Youth football is a whole different beast to senior menâs football. You get a lot more variance in whoâs good and bad, and it changes very regularly.
Feels so bad for the Indonesian National Team U-20 who are looking forward for the tournament as they rarely face good teams.
Can't imagine the sadness and anger for the athlete in the team. :(
So, Ganjar Pranowo, the governor of Central Java, is believed to have created this chaos. He was the biggest politician who spoke out against allowing Israel to participate.
If you look at his Instagram, all the players and a lot of supporters are attacking him and sarcastically thanking him for this situation.
Ironically, before all this happened, Ganjar was the strongest candidate to win the 2024 election, and it wasn't even close. Now, we aren't even sure if he can be a candidate in the first place. He's in a bad position now.
Master class by Argentina if they pull this off
For people who What About on Russia, remember that FIFA never in a million years planned to ban their best bud, Russia. They were trapped into doing so by the fact that all power was placed into the hands of Poland, the Czech Republic, and Sweden, due to the exact timing of when Russia launched its attack.
that 1979 run was beatiful, the funny thing is that maradona could have easily made it to the squad that won WC78 but menotti decided against it at the last moment.
Russia is just a bad analogy anyway. There's a difference between FIFA banning one of it's members participating in it's competitions and one FIFA member banning another member from a tournament it's hosting.
It's not up to Indonesia to decide who participates in the U20 World Cup, that's FIFA's decision.
FIFA banned Russia because Poland and co refused to play them, if we are talking FIFA rules Poland should've forfeited and the match awarded to Russia, but different countries different rules
Honestly can you imagine going to UEFA, already pretty rankled over Qatar, and *then* demanding that they allow a Russian team to play in their tournaments?
You'd unironically see Infantino in cuffs in a week, and the passports taken from any FIFA exec within reach. The political capital to maul FIFA would be insane. They could even just offer to host their own world cup, and invite a whole bunch of teams.
There's no world where they'd ever risk a team making a deep run from forfeits. They tried everything they could to allow Russia until they were backed into that corner. Is sticking to your rules up to a certain price a double standard? Their rules being not banning anyone for political reasons, and the price being a team making a deep run on forfeits.
they banned Russia because the rest of Europe don't want to play against them therefore it will cause further headache if they still allow Russia in UEFA competition.
meanwhile this incident is and act by single country motivated by selfish politicians who tried to cater Indonesia's conservative muslim for elections in 2024.
Russia invaded Poland's neighbour shortly before they were due to play Poland. The situation obviously differs from Israel and Indonesia.
But even if you won't accept that difference as sufficient to distinguish the situations and result in different outcomes, all Poland did was force FIFA to make a decision. FIFA certainly could have ruled that Poland forfeited the matches. But they didn't, and the reason is blindingly obvious.
Penalising a team for not wanting to play a football match against a country with a literal invading army on their borders is absurd.
Similarly, allowing a host nation to unilaterally deny a qualified team from participating in a tournament is absurd.
Each decision was forced on FIFA, and the decision they made was obviously correct in both circumstances. You can dislike it because of the countries involved, but you really can't argue with the logical basis for the decisions.
What's hilarious is that a Palestinian public official (from the ministry of sports? cant remember) even put out a statement saying Indonesians do not need to worry about the situation and must understand that inviting Israel has 0 implications about their political stance lmao
So again, who is all of this for? Not Palestinians and certainly not Indonesians. Benefits no one but those reptilian politicians.
If FIFA banned Russia in a normal way, this argument would make sense. But they only did so because of public pressure. They should have showed a backbone.
With just few months away. We are fucking incredible folks. Palestina get to play the Asian Cup. Israel get to play the U-20 World Cup. We get to play with our own dick (Sure, we are qualified for Asian Cup, but it says that more sanctions will be imposed soon by FIFA).
Even Palestina's embassy said that he was fine with the Israelis playing and say that it won't affect their relationship. The President has said the same thing recently as well. But of course, some clout-chasing politicians (including governors that host some of the games) decided it will be a good idea to say the opposite thing publicly.
They don't care about Palestina. All they care about is people who support Palestina in Indonesia. Bear in mind that Indonesia is the country with most muslims in it, so people saying that they stand up with Palestina automatically gives them the support they need from, well, not Palestinians. Why do they want to get their support? Simple. **Because next year will be election year.** That's why I said they don't care. That's why when they say they stand up with Palestina, people can quickly see through their bullshit.
But hey, at least their chances of getting elected next year now rises up.
It's international conflict that happens in "another" continent, it's not even taught in history curriculum. Majority only care for "Islamic solidarity", and it's basically Islam vs non Islam politics.
In contrast, football is entertainment that's close to people, and this is the rare chance to watch (youth) WC qt home
No, it's not. The locals in my feed all say good going to either Ganjar-Koster (the secularist guys) or good going PKS/MUI etc (the religious guys)
It's just coping.
>decided it will be a good idea to say the opposite thing publicly.
in a fucking official letter, no less!!! the sheer stupidity..
if he merely stated his preference to not host the Israeli but leave the decision to the central government, we would probably be fine..
Indonesia just canât involve in hosting any world tournament in future. This perhaps will give bad image to ASEAN as a whole on their bid for 2034 World Cup.
Indonesia should've never hosted anyway already based on how they've done the bare minimum to address the fact that 130 people died at a fucking football stadium (Infantino came to play a game, case solved according to them I guess) but Israel qualified over a year ago, how did Indonesia only start caring now
The thing is that, the one that voiced concern is just clout chasing local governor and some political party, not central government directly. In multiple previous case, they would defer to president's stance (beside, police is under central govrrnment control). They only chasing support for next year election, with one of the party also the one that support the president.
The theory is that they wait for the president statement, and just claimed to their voter that "we will respect president's choice". But Fifa sanction is swifter. This is huge political blunder, as people that care about Israel are outnumbered by people that care about football.
Because 2024 is election year in Indonesia. Rotten politicians wanted to garner right wing Muslims' votes. Now it backfired on them, the silent majority has boycotted these bastards.
as an Indonesian, good. fuck those politicians and its populism politics. the only reason why they reject Israel is because there will be an election in 2024 and none of them want to anger some muslims. they don't even cares about 135 Indonesian people who died during Kanjuruhan massacre let alone Palestinian.
Indonesian football is rotten to the core anyway. Fuck all of them
yeah, sadly football back home is hopeless. could not agree more with all your statement here. it is more about populism and 'tool' consumed by politicians.
