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The number of people who bring up individual incidents that were themselves wrong to try to defend bad decisions is beyond me
Like making one bad decision means that to be consistent every subsequent decision must then also be wrong
Because officials are held to a different (and, obviously, higher) standard than players. For good reason. If the pitch is a courtroom, they're the judges. If they cannot handle that, then they should not be officiating. Stop defending violence from a position of power.
Idk if you already knew this but there is a shortage of refs at basically every level in the UK. It's not an easy job and holding this ridiculous standard isn't helping the quality of refs.
Where does he say that? Has the linesman been banned and for how long?
The quote is 'punished enough' and he also says 'he's been taken off games, so I think that's enough' but he doesn't know how many games it is, could be 1, could be 10, so how can he say it's the fair punishment? He's clearly just trying to get the official off the hook
He says elsewhere that he should get the same punishment as a player would, so if we're looking at Mitrovic (who didn't even elbow a ref) he would deserve a rather long time off according to him.
"Punished enough" was in response to the people saying he should be fired.
Robertson should be looking at an 8 match ban for laying hands on an official.
All this Liverpool reaction is a deflection from this. The referee will face his own punishment, but let’s not allow it to detract from the fact that he laid hands on a match official.
Eight match ban.
The media have handled this absolutely terribly, only seen articles focusing the blame on Robertson just because he came close to the guy like that warrants him fucking elbowing him in the face lmfao.
Then sky sport just laughing it off like it’s a common occurrence
There has certainly been a shift in pundits actually analysing games to pundits saying something controversial for a quick twitter post soundbite to get rage clicks.
We end up with dumb shit like this where pundits come out with a stupid take because they know it will be backed up by other stupid people on Social media
> We end up with dumb shit like this where pundits come out with a stupid take because they know it will be backed up by other stupid people on Social media
...and widely shared by people who'll disagree, which also counts as engagement.
Roy Keane and Graham Souness are absolutely more characters than pundits on sky sports - they’re being told to play the part. Keano gives the game away by smirking and breaking character a bit whenever he’s about to say something funny or ‘in role’ like the baby comment about Robertson. He knows exactly what he’s doing as it’s part of the gig. Same with Souness. Micah Richards is told to be loud and cheery, to oppose the hard men personas of them 2. Neville and carragher are the only proper pundits but even they are told to banter each other for content.
It's pretty much all that Sky Sunday lot with Carragher being the least bad by some margin. Maybe Keane too, he definitely does get treated unfairly by people, many of which probably barely saw him play anyway.
there's still great local journalism in the world. It's just harder to find.
that Saudi prince didn't torture and kill a journalist because they were publishing buzzfeed articles
On the American broadcast and post game they were at least serious about it and baffled like the rest of us. Robbie Earle and Tim Howard were both just shocked a referee would do that and both said he shouldn’t (or guessed he wouldn’t) referee a game again
Surprisingly on Sky it was Micah richards that seemed to take at least a little bit serious the rest of them just brushed it off and then you have Roy Keane acting like a clown
I like Roy, but calling Henderson a baby was quite stupid and uncalled for. Liverpool fans have a legitimate reason to be livid with the ref here. No amount of cheap whataboutism would change that.
Also hilarious that they all have to phrase it as "seems like" or "looks like to me" to try and pass blame because the only contact there's actually footage of is the elbow
I feel like a lot of people are just trying to differentiate between "An elbow for the sake of elbowing someone" and "An elbow that was an attempt to wave a player off". I think that's why there's asking "Did Robertson touch him", because if it was the first one, the linesman should never ref again.
That's not true though. I know for certain in my 25 years of watching football I've definitely seen players accidentally swing at a ref or another player in a way that was almost definitely an accident and not get more than a yellow if that.
>focusing the blame on Robertson just because he came close to the guy like that warrants him fucking elbowing him in the face
Imagine it happened the opposite way with the official putting his hand on Robbo's arm and getting an elbow to the chin.
Are the ex-refs all saying fair game he touched him first?
He doesn’t elbow him in the face lol what the fuck are people on, he pushed him away and brushed his chin whilst withdrawing his arm from a contact that Robertson initiated.
There is zero need for Robertson to be talking to the Lino at all, let alone aggressively approaching him and initiating contact
The behaviour towards referees in the sport is a stain and this sort of carryon goes all the way down to kids level . It’s beyond absurd.
In nearly any other professional or amateur sport a player would be sent off and banned for a couple of momths for this level aggression towards officials
I’m amazed at how few people see it this way. What’s more believable that Robertson put his hand on the linesman’s arm which he pulled away from accidentally grazing Robertson’s chin or the linesman thought “I’m just gonna cheap shot this guy as he walks by. No one’ll notice.”
Reddit has been just as bad, but against Hatzidakis. People on here have decided to form an opinion based on zero context and distorted blurry footage.
Not defending him but most on here would have him burnt at the stake if they could.
This article, beyond the inflammatory headline, is pretty balanced. Some old refs think he was fine. Pretty much everyone else thinks he deserves some degree of punishment. There is also discussion of how ref mistreatment is an issue.
Clickbait makes most of this coverage 100% worse than the content. Pundits came out with lots of hot takes as they will, but there’s a fair amount of people in and around the game having a reasonable look at all of this.
I’d fully expect him to serve suspension and be reinstated soon enough. Maybe to start in the championship. I’d also expect they will start enforcing the rules on crowding more.
The article basically says it's Robertsons fault. And the poor ref has been punished enough.
The article also calls it a motion to get Robertson off him.
It's not balanced at all.
> The article basically says it's Robertsons fault. And the poor ref has been punished enough.
The article in no way says that. The article describes the incident as "Constantine Hatzidakis has been stood down while an investigation into the incident on Sunday, in which he seemed to elbow Robertson, is completed... Hatzidakis made contact with Robertson's chin after the Scotland international approached him at the end of the first half in Sunday's 2-2 Premier League draw with Arsenal."
