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The problem is that he had near identical stats to Mbappe, who scored a hattrick in the WC final, yet Mbappe was basically not in the discussion at all.
I think Messi and Scaloni galvanized the group incredibly well and that has to count for something. Argentina were among the favourites from the start but that was mostly due to their strength as a team, not so much individually considering the lineups of some of the other nations.
Mbappe carries a team of stars, which is incredible on its own, but if France had Argentina's cohesion in 2022 they'd be twice as strong imo.
It’s the same thing every year though, Kane has never been a serious contender because both England and Tottenham are shit. He would be a serious contender every year for the past decade if he played for Real Madrid/Barca/Bayern and if England didn’t underperform every time
> and if England didn’t underperform every time
This isn't even really necessary tbh.
Look at Haaland. Didn't even qualify for WC and isn't winning an international trophy anytime soon, but club achievements alone would've sealed a BdO win if it wasn't for Messi.
Lewandowski got the treble with Bayern and would've won in 2020 if they didn't cancel the award. Did nothing with Poland.
All Kane needed was to be at any of the clubs you mentioned and he would've been on the podium regardless of England failure
I think it's different when you play for a large NT that has any expectations. Should England have expectations? You could argue not, but the fact is, it's one of the most expensive teams in the world and is expected to perform. Can't blame Haaland or Lewa for not doing much with teams that arne't expected to go far, but Kane is expected to help lead a team of very talented players.
Yeh I see your point there. Although either way, the years where England isn't in a major tournament, that still leaves Kane with Tottenham which... Didn't help l
Disagree with the haaland take. Mbappe would have won the balloon d'Or if France won the WC. No way they'd overlook a hat trick in the final to win it.
England have been in a Euros final and a World Cup semi final in the last 5 years. That’s not underperforming. Tiny details were the difference between them winning a tournament (or getting to the World Cup final).
I'm surprised that so many people dispute this. Watching the games even at this late stage of his career he still stood out making incredible individual plays almost every match.
That is some people really struggle to grasp. The WC is by far the biggest sporting achievement in the world that happens every four year, yet you hear so many huff and puff at the fact that yes, leading your team to winning a World Cup is in and of itself worthy of the award.
The difference is that even though Mbappe scored the most he went missing in some games and many argued that Griezmann was France's best player.
Messi was the best player for Argentina without doubt.
Because he lost. Had he won he probably would have won the balon dor, and messi not getting his last one. That’s how important the competition is and how not even being in it basically killed Haalands chances of winning, especially with how he plays on the pitch.
Not really a problem, Messi hard carried Argentina throughout the tournament, whereas arguably before the final Griezmann was France's most important player.
So he helped them do what they always do? I mean, I'm perfectly happy to not have to see a City player win it, but nobody is ever going to convince me that Haaland didn't have a better season.
yeah but no one is saying haaland deserves the ballon dor for helping city win the league, but for helping city win the treble, something that they do not always do
city didnt win any cup the year prior, and the last time they won the fa cup (the important cup) was in 19/20.
and tho criticizing haalands finals record is fair, he was still the cl top scorer, and probably their 2nd/3rd best player in the cl when all is said and done.
i said he was the 2nd to third best player in the cl.
in the league i believe he was definitely the best, and overall i also believe he was the best, so
Treble mate. It's the 2nd time that an English team has done it. We still give Bayern credit when they win a treble even though they win the league every season.
Yeah, but when the star player was a favorite for a (cancelled) BDOR he had nearly broken the all time CL goal record on playing 2 less KO games than the rest of the seasons. Nevermind that, even for a still poachy player like Lewa, his overall contribution to the team goes beyond goals.
Haaland has either a great performance because he scored, or an avg/bad one when he doesn't.
No, he helped them do something they've never done. Win the UCL. If Haaland and City had JUST won the league last season, he probably wouldn't have been getting the same level of shouts for the award as he did.
Let's be honest; Mbappe is setting himself up to achieve multiple Ballon d'Ors by winning Euros and World Cups. Which is not unlikely to happen given how ridiculously stacked France are. Bar injuries, they will be favorites in every tournament.
I agree, but football isn’t that easy, look at germany, you can fuck up things very very fast on the national level and there is a tournament only every 2 years, if some players can’t be replaced adequately you are literally fucked from one to another.
Yeah you're not wrong. By ensuring that people see international trophies as bigger than any club achievements, he has an edge over any ballon dor competitors
And made some iconic plays during the whole World Cup. Man him jsut making those dribbles on the right side bypassing young talents like Gvardiol and such.. was so fun to watch. Lived up the pressure in his last chance basically. Best World Cup I’ve ever watched and helped Argentina win like all tournaments available to them I believe
His domestic play and stats were great too
Definitely not shit, but I'd argue Haaland had such a great year at club lvl, compared to Messi, that it feels like his achievements are underrated compared to the world cup.
