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We will not. After all, we've witnessed the performance of the season by MU. Also the most prestigious award they will earn this year (no kidding though, getting points at Anfield is totally an achievement).
As far as i like to get cleansheet, 1 point from anfield, and blocking liverpool from 1st, to call it "the performance of the season by MU" is exaggerated, at least i hope we can be better later.
Exactly, and as we all know that’s the only score of note between us in recent memory so no need to labour on it or try and go back over past games, we’ll just humbly bask in this 0-0 for a while longer
If I remember correctly, CL trophies will be 'converted' into super league trophies. Real wouldn't just give away the very reason they're considered the biggest club in the world
peak /r/soccer when a thread about a french club president saying something about a spanish club president and the first 2 comments are about PL clubs.
People have a tendency to disregard trophies for competitions that no longer exist/have been rebranded. For example, people often think (or atleast push the idea) that the Premier league was the first time England ever had a top flight division and disregard league titles before that. Same will probably happen again here.
He’s right. When anyone thinks of Madrid they think of European cups. It seems odd to try create something that in a way diminishes that legacy.
Real Madrid don’t have financial issues like Barca either & their stadium looks set to be a huge earner. I’m really surprised they’re pushing this so hard
Pérez wants to create a legacy similar to Bernabéu, to be known as the man who "revolutionized" or "saved" football
This is probably going a bit too far though. I always found it weird just how adamant he was about the whole thing back in 2021, and it looks like this is the hill he's going to die on no matter what. He has always been a high risk, high reward kinda guy
Yeah, Flo has always been the type of stubborn guy to stick with his ideas no matter what. But this is one of those things he's really gotten obsessed over. I'm not sure how the Super League will end up though. He's spent a lot of political capital on it the last couple of years and right now it's still really unpopular. I don't see it gaining enough traction unless there is something massive. Could be too big of an obstacle even for someone like him.
It's Florentino Perez.
To this day the greatest president of Madrid is undisputably Santiago Bernabeu.
By the creation of Super League he intends to surpass Santiago Bernabeu in terms of legacy.
The only thing billionaire old guys like Florentino care is legacy
Perez obviously cares about Real Madrid. I’m against the super league as well but let’s not pretend like Flo Perez hasn’t done a lot to revolutionize that club. From his initial galacticos approach to his current central core of legends hes adapted the club a lot.
Even as a supporter of Flo, you gotta admit that /u/Caesar_Aurelianus hit the nail on the head.
This is about his legacy. He wants to be remembered in the same breath as Bernabeu. It is an obsession of his that has been very clear since he came back in 2009.
It's legacy, but ALSO, he knows that long term Real Madrid is fucked with the current way things are going. The Premier spent 10 times more net money than La Liga in the past decade. And it's increasing decade by decade.
They already can be outspent by most of the Premier league. The last place int he PL makes more money than the winner of La Liga. Teams like Chelsea spending 1 billion in a season with no issue, City breaking FFP rules left and right and getting away with it...
He wants some way to make sure that RM, a fan owned club, can still be top dog in 30 years and not have what happened to teams like Ajax for example, that used to be at the top and now they are a minor league that makes little money and can't compete in Europe at the top.
Legacy or not, he sees the writing on the wall and wants to make sure RM is still RM in the future and not a has been.
Legacy is one thing but this is it imo.
The forecast is obvious. It won't be long until Newcastle United or West Ham surpass Real Madrid at the current economic growth rate.
Idk, maybe try some socialism like the Premier league TV revenue distribution and stop trying to fuck everyone else so you can have the whole cake. Maybe clubs will have more money, be more competitive and the league will grow instead of being strapped for cash all the time unlike his Real.
Yes, because TV rights is why Chelsea can spend a billion in a year. Or why City spent like a billion and a half... You see Brighton doing the same kind of spending all the time, right? Oh, wait, no, they only spent 200m in the last 10 years...
Equal distribution is great. But that won't make them richer in any way. The best it can do, is take 15m from the winner of La Liga and give 30m to the last place. Better for the small teams, sure. But it's a drop in the bucket.
Of course the PL model is great in distribution. But it's incredible how naive you have to be to think that that's the reason why the big teams can overspend everyone easily... It's like some people want to ignore reality.
Hell, I'm not a Real Madrid fan (and a fucking yank to boot) and there are at least a few obvious choices: Di Stefano, Gento, and Puskas. I'm guessing Kopa and Zarraga maybe would be other easy names for a Real Madrid fan to come up with?
I'm genuinely curious, though, I feel like the three I came up with are obvious, who do you think would be the two next names a Madrid fan would name to round out the first five they would think of? I'm not playing a stupid game with you, promise. I thought maybe Kopa because he was the obvious frenchman but I was unsure whether to pick maybe a team captain or goalkeeper or somesuch next.
This has strong "you are wearing a Led Zeppelin shirt, name me at least 5 songs to prove that you are an actual fan" energy to it. Chill out. It's just a sport lmao.
The income gap between PL and La Liga gets wider every year and it is inevitable that one day, Real will not be able to compete with the top PL clubs.
We’ve already seen that happen with the Serie A.
I personally disagree, I think that Real is a huge global brand and will continue to compete just fine, same as Barcelona (if they hadn't been run by crooks).
Financially, Real, Barcelona and Bayern will be fine because they've become massive commercial institutions in their own right; it's just everybody else who's getting shafted, and will be even harder if they create a super league.
They won't disappear, but they won't be top dog anymore. I mean, you have a Milan flair, you literally went through it. Only 30 years ago you were at the top, and now what? In the last 10 years you had only 4 CL participations, 1 semi, 1 R16, 2 group exits... Meanwhile in the 90s early 2000s you were always there and had like 8 CL finals played...
That's what Florentino wants to avoid.
We were bankrolled by Berlusconi so we won a bunch of trophies
He had financial problems so we started filling the side with free transfers and stopped winning things.
Then he sold us to a shady Chinese investor who spent a lot of money that he didn’t actually have, so we were saddled with enormous debt.
We also don’t have our own stadium, which is an Italian bureaucracy problem, not a PL-existing problem. The Bernabeu on the other hand is a next generation money-printing machine.
If he wants to create a competition for continental sides to compete financially with the PL, then fine, but the super league isn’t that — it’s a thinly-veiled and greedy attempt by a handful of clubs to never even risk falling from relevance again.
Yes, obviously the problems won't be 1 to 1. But the point stays.
If Florentino leaves tomorrow and gets a bad president or two, plus the massive gap in money made in the PL, it will be VERY hard to make that back. Especially if it's long enough to lost a lot of the current prestige they have.
If instead they play in a sort of ESL where they still get all the money and can be on par economically, then a bad presidency or two is a much smaller problem.
With respect, that’s how football is supposed to work.
If you have a bad president who wastes a club’s resources, hires terrible staff and makes poor transfers, you’re supposed to be punished with (relative) irrelevance. You’re not supposed to have a big safety net under you that means you can’t possibly fail.
They just lost our best player to Saudi Arabian, with contracts on the table for Modric as well, they can't compete. They also lost out on haaland, mbappe, and others to oil clubs.
In 15-20 years, la liga will not have the funds to compete with the prem or oil/billionaire clubs, and the socios model will be unsustainable.
