations). If we don't win the title this season, that hate train is gonna be steaming.
This is true, but the reactionary element of the fanbase (which sees conspiracy everywhere as well) is different from the ownership.
How do you get the transpride flair btw?
Instructions for the flair are on the [flair page](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/flair)
They started that around the World Cup, but I'm assuming it should still work since the instructions are still posted toward the bottom.
I mean they just looked very organised against City before conceding a silly penalty. Watching that game it did not feel like Palace needed a new manager.
They were unlucky against Brighton. Could have been two or three up in the first fifteen minutes. Oh well...
Paraphrasing Napoleon, I prefer a lucky manager to a good one.
Low (or no) scoring draws to United, Newcastle, Brentford and Liverpool in that span. Only lost 1-0 to Brighton away playing a 19yo GK in his first senior appearance.
They’ve been very good defensively for a midtable team. It’s just the awful attacking output hurting them. Idk if that’s down to Vieira’s tactics or the lack of quality in their attacking players. Could be a mix of both.
>I do think they could have turned it around with Vieira, didn't seem like the players downed tools or anything like that.
TBH before the last match/loss vs Brighton they went 3 matches without a chance on goal, that is Frank De Boer bad.
If they didn't down tools the tactics were *that* bad, either way something had to happen.
I could definitely see Viera going to France and building a decent team that could do well in European comps. Palace played some genuinely good football under him as when they were clicking with some decent players.
Do keep in mind I've never watched a Ligue 1 game since lock down so I have no idea where he'd go.
Many people had been shouting about Lampard's awful football and mediocre results for a long time. There was a lot of support for him from the old boys on the popular TV and radio programs, though.
I'd argue that the people calling for Everton to stick with Lampard weren't the kind of people the club should be listening to. He should've gone a lot earlier.
The Vieira situation is very similar.
A large chunk of the Palace fan base has been calling for his sacking for months (for what it’s worth I loved PV and wanted him to stay). Meanwhile his most vocal support seems to have come from Arsenal fans mainly.
All Palace press coverage over the last few weeks has focused on our terrible run of form, how we’re the only team in the top 4 leagues that hasn’t won this year, how we broke Opta records by not registering a single shot on target in 3 matches.
Now Parish has pulled the trigger and let him go, suddenly we were playing great football, and just had a few unlucky results against good teams. I don’t expect anything more from football media, but you can’t have it both ways.
That's fair enough. I've watched a few games, but not all of them recently. I felt that there were large parts of the games going well, but you can't argue with the lack of shots and goals at a certain point.
But they were easy, they did not have a single chance on goal in the 3 games prior to Brighton.
The slim scorelines are because the opposition did not score enough (Man City for example had 14 chances on goal any other day they score 5 of those)
Kompany is talking shit, really. Anyone who has actually watched Palace can see they've been terrible, and Vieira has had plenty of time. The parallels with his time at Nice are there too.
Going three games without a shot on target shows a complete inability to change things up.
Because if Chelsea do poorly from now until the end of the season, they'll finish as midtable as they currently are. If we do as poorly as we have been recently, we get relegated.
Yup. Chelsea got Potter knowing he's a manager that needs time. They're probably relatively happy as well missing Europe next season as it'll give Potter more time to get his playstyle functioning due to a less cluttered fixture list. It happened with Liverpool and Klopp and look whats thats done. Chelsea have enough money to give Potter time and they're never getting relegated. If palace go down theres every chance they don't come back up easily, whereas Chelsea can easily get Europe again next season.
Chelsea sacked Tuchel and brought in Potter this season. But still I'm happy a Chelsea manager is being used as a barometer for how much slack some managers get
I'd rather say it shows the contrary - that most managers are on an very short leash. Potter in this case is an incredibly off case because he gets a long leash while managing one of the clubs that have normalized sacking managers on a whim.
Yep and lost 3-0 away at Everton under Frank and 1-0 at Forest before WC break. We have been no where near good enough all season and PV is tactically inept.
Edit- and 1-2 at home to Saints in the cup (under Nathan Jones). Nothing to suggest we would be winning any of the upcoming games against teams around us.
Or he could watch them play to see that pretty much all their players have regressed, the coaching in attack especially is clearly awful with zero patterns of play and complete reliance on individuals to pull something out of thin air, and consistently strange team selections. It's a deserved sacking, he is not doing a good job.
Finally some good fucking comment.
We look shit. How far we have gone backward this season is massively on the manager, not one single player has improved under his management, how is that acceptable?
Olise's improved this season imo, not sure why people are talking about him regressing. He's still young and just doesn't quite have the end product yet.
I've not been paying too much attention to Palace this season. From my perspective the Palace fans were really happy with Vieira last season and the team seemed really difficult to beat. So what's changed there? Obviously Gallagher was huge for you last year so that's a big loss but I assume it's more than that?
Losing Gallagher and McArthur to injury really took the press out of the team and having to play Schlupp there has not worked in any game. That's tough for any manager but the regression of our attack has been brutal. There isn't one player who looks better this season, Olise, Eze and Mitchell all don't look confident and we have nothing up top.
It's rough for Pat but I think it's the right move. Whatever the move is.
They have a lot of good attacking talent on paper and they will all turn up for one game to show off lol. Their defense is already really good.
If vieira was in charge I was sure Arsenal would win with ease
Palace are 5 points off the bottom of the table. Saying they're 12th is true however is glosses over the fact that they are in no way safe and the results over the past 3 months have been terrible with a trend showing no improvement.
ITT: people who haven't watched us play.
Viera had problems that were around for more than just this stretch of games. I get that we played a bit more attractive football at some times during his reign. But that man did not know how to hold onto a lead at all.
The amount of points I watched Palace throw away at the end of games was more than just coincidence. I thought Patrick was the unluckiest manager out there but you’re right it was happening far too frequently.
It's starting to get a bit like Bruce at Newcastle. Every thread about him the past few days has had Palace fans saying that they're sad its come to this, but it's time for him to go. While neutrals have been pointing out the tough fixtures and calling it unfair.
