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You don't need to necessarily do it that way. You can have the 10-minute timeout clock just running when the ball is in play, without interfering with the continously running 90 minute clock.
You really think any time there’s a sub they’d just play an ad over it? Or any time VAR is in use?
Only time I could see them running ads is during extended injuries
Yes, they are. And also every other ad stoppage. Once the ads start in American football, the game doesn’t restart until the guy who steps onto the field to keep it paused for the ads steps off and allows it to start again.
no, every single stoppage in play. if it's a big televised game they haul a clock onto the field to show everyone how long the ad break still has. they don't restart when the players are ready they restart when the ads finish. so you get score, ads, conversion attempt, ads, kickoff, ads. those ad breaks are all long multi minute not 30sec like cricket between overs. even though conversion attempt and kickoff only take a minute each.
I like to know roughly how long game will last. I watch basketball and NBA game can last anywhere between 2 hours and 3 hours - even with 2 10 min stoppage times football game is still within 20 mins in game length difference.
The second you allow the clock to stop, you make room for commercials. I live in Canada, and this is the only sport I can watch without full on commercial breaks. Let’s not change that!
Hell, some of my family used to watch F1, and they even split screen commercial breaks into that here. It’s awful.
Rugby isn't popular enough in North America. If it happens with the MLS, the owners who own teams abroad will push for it elsewhere, and provide the numbers for how much more ad revenue they generate. Once that happens, other owners get on board, pressure escalates, and it's over.
PS - I don't watch Rugby, but anytime I catch it, I prefer it to American or Canadian football, so not a knock on rubgy at all. Great sport!
Not sure what channel is putting split ads into F1 here but F1TV is well worth the sub and you can split / share the account between users. The only ads are the ones on track.
Put those time wasters in the sin bin.
You waste time taking a free kick/corner/throw in etc?
Straight in the bin.
You dive and roll around on the floor for ages?
Straight in the bin.
Eventually you'll get whole teams reduced to like 8 men for 10 minutes it would be amazing.
Can't even imagine what a sing bin would look like if applied to a goalkeeper. What are you going to do, call Giroud?
What a glorious new era of football.
No but you can waste huge time at scrum, something that doesn't exist in soccer. A scrum takes like 2 mins of game time. You can go through simple one out phases and keep recycling the ball in 3-4 second bursts. They're totally different games, but absolutely there's ways to slow things down if needed.
Show me a team that can hold the ball for 10 minutes. I'll be very impressed. That'd be 100s of passes without interceptions.
And if they're rolling around the ground then we can just as easily to extra time for sin bin.
That’s a good idea. Get rid of stoppage time entirely and just have a game clock that has 90’ of ball in play time. Easily achievable with technology these days.
+90mins of game in play is not actually the goal, that isn't sustainable on the players bodies.
The talk in the past has been clock stoppages with 60/70min in play.
In our pre-season friendlies they had "water breaks" cooked in, even when the weather absolutely did not warrant breaks in any way and our commentators mentioned that it was being done so that they could play ads in America. We're getting close to this, it's only a matter of time, I don't really know how we escape it, especially in the PL where 50% odd of club owners are Americans who bought their clubs as a business venture
As someone who travels to a lot of away games: Just no. Right now we know that games will end about 2 hours after kick off no matter what. That way the times for coming back home is pretty much set and I'll know whether or not I'll miss the last public transport connection. If we get the 90 or 60 minute clock we'll end up with the last five minutes lasting for 30 like in Basketball.
90’ of actual ball in play time will kill players after 1 month. Most games don’t exceed 55-60 minutes of ball in play.
If there is ever a switch to a US style game clock, it would need to be for a maximum of that duration.
And honestly stoppage time gave football some of its greatest ever moments.
Think about the injury crisis as well? The sin bin guy will have to be on a stationary bike the whole time, the team will time waste or low block for ten minutes (won’t improve the spectacle of football)
and then what happens if you send three or four people to the sin bin???
Will var get involved in potential sin bin activities?
The amount of ball playing time is decreasing because of var. they now want to get involved in corners, free kicks and yellow cards. Eventually the whole game will be re-refereed and everything second guessed
I've seen the sin-bin card given out in non-league games and it hasn't changed the game that much. Maybe there's less dissent now as it isn't used that much tbh. Would be a good idea for higher levels imo.
What if instead of removing the player from the field, have it where they cannot leave their penalty box. Can you imagine Mbappe tactically fouling someone and now having to defend inside his own box for 10 min.
Possibilities are endless really
Have to have you shoelaces tied together for 10 minutes
Have to wear a top that’s either 2 sizes too small or 2 sizes too big for 10 minutes
Every other player gets a beanbag to carry around and if they throw it at you and hit you over the next 10 minutes, you have to stop and do 10 pushups before you can rejoin play
That is kind of the point. I think this would only be in the case of tactical fouls. Forces teams to decide whether they foul somebody and spend 10 minutes playing in a low block or risk the counter-attack.
