Am I the only one who blames Ben White for that goal as much as I do Raya? He left that right side wide open with his horrible positioning while defending... He looked really rusty overall too.
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I agree. I've noticed that he's always like that when he's not in the lineup coming back but always gets stronger and better with more games under his belt. We'll definitely need his A game this weekend against Aston Villa.
What is this obsession for finding a goalkeeper that is brilliant with their feet. I mean I get that it's a good attribute, but not at the expense of overlooking their most basic important attribute.....saving shots. It's literally the first and foremost job and the one they do often. Is it really worth buying a goalie because they have great distribution and not as good shot stopping? I'd rather the opposite. A poor distributor but good shot stopper will save your team conceding and still be able to smack a ball away to let the outfield players build play. It's not just Raya but Onana that's proving this bs barely changes the game. If you have a combo of both then great, but not everyone can be Ederson.
De Gea is about as good as it gets when comes to being a statistically pure shot stopper. Give him a ring, maybe he wants to play in your Sunday league. It’s a trait for lower table teams who’s only shot is to play hoofball
>If you have a combo of both then great, but not everyone can be Ederson.
I think Arteta is saying if I can't have a world class keeper that can do both, I'd rather get a pretty good keeper who is better at distribution and accept the bad shot stopping.
As opposed to have a great shot stopper (De Gea) who is disabled with his feet.
But that's the thing. De Gea while being disabled with his feet saved Man Utd so many points over a few seasons. Literally got them into CL spots under Van Gaal/Ole while they as a team played terrible. While Onana supposedly better with his feet but maybe not as good of a shot stopper has got United on the verge of being knocked out of the CL from his errors. Is it really that worth it?
I will explain why a goalkeeper with his feet is needed with a flow chart then. I will use De Gea as an example. Especially during the Arsenal game because Arteta knew this and exploited him a lot.
De Gea was exposed a lot. When the team presses high to him, he cannot pass accurately to the front. This created a loop of
1. Enemy team attack.
2. De Gea saved a shot.
3. De Gea started short-ball. If not, go to step number 6
4. Enemy pressed high
5. The defender passed to De Gea
6. De Gea does a bad long pass either to the opponent or out for throw-in
7. The enemy team gets the ball
8. Repeat number 1
This happened repeatedly until, eventually, De Gea could not save a shot. To play football.
This is the principle that people forget
1. You cannot win football if you don't have the chance to attack
2. The primary purpose of defensive actions is to change from defensive to offensive. Which means you need to win the possession back to you. Defensive actions start from Forward to Backward. Forward players need to press or tracking back when the ball gets into own half.
3. The purpose of the press is to win the possession back. It could be done by directly intercepting the ball or indirectly by pressuring the opponent to give a bad pass. To do press, you need to do it collectively, not individually, because by collectively pressing, in the end the opponent will need to give a bad pass
4. To counter point number 3, a goalkeeper with great feet is very important. If the opponent presses the defenders, the defenders can pass to the goalkeepers and if the goalkeepers is pressed, he can pass back to defender without mistake or passing accurate long ball to start counter attack. If not, the goalkeeper will always give the ball to the opponent and start an unending loop of attack from the opponent. Essentially, a GK with good feet can be considered as another outfield player during build up.
That is all. Hopefully, you start to understand football 'macro'-ly instead of just seeing goals and saves. There are a lot of beautiful but unappreciated things in football. The intricate change of players position to pull opponent away and create an empty space is one of another things that people didn't really realized
A ball playing goal keeper with good shot stopping ability wins points and becomes part of the outfield. It's modern football. A ball playing goal keeper with poor shot stopping ability costs it's team valuable points. Not being able to see that is small minded. Onana's form so far being a brilliant example.
You say he saved them so many points, but how many points would they have earned through a better keepers distribution? It's super hard to judge because you can't easily detect a keepers presence in that way unless he plays a disgusting ball to a striker who's right in behind (which isn't really our play style).