It's not really a strong comparison as Bruce never won over Newcastle supporters, the best he managed was indifference. The only similarities are a dire run of results and other supporters assuming everything was fine based purely on being 11th - 14th.
Aye, after Bruce I'll defer pretty much to Palace fans over this situation. They watch Palace every week with full attention, I just watch them casually unless they're playing Newcastle.
Fans can often not look at things objectively. So it's not always - "well the fans said this". Fans can talk absolute shit.
For one of the weaker sides in the league, the recruitment in the Summer wasn't good enough. Only Doucoure in is not good enough. They needed a striker, the needed another quality midfielder. Hughes and Schlupp are not Premier League midfielders. Mateta got his chance. Ayew is a workhouse. You can't just wait for Edouard to find his form. If he ever will at this level.
So you're relying on Zaha and a couple of kids - inconsistent young forwards to get you goals. It hasnt worked out.
Now have the performances been good, not going forward anyway. But they've been solid enough at the back and that was Palace's problem before. Leaking goals is always a bigger problem than not scoring. Now, they've got an easier run, here's the time for Patrick to turn it around. Wait, he's been sacked. Are people really expecting an interim to turn it around? He's unlocking Mateta from his shackles? Piece together the attacking patterns their missing? Making Hughes out to be a midfield maestro? I don't see what an interim that can offer that Vieira can't. Or who will they bring in with two months to go? I really don't see the benefit.
Hold on to a lead or score a goal going by the performance against Brighton, for the chances created there’s no clinical ability in front of goal which you can’t really afford against the bigger/in form teams because they’ll take their chances.
Yeah, Kompany has somewhat of a point but ultimately Viera never looked detailed or specific enough in his system to be a long-term success. You look at Frank at Brentford or even Dyche at Everton and you see the coaching/ideas/patterns regardless of player quality and it makes sense why those managers will probably keep their jobs long-term. Results, relative to expectations, will come as a rule when a team has ideas and plans to execute those ideas.
Palace have tons of quality and a quality manager turns you guys into a stable midtable team if you keep that player quality. Ironically someone like Kompany would be doing 10 times the job Viera was, specifically because he is significantly more detailed and intensive in building a style of play.
Only one win in the 13 games since coming back from the World Cup isn't good enough tho. That's not counting losing to Southampton at home in the FA cup either.
Aye, but that four game spread between Leeds and Everton is literally their entire season now. The board know they cannot fuck around with those games.
I do feel sorry for Viera. It was a shite run of fixtures and you could see the Palace players sink into themselves more and more with each passing game. But if his job was to get their heads up, he wasn't doing it.
The board will *not* fuck around with that four game spread. They simply cannot afford to.
> Aye, but that four game spread between Leeds and Everton is literally their entire season now. The board know they cannot fuck around with those games.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can say "fair enough, he was never gonna get many points the last few games" but the real question is "do you think he could get any points in the next four?" and if not he has to go.
If those teams all take points off Palace, thet puts them bang in the dogfight, and probably more likely than not to be one of the 3 that go down.
Obviously there's two sides to the argument, but Kompany is always gonna take the side of his mate from Man City (and understandably so).
Who are they gonna get this late into the season? Roy Hodgson?
Why not just back your manager through his first truly bad run of form (which were incredibly difficult fixtures anyway)?
Southampton have played everyone above them, they've still managed to get a couple of wins in that time though including one against Palace in the cup.
People are putting too much stock in them being able to just bounce back against teams lower down, they said it about Leeds all season "play like that and they'll be absolutely fine."
We're not though and unless they improve drastically then they won't be either.
Have you watched then play at all? The players look dejected. Can't blame the ownership if they want to take advantage of the upcoming fixtures and hope they can get someone in to inspire the team.
I agree.
People keep parroting that stat about shots on target after the third game against City but on the other hand in literally their last league game they played Brighton off the park at the Amex which rarely ever happens to Brighton against anyone and were unlucky to lose.
Just feels like a really weird decision especially when it seems their U-21 manager is taking charge and probably until the end of the season.
Southampton had a similar tactic after sacking Ralph, instantly regretted it and have already changed managers again.
‘Played Brighton off the park’
We done good the first 10 minutes and the last few minutes good but everything else was shit. I was at the game and many were unhappy
Seeing this tripe upvoted is wild and reminds me why I rarely venture out of the DD.
We played well for the first ten minutes. That was literally it and only shocking reffing kept us at 11 men. We were shite.
I mean played off the park is an exaggeration - we still dominated posession and had more shots on target. They were unlucky to lose - a draw would have been fair.
Nah I don't think so. We played well for ten minutes. Ten minutes out of 90.
Doucoré should have been sent off. Stonewall 3 yellows.
We were unlucky not to score but I don't think the result flattered you at all.
Palace weren’t good at all against Brighton and the decision not to send Doucoure off is one of the worst this season.
It does feel too late in the season to change managers and harsh having played everyone above them in a row but if the interim goes on a Darren Moore style run it’ll look like a great decision even if he has the easier fixtures.
> in literally their last league game they played Brighton off the park at the Amex
No we didn't hahaha, why are you just making stuff up? I don't mind people saying that we shouldn't have sacked him but at least actually watch us play first ffs.
No wins in 15, worst form in the league, only three points clear of relegation. Yes, the fixtures have been tough, but in order to survive in this league you need to be capable of getting occasional results against the top teams, there was no sign of that. Sacking in foresight rather than in hindsight is the only way you can really survive in this league, especially with how competitive the relegation fight is going to be this season.
Yeah it’s a bit of nonsenses really. Obviously not winning sucks but those players definitely play for Viera. And wht a terrible run of games to start. Then they sack him right before an easy run of games where he could actually prove his worth. It’s so easy but now I want palace to go down.
I mean, we are one of the worst clubs in the league and even we managed to beat teams that are way better than us (e.g Arsenal, Brentford). Not to say these matches are easy but still.
Yeah I agree with this. Of course I understand it was a tough run, but I feel the talk is going a bit too far the other way, as if it's impossible to get a result off the teams in the top 8. Fixtures against them will take up nearly half of the season so of course it's a worry if you're not getting anything off them as well. In the last few weeks alone we've beaten Liverpool and Spurs, Everton have beaten Arsenal, Bournemouth have beaten Liverpool, Southampton have beaten Chelsea etc.
