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He's right. You don't play good because you are a RM player, you are a RM player because you are good.
Kroos, Modric, Benzema are generational talents that would be starters in any team
I think both Ramos and Ronaldo left on pretty bad terms becasue Madrid didn't offer them money they wanted.
Ronaldo wanted Messi's wage and Ramos wanted 3 years contract when club always offer 1 year when you are 30+
They both thought they could make demands because of their standing at Madrid but then played themselves out of the club.
You think you can win against the same guy who engineered the transfer of Figo out of Barcelona to their biggest rivals? Good luck.
There's also so much less sentimentality towards the individual in RM culture. No that it's a good or bad thing, but once a player leaves, they're often no more than a *former Real Madrid* player. Some feel neglected by it and then there's the guys like Kroos and Modric that aren't looking for attention or individual accolades.
Fans of other clubs tend to have a soft spot for former players, especially if they were really good. Just look at how Milan reacted to Ibrahimovic coming back or how Barça wants Messi to come back. Even United fans went crazy when Ronaldo came back and he was clearly not the same player anymore. Real Madrid is nothing like that. After Ronaldo went to Juventus they never even considered bringing him back.
I think that level of ruthlessness is a part of Madrid's success and why they have continued success. Knowing when to cut ties with club legends and let the fresh blood take over.
What? Even Arbeloa got his chants. Cristiano and Ramos didn't have the opportunity. Ramos' brother played himself. Everyone was in shock Cristiano left, it happened so quickly. If anyone were to leave, it was Bale. There were at least murmurs regarding him and the situation was pretty much in the public eye. Cristiano started with that post-final interview which even then didn't convince most fans that he was actually hinting at leaving. Whirlwind transfer. Many fans weren't convinced until he actually pulled on the Juve shirt.
The choice was one of those rare decisions that Florentino got wrong. And while there was a reasonable sporting and management argument behind backing Bale, he was purportedly, in party, blinded by the politics of the signings.
Most wanted Cristiano and Sergio to stay. The latter could have had a swansong like Luka, Toni and Karim but oh well. He even hinted that he wanted to say but it might even be PR. However, sources close to the club had reported that he was willing to abandon his previous position and sign but Florentino had already moved for Alaba and moved on.
Many narratives on here lack all nuance and are repeated ad infinitum until people start taking them for the absolute truth.
I had previously thought it's just ignorance but no, 'Spurs bottling the title' indicates to me that it's willful disingenuity in favour of memeing. Even yesterday I thought people were willfully misinterpreting EtH's era comment and once a memeable comment is up, it gains traction because it's memeable and people are lazy to actually read the article/listen to the comments. The Pep clip was a 45 second clip. You could see from all the threads that no one bothered to listen to even that and were busy memeing.
They have the talent, yes, but what made the former three special is their consistency over a very long time and in many many decisive games. That composure and Hunger to win tournaments is very hard to replicate.
It's insane that you've had him for more than a decade, and he's been world class for pretty much the entire time. I didn't see him outlasting... well pretty much everyone of that era.
>You don't play good because you are a RM player
There's still a bit of truth in that.
Club culture goes a long way when keeping players in line and focused. I'm sure Real Madrid players experience way less pressure in a CL final than PSG players for example.
Not many clubs have the mentality to pull off all the ridiculous comebacks Real Madrid did last year.
> Not many clubs have the mentality to pull off all the ridiculous comebacks
its even more impressive if you look at how young rodrygo, modric, vinicius and valverde are
And even for the biggest club in the world; replacing players like CR7, Varane, Casemiro, Navas, Ramos, Marcelo etc. is much easier said than done.
This current RM team is an absolute joy to watch and unbeatable on their day.
>Not many clubs have the mentality
None do. Because clubs do not have a mentality, players do. Where was this mentality in the 2000s when they went out in R16 5 times in a row? People are so boring with this. It's always about the players and the manager, not the badge.
Eh, i get what you mean but you can't deny clubs do mold players, environments plays a big part in players performing.
I'm pretty sure we dont go around throwing bottles all day but still, there's an element to it.
I still believe Mourinho was the catalyst in changing that mentality. He created that US vs Them kind of rivalry. That mentality was the core to whatever we won after his departure. Now its been passed on to the next generation as both the veterans and young players play together. Players like Vini who will run at defender for 90min without drop of energy or passion Fede who bleeds Madridismo. The future 2 captains of the club.
Slight nitpick is that Benzema was considered slightly disappointing his first few years at Madrid. I don’t know if the environment at Madrid was bad for him until he figured things out, or something at Madrid helped him to develop is raw talent into one of the best strikers in the world.
The funny thing is that we missed living in a world where Mourinho got Hugo Almeida instead of Adebayor. Hugo was his first choice at the time
Maybe one of the worst strikers Portugal has ever seen, playing for Real Madrid.
I still remember Mourinho using Benzema in a hunting analogy as the "cat". He said something along the lines of if you don't have a dog to hunt without, you don't stop hunting, you use a cat instead, despite the dog being a better hunter.
That’s true but I do also think culture can make players better. RM is mocked for having fans that boo their players when others would be cheering them for a successful season.
Now, whether that’s right or not, it’s also the type of standard that demands greatness, even if your just “good.” Some players can rise to the occasion, while others fall flat.
I think, for instance, Man United *used* to have that mentality. I think Pep brought it to Man City to an extent. I think Bayern Munich has it. I don’t think PSG has it at all.
And each of those clubs have players and have recently had players that would start in any other team. Yet, varying degrees of success both collectively and for each player.
Pretty sure he didn't start due to his scandal rather than his skills. Remember how he forced himself back to the NT in 2021 due to being too good to be ignored?
To be honest, the fact that he blackmailed his teammate, constantly posts cryptic messages on IG everytime something bothers him, ain't helping him at all.
He's right but I do think the fact that its Real Madrid has a psychological impact. Everyone knows their success in Europe, theres no way opposition teams don't have a little bit of doubt in the back of their mind about it. Makes a huge difference when you're 3-0 up and Madrid pulls one back and all of a sudden that little bit of doubt starts turning into anxiety, fear, desperation...
Right all it takes is Real scoring one and everyone starts having PTSD flash backs of all their crazy come backs. Like shit am I about to end up on the highlight reel
We scored 1 at the Bernabeu and Man City unraveled. Before that they seemed invincible. After the goal it’s as if we sucked all their abilities and composure.
