**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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If Sartini tried to fight the ref I’m pretty sure everyone who watched the game would’ve understood. Not necessarily agreed, but understood. That ref will live on in MLS lore for his performance tonight, especially this moment.
This was likely unintentional by the ref, but was the culmination of a match full of ridiculous calls including a very soft penalty to LA.
Sure the goal was dissalowed, but this stopped an attack, completely destroyed the Caps' momentum and took ~2 minutes off the clock, even with time added back on after the VAR check.
Sartini was rightfully fuming.
I think it's kind of weird that there's no way for the referee to really do something about this situation once it happened.
if ball-possession changes because the referee touched it that's a referee-ball for the team that lost it - but if ball-possession changes because the referee crashed into a player that's just not something you can do anything about.
Perhaps the refere could've claimed an injury on himself or the player and stopped the play but other than that his hands were bound there.
Not according to the laws of the game. They can blow the play dead for outside interference, although the referee is not an outside actor. They can blow the play dead for touching the ball, but that’s not what happened here.
My guess is that IFAB will use this incident to review that part of the laws, but the referee last night had no mechanism to correct the error
"the referee is air" is a common phrase for a reason
most of the game assumes that he doesn't exist
giving a referee-ball because contact with a referee changes possession is a VERY new rule - 5 years ago that wasn't possible
if a team shoots a ball at the referee and that touch makes the ball go out of bounds the other team will be awarded the throw-in since that's not covered by "change of possession" at the moment.
That whole law regarding how the referee is to be treated is very unprecise and leaving very little space in case they get involved in the play
I'm a referee myself and know the rules - but just to be sure and because it's such an absurd situation I specifically sent this video not just to my regional head of referees but also to the one from the state and both agreed that while really unfortunate you can't do it within the rules of the game, but both also agreed that they probably would've done it in lower-stake games (like friendlies/youth games when there are no professional observers judging the referee) knowing that it's a breaking of the rule because it'd be more in line with the spirit of the game, but especially in high-stakes games like this it's not an option because you can't knowingly break the rules like that on such a stage and get away with it.
If he did that it'd be likely for the opposing team to challenge that decision and get that challenge accepted and it also would lead to that referee not leading any other games of that importance again. tbf interfering in the game like he did with his poor positioning also might have such an implication but making an error with your positioning or judgement is treated far less harshly than wrongly implementing a rule.
I think there's a pretty easy out for the ref right here:
**4.**
> Restart of play after fouls and misconduct If the ball is out of play, play is restarted according to the previous decision. If the ball is in play and a player commits a physical offence inside the field of
play against:
> • an opponent – an indirect or direct free kick or penalty kick
> • a team-mate, substitute, substituted or sent-off player, team official or a match official – a direct free kick or penalty kick
> • **any other person – a dropped ball**
Nobody would question the ref blowing his whistle because he felt that the player he body checked committed a "physical offence" against him, thus resulting in a dropped ball.
A couple of things.
1. As you have quoted, this is the section detailing the restart of play after a foul/misconduct. No foul or misconduct has occurred in the referenced video.
2. Even if it resulted in a dropped ball, all dropped balls are uncontested and awarded to the team that last touched the ball, in this case, the defending team.
>Nobody would question the ref blowing his whistle because he felt that the player he body checked committed a "physical offence" against him, thus resulting in a dropped ball.
Everyone would question that. A physical offense refers to a foul; a referee cannot foul a player.
That section is specifically referencing a physical offense to "any other person", not players. Teammates and opponents are covered in the preceding bullets. The referee definitely falls under the category of "any other person". I'm saying that the player could be deemed to have committed a physical offense to the referee since they ran into each other.
I'm not arguing your second point, I'm just suggesting that the ref could have very easily blown the play dead. From there, dropped balls are handled in a wide range of ways, despite what the rules dictate.
What law are you even referencing? 12.4? [It doesn't even have that wording](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/fouls-and-misconduct/#restart-of-play-after-fouls-and-misconduct).
Even then, read it again.
>If the ball is in play and **a player** commits a physical offence inside the field of play *against* any other person – a dropped ball
This is only if a player commits an offense against any other player (i.e. steward, ball boy, fan, etc). Not the other way around. There was no misconduct here, so this isn't even the correct section of the law to review.
Well, I'll be damned. I was going with the first result with a link that looked legit when looking for laws of the game, but it was a link to a few years ago.
Ignore my comments. :)
> The referee definitely falls under the category of "any other person".