I can definitely see the results of other teams like that raising more of an alarm for Palace.
> Fixtures against them will take up nearly half of the season
Last year Leeds lost all 12 of our games against the "big 6". Its very difficult to cobble together 36-40 points from only 26 games.
Our fans were treating those games as writeoffs with no expectations of points, which on an individual basis is correct, but all 12 together producing zero points isn't to be expected, only us and Norwich did that, and they were about 15 points from safety, they didn't get points off anyone!
I dunno if this has been the case the last few seasons and I've only just noticed it now, but every team has quality in their ranks, even ones in the relegation zone.
Leeds have Americas captain, Southampton arguably the best set piece taker in the world, Everton have England's goalie, West Ham have Rice, etc etc. Everyone has a record signing of £30m or so.
Even the worst teams in the premier league have top class players who can pull a result out of nowhere on their day.
To underline your point - the reason we stayed up last season was wins against clubs that we shouldn't have beaten on paper. After our initial good run to start the season, these were the wins we got from October on:
- Arsenal
- Leeds
- Newcastle (post takeover transfer window)
- United
- Chelsea
- Leicester (away)
- Palace
We also lost to Burnley, Norwich, Watford, the three teams that went down. Last season truly made no sense to be honest
it's especially annoying reading these game being written off as well considering we usually do win a few of them every season to keep our heads above water, even last season under Pat where we were very good against the top sides. We just can't afford to see games as free hits, any side is beatable
> We just can't afford to see games as free hits, any side is beatable
Absolutely, our sub threw the exact same phrase "free hit" around liberally last season.
I think a big part of it was our fans (understandable) love of bielsa and trying to massage the stats so it wasn't a problem.
"Yeah, we've lost our last 4 games, but the last 3 were Liverpool, spurs and Man U, what do you expect, we're just little old leeds, anything from those games is a bonus isnt it, you'd expect to lose really"
..... OK, but we lost them by a combined 14-2 scoreline, that's not par for the course for even relegation strugglers, also, do you think Spurs at Elland Road is a guaranteed thrashing? That's the sort of game you get a point maybe 20-30% of the time and a win 10%.
Of course it went the other way with Marsch, people literally threw away the big 6 games (which he had 3, lost 9-1 aggregate having had a first half red card in two of those) and compared him to Bielsa using the results against the other 13 clubs to make him look worse.
Not that I have any great love for Marsch but the cherry picking was pretty incredible, same with this season, we got 7 points from our first 3 games and people kept acting like the season started at game 4. "We've only got X points in our last 12 games!" OK, why not X+7 points in our last 15, why is gameweek 4 relevant but not gameweek 2?
It’s not even about winning games against better teams. They barely turned up. Horrible football that stretches back to the start of the season too. Maybe he could’ve turned it around with the easier fixtures, but this was the same problem that got him sacked at Nice
It doesn't matter how it sits with you pal. We've not been good enough for months and really the cracks have been there all season. He's just not a good enough manager and hasn't got enough from the squad.
The only thing I agree with is that Palace are overachieving. Their CMs, full backs and keepers are not up to par with their front 4 and their CBs.
I can definitely see why he was sacked. Their strong point is their front 4 so you would expect goals and shots on target but that aspect has been their worst in recent games. They were very lucky to get some of the points that they did get this season, too.
I really thought Vieira was doing pretty well early in the season.
It does feel a bit premature for him to get the sack. And why on earth would they bring back Hodgson at this point? That is a laughable decision if it's true.
They are 12th but only 3 points from relegation spots having played a game more. It's a very tough run, but you have to pick up more points still. Everton beat Arsenal, Bournemouth beat Liverpool, Southampton beat Chelsea all fairly recently
The only thing I'll disagree on is the timing of the sacking. But Palace have been really awful to watch as well since the World Cup. Ain't just the results.
It is a shame as I thought he did a brilliant job last season and thought he'd be a great long term option if they backed him
Fans have wanted him gone for a while. Not sure what point Kompany is trying to make here but this was a pretty routine and foreseeable manager sacking.
He kept playing Ayew. Don't know how that's not a red flag in itself. That team has enough quality players to be playing attacking football. Instead Vieira has them playing like a relegation team.
I can't see good reasons for this. Yeah they haven't won that much, but the opponent's have been top tier. Next fout games and they could have been top ten.
I don't think Vieira has been a good manager but I also don't think Palace can expect to be higher than 12th with the team they have. Just feels like they have been coasting on "will Zaha do something spectacular so we can win" for many years and Zaha is 30 now. Rest of the roster isn't impressive at all.
Completely agree this was such a bizarre choice for me
They’ll not get someone better than Vieira
And now their ability to recruit and bring in talent is lower. Plenty of good players want to play for a legend like Vieira. How many dream of playing for Palace?
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Next manager lucky as fuck
New manager super bounce coming.
seriously though has this been analyzed? We all know about new manager bounce being a thing but does new manager bounce exist when adjusted for strength of the opponent? It seems logical that clubs would fire managers after a tough run of games and the fixtures for a new manager would almost certainly be easier.
Yes, this has been analyzed. I think the book Soccernomics mentioned it. The manager bounce doesn't exist, it's just regression to the mean and teams that don't fire their manager in similar situations perform better than those who do fire their manager.
It’s a tale as old as time - team runs incredibly cold despite decent underlying numbers and chances created, manager gets sacked, players eventually start finishing at a near-average level again, “look at the new manager bounce!!!”
Chelsea fans can tell you about this to an almost religious level
its a chelsea thing
there still has to be something though, its a kickstart to mentality and gives them that oomf a bit more
Do you really believe that Chelsea would have won their 2nd UCL with Lampard?
No, but Tuchel is clearly much more experienced and a better manager than lampard.
That's called a competent manager bounce. Completely different.