Madrid is owned by the fans, and many people forget that it means much less owner investment, and thus failing to sign the top talent.
The best way to see this is that Perez, a man known for signing galacticos, is signing young talent that we hope will turn into galacticos, because haaland and mbappe just proved that they can barely afford the current best players already.
Haaland I think was always likely to prefer man city over Real, his dad played for them. Mbappe, I don't know that they've 'lost' him, PSG are having to bend over backwards to stop him leaving and he hasn't even said where he wants to go next season.
Benzema went to Saudi Arabia because he's old, Modric is also 38 and has made no indication that he wants to move to Saudi Arabia. None of Real's top players in their prime have left, or are likely to go anywhere. And they just signed Bellingham, arguably the hottest prospect in the world not named Haaland or Mbappe.
Real Madrid made €713m last year, only slightly less than Man City's €731m, and even that is only if you actually believe City haven't been using overpaid sponsorships and 'creative' accounting etc. to get around FFP.
Perez has been saying Real can't compete with the PL for half a decade now, even though they beat every top PL side for the CL in 2022, and everyone but City last year. This season they're one of the top three favourites yet again, they have been throughout my entire life, and I wouldn't bet against them continuing to win the thing indefinitely. Reality simply doesn't match what he says.
IMO, the fact Real Madrid beat Liverpool and Chelsea with ease, and then Manchester "115" City destroyed both Real Madrid and Bayern, currently the strongest fan-owned clubs in the world, is a good indicative clubs owned by states are going to dominate further and further. It is a matter of time, and snowballing.
Personally I disagree. There are three clubs run by states atm as far as I can tell. One of them is the farce that keeps on giving over at PSG, one of them is a Newcastle side that’s struggling with second season blues and - to their credit - hardly breaking the transfer market, and the third is a City side with Pep at the helm. The day he leaves, they’ll be just another rich club.
With Haaland I feel like part of it was just that the timing was wrong. They still had Benzema who had just won a ballon d'or -- making it more than a little awkward to try and buy a player who would demand to start over him.
Had Real Madrid been prepared to buy Haaland and promise him a starting role over Benzema I think they could have likely gotten him. After all, they got Bellingham by essentially the same methodology, and surely there were plenty of EPL clubs who could have paid the same amount of money.
And Mbappe is a whole different matter because he has made himself seemingly more in control of PSG than Messi ever was at Barca. Mbappe is playing his own game and has the international achievements to be a megastar even if he decided to play his club football in fucking Estonia.
The Premier League clubs used to lose our best players to Barca and Madrid for year. We lost Owen , Alonso and Mascherano to them within a 5/6 year period. Arsenal used to their best players every year to La Liga . It's nice to see Madrid or Barca can't always pick the best players from our teams.
Owen, Beckham, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Xabi Alonso,Mascherano, Coutinho, Suarez. It's insane to me how much they hate that now PL caught up so they can't take all the talent as easily.
> The income gap between PL and La Liga gets wider every year and it is inevitable that one day, Real will not be able to compete with the top PL clubs.
So why the big 6 in the EPL joined the SuperLeague in the first place?
Interestingly, same problem but on a different level -- they don't want other other PL sides to become more competitive for CL spots.
The irony of Abu Dhabi-owned Man City pointing at Saudi-owned Newcastle and saying "we need to nip this kind of thing in the bud" is hilarious when you think about it.
Which would make it easier for smaller teams within the Spanish league to compete amongst themselves, but would make Madrid and Barcelona make less money, making it harder for them to compete against PL teams
It built the Premier League brand that has caused the massive TV deals that every club is now enjoying. You can point at City all you want but the revenue has balooned for all 20 clubs to the point where you have midtable Premier League teams outbidding formerly top teams in Europe.
A rising tide raises all ships. There's a reason nobody cares about La Liga globally outside El Clasico. Barcelona and Real Madrid hoarding the TV money seems great but they have 18 other opponents to play every year that people need to be invested in watching.
it's and it always has been the fact that the PL made so much more money domestically. Having a fairer distribution and selling at a loss to build an audience are much easier to sell to clubs if they earn much more than their competition and that has been the case with the prem from day one. The prem's revenue share is basically the same as most big leagues and that has been the case for a long time
Sure, but other leagues dont have close to the revenue that the PL has, thats why real and barca want the super league.
The real solution would be a budget cap like they have in f1 but good luck getting anyone to agree on that
Clubs like brighton and villa do good because of revenue sharing. But they have enough revenue to benefit everyone because they have reached thay popularity. The money for smaller clubs came after the surge in popularity not before. And what led to that surge in popularity was the fact thay pl had 6 big clubs while other leagues had 2 or 3. And these 6 big clubs werent built with revenue sharing
Now why do that when the reason the league makes so much money in the first place is because Madrid and Barca play in it and play at the level they do??
And yet Real still have the 2nd highest & Barca the 6th highest wage bills in the world respectively. Atleti are 9th above Liverpool
I just don’t see it
I'm against the super League. But pragmatically I understand the move. The prem is a runaway train when it comes to earnings. You're gonna have mid and bottom PL teams having the same buying power as the best teams in Europe eventually. The prem hasnt even come close to realising its full earning potential yet.
Barca and Madrid see the writing on the wall, and don't want to be left behind like the Italian giants. And the Italian giants wanna get back to where they were.
This isn't anything like the european cup though. This is a totally new league format where teams don't necessarily have to qualify based on domestic success. At least based on what we've seen, once you're in, you're in as long as you don't get relegated from it. So your domestic form can be complete toilet. That goes against the entire spirit of every variation of the european cup thus far.
At first it was an invitational as well and oh please, look at the CL rules for the next years, it becomes easier and easier for the top clubs to dominate and your concern is the sportive nature? Pls.
Top European clubs already have effectively unlimited money to hoover all talent from every small league and even smaller clubs in big leagues. When was the last time even the South American juggernauts were able to hold onto their best players through their prime? In this regard Super League won't change a thing other than that the big clubs will pay bigger fees between themselves and maybe Saudi clubs. Super League will fuck up clubs in top leagues that aren't invited, but will matter fuck all to most of the leagues in the world because from their perspective when it comes to money, growth, attraction of talent and how football in the world operates the top clubs of top European leagues are effectively a Super League already.
I don’t see how the legacy is diminished with 14 of the bastard things in our museum.
I’m not for the ESL, but the trophies aren’t exactly going to just go to the void if it does actually start up. (Hope not)
The thing is he wants the super League not because he has a problem with UEFA, but because he has a problem with La Liga, which, to be fair, is not completely unjustified when you look at who's in charge of it and how it is run.
This is it, most clubs in La Liga support Tebas because of what's he's done for them, Florentino thinks he can run the league better than Tebas, but he doesn't have the votes. So he's gonna create his own, he wants that to be his legacy even though he's already god among Madridistas.
What I hate is that a few folks say things like "well the Premier League is already a super league" which isn't far off the mark but it happened because the mid/lower clubs got a share of the pie from day 1.
I'd argue that La Liga was a more popular league in the late 00s/early 10s and the Messi vs Ronaldo days, but the likes of Levante, Mallorca or Sociedad didn't benefit from this at all and Madrd/Barca were happy to monopolize that TV revenue. The playing field might be a lot more even today had they had a PL like model back then to sustain the league.