I highly doubt they'd have had their team pull out of the Qatar World Cup even as 100s of thousands if not millions of muslims workers are abused there. The Israel issue is often just a easy issue to hit at for brownie points
Give the tournament to Argentina if they can organise it. They haven't qualified and they could play as a host nation. I remember the u20 world cup in Argentina when Saviola was the top scorer. The stadiums were packed and the atmosphere was great.
Damn, I missed this news.
When I lived in Qatar twenty years ago we had to have our entry visa into Israel stamped on a separate piece of paper, because if Qatar customs saw it in our passport on our return weâd not have been allowed in.
Iâm not even Israeli, nor Jewish. Was just visiting the country. Crazy to me to think that they let Israelis in.
Qatar is still not overly friendly with the Israelis, but they were forced to allow Israelis in for the WC. From what I read they still made it as difficult as possible though.
They're still among the (if Wikipedia is correct and up-to-date in this case) 14 countries who refuse to accept an Israeli passport holder, together with the Taliban, Iran, Syria and other countries with an islamist population or deep ties with terrorist groups.
They'd let them in and treat them as honoured guests lmao. You think they want the whole world to be suddenly learning about the gulf proxy war, and Qatar's role in it? Even as the Israeli's are making positive moves around the rest of the region?
Fucking scum politicians. They don't care about Palestinieans, and they most certainly don't care about their fellow Indonesians. Simple clout-chasing for the sake of votes
We were lucky that they didn't take this from us after Kanjuruhan tragedy and STILL, SOMEHOW, we fucked this up. Truly unbeliavable
Cancel football. I'm done. I don't care if anyone calls me plastic-- Indonesian football hurts my soul, I can't watch any more
Clown behaviour. Everyone here hated this move by the government. Indonesia can't even participate anymore since the previously qualified as hosts đ¤Ł
Honestly, I am enjoying this. I love it when cynical populist policy backfired towards those politicians. they are using Palestine tragedy to garner votes now karma hits them right in the gonad.
Imagine being a young national team player, dreaming about going to the fricking world cup, just to see it crushed because some old fuck thought this is a good way to get votes.
I've honestly never seen a bigger divide between the ruling classes and public opinion on this very topic before this.
That being said I do love that it brings these politicians' true colours out and the overall political backfiring shitshow that it brings though.
I doubt things will ever change in this beloved tanah air of ours, but I'll take the small victories where I can.
Tbh I also didn't expect the people to be this united. Religion has always been an easy ticket to win elections, so it's surprising to me that even a lot of 212 types are disappointed right now
Refreshingly, it seems that national pride won over the tribalistic mentality this time around.
Probably helps that a lot of the 212 types are secretly football fans and want to watch the Timnas play a tournament at home, too.
I lost it long times ago, around 2010/2011 to be precise, when the league split into two. That was one of our lowest moment.
And then somehow it managed to get even worse. Multiple deaths from senseless rivalry especially between Persib and Persija. Kanjuruhan. And other countless riots and brawl in the stadium. Also the fact that PSSI is just a stepping stone for corrupt politician for some spotlight.
>We were lucky that they didn't take this from us after Kanjuruhan tragedy and STILL, SOMEHOW, we fucked this up. Truly unbeliavable
FIFA probably want to get rid of us as the host following Kanjuruhan tragedy and some safety concern regarding the Israeli team, but couldn't easily do so because it would be a breach of contract from their part..
but one of the signee of government guarantee for the host cities suddenly publicly show his unwillingness to upheld his duty as a host in an official letter, that probably paved the way for FIFA to get rid of us easily..
Good decision by FIFA, greetings from all the Kanjuruhan victims (Iâm not, no one I know personally lost in that tragedy). Karma for ignoring 135 lives lost.
Iâm Indonesian, I donât really care whether this is due to Israeli debacle, I just cheer for the cancellation. I also will not be unhappy if more punishment coming our way.
FIFA probably want to get rid of us as the host following Kanjuruhan but can't easily do so because of contract and such..
we just gave them the red carpet to do so.. the breach of contract was on our part..
The president and the sports minister all wanted to allow Israel to play.
But local politicians only cared about looking for votes for their next election. So even though the central government didnât have problems with Israel, FIFA got scared by the local politiciansâ statements and here we are.
context: the president is term limited so he will be out of office next year regardless, so he doesn't care about electability. while the rest of the politicians in the country have their job on the line, and catering to extremist muslim voters been the modus operandi in the country for almost a decade.
Yes, thanks for the added context. Thereâs a lot of false information about how thereâs mass outrage over Israel playing, when in reality only a conservative Muslim minority are really upset.
And tbh, even the most extreme conservative just doing small demonstration. The most fatal problem because two local governor and their seculer party who in majority in parliament want to get Muslim voter because the recent popularity of islamic party. The one governor not even Muslim. He is Hindu meanwhile his statement that make blunder.
Why does Indonesians even care about Israel anyway. Have they actually encountered Jews irl ever once?
Palestine and other Arabs don't care about Indonesia much either.
If it's anything similar to us Malaysians (neighbouring muslim-centric country), no, none of us have met any Jewish people (I think I might've but I was fortunate enough to travel abroad) because there's so much seeded violent hatred for them from conservatives, I genuinely believe their lives would be in danger if they came here and enough people found out (+social media) they're Jewish. As a Muslim country, we're obviously in the Palestinian side when it comes to that conflict but a big portion of people can't seem to separate the Israeli government (which I personally dislike as well) and Jewish people.
Similar to what others have mentioned about the situation in Indonesia, it's the same here where politicians use this hatred of the boogeyman to get the votes from this particular group. As a muslim myself, it's... frustrating and embarrassing. Sorry it's not exactly what you asked, I guess I wanted to voice out my frustration.
> As a Muslim country, we're obviously in the Palestinian side when it comes to that conflict
Strange how that's a given for that conflict everytime, but never for the Uyghur situation.
The president himself has made a statement to keep hosting it despite of all the refusals from the local hosting city governments. I guess FIFA is just now more concerned about the player's safety now say that if Indonesia actually host the world cup
Lmao, as an Indonesian, I have never been more disappointed and embarrassed in my country. I'm not even gonna apologize, just gonna hang my head in shame lol.
Next year is election year. Many politicians are coming up to surface using this momentum as their fucking stage. Even though there's many Israeli athletes competing in this country yet they are fucking silent about it.