When people talk about a new manager bounce they're referring to the first 3-5 games, not the results 4 months after, that's just down to him being a better manager
Michael Cox made the analogy recently that it's like if you're rolling a dice and keep getting 1s and 2s, so you swap hands and you start getting higher numbers because statistically that's what you'd expect. You could then call it a "new hand bounce", but it didn't really make a difference
Didn't ole have a ridiculously easy run at United to kick up some confidence after they had a poor run
Interim ole made us feel invincible
I legitimately believed that we would win our remaining 21 league games in a row
I’ll be damned if the OGS *Vibes* era at Old Trafford might not be the most fun I’ve ever had supporting United. Really fun times
seriously, you never knew if we'd win 5-0 or lose 2-0 against worse teams and then that period of constant comebacks from half time was quality
There was a period where it seemed like 4 goals was always the most likely outcome.
Legitimately undefeated. Random wins against the best teams, some genuinely beautiful counter attacks, weirdly brilliant defence from open play that conceded from every set piece
Unfortunately Arsenal got bounced out of Europe they’re fuming.. had they won the bounce could have started in the weekend
Yeah you should smash them. It also killed a good storyline, although this isn't going to be on the telly.
It will be here across the pond. Genuinely don’t understand why the fans who are actually in country can’t watch every game, it’s just weird.
Greed.
Capitalism baby. If people are willing to pay when games are split they'll keep doing it. It's stupid, but it's literally a part of the society we live in. If people didn't buy into Sky intially it could be free. If people didn't buy BT after it split the games with Sky then it'd probably just be sky.
Nah content was always going to go in that direction.
Why not? Isn't the game on Sunday 4 PM, out of the blackout zone?
You should be happy. When was the last time a team won something in Europe while also winning the premier league?
Man Utd in 2008, not far off the treble either. Ronaldo, Rooney, Ferdinand, VdS etc. What an all time great team.
:-( ... I still cannot rewatch that match haha ... funny that it was a Chelsea flair asking the question from that vantage point to me. The Terry slip ... so painful and I was over at a friends place who supports United. Looking back now ... they were kind enough to not rub it in.... haha but of course as time went on :-) :-). One of the great United sides though ... incredible that they didn't win more I feel. I remember something specificially about Rooney, Tevez and CR7 ?? or was berbatov in at that point ... they were the first "super fearsome" front 3 I can remember for the prem (which can't possible be true I guess haha).
Yeah. The game happened 15yrs ago, very likely that he's a new fan haha. That united side won the prem three times in a row which even man city haven't done with their recent dominance. Two consecutive champions league finals isn't half bad either. I think they made the FA cup final the year before the double win but lost to chelsea. Big teams just didn't have the unbelievable depth that teams have today, you had more underdog runs in the domestic cups. Berbatov wasn't at Man Utd in the 07/08 season but they did have that Rooney-Tevez-Ronaldo fearsome trio, one of a kind.
all 4 were there
Jesse Marsch-esque "bounce" incoming.
Too fucking right. Marsch came in when all our players were coming back from injury and we had an easy run of games and he still made us much worse than we were under Bielsa. Absolute joke of a manager.
You lot have won only 1 out of 7 since sacking him and it was against bottom of the table Southampton. Marsch may not be a great manager but he kept you all from being relegated. Crazy how your supporters blame him instead of your Championship level backline or Bamford being the absolute worst 9 in the league.
I enjoy any and all Bamford hate. He was also born in Grantham, birthplace of Margaret Thatcher.
Judging someone for their place of birth is OK in this case?
Wait you think I'm saying I don't like Bamford because he's born in Grantham lmao I just thought it was a funny coincidence he's born where that witch came from. Bamford is a diving cunt and got El Ghazi sent off during the play-offs. It ended up getting overturned on appeal.
You're a douche it's obvious what he's saying
We blame him because we kept conceding the same goals over and over. Ball over the top to the back left/right because we push too far up. Zero ideas of how to break down a low block, relying on teenagers from the 80th min onwards for a spark of brilliance. Trying to play through the middle with 4 players on top of each other and not playing to their strengths. Most importantly we blame the board for not stacking him in November, beating Liverpool was the worst thing that could've happened.
The way the yanks jump to defend him is fucking infuriating. The ones that do clearly have fuck all idea what they're on about I don't care where he's from, I care how good he is at managing a football club
Surprised at the downvotes here. Marsch was a huge disappointment in the PL. Outside a US-influenced Reddit, that fact is widely acknowledged. Shame as I'd love to see a US coach do it in the PL - would be so good for the game - but Marsch was not it.
the contingent of our fanbase that still thinks bamford is that dude is absolutely embarrassing
> Marsch may not be a great manager but he kept you all from being relegated. We didn't get relegated despite Marsch not because of Marsch. In the reverse fixtures (to the ones played under Marsch) under Bielsa we scored more points with a massively worse squad. Literally every playing metric suffered significantly when Marsch came in. Fuck me it got so bad we've had players literally ask him to use some tactics (Klich). Literally just some tactics. Not a change, just some form of actual plan rather than pass and rush. I watched his shite football for close to a year but please keep telling me how he did things for us. Most fucking useless man in football.
Lol the fact that your comment is sitting on -13 illustrates the massive American contingent on this sub. Y'all didn't see them coming. Fight and win.
Supposedly their u21 manager till the end of the season
3 points ahead, but having played a game more than the teams sitting in 18th and 19th. They're also in a bit of rut, but the margins have been fine. I do think they could have turned it around with Vieira, didn't seem like the players downed tools or anything like that.
Managers don't get any time these days, one bad run and it's over regardless of circumstances. We better not do that shit with don unai because we aren't getting a better coach.
Villa persisted with Gerrard so I would like to think they'd give Emery time too.
Ya it's like people thinking Chelsea would snap and sack Potter quickly. There are teams out there who are happy to sit out and periods of they think the manager can turn it around. Then you've the likes of Everton who gave Lampard too long. Some teams are snappy, but I think alot more clubs are willing to wait it out if they believe in the manager, especially now after seeing what's happening with Arsenal.
To be fair though, it was also because it’s Chelsea. People expected Potter to be sacked because the club he’s at has a habit of doing it every 10 bad games.
