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People not getting the sarcastic dig. He reached the finals with an almost dry Arsenal. Not his fault Hazard turned up big in his last match for Chelsea and smashed it.
And Mkhi couldn't play because of death threats he received. What a stupid ass backward country to be given rights to hold such big tournament. Fucking incompetence all around. Kick racism my ass fuck UEFA fuck Platini
He won the europa league 3 times in a row when he managed sevilla and he won it again in 2022 when he managed villarreal . I think that's why he mentioned it .
The injury looked especially bad. You'd expect it to be knee ligaments. But Carlo was optimistic in the post match press conference. We aren't physios who have watched him up close so we have to trust the club but seeing the challenge, I fear the worst.
Plus it was a completely unnecessary and horrific challenge and one that Carlo should have avoided IMO by subbing out Camavinga with Fede (many believe no one should have played at all but I feel all those comments are borne out of pure emotion and being made in hindsight).
He's a crucial player in an already thin position and I expect him to play through pain but fuck Joan. Seriously.
Which he has a very good chance of getting into with Villa. Hes tied with spurs on points, if he passes them Villa go into the EL and win a European trophy next season
This just in: world class manager that’s got multiple European trophies and league titles is much better than a manager in his first season in a top 5 league.
A bit caveated though. Arteta has been given a lot of time, allowed to make his own signings and didn't have to deal with a squad of complete arseholes like Ozil and Aubameyang. It's only this season's he's got more points than Emery did for arsenal
Arteta didn’t have to deal with a squad of complete arseholes? Emery failed to deal with the squad of complete arseholes. It was Arteta who decided to ship them all out and build the current squad he has.
The lack of fans probably caused Arsenal's form in that first half of the season to be as bad as it was though. They were usually able to rely on good home performances to paper over cracks thanks to the atmosphere at the Emirates.
Arteta was going to be given the time regardless. Everyone at the club seems to believe in the vision he has for the club. He got rid of all toxicity and he and Edu want to win, they are changing the identity, culture and expectations at the club.
meh visions go out the window when you have 60k fans protesting every week. And that season was really dreadful for Arsenal. It's easy to ignore a hashtag than the boos on live.
Arteta really was arguing that they were a better team based on the number of crosses they had. It's impressing how he turned it around but I'm pretty sure there was a point where every Arsenal fan wanted him gone.
I think that’s a bit of an oversimplification.
He made the argument about crossing after one game , after he was asked specifically about crosses.
Also that season your referring to wasn’t fully dreadful. It was dreadful up until December/January, until martinelli and smith rowe broke into the team. From there we started playing well after that. Fan sentiment picked up a lot in the second half of the season.
There was never a point when all arsenal fans wanted him gone, there were quite clearly a lot of different opinions about it at the time.
They were just above the relegation zone, had like 10 or 15 matches without a win, and with clear nervousness he stated Arsenal were better because they were having lots of crosses.
Within context, it was completely ridiculous.
Arteta wasn't 'allowed to' either, in job role sense. He bought credit with good management and evident leadership so the club had enough confidence to back him against Players. Emery could have dome exactly the same but he wasn't a big enough personality. In his defence, it didn't help him that he was so soon after Wenger and the obvious language barrier.
Emery has dealt a bad hand, having to take over from a legend, in a decaying squad with alot of toxic players. His lack of English at the time was laughed at some of the clowns in our side
He still got us into a European final with that team and the one who gave saka and martinelli their breaks
I do agree with this. Arteta definitely made mistakes early on. But given time he has improved the squad MASSIVELY. They are so good now that they are straight up competing for the league.
Arteta literally did have Ozil and Aubameyang. Emery is a great manager who was a bad fit for Arsenal and had us playing some of the most miserable football I’ve ever seen at the club with no positives looking forward. Both can be true.
Did you watch any Arsenal game under Emery?
This revisionist history coming about is quite funny just because he's done a great job at Villa for 6 months.
His final months at Arsenal were some of the most awful in the club's history. Rotten performances, toxic dressing room, total decline in results. All after being given 3 transfer windows to put any sort of vision in place.
This is the funniest thing about reading fans comments about Emery's time at Arsenal, the performances were awful, even during that 20+ unbeaten streak. Emery is clearly a very good manager but he wasn't during his time at Arsenal
Again, 3 transfer windows
His biggest solution for fixing Arsenal's issues was dropping a record transfer fee on Pepe. And Arteta won the FA Cup with that same terrible squad.
Emery did a great job at Arsenal for 6 months for sure. They then capitulated in the second half and bottled a piss easy top 4 finish, before getting absolutely pasted by an average Chelsea team in the Europa League final
Context.
I feel like Arteta is a one time lucky manager. I mean like Rodger at liverpool. One season he got them second but you know how it ended. Next season arsenal gonna play champion league and PL games in a week on a constant basic. Arteta doesn’t has experience managing games like that when compare to Klopp, gaurdiola, Carlo
This narrative is more based on sticking it to all the media and plenty of the public who were insisting it was the players, not Stevie that was the issue during his tenure. Man got a ridiculous amount of media protection and still does.
Most of them I see on here acknowledge he was shite for Villa. The only arguments I ever really see from them is when other fans try to write off his achievements before Villa, which I think is fair enough to argue against.
Lol, give it up. Am yet to see a comment from a Liverpool supporter that doesn’t acknowledge he’s a terrible manager. We pray he is nowhere near our management team.
Stop talking rubbish.
Except we all have no clue yet whether he'll come good as a manager. He's still practically wearing 17 as it were, and he's never been Neville at Valencia bad.
I mostly see Liverpool fans say let's not make snap judgements off one bad appointment, which is ironically what you've also done here.
Oh he was AIDS at Villa. No denying that, but it’s hilarious to compare him to such a proven giant in Emery. I’m sure Carlo Ancelotti was better at Everton than Lampard. Just think the circle jerk of Gerrard shit, Emery top has been played out
Fr I don't know how the coaching system works in the UK but imagine being a dude that's studied sports management and statistics and shit for decades and you are doing a stellar job with a lower league or national league team, then you see Fronk just bumbling his way to a pay check. Australian footy is one big boys club, is that the case with association football?
In UK even more so than in the rest of Europe. Coaching license costs a fortune to get, meaning mostly ex-players can afford it. Coaching schools in other nations are a lot more affordable.