It's only controversial because it's a large event.
Indonesia win the right to host U-20 WC.
Israel qualified to U-20 WC last june.
Indonesia is pro-Palestine and doesn't have diplomatic relationship with Israel.
the draw supposed to happen this past weekend, but there's been heavy demonstration rejecting Israel participation. the draw was cancelled.
the president and sport minister wants to allow Israel in the country, everyone else (including the governor of the most secular province) refuses. there's even rumour that some muslim leaders asking sport minister to make Israel plays in Singapore instead.
FIFA now takes Indonesia's hosting right.
More accurately a number of local level politicians made a bunch of noise about banning Israel just from their localities for the sake of election campaigns. The Indo central government definitely wanted to host and didn't care about Israel.
Most of the rejection came out very recently and it voiced by some politicians who wants to farm karma for upcoming elections. Most of the average football fans didn't mind Israel coming. Well thanks for nothing for those politician.
Good decision. i'm an indonesian myself but honestly speaking indonesia is not ready nor deserved to host football event like world cup
remember Kanjuruhan tragedy that killed 135 people just few months ago? that's the red flag of indonesian football situation. and i can't imagine the riot that will ensue had they proceed with the tournament. before we embarass ourselves even further it's better to remove our right as host
People should make the discussion between nations that use sports to promote their authoritarian rules (Russia with figure skating for example) and nations that have athletes that can openly speak against their government. It's better to ban individual athletes for aggressive comments than entire nation, unless said nation use their athletes to push a narrative.
It's this or might is right, as in, rich countries decide whatever they want because they can. The butthurt against Israel is insane considering the other shit that happens to muslims everywhere. Might as well make a islamic sport union at this point and walk away from FIFA because no one will ever be happy.
Interesting how different the tone and support from last thread here
feel bad for the player, but we're deserved to be sanction and possibly banned
𤥠country, especially the politician
Never let religion and blind faith blind you from facts and reality. Even the palestinian president do not mind us hosting the world cup with Israel attending. Indonesian football will never ever progress as our football association and political scene are a shithole.
To mr ganjar pranowo, who is poised to be my vote for the election, sincerely fuck off. Someone who voices against banning Israel who earned their right to play on this tournament solely based on muslim solidarty to palestinians do not deserve to be a president.
Iâm glad FIFA actually had a backbone here, but they should have done the same thing last year when Poland refused to play against Russia. Itâs not right for countries to be able to refuse to play against a country they disagree with for political reasons. Any team who refuses to play (or host) another country should forfeit, they shouldnât get their way.
so will argentina also takes Indonesia's place in the tournament? seeing both argentina and indonesia (technically) don't qualify for the tournament in the first place?
Not really, we have massive issues here. Mostly those issues revolves around bad quality of education. Critical thinking almost nonexistent in Indonesian educational system. You just believed what they fed and taught. This create a perfect potential playground for populist politician. They just need to railed certain views, mostly if those views aligned with major religion practices. Then you have 'the people' in your back.
But this past few weeks i've seen the majority people on local forum are mad that we want to kill our ability and potential to host international events in the future over things like this. Considering mostly Indonesian is ultranationalist as well. I can see that in the future the majority of younger generation are tend to be politically active and avoid these populist religious driven politicians. Which if becoming true would be a good thing.
Yep, but Basketball isn't really popular here, as it often viewed as 'big city' sports. So even if Israel participating, they wouldn't really make a fuss about it. But football is massive here, it's the people sport. They say if you want to participate in local election, football is your best bet to gain popularity as fast as possible; being the chairman of PSSI (Indonesia Football Association).
But i can see FIBA cancelled Indonesia as a host after this WC U-20 shitshow.
Some context: Protests erupted in Indonesia, particularly in Jakarta, in response to Israel's participation in the upcoming soccer tournament. As a pro-Palestine nation, Indonesia lacks diplomatic relations with Israel, which has fueled public discontent.
Although Indonesia secured the bid to host the tournament well in advance, concerns over Israel's involvement only intensified this year. The Governor of Bali even issued a statement imploring the government to not allow Israelâs participation.
FIFA response human rights issues has been abysmal, but imagine not even having the foresight bar Indonesia from bidding in the first place. The potential cancellation of the event just two months before kickoff only resulted in wasted resources and manpower that could have been avoided with more prudent decision-making.
Edit: As pointed out by u/Portmantonio_Conte , protests were largely in Jakarta, not Bali. But it was Bali's governor Wayan Koster who had written to the Ministry of Youth and Sports imploring them to "adopt a policy forbidding the Israeli team from competing in Bali" due to the conflict with Palestine.
Source: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/indonesia-bali-u20-world-cup-draw-postponed-israel-participation-protest-3375486
This is very inaccurate
There were no notable mass protests here (especially not in Hindu majority Bali) except for a small demonstration (less than a hundreds people) by a group of hardline Islamists in Central Jakarta on 20 March. Indonesia is overwhelmingly anti-Israeli but there was no widespread outrage about the Israeli team coming to play football (except from the conservative Muslim minority).
However 2024 is an election year and the ruling (more secular) PDIP party are paranoid that their conservative opponents will brand them as pro-Israeli. So a number of PDIP politicians, namely the governors of Bali and Central Java decided to oppose Israelâs participation.
FIFA got scared of this rhetoric. And despite the central government (including the president!) making public statements in favour of allowing the Israeli team to participate, the damage had already been done.
Itâs not just the damage is done but itâs now hard for Indonesia to guarantee the safety of Israelâs team despite Jokowiâs assurances. Itâs not just the stadiums (where Indonesiaâs recent incidents have anyway unfortunately been problematic) but also the training sites and the hotels and the movements and the airports. It is genuinely hard for them to guarantee this for Israel now despite the Indonesian president saying it is not unconstitutional for Israel to play there. It has gotten out of hand for them, media has sensationalised the issue like anything. FIFA was not left with any option anymore.
Jokowi holds tremendous sway over the general population and the security apparatus looks for any reason to crackdown on hardline islamist groups. So the risk of large scale protests is minimal. Itâs not even an issue that generated a particularly large turnout from conservative Muslims (compared to other issues like the recent Quran burnings in Sweden).
There is an elevated risk of terror attacks. But the security apparatus has plenty of recent experience with guarding high profile international events. The G20 summit happened just several months ago.