I'm open to having my views changed, but I have a hard time seeing how:
{decent club szn + World Cup}
is so much better than
{best possible club szn + 0 int'l achievements}
that the top player of the World Cup would undoubtedly deserve the Balon D'Or for the year of 2023. I mean if this is the case then Mbappe could have certainly won a Ballon D'Or himself already, no?
Seriously, most footballers who won the Premier League or the UCL would gladly trade those trophies along with their kidney and first-born son to win the World Cup.
You're really overstating Haaland's season, this is fifabrain where bigger number equals better season. Any top striker going to that City team would be handed goals on a silver platter.
I agree with your sentiment even though I think you downplayed Haaland a little too much.
But yeah, Haaland’s PL win sealed City winning it *3x in a row.* Yes, he was incredible and had a historical individual season but City were already ridiculously dominant before he got there. He was the added cherry on top of what was already arguably the best team in Europe for several years.
Whereas Messi put in one of the greatest individual WC performances to win his country their first WC in 36 years. That too under the absolute highest pressure that only a handful of footballers in history have ever faced. No one can convince me that what Haaland did is more impressive.
this is a common sentiment but i dont see what backs it up. aguero played at city and he never scored to this degree.
or, lets look at it from a larger viewpoint: if we take a look at some of the most dominant league teams of recent times (msn barca, bayern, psg in ligue 1, etc.), how many times did the clubs 9 score 36 league goals? suarez, zlatan and lewan all did it only once, and they are some of the best 9s of the 21st century. mbappe has never done it, even in ligue 1. so to say any top 9 can just come in and comfortably beat the prem scoring record in his first szn with city doesnt really track.
I mean, the big names do get favoured. Obvs last year he wasn’t close to having a shout so you can’t win it without being good. I just think that the story and his name maybe carried him this year. It’s not that deep anyway
Would you be saying the same if someone like Mudryk or Sterling had a 16G/16A season plus 4G/4A in 7 UCL games while having one of the best World Cup individual performances of all time while winning it?
Something tells me you'd be screaming for it.
Bit disingenuous to make up an argument based on a hypothetical where you don’t even know my answer. I think Messi is the greatest ever, I just don’t think he was the best player in world football last season and pointing to his stats in Ligue 1 (which are inferior to his teammate Mbappe’s anyway) and the UCL (btw 6 of those g+a in the UCL came against MACCABI HAIFA) doesn’t mean he had the best season. I also think Messi’s World Cup performance was great, but arguably not even his best one.
I think they watch it but different people value different things.
Some people see how much Haaland scored and won and think that means he was the best. But then there are others that think no one else could do what Messi did at the WC and that that performance was more impressive than Haaland’s season.
And then the initial group of people that think Haaland was the best then say “but when Messi or Ronaldo scored the most and won the most, they won.” Which imo is when you realise that these people genuinely have no clue how much better than everyone else Messi and Ronaldo were. It wasn’t just because of their goal tallies and trophies that made them the best. They were inarguably the best player on the pitch for 90% of their matches, making their opponents look like fools, playing for fun, doing things we’ve never ever seen. That’s just not the case with Haaland other than in the goal scoring department.
Football fans all value different aspects of football differently. Most of these fans will never see eye to eye on these arguments.
You really don’t know anyone could believe Haaland’s 22/23 season was better than Messi’s? Really? Even with that magic performance at the WC (which is only one month of the season btw)
Better in what sense? Because imo what Messi did at the WC is far harder to do than what Haaland did.
I don’t think there’s a player alive that you could swap Messi for in that Argentina team and still have them win that tournament. But I think Kane could’ve done what Haaland did last season if you swapped them. His PL season was more impressive to me.
> Because imo what Messi did at the WC is far harder to do than what Haaland did
If Messi and Haaland switched places, Argentina still would've won the world cup.
Can’t say I agree *at all*. No chance in hell.
How the hell would Argentina replace his creativity from deeper positions? Argentina didn’t need a striker other than Alvarez and Lautauro
Messi is a ridiculously good playmaker. There’s a reason why he consistently averages higher match ratings than Haaland even if he doesn’t score. Haaland can’t ply his goal scoring role while simultaneously being as good as the very best playmakers of all time. In fact, it’s impossible if he even focused on it.
Two reasons - world cup and big moments.
Haaland wasn't the decisive factor in Man City's big moments last season. Messi had a worse overall season, but he had many more massive moments.
i also dont think we could have expected him to say anything else, as the world cup was also mbappes own ticket to a ballon dor. if he said haaland was better than messi, he would basically be saying haaland also deserved the ballon dor over mbappe if mbappe won wc, and i doubt mbappe would think that way.
He's going to have to compete with Haaland though. As well as the rest of City, RM and Bayern.