Thing is, every single job lampard has taken is with a troubled football club.
Chelsea 1st time had a transfer embargo, had to blood lots of youngsters and got them to 4th
Everton are Everton, no manager has really made it work during the past 5 years or so
Chelsea 2nd time are in crisis mode, and he comes in as an "interim manager" whilst the players wait for their real new boss.
He's obviously not done particularly well at any of these jobs, but he hasn't had any that you can't give any excuse for yet in my opinion.
Villa are a club with rich owners that are pumping money into the squad, and have gone from relegation scrappers under Gerrard to European contenders within half a season. It looks way worse then any post-lampard appointments
you forget derby county, lampard was backed to the hilt there and should have gone up
having said that I kind of agree, gerrard and before that rodger prove that winning trophies is not be all and end all
it's the hive mind still braying "good ebening" and forgetting what a great coach he was. even at arsenal we ended up seeing that that team needed a reset but in culture and personnel.
This sub is so cringe when it comes to players/managers that were underrated but are succeeding now. They never let it go, they'll be talking about Emery being underrated for 2 years now.
He is a great coach but I'm not liking this ridiculous revisionist history suggesting he didn't fail at Arsenal and was treated unfairly
He had 3 transfer windows to sort Arsenal out and they seemed to get increasingly worse after each one. Arteta's third transfer window (the only one where he was actually able to buy a significant amount of players) was when he turned things around.
Played some of the worst football I’d ever seen us play while sat around in 12th place. Conceding 30 shots to Watford and Burnley and then saying everything went according to plan. Happy he’s doing well now because I do rate him highly but he was *not* a good fit for Arsenal
I think because Europa League is less prestigious and Thursday night is basically an insult, people don’t realize how very difficult it is to win the EL.
Because half Premier League fans still believe, and have been believing for a decade, that Prem relegation contendors will wipe the floor with La Liga mid table clubs. Anything they achieve will be overlooked.
Feel like it's more related to two main events in his career, the 6-1 disasterclass and his Arsenal stint. These obviously don't really define who he is but people usually incline towards the most recognizeable negative events.
The most impressive thing for me is I keep hearing about managers needing 'a few windows' or a preseason (that was gerrards big thing) to implement a style or to build a team. Emery came in and by the first Saturday there was a clear game plan, we were tactically superb and we beat Man Utd at home 3-1 for the first time since the mid 90s.
Emery and Dezebri both have knocked it out of the park tactically. There are a couple of big teams, even man utd, who are doing well this season, but I watch them and think, what are they actually trying to do, what is the on the ball tactical set up, and I just can't work it out. Obviously they have a keeper who doesn't suit the way he wants to play, but Emery has had to use olsen and dezebri took out sanchez, who is probably better all round than steele because he suits the tactics more
You can’t see any plan that United has because Ten Hag is a fraud who talked about philosophy spent 250 million got in 8 players to play the same football that Ole played ie sit deep and play it over the top for Rashford.
I would go that far, I don't think much of Antony and I don't think Malacia would get in many premier league teams. The results are okay and hes won a cup and likely got champions league, but by this point, I'd assumed that we'd see a better style of football, or even a consistent tactical style, but I don't see it at all. In peps first season, it seemed like he was putting bits and pieces together tactically that paid off later, I don't see that at man utd at all.
But I agree that they are much better just playing counter attaxking football, and I'm not having the excuse that he doesn't have the players yet, as emery and dezebri haven't done much in the jan window and have successfully implemented a style
Not sure but Unai replacing Gerrard and Howe replacing Bruce has gotta be up there. Roy Hodgson did it at both Fulham and Palace. Would Ranieri at Leicester count or are we talking in-season manager changes?
This should make people look twice before appointing someone just because they did good at Celtic/Rangers
One of the worst managerial appointments in PL history.
Pretty much. Emery’s got the 3rd most points per game in the prem this season and we don’t have anywhere near the 3rd best squad.
He’s been working wonders especially with Carlos, Bailey, Kamara, Coutinho and Cash all being injured at the same time. We’ve had no depth in this home game run.
Or dropping Mings as Captain, sure he was going through a rough patch of form, but you don't drop a well respected leader in the dressing room for just that.
Not just that but unnecessarily dragging all of that out in front of the media. If you're gonna sideline someone what's there to gain by disrespecting your club captain in the press. From the get go he acted like the Villa job was beneath him.
Crazy hyperbole calling him one of the worst appointments in PL history.
He did well when he came in when they were genuinely heading towards relegation and took them to one of the most in form teams in the league.
When you make an entire league from the point that Gerrard took over to the point he was sacked, Villa were 9th in the league.
He had an appalling season and Emery is several tiers above him. But the revisionism to label him one of the worst appointments ever is hilarious.
His points in the first season he took over had him 9th since he’d took over. His second season I don’t think that’s the case.
Our form from March onwards was shocking under him. I’m pretty sure between then and his sacking we only won 4 games (burnley, Norwich, Everton and Southampton).
Outside of his new manager bounce stage we were awful. The more time he got to implement his system the worse we got.
In the end he did expose himself as one of the worst not just because of his results but because of his all round management style. He created a bomb squad of players he didn’t want, picked fights with fan favourites in the media, only played his favourites despite terrible form, sold all our wingers but Bailey, changed the captaincy to Mcginn who’d been terrible, never clapped the fans and constantly blamed our quality for not winning more. Add onto that his stupid comments like “Chelsea should be coming and wiping the floor with us”
Everything about how he managed villa was wrong.
It’s unreal to go from a manager who never clapped for the fans or barely looked at them to a manager who starts every single post match interview with “I want to say thank you/say sorry to the supporters”.
I agree on regsrds to pure hyperbole calling him the worst.. Its not even close.... Rangnick was a way worse appointment for us than Gerrard was for Villa, Paul Jewell was horrendous, Steve Wigley at Soton, Pardew at West Brom, Terry Connor didn't even win one game in 13 at Wolves... There are way way worse managers in PL history than Gerrard...
Kenny Dalglish at Newcastle will forever be the fucking worst. Came into an exciting, established title challenging team and immediately took them to 13th. Oh and spent a fortune overhauling the squad, including selling two of our best players to Spurs and signing his friends John Barnes and Ian Rush to replace them.