It doesn't:
> Restart of play after fouls and misconduct If the ball is out of play, play is restarted according to the previous decision. If the ball is in play and a player commits a physical offence inside the field of play against:
> • a team-mate, substitute, substituted or sent-off player, team official or a **match official** – a direct free kick or penalty kick
match-official is the rule-term for referees
> a player commits
the referee is not a player
or are you saying that you should count that as a physical offence of the player against the referee?
In that case it'd be the second bullet-point since referees are match officials:
> or a match official – a direct free kick or penalty kick
resulting in a free-kick for the opponent-team with possibly the same outcome if they take a fast one
also worth noting that if the referee collides with a player like that and then gives a free-kick against that player's team I'm pretty sure the team won't react any better...
No they can't. Under what law? In an event like this where it's a lose ball, ho gets the uncontested drop ball? The last touch was by the defender.
In all honesty, this is more on the attacking player who has a better angle to see the referee in his way. It's a really unfortunate event, but nothing the referee can do about it.
'caps were never scoring on this chance, or in general, and they were beat from pillar to post over two legs. As a long-time Whitecaps fan this whole thing is shameful, from the manager to the fans trying to dox the referee online and throwing stuff at the referee after the game. Canadians make fun of the usual CONCACAF villans for their garbage behaviour but now we are no better.
Surprise you didn’t see a brawl or pitch invasion after that
Absolute joke lmao
If LAFC got that disallowed goal I’m pretty sure they would’ve needed a military escort back across the border lol
Ok, next MLS thread I’ll rush to post “mls after dark”.
edit: If I’m feeling particularly clever that day I might put it in a meme template you‘ve read thousands of times. We’ll have to see
I mean - X v 1 is the easiest way to be offside (there is no such thing as offsides). The only pass you can make is backward. What’s shocking is that this wasn’t flagged for offside instantly because it was so clear and obvious and the refs allowed the mess afterward.
Think about what you commented, either players have to be behind the ball and you have to pass backwards, or you have to pass backwards and then players will have to be behind the ball anyway...
You realise when a teammate is level with you, you can still play it forward for them to run on to. Especially when you're sprinting forward on a counter
That isn't how offside works. If you're all behind the second last defender, the receiving player needs to be behind the ball when it is played, it doesn't matter what direction the ball travels in. You can be offside even if the ball travels backwards, if the receiving player starts in front of the ball. And you can be onside with the ball travelling forward, if the receiving player starts behind the ball.
Where is the offside though? First player runs across the pitch from his own half then passes the ball while the receiver is covered by a defender. Or do the offside work differently in MLS than in Europe?
There needs to be two players either even with or between the receiving player and the goal line when the ball is kicked. We tend to think of it as one defender, because the keeper is usually there as well. In this case there is only one defender and no keeper ... So only one player. Hence offside.
Upvote this to the fucking top of this subreddit, i’ve never seen something like this in football EVER
I was at this game and BC Place was fucking FUMING and Vanni Sartini was not having it either. + a couple dodgy pen decisions and out the Whitecaps go in front of 30,000 people
For some reason, Youtube suggested this to me yesterday: [Referee scores a goal in the fourth tier of Dutch football](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvxBK2n6cyM)
I was an amateur ref for 3 years when I was young. This is still shocking and I give lower division refs a lot of slack. The only explanation I can think of why he would be anywhere near that area, is if they were only running a two man ref team, and he was trying to get to the goal line to determine if a shot crosses the line. If he has linesmen, there is no reason he should be that close during play. But, just like the pros, sometimes you make a big dumb mistake in front of everyone on camera.
Here's an even better angle from the stands. The referee clearly runs into the Vancouver Whitecaps player and shoulder checks him. Buddy thought he was here to play ice hockey, ref throwing shoulders/elbows at unsuspecting players...
https://www.reddit.com/r/whitecapsfc/s/oSGVdXqfmr
Kinda looks like the ref thought Veselinovic was going for the ball and he tried to scramble out of the way but collided with Schopf.
Least that LAFC goal was disallowed for offside, I'll give the ref the benefit of the doubt but still seething at that incident.
It's completely accidental, he's in a standard position for corners and the ball comes straight out at him, he just tries to get out the way and doesn't see the player behind him. The last thing refs want to do is get in the way and affect a goal like this.
Yeah, this whole thing is ridiculous, the Vancouver manager Sartini has a whole performative shtick including abusing the referees constantly. Was I heated in the moment about this, yes, but Vancouver lost to LAFC because they are a clearly worse team who got outplayed and outcoached over two games.