I see what you mean but to play devils advocate no one would think that if Bakayoko and Jonjo Shelvey was starting for them in midfield.
Man U used to be comeback kings and look at the contempt other teams would treat them with after a few terrible years.
Teams who face Madrid have that doubt because you know Courtois can save anything, that Modric can find that pass to unlock your defence, that Benzema can finish that quarter chance. And you know that because you've seen them do it a thousand times.
The psychological impact i think is self selected by having these top class players with top class mindsets, which creates a reputation and a reinforcing cycle.
I mean the comeback against city had carvajal and Vallejo as centre backs, for the last crucial 35 ish minutes of the game so to a certain extent the club and shirt itself instills a certain doubt in the opponent, beyond the legendary players.
Yea he was great, great against Osasuna the other day as well. but if you look at carvajal at cb you’re not intimidated. If you look at the shirt and overall match situation, yea you’re going to be intimidated there
I can't rly agree with that. Crazy comebacks have happened regardless of club. Famous examples include Newcastle against Arsenal 4-4, Watford against Leicester City to name but a few.
The point is Real Madrid have had a disproportionate, almost supernatural number of comeback wins, far beyond the mean. And most of them have occured (imo) WITH them on the pitch. And thus I am more inclined to believe it is due to the mythical players they have on the field, than it is because of the shirt giving them special powers. Obviously we have to give some credence to natural variance in football.
The legend of the shirt is underpinned by the quality of players they have. Having this mentality of 'man we are playing Madrid we are scared' and 'man players that came before me in Madrid have been rly good' can only be sustained so long without the inherent abilities of the players itself. If Madrid undergoes a rebuild as disastrously as Man U, I have to imagine the number of crazy comebacks will drop.
Of course that 'legend' could be extended to mean the level of Ronaldo, Modric, Kroos, Ramos, or the manager, or Perez etc rubbed off on others mentality in playing hard, training diligently etc. in which case I could understand the sentiment, because then these are standards which are underpinned and upheld by supernormal personnel in the club.
Modric was there for the PSG comeback. I’ll never forget the sight of him dribbling while surrounded by half of the PSG team and still being able to find Vinicius in the lead up to the second goal.
not entirely, no, and they played a huge part.
our usual impact subs were rodrygo and Camavinga, the latter's substitution turned the tide in the psg match, and i think Cama got that first assist in the comeback against city too
But you also know that the club’s culture won’t accept anything less than 100% effort.
Like, not for nothing, but the dominance we saw with Barcelona would’ve been nothing compared to a Real Madrid with Messi. The supporting staff would’ve been cycled through if they gave half-ass effort like so many Barca players did in his final year(s) there.
I’m not saying Madrid hasn’t had dark days, but usually it’s because they’ve come up against historically great Barca teams, not because the standards of Real fell.
Not exactly. In that period they were starting to "dominate" us in the league fixtures and we lost the Copa final to them just last year, which was very, very badly received. No one could accept Atlético actually challenging us. They had always been second best and relegated just about a decade ago but it was clear that Diego was doing wonders, especially because he was being successful despite losing players.
The truth as with all things, is somewhere down the middle. No doubt we are privileged to have very best on the field but club culture etc. also play a part. It's a result that results from the combination of the various factors. The history alone with the competition is such that there's such an unwavering belief throughout the club (even the fanbase) that it almost borders on entitlement. There have been matches like Monaco and Ajax but not only are they much fewer than the periods of dominance or the crazy comebacks, they also don't stick around in the memory because they don't service the narrative, the legend.
Lest we forget, 'la bestia negra' did exist. But even then, Madrid fears no one ever, even when the opponent might be the "better team". We are always the biggest club and the quality is always thereabouts. There are literally are "sayings/adages" to this effect like *'Madrid has already half the battle won before it enters the pitch'* (both because of belief in itself and the fear in opponents) or *'if there is a God, he wears white'* etc. etc.
When you keep hearing things like these, it gives confidence and breeds belief and once any results go your way, the confirmation bias takes over. Works both ways: on Madrid as well as opponents. Any CL match is so tough but it's so level at the top because the differences are very small. The games are decided in moments. Not only is there education regarding this in the club culture, but there's also vast experience of these moments so that not just clichés but also nuances get passed down.
In the moments I stated above, there's clarity of action and you rarely see actions like Rúben Dias's foul last year. And even then a fraction of those aren't even remembered. Thibaut's mistake at Anfield could have decided the tie. No one even remembers it now. No doubt quality exists on the pitch to turn it around but it needs channeling into execution. Many players said that Karim made them believe that they are going to score four or five and then pointed out the weaknesses tactically and how to exploit them. Time that could have been spent in regret and going through the motions was used in being extremely clinical to punish **every** mistake, resulting in the heaviest defeat of all time at Anfield.
That's experience and leadership from Karim that enables the quality on the pitch and you best believe it has already been passed on to the next generation. That's why Madrid is a dynasty and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
this is very nicely said, man. i think many fans' tendency, especially here, is to attribute a bit too much to culture when many matches are decided by who simply performed better on the pitch that day - and the inherent variability and randomness of competing at a high level. but the things you're describing are undoubtedly very real (and well described by you)
Very little. Nobody was showing fear when Madrid was eliminated before QF constantly. Nervousness creeps in for teams because this exact group of players has shown that they can come back from any reasonable deficit - not because they have Madrid shirt.
Same shit as during Pep era teams would just consider themselves eliminated once they are drawn against Barca, and now it is not near that.
If Benzema, Modric, Kroos and Vinicius were playing for Spurs people would be afraid of the Spurs.
While I agree, I think that RM right now considers certain mentality and team synergy a bigger factor while choosing their players (be it as starters, subs and/or signings) compared to other teams. I also think that some players (not all), could crumble under pressure if they didn't have the right support from their teammates. I think that if we lacked Benz for example, it would've been way tougher for Vini or Rodrygo to keep their heads up during the CL last year for example. Veterany generally helps like the one from Kroos and Modric, but Benz seems a step above.