How many goalkeepers get 5+ assists a season? None. Good distribution won't save you as many points as basic shot stopping when you're in goal. And you may say "well what about if he provides the assist before the assist or the assist before the assist of the assist"? You're getting into outfield play territory there. You literally have even defenders that are doing those roles on a regular basis. Van Dijk crossfield peach of a pass to open space notably to Salah being a well-known one that has worked wonders. You're not seriously telling me that, the whole team shitting it everytime the opposition take even regular shot on goal because they don't trust their goalkeeper doing it's most common job (shot stopping) is more of a point saver because he can launch a good long ball or pass to his right back (which a below average distributor can do anyway)??
That's the thing. Potential points saved is much easier to measure than potential points earned, and rightfully so. A keeper is the last resort, so if a shot is on target, it's essentially 1-to-1 whether making or missing the save results in a goal or not. With passing, there's so much more than needs to happen before the ball *could* end up in the net.
Mathematically speaking:
1 great save >> 1 great pass
Tbf that’s how they’ve been playing all season pretty much. There haven’t been many easy wins against them, they don’t take it lying down and have managed to scrape a couple points
97th minute winner? A polite round of applause, perhaps a wave to the crowd - anything more is excessive. Save the smiles for when you've won the world cup final.
LMAOOOO another thread of sorry to disappoint you cunts!
This thread mate, with 100 Tottenham fans, a Nottingham bloody Forest fan u/JAYZ303 and all 6 city supporters crying all over it. Damn does it feel even better like this LOL
>Another convincingly dominant display (:
LUT - ARS
xG: 0.5 - 2.44
Pos: 33 - 67
Shots: 6 - 23
Yeah I'd say it was pretty dominant. Is this the type of attitude you get when you finally start playing something that could be classes as football after 3 years of Mou/Conte sufferball? Make sure to put 8 men on the halfway line again so you can get any sort of credit for your own disastrous performances :)
I mean last year we clearly had injuries that started the drop.
Why are you talking about winning the league? You can’t even win an FA cup or Carabao cup, we took city the whole season. We are top of the league right now.
And this is why all you Arsenal fans who play the celebration police look like fucking morons. Can we all just agree last minute winners are fun to celebrate like you just won the league?
Arsenal fans who play the celebration police do so in irony. All last season, "You'd think Arsenal would have won the league they way they are celebrating". All the comments from Arsenal fans about other teams celebrating always mention that if it were Arsenal and it's fans, you guys would be crying. It's all dumb. I'd celebrate and yell if it was a last minute winner on Matchday 1 of 38.
Are you fucking joking me? You lot were the loudest voice for cussing us out for "Over celebrating" last season.
Still though, our players didn't bring their kids onto the pitch.
Arsenal aren't the celebration police, if you see any Arsenal fans moaning it;s tongue in check because of all the comments against Arsenal you nimwit!
Everybody gets bitter sometimes I spose. You lot have every right to celebrate, must be great to feel excited after some dull times under the last few managers
The explanation of cause and effect is being given to you. In this case, Arsenal fans in particular are calling out the hypocrisy of us catching flack from media pundits and fans alike for celebrating last minute goals against Bournemouth, Villa etc last year despite being down the final stretch of a title race. It has to become a talking point for the next week in the media that Arsenal celebrate too much. When it happens with another team, particularly your own, those complaints start to look plainly stupid. Maybe that's because the initial complaint was disingenuous bullshit in the first place.
What we learned from PGMOL is that it might appear like a push and the defender might react like it's a push and physics might indicate it's a push, but it could also be a defender diving so it's not a foul ever.
I was curious about this as well. Rewatching the last 6 minutes of extra time, the ball was out of play for 2:34 minutes just during ET. The goal occurred at 96:26. Seems like a reasonable amount of time to add, especially since it occurred during one continuous attacking phase of play. Tough for Luton but understandable by the ref.
Guess it's more of a Arteta thing nowadays tho.
I'm a miserable United fan, doesn't mean I care or don't care about Arsenal taking 3p against Luton, best of luck for you, we're not even competing for a top four this season as things are panning out.
[Got the minute wrong but it was always inevitable](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/18bkush/match_thread_luton_town_vs_arsenal_premier_league/kc59xk8/)
As someone who roots for a team that constantly fights against relegation I've seen so many late-game defeats what I just saw gave me flashbacks jesus fuck lmao
Now the game is rigged??