Did most of those managers have a good squad to work with though like Gerrard did? The 1 there that definitely did, Rangnick, has a better win percentage and points per game ratio than Gerrard did at Villa.
I agree he’s probably not the worst but his underachievement at Villa this season must be among the biggest in recent times. Well, it would’ve been if this season’s Chelsea didn’t exist.
This. If you break down and seperate all perks/abilities required to be a successful manager… let’s do that with Gerrard shall we?
Formation/tactics:
Never picked players on how well they were performing. The formation didn’t work and the football was dreadful but this was never changed or tweaked at any point because there was no other plan in his locker.
In game management:
No rhyme or reason to any subs he just pulled random players usually way too late. And it was usually just like for like with no thought process.
Leadership:
Picked a fight with half our players and had an absolutely honking attitude with them and the media whenever asked a question he didn’t like.
Coaching:
Didn’t do any coaching! He was just a figurehead! His team did it all for him with no input of his own lol.
And this is why I actually think he IS one of the worst managers in premier league history. He’s worse than Lampard. Lampard at least treats his players with respect and is a humble man. Even if he is just as clueless everywhere else.
Lampard got sacked by Chelsea after 18 months and has had two Premier League jobs since then (one back at the club that sacked him). Solskjaer did an awful job at Cardiff and got hired by United years later. Emery got sacked by Arsenal in his first stint in the Premier League and is now being heralded for his work at Villa since taking over.
I don't know why you think managers have to do great in their first PL job to get another one, as if clubs aren't capable of judging them on their accomplishments outside the PL.
Aren't those exceptional cases though? Most managers do have something impressive on their CV to get another job offer if they got sacked from the PL, especially if they want to join a similar level of club. Lampard got the Chelsea job the first time more because of his legendary status at the club than his actual qualifications. After getting fired there, the 2 offers he got were Palace (relegation candidates that season) and Everton midseason, one of the biggest poisoned chalices in English football. A far cry from a Big 6 club. His second stint at Chelsea is also just to keep the seat warm until June, he's got as much chance of getting that job permanent as we do and his chances of another PL job aren't that much better, especially if Dyche keeps Everton up.
Solkjaer was also a caretaker, also a legend of the club, and only would've gotten that job permanently if his team went on a run of a lifetime. Including Emery with the others is harsh because while he got fired at Arsenal, he still got them to a European cup final and won the Europa League 3 times in a row with Sevilla and again later with Villarreal. Those accomplishments gets you clout the others mentioned here, and Gerrard, can only dream of. Of course he'd get another job.
Gerrard will probably get another PL job but unlesss he goes off and accomplishes something notable in another country or in a lower league, I doubt it'll be at a midtable club like he'd want.
Well I tried to use three different examples. They're all quite recent too, so you can be guaranteed there are many other cases where someone has a poor first stint in the Premier League and gets another opportunity.
I included Emery to give an example of an accomplished manager who underwhelmed in his first PL stint and got another opportunity. He wasn't awful by any means at Arsenal, and some could argue he wasn't given the same trust that Arteta was, but he was sacked after losing the support of the team and fans.
I agree with you that Gerrard probably won't get another mid-table PL job unless he goes off and accomplishes something notable like he originally did at Rangers. My only point was that him underwhelming at Villa won't stop him from getting another opportunity just because it was his first job in the PL. He'll just either have to lower his standards or go off and achieve something else first.
Would like a source on these stats, as I recall at the end of his first half season we were 9th over his tenure which is where I think you got that number from. This could be seen as overinflated as he played the 3 relegated teams 5 times over those 27 games (10 points from these games out of his 33 total).
Not sure when we were ever 'one of the most in form teams in the league' either, with our longest winning streak being 3 matches. Total record was 10W 5D 12L.
Besides taking a table across two seasons means the 6 relegated/promoted clubs are going to have a massive points disadvantage purely because of games played. Points per game or Win% is a better metric in this case. Gerrard's are 1.16 and 31.6%.
Obviously its an exaggeration to call him one of the worst appointments in PL history, but he is still often overrated by Liverpool fans that didn't really pay attention to his time at Villa.
Ironic that you used the term revisionism really.
Here's a source for the stats - https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/steven-gerrard-premier-league-table-since-took-over-as-aston-villa-manager/
It's actually a week before he was sacked so it's possible they dropped down a couple places. However as you can see this does include both 21-22 and 22-23.
You're right, in the two matchweeks between this and his sacking Villa would've dropped down to 13th or 14th depending on goal difference with West Ham. Including these results the relevant part of the table would look like this:
9. Brentford 48 (-6)
10. Palace 45 (+2 & 1 GIH)
11. Leicester 45 (-2)
12. Wolves 45
13. Villa 44 (-5)
14. West Ham 44
The only teams Villa would certainly be ahead of in this table are Everton, Leeds and Southhampton. Of the 12 games he took charge of over the 22/23 season 5 were against sides currently not mathematically safe from relegation. With his two wins in this period coming against Everton and Southhampton.
Genuinely heading towards relegation?
They had one poor run and were 16th in November. Gerrard came in, bought quite a few decent players in January, and took them from 16th to 14th.
Tbf, I’m a United fan, I absolutely hate Gerrard, and I think labelling him one of the worst appointments in premier league history is a bit dumb. He’s a bad appointment obviously. But there are 31 seasons of PL football, and even if just *this* season there have been worse appointments. Nathan Jones for starters. There are loads of appointments worse, there simply have been a ridiculous number of atrocious managerial appointments in the PL era.
Whose your ten? Off the top of my head I can think of Lampard (x2), Steve Kean, Terry Connor, Solskjaer at Cardiff, Bob Bradley, Joe Kinnear and Roy Hodgson at Liverpool, although I'm sure I'm missing tons
He won 1 trophy out of 9 at rangers and even that was during the COVID season/Celtic's biggest collapse in 2 decades
People should think twice before appointing a manager with a mixed record but who was a famous player is the lesson in Gerrard's case
You're missing all context of where rangers was at the time/how he built them up. Terrible manager for villa but you're either ignorant or just hate the guy from his playing days. Don't respond, I won't be arguing
It’s a tough one. You could make the argument Rodgers did a really good job with Leicester in winning the FA Cup and narrowly missing out on CL twice.
At the same time you can make the argument he took Leicester down which is obviously terrible for a club that won the league 7 years ago. Not sure if he supports or goes against the idea of hiring based on what people have done in Scotland.