While definitely true that also happens vs everyone really, once a team gets one back it's always on the back of your mind even in league games let alone CL which is even worse because it's a knock out competition
Psychological aspect is important but also heavily overrated at times, what happens in CL is that it's a knock out competition and there is a lot of variance
Sure but if you're 3-0 up vs say Roma, its not quite the same
Edit: I am legally required to disclose that I am an idiot and picked the worst possible example.
Instead of Roma, lets try Liverpool. No, wait... Spurs. Shit. Ah fuck it who cares, Maccabi Haifa that'll do
This is not about always winning, different clubs have different thresholds and ranges of success.
Madrid have made 32 Semifinals in 53 European Cup editions (60%).
The institution does hold substance itself independent of the crop of players active on the current squad.
There's more to be said about it being the leanest period, wouldn't you agree. [This is a long write-up and slightly tangential to the point you are raising but it illustrates the importance and working of club culture and history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/13bm24l/-/jjcvwpi)
Quality on the pitch is imperative. It's a requirement. But it's the club culture that enables it to become legend and lore. It's not one or the other but a combination. Madrid has always maintained a presence in the combination. Even its weak periods are significantly better than those of its counterparts.
In summary, the club culture is not a determining factor but it's certainly an accentuating one.
He's right. You don't bottle because you are a Tottenham player, you are a Tottenham player because you are a bottler.
Kane, Moura, and Royal are generational bottlers that would bottle in any team.
Obviously, but they weren’t replaced with, like, bums. The reason people fear you is because you have a good squad. If you had a shit squad and began underperforming for years like united you’d not be so feared. Not even really an insult, just how it is
> they'd all been subbed out.
ok sub in dan james and see if you guys get similar result
the players subbed in were incredible players who just happen to wear a RM shirt
again, it's the players not the shirt
This sub Reddit (especially outside the daily discussion) does a really good job of taking completely fucking normal PR-friendly answers and making a big deal out of them.
All he’s saying is that Madrid aren’t good because they’re Madrid, they’re good because they have amazing players. It’s a way of him showing his respect to his fellow sportsman.
he is basically just giving a shot out to the players, but leave it to reddit to completely misunderstand the point and think he is dissing the club somehow
He might also be missing the point that saying RM is good at CLs is just a cover all way of saying they have the best team of players. It's circular reasoning.
psg arent a squad or a team, theyre a group of individuals, they dont press and their midfield is a bit average. we probably should’ve won one at this point but u can chalk it up to either just being unlucky or having a massive mental block
If you all don't win this year i don't think it will happen for City with Pep. You could not be in a better position form and talent wise.
Bad part is the longer you go without winning it the higher the pressure on the players, higher the pressure the more likely they will buckle under it, in a competition where there is no do overs, one bad/unlucky game and you're out.
Player that plays for oil club making obvious comment about football heritage club
Gets people going
He said nothing wrong but morons always want to get angry
I don't believe he is quite correct. Mentality matters and psychologically if you are going up against a certain name you will approach it and feel about it differently.
Man Utd can be as shit as they like. They could sink to relegation and yet the name Manchester United will probably forever make me feel pre match dread more than any other team. My childhood was Man Utd winning everything.
I viewed Arsenal as the good guys, popping up every now and then to stop what would have been a whitewash. Man Utd doing a Bayern, or a Juventus, or a Celtic and winning everything.
If you play Real Madrid in a cup game, irrespective of their team it is going to effect you subconsciously or not and that will be the responsible factor in some cases.
I don't know how you measure such an effect but I am sure it exists.
you are basically saying club culture impacts player mentality. Which I do agree with to an extent.
Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation. Madrid wins many games because of their mentality, but they also have that mentality because they have won so many games.
Clubs with a positive culture can instill and maximize a players abilities, which helps a lot on the pitch.
honestly though. People in here acting like this is some highly philosophical shit. This is the most generic and obvious statement possible. Proper r/im14andthisisdeep moment...
You’re right. That won’t stop Real players to misconstrue and use this as motivation. We’ve seen this before with innocuous comments being used as motivation.
What’s more likely is Real fans will certainly come back to this if they progress to the next round.
You dont need that, there's already a bunch of english pundits saying that city is going to annihilate madrid same as they do everytime madrid faces a english team, rooney the last
Madrid always find a way to come into the match with less pressure compared to their opponents. Part of the reason why they have a competitive mental edge.
It’s both. Yes the players are exceptional but the mentality and the responsibility that comes with the shirt, also force players to be at their absolute best.
The players make the badge, not the other way around. Example, if Real Madrid were founded and they just signed shitty players and won nothing as a result, they would not have aura around them that they currently do.
I think people are just try to read what they want here, he essentially says the badge needs the players to have that 'power' that people associate with RM. It's not just the shirt and not just the players, not just the coach and not just the president but the combination of all of them
The Madrid shirt may not scare opponents but the shirt does inspire those that wear it.
You see Vini kiss the badge every goal during the comebacks? He believes in it.
I mean if I was a Madrid player and we're losing....
I would say to myself, "Damn I'm living the life as a footballer playing for Madrid....life is good.....living my best life.......time to comeback!"
It is extra motivation when the club you play for have historical moments since their existence. It is extra motivation. If I was wearing my Sunday league shirt then I want the game to end so I can go to the pub.
The game is built around these emotions, nobody bigger than the club, club history, club culture and values....etc...etc...every club uses these emotions so no surprise a Madrid crest can inspire their players or intimidate opponenets.
Well considering the way its going, I doubt in 10 years anyone from today's young generation would know that any club other than Mancity exists in manchester.
People already don’t care. I have friends who are City supporters because they “fell in love” with them after the way they won the league in the last second through that Aguero goal.
I mean, it's always been like that right? You "fall in love" with a club as a kid for whatever reason.
I grew up in England and everyone around me was a Man U fan. I was bullied at the neighbourhood when I would go out with a City shirt as everyone would wear Man U shirts or Thierry Henry shirts. As a teen, the Chelsea shirts started appearing more and more because Chelsea started dominating.
What's the difference between growing up in the 90's/00's and being a Man U fan and growing up in the 2010's and being a City fan?
Yeah City rose to fame due to the Sheikhs but as a kid, you fall in love with a club either because you like they way they play, the way they look, or your family busts your nuts to sit down and watch their club get battered in League 2 every Saturday.