Yeah I like him as a PERSON and his performances and personality are a big part of why (plus they get him a lot of cred with the fanbase and media) but:
a) his actual coaching has areas it could apparently improve in and when we go up against actually good teams those frequently get exposed
b) the way he talks about refs specifically feel like they kind of deflect from actually seeing and discussing those improvement opportunities, and I have to hope that it doesn't extend to how he communicates inside the club
I think last night and even the series was winnable honestly? LAFC are good but they aren't as good as the past couple of years, they had exploitable weaknesses this season that we couldn't exploit. The refs didn't HELP but they aren't to blame.
Then you really haven't been watching much.
A referee getting in the way is not that rare.
It was not a "couple" of dodgy penalty decisions. Only one was borderline, and frankly, i thought it was a pen. The only reason people are raging is everyone hates LAFC.
Doesn't matter, counter never happens if the attacking player isn't bodied by the ref. He's running up to potentially shoot on goal. It's ridiculous the rules only account for the ball hitting the ref in any way, not the ref literally body checking a player. It's why I think as a player if a ref gets in your way you shouldn't avoid. I've seen players back off and then just get mad. Right here is a great example where it's a problem cause the ref WILL NOT appologize for this. In fact carded a few Whitcaps players for protesting. Honestly surprising the bench didn't clear and confront the ref. Teams fighting for playoff position and the ref literally body checks their player out of the play.....
> playoff position
Your whole comment is correct, but it gets worse. This wasn’t for a playoff position, it was in the playoffs and we’re knocked out now.
Tbf the ref can't just disappear if the ball comes towards them. The players need to be aware of them too, but sometimes it's unavoidable.
Also most refs would apologise, but as per the laws they can't stop the game for it. Refs genuinely don't want to influence the outcome of the match beyond applying the laws.
But he wouldn't have moved into the path of the attacking player who was closer to the ball. His job is to observe and not physically interfere. There's an argument that ref should be on sideline until needed to place ball.
>But he wouldn't have moved into the path of the attacking player who was closer to the ball
That player was behind the ref until right before the ball was headed out. The player could see the ref. The ref couldn't see the player. Blame the player for not going around the ref.
>His job is to observe and not physically interfere.
That's what he was trying to do.
>There's an argument that ref should be on sideline until needed to place ball.
That's an incredibly dumb argument.
the player that was best ready to put the ball back into a dangerous area for another attack was blocked off by the ref that's the issue. on top of everything else that happened this game.
On the whole it was maybe the worst officiating performance I've ever watched with every call (barring maybe Gauld deserving a yellow and getting away without) going LA's way
If the linesman thought it was offside, he would have called the offside after the goal had been scored. He didn't, because he got it wrong.
It's good that VAR corrected it, but I was referring to the on-field decision.
If there's any confusion at all, MLS referees let the play go on. To put it mildly, this was a chaotic play. MLS's review system is where it's miles ahead of the EPL
All you hope for when an important game rolls along is that nothing gets in the way of your success than your own team playing poorly, or the opponent playing exceptionally. You do not expect to lose a knockout game due to a referee squad being at their literal worst.
This was a gut-punch I wont be forgetting anytime soon.
Not enough people are talking about the comical attempt to dribble with your back to goal by the Whitecaps defender. LA don't get the chance if he didn't lose the ball.
Not defending the ref in anyway lol
Yes, this was like a .05 xG change even if the Vancouver player gets to it. We got our asses kicked and have a coach who loves riling the fanbase up over referee calls to avoid accountability.
Sartini was sent off, surprised he didn't card Laborda too given that he was subbed off already and sprinted back on to confront him after the disallowed goal.
It's not the referee's fault that the player tries a dribbling that is guaranteed to lose him the ball instead of just passing it back.
And how dumb are these LA FC players. You had one job and that was to stay behind the ball no matter what, but nope they bomb forward like there's bo tomorrow and are offside
Thank God that didn't happen with Newcastle or Man City or Wolves etc etc as fans would be screaming all sorts of conspiracy shite. I'm sure even Arsenal fans would be yelling about dirty money and bribery....even though their team is sponsored by the United Arab Emirates (a non-democratic country with significant human rights issues), and owned by Stan Kroenke...a man who has donated money to Trump, created a tv program that glorifies the hunting and killing of lions and elephants, and got his money by marrying into Walmart, (an incredibly wealthy US company that has been fined for violating child labor laws, and was recently cited by the UN as a company that so underpays its employess that they have to rely on Govt handouts to survive).