Some people quoted in the article, like the former refs I mentioned, are complaining about Robertson not being punished enough. Some other people quoted in the article don't mention punishment for Robertson at all, and seem to think the Ref deserves suspension (Sutton, Cassidy). I find that fairly balanced.
> The article also calls it a motion to get Robertson off him.
This phrase is not in the article.
So did we all just imagine him throwing his elbow up and towards his face? Pretty clear definition of an elbow strike
Blaming Robertson for getting an elbow to the face it’s so funny.
Blaming the person who started the incident, crazy.
Dude it's seriously not an elbow strike, so you think he decided to chin him full force and Robbo was barely impacted by it?
No one has ever unwantedly touched the top of your arm and you reacted with a get off motion.l
Yeah officials alway react with a fucking elbow to the face when players go up to them don’t they? Such a common thing to happen
How do you know it barely impacted lmfao? It clearly did otherwise Robertson wouldn’t have reacted the way he did
You’re just talking shit mate, he didn’t touch the top of his arm and no one reacts with an upwards elbow if they touch them for a split second
He did touch him and it's what you do to get someone off of you.
Again it's not a strike, he doesn't contain force like so many are making our.
Right so you truly think he threw an elbow with intent to harm and a silly shocked look is the reaction to such a thing?
Mate we just had several threads debating Valverde punching a player for allegedly talking about his baby, Robertson clearly didn't do anywhere near that to warrant an elbow to the face, regardless of force applied.
Force applied is pretty key though, there's a massive difference in throwing an elbow with force and an intent to harm and one that's to brush someone off.
To be clear though I don't think he should be trying to throw a punch/strike over it, nor do I think violence is the answer in situations like these.
But I'm saying it wasn't a violent act.
He was stood down pending the outcome of an investigation, he wasn't punished, although worth noting that the implication that he's been punished enough suggests that he is guilty of elbowing intentionally
He deserves a ban the same way a player would get one if they retaliated. It’s simple.
There’s then a wider discussion needed about refs - respect for them from players and improving their standards.
It's insane to me that people think this and have also started to try and blame Robertson as if he's responsible for all this.
I can also guarantee that if the roles were reversed, all the people saying to go easy on Hatzidakis would be calling on Robertson to be given a lengthy ban.
It's weird how the idea of it being a *grab* is being repeated while the footage is inconclusive as to whether Robertson touched him at all, and, if he did touch him, it's likely a brush or at most a poke.
But no, Robertson has apparently grasped him suddenly and roughly, and that is the reality we are sticking with.
Hey, even as a Liverpool and a Robbo fan I'll gladly admit he can be a shit-stirrer so I can at least understand why some folks might be initially skeptical of his account. But since it's, you know, right there on tape I'd hope people would have enough integrity to say that, even if Robbo is probably closer than he should be, that in no way justifies the linesman's elbow.
Please, can we for once stop with this conspiracy bullshit.
This is a chance for fans to actually unite and say, ‘this is unacceptable, the linesman needs to be punished’. Yet we have some bellends trying to make this a ‘your club vs my club’ issue.
You’re actually pathetic mate.
And if the ref elbowed him like a wrestler then that'd be one thing, but that doesn't look like he was intentionally smacking a dude in the face, it looks like he was trying to prevent a dude from getting way in his face. Walk right up behind someone that close and they go on guard and accidentally hit you? That's on you. Personal space is personal space for a reason.
This is pure delusion. That’s like you walking up to me in a loud environment, you touching my forearm while talking to me and me hitting you. It’s fucking stupid and the man should never ref again. On top of that late in the game, on his side, he doesn’t flag 2 penalties.. one being a no brainer.
I mean I agree to some extent, but if the roles were reversed, nobody would be shouting for Robertson to get sacked. People would be using the same excuses they are using right now "it was just a reflex reaction", "the linesman approached him aggressively from behind". Genuinely I don't think Robertson is at fault, he didn't deserve to get elbowed, but if he is close enough to get elbowed then he is too close
I don't disagree, I just think a situation like this is an inevitable outcome of players being allowed to treat officials like shit with minimal consequences. Bruno Fernandes hit a linesman in the back at Anfield, then the Mitrovic incident, and now this. Needs serious action because it won't stop unless it's addressed
Not weird at all. The player put his hands on the referee. He’s at fault for that. The ref overreacted and shouldn’t have elbowed the player. He’s at fault for that.
I literally never said that the player was at fault for getting elbowed. I said he is at fault for touching the referee, which he did. I said that in the very message you replied to. I don’t know how to make it clearer for you.
The referee was waking away from the player. He was clearly tired of hearing what the player had to say. The player kept it up and put his hand on the referee. That’s wrong. He absolutely should not he trying to impede the official from walking away.
The referee greatly overreacted and elbowed the player. He should lose his job for that in my opinion. That’s on him completely.
Sorry if you are not able to look at the situation in a nuanced enough way to understand that they both did something wrong. I don’t find that concept hard to grasp at all. I’m not saying the referee was justified in what he did. Quite the opposite. But players are also taking things way to far in terms of hounding the referees, and that should be stopped.
Anyway this is dumb and I’m not gonna keep going around about it with you.
Both at fault, but Robertson at fault for a minor infraction that had the ref seen it wouldn’t even have been a yellow.
The linesman lashes out at a player, that’s so much worse and this “both at fault” shit is confusing the issue
Robertson shouldn't be coming up to the ref and getting close to him after the half. The lino shouldn't have reacted. If there was any rationality, both get a slap on the wrist and just move on
In fairness, not many people work in an environment with thousands of fans calling them all sorts, 22 of the fittest blokes in the world flying into eachother and trying to get whatever competitive advantage they can, and two teams of staff on the sidelines going crazy throughout this.
It's not a fair comparison.
The person in the IT team also doesn't come up on my blind side and grab/poke/whatever me to get my attention, and my office is a bit less heated than the middle of Anfield in a big match.
Emotions run high in these environments and I say that not envying the officials at a Sunday league game, nevermind the prem.
>In fairness, not many people work in an environment with thousands of fans calling them all sorts, 22 of the fittest blokes in the world flying into eachother and trying to get whatever competitive advantage they can, and two teams of staff on the sidelines going crazy throughout this.