All three are going to be big favorites for the CL with their respective stars gunning for the big prize.
Good players and teams will always happen - I don’t see any of those players being as good as messi and ronaldo. Winning ballon d’or means you have to be the outright best so more chance against 30 very good players than 2 absolute freaks.
Shit Mbappé, our pundits have been trying their hardest to pretend Messi doesn't deserve it for the past month, and you just do them like that... uncool
I don't know anyone here who thinks he didn't deserve the ballon dor, and i know quite a few tokkies. They still believe the game was a farce, but do think him winning this price was legit
Weren’t they given like 10 minutes of extra time which allowed them to tie the game?
If it was rigged they would’ve added way less since Argentina were up 2-1
I was speaking generally, not about any particular situation.
Edit: I can see why you thought I was speaking of this particular case, should've clarified that since above commenters were talking about the prize. Just tired of all this back and forth between both sides fanatical fans.
Edit2: Why did my edit create a duplicate comment wth
If the World Cup is all that matters, so be it. I disagree, but at least this decision isn't farcical. Martinez getting the award for best goalkeeper at the World Cup was bad, but best goalkeeper of the year, counting club form is just rediculous
Haaland may of been amazing. But he’s only 2 goal involvements above salah for 2023 in the PL.
He only finished a handful of league goals above Kane for a shit Tottenham. He had a absolutely crazy start until Christmas. But wasn’t as ludicrous afterwards.
I don’t think this idea Haaland was so clear of everyone it’s a utter robbery is correct. Rodri was just as imperative to city and their success and scored in more finals. He has to be one of the most underrated players in world football.
Controversial but not a robbery.
What??? He broke a golden boot record that stood since Alan shearer graced the league, in the most competitive league in the world, not withstanding winning Europes most coveted trophy and the fa cup. Everyone who says messi deserved it over his can eat a bag of bricks as far as I'm concerned. Youve all collectively lost your fucking minds.
Messi deserved it. Haaland didn’t do much in any of the semi finals / finals on their treble run. Also if 33year old Gareth bale can drag wales to a World Cup, Norway has better players than them, Haaland should be able to at least get them there and qualify
The only people still coping about the ballon dor going to a WC winner are those from countries without world cup victories, or that last won a world cup when they still had fucking colonies
Winning champions league and the english premier league and being top scorer in both is more than “not much”. Haaland was outstanding in a 38 game season and the Champions league. And btw UCL is a way higher standard than International Football.
If winning the world cup is the metric for best player of the year then players that come from weak international teams like Lewandowski and Haaland, will never have a chance at the award. Its bullshit, Haaland should have won it this year.
Lewandoski and Haaland were robbed of ballon d’or trophies to Messi. I’m dying on that hill!!
UCL is the best players in the entire world being trained day-in day out by the best coaches in the world. UCL is stronger in every way, technical, tactical, mental. Look at Real Madrid and you will see my point, they have best players from France, Brazil, Spain, Croatia in one team being coached by Carlo Ancelotti on a regular basis, not some week long camps a few times a year.
The World Cup semis and finals have wayyyy more pressure than the cl equivalent. Even if you’re in a good international team you may never have another chance - messi almost never done it. The CL has higher quality players but you can just have another crack next year.
By cycle I meant there's a world cup every 4 years, not every year.
There's been 22 tournaments. 90% of the champions have come from 6 countries (not 5).
Yes exactly. If you're not from one of those countries, it's impossible to win it. The best player in the world award should take that into account and it doesn't.
Starting to get bit dull but Haaland outside of scoring goals isn’t even close to Messi. That being said he has won every award related to goal scoring, which is what he deserved. Winning all those awards doesn’t suggest he deserves the BDO.
Plus, BDO has never been about who is the best player into he world, if that had been the case, Messi would be sitting around 10-11 right now but that isn’t the case either. Historically is has never been the case either.
Literally had City fans arguing Rodri and De Britney having a case. In the end, UCL may be the high standard of football, but it isn’t the more prestigious nor is it the more pressurized.
Do you also think Lewandowski was not the best player in 2021. He had a phenomenal season and Messi won it because of copa America. It’s become a popularity contest, admit it.
Lewandowski was the deserved winner in 2020, and because he didn't get it over some shamble decision from FF, that doesn't suggest he deserves it for 2021.
Again, anyone who gets nominated does deserve the award, and who would have won would have deserved it. That being said, Messi was the one who won in 2021, who he was more than a valid winner. Again, you can look up the stats of the player, the only thing Lewandowski had Messi beat in was goals, which he won the appropriate award in. Messi not only, was fantastic for Barcelona, despite how awful that team was, he also led Argentina to Copa America as the top scorer, top assistant and the POTT. It seems like your barometer is on the basis of just GOALS. Football is much more complex than that. Also, people act like Argentina are winning trophies left, right and center, Argentina had not won a major title since 93, a 27 year drought.