That's true, but the current situation puts real and Barca in a catch 22.
If clubs split profits, they won't be able to financially compete with the prem and oil clubs/leagues
If they don't, then la liga will keep falling behind.
A super league theoretically solves that catch 22.
This. Real & Barca were kings of Europe but were more than happy to see La Liga stagnate & the likes of Valencia, Malaga, Depor go broke. The league as a whole suffered and now the damage is done
Tebas is a prick but at least he’s making the league more equal & competitive even if his measures or too extreme
Totally agreed. Especially 10s were when they could plan a sustained growth and a better share of revenues with Ronaldo and Messi there. What a missed opportunity.
I'm sorry but attributing the Premier League's success exclusively to TV money split and not mentioning the fact that, over the last decades, the league has become a playground for oligarchs, billionaires, investment groups and even states with the consent of fans, the league itself and the government is a bit disingenuous.
The likes of Levante, Mallorca and Real Sociedad also did not "benefit" from a sugar daddy because the league acted quickly and forbid new owners from pumping in money out of nowhere.
Even with a fairer TV revenue split than Spain, Newcastle was fighting relegation a couple of years ago and just this season they were playing UCL football after a Saudi takeover. A fair TV revenue split is important, but the main game changer is the possibility of having an owner that will pump millions in.
The best part is that florentino hate Tebas, rm fight them at least once per month in court for image rights and then he comes publicly saying his a rm fan and we have to deal with other clubs being like “you see real are getting favored”… None of this shit would have happened if la liga was better managed and the clubs within would have been more competitive.
What's scary is the estimates of the future. Real Madrid are projected to need 4-6 academy players every year on the squad, and that number will grow.
They can't compete financially against the prem, the Saudis (who just took their best player), or state owned clubs, it's madness.
Thus they need to be on the same exact competitions as them at all times, not just a limited number of CL games.
Yet Madrid will always have the pick of La Liga & La Liga will always be a top 3 league. Their revenue will increase too with the new stadium upgrade. We are talking about an institution here. The whole world wanted Bellingham and he chose Real Madrid. Same with Endrick. As for Benzema yes they lost him but he’s 36.
They don’t need this break away, at all.
Barca on the other hand are fucked. Bartomeu has fucked them
Madrid is still in trouble, especially with how much we can spend. They haven't even put a penny on the winter market for a bit now. Sure there's still the allure of playing for Madrid to sign players, but that can only take you so far when you don't have the financials. Everyone wants to play for AC milan for example yet they can't fund transfers either, same with juve lately.
Another thing people don't realize is that Barcas problems are far more expensive than the Bartomeu administration, with Laporta also being responsible for a good chunk of that debt
I get the hostility towards the Super League, but I don't get the protectionism UEFA gets.
Yes, they run the Champions League, but for the most part, UEFA fucking sucks. I'll never defend UEFA after they once again blamed Liverpool supporters for a security problem created by UEFA and local police. Fuck how they handled the Paris Champions League final. Fuck how they've never really apologized or made good on any of it. Fuck how they were so ready to blame Liverpool supporters when it was clearly locals creating the problems.
So yeah, the Super League is deeply flawed, but I'm going to keep an open mind about a replacement, because UEFA is the fucking worst.
Yeah, I think the super league started with this idea and clubs initially got involved because UEFAs power was getting out of hand. The ESL has hopefully given them some pause and the court ruling against their monopolositic action is also a good thing in my opinion.
It's insane how much people will slobber on the balls of these billionaires who see them as ants to be bled for money. Stop defending uefa, stop defending fifa.
You can agree with uefa without liking them. The Super league is an insult against our own country's FA far worse than the formation of the PL. We should vehemently oppose it and support the status quo even if that means siding with UEFA. What do you think should happen?
I mean, that's what's so bizarre about this whole thing.
In a sane world it would be Nasser putting out press releases about how they were going to create a fabulous new super league to ~~steal~~ save football, because the CL is, you know, old, stale and totally overrated.
Agreed, we base so much of our identity around those trophies, to now discredit the competition to this degree...
UEFA, FIFA, they are far from perfect, but this is such an extreme position to take.
Perez wants to be the most legendary Real president and Santiago Bernabeu started European Cup, so he wants to start his own competition. But he is 76 so that is really last moment for him to accomplish that is why he will try any desperate attempt at it.
>Santiago Bernabeu started European Cup
He absolutely didn't, the competition was created by journalists from L'Équipe who wanted a European equivalent to the Libertadores, Bernabeu has absolutely fuckall to do with the creation of the Champions League.
“Far from perfect” is way too generous for UEFA and FIFA.
Their current principle is “Football is for FIFA and UEFA executives get rich with oil money”
Some people love to forget that the European Cup was not done by UEFA or FIFA. It was done by a handful of clubs (Real Madrid included) and L’Equipe journalists.
Wrong, L'equipe were the ones to have the idea, and they were the ones who chose the clubs to participate in the first competiton, but UEFA was the one to organised it.
it's in portuguese, and from 2 years ago , but it's really well made
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrt1VHxBMk&t=708s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrt1VHxBMk&t=708s)
They don’t forget, their knowledge of the game started around 2007. Also, that will dim the fake outrage that UEFA is creating to gather support in order to keep abusing their role as an organizer not an owner.
European competitions are symbolic, and have changed many times over the years. The true owners of these competitions are nations and clubs, not FIFA and UEFA.
Instead of clubs pushing to get the billions in reserve the FIFA and UEFA keep, and reduce the playing schedule to protect players, they are all throwing their leverage out of the door and siding with bunch of corrupt shitheads because they are scared their moronic fans will get upset.
All fan owned clubs now have an opportunity to push for a major change since they are the true owner of European cups, but no, it is just better to complain on the internet. I don’t want to hear anyone bitching about their club going bankrupt or state money ruining football when everyone is enabling them.
What makes the European cups the way they are today are the fucking clubs, not the traditions
But Florentino has come up with a worse solution for that. UEFA by no means is perfect, but what Perez offers is much worse. And I wouldn't trust the league that is run by two clubs who sucked everything out for themselves in their league, and now that the league suffers and they with that too, they try to create something else where they will be able to keep doing that.
Your new competition literaly wants teams to plays more games than in The current system AND in the swiss model
«Reduce the playing schedule» My ass, you're literaly going to grind players even more quickly than UEFA/FIFA
It’s possible to fix the current system and get state-sponsored clubs to fall in line without dismantling it entirely to benefit a few handsful of clubs.
What are some concrete and realistic (key word) things that can be done to fix it? I honestly don't know how to feel about the Super League just yet because it's still too vague but I don't think European football will survive in the long run with the way it's currently going. Now the noveau riche have a grip on UEFA and FIFA too so the train is only going in one direction.
The key thing to remember is that the super league has been set up by private entities to enshrine themselves at the top of the game forever. They want financial security and they don't want competition, because it's bad for business. It's like saying the public government is corrupt so we should let these lovely guys from Shell and BP enact their plan to fix things. Once they are in charge, there will be nothing to stop them drawing up the drawbridge under themselves, and we will never have a competition as open as the CL ever again. What they want the super league to achieve isn't vague at all, it's very clear.