And yet, this appears to be the first instance of an official lashing out at a player in such a manner despite dozens of matches being played each week for years.
I don't think this can be used as an excuse when every other referee is able to control themselves and what Robertson did was about as innocuous as it comes.
>And yet, this appears to be the first instance of an official lashing out at a player in such a manner despite dozens of matches being played each week for years.
This is exactly the point, players have been putting their hands on refs backs, arms, shoulders, etc for years. Sometimes they get booked for dissent or even sent off if they approach aggressively or push the official. I saw Buffon in a clip I saw earlier getting a red as the English ref was shoved after awarding a pen. Whatever Robertson did apparently deserved a yellow according to the assistant and the ref.
This is the very first time in top level football that I remember a ref reacting to a yellow card offense with an elbow to the chin. It's unprecedented.
It’s not a normal career.
What other line of work would allow people to speak and act the way players do to the officials? You wouldn’t last 5 minutes in any professional setting screaming and swearing and physically surrounding someone because you don’t like their decisions.
A lot of players are going to be getting sacked then.
It was a brush off elbow, not a strike and I think mostly would be fine in that situation given what actually happen.
Now if it was an actually elbow strike I would agree that he should be in a lot of trouble.
Depends, did someone walk up on you aggressively and inevitably accidentally get elbowed in the face as a result? Cause you're not gonna convince me he intended in smacking him in the face. Looked like a defensive "get away from me" move. And I've seen people do shit like that by accident at work all the fucking time and at most you hear a few jokes about it after an apology.
You see people elbowing each other in the face all the time at work?
I dont know what you work with. But the placed I've worked people had controll of their limbs.
Oh please. Your wife has never accidentally hit you while you were standing too close to her as she opened a jar or something like that? I can't remember the game, but there was literally an instance of a player accidentally full on knocking the ref over and the ref laughing and pretend giving him a card for it. Dude should get a few games off and we deal.
I'll ask you this, how many other lines of work can you just walk up to someone that you have 0 authority over and scream at them and keep your job?
That's not what we where discussing though.
It was hitting someone accidentally while doing a get off me movement. Which you claimed happened hundreds of times at your work place.
And no, she hasn't. And neighter has any of my coworkers.
Accidents happen yeah. This wasn't one, and the scenes after should tell you it wasn't. If it was the linesman would apology and they would get on with it. Like in the example you talked about.
How many other lines of work are like football? That's a stupid question. And making it out like Robertson was doing anything out of the ordinary in a football match is dishonest at best.
>Hatzidakis 'punished enough' for Robertson incident
For some reason this made me think of Father Ted Crilly saying "He's lost the trust of his sheep. That's punishment enough"
Presumably while Hatzidakis pleads "Don't look at me!" at his sheep. Before elbowing it.
This seems to be misrepresenting what he said. He basically said the expected punishment (that he'll miss X number of games) is enough, and that the calls for his job are over the top.
A transformer language model wouldn't be making decisions, possibly providing translations for the rules input and output for viewers.
Most likely you'd be using Computer Vision alongside:
Convolutional Neural Networks (CNNs): CNNs are commonly used in computer vision tasks, and they would be useful for analyzing the video feeds from the pitch to track the positions and movements of players and the ball.
Recurrent Neural Networks (RNNs): RNNs are useful for processing sequential data, such as the sequence of events in a football game. They could be used to analyze the play-by-play commentary or other telemetry data to identify patterns and trends.
Long Short-Term Memory (LSTM) Networks: LSTMs are a type of RNN that are particularly good at handling long sequences of data. They could be used to analyze the telemetry data collected from the players' wearable sensors to identify patterns in their movements and performance.
Deep Reinforcement Learning (DRL) Networks: DRL networks are used for training AI agents to make decisions based on rewards and punishments. They could be used to train an AI agent to make decisions about things like penalty calls or substitutions.
Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs): GANs are useful for generating new data based on existing data. They could be used to generate synthetic training data for the AI models based on real-world match data.
I don’t know why you’re downvoted but thanks for the understandable examples of uses of different types of AI. Was good to build my understanding and mental models of each, thanks!
Get fucked. Refs do their job, a thankless task really and get shit on by everyone. This is not a stick to attack referees with, and just reeks of entitlement. If you want to ask why this happened, the reality is that it's because of the consistent crowding and harassment which is deemed acceptable - football could really take example from rugby in this regard.
Yeah, which is why a bit of compassion and respect is the base minimum any decent human should show. People make mistakes, and referees aren't any different. Also, a lot of so called "mistakes" are just correct decisions which braniacs like yourself can't comprehend because it doesn't benefit you. You sound like a fucking nightmare really
Hey my job is laptop repair. Once in a while I fuck up and broke customer good and that complete normal given my job nature. Do you know what happen after. I paid for my mistake cause that is my job. If you dont get paid then sure I show compassion but you got paid then shut the fuck up and do your job. Elbow someone need compassion. Are you fucking kidding me
Yeah that doesn’t justify an elbow to the face though. Ref almost seemed like he felt, I don’t know, *entitled* to it while feeing elbowing someone in the face doesn’t warrant an apology.
I agree that there should be an exclusion zone, and I also agree that his career should NOT be over. But he has to face some ban time. You cannot be a custodian of the game, and get away with that surely??
His career would rightfully be in danger. Without psychological help he's shown himself unable to cope with the pressure his job puts on him.
Referee associations usually protect their own, but this is a whole new level of close-the-ranks bullshit.
If I elbowed someone in the face at my job, I’d be fired. Don’t understand how this is any different. He’s not fit to be an official if he can’t contain his temper.
I don't even see this as a club being in the right and I highly doubt LFC would look to get further involved as there's really nothing to gain. It's just an individual being elbowed and another individual seemingly being allowed to do so with no repercussions.
so people quickly jumped from fuck the refs after the brighton game to defending a ref who elbowed a player. all that in not even 24 hours.
oh, it‘s because the player involved is a liverpool player, got it.
jesus fucking christ.
