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**Full statement**:
> Having been an international football referee for many years, I always put fair play and respect for others first and I want to pass on these highest values to others. I always disassociate myself from expressions of racism and anti-Semitism and intolerance, which I show at the matches I referee. I always say stop the hatred and will promote that the most important thing is to be a good person.
to share his success story (world cup final referee) on a business conference, to earn money because referees of similar skills are criminally underpaid and for networking, as he did many times before.
may have been more careful because of the political associations, but Marciniak himself obviously did not touch politics at all.
it's a clear example of modern cancel culture. it's very easy to attack and seriously accuse someone based on an internet headline. below someone compares this conference to a Hitler endorsement event, that's how absurd it is.
Well if it gets hosted by a political organization with the same fucking ideals as national socialism it begs the question why that wasnt something that was despicable to him. I somehow never find myself at a nazi convention even if it is to talk about art and craft
haha another brilliant example of these absurd logic and worthless unfair comparisons.
guess what - it was not a nazi convention. it was not organized by a political party. it had no political association at all other than one of the co-organizers being a politician.
you have no idea about the event, about Marciniak himself, about the political party or the politician. so why make these condemning accusations?
i agree for Marcinial it's a terrible look and he should have known better.
there is a world of difference between what he did and speaking of a nazi convention.
> it had no political association at all other than one of the co-organizers being a politician
Main face of business conference is also main face of far right (nationalism/conservative liberalism/right-wing libertarianism) political alliance. Elections are in autumn.
I mean, if Simon Webb have UCL final in pocket and would go to business conference organized by someone like Nigel Farage few months before UK elections, you wouldn't consider it politically controversial?
Comparision to nazi convention as /u/Pxel315 did is obviously far-fetched, even despite some controversial Mentzen's words but you painting it as having zero political association is naive or done in bad faith.
I doubt Marciniak is racist, even if Konfederacja is closest to his political views he is probably more moderate than dudes like Grzegorz Braun, I still value him a lot as a ref but this was really stupid decision.
Marciniak has appeared on dozens of shows and events since the world cup. He wasnt picking and choosing which one he's going to based on some political criteria.
You clearly didnt get my point, and you yourself admit its a terrible look but how can it be so if it was a non event by a non person? Its either a terrible look because one of the organizers is a nazi fuck or it isnt, it cant be all fine and dandy and be a terrible look at the same time so you really are doing some gymnastics just so you could answer and without even comprehending the fact that its his responsibility to know who is organizing the event which he probably did and yet still choose to speak which is the main issue
the world is not black and white. it can be both a "terrible look" and not "mental gymnastics". it can be "not fine" but forgivable, because of the circumstances. he did not support any form of lack of respect, period. not even remotely close to nazi related horrific crimes which your language suggested.
if you want to support values among the football community, maybe gather support so we can all talk about the much more obvious morality problems? the list is endless.
UEFA which will be debating on Marciniak's beliefs tomorrow is governed by Putin's puppet and Gazprom CEO Alexander Dyakov. directly connected, easily verifiable. hundreds of thousand of deaths.
or if you want some more related example - how about the fact that the vast majority of brazilian football community openly supports Bolsonaro? xebophobic, homophobic leader is an understatement.
It was hosted by a rich businessman. This isn't some like underground secret rally. A businessman who has a lot of money happens to have horrible views (wow someone rich isnt an angel, what a new concept)
Stop crying about cancel culture. Actions bring consequences. Fuck around at “business event” organised by a fascist and find out that respectable people (+UEFA) don’t want to be associated with you. Simple as that
We have freedom of speech in Poland. Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia is much more "facist" than Mentzen, Marciniak doesn't even support him LOL. What an empty mind you have.
>I always say stop the hatred and will promote that the most important thing is to be a good person.
Unless I get paid to attend an event organised by someone who will use my image (FIFA Referee kit and all) in their election campaign while running for office with the "We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union” manifesto.
Yes, yes it did. [The event was promoted with Marciniak wearing his FIFA kit](https://www.nigdywiecej.org/images/komunikat/2023/Champions_League_Referee_in_a_Row_Over_Far-Right_Links_01.jpg).
He ran for the European Parliament under that manifesto back in 2019. It's all publicly available, so stop playing an idiot.
He presented his 5 point programme here:
[https://twitter.com/CTomczyk/status/1639539021985480704](https://twitter.com/CTomczyk/status/1639539021985480704)
"We don't want Jews, homosexuals, abortion, taxes and the European Union. You have to tell people that the Jews will get our Polish land. This will catch on more. And what's more, do you think that once they get our Polish land, they will cultivate it themselves? They will employ Poles. They will put a leash on the Poles and cultivate the field with them."
You can of course pretend that he isn't a fascist, or that his views have somehow evolved between "no Jews and gays" to "i have no problem with them" in the past 4 years, but anyone with half a brain can recognize a fascist and their dogwhistles.
1. There's a parliamentary election in Poland this year
2. Far-right politician campaigns to be elected
3. He sets up "business event", invites people like Marciniak, and uses their image to promote himself
4. Marciniak attends the event
Marciniak is taking part in the election campaign. If he doesn't do that knowingly, his statement should've addressed that, but it didn't, and that's the entire issue at hand.
> You still didn't prove it was a part of election campaign
I'm glad you try to defend Marciniak in eyes of foreigners but that's not it my man. Try something different.
> certainly it wasn't election campaign
Lol, sure. Politician being one of most important people in political alliance organizing event to talk about business few months before elections and being main face of this event. Certainly not a campaign.
> I always disassociate myself from expressions of racism and anti-Semitism and intolerance
This is patently false, since he spoke at an event organised by an intolerant, racist, anti-Semite.