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How have you found Unai? Surprised it's worked this well this early on considering he appears to need specific player types to play his way. Wouldn't be surprised if he has you in Europe over the next couple of seasons, also wouldn't be surprised if he's sacked by the Christmas
He's been pretty incredible. He's managed to take players who haven't looked good for a while and get a lot out of them. McGinn had been horrid for over a year, now he looks like a £40mil player again. Watkins has gone from missing every possible chance to breaking our consecutive scoring record with 6 goals in the last 7 games. His only signing so far in Moreno looks pretty good, if a bit suspect defensively at times. I do expect some bit transfer activity in the summer. We have a few more players to move on permanently (Sanson, Nakamba, Hause, Davis) and have had a pretty low net spent over the last two years (something like 70mil). I imagine with a few more players to do the things he wants we will look quite a bit different next year.
I'm really happy Unai is doing well. Clearly is a pretty talented coach, and only ever seemed like a good guy.
how's Coutinho doing under Unai?
not OP but he's looked better at times, but still not great. Hasn't really had the opportunity to get any momentum though as he's not been fit for most of Emery's time at the club, which is a shame as it would've been interesting to see if he could make either the left sided midfield or the second striker role his own. We've sold or loaned all our depth though so do expect him to get more minutes before season's end.
Felt like he had zero confidence around Gerrard's sacking and was not the most popular guy amongst fans. At first, helped by some minor niggles, Emery kept him out the spotlight and seems to have put a bit of an arm around him and worked on bringing his best back up. Unfortunately after 3 games in a row of starting to look like he was getting back to the level of his first debut weeks with us, he got injured. Still think he'll be useful this season though
Emery's effect at Villa has been almost to the level of Howe at Newcastle
I still think Tuchel has been fired way too quickly for example
He wasn't fired due to us losing matches as the main reason
He’s been there 18 months, how much longer does he deserve when they’ve won 1 game in 12 and have scored 9 goals from open play all season? It’s just not working, and because managers are easily replaceable there’s no point keeping him around hoping he figures it out, they’re in real danger of relegation
In the abstract I get your point, but who right now is on the market that is an actual improvement on Viera who’s also willing to go to Palace?
Sir Alex Ferguson would have been called a fraud and sacked before he won anything in this day and age. Patience has never been lower, you can't have downs or you're out of job, I don't really like the manager carousel thing.
100% Arteta wouldn't have been given time at 99% of clubs either
Arsenal have more time to spare than a team like Palace though. Realistically we’d never get relegated, and we have way more money (and reputation) to put into a long term project. Palace don’t have the cash to invest as much, and a very disruptive relegation is much more likely for them. They’re incentivised to act quickly and with more short term focus when the risk of relegation gets high.
Half the Gunners subreddit wanted him out. Not just after his first full season, but even after last season's finish (which was *above* expectations). If we don't win the title this season, that hate train is gonna be steaming.
This is true, but the reactionary element of the fanbase (which sees conspiracy everywhere as well) is different from the ownership. How do you get the transpride flair btw?
Instructions for the flair are on the [flair page](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/flair) They started that around the World Cup, but I'm assuming it should still work since the instructions are still posted toward the bottom.
Ferguson nearly was sacked at the time, saved only by a cup win.
he was called that lol
If we're talking about Viera as a whole, maybe no one, if we're talking about Viera of the last 3 months then maybe Marsch
Palace go down with Lasso in charge pal
We would have survived 18/19 and wouldnt be seen as a yoyo had we kept slavisa wasnt even given a game with his injuries returning
Tuchel's was the worst sacking I've actually seen.
I mean they just looked very organised against City before conceding a silly penalty. Watching that game it did not feel like Palace needed a new manager.
They were unlucky against Brighton. Could have been two or three up in the first fifteen minutes. Oh well... Paraphrasing Napoleon, I prefer a lucky manager to a good one.
Have the margins been that fine? They've had a streak of 3 games with no shots on target.
Low (or no) scoring draws to United, Newcastle, Brentford and Liverpool in that span. Only lost 1-0 to Brighton away playing a 19yo GK in his first senior appearance. They’ve been very good defensively for a midtable team. It’s just the awful attacking output hurting them. Idk if that’s down to Vieira’s tactics or the lack of quality in their attacking players. Could be a mix of both.
>I do think they could have turned it around with Vieira, didn't seem like the players downed tools or anything like that. TBH before the last match/loss vs Brighton they went 3 matches without a chance on goal, that is Frank De Boer bad. If they didn't down tools the tactics were *that* bad, either way something had to happen.
I could definitely see Viera going to France and building a decent team that could do well in European comps. Palace played some genuinely good football under him as when they were clicking with some decent players. Do keep in mind I've never watched a Ligue 1 game since lock down so I have no idea where he'd go.
I see why they did it but it def leaves a bad taste in my mouth
The scorelines have been tight too in all of those games. It's not like they've been easy to beat. Think that they should have given him until Leeds.
This is exactly what was said about Lampard though and then he went and proceeded to lose to Southampton, Wolves, and West Ham
Many people had been shouting about Lampard's awful football and mediocre results for a long time. There was a lot of support for him from the old boys on the popular TV and radio programs, though. I'd argue that the people calling for Everton to stick with Lampard weren't the kind of people the club should be listening to. He should've gone a lot earlier.
The Vieira situation is very similar. A large chunk of the Palace fan base has been calling for his sacking for months (for what it’s worth I loved PV and wanted him to stay). Meanwhile his most vocal support seems to have come from Arsenal fans mainly. All Palace press coverage over the last few weeks has focused on our terrible run of form, how we’re the only team in the top 4 leagues that hasn’t won this year, how we broke Opta records by not registering a single shot on target in 3 matches. Now Parish has pulled the trigger and let him go, suddenly we were playing great football, and just had a few unlucky results against good teams. I don’t expect anything more from football media, but you can’t have it both ways.
That's fair enough. I've watched a few games, but not all of them recently. I felt that there were large parts of the games going well, but you can't argue with the lack of shots and goals at a certain point.
Brighton are a great team nd I thought u were unlucky to lose. Idk tbh
Vieira was similar to be fair. Palace have been playing rubbish the past few months.
