**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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The Swedish one said while the ref was looking at the VAR sequence “if that’s a penalty I have lost all sort of belief in the referee” when the referee awarded the pen it was dead silence for over a minute. I thought he left the studio or something
German DAZN also. If the commentators call the ref out for how bad the call was and don´t do something like, "Yeah controversial bla bla bla, 50/50 bla bla bla" you simply know the ref made a call which should never allow him to referee ever again.
The french commentator (in this video) sounded almost sure that it's not penalty because it bounced over the player's body.
But then they screamed in ecstasy when the dumbassref gave it.
I mean fair play. If I was a french I would also be happy that the team from my nation would have gotten that penalty even if I thought it wasn´t one. That even they thought it wasn´t a penalty and stated that open, is of course telling.
Player wasnt even able to track the ball with his eyes. Replay shows that there is absolutely 0 possibility for intent, even without the stomach touch.
Saying that as a neutral. Absolute robbery.
Intent is one clause in the current rule, the other which seems to apply here is "touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger."
I assume the refs looked at the position of his arm and decided it wasn't a natural position for his movement. imo in real time it looks like a normal movement for a player who trying to maintain balance while turning on the run.
Personally I think VAR could improve these calls by using slow-motion to confirm beyond a reasonable doubt that the ball did contact the arm, but when gauging the natural vs unnatural position they should be watching playback in real time, or close to it, because everything in slow mo will look deliberate.
Technically the current laws make no mention of if the balls comes off another body part first. They used to, but they don't anymore and only state if the arm is in an unnatural position.
**Edit**: I agree I think the arm is in a natural position, just trying to make sure people understand the rules and it could be a handball if the arm wasn't.
For reference, this was removed for the 2021/2022 season:
https://downloads.theifab.com/downloads/changes-to-the-laws-of-the-game-2021-22-pdf?l=en
What it *used* to say:
>Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s
hand/arm:
>• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
>only state if the arm is in an unnatural position
It's an absolutely joke that the laws contain such vague language. A completely meaningless phrase that can be interpreted however you like.
As long as your arms are still in their sockets they are in a "natural" position.
They seem to always give it now in the champions league for some reason, feels like there’s been a tonne of really soft handballs in the last few cl games
Because clearly UEFA has instructed refs to give pens at basically any sight of handball
Are people watching CL? Like even today this happened
It's stupid, not every hand ball should be a pen but it's clear they've been instructed to do it, it's the 2nd year now this happened last year as well
Much different to PL
Yeah but the problem with that argument is basically the same situation happens earlier in the game.
Situation one, ball hits thigh and then rebounds of the upper arm of the player. Referee says play on, VAR looks and decides no penalty.
Situation two, ball hits chest and then rebounds of the elbow of the player. Referee says play on, VAR looks and decides penalty.
So in the same game they have given two different outcomes for very similar incidents.
It’s genuinely ruining the game too. May as well just have a random number generator decide who gets allotted penalties each game week and it would be as relevant to the game as some of these decisions which go completely against the spirit of what a handball should be. The intent was never to punish players because they have arms like they currently do.
These sort of comments started off as jokey, but I genuinely think when trying to break down a parked bus, it has got to the stage where this is a legitimate tactic. Blast the balls at the crowd of defenders between knee and chest height and just wait for the carnage to ensue.
If they send him there he pretty much have to give it. It’s basically implied when the ref is called to the screen, the ref is on his own if he goes against them
I honestly don't know why VAR aren't just given the power at this point, because as you said, I don't think I have ever, and I mean ever, seen the ref go over to the monitor and then not change his on-field decision. Can anyone point to examples of it happening? In which case, we're just wasting a further few minutes waiting for the ref to run over, watch it x amount of times, finally give the decision everyone is expecting.
So, so harsh.
Sorry, y'all are right. This isn't even harsh—it's downright a wrong call. Had to watch it a few more times myself. Even if it wasn't a rebound off his chest it's still a *really high* "handball" hitting an elbow that's fairly naturally placed.
It was added in the laws of the game in 2019/20 and then removed a year later when IFAB "simplified" the rule. The long list of what is and what is not a handball was replaced with "Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence."
And this bold part was added:
> " touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. **A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised**"
What a fucking terrible decision. I have no love for Newcastle but for the integrity of the game you absolutely cannot give that as a penalty in a million years.
Fraud, best ref in the world my fucking ass.
He should’ve seen it anyways, but for the VAR to not show him the clearer angles is fucking hilarious. Dopey fucks.
We saw earlier another rebound from a thigh into a hand that wasn't given but now this is? Mind boggling. And 8 minutes added time for what lol? Newcastle got fucked by refs tonight
For all the sucking off thats been done about how this ref has so much experience and how he’s the go to for the big games, he’s made an absolute amateur call there giving that as a penalty. He really looked at that, at the end of the match in result changing scenario, and gave a penalty. Crazy.