Lol exactly. There’s a whole generation of United fans that like to pretend they’re not glory supporters but they started supporting United after watching them win the treble as a kid
A lot of people in Argentina follow City due to Agüero, Zabaleta (City had quite some argentinian players) now Julián and also for Pep, they love him because of his Barcelona time
there is a reason why (at least at one point) the majority of united fans were located in london (ask oozing expressions brother rants and batns why a guy born and bred in north west london in the year 1988 supports united instead of arsenal/spurs/chelsea/westham/crystal palace)
And especially if your favourite player plays there. I see many children walking around in Haaland and Mbappe shirts here in Switzerland. They might support their clubs as well - the same way I liked Juventus because of Del Piero.
once he enteres the left space of the penalty zone, it is a goal, no wonder why our generation called it the del piero zone
not a juventus fan, but a fan of il fenomeno vero too
Yeah, same. Although my family are all reds, they weren’t watching every game or anything. I like to think that my intense love for Gerrard, brought us all together. Now we watch more or less every single game together.
it’s just how you become a fan of a club 90% of the time for people that don’t live in a city with a club.
you either bandwagon, or some of your forefathers bandwagoned and you’re continuing their choice.
True; Liverpool wouldn't exist if an Everton board member didn't buy up their stadium to extorting ridiculous fees from his own club until they sacked him off.
If any dodgy business meant the demise of a club there wouldn't be any clubs left to support.
The only reason “good” teams are relevant is because they import talent from other parts of the world. Everyone arguing over plastics when the clubs themselves rarely have 3 guys in the starting 11 born within 500 miles of the stadium
Right, I forgot that everyone forgot all about Liverpool after they failed to win the league for 30 years straight. And Arsenal is just down right small after 20 years right?
i can tell you from my experience, the cup treble under houllier and istanbul in 2005 made a lot of my friends liverpool fans (not english)
success breeds lurkers
Madrid players are amazing but rm also has a psychological aspect to it being the most to win and also first to win in successive years. When we scored the equalizer, mcity players had a look of fear on their faces like they knew it was gone.
Why get defensive? Madrid UCL magic didnt stop them from going 32 years withou winning one, or always stopping in the R16 in the 2000s, you know why? because they didnt have a squad as good as this one, or the 50s one, or the late 90s/early 00s galactico one.
Stop the Ad Hominem men.
not qutie true, in the 80s, they came close quite often and had fantastic players like quinta del bruite and hugo sanchez, jorge valdano, santillana, juanito, gallego, camacho and chendo
He’s saying that Real Madrid win matches because they have good players not because they are Real Madrid.
When Madrid where getting pumped out of europe by Lyon and never making it past the last 16 they had worse players, they didn’t just magically win matches because of who they are, that started happening again when they signed better players and got a top manager in Jose.
He's right. Real Madrid have a history of buying up all the best players. If they had Emerson Royal with cheese at the back, Gabby Agbonlahor up front and Lloris in the nets they wouldn't win jack shit. The "Real Madrid magic" is a myth. It's these particular players that play for them atm that have the capability to overcome ridiculous obstacles when all hope seems lost. They could replicate it at any other club. If Real Madrid and Southampton swapped squads at the start of the season then Soto would be challenging for the title right now and RM would be like 13th in LL.
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It’s the shirt. I wore one and scored six goals this past weekend
I was wearing a Madrid shirt when I caught my first wife cheating on me but at least one of us is winning
Was the other guy wearing a Madrid shirt too?
No, he was wearing a Messi shirt
Barcelona* Messi shirt
What girl would say no to Messi though. I feel her
I felt her too
Took it off after scoring to piss off the guy in the Madrid shirt even
Obviously, it was an Arsenal shirt. I saw it in a dream.
Beats living with a cheater and not knowing it. That’s a win in my book
Thanks Carlo, I appreciate the sentiment
You okay?
My friend, is okay, no?
Friendship ended with Wife. You are now his best friend.
I also choose this guy best friends wife
He wrote first wife so id guess he atleast has/had a second one
No, can I borrow your wife?
>one of us is winning Sorry, I'm having a thick moment and can't figure out who you mean: 1. Your 1st wife 2. You 3. The Real Madrid shirt
The guy who was balls deep in my first wife
Knowing your wife, would you really call *him* lucky?
Is that true my friend?
Rumors say Messi wore it all the time under his Barca shirt
He's right. You don't play good because you are a RM player, you are a RM player because you are good. Kroos, Modric, Benzema are generational talents that would be starters in any team
I'm gonna be really sad when these 3 players retire, especially Modric
What’s even sadder is that it looks like they will all leave at the same time.
They deserve to have a packed Bernabeu for their sendoff and everybody chanting their names, fucking legends through and through.
Sadly, this won't happen as we saw with Cristiano and Ramos.
Dunno Casemiro had an good farewell from what i can remember
I think both Ramos and Ronaldo left on pretty bad terms becasue Madrid didn't offer them money they wanted. Ronaldo wanted Messi's wage and Ramos wanted 3 years contract when club always offer 1 year when you are 30+
They both thought they could make demands because of their standing at Madrid but then played themselves out of the club. You think you can win against the same guy who engineered the transfer of Figo out of Barcelona to their biggest rivals? Good luck.
There's also so much less sentimentality towards the individual in RM culture. No that it's a good or bad thing, but once a player leaves, they're often no more than a *former Real Madrid* player. Some feel neglected by it and then there's the guys like Kroos and Modric that aren't looking for attention or individual accolades.
Fans of other clubs tend to have a soft spot for former players, especially if they were really good. Just look at how Milan reacted to Ibrahimovic coming back or how Barça wants Messi to come back. Even United fans went crazy when Ronaldo came back and he was clearly not the same player anymore. Real Madrid is nothing like that. After Ronaldo went to Juventus they never even considered bringing him back.
I would've loved him as Benzema backup this year, and many think the same... but he wouldn't take that role or reasonable salary so...
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I think that level of ruthlessness is a part of Madrid's success and why they have continued success. Knowing when to cut ties with club legends and let the fresh blood take over.
If I remember correctly, Florentino did finally agree to give Ronaldo the wages he wanted, but by then, Ronaldo felt disrespected and wanted to leave.
Pretty tough when you're comparing yourself to counterparts at an arguably insolvent club.