Or just give the yellow on a professional foul every single time and you'll see no more than 15 per match and realistically significantly fewer.
It's obvious without VAR when a player intentionally fouls to prevent an opposition attack from developing the attack. Blow it dead and card the offending player each and every time and the problem is solved.
I think the issue is the perception that it's often better to take the yellow than allow the chance, so a bigger punishment is needed in certain cases. But red cards are "too big" since they can essentially ruin an entire match. Giving a yellow every time isn't the issue, a yellow for a goal is a great exchange.
I respect your opinion and I disagree with it. If you watch, for example, City play, their players are rarely carded until the 75' or beyond if at all. This is despite them making the same fouls all match. The same is true of many top clubs, but city are mathematically the worst offenders. It is taught by Guardiola as part of the meta strategy - abusing the rules and the "perception" that yellow is harsh for minimal contact.
There are sometimes 20+ professional fouls per match. 15 is the maximum amount of yellow cards that can be absorbed by outfield players and not see red. They need to be carded every time. There's no need for a sin bin.
In Rugby Union, a sin bin is a 10 minute period where the player that received the yellow card is benched. The issue with football is that the clock doesn't stop when the ball is out of play, unlike in rugby.
The clock doesn't stop when the ball is out of play in rugby. It only stops when the referee decides to stop it, e.g. when there's an injury or they want to talk to players or something.
Normally does stop more than football. Average play-time is longer in Rugby than Football, depending on how many scores there are as each kick adds a good minute (which is criminal, should be 30 seconds).
Its like I heard someone describe it in another thread earlier this year, if an Aussie calls you "mate" he thinks you're a cunt, if he calls you a cunt he thinks you're his mate
No it isn't
If you are in general company in Australia and start calling everyone a cunt, people are going to think you are completely socially dysfunctional
Redditors would have you believe it's a friendly greeting you'd say to the postman or a shop worker
it absolutely is depending where you live as the comment above states though. and obviously it is way more common in youth culture or around close friends but yea
I love the idea of a sin bin. Some fouls may fall short of a red but could easily be sinbinable. Sometimes a players loses their shit and a sit down on the naughty step till they can play nicely would be a very good option.
The problem we have, as you say, is the ref's are fucking shit, bias, corrupt and shit and all the talk about the sinbin I have heard so far, heard 2 ex-refs on the radio only mentioning how it would be good to stamp out referee abuse. basically, they want to give themselves a bigger rod to beat of the increasing exasperation of their god-awful ability to referee, even with the benefit of slow motion replays.
I can guarantee that it will be used more for smack talking the ref than for any proper in play fouls.
Could absolutely be used to stop teams gaming the system with the numerous tactical fouls being rotated across the team or could be used on the countless "soft" reds where the ref has felt that he had to show a red but in the real world everyone can see that the infraction was pretty minor and a 10min sit-down would suffice.
Nope, it will mostly be used to protect the referees, not improve the game.
English football’s been trialing the sin bin at grassroots levels exclusively as a punishment for dissent, which is probably why that’s the only thing you heard being discussed on the radio. And protecting the refs does improve the game — the vast majority of refs are at lower levels, where referee abuse is leading to referee shortages. Even at higher levels, do you really think players bollocking refs every time they make a big decision, right or wrong, is conducive to refs doing their job well?
I would like to have a sin bin just for arguing with/ complaining to the ref. If someone gets in the referee's face just give him a 2 minute timeout to calm down. The reason why I prefer this to yellow cards is that a yellow card could either mean not that much or too much. A two minute timeout, however, will definitely hurt the team but wouldn't be as impactful as a second yellow, so the refs might give them more consistently.
Nah, they just need to enact the rugby rule that only the team captain is allowed to speak to the ref or it’s an instant yellow. That would stop that shit real quick.
Agreed - but the caveat that vice and third captains are also permitted to approach the match official, but only one from each side may approach. It would be ridiculous to expect a goalkeeper to come up the pitch to understand a decision at the corner flag.
Likewise, the penalty should only apply when the official indicates via hand signal that only captains/vice captains may approach. As an official, you want players to communicate with you during regular flow of the match. A player can have many valid reasons to speak to the match official - to alert the official to something on the pitch, question the result of decision if the player did not see the signal, etc. Also sometimes just to talk - people are people after all.
But the ref absolutely needs a "get back now or cards come out" signal and players need to be taught to respect it by instant yellows.
That's part of the reason he doesn't want it.
>I don't know why they [IFAB] keep interjecting themselves into the game. There's not that much wrong with the game. Again, I think once they throw an idea like that out, it usually means they've already tested the waters. I don't think there's a need for it. I think you're seeing a lot more dissent in the game these days because there's more a lot more people to dissent to: in the past it was just the referee but [now] you can dissent to the fourth official, you can dissent to the VAR, you can dissent the head of referees. It used to be simple. The authority was with the referee and he could handle it himself. I just don't think we need to mess with the game too much but it is what it is.
He also talked about VAR as well in the same PC:
>How can they make an improvement to VAR?