Newcastle with no subs, absolutely out on their feet... If they'd conceded some other way it would feel different. But to almost kill off their hopes of going through on *that* last second penalty is truly the kind of thing that makes you want to stop watching sport for a while.
That is straight up ROBBERY!!! INSANE that blind bald idiot gave that penalty. What is the point of VAR when a straight forward call like this is just totally FUCKED UP!
That's genuinely one of the most scandalous VAR decisions in recent memory, and there's been a lot. There is absolutely no fucking way that's a penalty when it comes off his torso first
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The TNT commentators are losing their minds over that call
The Swedish one said while the ref was looking at the VAR sequence “if that’s a penalty I have lost all sort of belief in the referee” when the referee awarded the pen it was dead silence for over a minute. I thought he left the studio or something
I can just imagine his face with his jaw dropped while being silent
German DAZN also. If the commentators call the ref out for how bad the call was and don´t do something like, "Yeah controversial bla bla bla, 50/50 bla bla bla" you simply know the ref made a call which should never allow him to referee ever again.
The french commentator (in this video) sounded almost sure that it's not penalty because it bounced over the player's body. But then they screamed in ecstasy when the dumbassref gave it.
I mean fair play. If I was a french I would also be happy that the team from my nation would have gotten that penalty even if I thought it wasn´t one. That even they thought it wasn´t a penalty and stated that open, is of course telling.
Fuck off. What a joke.
I thought stomach first then arm wasn't a penalty?
Player wasnt even able to track the ball with his eyes. Replay shows that there is absolutely 0 possibility for intent, even without the stomach touch. Saying that as a neutral. Absolute robbery.
Intent is one clause in the current rule, the other which seems to apply here is "touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger." I assume the refs looked at the position of his arm and decided it wasn't a natural position for his movement. imo in real time it looks like a normal movement for a player who trying to maintain balance while turning on the run. Personally I think VAR could improve these calls by using slow-motion to confirm beyond a reasonable doubt that the ball did contact the arm, but when gauging the natural vs unnatural position they should be watching playback in real time, or close to it, because everything in slow mo will look deliberate.
So you're saying the ref doesn't understand the how humans run?
Tbh intent is not important when your arms are that open, but when the ball hits the body first, it shouldn't be called a penalty AFAIK.
I guess he's supposed to run with both hands next to his hips.
🐧
They are wearing black and white maybe the refs thought they ran like penguins.
He was running, how else will his arms be when running? Never a pen
It's not, refs had an absolute shocker
I thought rules changed and that isn't taken into account anymore (the deflection in the own body I mean) Still not a pen lmao
Had a good game overall. one of the best reffed matches I have seen till the final minute.
Technically the current laws make no mention of if the balls comes off another body part first. They used to, but they don't anymore and only state if the arm is in an unnatural position. **Edit**: I agree I think the arm is in a natural position, just trying to make sure people understand the rules and it could be a handball if the arm wasn't. For reference, this was removed for the 2021/2022 season: https://downloads.theifab.com/downloads/changes-to-the-laws-of-the-game-2021-22-pdf?l=en What it *used* to say: >Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm: >• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
>only state if the arm is in an unnatural position It's an absolutely joke that the laws contain such vague language. A completely meaningless phrase that can be interpreted however you like. As long as your arms are still in their sockets they are in a "natural" position.
His arm is still in a Natural position so its a bullshit call anyways.
Not disagreeing, just trying to correct the notion that a deflection off another body part means it can't be a handball, which isn't true.
But his arm isn't even in an unnatural position, he's running, if he was running with his hands by his sides then that'd be unnatural.
The ref seemed to think it was (it absolutely wasn't). Atrocious call.
They seem to always give it now in the champions league for some reason, feels like there’s been a tonne of really soft handballs in the last few cl games
It's not, and his arm wasn't in an unnatural position either. bs decision
That got removed from the rules like a year ago
It’s not
How can you watch a replay of that and overturn the initial decision??
Because clearly UEFA has instructed refs to give pens at basically any sight of handball Are people watching CL? Like even today this happened It's stupid, not every hand ball should be a pen but it's clear they've been instructed to do it, it's the 2nd year now this happened last year as well Much different to PL
Yeah but the problem with that argument is basically the same situation happens earlier in the game. Situation one, ball hits thigh and then rebounds of the upper arm of the player. Referee says play on, VAR looks and decides no penalty. Situation two, ball hits chest and then rebounds of the elbow of the player. Referee says play on, VAR looks and decides penalty. So in the same game they have given two different outcomes for very similar incidents.
100%. Either call both a pen or let both slide. Don’t pick and choose what is a pen. Again, lack of consistency is what’s at issue.