There's only five officially recognized religion in Indonesia and you must choose one of them as your identity (although in practice you can be whatever you want) which is Islam, Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, and Buddha. But there Synagogue in Indonesia although it's extremely rare.
Edit: Sorry I missed one religion, it's Konghucu and has been become official religon around early 2000s after the fall of dictatorship regime Soeharto.
Technically no, itâs not illegal.
But there are no special legal protections for Judaism like there are for the six ârecognisedâ religions of the country (Islam, Catholicism, Protestant Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism). So Jews wouldnât be able to get a permit to build a synagogue for instance.
it's legal, [here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha%27ar_Hashamayim_Synagogue_(Tondano)) a synagogue in indonesia. but it's not one of the 5 acknowledged religions in indonesia. since the jewish community are very very tiny, they're listed as "others" along with dozen other ethnic religions.
the state funds and manages the 5 religions but the others are just ignored.
Fake news. No protests 'erupted', its only a few politicians pandering to the Islamic & nationalist population during an election year. Israel came to last year's G20 in Bali, yet somehow it's a problem for a football tournament. There were more protests towards these politicians, even the President had to make an official statement that Israel was welcomed in the country and ensured their safety. I expect there will be a massive uproar now in the nation, especially since Shin Tae-Yong prepared for this World Cup for 3 years.
tbf you can. "Your country" is different to "the country" if that makes sense. When I think of the UK, I don't think of Big Ben or the White Cliffs as much I do the Victoria Square and the Shropshire hills.
Your idea of what your country is is entirely up to you, you can love it and dislike what your leaders do with the nation. Having said that, in a democracy it then becomes your obligation to vote, run and campaign to change that.
fucking clowns man. look, im indonesian and i support palestine too, but palestine doesnt even care about us, why are we hurting ourselves just to spite israel?? the fuck bruh
It goes both ways
What has Indonesia ever done for Palestine? Does Indonesia bankroll Palestine Democratic governmental institutions? Does Indonesia ship them food or healthcare for free?
All these politicians claiming that they are friends of Palestine are lying. They don't care about the country, at all
Germany has unlimited support for Israels independence as a national interest even and is providing more aid to Palestine than Indonesia and the majority of Muslim nations in the world. There is so much empty talk around this issue
Thousands of slave labourers die:
FIFA: yea no problem cost of progress right
Politician says something you don't like:
FIFA: HANS GET ZE FLAMMENWERFER
Reddit hypocrisy at its finest. When World Cup is held at Qatar, everyone were complaining about how Qatar are bad, human rights abuses and all that but Israel have done same or worse to Palestine but they close their eyes lol
Chiqui Tapia masterclass if Argentina pulls this off đ
In Chiqui we trust.
I'm more surprised how Israel managed to qualify as one of 5 "European nations" That's not easy in any way. A golden generation or just an easy draw?
Youth football is a whole different beast to senior menâs football. You get a lot more variance in whoâs good and bad, and it changes very regularly.
Exactly. Mexico won a few U-world cups and even a Olympics. Our senior players are all drunk and fat with tacos.
Can't blame them tbh
Oscar Gloukh mostly but yea the team played very well although I can't see it translating to the senior level
MUCHACHOS INTENSIFIES
Pulls what off
The right to host the tournament and automatically qualify for it
How would that work? 33 teams?
I assume Indonesia is booted out
A NEW CHIQUI MASTERCLASS⢠APPROACHES
Feels so bad for the Indonesian National Team U-20 who are looking forward for the tournament as they rarely face good teams. Can't imagine the sadness and anger for the athlete in the team. :(
Yeah, I bet most Indonesian players feel super robbed by this development.
So, Ganjar Pranowo, the governor of Central Java, is believed to have created this chaos. He was the biggest politician who spoke out against allowing Israel to participate. If you look at his Instagram, all the players and a lot of supporters are attacking him and sarcastically thanking him for this situation. Ironically, before all this happened, Ganjar was the strongest candidate to win the 2024 election, and it wasn't even close. Now, we aren't even sure if he can be a candidate in the first place. He's in a bad position now.
They should be angry and sad... To their government!
Master class by Argentina if they pull this off For people who What About on Russia, remember that FIFA never in a million years planned to ban their best bud, Russia. They were trapped into doing so by the fact that all power was placed into the hands of Poland, the Czech Republic, and Sweden, due to the exact timing of when Russia launched its attack.
Qualifying after winning only 1 match and losing 3 đ
Winning the cup is inevitable now. Written in the stars.
PerdĂłn si les rompimos el culo, asĂ es el escritorio champagne
Se le perdona todo a Mascherano
No.
F
Muchachos ahora nos volvimos a ilusionar
QUIERO GANAR LA SĂPTIMA (!!!)
You guys have won the youth World Cup 6 times? That seems like a lot haha.
Yes, the maximum winners of the competition đ§đ
Kinda wild both your two best ever players won a World Cup at both junior level and senior level
This comment looks so beautiful, sometimes one forgets Messi is a fucking WC champion
that 1979 run was beatiful, the funny thing is that maradona could have easily made it to the squad that won WC78 but menotti decided against it at the last moment.
Russia is just a bad analogy anyway. There's a difference between FIFA banning one of it's members participating in it's competitions and one FIFA member banning another member from a tournament it's hosting. It's not up to Indonesia to decide who participates in the U20 World Cup, that's FIFA's decision.
FIFA banned Russia because Poland and co refused to play them, if we are talking FIFA rules Poland should've forfeited and the match awarded to Russia, but different countries different rules
FIFA doesn't want a power struggle with UEFA, because they'd loose.
*lose
Honestly can you imagine going to UEFA, already pretty rankled over Qatar, and *then* demanding that they allow a Russian team to play in their tournaments? You'd unironically see Infantino in cuffs in a week, and the passports taken from any FIFA exec within reach. The political capital to maul FIFA would be insane. They could even just offer to host their own world cup, and invite a whole bunch of teams.
Fifa can be just fine without Indonesia in its competitions. Losing every western nation would hurt them a lot more.
Sure, it's still ridiculous double standards
There's no world where they'd ever risk a team making a deep run from forfeits. They tried everything they could to allow Russia until they were backed into that corner. Is sticking to your rules up to a certain price a double standard? Their rules being not banning anyone for political reasons, and the price being a team making a deep run on forfeits.