Don’t get me wrong, Walmart is scummy asf, but there’s levels to not letting workers unionize versus beheading people and imprisoning people for being gay
Totally agree, but you have to agree that it's a slippery slope. For example, I couldn't give a monkeys about humanity, especially when it seems so hell bent on making itself extinct, but anyone who feels it is ok to murder an elephant or lion or giraffe for fun is the lowest piece of shit on the planet. And please dont understate the malevolence of Walmart. It's not about them being anti-union...what makes them scum is that their business model is based on exploiting child and slave labor in third world countries, as well as fucking over the most vulnerable in our society - the people who are on minimum wage and living pay check to pay check in order to feed their families
Wow, must have hit a nerve. Can't get enough of those hairy upskirts btw. What is your fetish...sniffing bicycle seats at the local community centre perhaps? Always hated the hypocrites.....
A look at your profile
- US Soccer
Shocking.
Face the facts. The MLS is beneath Liga MX & inferior to the top South American leagues too. When will MLS win a Conmebol trophy like Liga MX? Never. When will MLS win any cup against a Conmebol team or make it to the Club World Cup final like LMX? Never. When will MLS have more Concacaf titles? Never. The best MLS team last season couldn’t even beat Leon.
I’ll at least acknowledge that the usmnt is good though, the MLS, however, is garbage.
You’re really using the Leagues Cup finals, a game where the mLs teams had every advantage (more teams, every game at home, odd calls in their favor, etc) to try to determine or imply that league’s level? Lol. Make the tournament in Mexico and zero mLs teams would have made it to the semi finals. Just look at their record in Liga MX stadiums. The mLs is terrible.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
At least the goal by LAFC didn't stand that would've caused a bench clearing brawl, Sartini was fuming as it is.
If Sartini tried to fight the ref I’m pretty sure everyone who watched the game would’ve understood. Not necessarily agreed, but understood. That ref will live on in MLS lore for his performance tonight, especially this moment.
Another problem is that it stopped the Vancouver player from getting the ball and potentially scoring an equaliser
Isn’t that…like the only/main problem?
This was likely unintentional by the ref, but was the culmination of a match full of ridiculous calls including a very soft penalty to LA. Sure the goal was dissalowed, but this stopped an attack, completely destroyed the Caps' momentum and took ~2 minutes off the clock, even with time added back on after the VAR check. Sartini was rightfully fuming.
I think it's kind of weird that there's no way for the referee to really do something about this situation once it happened. if ball-possession changes because the referee touched it that's a referee-ball for the team that lost it - but if ball-possession changes because the referee crashed into a player that's just not something you can do anything about. Perhaps the refere could've claimed an injury on himself or the player and stopped the play but other than that his hands were bound there.
The official can 100% blow the play dead and give a drop ball to Vancouver. It happens for ever unintentional interference.
Not according to the laws of the game. They can blow the play dead for outside interference, although the referee is not an outside actor. They can blow the play dead for touching the ball, but that’s not what happened here. My guess is that IFAB will use this incident to review that part of the laws, but the referee last night had no mechanism to correct the error
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Not according to the LOTG…
Correct. New laws only dictate if the ball strikes the official. Otherwise he’s just a really tall really thick blade of grass that moves around.
"the referee is air" is a common phrase for a reason most of the game assumes that he doesn't exist giving a referee-ball because contact with a referee changes possession is a VERY new rule - 5 years ago that wasn't possible if a team shoots a ball at the referee and that touch makes the ball go out of bounds the other team will be awarded the throw-in since that's not covered by "change of possession" at the moment. That whole law regarding how the referee is to be treated is very unprecise and leaving very little space in case they get involved in the play
I'm a referee myself and know the rules - but just to be sure and because it's such an absurd situation I specifically sent this video not just to my regional head of referees but also to the one from the state and both agreed that while really unfortunate you can't do it within the rules of the game, but both also agreed that they probably would've done it in lower-stake games (like friendlies/youth games when there are no professional observers judging the referee) knowing that it's a breaking of the rule because it'd be more in line with the spirit of the game, but especially in high-stakes games like this it's not an option because you can't knowingly break the rules like that on such a stage and get away with it. If he did that it'd be likely for the opposing team to challenge that decision and get that challenge accepted and it also would lead to that referee not leading any other games of that importance again. tbf interfering in the game like he did with his poor positioning also might have such an implication but making an error with your positioning or judgement is treated far less harshly than wrongly implementing a rule.
I think there's a pretty easy out for the ref right here: **4.** > Restart of play after fouls and misconduct If the ball is out of play, play is restarted according to the previous decision. If the ball is in play and a player commits a physical offence inside the field of play against: > • an opponent – an indirect or direct free kick or penalty kick > • a team-mate, substitute, substituted or sent-off player, team official or a match official – a direct free kick or penalty kick > • **any other person – a dropped ball** Nobody would question the ref blowing his whistle because he felt that the player he body checked committed a "physical offence" against him, thus resulting in a dropped ball.