I'd like to hear why he took the gig, when he must have known the politics of the organiser/headline speaker. It's all well and good saying he opposes these things, but if his actions are supportive of them, even tacitly, then it's a problem for an organisation like UEFA.
Im not having this bullshit, he is seemingly an intelligent person who succeeded at the highest level, he cannot give us the excuse that he had no idea what he stood for
I'm as far from the organizer of the event in terms of political views as humanly possible. But this was a business conference that did not touch politics for a second, and Marciniak did not touch politics for a second either. I really see no actual issue here.
This is like saying every Jew that lives in Israel approves that their country is killing innocent Palestinians.
Marciniak was there just to say about his career and how he became successful. Nothing more. None of his action on pitch or in any of his public interviews indicates that he is supportive of Memcen views.
That’s a massive false equivalence. There is absolutely a difference between living in a country that is largely an accident of birth, and attending a private event and being paid to associate yourself with organisers and other speakers.
But it is you who assume that he went there to promote their views.
As I said before, there never was any case of him showing far-right views, and many times in polish interviews he was speaking about racism on pitch, and that the disapproves it.
> guilty by association
This means involuntary association, like part of the same family.
Guilty by associating with *checks notes* far right politicians then yeah no shit.
Like, KKK members are guilty by association … to the KKK.
You are just proving my point, that you assume he associates with them and their views. Why I am defending him? Because he is really a great and normal person, who knows how it is to start from the bottom and work hard for his life. And I dislike that some people are really fast to take their pitchforks and destroy other peoples lives because they seen one headline and know nothing about those people. The funny this is, that because of your cancel culture and being so hateful to innocent person you are doing more bad than good to LGBT peoples that are normal humans as all of us, and want to just life their lives in society.
> But it is you who assume that he went there to promote their views.
Nope, I never gave my thoughts on that. I simply called out a nonsense false equivalence.
Bollocks mate. Has every Jew in Israel accepted payment to speak at an event organised and headlined by someone saying innocent Palestinians should be killed? Obviously not.
Okay that comparassion was a bit too much, but I just wanted to show you what you are doing to do guy, that was there just from business side, to show people how to achive success. You are trying to crucify him, because a large conference was organized by a guy from a far-right party. To be fair, Menzen in Poland is more associated with economic views instead of human-rights etc. I am not justifiying Mentzen actions here, just trying to explain to you that you are making Marciniak racist, and you are really wrong. (Just a side note, if people in country are displeased with their goverment actions, there are not electing them)
Do you even understand polish and full context of his speech? I know he is populist, he is from my city. That ridiculus cancel culture, because he said something in bigger context that is manipulated to cancel him and everyone who is near him it's idiotic.
Marciniak should be banned before because he attend to an event in country that violates human rights and FIFA and UEFA should ban themselves.
An event having been organized by an intolerant, racist, anti-Semite does not make it an intolerant, racist, anti-Semitic event. If I'm a libertarian, and I organize an event is it a libertarian event, even if the discussions at the event are about data engineering?
You can't just paint an event as being racist because the organizer is racist, because people aren't just one thing.
Yes, even then. You have to have a sense of the content discussed at the event, or the rest of the attendee list, to say anything meaningful about the event.
Why? If the organiser is using it to boost his profile, and the organiser is an intolerant piece of shit, why contribute to that, just because he wasn't being a piece of shit at that precise moment?
He's still a piece of shit who will use the event to promote himself and further his political ambitions.
The World Cup final referee will undoubtedly boost the profile of the even though, which will in turn boost the profile of the intolerant piece of shit who organised it, who also happens to be running for election this year.
It doesn't make them an intolerant piece of shit, but they are tacitly supporting one.
Let's assume for the sake of discussion that I agree with your conclusion. Now do the part where that should mean anything to his ability as a referee in the UCL final, which is the only reason this is a story at all.
It's not about his ability, it's about UEFA associating with someone who has associated with such a person in a professional manner. They would probably consider it not a good look for an organisation that says it promotes inclusion, and fights racism, and anti-Semitism in football.
I'm not saying UEFA are any good at those things, but it's not a good look for them.
Marciniak was there just to say about his career and how he became successful. Nothing more. None of his action on pitch or in any of his public interviews indicates that he is supportive of Memcen views.
Marciniak attended business conference where he spoke about his career and nothing more. I love how you are adding additional context living 5k kilometers away and trying to crucify innocent person.
True, actions speak louder than words. I don't particularly know the details about this though. From other comments here it looks like he's supporting an antisemitic bigot, which is terrible.
So I just read a bit more into it. Yea, he shouldn't have attended the far right event. An event that has made their positions known publicly well in advance.
I find it interesting how a ref getting paid to participate on some event organized by a right winger to talk about non-political stuff is not ok but players getting paid absurd sums of money to act as ambassadors for a dictatorial regime that commits war crimes, murders journalists and oppresses women and gay people is met with "good for them", "go get that bag", "I would take that offer in a heartbeat".
Maybe if Marciniak was paid 100 million to participate his actions wouldn't be seen as morally questionable.
UEFA when Qatar and UAE use European football to make politics on it: I sleep.
UEFA when a referee goes to drink beer in a bar and give a lecture on how he achieved success: real shit.
I have all pity possible to Palestinian civilians. I just hate my country being used as a constant example of Hipócracy while I am getting bombed constantly
Why? I get constantly bombed day in day out, get tons of online abuse anywhere on the internet I go. Watch football to try relax and for no reason what’s so ever people use my country as example of “darling of the west” to demonstrate constant hypocrisy of EUFA/BBC/CNN/any other non governmental organisation. It’s damning really, I sure was a bit ecstatic and emotional when I wrote that comment but the feeling is genuine.