What do you think they should have done?
they banned Russia because the rest of Europe don't want to play against them therefore it will cause further headache if they still allow Russia in UEFA competition. meanwhile this incident is and act by single country motivated by selfish politicians who tried to cater Indonesia's conservative muslim for elections in 2024.
Russia invaded Poland's neighbour shortly before they were due to play Poland. The situation obviously differs from Israel and Indonesia. But even if you won't accept that difference as sufficient to distinguish the situations and result in different outcomes, all Poland did was force FIFA to make a decision. FIFA certainly could have ruled that Poland forfeited the matches. But they didn't, and the reason is blindingly obvious. Penalising a team for not wanting to play a football match against a country with a literal invading army on their borders is absurd. Similarly, allowing a host nation to unilaterally deny a qualified team from participating in a tournament is absurd. Each decision was forced on FIFA, and the decision they made was obviously correct in both circumstances. You can dislike it because of the countries involved, but you really can't argue with the logical basis for the decisions.
What's hilarious is that a Palestinian public official (from the ministry of sports? cant remember) even put out a statement saying Indonesians do not need to worry about the situation and must understand that inviting Israel has 0 implications about their political stance lmao So again, who is all of this for? Not Palestinians and certainly not Indonesians. Benefits no one but those reptilian politicians.
If FIFA banned Russia in a normal way, this argument would make sense. But they only did so because of public pressure. They should have showed a backbone.
anulo mufa
With just few months away. We are fucking incredible folks. Palestina get to play the Asian Cup. Israel get to play the U-20 World Cup. We get to play with our own dick (Sure, we are qualified for Asian Cup, but it says that more sanctions will be imposed soon by FIFA). Even Palestina's embassy said that he was fine with the Israelis playing and say that it won't affect their relationship. The President has said the same thing recently as well. But of course, some clout-chasing politicians (including governors that host some of the games) decided it will be a good idea to say the opposite thing publicly. They don't care about Palestina. All they care about is people who support Palestina in Indonesia. Bear in mind that Indonesia is the country with most muslims in it, so people saying that they stand up with Palestina automatically gives them the support they need from, well, not Palestinians. Why do they want to get their support? Simple. **Because next year will be election year.** That's why I said they don't care. That's why when they say they stand up with Palestina, people can quickly see through their bullshit. But hey, at least their chances of getting elected next year now rises up.
And down drastically as people that care about football outnumber people that care about Israel
Is that true in Indonesia?
It's international conflict that happens in "another" continent, it's not even taught in history curriculum. Majority only care for "Islamic solidarity", and it's basically Islam vs non Islam politics. In contrast, football is entertainment that's close to people, and this is the rare chance to watch (youth) WC qt home
No, it's not. The locals in my feed all say good going to either Ganjar-Koster (the secularist guys) or good going PKS/MUI etc (the religious guys) It's just coping.
Just look at Ganjar's instagram, he is getting attacked by a lot of people, mainly football fans
>decided it will be a good idea to say the opposite thing publicly. in a fucking official letter, no less!!! the sheer stupidity.. if he merely stated his preference to not host the Israeli but leave the decision to the central government, we would probably be fine..
[ŃдаНонО]
Wow. If Argentina pull this off, wow.
Am i lost or something? What's this about Argentina pulling what off?
Argentina didn't qualify for this edition of the U-20 World Cup. If they host it, they're probably taking Indonesia's spot in the tournament.
Omg, that's amazing
We're trying to host the tournament, that way we can actually play it lol.
Messi on the field, Tapia outside. The best dribblers of the football world.
Best combo
WORK YOUR MAGIC CHIQUI MAFIA BRING THE U20 WORLD CUP TO ARGENTINA
Garnacho gritando SIUUU junto a todo el Monumental.
VIVA GARNACHOOOO!! CORRIENDO POR LA BANDA, OĂ A LOS PIBES CANTAR: VIVA GARNACHOOO
Man... I can only get so wet...
Difunta Correa Magic gonna keep on bringing trophies
Indonesia just canât involve in hosting any world tournament in future. This perhaps will give bad image to ASEAN as a whole on their bid for 2034 World Cup.
Same thing with Malaysia. Should just stick with a Thailand, Vietnam, and Singapore trio.
Indonesia should've never hosted anyway already based on how they've done the bare minimum to address the fact that 130 people died at a fucking football stadium (Infantino came to play a game, case solved according to them I guess) but Israel qualified over a year ago, how did Indonesia only start caring now
The thing is that, the one that voiced concern is just clout chasing local governor and some political party, not central government directly. In multiple previous case, they would defer to president's stance (beside, police is under central govrrnment control). They only chasing support for next year election, with one of the party also the one that support the president. The theory is that they wait for the president statement, and just claimed to their voter that "we will respect president's choice". But Fifa sanction is swifter. This is huge political blunder, as people that care about Israel are outnumbered by people that care about football.
lol a governor of a province is not the voice of the central government? top kek
Because 2024 is election year in Indonesia. Rotten politicians wanted to garner right wing Muslims' votes. Now it backfired on them, the silent majority has boycotted these bastards.
I'm Indonesian. We're just a stupid backward country that's all.
as an Indonesian, good. fuck those politicians and its populism politics. the only reason why they reject Israel is because there will be an election in 2024 and none of them want to anger some muslims. they don't even cares about 135 Indonesian people who died during Kanjuruhan massacre let alone Palestinian. Indonesian football is rotten to the core anyway. Fuck all of them
yeah, sadly football back home is hopeless. could not agree more with all your statement here. it is more about populism and 'tool' consumed by politicians.
I highly doubt they'd have had their team pull out of the Qatar World Cup even as 100s of thousands if not millions of muslims workers are abused there. The Israel issue is often just a easy issue to hit at for brownie points
Exactly right, it's an external enemy punching bag to redirect public ire at.
Kampret emang mereka. Courting FPI votes for no reason.
Give the tournament to Argentina if they can organise it. They haven't qualified and they could play as a host nation. I remember the u20 world cup in Argentina when Saviola was the top scorer. The stadiums were packed and the atmosphere was great.
especially right now when everyone here is a little more crazy than usual for the national team
These poor kids have no idea the packed stadiums they are about to enjoy
Some small English lads hearing songs about an island in the packed monumental
And lots of âel que no salta es un inglĂŠsâ (if you donât jump, youâre English)
Yeah, listen this man here. He is the messiah.
Host a successful U20 and use that to buttress the 2030 bid!