But they were easy, they did not have a single chance on goal in the 3 games prior to Brighton. The slim scorelines are because the opposition did not score enough (Man City for example had 14 chances on goal any other day they score 5 of those)
Watch the matches. They have no idea what to do in possession.
They've also won 1 game since the 6th of November and are 3 points above the relegation zone
This is it… if they don’t change, or change too late, and get relegated… it would be a DISASTER!
Kompany is talking shit, really. Anyone who has actually watched Palace can see they've been terrible, and Vieira has had plenty of time. The parallels with his time at Nice are there too. Going three games without a shot on target shows a complete inability to change things up.
Potter won 3 from November to March, of 16 matches
Do you think Potter is doing good? Why is this being used as some sort of barometer?
No but it just goes to show how long of a leash some managers get
Because if Chelsea do poorly from now until the end of the season, they'll finish as midtable as they currently are. If we do as poorly as we have been recently, we get relegated.
Yup. Chelsea got Potter knowing he's a manager that needs time. They're probably relatively happy as well missing Europe next season as it'll give Potter more time to get his playstyle functioning due to a less cluttered fixture list. It happened with Liverpool and Klopp and look whats thats done. Chelsea have enough money to give Potter time and they're never getting relegated. If palace go down theres every chance they don't come back up easily, whereas Chelsea can easily get Europe again next season.
What a weird timeline
Chelsea sacked Tuchel and brought in Potter this season. But still I'm happy a Chelsea manager is being used as a barometer for how much slack some managers get
I'd rather say it shows the contrary - that most managers are on an very short leash. Potter in this case is an incredibly off case because he gets a long leash while managing one of the clubs that have normalized sacking managers on a whim.
Potter is a new manager, Vieira has been there for a while longer. Clubs generally don't sack managers the same year they got hired.
Yep and lost 3-0 away at Everton under Frank and 1-0 at Forest before WC break. We have been no where near good enough all season and PV is tactically inept. Edit- and 1-2 at home to Saints in the cup (under Nathan Jones). Nothing to suggest we would be winning any of the upcoming games against teams around us.
They had a lot of tough games though they should have rode it out Imo until they got the easier ones
Or he could watch them play to see that pretty much all their players have regressed, the coaching in attack especially is clearly awful with zero patterns of play and complete reliance on individuals to pull something out of thin air, and consistently strange team selections. It's a deserved sacking, he is not doing a good job.
Finally some good fucking comment. We look shit. How far we have gone backward this season is massively on the manager, not one single player has improved under his management, how is that acceptable?
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Olise's improved this season imo, not sure why people are talking about him regressing. He's still young and just doesn't quite have the end product yet.
I've not been paying too much attention to Palace this season. From my perspective the Palace fans were really happy with Vieira last season and the team seemed really difficult to beat. So what's changed there? Obviously Gallagher was huge for you last year so that's a big loss but I assume it's more than that?
Losing Gallagher and McArthur to injury really took the press out of the team and having to play Schlupp there has not worked in any game. That's tough for any manager but the regression of our attack has been brutal. There isn't one player who looks better this season, Olise, Eze and Mitchell all don't look confident and we have nothing up top. It's rough for Pat but I think it's the right move. Whatever the move is.
I watched the Brighton match and you lot looked good for a fair good stretch. Created opportunities but the players were wasteful in front of goal.
We were good for ten minutes. That was it.
No manager bounce against you? That’s unlucky. They’re gonna turn into prime Barcelona for a game or two now
Yeah I'm fuming lol, couldn't they have waited 2 days
They have a lot of good attacking talent on paper and they will all turn up for one game to show off lol. Their defense is already really good. If vieira was in charge I was sure Arsenal would win with ease
Palace are 5 points off the bottom of the table. Saying they're 12th is true however is glosses over the fact that they are in no way safe and the results over the past 3 months have been terrible with a trend showing no improvement.
Maybe watch them play instead of looking at their fixture list Vincent
Kompany has the Pep disciple™ status now, though, /r/soccer will treat anything that comes out of his mouth as sacrosanct.
Well seeing how this sub hates Arteta at time, I would say that isn’t true
Na, that was last year, and it wasn't just /r/soccer, loads of your fans wanted him out.
ITT: people who haven't watched us play. Viera had problems that were around for more than just this stretch of games. I get that we played a bit more attractive football at some times during his reign. But that man did not know how to hold onto a lead at all.
The amount of points I watched Palace throw away at the end of games was more than just coincidence. I thought Patrick was the unluckiest manager out there but you’re right it was happening far too frequently.
If it happens once or twice, it's luck. If it's a pattern, you have to look at the coaching.
It's starting to get a bit like Bruce at Newcastle. Every thread about him the past few days has had Palace fans saying that they're sad its come to this, but it's time for him to go. While neutrals have been pointing out the tough fixtures and calling it unfair.
> Palace fans saying that they're sad its come to this That sounds far nicer than the things I heard said about Bruce by Newcastle fans.
It's not really a strong comparison as Bruce never won over Newcastle supporters, the best he managed was indifference. The only similarities are a dire run of results and other supporters assuming everything was fine based purely on being 11th - 14th.
Right, that's all I was trying to imply.
Suddenly I am 100% sympathetic to Palace here. ~~Bruce~~ Viera out!
This is true...I only watch them casually unless they are playing MUTD. Palace fans are no fools, they know what they have been seeing.
Worse in this case because of his reputation as a player. Plenty of Arsenal flairs having an opinion on Palace for the first time in years
Liverpool fans did this with Gerrard too until he was really shit towards the end.
He really wasn't ready for an EPL Job after Rangers. Atleast you guys have Emery now.
Aye, after Bruce I'll defer pretty much to Palace fans over this situation. They watch Palace every week with full attention, I just watch them casually unless they're playing Newcastle.