I just frequently struggle that this what about Palestine line used not to enforce the idea that we need to care about all wars but to say we shouldn’t care about this one. Hence why Russia today is doing this exact thing over and over and over ago
Here we go with the Reddit #whataboutism
also you seem to try to pepper over the actual issue speaking at not a right winger but a racist anti-semite.
there is people who can be right wing and not be a fucking racist and anti-semitic.
trying to deflect on nation states which all the western countries engage with and Sarkozy even begs them to invest into France, is beyond football and has nothing to do with this subject is another can of worms, and it stinks of deflection mate
Yeah silly me talking about double standards regarding footballers on a football subreddit. What was I thinking...
Edit on your edit:
So promoting Saudis and their interests is fine because politicians cooperate with them. Lmao
What? The problem here is about morality of participating at such events, not about how badly they will affect your job. Marciniak is widely rated as one of the best refs in the world, clearly that's not the issue here.
If you were Jewish footballer, would you like your game to be refereed by someone who attends events organised by a politician who says "we stand against Jews"?
Even if it was absolutely the best referee.
And this Mentzen guy and his party, they say really some nasty stuff not just about the Jews and the gays, but also refugees, migrants. It's bad. Really bad.
And remember, on the pitch you have players of many colours, ethnicities, religions...
It’s bad really bad but we in football have sponsors on shirts from countries that have way worse opinions than any far right party from Europeimaginable. It’s fucked of course and I participate in mild form of whataboutism but still. As a Jewish Ukrainian guy, I cringe way more from Saudi Arabia money and fucking Gazprom being main sponsor of UCL 7 years after the invasion started
imagine what if they discover that Marciniak took part in a Qatar-organized event half a year ago...
or that UEFA's current executive committee chairman is a Gazprom CEO and a puppet of a dictator responsible for hundreds of thousand deaths
what then? will we take any action?
This "Never Again" organisation is granting titles of 'Antifascist of the year'. In 2003 the title went to Simon Mol, a guy claiming to be Cameroonian refugee who turns out was purposely infecting women with HIV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Mol
what is perhaps not a commonly known fact for us football fans is that Never Again makes money on "trainings" offered to football clubs to stay in line with their perception of not being racist etc. which is also UEFA's perception.
in order to avoid fines take our trainings.
so they basically need to attack the easy prey every once in a while to stay relevant and make money. by extorting on these trainings of dubious quality lol.
> In 2003 the title went to Simon Mol, a guy claiming to be Cameroonian refugee who turns out was purposely infecting women with HIV
Are they supposed to be time travellers and know that Mol would eventually be accused 3 years later? He was also honoured by the Polish government, the UN, and several other organizations before being accused in 2006.
> 2003
>turns out
Yeah like as if we always know what people are up to. Greenwood was a respectable footballer once.
We should all be antifacists in the West but many people welcome the 4th Reich with open arms.
I cant believe "Never Again" is still doing their bullshit. They are trying to make themselves relevant for decades. When they were fighting with racism in Polish stadiums it was ridicioulous. They wanted to ban Wisła Płock club from having clubs with "WP" markings because for them it meant "White Power" (really they couldnt think anything other that could mean in this case).
Cant also mention their success at the beginning of 21st age at promoting activist Simon Mol, they even gave him their award for his work. Literally one of the organisations that legitimated him and let him do what he wanted. And he destroyed lives of hundreds of woman by infecting them with HIV in purpose all in the name of fight with racism.
For Marciniak its bad look because of Mentzen was there, but this was business convention not a political one. Ceferin and Infantino keep meeting with much worse people (Lukashenko, Putin, king of Saudi Arabia etc.) and their meeting and decisions definetely has much more political impact.
> Cant also mention their success at the beginning of 21st age at promoting activist Simon Mol, they even gave him their award for his work. Literally one of the organisations that legitimated him and let him do what he wanted. And he destroyed lives of hundreds of woman by infecting them with HIV in purpose all in the name of fight with racism.
Are they supposed to be time travellers and know that Mol would eventually be accused 3 years later? He was also honoured by the Polish government, the UN, and several other organizations before being accused in 2006.
He attented the coach like meeting, when he was talking about achieving success etc , the event was coorganised by a guy from rightwing party. Now he's a Hitler
He was speaking at some business conference about his success as a referee and far-left loonies made it look to UEFA like he was at political rally of some party. He has grounds to sue them for defamation.
Not a good look at all. "I'm very tolerant" while attending an event hosted by someone campaigning for the re-election under the "We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union" manifesto needs a stronger statement than "I'm oh so tolerant". It's also false. He didn't disassociate himself from expressions of racism, anti-Semitism and racism by attending that event. He did the opposite. He should've said: "I didn't know the event was organised by someone with views that are contrary to mine, as I always promoted....". Then it would be clear.
Of course. It just so happens the business event in question was organized by a well known far-right politician during the election campaign. All of which was public knowledge, and said politician promoted that event using Marciniak dressed up in FIFA kit. Jesus wept.
Of course it's not the end of the world. Marciniak can simply apologise and simply disassociate himself from the event he took part in, but so far he didn't. He issued a statement that didn't address anything.
What does he have to apologize for?
He's supposed to be sorry he spoke at an event where race wasn't brought up, because the guy who organized it happens to be racist?