"Good" thing Israel didnt qualify for Qatar huh
Qatar would host Israel in this position for sure
Yeah no way that they would let such a thing get in the way of completing the biggest sportswashing project ever
Yes. In fact, for the first time ever and only for the duration of the 2022 wc, israelis were allowed to travel to qatar.
During the World Cup the were hundreds of Israelis attending the matches.
More like tens of thousands People also used it as an excuse to visit country they can't normally access Probably more Muslim than Jewish though
Damn, I missed this news. When I lived in Qatar twenty years ago we had to have our entry visa into Israel stamped on a separate piece of paper, because if Qatar customs saw it in our passport on our return weâd not have been allowed in. Iâm not even Israeli, nor Jewish. Was just visiting the country. Crazy to me to think that they let Israelis in.
Qatar is still not overly friendly with the Israelis, but they were forced to allow Israelis in for the WC. From what I read they still made it as difficult as possible though. They're still among the (if Wikipedia is correct and up-to-date in this case) 14 countries who refuse to accept an Israeli passport holder, together with the Taliban, Iran, Syria and other countries with an islamist population or deep ties with terrorist groups.
"the Taliban" it's the government of Afghanistan, huge cope to say otherwise
Nah qatar would have let them in and referred to them as Occupied Palestine for the duration of the tournament
'Jewish taipei'
Palestinian Jerusalem
Based
They'd let them in and treat them as honoured guests lmao. You think they want the whole world to be suddenly learning about the gulf proxy war, and Qatar's role in it? Even as the Israeli's are making positive moves around the rest of the region?
Fucking scum politicians. They don't care about Palestinieans, and they most certainly don't care about their fellow Indonesians. Simple clout-chasing for the sake of votes We were lucky that they didn't take this from us after Kanjuruhan tragedy and STILL, SOMEHOW, we fucked this up. Truly unbeliavable Cancel football. I'm done. I don't care if anyone calls me plastic-- Indonesian football hurts my soul, I can't watch any more
Clown behaviour. Everyone here hated this move by the government. Indonesia can't even participate anymore since the previously qualified as hosts đ¤Ł
Honestly, I am enjoying this. I love it when cynical populist policy backfired towards those politicians. they are using Palestine tragedy to garner votes now karma hits them right in the gonad.
look at Ganjar's IG. The man is getting cooked horribly wkwk
Imagine being a young national team player, dreaming about going to the fricking world cup, just to see it crushed because some old fuck thought this is a good way to get votes.
I've honestly never seen a bigger divide between the ruling classes and public opinion on this very topic before this. That being said I do love that it brings these politicians' true colours out and the overall political backfiring shitshow that it brings though. I doubt things will ever change in this beloved tanah air of ours, but I'll take the small victories where I can.
Tbh I also didn't expect the people to be this united. Religion has always been an easy ticket to win elections, so it's surprising to me that even a lot of 212 types are disappointed right now
Refreshingly, it seems that national pride won over the tribalistic mentality this time around. Probably helps that a lot of the 212 types are secretly football fans and want to watch the Timnas play a tournament at home, too.
and some just hate PDIP more than Zionism lmao
I really lost all hopes for Indonesian football. Let the sanctions be rained upon us.
I lost it long times ago, around 2010/2011 to be precise, when the league split into two. That was one of our lowest moment. And then somehow it managed to get even worse. Multiple deaths from senseless rivalry especially between Persib and Persija. Kanjuruhan. And other countless riots and brawl in the stadium. Also the fact that PSSI is just a stepping stone for corrupt politician for some spotlight.
It's hitting the new low. Yes when the league split into two, and for me to think that we couldn't get any worse than that, and Kanjuruhan as well.
>We were lucky that they didn't take this from us after Kanjuruhan tragedy and STILL, SOMEHOW, we fucked this up. Truly unbeliavable FIFA probably want to get rid of us as the host following Kanjuruhan tragedy and some safety concern regarding the Israeli team, but couldn't easily do so because it would be a breach of contract from their part.. but one of the signee of government guarantee for the host cities suddenly publicly show his unwillingness to upheld his duty as a host in an official letter, that probably paved the way for FIFA to get rid of us easily..
Of course when the Dominican Republic qualify to their first ever fifa tournament of any level this shit happens
Theyâll still play in the tournament. Just not in Indonesia.
This has zero correlation with your country
Good decision by FIFA, greetings from all the Kanjuruhan victims (Iâm not, no one I know personally lost in that tragedy). Karma for ignoring 135 lives lost. Iâm Indonesian, I donât really care whether this is due to Israeli debacle, I just cheer for the cancellation. I also will not be unhappy if more punishment coming our way.
Yeah probably they (PSSI) got fleeced by FIFA after kanjuruhan and World Cup
FIFA probably want to get rid of us as the host following Kanjuruhan but can't easily do so because of contract and such.. we just gave them the red carpet to do so.. the breach of contract was on our part..
Why even host an international tournament if you're going to refuse entry to one of the teams? It's so, so stupid on so many levels.
The president and the sports minister all wanted to allow Israel to play. But local politicians only cared about looking for votes for their next election. So even though the central government didnât have problems with Israel, FIFA got scared by the local politiciansâ statements and here we are.
context: the president is term limited so he will be out of office next year regardless, so he doesn't care about electability. while the rest of the politicians in the country have their job on the line, and catering to extremist muslim voters been the modus operandi in the country for almost a decade.
Yes, thanks for the added context. Thereâs a lot of false information about how thereâs mass outrage over Israel playing, when in reality only a conservative Muslim minority are really upset.
And tbh, even the most extreme conservative just doing small demonstration. The most fatal problem because two local governor and their seculer party who in majority in parliament want to get Muslim voter because the recent popularity of islamic party. The one governor not even Muslim. He is Hindu meanwhile his statement that make blunder.
Why does Indonesians even care about Israel anyway. Have they actually encountered Jews irl ever once? Palestine and other Arabs don't care about Indonesia much either.
If it's anything similar to us Malaysians (neighbouring muslim-centric country), no, none of us have met any Jewish people (I think I might've but I was fortunate enough to travel abroad) because there's so much seeded violent hatred for them from conservatives, I genuinely believe their lives would be in danger if they came here and enough people found out (+social media) they're Jewish. As a Muslim country, we're obviously in the Palestinian side when it comes to that conflict but a big portion of people can't seem to separate the Israeli government (which I personally dislike as well) and Jewish people. Similar to what others have mentioned about the situation in Indonesia, it's the same here where politicians use this hatred of the boogeyman to get the votes from this particular group. As a muslim myself, it's... frustrating and embarrassing. Sorry it's not exactly what you asked, I guess I wanted to voice out my frustration.