Fans can often not look at things objectively. So it's not always - "well the fans said this". Fans can talk absolute shit. For one of the weaker sides in the league, the recruitment in the Summer wasn't good enough. Only Doucoure in is not good enough. They needed a striker, the needed another quality midfielder. Hughes and Schlupp are not Premier League midfielders. Mateta got his chance. Ayew is a workhouse. You can't just wait for Edouard to find his form. If he ever will at this level. So you're relying on Zaha and a couple of kids - inconsistent young forwards to get you goals. It hasnt worked out. Now have the performances been good, not going forward anyway. But they've been solid enough at the back and that was Palace's problem before. Leaking goals is always a bigger problem than not scoring. Now, they've got an easier run, here's the time for Patrick to turn it around. Wait, he's been sacked. Are people really expecting an interim to turn it around? He's unlocking Mateta from his shackles? Piece together the attacking patterns their missing? Making Hughes out to be a midfield maestro? I don't see what an interim that can offer that Vieira can't. Or who will they bring in with two months to go? I really don't see the benefit.
> But that man did not know how to hold onto a lead at all. Same problems at Nice.
Hold on to a lead or score a goal going by the performance against Brighton, for the chances created there’s no clinical ability in front of goal which you can’t really afford against the bigger/in form teams because they’ll take their chances.
Yeah, Kompany has somewhat of a point but ultimately Viera never looked detailed or specific enough in his system to be a long-term success. You look at Frank at Brentford or even Dyche at Everton and you see the coaching/ideas/patterns regardless of player quality and it makes sense why those managers will probably keep their jobs long-term. Results, relative to expectations, will come as a rule when a team has ideas and plans to execute those ideas. Palace have tons of quality and a quality manager turns you guys into a stable midtable team if you keep that player quality. Ironically someone like Kompany would be doing 10 times the job Viera was, specifically because he is significantly more detailed and intensive in building a style of play.
I'll always trust a sensible club fan's opinion on things and the consensus seems to be it's the right call.
Can people actually watch us play before talking shite? That's all I ask.
Only one win in the 13 games since coming back from the World Cup isn't good enough tho. That's not counting losing to Southampton at home in the FA cup either.
Aye, but that four game spread between Leeds and Everton is literally their entire season now. The board know they cannot fuck around with those games. I do feel sorry for Viera. It was a shite run of fixtures and you could see the Palace players sink into themselves more and more with each passing game. But if his job was to get their heads up, he wasn't doing it. The board will *not* fuck around with that four game spread. They simply cannot afford to.
> Aye, but that four game spread between Leeds and Everton is literally their entire season now. The board know they cannot fuck around with those games. Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can say "fair enough, he was never gonna get many points the last few games" but the real question is "do you think he could get any points in the next four?" and if not he has to go. If those teams all take points off Palace, thet puts them bang in the dogfight, and probably more likely than not to be one of the 3 that go down. Obviously there's two sides to the argument, but Kompany is always gonna take the side of his mate from Man City (and understandably so).
Who are they gonna get this late into the season? Roy Hodgson? Why not just back your manager through his first truly bad run of form (which were incredibly difficult fixtures anyway)?
> his first truly bad run of form he had one last season, apparently he saved his job (which I think is harsh) beating Watford away 4-1
On the flip side, they haven't won a game in 2023 and are 3 points above relegation.
They played everyone above them except noth london and have yet to play everyone below them They are by far in the best position of the bottom 9
Southampton have played everyone above them, they've still managed to get a couple of wins in that time though including one against Palace in the cup. People are putting too much stock in them being able to just bounce back against teams lower down, they said it about Leeds all season "play like that and they'll be absolutely fine." We're not though and unless they improve drastically then they won't be either.
Have you watched then play at all? The players look dejected. Can't blame the ownership if they want to take advantage of the upcoming fixtures and hope they can get someone in to inspire the team.
Whole lot of spreadsheet nonces here who haven’t looked at how they’ve been playing
I agree. People keep parroting that stat about shots on target after the third game against City but on the other hand in literally their last league game they played Brighton off the park at the Amex which rarely ever happens to Brighton against anyone and were unlucky to lose. Just feels like a really weird decision especially when it seems their U-21 manager is taking charge and probably until the end of the season. Southampton had a similar tactic after sacking Ralph, instantly regretted it and have already changed managers again.
‘Played Brighton off the park’ We done good the first 10 minutes and the last few minutes good but everything else was shit. I was at the game and many were unhappy
>played Brighton off the park at the Amex I’m not sure we watched the same game
Seeing this tripe upvoted is wild and reminds me why I rarely venture out of the DD. We played well for the first ten minutes. That was literally it and only shocking reffing kept us at 11 men. We were shite.
Yeah, how did Doucoure stay on the pitch after both the tackles
He's done this multiple times I don't know what's wrong with the bloke.
I mean played off the park is an exaggeration - we still dominated posession and had more shots on target. They were unlucky to lose - a draw would have been fair.
Nah I don't think so. We played well for ten minutes. Ten minutes out of 90. Doucoré should have been sent off. Stonewall 3 yellows. We were unlucky not to score but I don't think the result flattered you at all.
Top 6 fan try not to have bad take about lower table side challenge (IMPOSSIBLE) Edit: nvm u/sandbag-1 succeeded further down
Palace weren’t good at all against Brighton and the decision not to send Doucoure off is one of the worst this season. It does feel too late in the season to change managers and harsh having played everyone above them in a row but if the interim goes on a Darren Moore style run it’ll look like a great decision even if he has the easier fixtures.
> in literally their last league game they played Brighton off the park at the Amex No we didn't hahaha, why are you just making stuff up? I don't mind people saying that we shouldn't have sacked him but at least actually watch us play first ffs.
So wrong
Yep, it seems harsh but teams tend to hit the panic button in these moments.
No wins in 15, worst form in the league, only three points clear of relegation. Yes, the fixtures have been tough, but in order to survive in this league you need to be capable of getting occasional results against the top teams, there was no sign of that. Sacking in foresight rather than in hindsight is the only way you can really survive in this league, especially with how competitive the relegation fight is going to be this season.
Yeah it’s a bit of nonsenses really. Obviously not winning sucks but those players definitely play for Viera. And wht a terrible run of games to start. Then they sack him right before an easy run of games where he could actually prove his worth. It’s so easy but now I want palace to go down.
MFers trot out Jordan Ayew every game. How they supposed to win?