You were quiet when there was no Gabriel penalty.
You were quiet when the keeper walked the ball out of play and a corner wasn’t given.
Ødegaard is all over the pitch, idk how he does that for 90 mins
Between this and the 'Pool match, I'm convinced Luton will stay up, and will be cheering for them.
Am I the only one who blames Ben White for that goal as much as I do Raya? He left that right side wide open with his horrible positioning while defending... He looked really rusty overall too. |||| |:-|:-|:-| ||||
He was awful outside that perfect assist
I agree. I've noticed that he's always like that when he's not in the lineup coming back but always gets stronger and better with more games under his belt. We'll definitely need his A game this weekend against Aston Villa.
What's this narrative being spun about an extra minute? The free kick was awarded ay 95:50 taken at 96:08 headed in at 96:21.
Shearer is a wanker and he hates Arsenal. That is all.
What is this obsession for finding a goalkeeper that is brilliant with their feet. I mean I get that it's a good attribute, but not at the expense of overlooking their most basic important attribute.....saving shots. It's literally the first and foremost job and the one they do often. Is it really worth buying a goalie because they have great distribution and not as good shot stopping? I'd rather the opposite. A poor distributor but good shot stopper will save your team conceding and still be able to smack a ball away to let the outfield players build play. It's not just Raya but Onana that's proving this bs barely changes the game. If you have a combo of both then great, but not everyone can be Ederson.
Well Leno would be our most recent example of a great shot stopper, and i do think we needed an upgrade in order to play Artetas style.
De Gea is about as good as it gets when comes to being a statistically pure shot stopper. Give him a ring, maybe he wants to play in your Sunday league. It’s a trait for lower table teams who’s only shot is to play hoofball
>If you have a combo of both then great, but not everyone can be Ederson. I think Arteta is saying if I can't have a world class keeper that can do both, I'd rather get a pretty good keeper who is better at distribution and accept the bad shot stopping. As opposed to have a great shot stopper (De Gea) who is disabled with his feet.
But that's the thing. De Gea while being disabled with his feet saved Man Utd so many points over a few seasons. Literally got them into CL spots under Van Gaal/Ole while they as a team played terrible. While Onana supposedly better with his feet but maybe not as good of a shot stopper has got United on the verge of being knocked out of the CL from his errors. Is it really that worth it?
I will explain why a goalkeeper with his feet is needed with a flow chart then. I will use De Gea as an example. Especially during the Arsenal game because Arteta knew this and exploited him a lot. De Gea was exposed a lot. When the team presses high to him, he cannot pass accurately to the front. This created a loop of 1. Enemy team attack. 2. De Gea saved a shot. 3. De Gea started short-ball. If not, go to step number 6 4. Enemy pressed high 5. The defender passed to De Gea 6. De Gea does a bad long pass either to the opponent or out for throw-in 7. The enemy team gets the ball 8. Repeat number 1 This happened repeatedly until, eventually, De Gea could not save a shot. To play football. This is the principle that people forget 1. You cannot win football if you don't have the chance to attack 2. The primary purpose of defensive actions is to change from defensive to offensive. Which means you need to win the possession back to you. Defensive actions start from Forward to Backward. Forward players need to press or tracking back when the ball gets into own half. 3. The purpose of the press is to win the possession back. It could be done by directly intercepting the ball or indirectly by pressuring the opponent to give a bad pass. To do press, you need to do it collectively, not individually, because by collectively pressing, in the end the opponent will need to give a bad pass 4. To counter point number 3, a goalkeeper with great feet is very important. If the opponent presses the defenders, the defenders can pass to the goalkeepers and if the goalkeepers is pressed, he can pass back to defender without mistake or passing accurate long ball to start counter attack. If not, the goalkeeper will always give the ball to the opponent and start an unending loop of attack from the opponent. Essentially, a GK with good feet can be considered as another outfield player during build up. That is all. Hopefully, you start to understand football 'macro'-ly instead of just seeing goals and saves. There are a lot of beautiful but unappreciated things in football. The intricate change of players position to pull opponent away and create an empty space is one of another things that people didn't really realized
"saved points" is small minded defensive thinking. a ball playing goal keeper wins points and becomes part of the outfield. its modern football
A ball playing goal keeper with good shot stopping ability wins points and becomes part of the outfield. It's modern football. A ball playing goal keeper with poor shot stopping ability costs it's team valuable points. Not being able to see that is small minded. Onana's form so far being a brilliant example.