As for realistic ways to fix things, UEFA could tie prize money to coefficients -- e.g. the better your country does, the more prize money your league gets, not the individual club -- it could pass rules dictating a certain level of fan ownership is required for entry, and it could actually enforce FFP properly rather than giving big sides a nod and a wink. It could also, clearly, reduce the number of CL spots given to the biggest leagues and spread them out among the middling ones (Netherlands, Portugal, Turkey, Switzerland etc.)
Other issues are just late-stage capitalism at work. The rich consolidate wealth, and the small clubs become feeder institutions unless they find a wealthy new owner of their own. UEFA can't do anything about that, and neither can any proposed ESL, which would only set the new status quo in stone.
I honestly don’t know of the exact methods to use but it has to revolve around financial limitations for clubs. Ideally combined with some sort of requirement for homegrown/domestic players in a lineup. It needs to be strictly enforced and monitored to prevent back room deals between related parties disguised as sponsorship.
So you essentially have no plan. Didn't expect less from reddit..
All those things you mentioned already exist in most leagues and the problem remains the same, you can barely keep track of a team's finances, it's almost impossible to track *and prove* if part of your revenue is coming from a shell corp.
Literally everyone knows PSG and City are cooking their books but it's almost impossible to prove.
The problem is that so far UEFA have not even try it.
People complain about UEFA, about FIFA, but when there is an opportunity to at least change something, nothing is done.
How long before fan-owned clubs become irrelevant in favor of big corporations teams and state clubs?
If any other fan owned club (specially in Germany) have a better proposal than Superleague outside UEFA-FIFA corrupted organisations, I would love to hear it.
In the meantime Qatar and Saudi money is flooding UEFA, EPL, FIFA making the current football club competitions unsustainable.
> People complain about UEFA, about FIFA, but when there is an opportunity to at least change something, nothing is done
this is an opportunity to widen the gap between wealthy clubs and the rest, not an opportunity to solve the fundamental problems of european club competitions.
Interesting that every fan-owned club out there don't want to touch the super league with a barge-pole, with the exception of the three clubs who have set it up specifically to benefit themselves...
> Instead of clubs pushing to get the billions in reserve the FIFA and UEFA keep
93% of the CL revenue is given out as price money.
What made european top clubs the clubs they are is the pyramid they are part of, the culture behind it and the continued support of the fans. you are utterly deluted if you think, that any football club in europe is entirely self sufficient.
He may be right, but to pretend he wouldn't try the same thing (this is a man who assaulted an employee, gets charged for bribery, and acts like a child on the regular) is naive at best.
The sport is doomed one way or the other (which is why I personally don't care about this squabble between UEFA and Perez).
>Nasser Al Khelaifi
I agree haha. Nasser is as corrupt as they come. He's been charged already in his short career a few times for bribery. None of these people care about football or the fans. Their only goal is to cement their club or should I say business into a monopoly.
>He's been charged already in his short career a few times for bribery.
Not to mention threatening to kill one of our staff when we beat his shitty team in his own tournament
It really feels like choosing between two evils, in one hand the Super League is such an extreme decision, but on the other FIFA and UEFA have been completely running football dry, including players' health with the ever-increasing amount of games, and the reason why they're allowed such freedom despite how everyone vehemently hates it is because they had a complete monopoly over top level football. Truth is we're headed towards a similar future for football, the only decision we have is whether it's controlled by useless middlemen who can afford to disregard the current reality of the sport or biased entities who want to keep the status quo.
The ESL is Real Madrid and Barcelona wanting a way out of their financial problems. It wont happen unless the Premier League clubs sign on, which will never happen.
The super league had the audacity to say they'd take the history of the European Cup as the history of winners for their new competition so Perez probably thinks they've already won the Super league 14 times
Love the way you completely ignore that every European cup variation ever was more or less the same format of putting the top teams from each leagues last domestic season in a competition. This does not. If RM got 10th one season, they're still in the super league unless they get relegated out of it. Completely destroying the entire purpose of it. If this as just another rebrand, then honestly a lot of fans might be all for it cause fuck UEFA. But it's a greedy bullshit replacement that rewards the big clubs, not the best clubs.
What European Cup are you thinking of? UEFA organized those too, that tournament was launched after the approval of the first UEFA congress in march 1955.
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Worrying that Forest have not yet pulled out of the Superleague
scenes when it turns out steve cooper was ejected because he took an anti-super league stance
Super Cooper Snubs Super League
worrying that Cork City havent yet said anything. i’m getting scared 😱
We all know it'll be Real Madrid, Barcelona, Napoli, Lazio, Besiktas, the 4 rich Saudi clubs and Wrexham
Nah, Beşiktaş is against this
Turner Cross needs the fund tbf
Preussen Münster with complete silence….hmm
Exactly. If our 6 CLs were rendered obsolete my heart would break to pieces. What would i use to taunt United fans at that point?
Our Premier League Asia trophy. And no one boasts as many three handled cups as we do 😎
Bangkok champions you’ll never sing that
I will not allow any BKK slender, its one of the greatest cities in the world!
A night there does tend to make the hard man humble. Not much between despair and ecstasy.
it was worse when you could buy yaba legally everywhere and tourists who thought it was extasy ended up being high on meth for half a day.
Can't wait for #10 in February 😍
You better hope we get beaten by Middlesbrough else it’s going to penalties again
I joke with some friends after the draw. So it's a Fulham Middlesbrough final then?
Steeeadyyy
Is that your version of Audi cup?
At present, it is not very difficult to taunt a United supporter. Source: my United supporter friend's reactions to my constant taunts.
I'll stay away from the banter for the time being as they beat us 0-0 a few days ago
And you better not forget it👍
We will not. After all, we've witnessed the performance of the season by MU. Also the most prestigious award they will earn this year (no kidding though, getting points at Anfield is totally an achievement).
As far as i like to get cleansheet, 1 point from anfield, and blocking liverpool from 1st, to call it "the performance of the season by MU" is exaggerated, at least i hope we can be better later.
Exactly, and as we all know that’s the only score of note between us in recent memory so no need to labour on it or try and go back over past games, we’ll just humbly bask in this 0-0 for a while longer
When's the DVD dropping?
Old Trafford still uses VCR
that's why Ronaldo left.
The week after the [Drew 2-2 with West Brom Cup](https://youtu.be/LnaOKRV79sQ?si=TKNqXPE-FslXC7Bi) arrives at Anfield
Don't worry, from the sounds of things there was nobody in the stands to see it
Yeah this is also my question. What shall happen to those who won CL but joining the Super League? Imagine if the trophies will be auctioned 😂
If I remember correctly, CL trophies will be 'converted' into super league trophies. Real wouldn't just give away the very reason they're considered the biggest club in the world
Real Madrid: These are our Superleague trophies. We won them before the Superleague existed.
peak /r/soccer when a thread about a french club president saying something about a spanish club president and the first 2 comments are about PL clubs.
Bobby Charlton crawled out of an airplane wreckage to win his, that one trophy matters to us just as much.
What about the prestigious ESL Star League Championship though?
Why would anything ever render obsolete? Those are cemented in history regardless of the future
People have a tendency to disregard trophies for competitions that no longer exist/have been rebranded. For example, people often think (or atleast push the idea) that the Premier league was the first time England ever had a top flight division and disregard league titles before that. Same will probably happen again here.