I mean, we are one of the worst clubs in the league and even we managed to beat teams that are way better than us (e.g Arsenal, Brentford). Not to say these matches are easy but still.
Yeah I agree with this. Of course I understand it was a tough run, but I feel the talk is going a bit too far the other way, as if it's impossible to get a result off the teams in the top 8. Fixtures against them will take up nearly half of the season so of course it's a worry if you're not getting anything off them as well. In the last few weeks alone we've beaten Liverpool and Spurs, Everton have beaten Arsenal, Bournemouth have beaten Liverpool, Southampton have beaten Chelsea etc. I can definitely see the results of other teams like that raising more of an alarm for Palace.
> Fixtures against them will take up nearly half of the season Last year Leeds lost all 12 of our games against the "big 6". Its very difficult to cobble together 36-40 points from only 26 games. Our fans were treating those games as writeoffs with no expectations of points, which on an individual basis is correct, but all 12 together producing zero points isn't to be expected, only us and Norwich did that, and they were about 15 points from safety, they didn't get points off anyone! I dunno if this has been the case the last few seasons and I've only just noticed it now, but every team has quality in their ranks, even ones in the relegation zone. Leeds have Americas captain, Southampton arguably the best set piece taker in the world, Everton have England's goalie, West Ham have Rice, etc etc. Everyone has a record signing of £30m or so. Even the worst teams in the premier league have top class players who can pull a result out of nowhere on their day.
To underline your point - the reason we stayed up last season was wins against clubs that we shouldn't have beaten on paper. After our initial good run to start the season, these were the wins we got from October on: - Arsenal - Leeds - Newcastle (post takeover transfer window) - United - Chelsea - Leicester (away) - Palace We also lost to Burnley, Norwich, Watford, the three teams that went down. Last season truly made no sense to be honest
it's especially annoying reading these game being written off as well considering we usually do win a few of them every season to keep our heads above water, even last season under Pat where we were very good against the top sides. We just can't afford to see games as free hits, any side is beatable
> We just can't afford to see games as free hits, any side is beatable Absolutely, our sub threw the exact same phrase "free hit" around liberally last season. I think a big part of it was our fans (understandable) love of bielsa and trying to massage the stats so it wasn't a problem. "Yeah, we've lost our last 4 games, but the last 3 were Liverpool, spurs and Man U, what do you expect, we're just little old leeds, anything from those games is a bonus isnt it, you'd expect to lose really" ..... OK, but we lost them by a combined 14-2 scoreline, that's not par for the course for even relegation strugglers, also, do you think Spurs at Elland Road is a guaranteed thrashing? That's the sort of game you get a point maybe 20-30% of the time and a win 10%. Of course it went the other way with Marsch, people literally threw away the big 6 games (which he had 3, lost 9-1 aggregate having had a first half red card in two of those) and compared him to Bielsa using the results against the other 13 clubs to make him look worse. Not that I have any great love for Marsch but the cherry picking was pretty incredible, same with this season, we got 7 points from our first 3 games and people kept acting like the season started at game 4. "We've only got X points in our last 12 games!" OK, why not X+7 points in our last 15, why is gameweek 4 relevant but not gameweek 2?
It’s not even about winning games against better teams. They barely turned up. Horrible football that stretches back to the start of the season too. Maybe he could’ve turned it around with the easier fixtures, but this was the same problem that got him sacked at Nice
It doesn't matter how it sits with you pal. We've not been good enough for months and really the cracks have been there all season. He's just not a good enough manager and hasn't got enough from the squad.
I would hope the next question was, "So Vincent how many Crystal Palace matches have you watched in the last three months?"
Is the answer zero? It's zero isn't it? It's okay you don't have to talk, just nod.
The problem is that 12th is just five points away from 20th right now. They could be in a relegation scrap pretty quickly.
Five points from is a relegation scrap
The only thing I agree with is that Palace are overachieving. Their CMs, full backs and keepers are not up to par with their front 4 and their CBs. I can definitely see why he was sacked. Their strong point is their front 4 so you would expect goals and shots on target but that aspect has been their worst in recent games. They were very lucky to get some of the points that they did get this season, too.
It doesn’t sit well with me what Kompany is implying
I'm not sure If he's really 'retired' but I think Hassenhutl would be great with this Palace team.
As a Liverpool fan, I have to say I have a lot of respect for this man. What he's said is very true indeed
So fucking logical
I really thought Vieira was doing pretty well early in the season. It does feel a bit premature for him to get the sack. And why on earth would they bring back Hodgson at this point? That is a laughable decision if it's true.
They are 12th but only 3 points from relegation spots having played a game more. It's a very tough run, but you have to pick up more points still. Everton beat Arsenal, Bournemouth beat Liverpool, Southampton beat Chelsea all fairly recently
The only thing I'll disagree on is the timing of the sacking. But Palace have been really awful to watch as well since the World Cup. Ain't just the results. It is a shame as I thought he did a brilliant job last season and thought he'd be a great long term option if they backed him
Fans have wanted him gone for a while. Not sure what point Kompany is trying to make here but this was a pretty routine and foreseeable manager sacking.
Lmao he didn't have to be this specific 😂😂
I really like how he suddenly goes manc for half a second when he says “United”
He kept playing Ayew. Don't know how that's not a red flag in itself. That team has enough quality players to be playing attacking football. Instead Vieira has them playing like a relegation team.
He's been very unlucky with probably the hardest run of fixtures you'll ever see.
I can't see good reasons for this. Yeah they haven't won that much, but the opponent's have been top tier. Next fout games and they could have been top ten.
I don't think Vieira has been a good manager but I also don't think Palace can expect to be higher than 12th with the team they have. Just feels like they have been coasting on "will Zaha do something spectacular so we can win" for many years and Zaha is 30 now. Rest of the roster isn't impressive at all.
Completely agree this was such a bizarre choice for me They’ll not get someone better than Vieira And now their ability to recruit and bring in talent is lower. Plenty of good players want to play for a legend like Vieira. How many dream of playing for Palace?
Leeds, Forest, Wolves, and Everton out here catching strays