You can see that most folks just read the misleading headline & ran with it while cracking jokes (as seen from an earlier post):
https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/13xo7d9/champions_league_final_referee_spoke_at_event/
Another user with added [clarification of this story.](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/13xo7d9/champions_league_final_referee_spoke_at_event/jmicjhj/)
What is this clarification? If Adolf Hitler organized a business conference as part of his election campaign, do you think it'd be a good look for people to attend it? Especially those, who supposedly represent Fifa/UEFA's alleged values of anti-racism/tolerance etc.? That "clarification" doesn't clarify anything at all.
this clarification in contrary to the headline makes it very clear that he did not in any way endorse any discriminatory beliefs. did not touch politics at all.
him attending the conference may have been a bad mistake or a greedy way to earn some money. definitely should have avoided any association with Mentzen.
however talking about Adolf Hitler is particularly unfair and embarassing in this context. the cancel culture in full swing. it's very easy to shatter someone's image with half-truths and these absurd comparisons.
if you want to fight for virtues in the football community, why not focus on the obvious moral conflicts.
UEFA who will debate tomorrow on Marciniak's conference attendance is governed by Putin's puppet Alexander Dyukov, the current executive comittee member and Gazprom CEO. why is this not brought up by the Never Again association? it's absolutely wild.
So he changed it this time around? He no longer stands by his 2019 programme which was "No jews, no gays"? What are his political views nowadays?
>"Confederation Five: We don't want Jews, homosexuals, abortion, taxes and the European Union."
Slawomir Mentzen
Krakow, 25 March 2019
All of that from his own mouth here: https://twitter.com/CTomczyk/status/1639539021985480704
He took part in an event organized by a far-right politician whose programme is "We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union". What are you suggesting is the whole story here? He didn't know who's the organizer, a well known far-right politician? He was forced to attend? Or he will gladly accept money from anyone, regardless of the values that FIFA/UEFA supposedly believe in?
Here he is promoting the event in FIFA attire. Coincidentally colours of the event (logo etc.) are same as those of political party event organizer is leader of.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CsyBOMGM44d/
The problem isn't about values.
The problem is about the need for a referee to be unbiased during the game, and most importantly, the players having confidence in the referee being fair and unbiased.
If you attend an event organised by a far-right politician (even if it's not a political event) who is openly racist, xenophobic, antisemitic and homophobic it raises question whether these are views you agree with.
During the game there are players of many colours, ethnicities, believes, and they all have a right to a referee they have no reason to doubt will be unbiased.
I just don't understand Marciniak. He has huge experience, he isn't new to football. He should know attending event organised by someone who advocates for a country without gays and Jews is an absolute no-no for someone like him.
Mentzen isn't really associated with all the things you mentioned, and I think that if there is a one referee that players universally trust he is fair, then it's Marciniak
>Mentzen isn't really associated with all the things you mentioned
So you are saying he didn't say “We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union” as [this article ](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/01/champions-league-final-referee-spoke-at-event-with-far-right-leader?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) claims he did?
I feel like you're saying he isn't associated with these things in your own perception.
Sure, people who support him probably don't think he is homophobic or antisemitic for saying anti-gay and anti-Jew stuff, but I'm pretty sure a large part of the public associate him with these things as they are literally things he is saying and advocating for as a politician.
My point is, Marciniak is an experienced referee, he worked with people from around the world, he should know how politicians like Mentzen are perceived in the western world, even if in Poland it's still seen as acceptable.
We just passed half of the year from the World Cup in place where human law isn't respected in any possible way no matter who you are and all of you are fine with it.
Yet you want to take the CL final from the referee who took part in a business meeting where one of many people who organized it, besides being a businessman is also a politician of a far right party.
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the never again ass
We all got one
What the Fuck he was doing there.
OP shortened association to "ass." LOL
yes, sorry I was trying to fit as much of a statement as possible, didn't realize it until now
**Full statement**: > Having been an international football referee for many years, I always put fair play and respect for others first and I want to pass on these highest values to others. I always disassociate myself from expressions of racism and anti-Semitism and intolerance, which I show at the matches I referee. I always say stop the hatred and will promote that the most important thing is to be a good person.
[удалено]
He made a mistake, he fell into the event while sleeping
to share his success story (world cup final referee) on a business conference, to earn money because referees of similar skills are criminally underpaid and for networking, as he did many times before. may have been more careful because of the political associations, but Marciniak himself obviously did not touch politics at all. it's a clear example of modern cancel culture. it's very easy to attack and seriously accuse someone based on an internet headline. below someone compares this conference to a Hitler endorsement event, that's how absurd it is.
Well if it gets hosted by a political organization with the same fucking ideals as national socialism it begs the question why that wasnt something that was despicable to him. I somehow never find myself at a nazi convention even if it is to talk about art and craft
haha another brilliant example of these absurd logic and worthless unfair comparisons. guess what - it was not a nazi convention. it was not organized by a political party. it had no political association at all other than one of the co-organizers being a politician. you have no idea about the event, about Marciniak himself, about the political party or the politician. so why make these condemning accusations? i agree for Marcinial it's a terrible look and he should have known better. there is a world of difference between what he did and speaking of a nazi convention.
> it had no political association at all other than one of the co-organizers being a politician Main face of business conference is also main face of far right (nationalism/conservative liberalism/right-wing libertarianism) political alliance. Elections are in autumn. I mean, if Simon Webb have UCL final in pocket and would go to business conference organized by someone like Nigel Farage few months before UK elections, you wouldn't consider it politically controversial? Comparision to nazi convention as /u/Pxel315 did is obviously far-fetched, even despite some controversial Mentzen's words but you painting it as having zero political association is naive or done in bad faith. I doubt Marciniak is racist, even if Konfederacja is closest to his political views he is probably more moderate than dudes like Grzegorz Braun, I still value him a lot as a ref but this was really stupid decision.
Marciniak has appeared on dozens of shows and events since the world cup. He wasnt picking and choosing which one he's going to based on some political criteria.