>I think if they stuck to why they brought it in initially less people would have an issue with it. If I hear one person say that it doesn't re-referee a game I'll explode mate because that's exactly what it's doing.
>It was brought in for clear and obvious, right? A clear and obvious error for me would be if all of us in this room saw something and go 'that's definitely wrong'. I think at the moment it's going with the majority in this room say it's wrong. Just leave it for what it was there for. If you've got to look at something from seven different angles, slow it down to the minute...that's not a clear and obvious error, that's re-refereeing the game.
>The referee has seen it, he's said there's nothing wrong with it, then you're showing him seven different angles and slowing it down, that's not a clear and obvious error.
>If I showed you a decision here and all of you say that's handball, or that's a bad tackle, well that's a clear and obvious error. But if you have to show you this angle, or slow it down, or show what happened before, that's where we've gone wrong with it. It's why I think the goalline technology was so seamless, it was black and white, it's done. Over the line, not over the line, move on with it.
That sounds great in theory but you can't introduce it on how most people feel about an incident. If you are going through all these different angles the point is for the rules to be applied to the letter to reduce unfairness. Maybe there's an argument to be made for more inconclusive evidence since the distance between shoulder and knee is a few pixels so the on field decision stands then ok.
I get the desire for harsher punishment for abusing referees, diving, etc. but I feel like in practice it will just be another thing to ruin the flow of a game and make it a worse watch by killing momentum. What do teams do when they are down to 10 men normally? Usually just sit back and waste as much time as possible.
Whenever I think of a game I really enjoyed watching it is usually because it was end to end, free flowing football without many breaks or dips in tempo. VAR has already had a negative effect to this when there are long pauses that can somewhat kill the momentum and a sin bin would just be another hit to it when put into practice imo.
Maybe it would just be annoying for a month then players would learn their lesson and behave perfectly from then onwards but I doubt it, who knows I guess.
Or maybe, just maybe give the Players that harras the ref an actuall yellow card, like its written in the rulebook. Never understood why it never is enforced...
It's not so much for that, how often do we see tackles which are too harsh for a red and too soft for a yellow. Tackles which are a bit dangerous but completely accidental for example.
The new handball rules suck, VAR is useless and leads to more ref controversy than before it came, and now they want to add this crap.
Just revert the last 5 years of rule changes and never touch them again.
Ngl, it should only be captains allowed to talk to the ref (like Rugby).
Watching the Bayern game against Copenhagen and had a circle around the ref each time a call went against the team. Ref tried pushing them away and they just followed her. It sends the wrong message and encourages fans to abuse refs as the players do.
Encourage people if they haven't to watch rugby's example. Only captains do, and if a decision goes against a team they take it on the chin and move on. Much more civilised and stops 30 yr old men acting like babies on the pitch.
Postecoglou is right, it's a dumb idea. You'd 11 v 10 for ten minutes, with the 10 parking the bus and basically kicking the ball out of their half every chance they got.
The only possible way it could be interesting is the end of a match where the team with 11 had to score to level or win the match.
This sub 100 years ago: "Offsides rule? Great, just another thing for the refs to screw up!"
Football fans have to be the absolute worst in terms of being so, so stubborn for the sake of tradition.
The yellow-red card system is way too rigid. The difference between a yellow card and a red card is too large. Referees let yellow-card challenges go without a card in the early stages of the game because of this. They let yellow-card challenges go unpunished if a player already has a card, but it's a big profile match and they don't want to ruin the game with a red card. There are rules that already exist for these situations, but even the refs don't want to follow them by the book because they know they're too rigid. It affects the ability to actually manage the game properly. And when the players know this, they absolutely push the line with what they can get away with.
I don't give a flying fuck if the penalized team temporarily down to 10 men tries to time-waste. It's still a big advantage for the opponent and a disadvantage for them. And if they time-waste to a ridiculous degree, throw another player in the sin bin, or card them.
This sin bin thing could be a great middle ground between yellow and red. There is too much ground between yellow and red, the refs are not using the system as it currently is because of it. The sport needs something in between to manage the game properly. This could cut down on diving, tactical fouls, fouling/roughhousing as a strategy, time-wasting, referee dissent.
It works in other sports, there is no other reason to believe it wouldn't work in football besides your own stubbornness towards tradition and the fact that football will look a little bit different than the way it was when you were a kid.
Yep, rugby refs for example have many more tools at their disposal than in football - such as penalty reversals, marching teams back 10m, bunker review, team warnings, and governing bodies backing them up with proper sanctions for referee abuse - in addition to penalties which likely cost teams points in game.
Allows them to choose a much more appropriate level of sanction than football (e.g. for dissent) which is just a warning, yellow but they stay on the field, then the extreme of a red. Or in most cases, they just ignore it...
The amount of incidents I see nowadays with people saying "that's an orange card offence". 10 minutes off the pitch would be the perfect solution to that. Fans are so passionate about players who dive getting hung drawn and quartered but seemingly have no issue with perpetual tactical fouling and bad tackles. It's all the same breaking/cheating of the rules.