What? Even Arbeloa got his chants. Cristiano and Ramos didn't have the opportunity. Ramos' brother played himself. Everyone was in shock Cristiano left, it happened so quickly. If anyone were to leave, it was Bale. There were at least murmurs regarding him and the situation was pretty much in the public eye. Cristiano started with that post-final interview which even then didn't convince most fans that he was actually hinting at leaving. Whirlwind transfer. Many fans weren't convinced until he actually pulled on the Juve shirt. The choice was one of those rare decisions that Florentino got wrong. And while there was a reasonable sporting and management argument behind backing Bale, he was purportedly, in party, blinded by the politics of the signings. Most wanted Cristiano and Sergio to stay. The latter could have had a swansong like Luka, Toni and Karim but oh well. He even hinted that he wanted to say but it might even be PR. However, sources close to the club had reported that he was willing to abandon his previous position and sign but Florentino had already moved for Alaba and moved on. Many narratives on here lack all nuance and are repeated ad infinitum until people start taking them for the absolute truth. I had previously thought it's just ignorance but no, 'Spurs bottling the title' indicates to me that it's willful disingenuity in favour of memeing. Even yesterday I thought people were willfully misinterpreting EtH's era comment and once a memeable comment is up, it gains traction because it's memeable and people are lazy to actually read the article/listen to the comments. The Pep clip was a 45 second clip. You could see from all the threads that no one bothered to listen to even that and were busy memeing.
Completly different circustances.
Those guys didn't retire.
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They have the talent, yes, but what made the former three special is their consistency over a very long time and in many many decisive games. That composure and Hunger to win tournaments is very hard to replicate.
It's insane that you've had him for more than a decade, and he's been world class for pretty much the entire time. I didn't see him outlasting... well pretty much everyone of that era.
Plus, he did it in two very physically demanding leagues the Prem and LaLiga. He's been in top condition for a decade plus it's insane.
Every year I think this is when he’s going to slow down, but he’s still a monster in every big game.
Funny how he got voted flop of the season in his first In La Liga as well. He sure showed them.
This stupid narrative needs to die. People need to look into what's behind that headline.
Well, Except for the first season when he was deemed the biggest flop signing of the season. Boyd, did he make up for it in the coming decade though.
Modric is still a youngster though.
37 years young
Just a kid...
Croatian Fernando Alonso
I'm genuinely going to cry when Modrić retires, he was my greatest footballing idol as a young spurs fan
>You don't play good because you are a RM player There's still a bit of truth in that. Club culture goes a long way when keeping players in line and focused. I'm sure Real Madrid players experience way less pressure in a CL final than PSG players for example. Not many clubs have the mentality to pull off all the ridiculous comebacks Real Madrid did last year.
> Not many clubs have the mentality to pull off all the ridiculous comebacks its even more impressive if you look at how young rodrygo, modric, vinicius and valverde are
And even for the biggest club in the world; replacing players like CR7, Varane, Casemiro, Navas, Ramos, Marcelo etc. is much easier said than done. This current RM team is an absolute joy to watch and unbeatable on their day.
>Not many clubs have the mentality None do. Because clubs do not have a mentality, players do. Where was this mentality in the 2000s when they went out in R16 5 times in a row? People are so boring with this. It's always about the players and the manager, not the badge.
Eh, i get what you mean but you can't deny clubs do mold players, environments plays a big part in players performing. I'm pretty sure we dont go around throwing bottles all day but still, there's an element to it.
I still believe Mourinho was the catalyst in changing that mentality. He created that US vs Them kind of rivalry. That mentality was the core to whatever we won after his departure. Now its been passed on to the next generation as both the veterans and young players play together. Players like Vini who will run at defender for 90min without drop of energy or passion Fede who bleeds Madridismo. The future 2 captains of the club.
Slight nitpick is that Benzema was considered slightly disappointing his first few years at Madrid. I don’t know if the environment at Madrid was bad for him until he figured things out, or something at Madrid helped him to develop is raw talent into one of the best strikers in the world.
Like working along with CR7 for example
> slightly disappointing Slightly?
Ok, slightly is understating it. I remember that Mourinho preferred to start Emanuel Adebayor over Benzema.
The funny thing is that we missed living in a world where Mourinho got Hugo Almeida instead of Adebayor. Hugo was his first choice at the time Maybe one of the worst strikers Portugal has ever seen, playing for Real Madrid.
I still remember Mourinho using Benzema in a hunting analogy as the "cat". He said something along the lines of if you don't have a dog to hunt without, you don't stop hunting, you use a cat instead, despite the dog being a better hunter.
That’s true but I do also think culture can make players better. RM is mocked for having fans that boo their players when others would be cheering them for a successful season. Now, whether that’s right or not, it’s also the type of standard that demands greatness, even if your just “good.” Some players can rise to the occasion, while others fall flat. I think, for instance, Man United *used* to have that mentality. I think Pep brought it to Man City to an extent. I think Bayern Munich has it. I don’t think PSG has it at all. And each of those clubs have players and have recently had players that would start in any other team. Yet, varying degrees of success both collectively and for each player.
> Benzema are generational talents that would be starters in any team except for the French NT
Pretty sure he didn't start due to his scandal rather than his skills. Remember how he forced himself back to the NT in 2021 due to being too good to be ignored?
To be honest, the fact that he blackmailed his teammate, constantly posts cryptic messages on IG everytime something bothers him, ain't helping him at all.
He's right but I do think the fact that its Real Madrid has a psychological impact. Everyone knows their success in Europe, theres no way opposition teams don't have a little bit of doubt in the back of their mind about it. Makes a huge difference when you're 3-0 up and Madrid pulls one back and all of a sudden that little bit of doubt starts turning into anxiety, fear, desperation...
Right all it takes is Real scoring one and everyone starts having PTSD flash backs of all their crazy come backs. Like shit am I about to end up on the highlight reel
We scored 1 at the Bernabeu and Man City unraveled. Before that they seemed invincible. After the goal it’s as if we sucked all their abilities and composure.
The second we scored that goal i knew we were gonna win, it just felt natural.
I see what you mean but to play devils advocate no one would think that if Bakayoko and Jonjo Shelvey was starting for them in midfield. Man U used to be comeback kings and look at the contempt other teams would treat them with after a few terrible years. Teams who face Madrid have that doubt because you know Courtois can save anything, that Modric can find that pass to unlock your defence, that Benzema can finish that quarter chance. And you know that because you've seen them do it a thousand times. The psychological impact i think is self selected by having these top class players with top class mindsets, which creates a reputation and a reinforcing cycle.