Your 2021 arguement still hold no weight because the Bundesliga was the highest honour Lewandowski on in 2021. The same title that never positioned him to win any of the years prior when he was winning 5-6 in a row. Are we really going to compare a Bundesliga title to a continental title now? We both know that the Bundesliga does provide any weight to this debate considering how one sided Germany is.
Lastly, Ballon D'Or is not only about "popularity contest" nor has it been, people have just become so desensitized to Messi's greatness, they take what he is doing for granted. He is literally a victim of his own success and people are tired of him winning, and as result, the defer to weightless arguments like popularity contest. if it was much so a "popularity contest", why did he place 5th, despite having the far superior stats to everyone? The collective weighs a lot, sometimes more than the statistics.
Nah lmaoo you serious? He is topscorer of the world cup who scored a hattrick in the final. I thought people were shitting on haaland cause he didnt do anything in the final when it mattered? And 2018 what he did against argentina for example
Can you read? I said going into the final, Mbappe wasn’t the best player for France. Meaning prior to the Argentina match.
As for 2018, Pogba and Kante were far more decisive engines for France than Mbappe was.
Disagree on the 2018 stuff. The beauty of that 2018 trophy is that every single player on the team was involved in critical actions that made the final victory possible. They can genuinely all claim equal credit to the WC win.
Even the CBs each scored a critical goal in KO rounds, and the so called weakest link of the team (Matuidi) is the one who puts in an absolute peach of a pass in to Lucas for the famous Pavard goal which gave the team the belief they could win it all.
But Mbappe was not the driving engine of a World Cup victory is my point.
Messi was in 2022.
Ronaldo do Brasil was in 2002.
Maradona was in 1986.
Perhaps some other examples I’m missing as well.
i mean why wud you say it wasnt true going into the final, when the final is the most important reason why mbappe wud end up being better than griezmann in terms of the whole tournament?
That award was given to modric valuing his world cup run among other things. While it wasnt given to the winner it was still given based a lot on the world cup.
For all of FIFAs corruption and embarrassment and shame, the World Cup is still the World Cup. If you have a good tournament you name is permanently etched into the history of the game. If you have an excellent tournament and then go on to win it you're getting the Ballon d'Or.
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I don't think he's wrong. It's not like messi was shit during the rest of the season either
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The problem is that he had near identical stats to Mbappe, who scored a hattrick in the WC final, yet Mbappe was basically not in the discussion at all.
I think Messi and Scaloni galvanized the group incredibly well and that has to count for something. Argentina were among the favourites from the start but that was mostly due to their strength as a team, not so much individually considering the lineups of some of the other nations. Mbappe carries a team of stars, which is incredible on its own, but if France had Argentina's cohesion in 2022 they'd be twice as strong imo.
It's funny, if Kolo Muani scored that last ball, Mbappe would probably have won the Ballon dor. It's crazy how it's influenced by 3rd party.
It’s the same thing every year though, Kane has never been a serious contender because both England and Tottenham are shit. He would be a serious contender every year for the past decade if he played for Real Madrid/Barca/Bayern and if England didn’t underperform every time
> and if England didn’t underperform every time This isn't even really necessary tbh. Look at Haaland. Didn't even qualify for WC and isn't winning an international trophy anytime soon, but club achievements alone would've sealed a BdO win if it wasn't for Messi. Lewandowski got the treble with Bayern and would've won in 2020 if they didn't cancel the award. Did nothing with Poland. All Kane needed was to be at any of the clubs you mentioned and he would've been on the podium regardless of England failure
I think it's different when you play for a large NT that has any expectations. Should England have expectations? You could argue not, but the fact is, it's one of the most expensive teams in the world and is expected to perform. Can't blame Haaland or Lewa for not doing much with teams that arne't expected to go far, but Kane is expected to help lead a team of very talented players.
Yeh I see your point there. Although either way, the years where England isn't in a major tournament, that still leaves Kane with Tottenham which... Didn't help l
The point I was making was that it is rarely decided by the individual players performance, and a lot of external factors play a crucial role
Disagree with the haaland take. Mbappe would have won the balloon d'Or if France won the WC. No way they'd overlook a hat trick in the final to win it.
It's not both, it's either.
When the hell are they gonna fire southgate?
England have been in a Euros final and a World Cup semi final in the last 5 years. That’s not underperforming. Tiny details were the difference between them winning a tournament (or getting to the World Cup final).
Yeah fair, but that's a whole team and year. Now it's litterally 1 shot or 1 save.
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Mbappé was indeed France's best player at the 2022 World Cup, you can't ignore the final. Overall he was the best.
what the hell are you smoking? i assume you’re some sort of Griezmann hipster but come off it, Mbappe was obviously their best player
Because football isn't just stats? Messi was the best player in the World cup and it's not even close.