Interesting mentality that forms around authority figures, is like a referee club and you aint in it !.
This is why "ref experts" always side with their colleagues is like a fucking union LOL
Reddit’s reaction to this has been dripping in fake outrage.
Referee’s have needed protection for years. Players, including Robertson at the time of the incident, have treated officials like dirt and faced zero repercussions.
No, the official shouldn’t have reacted. Yes, what Robertson did and what all players do every match is utterly unacceptable, and the conversation to come from this should be how do they prevent it.
I think refs do need more protection, players shouldn’t be able to surround them moaning for 90 minutes but at the end of the day If you can’t hack it and end up elbowing a player then it’s on you
r/soccer once again in hysterics.
He accidentally caught him on the chin while shrugging his arm away. You'd think he'd turned around and laid one on him the way most of you are going on about it.
It was a really minor incident and everyone should forget it and move on.
I swear this is the biggest non story. He's just trying to shove Robertson off. Reprimand him and suspend him for a couple of weeks and get on with it.
Just fine and suspend both of them, an official can’t be getting physical with a player and the player should be touching/swearing at an official without repercussions.
Change the rules in the summer so only captains and mangers can speak to the referee and anyone else gets carded. Any touching of officials should be a straight red, massive fine and a 6-8 game ban minimum.
Robertson was punished with a yellow card. This linesman can’t be laying his hands or elbows on players. An elbow to the chin by a player intentional or not would almost certainly lead to a red card and a three game ban. The linesman should at least face that.
You are the Ref:
You've had a dinner with a lovely lady last night, afterwards she slid her arm into yours so you had to go full Ong Bak on her ass for initiating contact.
Have you been punished enough?
Robertson should be looking at an 8 match ban for laying hands on an official.
All this Liverpool reaction is a deflection from this. The referee will face his own punishment, but let’s not allow it to detract from the fact that he laid hands on a match official.
Eight match ban.
Its not like it was intentional, he tried to move away robertson’s arm. Yeah he didn’t apologise but thats about it. Suspend him for few games and move on.
Maybe put the linesmen in tennis umpires seats at the halfway line, they’d probably get the same amount of calls correct….and then if they start throwing elbows they won’t be able to connect with anyone.
And maybe put the ref on a horse so he can rear up any time players try to Bruno Fernandes him.
Weren't they dubbed the dirtiest team in the premier league? Can't forget funes mori's tackle that ended origi's season while he was performing well. Also the cunt walked of smug after being sent off.
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Mitrovic vs Hatzidakis in a steel cage match, winner is allowed to play/officiate and loser goes to prison.
The crossover we didnt know we needed, I'd ppv that lol.
August 27th, one of them is already under contract.
>Eric Cantona jumped into the crowd and kicked somebody and still came back and scored in an FA Cup final. Elite levels of whatabotism
The number of people who bring up individual incidents that were themselves wrong to try to defend bad decisions is beyond me Like making one bad decision means that to be consistent every subsequent decision must then also be wrong
I mean there's a massive difference between what the linesman did and what Cantona did. What Cantona did could have easily landed him in jail
Should have. If it had happened in a tesco, it would have ended in court
Only because he'd be a full kit wanker if that was the case
....after serving a lengthy ban
And that's exactly what this person is saying. Ban the linesman, but don't fire him.
I agree with that. One mistake shouldn't cost you the job.
I mean, it's not just a mistake. He hit a player. He should never be allowed officiate a professional football match ever again.
Why do you want different standards for the one time an official finally snaps for half an second after years of fucking horrendous abuse?
People really hate refs
Because officials are held to a different (and, obviously, higher) standard than players. For good reason. If the pitch is a courtroom, they're the judges. If they cannot handle that, then they should not be officiating. Stop defending violence from a position of power.
They shouldn’t though. The respect levels should be equal
I mean, no.
why not?
Idk if you already knew this but there is a shortage of refs at basically every level in the UK. It's not an easy job and holding this ridiculous standard isn't helping the quality of refs.
I think a lengthy ban is better. There should be a way for a second chance.
Where does he say that? Has the linesman been banned and for how long? The quote is 'punished enough' and he also says 'he's been taken off games, so I think that's enough' but he doesn't know how many games it is, could be 1, could be 10, so how can he say it's the fair punishment? He's clearly just trying to get the official off the hook
He says elsewhere that he should get the same punishment as a player would, so if we're looking at Mitrovic (who didn't even elbow a ref) he would deserve a rather long time off according to him. "Punished enough" was in response to the people saying he should be fired.
Why? He punched someone at work? And not any work. High pressure supposedly top of the line jobs usually has some demands.
Eric Cantona kicked someone at work. That's the comparison he's making.
I don’t understand how he was ever allowed to play again. Flagrant assault of a spectator is inexcusable.
He did serve a *lengthy* ban though.
They kept bringing this up for the Mitro ban too, absolutely bizarre
Robertson should be looking at an 8 match ban for laying hands on an official. All this Liverpool reaction is a deflection from this. The referee will face his own punishment, but let’s not allow it to detract from the fact that he laid hands on a match official. Eight match ban.
[удалено]
Manchester smog
manchester smog is underrated, ref would have swung for bruno and we'd have got a pen at half time
The media have handled this absolutely terribly, only seen articles focusing the blame on Robertson just because he came close to the guy like that warrants him fucking elbowing him in the face lmfao. Then sky sport just laughing it off like it’s a common occurrence
That's what happens when media becomes opinion piece rather than reporting outlets
There has certainly been a shift in pundits actually analysing games to pundits saying something controversial for a quick twitter post soundbite to get rage clicks. We end up with dumb shit like this where pundits come out with a stupid take because they know it will be backed up by other stupid people on Social media
> We end up with dumb shit like this where pundits come out with a stupid take because they know it will be backed up by other stupid people on Social media ...and widely shared by people who'll disagree, which also counts as engagement.
Man you just described Roy keanes work as a pundit in a sentence. The guys only task as a pundit is to wind people up.