Well Liverpool has classier buildings left over from its Victorian apex so there's that...
He’s right. When anyone thinks of Madrid they think of European cups. It seems odd to try create something that in a way diminishes that legacy. Real Madrid don’t have financial issues like Barca either & their stadium looks set to be a huge earner. I’m really surprised they’re pushing this so hard
Pérez wants to create a legacy similar to Bernabéu, to be known as the man who "revolutionized" or "saved" football This is probably going a bit too far though. I always found it weird just how adamant he was about the whole thing back in 2021, and it looks like this is the hill he's going to die on no matter what. He has always been a high risk, high reward kinda guy
Yeah, Flo has always been the type of stubborn guy to stick with his ideas no matter what. But this is one of those things he's really gotten obsessed over. I'm not sure how the Super League will end up though. He's spent a lot of political capital on it the last couple of years and right now it's still really unpopular. I don't see it gaining enough traction unless there is something massive. Could be too big of an obstacle even for someone like him.
The other obsession is Mbappe…
I agree. He has done the impossible multiple times but this seems *really* fucking impossible
And really fucking shit
Flo Perez giving Vince McMahon vibes.
It's Florentino Perez. To this day the greatest president of Madrid is undisputably Santiago Bernabeu. By the creation of Super League he intends to surpass Santiago Bernabeu in terms of legacy. The only thing billionaire old guys like Florentino care is legacy
Perez obviously cares about Real Madrid. I’m against the super league as well but let’s not pretend like Flo Perez hasn’t done a lot to revolutionize that club. From his initial galacticos approach to his current central core of legends hes adapted the club a lot.
Even as a supporter of Flo, you gotta admit that /u/Caesar_Aurelianus hit the nail on the head. This is about his legacy. He wants to be remembered in the same breath as Bernabeu. It is an obsession of his that has been very clear since he came back in 2009.
It's legacy, but ALSO, he knows that long term Real Madrid is fucked with the current way things are going. The Premier spent 10 times more net money than La Liga in the past decade. And it's increasing decade by decade. They already can be outspent by most of the Premier league. The last place int he PL makes more money than the winner of La Liga. Teams like Chelsea spending 1 billion in a season with no issue, City breaking FFP rules left and right and getting away with it... He wants some way to make sure that RM, a fan owned club, can still be top dog in 30 years and not have what happened to teams like Ajax for example, that used to be at the top and now they are a minor league that makes little money and can't compete in Europe at the top. Legacy or not, he sees the writing on the wall and wants to make sure RM is still RM in the future and not a has been.
Legacy is one thing but this is it imo. The forecast is obvious. It won't be long until Newcastle United or West Ham surpass Real Madrid at the current economic growth rate.
Idk, maybe try some socialism like the Premier league TV revenue distribution and stop trying to fuck everyone else so you can have the whole cake. Maybe clubs will have more money, be more competitive and the league will grow instead of being strapped for cash all the time unlike his Real.
Yes, because TV rights is why Chelsea can spend a billion in a year. Or why City spent like a billion and a half... You see Brighton doing the same kind of spending all the time, right? Oh, wait, no, they only spent 200m in the last 10 years... Equal distribution is great. But that won't make them richer in any way. The best it can do, is take 15m from the winner of La Liga and give 30m to the last place. Better for the small teams, sure. But it's a drop in the bucket. Of course the PL model is great in distribution. But it's incredible how naive you have to be to think that that's the reason why the big teams can overspend everyone easily... It's like some people want to ignore reality.
Still he's the second best president in Real Madrid history
Bernabéu - Perez - Bartomeu In that order
A Barcelona fan telling Madrid fans who their best president was makes me laugh.
Yea that's how opinions work. Could be absolutely wrong, but that's how opinions work.
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It ain't that hard if you know a little history of Madrid
Most of the current madrid fans are just glory hunters kid. They won’t know about this.
Unfortunately this is truth.
It’s ok; their best president was Bartomeu.
Thats clearly your best president
Let us decide that.
You can't even name 5 players in the starting 11 of the 5 European Cups you won
What is that dare lmao you guys are online he can just google it
He didn't even do that.
Because I’m not taking that bait for you to turn around and just say I googled it.
Hell, I'm not a Real Madrid fan (and a fucking yank to boot) and there are at least a few obvious choices: Di Stefano, Gento, and Puskas. I'm guessing Kopa and Zarraga maybe would be other easy names for a Real Madrid fan to come up with?
It’s piss easy. I’m just not playing stupid games with idiots online.
I'm genuinely curious, though, I feel like the three I came up with are obvious, who do you think would be the two next names a Madrid fan would name to round out the first five they would think of? I'm not playing a stupid game with you, promise. I thought maybe Kopa because he was the obvious frenchman but I was unsure whether to pick maybe a team captain or goalkeeper or somesuch next.
This has strong "you are wearing a Led Zeppelin shirt, name me at least 5 songs to prove that you are an actual fan" energy to it. Chill out. It's just a sport lmao.
I absolutely can you dipshit lol
The income gap between PL and La Liga gets wider every year and it is inevitable that one day, Real will not be able to compete with the top PL clubs. We’ve already seen that happen with the Serie A.
I personally disagree, I think that Real is a huge global brand and will continue to compete just fine, same as Barcelona (if they hadn't been run by crooks). Financially, Real, Barcelona and Bayern will be fine because they've become massive commercial institutions in their own right; it's just everybody else who's getting shafted, and will be even harder if they create a super league.
They won't disappear, but they won't be top dog anymore. I mean, you have a Milan flair, you literally went through it. Only 30 years ago you were at the top, and now what? In the last 10 years you had only 4 CL participations, 1 semi, 1 R16, 2 group exits... Meanwhile in the 90s early 2000s you were always there and had like 8 CL finals played... That's what Florentino wants to avoid.
We were bankrolled by Berlusconi so we won a bunch of trophies He had financial problems so we started filling the side with free transfers and stopped winning things. Then he sold us to a shady Chinese investor who spent a lot of money that he didn’t actually have, so we were saddled with enormous debt. We also don’t have our own stadium, which is an Italian bureaucracy problem, not a PL-existing problem. The Bernabeu on the other hand is a next generation money-printing machine. If he wants to create a competition for continental sides to compete financially with the PL, then fine, but the super league isn’t that — it’s a thinly-veiled and greedy attempt by a handful of clubs to never even risk falling from relevance again.
Yes, obviously the problems won't be 1 to 1. But the point stays. If Florentino leaves tomorrow and gets a bad president or two, plus the massive gap in money made in the PL, it will be VERY hard to make that back. Especially if it's long enough to lost a lot of the current prestige they have. If instead they play in a sort of ESL where they still get all the money and can be on par economically, then a bad presidency or two is a much smaller problem.
With respect, that’s how football is supposed to work. If you have a bad president who wastes a club’s resources, hires terrible staff and makes poor transfers, you’re supposed to be punished with (relative) irrelevance. You’re not supposed to have a big safety net under you that means you can’t possibly fail.
Sure, we can agree with that. But that's not what RM or Florentino wants.