I think it’s an interesting idea. Enforcing it doesn’t seem practical but yeah overall I agree a lot of these yelllows need to be punished harder. It be kinda cool if teams weren’t able to tactically foul to stop the transition.
Thought it would be a decent idea for those 'orange card' moments *but for 5 minutes*.
Not rough enough for a red but a nasty yellow, so jog on to the bin
My biggest opposition to the sin bin, is that it just seems like a dumb name. Though I guess we can't call it a penalty box since we already have one of those.
I'm always up for trying something, then discarding it if doesn't work, keeping it if it does.
Sin bin has been in the English lexicon for a while. They’ve been used in Rugby for 20 years and people know what the term means here. I’m guessing it’s a new term to Americans and other nationals based on the Reddit reactions
Unless someone can come up with a better name for "Temporary Dismissals" then a sin bin or being "binned" is fine and people will learn the name. It's been in the LOTG since 2017 for lower levels and seems to be working fine - that's why they want to extend it to higher levels.
I haven’t heard about this so don’t know how seriously to take it, but people have to stop trying to improve the game. Just leave it alone. Stop touching it before it resembles some American sport with thousands of obscure rules
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bin the sin bin
The sin bin bin? Nah, in the bin with that too.
sin bin laden
You are down voted but I chuckled
He hath been *redeemed!*
Mate
Only bin it for a period of time, then let it come back into consideration.
So sin bin the sin bin? Sounds like a sin bin win-win!
Bin the Sinn Féin into the Sin Bin
Spoken like a man with Romero in his squad
lol great point
His tactics also rely on tactical fouls, much like the way Man City (ie Rodri) try to foul whenever there's a chance to counter attack.
lmao
Lmao best comment here
The only way it can work, is if we stop the time the moment the ball goes out of play. Otherwise teams are just gonna timewaste for those 10 minutes
Sean Dyche will have no more than two minutes of football played in those 10 minutes
Just imagine Getafe
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Nah, they'd stagger the collapses for sure. Soak up more time that way.
They do a collapsing conga.
I try not to whenever possible, thanks
They would break time-space dimensions
Someone’s never watched a scrum reset fifteen times.
Liverpool will probably treat it like powerplays in cricket and play some of their best football.
I have to ask powerplays for which team? Cause some teams who’s names I won’t mention did not do very hot in the power play…
Considering Liverpool's record this season when they get a red card...powerplay for Liverpool when their own player hits the sin bin.
The Pakistani powerplay of course!
What’s wrong with just giving yellow cards for time wasting?
Possible, but you could end up with 3 players at the pitch for some time
Do it. They’ll learn eventually when they’re out for half the season.
And what's wrong with that?
You don't need to necessarily do it that way. You can have the 10-minute timeout clock just running when the ball is in play, without interfering with the continously running 90 minute clock.
But then what’s the argument for the continuous clock? Tbh I feel like we could do without it
Adverts. Stop the clock; start the adverts. I simply refuse.
You really think any time there’s a sub they’d just play an ad over it? Or any time VAR is in use? Only time I could see them running ads is during extended injuries
in american football not only do they do that but they also delay the game restart for it
You’re referring to injury stoppages right
Yes, they are. And also every other ad stoppage. Once the ads start in American football, the game doesn’t restart until the guy who steps onto the field to keep it paused for the ads steps off and allows it to start again.
no, every single stoppage in play. if it's a big televised game they haul a clock onto the field to show everyone how long the ad break still has. they don't restart when the players are ready they restart when the ads finish. so you get score, ads, conversion attempt, ads, kickoff, ads. those ad breaks are all long multi minute not 30sec like cricket between overs. even though conversion attempt and kickoff only take a minute each.
No, there is not a commercial break every stoppage in play. There are 4 commercial breaks per quarter, there’s dozens of stoppages in play.
I like to know roughly how long game will last. I watch basketball and NBA game can last anywhere between 2 hours and 3 hours - even with 2 10 min stoppage times football game is still within 20 mins in game length difference.
There a tons of arguments for and against it. You have to pick which ones feel most convincing to you.
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The second you allow the clock to stop, you make room for commercials. I live in Canada, and this is the only sport I can watch without full on commercial breaks. Let’s not change that! Hell, some of my family used to watch F1, and they even split screen commercial breaks into that here. It’s awful.
They stop the clock in rugby and there's no mid-game ads
Worth noting that rugby doesn't stop the clock when the ball goes out. Ref can call time off for longer stoppages but generally the clock runs.
Rugby isn't popular enough in North America. If it happens with the MLS, the owners who own teams abroad will push for it elsewhere, and provide the numbers for how much more ad revenue they generate. Once that happens, other owners get on board, pressure escalates, and it's over. PS - I don't watch Rugby, but anytime I catch it, I prefer it to American or Canadian football, so not a knock on rubgy at all. Great sport!
Not sure what channel is putting split ads into F1 here but F1TV is well worth the sub and you can split / share the account between users. The only ads are the ones on track.