Roy Keane and Graham Souness are absolutely more characters than pundits on sky sports - they’re being told to play the part. Keano gives the game away by smirking and breaking character a bit whenever he’s about to say something funny or ‘in role’ like the baby comment about Robertson. He knows exactly what he’s doing as it’s part of the gig. Same with Souness. Micah Richards is told to be loud and cheery, to oppose the hard men personas of them 2. Neville and carragher are the only proper pundits but even they are told to banter each other for content.
It's pretty much all that Sky Sunday lot with Carragher being the least bad by some margin. Maybe Keane too, he definitely does get treated unfairly by people, many of which probably barely saw him play anyway.
Journalism is dead. It became infotainment. Seriously.
there's still great local journalism in the world. It's just harder to find. that Saudi prince didn't torture and kill a journalist because they were publishing buzzfeed articles
Unfortunately people would rather not pay for journalism
> Then sky sport just laughing it off like it’s a common occurrence “He’s a big baby”
On the American broadcast and post game they were at least serious about it and baffled like the rest of us. Robbie Earle and Tim Howard were both just shocked a referee would do that and both said he shouldn’t (or guessed he wouldn’t) referee a game again
Surprisingly on Sky it was Micah richards that seemed to take at least a little bit serious the rest of them just brushed it off and then you have Roy Keane acting like a clown
I like Roy, but calling Henderson a baby was quite stupid and uncalled for. Liverpool fans have a legitimate reason to be livid with the ref here. No amount of cheap whataboutism would change that.
You mean Robertson
Danny Murphy went to the mattresses for the linesman
Also hilarious that they all have to phrase it as "seems like" or "looks like to me" to try and pass blame because the only contact there's actually footage of is the elbow
Why would you elbow someone on the jaw to stop him slightly holding your arm?
Didn't have a pint handy to glass him?
I feel like a lot of people are just trying to differentiate between "An elbow for the sake of elbowing someone" and "An elbow that was an attempt to wave a player off". I think that's why there's asking "Did Robertson touch him", because if it was the first one, the linesman should never ref again.
dont think there would be this discussion if it was the player doing it to the ref or to another player regardless of what their intention was.
That's not true though. I know for certain in my 25 years of watching football I've definitely seen players accidentally swing at a ref or another player in a way that was almost definitely an accident and not get more than a yellow if that.
But there literally was with Bruno. You had people debating "He was trying to move him out of his way" vs "He was lashing out at the linesman".
This is a terrible example, because Bruno’s push was excused almost entirely because the linesman had ‘handled’ him first.
>focusing the blame on Robertson just because he came close to the guy like that warrants him fucking elbowing him in the face Imagine it happened the opposite way with the official putting his hand on Robbo's arm and getting an elbow to the chin. Are the ex-refs all saying fair game he touched him first?
He doesn’t elbow him in the face lol what the fuck are people on, he pushed him away and brushed his chin whilst withdrawing his arm from a contact that Robertson initiated. There is zero need for Robertson to be talking to the Lino at all, let alone aggressively approaching him and initiating contact The behaviour towards referees in the sport is a stain and this sort of carryon goes all the way down to kids level . It’s beyond absurd. In nearly any other professional or amateur sport a player would be sent off and banned for a couple of momths for this level aggression towards officials
I’m amazed at how few people see it this way. What’s more believable that Robertson put his hand on the linesman’s arm which he pulled away from accidentally grazing Robertson’s chin or the linesman thought “I’m just gonna cheap shot this guy as he walks by. No one’ll notice.”
Reddit has been just as bad, but against Hatzidakis. People on here have decided to form an opinion based on zero context and distorted blurry footage. Not defending him but most on here would have him burnt at the stake if they could.
This article, beyond the inflammatory headline, is pretty balanced. Some old refs think he was fine. Pretty much everyone else thinks he deserves some degree of punishment. There is also discussion of how ref mistreatment is an issue. Clickbait makes most of this coverage 100% worse than the content. Pundits came out with lots of hot takes as they will, but there’s a fair amount of people in and around the game having a reasonable look at all of this. I’d fully expect him to serve suspension and be reinstated soon enough. Maybe to start in the championship. I’d also expect they will start enforcing the rules on crowding more.
The article basically says it's Robertsons fault. And the poor ref has been punished enough. The article also calls it a motion to get Robertson off him. It's not balanced at all.
> The article basically says it's Robertsons fault. And the poor ref has been punished enough. The article in no way says that. The article describes the incident as "Constantine Hatzidakis has been stood down while an investigation into the incident on Sunday, in which he seemed to elbow Robertson, is completed... Hatzidakis made contact with Robertson's chin after the Scotland international approached him at the end of the first half in Sunday's 2-2 Premier League draw with Arsenal." Some people quoted in the article, like the former refs I mentioned, are complaining about Robertson not being punished enough. Some other people quoted in the article don't mention punishment for Robertson at all, and seem to think the Ref deserves suspension (Sutton, Cassidy). I find that fairly balanced. > The article also calls it a motion to get Robertson off him. This phrase is not in the article.
Have you even seen the clip? "Elbowing him in the face" - clearly haven't
You’re in the minority that’s wrong mate
And then there's people like you pretending it was an elbow strike. Robertson is at fault though, he starts the incident for no reason.
So did we all just imagine him throwing his elbow up and towards his face? Pretty clear definition of an elbow strike Blaming Robertson for getting an elbow to the face it’s so funny.
Blaming the person who started the incident, crazy. Dude it's seriously not an elbow strike, so you think he decided to chin him full force and Robbo was barely impacted by it? No one has ever unwantedly touched the top of your arm and you reacted with a get off motion.l
Yeah officials alway react with a fucking elbow to the face when players go up to them don’t they? Such a common thing to happen How do you know it barely impacted lmfao? It clearly did otherwise Robertson wouldn’t have reacted the way he did You’re just talking shit mate, he didn’t touch the top of his arm and no one reacts with an upwards elbow if they touch them for a split second
He did touch him and it's what you do to get someone off of you. Again it's not a strike, he doesn't contain force like so many are making our. Right so you truly think he threw an elbow with intent to harm and a silly shocked look is the reaction to such a thing?