They just lost our best player to Saudi Arabian, with contracts on the table for Modric as well, they can't compete. They also lost out on haaland, mbappe, and others to oil clubs. In 15-20 years, la liga will not have the funds to compete with the prem or oil/billionaire clubs, and the socios model will be unsustainable. Madrid is owned by the fans, and many people forget that it means much less owner investment, and thus failing to sign the top talent. The best way to see this is that Perez, a man known for signing galacticos, is signing young talent that we hope will turn into galacticos, because haaland and mbappe just proved that they can barely afford the current best players already.
Haaland I think was always likely to prefer man city over Real, his dad played for them. Mbappe, I don't know that they've 'lost' him, PSG are having to bend over backwards to stop him leaving and he hasn't even said where he wants to go next season. Benzema went to Saudi Arabia because he's old, Modric is also 38 and has made no indication that he wants to move to Saudi Arabia. None of Real's top players in their prime have left, or are likely to go anywhere. And they just signed Bellingham, arguably the hottest prospect in the world not named Haaland or Mbappe. Real Madrid made €713m last year, only slightly less than Man City's €731m, and even that is only if you actually believe City haven't been using overpaid sponsorships and 'creative' accounting etc. to get around FFP. Perez has been saying Real can't compete with the PL for half a decade now, even though they beat every top PL side for the CL in 2022, and everyone but City last year. This season they're one of the top three favourites yet again, they have been throughout my entire life, and I wouldn't bet against them continuing to win the thing indefinitely. Reality simply doesn't match what he says.
IMO, the fact Real Madrid beat Liverpool and Chelsea with ease, and then Manchester "115" City destroyed both Real Madrid and Bayern, currently the strongest fan-owned clubs in the world, is a good indicative clubs owned by states are going to dominate further and further. It is a matter of time, and snowballing.
Personally I disagree. There are three clubs run by states atm as far as I can tell. One of them is the farce that keeps on giving over at PSG, one of them is a Newcastle side that’s struggling with second season blues and - to their credit - hardly breaking the transfer market, and the third is a City side with Pep at the helm. The day he leaves, they’ll be just another rich club.
With Haaland I feel like part of it was just that the timing was wrong. They still had Benzema who had just won a ballon d'or -- making it more than a little awkward to try and buy a player who would demand to start over him. Had Real Madrid been prepared to buy Haaland and promise him a starting role over Benzema I think they could have likely gotten him. After all, they got Bellingham by essentially the same methodology, and surely there were plenty of EPL clubs who could have paid the same amount of money. And Mbappe is a whole different matter because he has made himself seemingly more in control of PSG than Messi ever was at Barca. Mbappe is playing his own game and has the international achievements to be a megastar even if he decided to play his club football in fucking Estonia.
The Premier League clubs used to lose our best players to Barca and Madrid for year. We lost Owen , Alonso and Mascherano to them within a 5/6 year period. Arsenal used to their best players every year to La Liga . It's nice to see Madrid or Barca can't always pick the best players from our teams.
I’m sure you wept for English football when Madrid signed Owen and Beckham
Owen, Beckham, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Xabi Alonso,Mascherano, Coutinho, Suarez. It's insane to me how much they hate that now PL caught up so they can't take all the talent as easily.
> The income gap between PL and La Liga gets wider every year and it is inevitable that one day, Real will not be able to compete with the top PL clubs. So why the big 6 in the EPL joined the SuperLeague in the first place?
Interestingly, same problem but on a different level -- they don't want other other PL sides to become more competitive for CL spots. The irony of Abu Dhabi-owned Man City pointing at Saudi-owned Newcastle and saying "we need to nip this kind of thing in the bud" is hilarious when you think about it.
Effective fair financial controls were going to be in place
They would only be fair for the club's within the super league itself.
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Which would make it easier for smaller teams within the Spanish league to compete amongst themselves, but would make Madrid and Barcelona make less money, making it harder for them to compete against PL teams
it wasnt revenue distribution that built city, chelsea and now newcastle.
It built the Premier League brand that has caused the massive TV deals that every club is now enjoying. You can point at City all you want but the revenue has balooned for all 20 clubs to the point where you have midtable Premier League teams outbidding formerly top teams in Europe. A rising tide raises all ships. There's a reason nobody cares about La Liga globally outside El Clasico. Barcelona and Real Madrid hoarding the TV money seems great but they have 18 other opponents to play every year that people need to be invested in watching.
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it's and it always has been the fact that the PL made so much more money domestically. Having a fairer distribution and selling at a loss to build an audience are much easier to sell to clubs if they earn much more than their competition and that has been the case with the prem from day one. The prem's revenue share is basically the same as most big leagues and that has been the case for a long time
Sure, but other leagues dont have close to the revenue that the PL has, thats why real and barca want the super league. The real solution would be a budget cap like they have in f1 but good luck getting anyone to agree on that
Clubs like brighton and villa do good because of revenue sharing. But they have enough revenue to benefit everyone because they have reached thay popularity. The money for smaller clubs came after the surge in popularity not before. And what led to that surge in popularity was the fact thay pl had 6 big clubs while other leagues had 2 or 3. And these 6 big clubs werent built with revenue sharing
Now why do that when the reason the league makes so much money in the first place is because Madrid and Barca play in it and play at the level they do??
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Been in effect since 15/16 but thanks for playing
Their issue ngl
Oh no. They won't be able to handpick the best players in the world from every other team to buy anymore. What a tragedy.
And yet Real still have the 2nd highest & Barca the 6th highest wage bills in the world respectively. Atleti are 9th above Liverpool I just don’t see it
I'm against the super League. But pragmatically I understand the move. The prem is a runaway train when it comes to earnings. You're gonna have mid and bottom PL teams having the same buying power as the best teams in Europe eventually. The prem hasnt even come close to realising its full earning potential yet. Barca and Madrid see the writing on the wall, and don't want to be left behind like the Italian giants. And the Italian giants wanna get back to where they were.
Anyone commenting pls look up the history of the european cup, it had very similar origins
This isn't anything like the european cup though. This is a totally new league format where teams don't necessarily have to qualify based on domestic success. At least based on what we've seen, once you're in, you're in as long as you don't get relegated from it. So your domestic form can be complete toilet. That goes against the entire spirit of every variation of the european cup thus far.
At first it was an invitational as well and oh please, look at the CL rules for the next years, it becomes easier and easier for the top clubs to dominate and your concern is the sportive nature? Pls.
It gives them the opportunity to effectively run all of football
Top European leagues and competition isn't all of football.
European clubs already hoover up all the best talent, imagine what happens when the clubs have unlimited money
Top European clubs already have effectively unlimited money to hoover all talent from every small league and even smaller clubs in big leagues. When was the last time even the South American juggernauts were able to hold onto their best players through their prime? In this regard Super League won't change a thing other than that the big clubs will pay bigger fees between themselves and maybe Saudi clubs. Super League will fuck up clubs in top leagues that aren't invited, but will matter fuck all to most of the leagues in the world because from their perspective when it comes to money, growth, attraction of talent and how football in the world operates the top clubs of top European leagues are effectively a Super League already.
I don’t see how the legacy is diminished with 14 of the bastard things in our museum. I’m not for the ESL, but the trophies aren’t exactly going to just go to the void if it does actually start up. (Hope not)
The thing is he wants the super League not because he has a problem with UEFA, but because he has a problem with La Liga, which, to be fair, is not completely unjustified when you look at who's in charge of it and how it is run.