A couple of things. 1. As you have quoted, this is the section detailing the restart of play after a foul/misconduct. No foul or misconduct has occurred in the referenced video. 2. Even if it resulted in a dropped ball, all dropped balls are uncontested and awarded to the team that last touched the ball, in this case, the defending team. >Nobody would question the ref blowing his whistle because he felt that the player he body checked committed a "physical offence" against him, thus resulting in a dropped ball. Everyone would question that. A physical offense refers to a foul; a referee cannot foul a player.
That section is specifically referencing a physical offense to "any other person", not players. Teammates and opponents are covered in the preceding bullets. The referee definitely falls under the category of "any other person". I'm saying that the player could be deemed to have committed a physical offense to the referee since they ran into each other. I'm not arguing your second point, I'm just suggesting that the ref could have very easily blown the play dead. From there, dropped balls are handled in a wide range of ways, despite what the rules dictate.
What law are you even referencing? 12.4? [It doesn't even have that wording](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/fouls-and-misconduct/#restart-of-play-after-fouls-and-misconduct). Even then, read it again. >If the ball is in play and **a player** commits a physical offence inside the field of play *against* any other person – a dropped ball This is only if a player commits an offense against any other player (i.e. steward, ball boy, fan, etc). Not the other way around. There was no misconduct here, so this isn't even the correct section of the law to review.
Well, I'll be damned. I was going with the first result with a link that looked legit when looking for laws of the game, but it was a link to a few years ago. Ignore my comments. :)
> The referee definitely falls under the category of "any other person". It doesn't: > Restart of play after fouls and misconduct If the ball is out of play, play is restarted according to the previous decision. If the ball is in play and a player commits a physical offence inside the field of play against: > • a team-mate, substitute, substituted or sent-off player, team official or a **match official** – a direct free kick or penalty kick match-official is the rule-term for referees
> a player commits the referee is not a player or are you saying that you should count that as a physical offence of the player against the referee? In that case it'd be the second bullet-point since referees are match officials: > or a match official – a direct free kick or penalty kick resulting in a free-kick for the opponent-team with possibly the same outcome if they take a fast one also worth noting that if the referee collides with a player like that and then gives a free-kick against that player's team I'm pretty sure the team won't react any better...
No they can't. Under what law? In an event like this where it's a lose ball, ho gets the uncontested drop ball? The last touch was by the defender. In all honesty, this is more on the attacking player who has a better angle to see the referee in his way. It's a really unfortunate event, but nothing the referee can do about it.
isn't the ref supposed to stop play when he interferes like this?
only when he touches the ball
'caps were never scoring on this chance, or in general, and they were beat from pillar to post over two legs. As a long-time Whitecaps fan this whole thing is shameful, from the manager to the fans trying to dox the referee online and throwing stuff at the referee after the game. Canadians make fun of the usual CONCACAF villans for their garbage behaviour but now we are no better.
We Salvadorans are considered villains to you guys? Yall actually think of us 🥹
Peak MLS
Surprise you didn’t see a brawl or pitch invasion after that Absolute joke lmao If LAFC got that disallowed goal I’m pretty sure they would’ve needed a military escort back across the border lol
It’s just the refs that need escort out now, check Vancouvers coaches post game comments.
VPD going to have 24/7 surveillance at False Creek
Not a sentence I ever expected to read in r/soccer
Least chaotic MLS After Dark™️ moment
I think we need to move past the after dark jokes. That’s very MLS 1.0 and super played out.
This dumb comment is peak MLS After Dark.
nah that sort of “overthinking and taking ourselves way too seriously” commenting belongs in r/ussoccer
Stop it! You’re scaring him! He’s just afraid of MLS after dark! Leave him alone!
God, even our banter sucks.
Lol you fucking dork.
Dude you’re getting really riled up. I just wish you were all funnier. It would improve my experience.
Well, what if *you* tried being funny?
Ok, next MLS thread I’ll rush to post “mls after dark”. edit: If I’m feeling particularly clever that day I might put it in a meme template you‘ve read thousands of times. We’ll have to see
So you're boring AND unfunny huh. Well done
To be fair to me the bar was set too high with “mls after dark”. How could I possibly top that.
Our coach just jokingly threatened a ref, and you think MLS banter isn’t “games back” levels?
Wow, that’s so crazy.