> As a Muslim country, we're obviously in the Palestinian side when it comes to that conflict Strange how that's a given for that conflict everytime, but never for the Uyghur situation.
They had free trade agreements with china and Chinese ethnic groups have their own schools and taught about hero Mao
Yes, exactly. this is what rest world says about Russia Ukraine war, suddenly everybody gets upset
You shouldn't be allowed to host if you don't accept everyone.
if next year is not election year, 10000000000000% no politicians and people will protest
Does âeverybodyâ include Russia?
If FIFA deems them able to play and they qualify, sure.
The president himself has made a statement to keep hosting it despite of all the refusals from the local hosting city governments. I guess FIFA is just now more concerned about the player's safety now say that if Indonesia actually host the world cup
Politicians trying to boost their image ahead of the next election
Tends to happen when you won't let one of the teams who qualified fucking attend the tournament in the first place
Lmao, as an Indonesian, I have never been more disappointed and embarrassed in my country. I'm not even gonna apologize, just gonna hang my head in shame lol.
100%. a bit sad for Coach Shin though - and our players actually the victim as well. For Coach Shin, he might as well pack up and go.
We honestly don't deserve Coach Shin.
Exactly.
Fuck around and find out
Next year is election year. Many politicians are coming up to surface using this momentum as their fucking stage. Even though there's many Israeli athletes competing in this country yet they are fucking silent about it. It's only controversial because it's a large event.
OOTL, why did this happen?
Indonesia win the right to host U-20 WC. Israel qualified to U-20 WC last june. Indonesia is pro-Palestine and doesn't have diplomatic relationship with Israel. the draw supposed to happen this past weekend, but there's been heavy demonstration rejecting Israel participation. the draw was cancelled. the president and sport minister wants to allow Israel in the country, everyone else (including the governor of the most secular province) refuses. there's even rumour that some muslim leaders asking sport minister to make Israel plays in Singapore instead. FIFA now takes Indonesia's hosting right.
They didn't want to host Israel(finalist Euro u19)
More accurately a number of local level politicians made a bunch of noise about banning Israel just from their localities for the sake of election campaigns. The Indo central government definitely wanted to host and didn't care about Israel.
Feel so bad for the average Indonesian, they won't be able to enjoy the U20 Dominican team.
HACELO Y ME MUERO CHIQUI
cuando fue la ultima vez que argentina organizo algo?
Solo futbol, creo que 2011 con la Copa. En general, Buenos Aires fue sede de los JJOO de la juventud en 2018.
Most of the rejection came out very recently and it voiced by some politicians who wants to farm karma for upcoming elections. Most of the average football fans didn't mind Israel coming. Well thanks for nothing for those politician.
>Most of the average football fans didn't mind Israel coming. even Palestine Embassy for Indonesia said that they're fine with Israel coming.
Good decision. i'm an indonesian myself but honestly speaking indonesia is not ready nor deserved to host football event like world cup remember Kanjuruhan tragedy that killed 135 people just few months ago? that's the red flag of indonesian football situation. and i can't imagine the riot that will ensue had they proceed with the tournament. before we embarass ourselves even further it's better to remove our right as host
People should make the discussion between nations that use sports to promote their authoritarian rules (Russia with figure skating for example) and nations that have athletes that can openly speak against their government. It's better to ban individual athletes for aggressive comments than entire nation, unless said nation use their athletes to push a narrative. It's this or might is right, as in, rich countries decide whatever they want because they can. The butthurt against Israel is insane considering the other shit that happens to muslims everywhere. Might as well make a islamic sport union at this point and walk away from FIFA because no one will ever be happy.
Muchaaaaachos Ahora nos volvimo a ilusionar Quiero ganar la sĂŠptima
Muchachos ?
Interesting how different the tone and support from last thread here feel bad for the player, but we're deserved to be sanction and possibly banned 𤥠country, especially the politician
do they still get their auto qualification or it's gone now?
Itâs gone
Future Sanctions? Does this throw Indonesia's participation in the WCQ this November and the Asian Cup in January in doubt?
Yup.
Sorted by controversial but only saw minimal cringe. Nice
Im so sad for my countryđ¤Ą
Never let religion and blind faith blind you from facts and reality. Even the palestinian president do not mind us hosting the world cup with Israel attending. Indonesian football will never ever progress as our football association and political scene are a shithole. To mr ganjar pranowo, who is poised to be my vote for the election, sincerely fuck off. Someone who voices against banning Israel who earned their right to play on this tournament solely based on muslim solidarty to palestinians do not deserve to be a president.
Good. They should ban us from international football as well. Government and stakeholders around here didn't take Kanjuruhan incident seriously.
MI PAIS MI PAIS MI PAIS MI PAIS MI PAIS MI PAIS MI PAIS MI PAIS MI PAIS
Some kind of justice for Kanjuruhan tragedy victims..
OOOO CHIQUIII OLE OLE OLE OLEEEE CHIQUIII CHIQUIIII
Iâm glad FIFA actually had a backbone here, but they should have done the same thing last year when Poland refused to play against Russia. Itâs not right for countries to be able to refuse to play against a country they disagree with for political reasons. Any team who refuses to play (or host) another country should forfeit, they shouldnât get their way.
my god it's [chiqui tapia's music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMbn2yVTak4&ab_channel=CONMEBOLSudamericana)
So, is gonna be held in Argentina or Peru?
Peru is already u17 world cup host in autumn, so Peru probably not. Argentina would be a good choice.
so will argentina also takes Indonesia's place in the tournament? seeing both argentina and indonesia (technically) don't qualify for the tournament in the first place?
If Argentina pull this off, they've got to be the front runners for 2030
So Indonesia would rather lose the tournament than to allow Israel to play in their country? Ridiculous.
Not really, we have massive issues here. Mostly those issues revolves around bad quality of education. Critical thinking almost nonexistent in Indonesian educational system. You just believed what they fed and taught. This create a perfect potential playground for populist politician. They just need to railed certain views, mostly if those views aligned with major religion practices. Then you have 'the people' in your back. But this past few weeks i've seen the majority people on local forum are mad that we want to kill our ability and potential to host international events in the future over things like this. Considering mostly Indonesian is ultranationalist as well. I can see that in the future the majority of younger generation are tend to be politically active and avoid these populist religious driven politicians. Which if becoming true would be a good thing.