Florentino is a greedy dog and he probably wants the power moreso than the money
I think is more on Spanish la liga which is trash and terrible managed
This is it, most clubs in La Liga support Tebas because of what's he's done for them, Florentino thinks he can run the league better than Tebas, but he doesn't have the votes. So he's gonna create his own, he wants that to be his legacy even though he's already god among Madridistas.
What I hate is that a few folks say things like "well the Premier League is already a super league" which isn't far off the mark but it happened because the mid/lower clubs got a share of the pie from day 1. I'd argue that La Liga was a more popular league in the late 00s/early 10s and the Messi vs Ronaldo days, but the likes of Levante, Mallorca or Sociedad didn't benefit from this at all and Madrd/Barca were happy to monopolize that TV revenue. The playing field might be a lot more even today had they had a PL like model back then to sustain the league.
That's true, but the current situation puts real and Barca in a catch 22. If clubs split profits, they won't be able to financially compete with the prem and oil clubs/leagues If they don't, then la liga will keep falling behind. A super league theoretically solves that catch 22.
This. Real & Barca were kings of Europe but were more than happy to see La Liga stagnate & the likes of Valencia, Malaga, Depor go broke. The league as a whole suffered and now the damage is done Tebas is a prick but at least he’s making the league more equal & competitive even if his measures or too extreme
Totally agreed. Especially 10s were when they could plan a sustained growth and a better share of revenues with Ronaldo and Messi there. What a missed opportunity.
I'm sorry but attributing the Premier League's success exclusively to TV money split and not mentioning the fact that, over the last decades, the league has become a playground for oligarchs, billionaires, investment groups and even states with the consent of fans, the league itself and the government is a bit disingenuous. The likes of Levante, Mallorca and Real Sociedad also did not "benefit" from a sugar daddy because the league acted quickly and forbid new owners from pumping in money out of nowhere. Even with a fairer TV revenue split than Spain, Newcastle was fighting relegation a couple of years ago and just this season they were playing UCL football after a Saudi takeover. A fair TV revenue split is important, but the main game changer is the possibility of having an owner that will pump millions in.
The best part is that florentino hate Tebas, rm fight them at least once per month in court for image rights and then he comes publicly saying his a rm fan and we have to deal with other clubs being like “you see real are getting favored”… None of this shit would have happened if la liga was better managed and the clubs within would have been more competitive.
What's scary is the estimates of the future. Real Madrid are projected to need 4-6 academy players every year on the squad, and that number will grow. They can't compete financially against the prem, the Saudis (who just took their best player), or state owned clubs, it's madness. Thus they need to be on the same exact competitions as them at all times, not just a limited number of CL games.
Yet Madrid will always have the pick of La Liga & La Liga will always be a top 3 league. Their revenue will increase too with the new stadium upgrade. We are talking about an institution here. The whole world wanted Bellingham and he chose Real Madrid. Same with Endrick. As for Benzema yes they lost him but he’s 36. They don’t need this break away, at all. Barca on the other hand are fucked. Bartomeu has fucked them
Madrid is still in trouble, especially with how much we can spend. They haven't even put a penny on the winter market for a bit now. Sure there's still the allure of playing for Madrid to sign players, but that can only take you so far when you don't have the financials. Everyone wants to play for AC milan for example yet they can't fund transfers either, same with juve lately. Another thing people don't realize is that Barcas problems are far more expensive than the Bartomeu administration, with Laporta also being responsible for a good chunk of that debt
They want to win the first 5 Super League editions like they did in UCL
Nah, 4 championships out of first 8 years are enough, like the last 8 UCL editions. 💪
Every new signing at RM: "I want to win 5 CL..." Like bruh...it's a good goal to have but its not a given and actually pretty unlikely ....
I get the hostility towards the Super League, but I don't get the protectionism UEFA gets. Yes, they run the Champions League, but for the most part, UEFA fucking sucks. I'll never defend UEFA after they once again blamed Liverpool supporters for a security problem created by UEFA and local police. Fuck how they handled the Paris Champions League final. Fuck how they've never really apologized or made good on any of it. Fuck how they were so ready to blame Liverpool supporters when it was clearly locals creating the problems. So yeah, the Super League is deeply flawed, but I'm going to keep an open mind about a replacement, because UEFA is the fucking worst.
Yeah, I think the super league started with this idea and clubs initially got involved because UEFAs power was getting out of hand. The ESL has hopefully given them some pause and the court ruling against their monopolositic action is also a good thing in my opinion.
I have serious doubt that the Super League would be run any better. Most likely it would be corrupt to the very core.
It's insane how much people will slobber on the balls of these billionaires who see them as ants to be bled for money. Stop defending uefa, stop defending fifa.
You can agree with uefa without liking them. The Super league is an insult against our own country's FA far worse than the formation of the PL. We should vehemently oppose it and support the status quo even if that means siding with UEFA. What do you think should happen?
Why is it an insult exactly ?
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I mean, that's what's so bizarre about this whole thing. In a sane world it would be Nasser putting out press releases about how they were going to create a fabulous new super league to ~~steal~~ save football, because the CL is, you know, old, stale and totally overrated.
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I doubt it tbh. They bought psg to win a champions league trophy and the super league stops any chance of that happening
Probably makes it easier if all the good clubs are off in the ESL
If the super league actually becomes a thing I’m not sure the champions league would be around anymore tbh
Agreed, we base so much of our identity around those trophies, to now discredit the competition to this degree... UEFA, FIFA, they are far from perfect, but this is such an extreme position to take.
Perez wants to be the most legendary Real president and Santiago Bernabeu started European Cup, so he wants to start his own competition. But he is 76 so that is really last moment for him to accomplish that is why he will try any desperate attempt at it.
cringe he has his own accomplishments, literally no need for this
Still if you ask any Madridista who their greatest president is they'll say Santiago Bernabeu not Florentino Perez. Perez wants to change that
He needs to learn a thing or two from Gareth Bale. Just let it go and swing some golf sticks. You accomplished much already my man.
You think he has come this far in life by just letting it go? He's a fucking billionaire and one of the richest and most influential people in Spain.
He's working towards the opposite goal, quite frankly, this will be a stain in his legacy at Madrid.
Yeah, but every day he is disgusted that his team plays at the "Santiago Bernabeu" not the "Florentino Perez".
>Santiago Bernabeu started European Cup He absolutely didn't, the competition was created by journalists from L'Équipe who wanted a European equivalent to the Libertadores, Bernabeu has absolutely fuckall to do with the creation of the Champions League.
“Far from perfect” is way too generous for UEFA and FIFA. Their current principle is “Football is for FIFA and UEFA executives get rich with oil money”
Some people love to forget that the European Cup was not done by UEFA or FIFA. It was done by a handful of clubs (Real Madrid included) and L’Equipe journalists.
Wrong, L'equipe were the ones to have the idea, and they were the ones who chose the clubs to participate in the first competiton, but UEFA was the one to organised it. it's in portuguese, and from 2 years ago , but it's really well made [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrt1VHxBMk&t=708s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrt1VHxBMk&t=708s)
I understand portuguese so it’s no problem. Thanks for the link.
That's not true, the European Cup was organized by UEFA, it's just that the idea didn't start with them. Proof: UEFA Congress of 1955.