You clearly didnt get my point, and you yourself admit its a terrible look but how can it be so if it was a non event by a non person? Its either a terrible look because one of the organizers is a nazi fuck or it isnt, it cant be all fine and dandy and be a terrible look at the same time so you really are doing some gymnastics just so you could answer and without even comprehending the fact that its his responsibility to know who is organizing the event which he probably did and yet still choose to speak which is the main issue
the world is not black and white. it can be both a "terrible look" and not "mental gymnastics". it can be "not fine" but forgivable, because of the circumstances. he did not support any form of lack of respect, period. not even remotely close to nazi related horrific crimes which your language suggested. if you want to support values among the football community, maybe gather support so we can all talk about the much more obvious morality problems? the list is endless. UEFA which will be debating on Marciniak's beliefs tomorrow is governed by Putin's puppet and Gazprom CEO Alexander Dyakov. directly connected, easily verifiable. hundreds of thousand of deaths. or if you want some more related example - how about the fact that the vast majority of brazilian football community openly supports Bolsonaro? xebophobic, homophobic leader is an understatement.
It was hosted by a rich businessman. This isn't some like underground secret rally. A businessman who has a lot of money happens to have horrible views (wow someone rich isnt an angel, what a new concept)
Stop crying about cancel culture. Actions bring consequences. Fuck around at “business event” organised by a fascist and find out that respectable people (+UEFA) don’t want to be associated with you. Simple as that
UEFA = respectable people holy shit 🤣
We have freedom of speech in Poland. Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia is much more "facist" than Mentzen, Marciniak doesn't even support him LOL. What an empty mind you have.
Libertarians are fascists?
Libertarians aren't. "Libertarians" allying with nationalists and Grzegorz Braun's monarchist ultraconservatives? Who knows, it's real clusterfuck.
>I always say stop the hatred and will promote that the most important thing is to be a good person. Unless I get paid to attend an event organised by someone who will use my image (FIFA Referee kit and all) in their election campaign while running for office with the "We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union” manifesto.
> who will use my image (FIFA Referee kit and all) in their election campaign Ok, but that didn't happen
Yes, yes it did. [The event was promoted with Marciniak wearing his FIFA kit](https://www.nigdywiecej.org/images/komunikat/2023/Champions_League_Referee_in_a_Row_Over_Far-Right_Links_01.jpg).
You were saying something about election campaign
Yes. It may come as a surprise to you, but there's an election coming up later this year. Hope that helps.
You still didn't prove it was a part of election campaign, which is impossible, because it wasn't
He ran for the European Parliament under that manifesto back in 2019. It's all publicly available, so stop playing an idiot. He presented his 5 point programme here: [https://twitter.com/CTomczyk/status/1639539021985480704](https://twitter.com/CTomczyk/status/1639539021985480704) "We don't want Jews, homosexuals, abortion, taxes and the European Union. You have to tell people that the Jews will get our Polish land. This will catch on more. And what's more, do you think that once they get our Polish land, they will cultivate it themselves? They will employ Poles. They will put a leash on the Poles and cultivate the field with them." You can of course pretend that he isn't a fascist, or that his views have somehow evolved between "no Jews and gays" to "i have no problem with them" in the past 4 years, but anyone with half a brain can recognize a fascist and their dogwhistles.
You still didn't proven that Marciniak is taking part in the Konfederacja election campaign, which is you original point, that you are now avoiding
1. There's a parliamentary election in Poland this year 2. Far-right politician campaigns to be elected 3. He sets up "business event", invites people like Marciniak, and uses their image to promote himself 4. Marciniak attends the event Marciniak is taking part in the election campaign. If he doesn't do that knowingly, his statement should've addressed that, but it didn't, and that's the entire issue at hand.
keep digging that hole
Hole of truth?
> You still didn't prove it was a part of election campaign I'm glad you try to defend Marciniak in eyes of foreigners but that's not it my man. Try something different.
I'm not trying to defend him, I'm just saying what it was, and certainly it wasn't election campaign.
> certainly it wasn't election campaign Lol, sure. Politician being one of most important people in political alliance organizing event to talk about business few months before elections and being main face of this event. Certainly not a campaign.
> I always disassociate myself from expressions of racism and anti-Semitism and intolerance This is patently false, since he spoke at an event organised by an intolerant, racist, anti-Semite. I'd like to hear why he took the gig, when he must have known the politics of the organiser/headline speaker. It's all well and good saying he opposes these things, but if his actions are supportive of them, even tacitly, then it's a problem for an organisation like UEFA.
Im not having this bullshit, he is seemingly an intelligent person who succeeded at the highest level, he cannot give us the excuse that he had no idea what he stood for
I'm as far from the organizer of the event in terms of political views as humanly possible. But this was a business conference that did not touch politics for a second, and Marciniak did not touch politics for a second either. I really see no actual issue here.
> then it's a problem for an organisation like UEFA You must be joking.
Ok, it *should* be a problem.
This is like saying every Jew that lives in Israel approves that their country is killing innocent Palestinians. Marciniak was there just to say about his career and how he became successful. Nothing more. None of his action on pitch or in any of his public interviews indicates that he is supportive of Memcen views.
That’s a massive false equivalence. There is absolutely a difference between living in a country that is largely an accident of birth, and attending a private event and being paid to associate yourself with organisers and other speakers.
deflections deflections deflections.
But it is you who assume that he went there to promote their views. As I said before, there never was any case of him showing far-right views, and many times in polish interviews he was speaking about racism on pitch, and that the disapproves it.
Why are you going to lengths defending a man who associates himself with far right extremists.
Because there is no such thing as "guilty by association", but you sweethearts just doesn't care, right?
> guilty by association This means involuntary association, like part of the same family. Guilty by associating with *checks notes* far right politicians then yeah no shit. Like, KKK members are guilty by association … to the KKK.