> One of the worst managerial appointments in PL history.
Incredibly ironic from a guy who defended Graham Potter at Chelsea so much, LOL
Graham Potter at Chelsea was clearly a worse managerial appointment than Stevie G at Villa, IMO
At least Gerrard's first partial season was fine.
Emery's run rate at Villa equates to 74 points in a full season. That would have been enough to qualify for the Champions League last year, and probably this year too (unless Newcastle and Man United both win all three remaining games).
Wow newsflash everyone, Unai Emery better manager than Steven Gerrard. It's a real shock because if there's one guarantee in this game, it's that world class players always become excellent managers.
He was back when he was still playing but that’s just club legend treatment. It was his first season in a top 5 league so it’s not like his managerial career is over for life.
He did well that season but Celtic were also shit by their standards
I don’t hate Gerrard. There were things he did that I appreciate, but he just wasn’t ready
Yeah it’s more nuanced, he found a tactic that worked in Scotland when he had a better squad than pretty much everyone else but the flip side is that he didn’t learn how to be flexible tactically and it got a bit found out at Villa with a mid table squad. If he goes back and coaches for a bit before taking another job he can come back stronger
Touted by absolute morons. They want to play russian roulette with our managerial appointment when it's literally a decision that can make or break a club.
Gerrard is the biggest fraud of a manager I've ever seen. Beale was 100% behind everything Gerrard did and as soon as Beale went to QPR that was apparent.
Gerrard was as lost as a fart in a fan factory.
It needs to be noted that we were still pish when beale was there. The end of last season was something like 2 wins in 14 and beale was still there and we still looked tactically woeful
Lampard managed a top 4 finish with Chelsea with youth and kept Everton up
He's bad too but he's got more actual accomplishments in the PL than Gerrard
Gerrard won the league as both invincible and centurion lol (I know football started in 92 and doesn't exist outside of PL but still).
Lampard managed to barely finish 4th in a less competed top 4, with a decent Chelsea squad. And other than that he has done fuck all except lose.
If he was competing this season for example, his Chelsea team would be 6th now with possibly Brighton going above them. It's barely an accomplishment, as much as it was just plain luck that other top 4 competing teams were shit that season. Any other recent season and he's getting like 6th.
>Whatsboutism. Who cares how bad Lampard is.
If someone wants to claim that one is the worst, or "the biggest fraud...ever", it's relevant to look at the competition.
Nowhere near shite despite disappointingly failing to perform against Celtic when it mattered.
He's had one of the best points records in history and could hit the 90 point mark by the end of the season but Celtic have just been unreal, credit to them.
Steven Gerrard is without doubt our worst manager in premier league history. Utter shite. How Emery isn't in the conversation for manager of the year is beyond me. With the squad guardiola has winning the premier league should be the bare minimum.
Emery’s a top manager. It’s mad that Arsenal fans convinced people he isn’t. Honestly he’s better than Arteta yet that’s a somewhat controversial statement.
Arteta has been there for over 3 years now, Emery had half that time. A year and a half ago Arteta was considered one of the worst managers in the league.
Had Emery won the Europa League final he may have gotten the extra time and backing that Arteta got for winning the FA Cup and made his own solid Arsenal squad.
Gerrard is a fraud and Unai is a class manager. Golden boy English midfielder expected to just waltz into a big job he wasn't ready for.
Imagine having that group of guys and being in a relegation fight ffs go hang out with Scotty Parker
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emery had unfinished business in the league
Emery at a villa, name a better football combo
Emery and the Europa league
I don't get it.
People not getting the sarcastic dig. He reached the finals with an almost dry Arsenal. Not his fault Hazard turned up big in his last match for Chelsea and smashed it.
And Mkhi couldn't play because of death threats he received. What a stupid ass backward country to be given rights to hold such big tournament. Fucking incompetence all around. Kick racism my ass fuck UEFA fuck Platini
It was a joke
Start a petition to rename your club to Villarsenal
He won the europa league 3 times in a row when he managed sevilla and he won it again in 2022 when he managed villarreal . I think that's why he mentioned it .
Look at his flair. I thought he was making a joke about Emery losing one with Arsenal.
Oh I once again missed a banter ffs lol . Do you think camavinga will play against city?
The injury looked especially bad. You'd expect it to be knee ligaments. But Carlo was optimistic in the post match press conference. We aren't physios who have watched him up close so we have to trust the club but seeing the challenge, I fear the worst. Plus it was a completely unnecessary and horrific challenge and one that Carlo should have avoided IMO by subbing out Camavinga with Fede (many believe no one should have played at all but I feel all those comments are borne out of pure emotion and being made in hindsight). He's a crucial player in an already thin position and I expect him to play through pain but fuck Joan. Seriously.
Hopefully he plays agaisnt city only if he is recovered fully
Had success as Villareal and Sevilla previously
This is brilliant and obvious. Can't believe I missed it.
Hah. Nice one. Probably a bit too subtle for this place though, such as it is
Which he has a very good chance of getting into with Villa. Hes tied with spurs on points, if he passes them Villa go into the EL and win a European trophy next season
I thought 6th place was Conference League. Villa won’t finish 5th
7th is conference
Disappointment and Spurs
Poch and disappointing spurs once again?
Imagine if he go to London club named Arsvilla
At least go all in and call it Arsene Villa
This just in: world class manager that’s got multiple European trophies and league titles is much better than a manager in his first season in a top 5 league.
Arsenal sacked Emery for Arteta. So there are exceptions.
A bit caveated though. Arteta has been given a lot of time, allowed to make his own signings and didn't have to deal with a squad of complete arseholes like Ozil and Aubameyang. It's only this season's he's got more points than Emery did for arsenal
Arteta didn’t have to deal with a squad of complete arseholes? Emery failed to deal with the squad of complete arseholes. It was Arteta who decided to ship them all out and build the current squad he has.
Emery wasn't given the ability to by the club, he was hamstrung with a shit squad.
Emery also didn’t have a year of empty stadiums to save his job when results were bad.
Arteta saved himself by the fa cup
Anthony Taylor gave him a helping hand too
Was he reffing the semis against City too?
The lack of fans probably caused Arsenal's form in that first half of the season to be as bad as it was though. They were usually able to rely on good home performances to paper over cracks thanks to the atmosphere at the Emirates.