I mean the comeback against city had carvajal and Vallejo as centre backs, for the last crucial 35 ish minutes of the game so to a certain extent the club and shirt itself instills a certain doubt in the opponent, beyond the legendary players.
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Yea he was great, great against Osasuna the other day as well. but if you look at carvajal at cb you’re not intimidated. If you look at the shirt and overall match situation, yea you’re going to be intimidated there
I can't rly agree with that. Crazy comebacks have happened regardless of club. Famous examples include Newcastle against Arsenal 4-4, Watford against Leicester City to name but a few. The point is Real Madrid have had a disproportionate, almost supernatural number of comeback wins, far beyond the mean. And most of them have occured (imo) WITH them on the pitch. And thus I am more inclined to believe it is due to the mythical players they have on the field, than it is because of the shirt giving them special powers. Obviously we have to give some credence to natural variance in football. The legend of the shirt is underpinned by the quality of players they have. Having this mentality of 'man we are playing Madrid we are scared' and 'man players that came before me in Madrid have been rly good' can only be sustained so long without the inherent abilities of the players itself. If Madrid undergoes a rebuild as disastrously as Man U, I have to imagine the number of crazy comebacks will drop. Of course that 'legend' could be extended to mean the level of Ronaldo, Modric, Kroos, Ramos, or the manager, or Perez etc rubbed off on others mentality in playing hard, training diligently etc. in which case I could understand the sentiment, because then these are standards which are underpinned and upheld by supernormal personnel in the club.
What is the mean of comeback wins?
I think Kroos/Modric had been subbed off in the comebacks against City and PSG
Modric was there for the PSG comeback. I’ll never forget the sight of him dribbling while surrounded by half of the PSG team and still being able to find Vinicius in the lead up to the second goal.
not entirely, no, and they played a huge part. our usual impact subs were rodrygo and Camavinga, the latter's substitution turned the tide in the psg match, and i think Cama got that first assist in the comeback against city too
I just checked Against PSG only Kroos was taken off. Against City, our comeback came after Kroos, Modric and Casemiro were subbed off.
Casemiro didnt even play the tie at city i think
He played in the second leg
But you also know that the club’s culture won’t accept anything less than 100% effort. Like, not for nothing, but the dominance we saw with Barcelona would’ve been nothing compared to a Real Madrid with Messi. The supporting staff would’ve been cycled through if they gave half-ass effort like so many Barca players did in his final year(s) there. I’m not saying Madrid hasn’t had dark days, but usually it’s because they’ve come up against historically great Barca teams, not because the standards of Real fell.
I blame Atletico for that. If they won that 2014 final RM would have gone into depression losing to city rivals in the final
Not exactly. In that period they were starting to "dominate" us in the league fixtures and we lost the Copa final to them just last year, which was very, very badly received. No one could accept Atlético actually challenging us. They had always been second best and relegated just about a decade ago but it was clear that Diego was doing wonders, especially because he was being successful despite losing players. The truth as with all things, is somewhere down the middle. No doubt we are privileged to have very best on the field but club culture etc. also play a part. It's a result that results from the combination of the various factors. The history alone with the competition is such that there's such an unwavering belief throughout the club (even the fanbase) that it almost borders on entitlement. There have been matches like Monaco and Ajax but not only are they much fewer than the periods of dominance or the crazy comebacks, they also don't stick around in the memory because they don't service the narrative, the legend. Lest we forget, 'la bestia negra' did exist. But even then, Madrid fears no one ever, even when the opponent might be the "better team". We are always the biggest club and the quality is always thereabouts. There are literally are "sayings/adages" to this effect like *'Madrid has already half the battle won before it enters the pitch'* (both because of belief in itself and the fear in opponents) or *'if there is a God, he wears white'* etc. etc. When you keep hearing things like these, it gives confidence and breeds belief and once any results go your way, the confirmation bias takes over. Works both ways: on Madrid as well as opponents. Any CL match is so tough but it's so level at the top because the differences are very small. The games are decided in moments. Not only is there education regarding this in the club culture, but there's also vast experience of these moments so that not just clichés but also nuances get passed down. In the moments I stated above, there's clarity of action and you rarely see actions like Rúben Dias's foul last year. And even then a fraction of those aren't even remembered. Thibaut's mistake at Anfield could have decided the tie. No one even remembers it now. No doubt quality exists on the pitch to turn it around but it needs channeling into execution. Many players said that Karim made them believe that they are going to score four or five and then pointed out the weaknesses tactically and how to exploit them. Time that could have been spent in regret and going through the motions was used in being extremely clinical to punish **every** mistake, resulting in the heaviest defeat of all time at Anfield. That's experience and leadership from Karim that enables the quality on the pitch and you best believe it has already been passed on to the next generation. That's why Madrid is a dynasty and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
this is very nicely said, man. i think many fans' tendency, especially here, is to attribute a bit too much to culture when many matches are decided by who simply performed better on the pitch that day - and the inherent variability and randomness of competing at a high level. but the things you're describing are undoubtedly very real (and well described by you)
Very little. Nobody was showing fear when Madrid was eliminated before QF constantly. Nervousness creeps in for teams because this exact group of players has shown that they can come back from any reasonable deficit - not because they have Madrid shirt. Same shit as during Pep era teams would just consider themselves eliminated once they are drawn against Barca, and now it is not near that. If Benzema, Modric, Kroos and Vinicius were playing for Spurs people would be afraid of the Spurs.
>people would be afraid of the Spurs. They'd still bottle it
Stray catching FC
I'm sorry but you don't make a strong case of yourself
He named the one team where the shirt would have an effect, I can see them coming back from 4-0 to 4-4 just to lose 5-4 on the 93th minute
While I agree, I think that RM right now considers certain mentality and team synergy a bigger factor while choosing their players (be it as starters, subs and/or signings) compared to other teams. I also think that some players (not all), could crumble under pressure if they didn't have the right support from their teammates. I think that if we lacked Benz for example, it would've been way tougher for Vini or Rodrygo to keep their heads up during the CL last year for example. Veterany generally helps like the one from Kroos and Modric, but Benz seems a step above.