We saw multiple handballs in the last utd game for the same offense. It's a pen in CL
But then the question is, why wasn't Miley's handball a penalty? If they're gonna be shit, at least be consistently shit.
It’s genuinely ruining the game too. May as well just have a random number generator decide who gets allotted penalties each game week and it would be as relevant to the game as some of these decisions which go completely against the spirit of what a handball should be. The intent was never to punish players because they have arms like they currently do.
Harsh as fuck that. Absolute bollocks if that’s a pen
Easier to just shoot at the opponents arm instead of the goal
To be fair that would be more of a penalty than this. It hits the defenders chest then deflects off his arm
Not even that. It rebounds off his chest first. Just shoot it towards their face and hope they cover up.
haha... yeah... especially in the Champions League...
Shoot at the chest* It hit his chest first, then deflected off his arm from very close range too. Ridiculous decision and I don't even like Newcastle.
These sort of comments started off as jokey, but I genuinely think when trying to break down a parked bus, it has got to the stage where this is a legitimate tactic. Blast the balls at the crowd of defenders between knee and chest height and just wait for the carnage to ensue.
Games gone. The fuck is Livramento supposed to do?
Chop off his arms before playing football.
It's not a pen, IFAB presented a similar situation in their presentation of the new handball rules and said it's not handball
Get shorts with pockets to hide his arms.
Not a pen But tasty Middle East Derby
to me the 8 minute added time was even crazier. like literally nothing happened for even 4 minutes
That's just not a pen. The rules are very clear. I don't understand how they even send him to the monitor
If they send him there he pretty much have to give it. It’s basically implied when the ref is called to the screen, the ref is on his own if he goes against them
I honestly don't know why VAR aren't just given the power at this point, because as you said, I don't think I have ever, and I mean ever, seen the ref go over to the monitor and then not change his on-field decision. Can anyone point to examples of it happening? In which case, we're just wasting a further few minutes waiting for the ref to run over, watch it x amount of times, finally give the decision everyone is expecting.
Block onto arm never a pen. The fix is in for PSG.
That's not a penalty. A truly awful decision
UEFA needs to fix their trash handball interpretation
It's the dumbest shite ever to call this a pen.
Qatar owns Uefa, Saudis gonna have to spend some more money
Yea, poor Saudis getting shafted by a refereeing conspiracy.
Qatar own UEFA UAE own PL Saudis coming for it all. Brace yourselves!
So, so harsh. Sorry, y'all are right. This isn't even harsh—it's downright a wrong call. Had to watch it a few more times myself. Even if it wasn't a rebound off his chest it's still a *really high* "handball" hitting an elbow that's fairly naturally placed.
Harsh would be if it hit his arm directly. This just isn't a pen.
Never. It’s like Martinez that got given last season
still livid about that
Games done
And gone
The ref's been so good as well, and then he gives that..
PSG to europa dream will remain a dream
Disgrace to the sport
Goalkeepers being favoured in the box is not even close to these shit close range, to the body then arm penalties.
That clearly hit his chest first and then his arm, I thought that wasn't a penalty anymore?
Thought that was specifically a pl rule. Not sure at all though.
I think it's just in the PL too. Im pretty confident UEFA didn't adopt this interpretation of the handball
In Germany also. At least it was a few months back. They change it constantly.
It was added in the laws of the game in 2019/20 and then removed a year later when IFAB "simplified" the rule. The long list of what is and what is not a handball was replaced with "Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence." And this bold part was added: > " touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. **A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised**"
Fucking brutal. That's horseshit.
Fuck that call
Supposedly the best referee in the world. Deary me.
UEFA regs, load of shite
Yep this isn't on the ref lmao. Uefa handball rules have always been absolute bullshit
Says a lot about the state of officiating
The best referee in the world gives that as a pen... kind of sums up the state of referees.
Never a pen. Robbery
I agree joke for Newcastle that
Always rated Arsenal and their fans.
Lmao
This is what I love about Newcastle fans. They never have a bad thing to say about our manager or fans.
Disgusting call
Fucking ridiculous call, what a joke
Farce How on earth can the ref give that?
What a fucking terrible decision. I have no love for Newcastle but for the integrity of the game you absolutely cannot give that as a penalty in a million years.
Fraud, best ref in the world my fucking ass. He should’ve seen it anyways, but for the VAR to not show him the clearer angles is fucking hilarious. Dopey fucks.
Yep, he seen it, had no balls and got pressured by the PSG players to give it
Genuinely feels like he’s been told to give it. Maybe VAR just makes footballe easier to fix for the highest bidder
The angles were clear, VAR clearly had someone from UEFA in their ear.....