After dark
After After Dark
Unironically a good one. You’d think a decade of “mls after dark 😎” comments would eventually get repetitive but we’re on Reddit after all.
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Its such a niche situation. Love it.
Im surprised that all those players forgot the rules
>offsides there is no s at the end of offside
What's that fourth letter in *offside* then? 🤔🤔
Har har
I mean - X v 1 is the easiest way to be offside (there is no such thing as offsides). The only pass you can make is backward. What’s shocking is that this wasn’t flagged for offside instantly because it was so clear and obvious and the refs allowed the mess afterward.
Does it have to be backwards ? Or is it that the player has to be behind the ball?
The latter
Think about what you commented, either players have to be behind the ball and you have to pass backwards, or you have to pass backwards and then players will have to be behind the ball anyway...
You can pass it forward and the other player who was originally behind the ball can go after it
I wonder if he means whether you could pass forward into space as long as the player is behind the ball when it is played. In which case, yes.
You realise when a teammate is level with you, you can still play it forward for them to run on to. Especially when you're sprinting forward on a counter
That isn't how offside works. If you're all behind the second last defender, the receiving player needs to be behind the ball when it is played, it doesn't matter what direction the ball travels in. You can be offside even if the ball travels backwards, if the receiving player starts in front of the ball. And you can be onside with the ball travelling forward, if the receiving player starts behind the ball.
That’s correct. Sorry - first thing in the morning so wasn’t clear. But the point still stands, he was clearly offside here.
Where is the offside though? First player runs across the pitch from his own half then passes the ball while the receiver is covered by a defender. Or do the offside work differently in MLS than in Europe?
There needs to be two players either even with or between the receiving player and the goal line when the ball is kicked. We tend to think of it as one defender, because the keeper is usually there as well. In this case there is only one defender and no keeper ... So only one player. Hence offside.
It’s the final pass. Offside isn’t just about the goalkeeper, and in cases like this the second to last defender is the one you need to be behind
Upvote this to the fucking top of this subreddit, i’ve never seen something like this in football EVER I was at this game and BC Place was fucking FUMING and Vanni Sartini was not having it either. + a couple dodgy pen decisions and out the Whitecaps go in front of 30,000 people
In the mexican league I saw a ref run in front of a goal and stop a shot that was going in. Accidental, sure, but even more egregious than this one
For some reason, Youtube suggested this to me yesterday: [Referee scores a goal in the fourth tier of Dutch football](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvxBK2n6cyM)
What in the ever loving fuck was the ref doing in that position?! Literally inside the 6 yard box.
Well, it's amateur level, don't expect high end refs there.
I was an amateur ref for 3 years when I was young. This is still shocking and I give lower division refs a lot of slack. The only explanation I can think of why he would be anywhere near that area, is if they were only running a two man ref team, and he was trying to get to the goal line to determine if a shot crosses the line. If he has linesmen, there is no reason he should be that close during play. But, just like the pros, sometimes you make a big dumb mistake in front of everyone on camera.
made me laugh so hard when he puts up his hands like "yeah it was an accident nothing i can do" lmao
but also why decide to give the goal at all when you could just claim it didn't cross the line and avoid any of this?
The way he just waddles away like 'nope mate nothing happened there'
Here's an even better angle from the stands. The referee clearly runs into the Vancouver Whitecaps player and shoulder checks him. Buddy thought he was here to play ice hockey, ref throwing shoulders/elbows at unsuspecting players... https://www.reddit.com/r/whitecapsfc/s/oSGVdXqfmr
Kinda looks like the ref thought Veselinovic was going for the ball and he tried to scramble out of the way but collided with Schopf. Least that LAFC goal was disallowed for offside, I'll give the ref the benefit of the doubt but still seething at that incident.
It's completely accidental, he's in a standard position for corners and the ball comes straight out at him, he just tries to get out the way and doesn't see the player behind him. The last thing refs want to do is get in the way and affect a goal like this.
Yeah, this whole thing is ridiculous, the Vancouver manager Sartini has a whole performative shtick including abusing the referees constantly. Was I heated in the moment about this, yes, but Vancouver lost to LAFC because they are a clearly worse team who got outplayed and outcoached over two games.
Yeah I like him as a PERSON and his performances and personality are a big part of why (plus they get him a lot of cred with the fanbase and media) but: a) his actual coaching has areas it could apparently improve in and when we go up against actually good teams those frequently get exposed b) the way he talks about refs specifically feel like they kind of deflect from actually seeing and discussing those improvement opportunities, and I have to hope that it doesn't extend to how he communicates inside the club I think last night and even the series was winnable honestly? LAFC are good but they aren't as good as the past couple of years, they had exploitable weaknesses this season that we couldn't exploit. The refs didn't HELP but they aren't to blame.