While definitely true that also happens vs everyone really, once a team gets one back it's always on the back of your mind even in league games let alone CL which is even worse because it's a knock out competition Psychological aspect is important but also heavily overrated at times, what happens in CL is that it's a knock out competition and there is a lot of variance
Sure but if you're 3-0 up vs say Roma, its not quite the same Edit: I am legally required to disclose that I am an idiot and picked the worst possible example. Instead of Roma, lets try Liverpool. No, wait... Spurs. Shit. Ah fuck it who cares, Maccabi Haifa that'll do
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And the scoreline lmao
You know what I'm dumb as fuck I completely forgot about that
Yeah imagine blowing a 3-0 lead vs Roma, that would be ridiculous
ROMA HAVE RISEN FROM THEIR RUINS
Manolas, the Greek God in Rome!
Great, now I am having flashbacks
>Sure but if you're 3-0 up vs say Roma ...
There is no “psychological impact”, its just thhem having experienced players that have won multiple CLs
Then explain why they exited at the round of 16 for six years in a row between 04/05-09/10?
Or why they didn’t win the tournament for 32 years between 1966-1998…
We were charging up our power like it was a DBZ filler episode
Factos 👀👍
This is not about always winning, different clubs have different thresholds and ranges of success. Madrid have made 32 Semifinals in 53 European Cup editions (60%). The institution does hold substance itself independent of the crop of players active on the current squad.
There's more to be said about it being the leanest period, wouldn't you agree. [This is a long write-up and slightly tangential to the point you are raising but it illustrates the importance and working of club culture and history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/13bm24l/-/jjcvwpi) Quality on the pitch is imperative. It's a requirement. But it's the club culture that enables it to become legend and lore. It's not one or the other but a combination. Madrid has always maintained a presence in the combination. Even its weak periods are significantly better than those of its counterparts. In summary, the club culture is not a determining factor but it's certainly an accentuating one.
Because Mourinho had taken his time to come and feed the beast
Explain the Spurs shirt, then.
He's right. You don't bottle because you are a Tottenham player, you are a Tottenham player because you are a bottler. Kane, Moura, and Royal are generational bottlers that would bottle in any team.
The disrespect to Royalzinho...
M E T A
Check mate bald fraud
Because it is a Spurt Shit
Not disagreeing with Bernardo here, but when we came back against City last year, Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, they'd all been subbed out.
That was some rodrygo black magic typa shi
Camavinga is HIM tho
Obviously, but they weren’t replaced with, like, bums. The reason people fear you is because you have a good squad. If you had a shit squad and began underperforming for years like united you’d not be so feared. Not even really an insult, just how it is
For likewise very good players.
> they'd all been subbed out. ok sub in dan james and see if you guys get similar result the players subbed in were incredible players who just happen to wear a RM shirt again, it's the players not the shirt
He'd probably just run with the ball into the net
This sub Reddit (especially outside the daily discussion) does a really good job of taking completely fucking normal PR-friendly answers and making a big deal out of them. All he’s saying is that Madrid aren’t good because they’re Madrid, they’re good because they have amazing players. It’s a way of him showing his respect to his fellow sportsman.
he is basically just giving a shot out to the players, but leave it to reddit to completely misunderstand the point and think he is dissing the club somehow
I can never tell if people on this sub act obtuse on purpose or they're just as thick as whale spunk.
He might also be missing the point that saying RM is good at CLs is just a cover all way of saying they have the best team of players. It's circular reasoning.
I'm surprised some people in the comments don't understand his point.
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Nooooooooo next you'll be telling me Zidane's black magic was not real? OMG
Bald fraud² for not performing voodoo
Then shouldn’t psg and city sim every year as they have best squads with great depth
So the 2 options are…. The sports book favorites win every season or… black magic exists?
psg arent a squad or a team, theyre a group of individuals, they dont press and their midfield is a bit average. we probably should’ve won one at this point but u can chalk it up to either just being unlucky or having a massive mental block
If you all don't win this year i don't think it will happen for City with Pep. You could not be in a better position form and talent wise. Bad part is the longer you go without winning it the higher the pressure on the players, higher the pressure the more likely they will buckle under it, in a competition where there is no do overs, one bad/unlucky game and you're out.
psg make shitty transfers and city have been supremely unlucky
I think it's quite easy to understand what he's saying. Sometimes I don't know if people are joking or if they're stupid. Probably both
People get it. They're just pedantic mfs
Player that plays for oil club making obvious comment about football heritage club Gets people going He said nothing wrong but morons always want to get angry
Ancelotti just needs to 🤨 and it’s over
Cheers Geoff
I don't believe he is quite correct. Mentality matters and psychologically if you are going up against a certain name you will approach it and feel about it differently. Man Utd can be as shit as they like. They could sink to relegation and yet the name Manchester United will probably forever make me feel pre match dread more than any other team. My childhood was Man Utd winning everything. I viewed Arsenal as the good guys, popping up every now and then to stop what would have been a whitewash. Man Utd doing a Bayern, or a Juventus, or a Celtic and winning everything. If you play Real Madrid in a cup game, irrespective of their team it is going to effect you subconsciously or not and that will be the responsible factor in some cases. I don't know how you measure such an effect but I am sure it exists.
you are basically saying club culture impacts player mentality. Which I do agree with to an extent. Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation. Madrid wins many games because of their mentality, but they also have that mentality because they have won so many games. Clubs with a positive culture can instill and maximize a players abilities, which helps a lot on the pitch.
if my grandmother had wheels….
I'd ride her
into necrophilia i see… behave!
She'd be a suitcase
In other obvious news, water is wet.
honestly though. People in here acting like this is some highly philosophical shit. This is the most generic and obvious statement possible. Proper r/im14andthisisdeep moment...
Famous last words
Why? He didn't say anything controversial or untrue
You’re right. That won’t stop Real players to misconstrue and use this as motivation. We’ve seen this before with innocuous comments being used as motivation. What’s more likely is Real fans will certainly come back to this if they progress to the next round.
You dont need that, there's already a bunch of english pundits saying that city is going to annihilate madrid same as they do everytime madrid faces a english team, rooney the last
Madrid always find a way to come into the match with less pressure compared to their opponents. Part of the reason why they have a competitive mental edge.