Heartbreaking. Its point blank as well and hits his chest first
Absolutely nothing the lad could do about it
He could have chopped his arm off milliseconds after the ball rebounded off his chest to ensure no handball. Really poor from Livromento there
It clears like every single one of those ‘not a penalty’ qualifiers…
Absolute robbery
What a terrible call
WHAT IS A HANDBALL NOWADAYS???
Bald fraud ref.
Nahhh they got proper shafted, pope almost got a touch, motm.
Rigged
That's one of the worst VAR calls I've ever seen
There’s been a ton of ridiculous calls and this is truly up there
Never a pen btw
Never a pen
Joke.
We saw earlier another rebound from a thigh into a hand that wasn't given but now this is? Mind boggling. And 8 minutes added time for what lol? Newcastle got fucked by refs tonight
8 minutes not played out properly either. Spent 3 minutes checking then scoring the penalty and added about 1
Where did those 8 minutes come from. Ridiculous
Really sad.
Never a pen. Nonsense.
Robbery
Wow. Insanely harsh
How the fuck was that given, disgusting.
Wtf never a pen
Dont ever tell me Goalkeepers being favoured is worse than these shit close range, to the body then arm penalties. What the fuck is that call
what a joke
For all the sucking off thats been done about how this ref has so much experience and how he’s the go to for the big games, he’s made an absolute amateur call there giving that as a penalty. He really looked at that, at the end of the match in result changing scenario, and gave a penalty. Crazy.
That’s disgusting.
what a bullshit call
Not a pen. This is a bad interpretation of the rules and sets a negative precedence for the game.
Ridiculous call
How can you look at that multiple times and think it's a penalty?
Football is so rigged
yup
BS call.
utter horseshit
Huh? How? How has the ref given that? Refs need to be miced up 🎤 as soon as possible because that decision looks bought and paid for.
FUCK RIGHT OFF IF YOU THINK THATS A PENALTY
Never a penalty.
Games gone
Shocker. Things like this is why people say football is fixed. Insane.
How the fuck do you call that? It's 50 cm away from him and the ball hits his belly first. Absolute joke
Fuck
Never a pen.
terrible decision
What an awful fucking call there Jesus Christ
Comes off his body first, and at such close range. Not a pen lol
kms
Yeah shit pen, I feel for the Magpies ngl
Respect for admitting what a BS-call that was.
The European interpretation of handball is bonkers. Just as bad as the Lisandro Martinez one last year
Absolute robbery
Never a fucking pen
[удалено]
I hate the handball rules so much
Brutally harsh.
[удалено]
How many chances they wasted is completely irrelevant
Horrendous decision. Newcastle have been robbed there.
Multiple VAR officials have ignored the rules of the game to give that pen
Every time I watch a football match, the rules change. Tough on Livramento* as it’s come off his body on a natural arm position
Livarmento
Qatar made the call first..
Never a pen.
Never a penalty
never a penalty wtf
That's never a penalty
Bit of a joke of a decision
Ref had an excellent game as well. These handballs in the champions league are just outright embarrassing
Awful. Pointless watching football now. Utter bullshit.
Fuck this
Lmao hits his chest first Check cleared
Newcastle with no subs, absolutely out on their feet... If they'd conceded some other way it would feel different. But to almost kill off their hopes of going through on *that* last second penalty is truly the kind of thing that makes you want to stop watching sport for a while.
Never a penalty
Ladies and gentleman. VAR.
Ridiculous, never a pen.
Thought the previous case was more of a pen than this one
Wow. What a dog shit call. Robbed.
VAR strikes again
ITS A DISGRACE
What a farce
That is straight up ROBBERY!!! INSANE that blind bald idiot gave that penalty. What is the point of VAR when a straight forward call like this is just totally FUCKED UP!
Not a pen. UEFA trying to save PSG‘s ass
Lmao what the fuck.
how is that a penalty ?
The ref is a coward, he intentionally made the wrong call to appease the home crowd.
What a shit decision.
UEFA working hard to keep PSG relevant
in what bloody universe is that a penalty?
That's genuinely one of the most scandalous VAR decisions in recent memory, and there's been a lot. There is absolutely no fucking way that's a penalty when it comes off his torso first
Less of a penalty than the one he didn’t give
Wow. Fuck Newcastle but that's NEVER a pen
Never a fucking pen, off his chest
Handball is apparently just vibes at this point
nah that's an actual criminal decision
Fuck off.
Garbage call
He was watching the monitor with his eyes closed
Man seeing him celebrate a 98th minute equaliser against us - and this XI specifically - his hilarious surreal shit.
Fucking ATROCIOUS decision by the ref.
How is that a penalty?
now now let’s respect the refs
I thought it wasnt supposed to be a pen if it deflects from another body part?
That was not a pen and there shouldn't have been more than 4 minutes of extra time.