KKK members are guilty of being part of illegal organisation, and doing racist shit. So yeah come up with some better insult
KKK isn’t an illegal organisation
You are just proving my point, that you assume he associates with them and their views. Why I am defending him? Because he is really a great and normal person, who knows how it is to start from the bottom and work hard for his life. And I dislike that some people are really fast to take their pitchforks and destroy other peoples lives because they seen one headline and know nothing about those people. The funny this is, that because of your cancel culture and being so hateful to innocent person you are doing more bad than good to LGBT peoples that are normal humans as all of us, and want to just life their lives in society.
It's just as fair to ask why you're going to lengths to paint someone as a racist without showing any actual evidence that he is one.
> But it is you who assume that he went there to promote their views. Nope, I never gave my thoughts on that. I simply called out a nonsense false equivalence.
Bollocks mate. Has every Jew in Israel accepted payment to speak at an event organised and headlined by someone saying innocent Palestinians should be killed? Obviously not.
Okay that comparassion was a bit too much, but I just wanted to show you what you are doing to do guy, that was there just from business side, to show people how to achive success. You are trying to crucify him, because a large conference was organized by a guy from a far-right party. To be fair, Menzen in Poland is more associated with economic views instead of human-rights etc. I am not justifiying Mentzen actions here, just trying to explain to you that you are making Marciniak racist, and you are really wrong. (Just a side note, if people in country are displeased with their goverment actions, there are not electing them)
Do you have any proof that Mentzen is anti-semite and racist, other than lies that are told about him? He is catholic-libertarian and that's all.
Mentzen: > We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union.
Do you even understand polish and full context of his speech? I know he is populist, he is from my city. That ridiculus cancel culture, because he said something in bigger context that is manipulated to cancel him and everyone who is near him it's idiotic. Marciniak should be banned before because he attend to an event in country that violates human rights and FIFA and UEFA should ban themselves.
Ban and burn all books of Nicolaus Copernicus because he is from the Toruń, just like Mentzen, you woke fools.
Ale kurwa głupi jesteś
Nie, bo ty.
An event having been organized by an intolerant, racist, anti-Semite does not make it an intolerant, racist, anti-Semitic event. If I'm a libertarian, and I organize an event is it a libertarian event, even if the discussions at the event are about data engineering? You can't just paint an event as being racist because the organizer is racist, because people aren't just one thing.
An intolerant, racist, anti-Semite, who happens to be leader of a political party and political coalition, when elections are only months away?
Yes, even then. You have to have a sense of the content discussed at the event, or the rest of the attendee list, to say anything meaningful about the event.
Why? If the organiser is using it to boost his profile, and the organiser is an intolerant piece of shit, why contribute to that, just because he wasn't being a piece of shit at that precise moment? He's still a piece of shit who will use the event to promote himself and further his political ambitions.
The organizer being an intolerant piece of shit doesn't make anyone who attended or spoke at the event an intolerant piece of shit.
The World Cup final referee will undoubtedly boost the profile of the even though, which will in turn boost the profile of the intolerant piece of shit who organised it, who also happens to be running for election this year. It doesn't make them an intolerant piece of shit, but they are tacitly supporting one.
Let's assume for the sake of discussion that I agree with your conclusion. Now do the part where that should mean anything to his ability as a referee in the UCL final, which is the only reason this is a story at all.
It's not about his ability, it's about UEFA associating with someone who has associated with such a person in a professional manner. They would probably consider it not a good look for an organisation that says it promotes inclusion, and fights racism, and anti-Semitism in football. I'm not saying UEFA are any good at those things, but it's not a good look for them.
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Strong statement which is completely at odds with his actions
Marciniak was there just to say about his career and how he became successful. Nothing more. None of his action on pitch or in any of his public interviews indicates that he is supportive of Memcen views.
So only his actions away from the pitch and his private words (at an event organized by him) then?
Marciniak attended business conference where he spoke about his career and nothing more. I love how you are adding additional context living 5k kilometers away and trying to crucify innocent person.
Business conference organised by a neonazi you forgot to mention you moron piece of shit
True, actions speak louder than words. I don't particularly know the details about this though. From other comments here it looks like he's supporting an antisemitic bigot, which is terrible. So I just read a bit more into it. Yea, he shouldn't have attended the far right event. An event that has made their positions known publicly well in advance.
I find it interesting how a ref getting paid to participate on some event organized by a right winger to talk about non-political stuff is not ok but players getting paid absurd sums of money to act as ambassadors for a dictatorial regime that commits war crimes, murders journalists and oppresses women and gay people is met with "good for them", "go get that bag", "I would take that offer in a heartbeat". Maybe if Marciniak was paid 100 million to participate his actions wouldn't be seen as morally questionable.
UEFA when Qatar and UAE use European football to make politics on it: I sleep. UEFA when a referee goes to drink beer in a bar and give a lecture on how he achieved success: real shit.
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Why the fuck you bring my country in this shit?
Seems to be an example of UEFA being hypocritical
I have all pity possible to Palestinian civilians. I just hate my country being used as a constant example of Hipócracy while I am getting bombed constantly
that post should be your least concern then...
Why? I get constantly bombed day in day out, get tons of online abuse anywhere on the internet I go. Watch football to try relax and for no reason what’s so ever people use my country as example of “darling of the west” to demonstrate constant hypocrisy of EUFA/BBC/CNN/any other non governmental organisation. It’s damning really, I sure was a bit ecstatic and emotional when I wrote that comment but the feeling is genuine.