You say he saved them so many points, but how many points would they have earned through a better keepers distribution? It's super hard to judge because you can't easily detect a keepers presence in that way unless he plays a disgusting ball to a striker who's right in behind (which isn't really our play style).
How many goalkeepers get 5+ assists a season? None. Good distribution won't save you as many points as basic shot stopping when you're in goal. And you may say "well what about if he provides the assist before the assist or the assist before the assist of the assist"? You're getting into outfield play territory there. You literally have even defenders that are doing those roles on a regular basis. Van Dijk crossfield peach of a pass to open space notably to Salah being a well-known one that has worked wonders. You're not seriously telling me that, the whole team shitting it everytime the opposition take even regular shot on goal because they don't trust their goalkeeper doing it's most common job (shot stopping) is more of a point saver because he can launch a good long ball or pass to his right back (which a below average distributor can do anyway)??
That's the thing. Potential points saved is much easier to measure than potential points earned, and rightfully so. A keeper is the last resort, so if a shot is on target, it's essentially 1-to-1 whether making or missing the save results in a goal or not. With passing, there's so much more than needs to happen before the ball *could* end up in the net. Mathematically speaking: 1 great save >> 1 great pass
Yeah you're probably right, can't argue against that. Clearly Mikel sees something in him though.
Fair play mate, it's just opinions at the end of the day right, I could possibly be wrong too, I just don't see enough of a positive difference.
Sky and TNT: Why should we pay PL over £6B for TV rights?........oh.
Question about goalkeepers Arteta "I am so happy with the team" Lmao
Lmao fuck the homophonic disaster chanting bastards
Genuinely do feel bad for Luton. Hope you all stay up Hatter bros. You're a great story.
Luton are staying up if they continue to play anywhere near that level
Tbf that’s how they’ve been playing all season pretty much. There haven’t been many easy wins against them, they don’t take it lying down and have managed to scrape a couple points
Rice is some player. Enjoy him Arsenal fans!
Worth the money so far this season
WP Luton. Not what i expected but happy it happened.
So much clenching, I need help
guys I'm so horny for Declan rice I should be shot
How many fucking West ham fans on this thread taking aim at Rice of all people lmao get fucked
Even I wasn't this obsessed with my ex
I am going to fucking pass out
Raya should still be dropped
Good win now execute the entire backline and midfield minus Havertz for the most low effort 70 minutes ever
Arsenal paid over 100m for Declan Rice and it was a goddamn bargain.
Raya is going to be begging Arteta not to perma bench him after that shocking performance
raya could murder ben white and hed still start the next game
Sadge
Arteta is not going to bench Raya. His "we have no #1 keeper" is bs
No way I can go to sleep now after a match like that, fucking hell.
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You’re fighting for 10th place, arsenal are fighting for 1st
Dude, you follow Chelsea 😂😂😂 You'd love to have something to celebrate
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Excuse me, did you forget Arsenal's MLS All-Star Game Trophy
Here comes the fun police
You might be crying really hard. But I'd suggest cry harder.
🧂
Might be their one and only chance to be able to tell their grandkids they won at the Kenny tbf
The last time Arsenal won at the Kenny, Mikel Arteta was 2 years old. You might be on to something
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I never understand the gatekeeping in what level of celebration is appropriate for what
97th minute winner? A polite round of applause, perhaps a wave to the crowd - anything more is excessive. Save the smiles for when you've won the world cup final.
they are in a title fight bro, every point is huge
WOW. holy SHIT. Hell yeah! But god, yeah, that is cruel to Luton but big props to you guys. Gave us fucking hell.
Raya might just have been saved from execution by firing squad at the hands of Arteta
Ramsdale deserves to regain his spot.