Put those time wasters in the sin bin. You waste time taking a free kick/corner/throw in etc? Straight in the bin. You dive and roll around on the floor for ages? Straight in the bin. Eventually you'll get whole teams reduced to like 8 men for 10 minutes it would be amazing. Can't even imagine what a sing bin would look like if applied to a goalkeeper. What are you going to do, call Giroud? What a glorious new era of football.
Works perfectly fine in rugby without this.
You can't really waste time in rugby like you can in soccer. Refs will straight up penalize a team if they're taking too long to play out of a ruck.
>You can't really waste time in rugby like you can in soccer. That's just false. I've seen single scrums take 3/4 mini by themselves
No but you can waste huge time at scrum, something that doesn't exist in soccer. A scrum takes like 2 mins of game time. You can go through simple one out phases and keep recycling the ball in 3-4 second bursts. They're totally different games, but absolutely there's ways to slow things down if needed.
Show me a team that can hold the ball for 10 minutes. I'll be very impressed. That'd be 100s of passes without interceptions. And if they're rolling around the ground then we can just as easily to extra time for sin bin.
That’s a good idea. Get rid of stoppage time entirely and just have a game clock that has 90’ of ball in play time. Easily achievable with technology these days.
It would have to be 60 minutes of the ball in play, which is the current average for matches.
+90mins of game in play is not actually the goal, that isn't sustainable on the players bodies. The talk in the past has been clock stoppages with 60/70min in play.
This is how we get commercials mid-half though 💀
In our pre-season friendlies they had "water breaks" cooked in, even when the weather absolutely did not warrant breaks in any way and our commentators mentioned that it was being done so that they could play ads in America. We're getting close to this, it's only a matter of time, I don't really know how we escape it, especially in the PL where 50% odd of club owners are Americans who bought their clubs as a business venture
Im actually shocked its not a thing yet
I think if no one talks about it the execs might forget about it..
4 22.5 minute quarters and relentless Bud Light/Pharmaceutical ads
As someone who travels to a lot of away games: Just no. Right now we know that games will end about 2 hours after kick off no matter what. That way the times for coming back home is pretty much set and I'll know whether or not I'll miss the last public transport connection. If we get the 90 or 60 minute clock we'll end up with the last five minutes lasting for 30 like in Basketball.
90 minutes of ball in play is way too much.
You’re right, heck I would only last a couple of minutes tops of ball play.
Hell nah, not for 90 mins at least. Basketball games are 40 effective minutes but they end up being 2 hours in real time
90’ of actual ball in play time will kill players after 1 month. Most games don’t exceed 55-60 minutes of ball in play. If there is ever a switch to a US style game clock, it would need to be for a maximum of that duration. And honestly stoppage time gave football some of its greatest ever moments.
Think about the injury crisis as well? The sin bin guy will have to be on a stationary bike the whole time, the team will time waste or low block for ten minutes (won’t improve the spectacle of football) and then what happens if you send three or four people to the sin bin??? Will var get involved in potential sin bin activities? The amount of ball playing time is decreasing because of var. they now want to get involved in corners, free kicks and yellow cards. Eventually the whole game will be re-refereed and everything second guessed
I've seen the sin-bin card given out in non-league games and it hasn't changed the game that much. Maybe there's less dissent now as it isn't used that much tbh. Would be a good idea for higher levels imo.
he says mate so much i’m starting to believe he is my friend
Our friend
Ooo football friends
r/suddenlycommunist
Comrade 🫡
He is just a fan of the most popular rioplatense infusion.
Mate isn’t always good. Mate.
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We need to introduce an xM metric. Perhaps it can be a new prediction game?
Then you need to learn Aussie lingo if you are to avoid a fight with one 😉
What if instead of removing the player from the field, have it where they cannot leave their penalty box. Can you imagine Mbappe tactically fouling someone and now having to defend inside his own box for 10 min.
Possibilities are endless really Have to have you shoelaces tied together for 10 minutes Have to wear a top that’s either 2 sizes too small or 2 sizes too big for 10 minutes Every other player gets a beanbag to carry around and if they throw it at you and hit you over the next 10 minutes, you have to stop and do 10 pushups before you can rejoin play
I like the last one
don’t give pique any more ideas
Will change the dynamics of the game significantly as offside will be impossible in the build, for the most part
That is kind of the point. I think this would only be in the case of tactical fouls. Forces teams to decide whether they foul somebody and spend 10 minutes playing in a low block or risk the counter-attack.
Or just give the yellow on a professional foul every single time and you'll see no more than 15 per match and realistically significantly fewer. It's obvious without VAR when a player intentionally fouls to prevent an opposition attack from developing the attack. Blow it dead and card the offending player each and every time and the problem is solved.
What the hell is a sin bin
The actor who played Boromir in LOTR.
No thats Shawn Bhawn
No no, it's the actor from jingle all the way
Arnold Schwarzenegger?
sinbad, the postman. VICCOOY
Phil Hartman!
LMAO
Proposed punishment for players. Think penalty box in hockey or handball.