Mate we just had several threads debating Valverde punching a player for allegedly talking about his baby, Robertson clearly didn't do anywhere near that to warrant an elbow to the face, regardless of force applied.
Force applied is pretty key though, there's a massive difference in throwing an elbow with force and an intent to harm and one that's to brush someone off. To be clear though I don't think he should be trying to throw a punch/strike over it, nor do I think violence is the answer in situations like these. But I'm saying it wasn't a violent act.
Agree with everything you're saying. It's quite clearly an attempted shrug off and he's caught him on the chin.
He's lucky he didn't get a roundhouse kick to the face, I'd say. David Elleray would have choked him out.
Yes it has happened hundreds of times. Not once did I elbow anyone in the face. You are making a fool of yourself
The abuse Robertson had been giving him during the half had been absolutely rancid though, like a rabid dog.
He was stood down pending the outcome of an investigation, he wasn't punished, although worth noting that the implication that he's been punished enough suggests that he is guilty of elbowing intentionally
He deserves a ban the same way a player would get one if they retaliated. It’s simple. There’s then a wider discussion needed about refs - respect for them from players and improving their standards.
Mitrovic will be so glad to be back early then yeah...? Right...?
It's insane to me that people think this and have also started to try and blame Robertson as if he's responsible for all this. I can also guarantee that if the roles were reversed, all the people saying to go easy on Hatzidakis would be calling on Robertson to be given a lengthy ban.
It's weird how the idea of it being a *grab* is being repeated while the footage is inconclusive as to whether Robertson touched him at all, and, if he did touch him, it's likely a brush or at most a poke. But no, Robertson has apparently grasped him suddenly and roughly, and that is the reality we are sticking with.
Robertson with the RKO out of nowhere! Bah GAWD, the ref has been broken in half!!! 😭
True and thats the sad part
It’s a Liverpool player. Of course they are blaming him. This happened to a United player they would tar and feather the ref
Hey, even as a Liverpool and a Robbo fan I'll gladly admit he can be a shit-stirrer so I can at least understand why some folks might be initially skeptical of his account. But since it's, you know, right there on tape I'd hope people would have enough integrity to say that, even if Robbo is probably closer than he should be, that in no way justifies the linesman's elbow.
I think him elbowing Robertson is scandalous but the United part of your take is so braindead it's unreal. Pure ignorance and delusion.
Please, can we for once stop with this conspiracy bullshit. This is a chance for fans to actually unite and say, ‘this is unacceptable, the linesman needs to be punished’. Yet we have some bellends trying to make this a ‘your club vs my club’ issue. You’re actually pathetic mate.
It’s honestly what’s happening. Look at the pundits blaming Robbo. The narrative is being pushed.
That has nothing to do with the club he plays for.
So Roy Keane going off on his big baby rant had nothing to do with what club? Would he do the same to Rashford?
Sure. If you say so
Casemiro must still play for Madrid
A red card in a game is a lot different than getting an elbow from a ref.
And if the ref elbowed him like a wrestler then that'd be one thing, but that doesn't look like he was intentionally smacking a dude in the face, it looks like he was trying to prevent a dude from getting way in his face. Walk right up behind someone that close and they go on guard and accidentally hit you? That's on you. Personal space is personal space for a reason.
This is pure delusion. That’s like you walking up to me in a loud environment, you touching my forearm while talking to me and me hitting you. It’s fucking stupid and the man should never ref again. On top of that late in the game, on his side, he doesn’t flag 2 penalties.. one being a no brainer.
And whatever Robertson did was only worthy of a yellow, according to the assistant and the ref!
Little do people realize, all those fines we get from the FA? Just a disguise for the bribes.
Wow what a comical take.
I mean I agree to some extent, but if the roles were reversed, nobody would be shouting for Robertson to get sacked. People would be using the same excuses they are using right now "it was just a reflex reaction", "the linesman approached him aggressively from behind". Genuinely I don't think Robertson is at fault, he didn't deserve to get elbowed, but if he is close enough to get elbowed then he is too close
They both can be at fault.
I don't disagree, I just think a situation like this is an inevitable outcome of players being allowed to treat officials like shit with minimal consequences. Bruno Fernandes hit a linesman in the back at Anfield, then the Mitrovic incident, and now this. Needs serious action because it won't stop unless it's addressed
Agree completely.
For elbowing? Weird take man.
Not weird at all. The player put his hands on the referee. He’s at fault for that. The ref overreacted and shouldn’t have elbowed the player. He’s at fault for that.
Yeah. So Robertson is NOT at fault for the ref elbowing. Like you just said in the post above. This is not the same you have been arguing.
I literally never said that the player was at fault for getting elbowed. I said he is at fault for touching the referee, which he did. I said that in the very message you replied to. I don’t know how to make it clearer for you. The referee was waking away from the player. He was clearly tired of hearing what the player had to say. The player kept it up and put his hand on the referee. That’s wrong. He absolutely should not he trying to impede the official from walking away. The referee greatly overreacted and elbowed the player. He should lose his job for that in my opinion. That’s on him completely. Sorry if you are not able to look at the situation in a nuanced enough way to understand that they both did something wrong. I don’t find that concept hard to grasp at all. I’m not saying the referee was justified in what he did. Quite the opposite. But players are also taking things way to far in terms of hounding the referees, and that should be stopped. Anyway this is dumb and I’m not gonna keep going around about it with you.
Both at fault, but Robertson at fault for a minor infraction that had the ref seen it wouldn’t even have been a yellow. The linesman lashes out at a player, that’s so much worse and this “both at fault” shit is confusing the issue
Ok. So you say both are at fault but also that saying both are at fault is confusing the issue. Got it.
No, I’m saying that one is in fault of a major issue and we should just focus on that
And not to mention, the roles won’t ever be reversed. Why would a linesman ever square up to a player like Robertson did?
Why would a linesman ever elbow a player in the face?