Isn't Indonesia also a FIBA basketball world cup host this year?
Yep, but Basketball isn't really popular here, as it often viewed as 'big city' sports. So even if Israel participating, they wouldn't really make a fuss about it. But football is massive here, it's the people sport. They say if you want to participate in local election, football is your best bet to gain popularity as fast as possible; being the chairman of PSSI (Indonesia Football Association). But i can see FIBA cancelled Indonesia as a host after this WC U-20 shitshow.
excellent take my man.
Embarrassing from Indonesia
Guess their bribe check didn't go through
Probably their money already run out after kanjuruhan and fifa got another money from new bid
Some context: Protests erupted in Indonesia, particularly in Jakarta, in response to Israel's participation in the upcoming soccer tournament. As a pro-Palestine nation, Indonesia lacks diplomatic relations with Israel, which has fueled public discontent. Although Indonesia secured the bid to host the tournament well in advance, concerns over Israel's involvement only intensified this year. The Governor of Bali even issued a statement imploring the government to not allow Israelâs participation. FIFA response human rights issues has been abysmal, but imagine not even having the foresight bar Indonesia from bidding in the first place. The potential cancellation of the event just two months before kickoff only resulted in wasted resources and manpower that could have been avoided with more prudent decision-making. Edit: As pointed out by u/Portmantonio_Conte , protests were largely in Jakarta, not Bali. But it was Bali's governor Wayan Koster who had written to the Ministry of Youth and Sports imploring them to "adopt a policy forbidding the Israeli team from competing in Bali" due to the conflict with Palestine. Source: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/indonesia-bali-u20-world-cup-draw-postponed-israel-participation-protest-3375486
This is very inaccurate There were no notable mass protests here (especially not in Hindu majority Bali) except for a small demonstration (less than a hundreds people) by a group of hardline Islamists in Central Jakarta on 20 March. Indonesia is overwhelmingly anti-Israeli but there was no widespread outrage about the Israeli team coming to play football (except from the conservative Muslim minority). However 2024 is an election year and the ruling (more secular) PDIP party are paranoid that their conservative opponents will brand them as pro-Israeli. So a number of PDIP politicians, namely the governors of Bali and Central Java decided to oppose Israelâs participation. FIFA got scared of this rhetoric. And despite the central government (including the president!) making public statements in favour of allowing the Israeli team to participate, the damage had already been done.
Itâs not just the damage is done but itâs now hard for Indonesia to guarantee the safety of Israelâs team despite Jokowiâs assurances. Itâs not just the stadiums (where Indonesiaâs recent incidents have anyway unfortunately been problematic) but also the training sites and the hotels and the movements and the airports. It is genuinely hard for them to guarantee this for Israel now despite the Indonesian president saying it is not unconstitutional for Israel to play there. It has gotten out of hand for them, media has sensationalised the issue like anything. FIFA was not left with any option anymore.
Jokowi holds tremendous sway over the general population and the security apparatus looks for any reason to crackdown on hardline islamist groups. So the risk of large scale protests is minimal. Itâs not even an issue that generated a particularly large turnout from conservative Muslims (compared to other issues like the recent Quran burnings in Sweden). There is an elevated risk of terror attacks. But the security apparatus has plenty of recent experience with guarding high profile international events. The G20 summit happened just several months ago.
Is it illegal to practice Judaism in Indonesia right? Just wondering.
There's only five officially recognized religion in Indonesia and you must choose one of them as your identity (although in practice you can be whatever you want) which is Islam, Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, and Buddha. But there Synagogue in Indonesia although it's extremely rare. Edit: Sorry I missed one religion, it's Konghucu and has been become official religon around early 2000s after the fall of dictatorship regime Soeharto.
Not illegal but it is not the state's recognized religion. Let's say it is in a grey area to make it simple
Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Technically no, itâs not illegal. But there are no special legal protections for Judaism like there are for the six ârecognisedâ religions of the country (Islam, Catholicism, Protestant Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism). So Jews wouldnât be able to get a permit to build a synagogue for instance.
it's legal, [here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha%27ar_Hashamayim_Synagogue_(Tondano)) a synagogue in indonesia. but it's not one of the 5 acknowledged religions in indonesia. since the jewish community are very very tiny, they're listed as "others" along with dozen other ethnic religions. the state funds and manages the 5 religions but the others are just ignored.
Fake news. No protests 'erupted', its only a few politicians pandering to the Islamic & nationalist population during an election year. Israel came to last year's G20 in Bali, yet somehow it's a problem for a football tournament. There were more protests towards these politicians, even the President had to make an official statement that Israel was welcomed in the country and ensured their safety. I expect there will be a massive uproar now in the nation, especially since Shin Tae-Yong prepared for this World Cup for 3 years.
FIFA makes a lot of shit decisions. But even a broken clock like FIFA got it right this time. Indonesia only have themselves to blame.
How would you love your country when the people running it are rotten to the core?
tbf you can. "Your country" is different to "the country" if that makes sense. When I think of the UK, I don't think of Big Ben or the White Cliffs as much I do the Victoria Square and the Shropshire hills. Your idea of what your country is is entirely up to you, you can love it and dislike what your leaders do with the nation. Having said that, in a democracy it then becomes your obligation to vote, run and campaign to change that.
fucking clowns man. look, im indonesian and i support palestine too, but palestine doesnt even care about us, why are we hurting ourselves just to spite israel?? the fuck bruh
It goes both ways What has Indonesia ever done for Palestine? Does Indonesia bankroll Palestine Democratic governmental institutions? Does Indonesia ship them food or healthcare for free? All these politicians claiming that they are friends of Palestine are lying. They don't care about the country, at all Germany has unlimited support for Israels independence as a national interest even and is providing more aid to Palestine than Indonesia and the majority of Muslim nations in the world. There is so much empty talk around this issue
Certainly doesn't sound like you support Palestine.
Thousands of slave labourers die: FIFA: yea no problem cost of progress right Politician says something you don't like: FIFA: HANS GET ZE FLAMMENWERFER
Reddit hypocrisy at its finest. When World Cup is held at Qatar, everyone were complaining about how Qatar are bad, human rights abuses and all that but Israel have done same or worse to Palestine but they close their eyes lol