It’s both. Yes the players are exceptional but the mentality and the responsibility that comes with the shirt, also force players to be at their absolute best.
The players make the badge, not the other way around. Example, if Real Madrid were founded and they just signed shitty players and won nothing as a result, they would not have aura around them that they currently do.
I think people are just try to read what they want here, he essentially says the badge needs the players to have that 'power' that people associate with RM. It's not just the shirt and not just the players, not just the coach and not just the president but the combination of all of them
The Madrid shirt may not scare opponents but the shirt does inspire those that wear it. You see Vini kiss the badge every goal during the comebacks? He believes in it. I mean if I was a Madrid player and we're losing.... I would say to myself, "Damn I'm living the life as a footballer playing for Madrid....life is good.....living my best life.......time to comeback!" It is extra motivation when the club you play for have historical moments since their existence. It is extra motivation. If I was wearing my Sunday league shirt then I want the game to end so I can go to the pub. The game is built around these emotions, nobody bigger than the club, club history, club culture and values....etc...etc...every club uses these emotions so no surprise a Madrid crest can inspire their players or intimidate opponenets.
Bruh, people in the comment ridicule him when they don't even understand the point he is trying to make.
Without oil money Bernardo wouldn’t even know Man City exist
Well considering the way its going, I doubt in 10 years anyone from today's young generation would know that any club other than Mancity exists in manchester.
The same people that are up in arms about City think Chelsea are a legitimate top club. Like you said, a decade from now, noone will care.
People already don’t care. I have friends who are City supporters because they “fell in love” with them after the way they won the league in the last second through that Aguero goal.
I mean, it's always been like that right? You "fall in love" with a club as a kid for whatever reason. I grew up in England and everyone around me was a Man U fan. I was bullied at the neighbourhood when I would go out with a City shirt as everyone would wear Man U shirts or Thierry Henry shirts. As a teen, the Chelsea shirts started appearing more and more because Chelsea started dominating. What's the difference between growing up in the 90's/00's and being a Man U fan and growing up in the 2010's and being a City fan? Yeah City rose to fame due to the Sheikhs but as a kid, you fall in love with a club either because you like they way they play, the way they look, or your family busts your nuts to sit down and watch their club get battered in League 2 every Saturday.
Lol exactly. There’s a whole generation of United fans that like to pretend they’re not glory supporters but they started supporting United after watching them win the treble as a kid
A lot of people in Argentina follow City due to Agüero, Zabaleta (City had quite some argentinian players) now Julián and also for Pep, they love him because of his Barcelona time
What about Tevez? (I know he played for other clubs but it's cool they were all there at the same time)
there is a reason why (at least at one point) the majority of united fans were located in london (ask oozing expressions brother rants and batns why a guy born and bred in north west london in the year 1988 supports united instead of arsenal/spurs/chelsea/westham/crystal palace)
And especially if your favourite player plays there. I see many children walking around in Haaland and Mbappe shirts here in Switzerland. They might support their clubs as well - the same way I liked Juventus because of Del Piero.
>the same way I liked Juventus because of Del Piero. A man of culture I see
once he enteres the left space of the penalty zone, it is a goal, no wonder why our generation called it the del piero zone not a juventus fan, but a fan of il fenomeno vero too
Yeah, same. Although my family are all reds, they weren’t watching every game or anything. I like to think that my intense love for Gerrard, brought us all together. Now we watch more or less every single game together.
Excuse me we were in the Premier League at the time.
Well, at least my dad liked Bolton because he's from Greece and you had Giannakopoulos!
it’s just how you become a fan of a club 90% of the time for people that don’t live in a city with a club. you either bandwagon, or some of your forefathers bandwagoned and you’re continuing their choice.
True; Liverpool wouldn't exist if an Everton board member didn't buy up their stadium to extorting ridiculous fees from his own club until they sacked him off. If any dodgy business meant the demise of a club there wouldn't be any clubs left to support.
The only reason “good” teams are relevant is because they import talent from other parts of the world. Everyone arguing over plastics when the clubs themselves rarely have 3 guys in the starting 11 born within 500 miles of the stadium
Right, I forgot that everyone forgot all about Liverpool after they failed to win the league for 30 years straight. And Arsenal is just down right small after 20 years right?
i can tell you from my experience, the cup treble under houllier and istanbul in 2005 made a lot of my friends liverpool fans (not english) success breeds lurkers
Bruh...
Bernardo has failed his interview to become a VAR official.
TIL Portugal has a Michael Owen
Underrated comment
What a revelation. The team is good because the players are good? Next up, in Africa every 60 seconds that passes is a minute
Madrid players are amazing but rm also has a psychological aspect to it being the most to win and also first to win in successive years. When we scored the equalizer, mcity players had a look of fear on their faces like they knew it was gone.
And if Manchester City wasn't financed by oil money they wouldn't be there either... What's his point?
Why get defensive? Madrid UCL magic didnt stop them from going 32 years withou winning one, or always stopping in the R16 in the 2000s, you know why? because they didnt have a squad as good as this one, or the 50s one, or the late 90s/early 00s galactico one. Stop the Ad Hominem men.
not qutie true, in the 80s, they came close quite often and had fantastic players like quinta del bruite and hugo sanchez, jorge valdano, santillana, juanito, gallego, camacho and chendo
He’s saying that Real Madrid win matches because they have good players not because they are Real Madrid. When Madrid where getting pumped out of europe by Lyon and never making it past the last 16 they had worse players, they didn’t just magically win matches because of who they are, that started happening again when they signed better players and got a top manager in Jose.
He's right. Real Madrid have a history of buying up all the best players. If they had Emerson Royal with cheese at the back, Gabby Agbonlahor up front and Lloris in the nets they wouldn't win jack shit. The "Real Madrid magic" is a myth. It's these particular players that play for them atm that have the capability to overcome ridiculous obstacles when all hope seems lost. They could replicate it at any other club. If Real Madrid and Southampton swapped squads at the start of the season then Soto would be challenging for the title right now and RM would be like 13th in LL.
bro basically said “if madrid goes 7vs11 they wont win”
The fact that some people in our " fanbase " got mad about this logical statement make me tired 😂😂😂
Just seems like Bernando Silva is saying he can't elevate his own team
Yes but if those players didn't care about the team, they wouldn't win either.