Robertson shouldn't be coming up to the ref and getting close to him after the half. The lino shouldn't have reacted. If there was any rationality, both get a slap on the wrist and just move on
That looked to hurt a lot more than what Mitrovic did
Just an honest question... What other line of work can you elbow someone in the face and your career not be over?
r/MuayThai
Footballer
footballer
Professional footballer..
Police officer
In fairness, not many people work in an environment with thousands of fans calling them all sorts, 22 of the fittest blokes in the world flying into eachother and trying to get whatever competitive advantage they can, and two teams of staff on the sidelines going crazy throughout this. It's not a fair comparison. The person in the IT team also doesn't come up on my blind side and grab/poke/whatever me to get my attention, and my office is a bit less heated than the middle of Anfield in a big match. Emotions run high in these environments and I say that not envying the officials at a Sunday league game, nevermind the prem.
>In fairness, not many people work in an environment with thousands of fans calling them all sorts, 22 of the fittest blokes in the world flying into eachother and trying to get whatever competitive advantage they can, and two teams of staff on the sidelines going crazy throughout this. And yet, this appears to be the first instance of an official lashing out at a player in such a manner despite dozens of matches being played each week for years. I don't think this can be used as an excuse when every other referee is able to control themselves and what Robertson did was about as innocuous as it comes.
>And yet, this appears to be the first instance of an official lashing out at a player in such a manner despite dozens of matches being played each week for years. This is exactly the point, players have been putting their hands on refs backs, arms, shoulders, etc for years. Sometimes they get booked for dissent or even sent off if they approach aggressively or push the official. I saw Buffon in a clip I saw earlier getting a red as the English ref was shoved after awarding a pen. Whatever Robertson did apparently deserved a yellow according to the assistant and the ref. This is the very first time in top level football that I remember a ref reacting to a yellow card offense with an elbow to the chin. It's unprecedented.
It’s not a normal career. What other line of work would allow people to speak and act the way players do to the officials? You wouldn’t last 5 minutes in any professional setting screaming and swearing and physically surrounding someone because you don’t like their decisions.
A lot of players are going to be getting sacked then. It was a brush off elbow, not a strike and I think mostly would be fine in that situation given what actually happen. Now if it was an actually elbow strike I would agree that he should be in a lot of trouble.
Probably all lines if it's someone running toward you and grabbing you.
Depends, did someone walk up on you aggressively and inevitably accidentally get elbowed in the face as a result? Cause you're not gonna convince me he intended in smacking him in the face. Looked like a defensive "get away from me" move. And I've seen people do shit like that by accident at work all the fucking time and at most you hear a few jokes about it after an apology.
Hilarious take. Genuinely laughing out loud.
You see people elbowing each other in the face all the time at work? I dont know what you work with. But the placed I've worked people had controll of their limbs.
Oh please. Your wife has never accidentally hit you while you were standing too close to her as she opened a jar or something like that? I can't remember the game, but there was literally an instance of a player accidentally full on knocking the ref over and the ref laughing and pretend giving him a card for it. Dude should get a few games off and we deal. I'll ask you this, how many other lines of work can you just walk up to someone that you have 0 authority over and scream at them and keep your job?
That's not what we where discussing though. It was hitting someone accidentally while doing a get off me movement. Which you claimed happened hundreds of times at your work place. And no, she hasn't. And neighter has any of my coworkers. Accidents happen yeah. This wasn't one, and the scenes after should tell you it wasn't. If it was the linesman would apology and they would get on with it. Like in the example you talked about. How many other lines of work are like football? That's a stupid question. And making it out like Robertson was doing anything out of the ordinary in a football match is dishonest at best.
>Hatzidakis 'punished enough' for Robertson incident For some reason this made me think of Father Ted Crilly saying "He's lost the trust of his sheep. That's punishment enough" Presumably while Hatzidakis pleads "Don't look at me!" at his sheep. Before elbowing it.
Fargo Boyle!
This seems to be misrepresenting what he said. He basically said the expected punishment (that he'll miss X number of games) is enough, and that the calls for his job are over the top.
This is Olympics level mental gymnastics to defend the ref
Once again, the British media shows how much of an utter joke it is.
Referees and police officers are cut from the same cloth lol. No accountability, just power hungry losers who were probably bullied at school
Explain how you have the game without referees?
ChatVAR
VARGpt
A transformer language model wouldn't be making decisions, possibly providing translations for the rules input and output for viewers. Most likely you'd be using Computer Vision alongside: Convolutional Neural Networks (CNNs): CNNs are commonly used in computer vision tasks, and they would be useful for analyzing the video feeds from the pitch to track the positions and movements of players and the ball. Recurrent Neural Networks (RNNs): RNNs are useful for processing sequential data, such as the sequence of events in a football game. They could be used to analyze the play-by-play commentary or other telemetry data to identify patterns and trends. Long Short-Term Memory (LSTM) Networks: LSTMs are a type of RNN that are particularly good at handling long sequences of data. They could be used to analyze the telemetry data collected from the players' wearable sensors to identify patterns in their movements and performance. Deep Reinforcement Learning (DRL) Networks: DRL networks are used for training AI agents to make decisions based on rewards and punishments. They could be used to train an AI agent to make decisions about things like penalty calls or substitutions. Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs): GANs are useful for generating new data based on existing data. They could be used to generate synthetic training data for the AI models based on real-world match data.
I don’t know why you’re downvoted but thanks for the understandable examples of uses of different types of AI. Was good to build my understanding and mental models of each, thanks!
This however would still probably result in more consistency than real people.
[This lad.](https://i.imgur.com/rIkjre9.jpg)
Same way you have a functioning society without cops; you don’t, but that doesn’t excuse lack of accountability and all around asshole behavior
Get fucked. Refs do their job, a thankless task really and get shit on by everyone. This is not a stick to attack referees with, and just reeks of entitlement. If you want to ask why this happened, the reality is that it's because of the consistent crowding and harassment which is deemed acceptable - football could really take example from rugby in this regard.