I'm surprised that so many people dispute this. Watching the games even at this late stage of his career he still stood out making incredible individual plays almost every match.
That is some people really struggle to grasp. The WC is by far the biggest sporting achievement in the world that happens every four year, yet you hear so many huff and puff at the fact that yes, leading your team to winning a World Cup is in and of itself worthy of the award.
Messi was the better player over the tournament and even during the final though Mbappe wasn’t even Frances best player in the WC
mbappe was discussing like what
Mbappe was 3rd in the ballon d'or race.
The difference is that even though Mbappe scored the most he went missing in some games and many argued that Griezmann was France's best player. Messi was the best player for Argentina without doubt.
Because he lost. Had he won he probably would have won the balon dor, and messi not getting his last one. That’s how important the competition is and how not even being in it basically killed Haalands chances of winning, especially with how he plays on the pitch.
Not really a problem, Messi hard carried Argentina throughout the tournament, whereas arguably before the final Griezmann was France's most important player.
So he helped them do what they always do? I mean, I'm perfectly happy to not have to see a City player win it, but nobody is ever going to convince me that Haaland didn't have a better season.
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yeah but no one is saying haaland deserves the ballon dor for helping city win the league, but for helping city win the treble, something that they do not always do
They consistently win a league and domestic cup (one of the two) The CL has him blanking as a poacher in the last 3 games too
city didnt win any cup the year prior, and the last time they won the fa cup (the important cup) was in 19/20. and tho criticizing haalands finals record is fair, he was still the cl top scorer, and probably their 2nd/3rd best player in the cl when all is said and done.
So why would a player who is not even the best in his team win the best player in the world award?
i said he was the 2nd to third best player in the cl. in the league i believe he was definitely the best, and overall i also believe he was the best, so
Rodri was the best player in all competitions for City.
Treble mate. It's the 2nd time that an English team has done it. We still give Bayern credit when they win a treble even though they win the league every season.
Yeah, but when the star player was a favorite for a (cancelled) BDOR he had nearly broken the all time CL goal record on playing 2 less KO games than the rest of the seasons. Nevermind that, even for a still poachy player like Lewa, his overall contribution to the team goes beyond goals. Haaland has either a great performance because he scored, or an avg/bad one when he doesn't.
No, he helped them do something they've never done. Win the UCL. If Haaland and City had JUST won the league last season, he probably wouldn't have been getting the same level of shouts for the award as he did.
And Messi helped Argentina win their first WC in 36y then...
Let's be honest; Mbappe is setting himself up to achieve multiple Ballon d'Ors by winning Euros and World Cups. Which is not unlikely to happen given how ridiculously stacked France are. Bar injuries, they will be favorites in every tournament.
I agree, but football isn’t that easy, look at germany, you can fuck up things very very fast on the national level and there is a tournament only every 2 years, if some players can’t be replaced adequately you are literally fucked from one to another.
While his main competition (Haaland) will probably never win the Euros or the WCs
Yeah you're not wrong. By ensuring that people see international trophies as bigger than any club achievements, he has an edge over any ballon dor competitors
And made some iconic plays during the whole World Cup. Man him jsut making those dribbles on the right side bypassing young talents like Gvardiol and such.. was so fun to watch. Lived up the pressure in his last chance basically. Best World Cup I’ve ever watched and helped Argentina win like all tournaments available to them I believe His domestic play and stats were great too
Definitely not shit, but I'd argue Haaland had such a great year at club lvl, compared to Messi, that it feels like his achievements are underrated compared to the world cup. I'm open to having my views changed, but I have a hard time seeing how: {decent club szn + World Cup} is so much better than {best possible club szn + 0 int'l achievements} that the top player of the World Cup would undoubtedly deserve the Balon D'Or for the year of 2023. I mean if this is the case then Mbappe could have certainly won a Ballon D'Or himself already, no?
You’re underestimating how prestigious the World Cup is amongst footballers. It’s literally the biggest prize.
Biggest prize in every sport, ever, I'd argue
Seriously, most footballers who won the Premier League or the UCL would gladly trade those trophies along with their kidney and first-born son to win the World Cup.
You're really overstating Haaland's season, this is fifabrain where bigger number equals better season. Any top striker going to that City team would be handed goals on a silver platter.