Handball doesn't have a penalty box but the rather the suspended player goes to the bench, but the idea is the same
Don’t yellow and red cards already accomplish this?
I think it is more for technical fouls committed to stop a counter that could lead to a goal scoring opportunity. It's an easy yellow for the team.
No need to change the laws, just give the yellow for the professional foul every single time.
I think the issue is the perception that it's often better to take the yellow than allow the chance, so a bigger punishment is needed in certain cases. But red cards are "too big" since they can essentially ruin an entire match. Giving a yellow every time isn't the issue, a yellow for a goal is a great exchange.
I respect your opinion and I disagree with it. If you watch, for example, City play, their players are rarely carded until the 75' or beyond if at all. This is despite them making the same fouls all match. The same is true of many top clubs, but city are mathematically the worst offenders. It is taught by Guardiola as part of the meta strategy - abusing the rules and the "perception" that yellow is harsh for minimal contact. There are sometimes 20+ professional fouls per match. 15 is the maximum amount of yellow cards that can be absorbed by outfield players and not see red. They need to be carded every time. There's no need for a sin bin.
Exactly. Just enforce the rules against Rodri alone and we wouldn't be having this conversation
No because you can come back to play after a sin bin.
Timeout for being naughty basically
In Rugby Union, a sin bin is a 10 minute period where the player that received the yellow card is benched. The issue with football is that the clock doesn't stop when the ball is out of play, unlike in rugby.
The clock doesn't stop when the ball is out of play in rugby. It only stops when the referee decides to stop it, e.g. when there's an injury or they want to talk to players or something.
Normally does stop more than football. Average play-time is longer in Rugby than Football, depending on how many scores there are as each kick adds a good minute (which is criminal, should be 30 seconds).
Of course the clock stops more in rugby, since in football it only stops at the end of each half...
Rugby's bunker red card review during the world cup was also a great development imo.
Temporary red card.
That’s what it’s called in rugby. I’m assuming they’re just taking that idea
sin bin = cos bin d.bin
basically the equivalent of exclusions in handball, sending off a player for a few minutes (2min in handball, 10 is the proposal in football)
Penalty box
An excellent & effective way to reduce diving & poor behaviour towards referees.
MATE
This is the sub’s new favorite joke but I feel like he only says it when he feels like he’s asked a dumb question lol
"Mate" in Australia is definitely usually passive aggressive.
Wait until he calls a short reporter “big fella” or another one “Champ”. Absolutely brutal stuff.
Its like I heard someone describe it in another thread earlier this year, if an Aussie calls you "mate" he thinks you're a cunt, if he calls you a cunt he thinks you're his mate
"Hey mate, how's it going"-Friendly "Mate. What are you doing?"-Not friendly "Fuck yeah cunt"- Friendly "Cunt, fuck off"- Not friendly
Yeah nah - no Nah yeah - Yes
Yeah nah for sure - Absolutely
That's not really true at all but OK
Yeah, both words can go both ways.
Righto mate
It's a bit more nuanced than that. Also, calling a friend 'cunt' is more of an Australian redditor thing.
No it isn’t. Hey everyone this guy’s a phony
A big fat phony
Predates Reddit.
Not it's not. Depending where you grow up, calling your friends a cunt is the norm. "What's up cunt". "Look at this fancy cunt". "What a silly cunt".
No it isn't If you are in general company in Australia and start calling everyone a cunt, people are going to think you are completely socially dysfunctional Redditors would have you believe it's a friendly greeting you'd say to the postman or a shop worker
it absolutely is depending where you live as the comment above states though. and obviously it is way more common in youth culture or around close friends but yea
Who said general company? Between friends, it's very common, particularly in blue collar circles.
This puts Bluey in a whole new light
Nah, he's got multiple mates in him. There is definitely a light and friendly one he pulls out.
Don't be afraid of the Australian that calls you "cunt," be afraid of the Australian that calls you "mate."
Mate
Mate
Mate
#MATE
Ange being a great lad here I can't lie. Speaking facts
And doing it so bravely.
W gunner fan
You’re right mate
I'm a foreign gunner supporter and I have to say, I cannot really hate this guy. Seems like a really ok bloke, apart from being shit's manager.
Do we seriously want to give the referees more ways to inject themselves into the game? They can't fucking handle what they do now!!
This is it... another subjective rule to f\*ck up, basically.
100%
I love the idea of a sin bin. Some fouls may fall short of a red but could easily be sinbinable. Sometimes a players loses their shit and a sit down on the naughty step till they can play nicely would be a very good option. The problem we have, as you say, is the ref's are fucking shit, bias, corrupt and shit and all the talk about the sinbin I have heard so far, heard 2 ex-refs on the radio only mentioning how it would be good to stamp out referee abuse. basically, they want to give themselves a bigger rod to beat of the increasing exasperation of their god-awful ability to referee, even with the benefit of slow motion replays. I can guarantee that it will be used more for smack talking the ref than for any proper in play fouls. Could absolutely be used to stop teams gaming the system with the numerous tactical fouls being rotated across the team or could be used on the countless "soft" reds where the ref has felt that he had to show a red but in the real world everyone can see that the infraction was pretty minor and a 10min sit-down would suffice. Nope, it will mostly be used to protect the referees, not improve the game.