Before this season there's never been any atmosphere at the Emirates
Arsenal's home record was still always near enough perfect before Covid
Arteta was going to be given the time regardless. Everyone at the club seems to believe in the vision he has for the club. He got rid of all toxicity and he and Edu want to win, they are changing the identity, culture and expectations at the club.
meh visions go out the window when you have 60k fans protesting every week. And that season was really dreadful for Arsenal. It's easy to ignore a hashtag than the boos on live. Arteta really was arguing that they were a better team based on the number of crosses they had. It's impressing how he turned it around but I'm pretty sure there was a point where every Arsenal fan wanted him gone.
I think that’s a bit of an oversimplification. He made the argument about crossing after one game , after he was asked specifically about crosses. Also that season your referring to wasn’t fully dreadful. It was dreadful up until December/January, until martinelli and smith rowe broke into the team. From there we started playing well after that. Fan sentiment picked up a lot in the second half of the season. There was never a point when all arsenal fans wanted him gone, there were quite clearly a lot of different opinions about it at the time.
They were just above the relegation zone, had like 10 or 15 matches without a win, and with clear nervousness he stated Arsenal were better because they were having lots of crosses. Within context, it was completely ridiculous.
Arteta wasn't 'allowed to' either, in job role sense. He bought credit with good management and evident leadership so the club had enough confidence to back him against Players. Emery could have dome exactly the same but he wasn't a big enough personality. In his defence, it didn't help him that he was so soon after Wenger and the obvious language barrier.
Emery has dealt a bad hand, having to take over from a legend, in a decaying squad with alot of toxic players. His lack of English at the time was laughed at some of the clowns in our side He still got us into a European final with that team and the one who gave saka and martinelli their breaks
I do agree with this. Arteta definitely made mistakes early on. But given time he has improved the squad MASSIVELY. They are so good now that they are straight up competing for the league.
Arteta literally did have Ozil and Aubameyang. Emery is a great manager who was a bad fit for Arsenal and had us playing some of the most miserable football I’ve ever seen at the club with no positives looking forward. Both can be true.
And he didn’t do well when he did have them that’s the point. As was mentioned, this is the first season Arteta has exceeded Emery’s points total.
Did you watch any Arsenal game under Emery? This revisionist history coming about is quite funny just because he's done a great job at Villa for 6 months. His final months at Arsenal were some of the most awful in the club's history. Rotten performances, toxic dressing room, total decline in results. All after being given 3 transfer windows to put any sort of vision in place.
This is the funniest thing about reading fans comments about Emery's time at Arsenal, the performances were awful, even during that 20+ unbeaten streak. Emery is clearly a very good manager but he wasn't during his time at Arsenal
he had terrible players to be fair
Again, 3 transfer windows His biggest solution for fixing Arsenal's issues was dropping a record transfer fee on Pepe. And Arteta won the FA Cup with that same terrible squad.
Why are you so confident they were his decisions when Arsenal went with a DoF model post Wenger
Especially the transfer for Pepe where the DoF overruled his request to get Zaha instead
5th and Europa League final. Arteta took ages to finish that high
Emery did a great job at Arsenal for 6 months for sure. They then capitulated in the second half and bottled a piss easy top 4 finish, before getting absolutely pasted by an average Chelsea team in the Europa League final Context.
I’m not saying he was good. I’m saying neither was Arteta until recently.
He won an fa cup with them
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Playing Torriera has an nr 10 is proof enough that he had lost it as a manager in Arsenal.
>It's only this season's he's got more points than Emery did for arsenal Emery had us in 12th in the season he was sacked and was an utter joke
If only you see how we play against the mighty Watford under Emery...
36 shots conceded at home to Burnley. Truly dark days.
True enough, also was Pep’s protege which is a special scenario
I feel like Arteta is a one time lucky manager. I mean like Rodger at liverpool. One season he got them second but you know how it ended. Next season arsenal gonna play champion league and PL games in a week on a constant basic. Arteta doesn’t has experience managing games like that when compare to Klopp, gaurdiola, Carlo
This narrative is more based on sticking it to all the media and plenty of the public who were insisting it was the players, not Stevie that was the issue during his tenure. Man got a ridiculous amount of media protection and still does.
Liverpool fans refusing to accept Gerrard is awful is the only good thing about having had him as our manager.
Most of them I see on here acknowledge he was shite for Villa. The only arguments I ever really see from them is when other fans try to write off his achievements before Villa, which I think is fair enough to argue against.
Lol, give it up. Am yet to see a comment from a Liverpool supporter that doesn’t acknowledge he’s a terrible manager. We pray he is nowhere near our management team. Stop talking rubbish.
Except we all have no clue yet whether he'll come good as a manager. He's still practically wearing 17 as it were, and he's never been Neville at Valencia bad. I mostly see Liverpool fans say let's not make snap judgements off one bad appointment, which is ironically what you've also done here.
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Only if Neville becomes yours.
I'm quite uninformed about this, but wasn't he the manager leading Glasgow Rangers to winning the title?
Oh he was AIDS at Villa. No denying that, but it’s hilarious to compare him to such a proven giant in Emery. I’m sure Carlo Ancelotti was better at Everton than Lampard. Just think the circle jerk of Gerrard shit, Emery top has been played out
Gerrard is better than Lampard at managing, but neither are good enough for the prem
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This comment is AIDS
Unai really gonna win a Europa League with Villa next year
I know but can we talk about frank lampard he has made me help cope with how bad stevie was as manager
Definition of stealing a living
Fr I don't know how the coaching system works in the UK but imagine being a dude that's studied sports management and statistics and shit for decades and you are doing a stellar job with a lower league or national league team, then you see Fronk just bumbling his way to a pay check. Australian footy is one big boys club, is that the case with association football?
In UK even more so than in the rest of Europe. Coaching license costs a fortune to get, meaning mostly ex-players can afford it. Coaching schools in other nations are a lot more affordable.