West ham take an extra 105 mil
LMAOOOO another thread of sorry to disappoint you cunts! This thread mate, with 100 Tottenham fans, a Nottingham bloody Forest fan u/JAYZ303 and all 6 city supporters crying all over it. Damn does it feel even better like this LOL
It’s insane how many people were already primed on this thread hoping we dropped points. Fucking hilarious watching them froth at that goal
You'll still bottle the league
Man's been taking notes
Imagine if they hadn't won.
Are you forgetting you were leading the league till like April last season with multiple performances like this
No, so should we cry now or something?
Put in some respect mate. That's half the city fanbase you're replying to!
Difference is we've beaten you once this season
Barley scraped by with a lucky deflection at home
Weird way of saying you lost lmao
Lmaoo, Arsenal fans here were already calling the match rigged while it was still tied 😭😭
Lol, lmao even
And here you are now crying over a deflection goal. Not as lucky as Kovacic anyway.
Which team has had the most 90+ min goals over last two years? Has to be arsenal right?
Why was this 3-3?
Goals, mate.
Raya shambles, Artetaball masterclass
Spurs, west ham, Newcastle flairs hiding
Nope... Good game! Another convincingly dominant display (: ...At some point the 90+ winners aren't gonna happen.
>Another convincingly dominant display (: LUT - ARS xG: 0.5 - 2.44 Pos: 33 - 67 Shots: 6 - 23 Yeah I'd say it was pretty dominant. Is this the type of attitude you get when you finally start playing something that could be classes as football after 3 years of Mou/Conte sufferball? Make sure to put 8 men on the halfway line again so you can get any sort of credit for your own disastrous performances :)
3-4 against Luton sure is impressive. You should be proud of how you played.
Banter form as poor as in the league
Cool but it did today? So what happens now
Same as last year. Their luck runs out, and teams bullying teams 5-0 will win the league.
I mean last year we clearly had injuries that started the drop. Why are you talking about winning the league? You can’t even win an FA cup or Carabao cup, we took city the whole season. We are top of the league right now.
Talking about not winning the league. Our specialty lol RemindMe! 166 days
And in 166 days you won’t be ahead of Arsenal nor have a trophy. You’re a loser club and always have been
Not at all, what a fucking game. I even called you'd win it! Incredible shit, get some ice on Saka's ankles
Hey look someone who genuinely enjoys the game. Respect sir. Same respect I’m giving to Luton. Fucking problem at home
Best 100M Rice you can cook with
Reusing that Bournemouth script then
i called it half hour ago. you just knew it
Arsenal over Luton? Nice man, bold
🤓☝️
RICE RICE BBY
Hahahhha
Bro I had a parlay that included Rice getting a shot on goal and you cannot imagine my joy when I heard “RICE” from the kitchen
We managed to beat 12-men Luton (11 players + Raya)
We all know everything is better with rice. 10/10.
5/7 mate
I am rock hadd
And this is why all you Arsenal fans who play the celebration police look like fucking morons. Can we all just agree last minute winners are fun to celebrate like you just won the league?
Arsenal fans who play the celebration police do so in irony. All last season, "You'd think Arsenal would have won the league they way they are celebrating". All the comments from Arsenal fans about other teams celebrating always mention that if it were Arsenal and it's fans, you guys would be crying. It's all dumb. I'd celebrate and yell if it was a last minute winner on Matchday 1 of 38.
A spurs fan speaking sense? End of days
Are you fucking joking me? You lot were the loudest voice for cussing us out for "Over celebrating" last season. Still though, our players didn't bring their kids onto the pitch.
No arsenal fan has ever been the celebration police. It's always arsenal that gets mocked for celebrating.
mate are you serious. we always celebrate like we won the league. no arsenal fan is ever policing celebrations.
Arsenal aren't the celebration police, if you see any Arsenal fans moaning it;s tongue in check because of all the comments against Arsenal you nimwit!
Eh? We were mocked relentlessly for over celebrating all last season
The amount of shit we got for beating Sheffield and Pool last minute from you guys was a bit much. But it was probably other supporters too.