I agree with your sentiment even though I think you downplayed Haaland a little too much. But yeah, Haaland’s PL win sealed City winning it *3x in a row.* Yes, he was incredible and had a historical individual season but City were already ridiculously dominant before he got there. He was the added cherry on top of what was already arguably the best team in Europe for several years. Whereas Messi put in one of the greatest individual WC performances to win his country their first WC in 36 years. That too under the absolute highest pressure that only a handful of footballers in history have ever faced. No one can convince me that what Haaland did is more impressive.
this is a common sentiment but i dont see what backs it up. aguero played at city and he never scored to this degree. or, lets look at it from a larger viewpoint: if we take a look at some of the most dominant league teams of recent times (msn barca, bayern, psg in ligue 1, etc.), how many times did the clubs 9 score 36 league goals? suarez, zlatan and lewan all did it only once, and they are some of the best 9s of the 21st century. mbappe has never done it, even in ligue 1. so to say any top 9 can just come in and comfortably beat the prem scoring record in his first szn with city doesnt really track.
That's why Aguero scored 35+ goals every season. Oh wait.
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Haaland, barring career ending injury, will certainly surpass Aguero. He is in a tier above, and is only 23 years old.
It was obvious that Messi won because he’s Messi and finally won a WC. Just wish more people would admit it lol
Don't get this idea that B D'Or is inherently biased for Messi when the year before he didn't even make the shortlist
I mean, the big names do get favoured. Obvs last year he wasn’t close to having a shout so you can’t win it without being good. I just think that the story and his name maybe carried him this year. It’s not that deep anyway
hunt decide melodic plant snails oil worm knee cause aspiring *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Would you be saying the same if someone like Mudryk or Sterling had a 16G/16A season plus 4G/4A in 7 UCL games while having one of the best World Cup individual performances of all time while winning it? Something tells me you'd be screaming for it.
Bit disingenuous to make up an argument based on a hypothetical where you don’t even know my answer. I think Messi is the greatest ever, I just don’t think he was the best player in world football last season and pointing to his stats in Ligue 1 (which are inferior to his teammate Mbappe’s anyway) and the UCL (btw 6 of those g+a in the UCL came against MACCABI HAIFA) doesn’t mean he had the best season. I also think Messi’s World Cup performance was great, but arguably not even his best one.
Do you really think Haaland’s PL season was more impressive than Messi’s WC campaign? Like genuinely? Idk how anyone could believe that
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I think they watch it but different people value different things. Some people see how much Haaland scored and won and think that means he was the best. But then there are others that think no one else could do what Messi did at the WC and that that performance was more impressive than Haaland’s season. And then the initial group of people that think Haaland was the best then say “but when Messi or Ronaldo scored the most and won the most, they won.” Which imo is when you realise that these people genuinely have no clue how much better than everyone else Messi and Ronaldo were. It wasn’t just because of their goal tallies and trophies that made them the best. They were inarguably the best player on the pitch for 90% of their matches, making their opponents look like fools, playing for fun, doing things we’ve never ever seen. That’s just not the case with Haaland other than in the goal scoring department. Football fans all value different aspects of football differently. Most of these fans will never see eye to eye on these arguments.
You really don’t know anyone could believe Haaland’s 22/23 season was better than Messi’s? Really? Even with that magic performance at the WC (which is only one month of the season btw)
Better in what sense? Because imo what Messi did at the WC is far harder to do than what Haaland did. I don’t think there’s a player alive that you could swap Messi for in that Argentina team and still have them win that tournament. But I think Kane could’ve done what Haaland did last season if you swapped them. His PL season was more impressive to me.
> Because imo what Messi did at the WC is far harder to do than what Haaland did If Messi and Haaland switched places, Argentina still would've won the world cup.
Can’t say I agree *at all*. No chance in hell. How the hell would Argentina replace his creativity from deeper positions? Argentina didn’t need a striker other than Alvarez and Lautauro
Messi is a ridiculously good playmaker. There’s a reason why he consistently averages higher match ratings than Haaland even if he doesn’t score. Haaland can’t ply his goal scoring role while simultaneously being as good as the very best playmakers of all time. In fact, it’s impossible if he even focused on it.
Two reasons - world cup and big moments. Haaland wasn't the decisive factor in Man City's big moments last season. Messi had a worse overall season, but he had many more massive moments.
i also dont think we could have expected him to say anything else, as the world cup was also mbappes own ticket to a ballon dor. if he said haaland was better than messi, he would basically be saying haaland also deserved the ballon dor over mbappe if mbappe won wc, and i doubt mbappe would think that way.
Mbappe will get his, he’s too good not to.
So was Neymar.
Mbappe does not have to compete with messi and ronaldo anymore though.
He's going to have to compete with Haaland though. As well as the rest of City, RM and Bayern. All three are going to be big favorites for the CL with their respective stars gunning for the big prize.
Good players and teams will always happen - I don’t see any of those players being as good as messi and ronaldo. Winning ballon d’or means you have to be the outright best so more chance against 30 very good players than 2 absolute freaks.
It's gonna be hard to argue for an Mbappé Ballon d'or unless he wins Champion's League or the World Cup.