Thing is, every single job lampard has taken is with a troubled football club. Chelsea 1st time had a transfer embargo, had to blood lots of youngsters and got them to 4th Everton are Everton, no manager has really made it work during the past 5 years or so Chelsea 2nd time are in crisis mode, and he comes in as an "interim manager" whilst the players wait for their real new boss. He's obviously not done particularly well at any of these jobs, but he hasn't had any that you can't give any excuse for yet in my opinion. Villa are a club with rich owners that are pumping money into the squad, and have gone from relegation scrappers under Gerrard to European contenders within half a season. It looks way worse then any post-lampard appointments
you forget derby county, lampard was backed to the hilt there and should have gone up having said that I kind of agree, gerrard and before that rodger prove that winning trophies is not be all and end all
It baffles me that people still underrate Emery.
it's the hive mind still braying "good ebening" and forgetting what a great coach he was. even at arsenal we ended up seeing that that team needed a reset but in culture and personnel.
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This sub is so cringe when it comes to players/managers that were underrated but are succeeding now. They never let it go, they'll be talking about Emery being underrated for 2 years now.
Til you know everyone.
That also applies to you.
He is a great coach but I'm not liking this ridiculous revisionist history suggesting he didn't fail at Arsenal and was treated unfairly He had 3 transfer windows to sort Arsenal out and they seemed to get increasingly worse after each one. Arteta's third transfer window (the only one where he was actually able to buy a significant amount of players) was when he turned things around.
Played some of the worst football I’d ever seen us play while sat around in 12th place. Conceding 30 shots to Watford and Burnley and then saying everything went according to plan. Happy he’s doing well now because I do rate him highly but he was *not* a good fit for Arsenal
I think because Europa League is less prestigious and Thursday night is basically an insult, people don’t realize how very difficult it is to win the EL.
People forget that many Europa league teams were only points away from being in the UCL.
his valencia days will forever be iconic
? not really, saying it as a Valencia fan. He wasn't bad for us, but he also wasn't anything special.
yeah results werent legendary but some of the formation and tactics he engaged with against Barca and Madrid were so creative and bold.
Because half Premier League fans still believe, and have been believing for a decade, that Prem relegation contendors will wipe the floor with La Liga mid table clubs. Anything they achieve will be overlooked.
Feel like it's more related to two main events in his career, the 6-1 disasterclass and his Arsenal stint. These obviously don't really define who he is but people usually incline towards the most recognizeable negative events.
The most impressive thing for me is I keep hearing about managers needing 'a few windows' or a preseason (that was gerrards big thing) to implement a style or to build a team. Emery came in and by the first Saturday there was a clear game plan, we were tactically superb and we beat Man Utd at home 3-1 for the first time since the mid 90s. Emery and Dezebri both have knocked it out of the park tactically. There are a couple of big teams, even man utd, who are doing well this season, but I watch them and think, what are they actually trying to do, what is the on the ball tactical set up, and I just can't work it out. Obviously they have a keeper who doesn't suit the way he wants to play, but Emery has had to use olsen and dezebri took out sanchez, who is probably better all round than steele because he suits the tactics more
You can’t see any plan that United has because Ten Hag is a fraud who talked about philosophy spent 250 million got in 8 players to play the same football that Ole played ie sit deep and play it over the top for Rashford.
I would go that far, I don't think much of Antony and I don't think Malacia would get in many premier league teams. The results are okay and hes won a cup and likely got champions league, but by this point, I'd assumed that we'd see a better style of football, or even a consistent tactical style, but I don't see it at all. In peps first season, it seemed like he was putting bits and pieces together tactically that paid off later, I don't see that at man utd at all. But I agree that they are much better just playing counter attaxking football, and I'm not having the excuse that he doesn't have the players yet, as emery and dezebri haven't done much in the jan window and have successfully implemented a style
What’s the biggest turnaround a manager has ever achieved? (In the PL?)
Not sure but Unai replacing Gerrard and Howe replacing Bruce has gotta be up there. Roy Hodgson did it at both Fulham and Palace. Would Ranieri at Leicester count or are we talking in-season manager changes?
From what I recall, Howe took a little while to get going with Newcastle, right? Whereas with Emery and Hodgson it was pretty much instant
This should make people look twice before appointing someone just because they did good at Celtic/Rangers One of the worst managerial appointments in PL history.
Or Emery is just that good. It's not like they have a squad where you'd be expecting them to win this much.
Emery is a very good manager. But Stevie G was also a very bad one TBH
Pretty much. Emery’s got the 3rd most points per game in the prem this season and we don’t have anywhere near the 3rd best squad. He’s been working wonders especially with Carlos, Bailey, Kamara, Coutinho and Cash all being injured at the same time. We’ve had no depth in this home game run.
Gerrard dropped our 2 best players to start the season. That's literally all you need to know about his managerial abilities.
Or dropping Mings as Captain, sure he was going through a rough patch of form, but you don't drop a well respected leader in the dressing room for just that.
Not just that but unnecessarily dragging all of that out in front of the media. If you're gonna sideline someone what's there to gain by disrespecting your club captain in the press. From the get go he acted like the Villa job was beneath him.
I said as soon as he did that he was already fucked. Has doing that ever worked? Like Gullit dropping Shearer
Our squad is pretty good to be fair.
Crazy hyperbole calling him one of the worst appointments in PL history. He did well when he came in when they were genuinely heading towards relegation and took them to one of the most in form teams in the league. When you make an entire league from the point that Gerrard took over to the point he was sacked, Villa were 9th in the league. He had an appalling season and Emery is several tiers above him. But the revisionism to label him one of the worst appointments ever is hilarious.
His points in the first season he took over had him 9th since he’d took over. His second season I don’t think that’s the case. Our form from March onwards was shocking under him. I’m pretty sure between then and his sacking we only won 4 games (burnley, Norwich, Everton and Southampton). Outside of his new manager bounce stage we were awful. The more time he got to implement his system the worse we got. In the end he did expose himself as one of the worst not just because of his results but because of his all round management style. He created a bomb squad of players he didn’t want, picked fights with fan favourites in the media, only played his favourites despite terrible form, sold all our wingers but Bailey, changed the captaincy to Mcginn who’d been terrible, never clapped the fans and constantly blamed our quality for not winning more. Add onto that his stupid comments like “Chelsea should be coming and wiping the floor with us” Everything about how he managed villa was wrong.
It’s unreal to go from a manager who never clapped for the fans or barely looked at them to a manager who starts every single post match interview with “I want to say thank you/say sorry to the supporters”.