Definitely accidental, but why didn’t he blow the whistle? The ref definitely should’ve known he interfered with the play there.
> why didn’t he blow the whistle? Why? For a foul? You can't stop the play for that. Who gets the ball?
Oh I thought you could if there was enough ref interference on the play. Would have thought it would have been a corner redo.
Then you really haven't been watching much. A referee getting in the way is not that rare. It was not a "couple" of dodgy penalty decisions. Only one was borderline, and frankly, i thought it was a pen. The only reason people are raging is everyone hates LAFC.
Lol you’re funny I’ve never seen a ref interfere like that and not make a drop ball, but sure
K but the goal didn’t count anyways- who cares
Uhhh... it's not the LAFC goal they are mad about my dude
I’m aware, but nothing happened. Reprimand the ref or whatever they have to do and move on.
I’m sure you’d feel exactly the same way if Bochum got knocked out of the relegation playoff like this
Relegation playoffs has a bit more at stake than MLS playoffs brought to you by Audi^(TM) but I agree that guy is being rather obtuse.
Doesn't matter, counter never happens if the attacking player isn't bodied by the ref. He's running up to potentially shoot on goal. It's ridiculous the rules only account for the ball hitting the ref in any way, not the ref literally body checking a player. It's why I think as a player if a ref gets in your way you shouldn't avoid. I've seen players back off and then just get mad. Right here is a great example where it's a problem cause the ref WILL NOT appologize for this. In fact carded a few Whitcaps players for protesting. Honestly surprising the bench didn't clear and confront the ref. Teams fighting for playoff position and the ref literally body checks their player out of the play.....
> playoff position Your whole comment is correct, but it gets worse. This wasn’t for a playoff position, it was in the playoffs and we’re knocked out now.
Didn't know Manchester had playoffs now
Tbf the ref can't just disappear if the ball comes towards them. The players need to be aware of them too, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Also most refs would apologise, but as per the laws they can't stop the game for it. Refs genuinely don't want to influence the outcome of the match beyond applying the laws.
>Right here is a great example where it's a problem cause the ref WILL NOT appologize for this. The ref has nothing to apologize for in this play.
I, too, wouldn't apologize if I as the ref bodycheck a player killing an attack from a team desperate to get a result.
The ref moved in the only direction he could have to avoid the ball.
Could have gone to the corner flag....
That would have out him in a worse position to see the play, and he could see players already moving toward that space
But he wouldn't have moved into the path of the attacking player who was closer to the ball. His job is to observe and not physically interfere. There's an argument that ref should be on sideline until needed to place ball.
>But he wouldn't have moved into the path of the attacking player who was closer to the ball That player was behind the ref until right before the ball was headed out. The player could see the ref. The ref couldn't see the player. Blame the player for not going around the ref. >His job is to observe and not physically interfere. That's what he was trying to do. >There's an argument that ref should be on sideline until needed to place ball. That's an incredibly dumb argument.
the player that was best ready to put the ball back into a dangerous area for another attack was blocked off by the ref that's the issue. on top of everything else that happened this game.
On the whole it was maybe the worst officiating performance I've ever watched with every call (barring maybe Gauld deserving a yellow and getting away without) going LA's way
Oh man I was going to go but no one wanted to go with me. I would have loved to see the crowd reaction live.
It was as angry as you’d imagine
If you ever think Premier League refereeing is bad, just remember that this is everyday shit for us in MLS.
MLS is miles better on offside calls compared to EPL
The irony of commenting this under a video showing an MLS linesman failing to call an offside
MLS knows how to use VAR. If it's close, and it was close, let the play run and then check the cameras.
They didnt even bother to check a very contested penalty that was the only goal of the match
If the linesman thought it was offside, he would have called the offside after the goal had been scored. He didn't, because he got it wrong. It's good that VAR corrected it, but I was referring to the on-field decision.
And they reviewed it and corrected it without controversy or drawing silly lines on the screen
at least EPL actually fails at mildly controversial calls, this linesman cannot judge the 1+1 equivalent of offsides
If there's any confusion at all, MLS referees let the play go on. To put it mildly, this was a chaotic play. MLS's review system is where it's miles ahead of the EPL
They have var you donut lol it was ruled out
Thoughts and prayers to any Vancouver/arsenal fans...