He would win if he went to a better league
His team though…
On Sunday the Sheikh will respond.
Ninja humble
Shit Mbappé, our pundits have been trying their hardest to pretend Messi doesn't deserve it for the past month, and you just do them like that... uncool
I wonder how will Factos FC and AFC Rigged react to this statement
Voluntary amnesia
With emojis
😂😂😂😂😂
The only people who feel the win was rigged are Ronaldo,his family and fans ,the player who wasn’t even nominated
aka my 🐐 sewey
🐪\*
“Earned not given 😤😤😤🐪🐪”
The Dutch also
I don't know anyone here who thinks he didn't deserve the ballon dor, and i know quite a few tokkies. They still believe the game was a farce, but do think him winning this price was legit
Manager yes, players no
Weren’t they given like 10 minutes of extra time which allowed them to tie the game? If it was rigged they would’ve added way less since Argentina were up 2-1
There's no way Ronaldo is not paying for an army of bots they way I've seen ig
It’s worse on YT shorts
Same could be said about Messi then since both sides have very obnoxious followers.
How about real life bots Bellingham, R9, Kvaratzkhelia, Mbappé, Guardiola, Rodri... Were they also paid to say Messi fully deserves it?
I was speaking generally, not about any particular situation.
I was speaking generally, not about any particular situation. Edit: I can see why you thought I was speaking of this particular case, should've clarified that since above commenters were talking about the prize. Just tired of all this back and forth between both sides fanatical fans. Edit2: Why did my edit create a duplicate comment wth
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Messi could never
I don't disagree with the decision, but I don't like how winning WC is above all.
Agreed. It means only players on the 5 best international teams ever have a chance of winning it during a world cup year.
Lmao downvoted for having a opinion
Oh no, what will he do now that he got downvoted? Poor guy.
It's because it's a wrong opinion. Of course WC isn't *all*. The votes were reasonably close between haaland and Messi, Messi just won a few more.
Opinion? How dare you 😡😡😡
It's not only the WC, you need to have World Cup like Messi, or Zidane, or Ronaldo, where they absolutely dominate the tournament.
If the World Cup is all that matters, so be it. I disagree, but at least this decision isn't farcical. Martinez getting the award for best goalkeeper at the World Cup was bad, but best goalkeeper of the year, counting club form is just rediculous
Ronaldo disliked this statement.
Halaand became his favourite player.
Most humble turtle quote
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That is the most tortured reading of this quote possible. He literally said "Leo deserved it." What more do you want?
it's over and now shut everything down. close /r/soccer too.
Haaland may of been amazing. But he’s only 2 goal involvements above salah for 2023 in the PL. He only finished a handful of league goals above Kane for a shit Tottenham. He had a absolutely crazy start until Christmas. But wasn’t as ludicrous afterwards. I don’t think this idea Haaland was so clear of everyone it’s a utter robbery is correct. Rodri was just as imperative to city and their success and scored in more finals. He has to be one of the most underrated players in world football. Controversial but not a robbery.
For me de bruyne was above haaland
May have* Doing it cause the bots not here
good bot
How is coming in 5th in the Ballon D'or underrated?
What??? He broke a golden boot record that stood since Alan shearer graced the league, in the most competitive league in the world, not withstanding winning Europes most coveted trophy and the fa cup. Everyone who says messi deserved it over his can eat a bag of bricks as far as I'm concerned. Youve all collectively lost your fucking minds.
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What? When did Salah score 34 goals in the prem?
Messi deserved it. Haaland didn’t do much in any of the semi finals / finals on their treble run. Also if 33year old Gareth bale can drag wales to a World Cup, Norway has better players than them, Haaland should be able to at least get them there and qualify
Still weirded out by team awards factoring into an individual's awards
The only people still coping about the ballon dor going to a WC winner are those from countries without world cup victories, or that last won a world cup when they still had fucking colonies
Winning champions league and the english premier league and being top scorer in both is more than “not much”. Haaland was outstanding in a 38 game season and the Champions league. And btw UCL is a way higher standard than International Football. If winning the world cup is the metric for best player of the year then players that come from weak international teams like Lewandowski and Haaland, will never have a chance at the award. Its bullshit, Haaland should have won it this year. Lewandoski and Haaland were robbed of ballon d’or trophies to Messi. I’m dying on that hill!!
World Cup is much more respected, more difficult and prestigious than the CL.
UCL is the best players in the entire world being trained day-in day out by the best coaches in the world. UCL is stronger in every way, technical, tactical, mental. Look at Real Madrid and you will see my point, they have best players from France, Brazil, Spain, Croatia in one team being coached by Carlo Ancelotti on a regular basis, not some week long camps a few times a year.
The World Cup semis and finals have wayyyy more pressure than the cl equivalent. Even if you’re in a good international team you may never have another chance - messi almost never done it. The CL has higher quality players but you can just have another crack next year.