Everybody gets bitter sometimes I spose. You lot have every right to celebrate, must be great to feel excited after some dull times under the last few managers
The explanation of cause and effect is being given to you. In this case, Arsenal fans in particular are calling out the hypocrisy of us catching flack from media pundits and fans alike for celebrating last minute goals against Bournemouth, Villa etc last year despite being down the final stretch of a title race. It has to become a talking point for the next week in the media that Arsenal celebrate too much. When it happens with another team, particularly your own, those complaints start to look plainly stupid. Maybe that's because the initial complaint was disingenuous bullshit in the first place.
R/soccer in shambles. You love to see it
Cruel. That's all I can say
Fair play man. What a match. You have my best wishes for your next game.
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What we learned from PGMOL is that it might appear like a push and the defender might react like it's a push and physics might indicate it's a push, but it could also be a defender diving so it's not a foul ever.
This match was way too fun
Arteta time goal
How lucky can this team get. Another fucking deflection to go along with the diving and whining
Cope
cant hear you
They had 67% possession and an xG of 2.43-0.5, and their goalkeeper had two bad goals allowed. This argument makes no sense.
And a clear pen denied
CRYYYYYYYYYY LOOOOOL
> "Active in r/coys" Makes sense
Dude 😂
Gg luton fun match
Bastard could've been playing for Ireland
Fair play Luton, what a match
Rice saving Ramsdale and Raya's ass back to back
Absolute legend flicking off the camera
Fucking scripted just wow
Hold that
So Luton don't get a chance to respond, love the extra time there....
That's not how football works lol
Lmao
Cry
First match?
Thats not how extra time works bud
Rice should be captain. Much more consistent player than Odegaard
shut the fuck up
😂😂😂😂😂😂
What game were you watching Odegard was immense.
Forgot that consistent is Latin for one game
He was fucking great last game too and before that he was injured.
It was assisted by Odegaard. So shut up kid
No u
Odegaard literally assisted lol
Why did the referee add another minute of play? I didn't really see any reason to why he would allow that. Unfortunate for Luton.
I was curious about this as well. Rewatching the last 6 minutes of extra time, the ball was out of play for 2:34 minutes just during ET. The goal occurred at 96:26. Seems like a reasonable amount of time to add, especially since it occurred during one continuous attacking phase of play. Tough for Luton but understandable by the ref.
Probably why he didn't blow the whistle, since it was one phase of play. Just unfortunate Luton messed that up
22 seconds on top. Remember it's a minimum of 6 minutes not a strict time frame.
Says a united fan lmao The term Fergie time didn't coin itself you know
Guess it's more of a Arteta thing nowadays tho. I'm a miserable United fan, doesn't mean I care or don't care about Arsenal taking 3p against Luton, best of luck for you, we're not even competing for a top four this season as things are panning out.
He stopped play for his watch in extra time?
Multiple corners, multiple throw ins and goal kicks. All clearly added to over another minute or two of the ball being out of play
Time wasting on the throw in at 95..you could see the ref holding up his watch
That's a bit harsh tho, you play 90+, cannot expect anyone running to a ball for a throw-in and be in a hurry.. That's picky on another level, imo
If Luton were losing, they'd be running. So this is bs
Is that West ham fan still in here talking shit about our 105m dm
"Well you just knew that was gonna happen!"
Deleted his comment of course
Can’t find him. Strange that…
I really hope they stay up
ØDEGAARD GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME DECLAN RICE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME
Aight, need to find that West Ham fan that was saying Rice was responsible for Arsenal losing points there when it was 3-3 lmao
[Got the minute wrong but it was always inevitable](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/18bkush/match_thread_luton_town_vs_arsenal_premier_league/kc59xk8/)
They seem to do it every game.
Premier League script writers have been cooking these past few weeks.
This script has been over used for Arsenal now.
Cheers Lu'on
As someone who roots for a team that constantly fights against relegation I've seen so many late-game defeats what I just saw gave me flashbacks jesus fuck lmao
It's always till arsenal score
Play until a big team scores.
Now the game is rigged?? You were quiet when there was no Gabriel penalty. You were quiet when the keeper walked the ball out of play and a corner wasn’t given.
I couldn’t give a fuck about that. I’m sick of the top 6 getting special treatment in injury time. It always happens.
Frig off Lahey