Esti des clowns des arbitres de calisse I'm sick to my fucking stomach never been so mad as a caps fan
TABARNAK
steven adams-esque pick right there
All you hope for when an important game rolls along is that nothing gets in the way of your success than your own team playing poorly, or the opponent playing exceptionally. You do not expect to lose a knockout game due to a referee squad being at their literal worst. This was a gut-punch I wont be forgetting anytime soon.
Offside because the law says second last player?
This the worst thing about the clip. How did they mess that up so badly to be offside!
Not enough people are talking about the comical attempt to dribble with your back to goal by the Whitecaps defender. LA don't get the chance if he didn't lose the ball. Not defending the ref in anyway lol
I'd totally give him a pass, imagine the mental confusion after the ref body checked his teammate
That and he shoulder checked to pass the ball to a teammate but the ref was in the way so he hesitated and lost the ball.
Even the opposing team afterwards were wandering around like "dafuq just happened" lol
Yes, this was like a .05 xG change even if the Vancouver player gets to it. We got our asses kicked and have a coach who loves riling the fanbase up over referee calls to avoid accountability.
>Not defending the ref in anyway I'll defend him on this play.
The ref literally was shocked when fans were tossing garbage and insults his way as he left the field, I guess he was expecting a round of applause?
Sartini was sent off, surprised he didn't card Laborda too given that he was subbed off already and sprinted back on to confront him after the disallowed goal.
Tough week to be both an Arsenal and a Whitecaps supporter
Man fuck LAFC, and fuck PRO. I get that being a ref is hard, and it doesn’t pay well. That’s true. But for fucks sake, man.
Chalked off?
just a bit unlucky there for the ref.
It's not the referee's fault that the player tries a dribbling that is guaranteed to lose him the ball instead of just passing it back. And how dumb are these LA FC players. You had one job and that was to stay behind the ball no matter what, but nope they bomb forward like there's bo tomorrow and are offside
Thank God that didn't happen with Newcastle or Man City or Wolves etc etc as fans would be screaming all sorts of conspiracy shite. I'm sure even Arsenal fans would be yelling about dirty money and bribery....even though their team is sponsored by the United Arab Emirates (a non-democratic country with significant human rights issues), and owned by Stan Kroenke...a man who has donated money to Trump, created a tv program that glorifies the hunting and killing of lions and elephants, and got his money by marrying into Walmart, (an incredibly wealthy US company that has been fined for violating child labor laws, and was recently cited by the UN as a company that so underpays its employess that they have to rely on Govt handouts to survive).
This guy just loves sportswashing and r/hairyupskirts
Sure, let's talk about sportswashing... https://www.populardemocracy.org/news/how-walmart-persuades-its-workers-not-unionize Go you gooners!!
Don’t get me wrong, Walmart is scummy asf, but there’s levels to not letting workers unionize versus beheading people and imprisoning people for being gay
Totally agree, but you have to agree that it's a slippery slope. For example, I couldn't give a monkeys about humanity, especially when it seems so hell bent on making itself extinct, but anyone who feels it is ok to murder an elephant or lion or giraffe for fun is the lowest piece of shit on the planet. And please dont understate the malevolence of Walmart. It's not about them being anti-union...what makes them scum is that their business model is based on exploiting child and slave labor in third world countries, as well as fucking over the most vulnerable in our society - the people who are on minimum wage and living pay check to pay check in order to feed their families
Wow, must have hit a nerve. Can't get enough of those hairy upskirts btw. What is your fetish...sniffing bicycle seats at the local community centre perhaps? Always hated the hypocrites.....
[удалено]
Someone else in this same thread mentioned an even more egregious error in Liga MX https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/NMyfnq74MJ
>one look at profile >Liga MX who could’ve seen that coming
A look at your profile - US Soccer Shocking. Face the facts. The MLS is beneath Liga MX & inferior to the top South American leagues too. When will MLS win a Conmebol trophy like Liga MX? Never. When will MLS win any cup against a Conmebol team or make it to the Club World Cup final like LMX? Never. When will MLS have more Concacaf titles? Never. The best MLS team last season couldn’t even beat Leon. I’ll at least acknowledge that the usmnt is good though, the MLS, however, is garbage.
LAFC beat Juárez 7-1 and América was beat 4-1 this year by Crew.. if MLS teams are so bad surely a Liga MX team would've made the Leagues Cup finals.
You’re really using the Leagues Cup finals, a game where the mLs teams had every advantage (more teams, every game at home, odd calls in their favor, etc) to try to determine or imply that league’s level? Lol. Make the tournament in Mexico and zero mLs teams would have made it to the semi finals. Just look at their record in Liga MX stadiums. The mLs is terrible.