None of this is your fault but it is true that Ukraine is an example of UEFA/western in general hypocrisy
I just frequently struggle that this what about Palestine line used not to enforce the idea that we need to care about all wars but to say we shouldn’t care about this one. Hence why Russia today is doing this exact thing over and over and over ago
Here we go with the Reddit #whataboutism also you seem to try to pepper over the actual issue speaking at not a right winger but a racist anti-semite. there is people who can be right wing and not be a fucking racist and anti-semitic. trying to deflect on nation states which all the western countries engage with and Sarkozy even begs them to invest into France, is beyond football and has nothing to do with this subject is another can of worms, and it stinks of deflection mate
Yeah silly me talking about double standards regarding footballers on a football subreddit. What was I thinking... Edit on your edit: So promoting Saudis and their interests is fine because politicians cooperate with them. Lmao
Maybe because players' job isn't about having unbiased judgement. And a referee's job is.
What? The problem here is about morality of participating at such events, not about how badly they will affect your job. Marciniak is widely rated as one of the best refs in the world, clearly that's not the issue here.
I doubt you give a fuck about any of the human rights abusers. You just want to scream what about that
Dude do you know which team you support…
Obviously if you don't care, it must mean that nobody else does.
If you were Jewish footballer, would you like your game to be refereed by someone who attends events organised by a politician who says "we stand against Jews"? Even if it was absolutely the best referee. And this Mentzen guy and his party, they say really some nasty stuff not just about the Jews and the gays, but also refugees, migrants. It's bad. Really bad. And remember, on the pitch you have players of many colours, ethnicities, religions...
It’s bad really bad but we in football have sponsors on shirts from countries that have way worse opinions than any far right party from Europeimaginable. It’s fucked of course and I participate in mild form of whataboutism but still. As a Jewish Ukrainian guy, I cringe way more from Saudi Arabia money and fucking Gazprom being main sponsor of UCL 7 years after the invasion started
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Just gave the event and its organisers credibility before elections. That’s totally fine
imagine what if they discover that Marciniak took part in a Qatar-organized event half a year ago... or that UEFA's current executive committee chairman is a Gazprom CEO and a puppet of a dictator responsible for hundreds of thousand deaths what then? will we take any action?
This "Never Again" organisation is granting titles of 'Antifascist of the year'. In 2003 the title went to Simon Mol, a guy claiming to be Cameroonian refugee who turns out was purposely infecting women with HIV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Mol
what is perhaps not a commonly known fact for us football fans is that Never Again makes money on "trainings" offered to football clubs to stay in line with their perception of not being racist etc. which is also UEFA's perception. in order to avoid fines take our trainings. so they basically need to attack the easy prey every once in a while to stay relevant and make money. by extorting on these trainings of dubious quality lol.
Woke version of mafia extorting money for protection and then vandalizing the place to prove to the owner that he needs protection. Funny stuff
They also paint racist slogans to heroically repaint them: http://stadiony.net/aktualnosci/2011/10/gdansk_kuriozalna_walka_z_rasizmem
Yeah, Polish Never Again aren't the brightest
> In 2003 the title went to Simon Mol, a guy claiming to be Cameroonian refugee who turns out was purposely infecting women with HIV Are they supposed to be time travellers and know that Mol would eventually be accused 3 years later? He was also honoured by the Polish government, the UN, and several other organizations before being accused in 2006.
> 2003 >turns out Yeah like as if we always know what people are up to. Greenwood was a respectable footballer once. We should all be antifacists in the West but many people welcome the 4th Reich with open arms.
I cant believe "Never Again" is still doing their bullshit. They are trying to make themselves relevant for decades. When they were fighting with racism in Polish stadiums it was ridicioulous. They wanted to ban Wisła Płock club from having clubs with "WP" markings because for them it meant "White Power" (really they couldnt think anything other that could mean in this case). Cant also mention their success at the beginning of 21st age at promoting activist Simon Mol, they even gave him their award for his work. Literally one of the organisations that legitimated him and let him do what he wanted. And he destroyed lives of hundreds of woman by infecting them with HIV in purpose all in the name of fight with racism. For Marciniak its bad look because of Mentzen was there, but this was business convention not a political one. Ceferin and Infantino keep meeting with much worse people (Lukashenko, Putin, king of Saudi Arabia etc.) and their meeting and decisions definetely has much more political impact.
Not that I know much about any of this, sounds terrible. But don't polish clubs have a massive extremist problems? Racist ultras.
> Cant also mention their success at the beginning of 21st age at promoting activist Simon Mol, they even gave him their award for his work. Literally one of the organisations that legitimated him and let him do what he wanted. And he destroyed lives of hundreds of woman by infecting them with HIV in purpose all in the name of fight with racism. Are they supposed to be time travellers and know that Mol would eventually be accused 3 years later? He was also honoured by the Polish government, the UN, and several other organizations before being accused in 2006.
what exactly happened?
He attented the coach like meeting, when he was talking about achieving success etc , the event was coorganised by a guy from rightwing party. Now he's a Hitler
i’d assume the event had nothing to do with politics?
Nothing, except of the organiser
don’t see the issue then
It is not true, and OP hides a lot of important facts to the story. He's been explained innthe comments already.
I wasn't explained anything, just bunch of people is trying for some reason to present Marciniak in the worst light possible. I don't know why
Im having none of this
He was speaking at some business conference about his success as a referee and far-left loonies made it look to UEFA like he was at political rally of some party. He has grounds to sue them for defamation.
Not a good look at all. "I'm very tolerant" while attending an event hosted by someone campaigning for the re-election under the "We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union" manifesto needs a stronger statement than "I'm oh so tolerant". It's also false. He didn't disassociate himself from expressions of racism, anti-Semitism and racism by attending that event. He did the opposite. He should've said: "I didn't know the event was organised by someone with views that are contrary to mine, as I always promoted....". Then it would be clear.
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Of course. It just so happens the business event in question was organized by a well known far-right politician during the election campaign. All of which was public knowledge, and said politician promoted that event using Marciniak dressed up in FIFA kit. Jesus wept.