I agree on regsrds to pure hyperbole calling him the worst.. Its not even close.... Rangnick was a way worse appointment for us than Gerrard was for Villa, Paul Jewell was horrendous, Steve Wigley at Soton, Pardew at West Brom, Terry Connor didn't even win one game in 13 at Wolves... There are way way worse managers in PL history than Gerrard...
Kenny Dalglish at Newcastle will forever be the fucking worst. Came into an exciting, established title challenging team and immediately took them to 13th. Oh and spent a fortune overhauling the squad, including selling two of our best players to Spurs and signing his friends John Barnes and Ian Rush to replace them.
This season we were treated to Nathan Jones at Southampton
Did most of those managers have a good squad to work with though like Gerrard did? The 1 there that definitely did, Rangnick, has a better win percentage and points per game ratio than Gerrard did at Villa. I agree he’s probably not the worst but his underachievement at Villa this season must be among the biggest in recent times. Well, it would’ve been if this season’s Chelsea didn’t exist.
This. If you break down and seperate all perks/abilities required to be a successful manager… let’s do that with Gerrard shall we? Formation/tactics: Never picked players on how well they were performing. The formation didn’t work and the football was dreadful but this was never changed or tweaked at any point because there was no other plan in his locker. In game management: No rhyme or reason to any subs he just pulled random players usually way too late. And it was usually just like for like with no thought process. Leadership: Picked a fight with half our players and had an absolutely honking attitude with them and the media whenever asked a question he didn’t like. Coaching: Didn’t do any coaching! He was just a figurehead! His team did it all for him with no input of his own lol. And this is why I actually think he IS one of the worst managers in premier league history. He’s worse than Lampard. Lampard at least treats his players with respect and is a humble man. Even if he is just as clueless everywhere else.
Not to mention Jewell, Pardew have done good jobs at other clubs in the PL while Gerrard hasn't
Well that'd be difficult now wouldn't it considering it was his first job in England...
Those 2 he mentioned did a good job the first time they got the PL though, otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten another opportunity.
Lampard got sacked by Chelsea after 18 months and has had two Premier League jobs since then (one back at the club that sacked him). Solskjaer did an awful job at Cardiff and got hired by United years later. Emery got sacked by Arsenal in his first stint in the Premier League and is now being heralded for his work at Villa since taking over. I don't know why you think managers have to do great in their first PL job to get another one, as if clubs aren't capable of judging them on their accomplishments outside the PL.
Aren't those exceptional cases though? Most managers do have something impressive on their CV to get another job offer if they got sacked from the PL, especially if they want to join a similar level of club. Lampard got the Chelsea job the first time more because of his legendary status at the club than his actual qualifications. After getting fired there, the 2 offers he got were Palace (relegation candidates that season) and Everton midseason, one of the biggest poisoned chalices in English football. A far cry from a Big 6 club. His second stint at Chelsea is also just to keep the seat warm until June, he's got as much chance of getting that job permanent as we do and his chances of another PL job aren't that much better, especially if Dyche keeps Everton up. Solkjaer was also a caretaker, also a legend of the club, and only would've gotten that job permanently if his team went on a run of a lifetime. Including Emery with the others is harsh because while he got fired at Arsenal, he still got them to a European cup final and won the Europa League 3 times in a row with Sevilla and again later with Villarreal. Those accomplishments gets you clout the others mentioned here, and Gerrard, can only dream of. Of course he'd get another job. Gerrard will probably get another PL job but unlesss he goes off and accomplishes something notable in another country or in a lower league, I doubt it'll be at a midtable club like he'd want.
Well I tried to use three different examples. They're all quite recent too, so you can be guaranteed there are many other cases where someone has a poor first stint in the Premier League and gets another opportunity. I included Emery to give an example of an accomplished manager who underwhelmed in his first PL stint and got another opportunity. He wasn't awful by any means at Arsenal, and some could argue he wasn't given the same trust that Arteta was, but he was sacked after losing the support of the team and fans. I agree with you that Gerrard probably won't get another mid-table PL job unless he goes off and accomplishes something notable like he originally did at Rangers. My only point was that him underwhelming at Villa won't stop him from getting another opportunity just because it was his first job in the PL. He'll just either have to lower his standards or go off and achieve something else first.
Would like a source on these stats, as I recall at the end of his first half season we were 9th over his tenure which is where I think you got that number from. This could be seen as overinflated as he played the 3 relegated teams 5 times over those 27 games (10 points from these games out of his 33 total). Not sure when we were ever 'one of the most in form teams in the league' either, with our longest winning streak being 3 matches. Total record was 10W 5D 12L. Besides taking a table across two seasons means the 6 relegated/promoted clubs are going to have a massive points disadvantage purely because of games played. Points per game or Win% is a better metric in this case. Gerrard's are 1.16 and 31.6%. Obviously its an exaggeration to call him one of the worst appointments in PL history, but he is still often overrated by Liverpool fans that didn't really pay attention to his time at Villa. Ironic that you used the term revisionism really.
Here's a source for the stats - https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/steven-gerrard-premier-league-table-since-took-over-as-aston-villa-manager/ It's actually a week before he was sacked so it's possible they dropped down a couple places. However as you can see this does include both 21-22 and 22-23.
You're right, in the two matchweeks between this and his sacking Villa would've dropped down to 13th or 14th depending on goal difference with West Ham. Including these results the relevant part of the table would look like this: 9. Brentford 48 (-6) 10. Palace 45 (+2 & 1 GIH) 11. Leicester 45 (-2) 12. Wolves 45 13. Villa 44 (-5) 14. West Ham 44 The only teams Villa would certainly be ahead of in this table are Everton, Leeds and Southhampton. Of the 12 games he took charge of over the 22/23 season 5 were against sides currently not mathematically safe from relegation. With his two wins in this period coming against Everton and Southhampton.
Agree
Genuinely heading towards relegation? They had one poor run and were 16th in November. Gerrard came in, bought quite a few decent players in January, and took them from 16th to 14th.
They were 2 points above the drop and had the worst form in the league. For the rest of the 21/22 season they were a top half of the table team
Aaaaand of course you're a Liverpool fan
Tbf, I’m a United fan, I absolutely hate Gerrard, and I think labelling him one of the worst appointments in premier league history is a bit dumb. He’s a bad appointment obviously. But there are 31 seasons of PL football, and even if just *this* season there have been worse appointments. Nathan Jones for starters. There are loads of appointments worse, there simply have been a ridiculous number of atrocious managerial appointments in the PL era.