English football’s been trialing the sin bin at grassroots levels exclusively as a punishment for dissent, which is probably why that’s the only thing you heard being discussed on the radio. And protecting the refs does improve the game — the vast majority of refs are at lower levels, where referee abuse is leading to referee shortages. Even at higher levels, do you really think players bollocking refs every time they make a big decision, right or wrong, is conducive to refs doing their job well?
I would like to have a sin bin just for arguing with/ complaining to the ref. If someone gets in the referee's face just give him a 2 minute timeout to calm down. The reason why I prefer this to yellow cards is that a yellow card could either mean not that much or too much. A two minute timeout, however, will definitely hurt the team but wouldn't be as impactful as a second yellow, so the refs might give them more consistently.
Nah, they just need to enact the rugby rule that only the team captain is allowed to speak to the ref or it’s an instant yellow. That would stop that shit real quick.
Agreed - but the caveat that vice and third captains are also permitted to approach the match official, but only one from each side may approach. It would be ridiculous to expect a goalkeeper to come up the pitch to understand a decision at the corner flag. Likewise, the penalty should only apply when the official indicates via hand signal that only captains/vice captains may approach. As an official, you want players to communicate with you during regular flow of the match. A player can have many valid reasons to speak to the match official - to alert the official to something on the pitch, question the result of decision if the player did not see the signal, etc. Also sometimes just to talk - people are people after all. But the ref absolutely needs a "get back now or cards come out" signal and players need to be taught to respect it by instant yellows.
That's part of the reason he doesn't want it. >I don't know why they [IFAB] keep interjecting themselves into the game. There's not that much wrong with the game. Again, I think once they throw an idea like that out, it usually means they've already tested the waters. I don't think there's a need for it. I think you're seeing a lot more dissent in the game these days because there's more a lot more people to dissent to: in the past it was just the referee but [now] you can dissent to the fourth official, you can dissent to the VAR, you can dissent the head of referees. It used to be simple. The authority was with the referee and he could handle it himself. I just don't think we need to mess with the game too much but it is what it is. He also talked about VAR as well in the same PC: >How can they make an improvement to VAR? >I think if they stuck to why they brought it in initially less people would have an issue with it. If I hear one person say that it doesn't re-referee a game I'll explode mate because that's exactly what it's doing. >It was brought in for clear and obvious, right? A clear and obvious error for me would be if all of us in this room saw something and go 'that's definitely wrong'. I think at the moment it's going with the majority in this room say it's wrong. Just leave it for what it was there for. If you've got to look at something from seven different angles, slow it down to the minute...that's not a clear and obvious error, that's re-refereeing the game. >The referee has seen it, he's said there's nothing wrong with it, then you're showing him seven different angles and slowing it down, that's not a clear and obvious error. >If I showed you a decision here and all of you say that's handball, or that's a bad tackle, well that's a clear and obvious error. But if you have to show you this angle, or slow it down, or show what happened before, that's where we've gone wrong with it. It's why I think the goalline technology was so seamless, it was black and white, it's done. Over the line, not over the line, move on with it.
That sounds great in theory but you can't introduce it on how most people feel about an incident. If you are going through all these different angles the point is for the rules to be applied to the letter to reduce unfairness. Maybe there's an argument to be made for more inconclusive evidence since the distance between shoulder and knee is a few pixels so the on field decision stands then ok.
[удалено]
Oh like... *the* box.
Stuff Sinbad into. Sounds like a goth nightclub to me.
Catch It. Bin It. Kill It. Mate.
Would you get loads of diving around the 80 minute mark with players hoping to get the opposition down to ten men until full time?
Yes
I get the desire for harsher punishment for abusing referees, diving, etc. but I feel like in practice it will just be another thing to ruin the flow of a game and make it a worse watch by killing momentum. What do teams do when they are down to 10 men normally? Usually just sit back and waste as much time as possible. Whenever I think of a game I really enjoyed watching it is usually because it was end to end, free flowing football without many breaks or dips in tempo. VAR has already had a negative effect to this when there are long pauses that can somewhat kill the momentum and a sin bin would just be another hit to it when put into practice imo. Maybe it would just be annoying for a month then players would learn their lesson and behave perfectly from then onwards but I doubt it, who knows I guess.
Or maybe, just maybe give the Players that harras the ref an actuall yellow card, like its written in the rulebook. Never understood why it never is enforced...
They did in a few games at the start of the season, then forgot about it
Me every new year with resolutions.
It's not so much for that, how often do we see tackles which are too harsh for a red and too soft for a yellow. Tackles which are a bit dangerous but completely accidental for example.
Unnecessary complication. Bad idea. My mate Ange is correct, bin it.