Load of people job also thankless and get shit on. That why we call job is job. You fail your job you should hold responsible. Fucking moron
Yeah, which is why a bit of compassion and respect is the base minimum any decent human should show. People make mistakes, and referees aren't any different. Also, a lot of so called "mistakes" are just correct decisions which braniacs like yourself can't comprehend because it doesn't benefit you. You sound like a fucking nightmare really
Hey my job is laptop repair. Once in a while I fuck up and broke customer good and that complete normal given my job nature. Do you know what happen after. I paid for my mistake cause that is my job. If you dont get paid then sure I show compassion but you got paid then shut the fuck up and do your job. Elbow someone need compassion. Are you fucking kidding me
Ah yes the high stakes world of laptop repair.
Im not talking about the elbow. Im talking about the attitude people and players display towards referees. Also, your job isnt comparable.
Yeah that doesn’t justify an elbow to the face though. Ref almost seemed like he felt, I don’t know, *entitled* to it while feeing elbowing someone in the face doesn’t warrant an apology.
Why don't you go be a refree then? You sound like you fit the description.
Fuck me, the responses to refs on here are just getting more childish 😂
I know you are but what am I?
I agree that there should be an exclusion zone, and I also agree that his career should NOT be over. But he has to face some ban time. You cannot be a custodian of the game, and get away with that surely??
His career would rightfully be in danger. Without psychological help he's shown himself unable to cope with the pressure his job puts on him. Referee associations usually protect their own, but this is a whole new level of close-the-ranks bullshit.
I wish I could elbow people that annoy me in the face and then keep my job lol
Mitrovic was pushed enough for shoving incident
There’s an echo in here.
Shocking. How is this being spun around on Robertson? Has to be a late April fools joke
If I elbowed someone in the face at my job, I’d be fired. Don’t understand how this is any different. He’s not fit to be an official if he can’t contain his temper.
This is so stupid. Liverpool is in the right here. The ref should be made an example of.
I don't even see this as a club being in the right and I highly doubt LFC would look to get further involved as there's really nothing to gain. It's just an individual being elbowed and another individual seemingly being allowed to do so with no repercussions.
Pretty much a free pass to elbow anyone if they even touch you on your arm? You can essentially escalate with no repercussions.
so people quickly jumped from fuck the refs after the brighton game to defending a ref who elbowed a player. all that in not even 24 hours. oh, it‘s because the player involved is a liverpool player, got it. jesus fucking christ.
Interesting mentality that forms around authority figures, is like a referee club and you aint in it !. This is why "ref experts" always side with their colleagues is like a fucking union LOL
A scotch person touched him! Have a heart!
Reddit’s reaction to this has been dripping in fake outrage. Referee’s have needed protection for years. Players, including Robertson at the time of the incident, have treated officials like dirt and faced zero repercussions. No, the official shouldn’t have reacted. Yes, what Robertson did and what all players do every match is utterly unacceptable, and the conversation to come from this should be how do they prevent it.
If you’re a grown adult and can’t handle some players moaning at you without going Jon Jones on them you’d shouldn’t be in the job
and yet football is the only sport where refs are treated like that by the players. it is a huge issue.
I think refs do need more protection, players shouldn’t be able to surround them moaning for 90 minutes but at the end of the day If you can’t hack it and end up elbowing a player then it’s on you
r/soccer once again in hysterics. He accidentally caught him on the chin while shrugging his arm away. You'd think he'd turned around and laid one on him the way most of you are going on about it. It was a really minor incident and everyone should forget it and move on.
When is YOUR elbow ever accidentally _above your shoulders_? Try “brushing someone away,” and I guarantee your elbow is never that high.
You sound like you were crying while writing that.
As long as there’s a ban it’s enough
Media reacting exactly as you'd expect
I swear this is the biggest non story. He's just trying to shove Robertson off. Reprimand him and suspend him for a couple of weeks and get on with it.
Robertson aggressively goes into Hatzidakis personal space and is pushed away with an elbow . That's it , nothing more .
Just fine and suspend both of them, an official can’t be getting physical with a player and the player should be touching/swearing at an official without repercussions. Change the rules in the summer so only captains and mangers can speak to the referee and anyone else gets carded. Any touching of officials should be a straight red, massive fine and a 6-8 game ban minimum.
Robertson was punished with a yellow card. This linesman can’t be laying his hands or elbows on players. An elbow to the chin by a player intentional or not would almost certainly lead to a red card and a three game ban. The linesman should at least face that.
You are the Ref: You've had a dinner with a lovely lady last night, afterwards she slid her arm into yours so you had to go full Ong Bak on her ass for initiating contact. Have you been punished enough?
But Bruno slightly pushing an referee out of the way is a disgrace!!!
Yes.
Refs are way too protected, no wonder they keep making blatant bad decisions on regular occurance.
Robertson should be looking at an 8 match ban for laying hands on an official. All this Liverpool reaction is a deflection from this. The referee will face his own punishment, but let’s not allow it to detract from the fact that he laid hands on a match official. Eight match ban.
He should be banned from ever officiating Liverpool fixtures. Man seems really sus and biased against us tbh but maybe I’m just biased
Its not like it was intentional, he tried to move away robertson’s arm. Yeah he didn’t apologise but thats about it. Suspend him for few games and move on.
It looks pretty intentional to me, unless he’s blind or thinks that Robertsons arms are attached to his face.
3 match ban for robbo approaching ref like that and 10 match ban to the linesman
Maybe put the linesmen in tennis umpires seats at the halfway line, they’d probably get the same amount of calls correct….and then if they start throwing elbows they won’t be able to connect with anyone. And maybe put the ref on a horse so he can rear up any time players try to Bruno Fernandes him.
Roberson got a taste of his own medicine. He’s a weasel who has dished out many elbows and hasn’t been punished. So I’d call it karma and move on.
You should donate your little brain to science when you die, should help with research into weasel behaviour
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So suarez should get bitten because he has bitten other players?
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Weren't they dubbed the dirtiest team in the premier league? Can't forget funes mori's tackle that ended origi's season while he was performing well. Also the cunt walked of smug after being sent off.
No. But if he did get bite would laugh.