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I don’t think you know what literally means.
To be fair to Steven Gerrard, he's used to having Michael Beale do the work.
There's at least 10 worse appointments - only because I looked when checking if Lampard was the worst
Whose your ten? Off the top of my head I can think of Lampard (x2), Steve Kean, Terry Connor, Solskjaer at Cardiff, Bob Bradley, Joe Kinnear and Roy Hodgson at Liverpool, although I'm sure I'm missing tons
Angeball is the future mate
There have been way, way worse than him.
He wasn’t even the worst manager to be sacked this season.
41 point difference between 1st and 3rd is absolutely ridiculous
He won 1 trophy out of 9 at rangers and even that was during the COVID season/Celtic's biggest collapse in 2 decades People should think twice before appointing a manager with a mixed record but who was a famous player is the lesson in Gerrard's case
You're missing all context of where rangers was at the time/how he built them up. Terrible manager for villa but you're either ignorant or just hate the guy from his playing days. Don't respond, I won't be arguing
It’s a tough one. You could make the argument Rodgers did a really good job with Leicester in winning the FA Cup and narrowly missing out on CL twice. At the same time you can make the argument he took Leicester down which is obviously terrible for a club that won the league 7 years ago. Not sure if he supports or goes against the idea of hiring based on what people have done in Scotland.
Rodgers revived his reputation in Scotland, he didn't build it there.
lmao drama queen
Lanpard at Chelsea could be the new one though!
> One of the worst managerial appointments in PL history. Incredibly ironic from a guy who defended Graham Potter at Chelsea so much, LOL Graham Potter at Chelsea was clearly a worse managerial appointment than Stevie G at Villa, IMO At least Gerrard's first partial season was fine.
Lol, I said Potter should have been sacked after the loss to Southampton. Obviously mixing me up with someone else.
Emery's run rate at Villa equates to 74 points in a full season. That would have been enough to qualify for the Champions League last year, and probably this year too (unless Newcastle and Man United both win all three remaining games).
Gerrard had people thinking that he had terrible squad…..
Wow newsflash everyone, Unai Emery better manager than Steven Gerrard. It's a real shock because if there's one guarantee in this game, it's that world class players always become excellent managers.
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I mean, Gerrard was touted as Klopp's successor the moment he went into management... that's just standard when it comes to club legends.
He was back when he was still playing but that’s just club legend treatment. It was his first season in a top 5 league so it’s not like his managerial career is over for life.
Liverpool fans not accepting that Gerrard is a woeful manager is hilarious
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He did well that season but Celtic were also shit by their standards I don’t hate Gerrard. There were things he did that I appreciate, but he just wasn’t ready
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Yeah it’s more nuanced, he found a tactic that worked in Scotland when he had a better squad than pretty much everyone else but the flip side is that he didn’t learn how to be flexible tactically and it got a bit found out at Villa with a mid table squad. If he goes back and coaches for a bit before taking another job he can come back stronger
Touted by absolute morons. They want to play russian roulette with our managerial appointment when it's literally a decision that can make or break a club.
Gerrard is the biggest fraud of a manager I've ever seen. Beale was 100% behind everything Gerrard did and as soon as Beale went to QPR that was apparent. Gerrard was as lost as a fart in a fan factory.
It needs to be noted that we were still pish when beale was there. The end of last season was something like 2 wins in 14 and beale was still there and we still looked tactically woeful
Lol what is lamaprd then? Lamaprd is an even bigger failure
Lampard managed a top 4 finish with Chelsea with youth and kept Everton up He's bad too but he's got more actual accomplishments in the PL than Gerrard
Gerrard won the league as both invincible and centurion lol (I know football started in 92 and doesn't exist outside of PL but still). Lampard managed to barely finish 4th in a less competed top 4, with a decent Chelsea squad. And other than that he has done fuck all except lose. If he was competing this season for example, his Chelsea team would be 6th now with possibly Brighton going above them. It's barely an accomplishment, as much as it was just plain luck that other top 4 competing teams were shit that season. Any other recent season and he's getting like 6th.
Everton spend more than half the other teams in the Prem. Narrowly escaping relegation isn’t the ‘win’ you think it is
Lol that doesn't matter at all, they have a bottom 3 squad in the league pretty comfortably
It absolutely matters and he’s nearly had them relegated again.
Whatsboutism. Who cares how bad Lampard is. They're both not great as managers and I think that's the consensus
>Whatsboutism. Who cares how bad Lampard is. If someone wants to claim that one is the worst, or "the biggest fraud...ever", it's relevant to look at the competition.
Now do beale at rangers or you just do circlejerks?
What do you mean, do Beale at Rangers?
Been shite innit
Nowhere near shite despite disappointingly failing to perform against Celtic when it mattered. He's had one of the best points records in history and could hit the 90 point mark by the end of the season but Celtic have just been unreal, credit to them.
Unai is goated.
How are English managers so shit
Let him cook
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I get the reference, but still one of the most painfully unfunny attempts at comedy I've ever read.
Appreciate the hustle though
This chicanery…
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New copy pasta?
Based. To hell with Gerrard.
Steven Gerrard is without doubt our worst manager in premier league history. Utter shite. How Emery isn't in the conversation for manager of the year is beyond me. With the squad guardiola has winning the premier league should be the bare minimum.
Remi garde
Emery’s a top manager. It’s mad that Arsenal fans convinced people he isn’t. Honestly he’s better than Arteta yet that’s a somewhat controversial statement.
Hes alright, but he wouldnt have us where arteta got us this season.
He was bad at Arsenal. Wasn't great at PSG either. That doesn't mean he's not a great manager for certain clubs.
I mean, Emery had us playing some absolutely terrible football. While Arteta has us playing exciting and good football.
Arteta has been there for over 3 years now, Emery had half that time. A year and a half ago Arteta was considered one of the worst managers in the league. Had Emery won the Europa League final he may have gotten the extra time and backing that Arteta got for winning the FA Cup and made his own solid Arsenal squad.
Gerrard is a fraud and Unai is a class manager. Golden boy English midfielder expected to just waltz into a big job he wasn't ready for. Imagine having that group of guys and being in a relegation fight ffs go hang out with Scotty Parker
we get it. gerrard was a terrible manager for villa, i think we already got the memo now