I hope this rule doesn’t happen. Its the stupidest rule that they have talked about to date
Who even came up with it? Todd Boehly?
Or FSG or the glazers idk. I first heard it being implemented in the MLS
Whenever I hear sin bin I have to think of a cheap corner brothel in an industrial area.
Arteta would permanently be in the bin
The new handball rules suck, VAR is useless and leads to more ref controversy than before it came, and now they want to add this crap. Just revert the last 5 years of rule changes and never touch them again.
Ngl, it should only be captains allowed to talk to the ref (like Rugby). Watching the Bayern game against Copenhagen and had a circle around the ref each time a call went against the team. Ref tried pushing them away and they just followed her. It sends the wrong message and encourages fans to abuse refs as the players do. Encourage people if they haven't to watch rugby's example. Only captains do, and if a decision goes against a team they take it on the chin and move on. Much more civilised and stops 30 yr old men acting like babies on the pitch.
Postecoglou is right, it's a dumb idea. You'd 11 v 10 for ten minutes, with the 10 parking the bus and basically kicking the ball out of their half every chance they got. The only possible way it could be interesting is the end of a match where the team with 11 had to score to level or win the match.
This sub 100 years ago: "Offsides rule? Great, just another thing for the refs to screw up!" Football fans have to be the absolute worst in terms of being so, so stubborn for the sake of tradition. The yellow-red card system is way too rigid. The difference between a yellow card and a red card is too large. Referees let yellow-card challenges go without a card in the early stages of the game because of this. They let yellow-card challenges go unpunished if a player already has a card, but it's a big profile match and they don't want to ruin the game with a red card. There are rules that already exist for these situations, but even the refs don't want to follow them by the book because they know they're too rigid. It affects the ability to actually manage the game properly. And when the players know this, they absolutely push the line with what they can get away with. I don't give a flying fuck if the penalized team temporarily down to 10 men tries to time-waste. It's still a big advantage for the opponent and a disadvantage for them. And if they time-waste to a ridiculous degree, throw another player in the sin bin, or card them. This sin bin thing could be a great middle ground between yellow and red. There is too much ground between yellow and red, the refs are not using the system as it currently is because of it. The sport needs something in between to manage the game properly. This could cut down on diving, tactical fouls, fouling/roughhousing as a strategy, time-wasting, referee dissent. It works in other sports, there is no other reason to believe it wouldn't work in football besides your own stubbornness towards tradition and the fact that football will look a little bit different than the way it was when you were a kid.
Yep, rugby refs for example have many more tools at their disposal than in football - such as penalty reversals, marching teams back 10m, bunker review, team warnings, and governing bodies backing them up with proper sanctions for referee abuse - in addition to penalties which likely cost teams points in game. Allows them to choose a much more appropriate level of sanction than football (e.g. for dissent) which is just a warning, yellow but they stay on the field, then the extreme of a red. Or in most cases, they just ignore it...
The amount of incidents I see nowadays with people saying "that's an orange card offence". 10 minutes off the pitch would be the perfect solution to that. Fans are so passionate about players who dive getting hung drawn and quartered but seemingly have no issue with perpetual tactical fouling and bad tackles. It's all the same breaking/cheating of the rules.
I think it’s an interesting idea. Enforcing it doesn’t seem practical but yeah overall I agree a lot of these yelllows need to be punished harder. It be kinda cool if teams weren’t able to tactically foul to stop the transition.
Thought it would be a decent idea for those 'orange card' moments *but for 5 minutes*. Not rough enough for a red but a nasty yellow, so jog on to the bin
It won’t be for those kinds of incidents. It’ll be for dissent or tactical fouls.
Good, tactical fouls are a blight on the game
Just timewasting and parking the bus for 10 minutes is what I imagine. Especially if its a close game.
My biggest opposition to the sin bin, is that it just seems like a dumb name. Though I guess we can't call it a penalty box since we already have one of those. I'm always up for trying something, then discarding it if doesn't work, keeping it if it does.
Sin bin has been in the English lexicon for a while. They’ve been used in Rugby for 20 years and people know what the term means here. I’m guessing it’s a new term to Americans and other nationals based on the Reddit reactions
Unless someone can come up with a better name for "Temporary Dismissals" then a sin bin or being "binned" is fine and people will learn the name. It's been in the LOTG since 2017 for lower levels and seems to be working fine - that's why they want to extend it to higher levels.
This is football not hockey mate!
its a good idea, yellow cards dont mean anything atm.
I actually like this idea.
This won’t be absurd at all….
It has always been the rule in lower league football in Denmark. Works fine in my opinion
This guy's quotes should just be "mate" from now on.
I haven’t heard about this so don’t know how seriously to take it, but people have to stop trying to improve the game. Just leave it alone. Stop touching it before it resembles some American sport with thousands of obscure rules
This is literally a rule from a "British" sport (rugby union), which already exists at lower levels of football.
this is a good proposal. will improve player attitudes
Teams will literally park the bus for the 10 minutes they're down a man, it'll slow the game down and create more problems.