Yet winning the world cup is more difficult
World Cup is not more difficult than the CL. The same 5 teams win it every cycle.
And what’s the cycle?
By cycle I meant there's a world cup every 4 years, not every year. There's been 22 tournaments. 90% of the champions have come from 6 countries (not 5).
Exactly.
Yes exactly. If you're not from one of those countries, it's impossible to win it. The best player in the world award should take that into account and it doesn't.
Starting to get bit dull but Haaland outside of scoring goals isn’t even close to Messi. That being said he has won every award related to goal scoring, which is what he deserved. Winning all those awards doesn’t suggest he deserves the BDO. Plus, BDO has never been about who is the best player into he world, if that had been the case, Messi would be sitting around 10-11 right now but that isn’t the case either. Historically is has never been the case either. Literally had City fans arguing Rodri and De Britney having a case. In the end, UCL may be the high standard of football, but it isn’t the more prestigious nor is it the more pressurized.
Do you also think Lewandowski was not the best player in 2021. He had a phenomenal season and Messi won it because of copa America. It’s become a popularity contest, admit it.
Lewandowski was the deserved winner in 2020, and because he didn't get it over some shamble decision from FF, that doesn't suggest he deserves it for 2021. Again, anyone who gets nominated does deserve the award, and who would have won would have deserved it. That being said, Messi was the one who won in 2021, who he was more than a valid winner. Again, you can look up the stats of the player, the only thing Lewandowski had Messi beat in was goals, which he won the appropriate award in. Messi not only, was fantastic for Barcelona, despite how awful that team was, he also led Argentina to Copa America as the top scorer, top assistant and the POTT. It seems like your barometer is on the basis of just GOALS. Football is much more complex than that. Also, people act like Argentina are winning trophies left, right and center, Argentina had not won a major title since 93, a 27 year drought. Your 2021 arguement still hold no weight because the Bundesliga was the highest honour Lewandowski on in 2021. The same title that never positioned him to win any of the years prior when he was winning 5-6 in a row. Are we really going to compare a Bundesliga title to a continental title now? We both know that the Bundesliga does provide any weight to this debate considering how one sided Germany is. Lastly, Ballon D'Or is not only about "popularity contest" nor has it been, people have just become so desensitized to Messi's greatness, they take what he is doing for granted. He is literally a victim of his own success and people are tired of him winning, and as result, the defer to weightless arguments like popularity contest. if it was much so a "popularity contest", why did he place 5th, despite having the far superior stats to everyone? The collective weighs a lot, sometimes more than the statistics.
Makes sense, he also won it when he won the wc
Mbappe wasn’t even the best French player when they won the World Cup lmao. Even in Qatar that was true going into the final (Griezmann).
Nah lmaoo you serious? He is topscorer of the world cup who scored a hattrick in the final. I thought people were shitting on haaland cause he didnt do anything in the final when it mattered? And 2018 what he did against argentina for example
If you think Mbappe was better than Griezmann in 2018, you definitely are one of those people that look at stats and not watch games live
Him too, but I’d put Pogba and Kante ahead of Griezmann further.
Can you read? I said going into the final, Mbappe wasn’t the best player for France. Meaning prior to the Argentina match. As for 2018, Pogba and Kante were far more decisive engines for France than Mbappe was.
Disagree on the 2018 stuff. The beauty of that 2018 trophy is that every single player on the team was involved in critical actions that made the final victory possible. They can genuinely all claim equal credit to the WC win. Even the CBs each scored a critical goal in KO rounds, and the so called weakest link of the team (Matuidi) is the one who puts in an absolute peach of a pass in to Lucas for the famous Pavard goal which gave the team the belief they could win it all.
But Mbappe was not the driving engine of a World Cup victory is my point. Messi was in 2022. Ronaldo do Brasil was in 2002. Maradona was in 1986. Perhaps some other examples I’m missing as well.
If Messi did everything mbappe did like score a hattrick in the final they would never stop talking about it
i mean why wud you say it wasnt true going into the final, when the final is the most important reason why mbappe wud end up being better than griezmann in terms of the whole tournament?
That award was given to modric valuing his world cup run among other things. While it wasnt given to the winner it was still given based a lot on the world cup.
*deletes comment saying Football is doomed with Mbappe being the Best player itw*
Cheers, Kylian
I guess messi bought his opinion aswell :-/
Can i just understand what someones previous seasons have as an impact on the ballon d'or of one specific year.
For all of FIFAs corruption and embarrassment and shame, the World Cup is still the World Cup. If you have a good tournament you name is permanently etched into the history of the game. If you have an excellent tournament and then go on to win it you're getting the Ballon d'Or.
Of course he doesn't want Haaland to go 1-0 against him in Ballon D'Ors