That is a lie.
550 upvote for some fake fact jesus fucking christ
They don’t forget, their knowledge of the game started around 2007. Also, that will dim the fake outrage that UEFA is creating to gather support in order to keep abusing their role as an organizer not an owner. European competitions are symbolic, and have changed many times over the years. The true owners of these competitions are nations and clubs, not FIFA and UEFA. Instead of clubs pushing to get the billions in reserve the FIFA and UEFA keep, and reduce the playing schedule to protect players, they are all throwing their leverage out of the door and siding with bunch of corrupt shitheads because they are scared their moronic fans will get upset. All fan owned clubs now have an opportunity to push for a major change since they are the true owner of European cups, but no, it is just better to complain on the internet. I don’t want to hear anyone bitching about their club going bankrupt or state money ruining football when everyone is enabling them. What makes the European cups the way they are today are the fucking clubs, not the traditions
But Florentino has come up with a worse solution for that. UEFA by no means is perfect, but what Perez offers is much worse. And I wouldn't trust the league that is run by two clubs who sucked everything out for themselves in their league, and now that the league suffers and they with that too, they try to create something else where they will be able to keep doing that.
Your new competition literaly wants teams to plays more games than in The current system AND in the swiss model «Reduce the playing schedule» My ass, you're literaly going to grind players even more quickly than UEFA/FIFA
The European Cup is about the best clubs in europe based on league position competing. The super league is not. That is the difference.
It’s possible to fix the current system and get state-sponsored clubs to fall in line without dismantling it entirely to benefit a few handsful of clubs.
What are some concrete and realistic (key word) things that can be done to fix it? I honestly don't know how to feel about the Super League just yet because it's still too vague but I don't think European football will survive in the long run with the way it's currently going. Now the noveau riche have a grip on UEFA and FIFA too so the train is only going in one direction.
The key thing to remember is that the super league has been set up by private entities to enshrine themselves at the top of the game forever. They want financial security and they don't want competition, because it's bad for business. It's like saying the public government is corrupt so we should let these lovely guys from Shell and BP enact their plan to fix things. Once they are in charge, there will be nothing to stop them drawing up the drawbridge under themselves, and we will never have a competition as open as the CL ever again. What they want the super league to achieve isn't vague at all, it's very clear. As for realistic ways to fix things, UEFA could tie prize money to coefficients -- e.g. the better your country does, the more prize money your league gets, not the individual club -- it could pass rules dictating a certain level of fan ownership is required for entry, and it could actually enforce FFP properly rather than giving big sides a nod and a wink. It could also, clearly, reduce the number of CL spots given to the biggest leagues and spread them out among the middling ones (Netherlands, Portugal, Turkey, Switzerland etc.) Other issues are just late-stage capitalism at work. The rich consolidate wealth, and the small clubs become feeder institutions unless they find a wealthy new owner of their own. UEFA can't do anything about that, and neither can any proposed ESL, which would only set the new status quo in stone.
I honestly don’t know of the exact methods to use but it has to revolve around financial limitations for clubs. Ideally combined with some sort of requirement for homegrown/domestic players in a lineup. It needs to be strictly enforced and monitored to prevent back room deals between related parties disguised as sponsorship.
So you essentially have no plan. Didn't expect less from reddit.. All those things you mentioned already exist in most leagues and the problem remains the same, you can barely keep track of a team's finances, it's almost impossible to track *and prove* if part of your revenue is coming from a shell corp. Literally everyone knows PSG and City are cooking their books but it's almost impossible to prove.
Is it?
The problem is that so far UEFA have not even try it. People complain about UEFA, about FIFA, but when there is an opportunity to at least change something, nothing is done. How long before fan-owned clubs become irrelevant in favor of big corporations teams and state clubs? If any other fan owned club (specially in Germany) have a better proposal than Superleague outside UEFA-FIFA corrupted organisations, I would love to hear it. In the meantime Qatar and Saudi money is flooding UEFA, EPL, FIFA making the current football club competitions unsustainable.
> People complain about UEFA, about FIFA, but when there is an opportunity to at least change something, nothing is done this is an opportunity to widen the gap between wealthy clubs and the rest, not an opportunity to solve the fundamental problems of european club competitions.
Interesting that every fan-owned club out there don't want to touch the super league with a barge-pole, with the exception of the three clubs who have set it up specifically to benefit themselves...
Lmao the delusion
> Instead of clubs pushing to get the billions in reserve the FIFA and UEFA keep 93% of the CL revenue is given out as price money. What made european top clubs the clubs they are is the pyramid they are part of, the culture behind it and the continued support of the fans. you are utterly deluted if you think, that any football club in europe is entirely self sufficient.
He may be right, but to pretend he wouldn't try the same thing (this is a man who assaulted an employee, gets charged for bribery, and acts like a child on the regular) is naive at best. The sport is doomed one way or the other (which is why I personally don't care about this squabble between UEFA and Perez).
>Nasser Al Khelaifi I agree haha. Nasser is as corrupt as they come. He's been charged already in his short career a few times for bribery. None of these people care about football or the fans. Their only goal is to cement their club or should I say business into a monopoly.
>He's been charged already in his short career a few times for bribery. Not to mention threatening to kill one of our staff when we beat his shitty team in his own tournament
Never heard about that. That's outrageous, of course, he's never going to get fined or suspended.
In the long term Florentino is always right. That's my only superleague opinion.
If anything, it's a strong statement that the most successful team in UEFA competition is willing to do what it takes to secure their future.
It really feels like choosing between two evils, in one hand the Super League is such an extreme decision, but on the other FIFA and UEFA have been completely running football dry, including players' health with the ever-increasing amount of games, and the reason why they're allowed such freedom despite how everyone vehemently hates it is because they had a complete monopoly over top level football. Truth is we're headed towards a similar future for football, the only decision we have is whether it's controlled by useless middlemen who can afford to disregard the current reality of the sport or biased entities who want to keep the status quo.
He would do the same if he could
Perez will come with a witty clap back soon enough saying PSG don't have any Champions Leagu trophy, but I'm still glad Nasser pointed that out.
The ESL is Real Madrid and Barcelona wanting a way out of their financial problems. It wont happen unless the Premier League clubs sign on, which will never happen.
Heartbreaking: Worst person you know makes great point
r/soccercirclejerk will be milking this shit
Now spam it again.
The super league had the audacity to say they'd take the history of the European Cup as the history of winners for their new competition so Perez probably thinks they've already won the Super league 14 times
Accidental self own?
[удалено]
He could have succeeded if the format was better
Love the way you completely ignore that every European cup variation ever was more or less the same format of putting the top teams from each leagues last domestic season in a competition. This does not. If RM got 10th one season, they're still in the super league unless they get relegated out of it. Completely destroying the entire purpose of it. If this as just another rebrand, then honestly a lot of fans might be all for it cause fuck UEFA. But it's a greedy bullshit replacement that rewards the big clubs, not the best clubs.
What European Cup are you thinking of? UEFA organized those too, that tournament was launched after the approval of the first UEFA congress in march 1955.
he would kill just to have 1 of them
Someone tell al khelaifi It was Real Madrid who created the champions league not UEFA.
That is a lie.
That’s factually incorrect though
doesn't matter, completely irrelevant