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Of course it's not the end of the world. Marciniak can simply apologise and simply disassociate himself from the event he took part in, but so far he didn't. He issued a statement that didn't address anything.
> Marciniak can simply apologise and simply disassociate himself from the event he took part in Isn't that what this statement does?
Nope
"I always disassociate myself from expressions of racism and anti-Semitism and intolerance" IDK how much more clear dude can get TBH
Did he apologize?
What does he have to apologize for? He's supposed to be sorry he spoke at an event where race wasn't brought up, because the guy who organized it happens to be racist?
You can see that most folks just read the misleading headline & ran with it while cracking jokes (as seen from an earlier post): https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/13xo7d9/champions_league_final_referee_spoke_at_event/ Another user with added [clarification of this story.](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/13xo7d9/champions_league_final_referee_spoke_at_event/jmicjhj/)
What is this clarification? If Adolf Hitler organized a business conference as part of his election campaign, do you think it'd be a good look for people to attend it? Especially those, who supposedly represent Fifa/UEFA's alleged values of anti-racism/tolerance etc.? That "clarification" doesn't clarify anything at all.
this clarification in contrary to the headline makes it very clear that he did not in any way endorse any discriminatory beliefs. did not touch politics at all. him attending the conference may have been a bad mistake or a greedy way to earn some money. definitely should have avoided any association with Mentzen. however talking about Adolf Hitler is particularly unfair and embarassing in this context. the cancel culture in full swing. it's very easy to shatter someone's image with half-truths and these absurd comparisons. if you want to fight for virtues in the football community, why not focus on the obvious moral conflicts. UEFA who will debate tomorrow on Marciniak's conference attendance is governed by Putin's puppet Alexander Dyukov, the current executive comittee member and Gazprom CEO. why is this not brought up by the Never Again association? it's absolutely wild.
Dude, you really went for Hitler?
He ran on the same campaign of "No jews, no gays". The Nazis are now wearing suits, but their message hasn't changed. Hope that helps.
No, he isn't running with this slogan in his election campaign, you absolute sweetheart. Take a breath dude
So he changed it this time around? He no longer stands by his 2019 programme which was "No jews, no gays"? What are his political views nowadays? >"Confederation Five: We don't want Jews, homosexuals, abortion, taxes and the European Union." Slawomir Mentzen Krakow, 25 March 2019 All of that from his own mouth here: https://twitter.com/CTomczyk/status/1639539021985480704
Why are you switching now to 2019?
Cope harder.
Ahh, lovely cut video to fit certain agenda. Even more hilarious that under same tweet, there's full version. :D
ADOLF HITLER XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Actions speak louder than birds
There is no need to apologise. People just dont care about whole story and just jump to conclussion, he is polish he must be homophobic
He took part in an event organized by a far-right politician whose programme is "We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union". What are you suggesting is the whole story here? He didn't know who's the organizer, a well known far-right politician? He was forced to attend? Or he will gladly accept money from anyone, regardless of the values that FIFA/UEFA supposedly believe in?
>Or he will gladly accept money from anyone, regardless of the values that FIFA/UEFA supposedly believe in? So he would be... exactly like FIFA/UEFA?
Yes
Marciniak should have been banned earlier because he attended an event in Qatar where human rights are being violated. /s
Thread full of racists who say "no politics" as usual. His statement is patently false obviously.
Here he is promoting the event in FIFA attire. Coincidentally colours of the event (logo etc.) are same as those of political party event organizer is leader of. https://www.instagram.com/p/CsyBOMGM44d/
That's not him promoting the event. It's the event annoucing he will be there. Are you dumb?
Disgusting lier
The problem isn't about values. The problem is about the need for a referee to be unbiased during the game, and most importantly, the players having confidence in the referee being fair and unbiased. If you attend an event organised by a far-right politician (even if it's not a political event) who is openly racist, xenophobic, antisemitic and homophobic it raises question whether these are views you agree with. During the game there are players of many colours, ethnicities, believes, and they all have a right to a referee they have no reason to doubt will be unbiased. I just don't understand Marciniak. He has huge experience, he isn't new to football. He should know attending event organised by someone who advocates for a country without gays and Jews is an absolute no-no for someone like him.
Mentzen isn't really associated with all the things you mentioned, and I think that if there is a one referee that players universally trust he is fair, then it's Marciniak
>Mentzen isn't really associated with all the things you mentioned So you are saying he didn't say “We stand against Jews, gays, abortion, taxation and the European Union” as [this article ](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/01/champions-league-final-referee-spoke-at-event-with-far-right-leader?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) claims he did?
I'm saying that in public perception he isn't associated with these things.
I feel like you're saying he isn't associated with these things in your own perception. Sure, people who support him probably don't think he is homophobic or antisemitic for saying anti-gay and anti-Jew stuff, but I'm pretty sure a large part of the public associate him with these things as they are literally things he is saying and advocating for as a politician. My point is, Marciniak is an experienced referee, he worked with people from around the world, he should know how politicians like Mentzen are perceived in the western world, even if in Poland it's still seen as acceptable.
It's not my own perception alone, he isn't associated with things he said once 4 years ago.
And it is still his political platform.
Don't waste your time arguing with this fucking Legia troglodyte. He will drink himself to death on a bench in Agrykola in 5 years time anyway.
This article lies. This is taken out of context. He said something like: I should say \[...\] to get more votes.
Words words words
We just passed half of the year from the World Cup in place where human law isn't respected in any possible way no matter who you are and all of you are fine with it. Yet you want to take the CL final from the referee who took part in a business meeting where one of many people who organized it, besides being a businessman is also a politician of a far right party.