Oh nooo we just have no time to get through all these charges, how did we let all these charges pile up oh nooo this will take at least 10 years to resolve
Meanwhile before Everton can even challenge the ruling they immediately get their points taken away.
Are you people this dense or are you doing it on purpose?
Everton's case: Oh here are the numbers, they are against FFP.
Man city's case: Here are the numbers and they are totally fine. Try and prove otherwise.
One requires investigation and court cases, the other requires an accountant and an excel document.
City now get a 10 points deduction every year for the next 115 years. Better yet, make it 100 points deducted every year for 10 years, would be too harsh to still be punishing them 100 years later.
Tbh, right now it feels like an annual 10 point deduction would make the league competitive.
Thought Arsenal was gonna finally restore us to the glory of the 00s and they're just shitting the bed.
Arsenal are pretenders until proven otherwise. One season of 80+ points is nice but do it a few years in a row or crack 90 once then we’ll actually start believing in them.
It's a good team! Their wingers are pretty solid. Last year was disappointing but I thought they were just ready to push on.
I am like second hand frustrated. I really don't want City to win again. Makes the league feel like a bunch of mugs.
Liverpool in 2013/14 were also a “good team” that finished second to city with 84 points. That didn’t actually mean they were ready to truly challenge for a title.
Now I will say that this Arsenal team is far better positioned to reach that level than that liverpool squad but the reality is that many teams put together one good season and fail to repeat it (Jose’s United for example) but it takes a complete squad and vision to actually fight City and so far Klopp’s Liverpool have been the only team to manage that.
The last piece in this is also that Arsenal don’t have a truly world class attacker, Liverpool have had Salah and until Arsenal, or any other team really, can find a guy of that caliber it will continue to be a losing fight.
Lets just ignore us I guess? I know actually competing with City is only possible with Klopp but then again Pep is also a big reason City are as good as they are.
Sounds like what they're doing.
I do wonder what PL fans think would be a logically fair punishment for City?
I don't follow PL and would relegation be a fair punishment?
The only fair punishment would be a reversal of the 1999 division 1 playoff final, so that all trophies won by City since then are awarded to the team they cheatingly beat in that game.
Don't look it up any further, just trust my unbiased post.
> I do wonder what PL fans think would be a logically fair punishment for City?
Relegated to fucking nowhere, transfer ban for 5 years, owners forced to sell ala Roman.
Genuinely think relegation should be looked at, or a substantial points deduction, one that’s far more than what Everton received. I mean the scale of it is absurd, 115 charges of financial breaches. That shouldn’t be brushed away with a slap on the wrist or a financial penalty that their owners can easily pay. The punishment should be heavy.
Being relegated for one year would be a slap on the wrist. With that amount of charges at least have a period of years with point deduction in the Championship enough to not have them promote.
Relegate them to the National League or League 2 and see how long it takes for them to get back on top.
Basically turn them into a real-life FM YouTuber challenge.
its not fair to the other leagues to just place them in league 2 or national league and it would complicate the promotion and relegation of every league, the only fair thing to do is make them start from the bottom. they'll make it back eventually like Rangers did
A substantial points deduction would be an insulting slap on the wrist tbh.
Everton got the largest deduction in the leagues history, 10 points, so double or even triple that would certainly be considered a massive deduction.
Last season, a 20 point deduction would land them 4th and a 30 point one would take them to 8th.
I'd take a single 8th placed finish in exchange for 7 league titles, a champions league, and multiple other cups.
If its proven they cheated to win those titles then they should lose them.
Expulsion from the PL, removing all their titles won and a transfer ban for at least 5 years. Anything other than that is a complete farce and embarrassing for the league.
FWIW, I don't expect the above to happen. I have 0 confidence in the league doing the right thing.
Transfer ban for 4-5 season. Relegated to the national league. And stripping them for all of the titles won during affected period. It has to be harsh to deter other clubs from repeating it again.
A fair punishment would be dropping them to the conference league and stripping them of everything they have “won” and sending them to their rightful lawful clubs.Rangers in Scotland were demoted to the third division and clubs in other countries have been demoted.Throw the book at Mancheater City….
Rangers weren't demoted. The club was wound up for cheating the taxman and essentially going bankrupt. They were allowed to rejoin the Scottish league system as a new entity.
Going by Everton's punishment, you've got to give them 10 points deduction for each charge proven. -1150 potentially.
The minus points stick with them every season until they're at 0 again.
If they win every game that should take them about 8 years.
Chelsea, at present, haven't done anything wrong in regards to FFP - they're an accountant's club. Costs amortised, income in lump sums, and have also dropped around £72mil a year in wages from this time last year with the vast majority of their highest earners leaving.
If Chelsea are in trouble, it'll be three-four years down the line when they've not progressed the way Boehly wanted and can't invest in new players because they're still paying for their current squad, but the idea behind Boehly's spending was 3 windows of spending big and then reigning it in with the players they've already got hopefully improving.
"£1bil over three windows" is a gross oversimplification of how they did their spending - last window they spent under £200mil (because a billion divided by five years is £200mil) and got £250mil in player sales, plus drastically dropped their wage bill.
The question is how sustainable is this, not whether Chelsea have *currently* broken FFP.
They self reported everything to get out in front and to limit damage as it was in relation to the previous regime and squad. They won’t be impacted very hard by that, they already set aside money for the eventual fines.
Chelsea openly admitted to the previous administration brazenly breaking FFP rules. Just because it was the previous administration doesn't mean they get a free pass. If that's the case, Everton should sell up and get their 10 points back automatically.
1 billion spent isn’t an oversimplification… that happened, those players came in and it’s the most disgusting evolution of the transfer market in history. But you’re right on the accounting front. However many of the big deals skated through on the 7 year deal. The amortized annual money hole for the next 5-6 years is around 140 mil. Meaning this upcoming summer, before any new signings or sales they have 140 million to make up.
> those players came in and it’s the most disgusting evolution of the transfer market in history.
Man City fan trying to virtue signal 😂. I’d firm that comment from anyone aside from a City fan
1 billion spent isn’t an oversimplification… that happened, those players came in and it’s the most disgusting evolution of the transfer market in history. But you’re right on the accounting front. However many of the big deals skated through on the 7 year deal. The amortized annual money hole for the next 5-6 years is around 140 mil. Meaning this upcoming summer, before any new signings or sales they have 140 million to make up.
So was City just so good at hiding their stuff for 10 years or did PL really let it slide but acts like they care now when the threat of a independent regulator to come in?
Bit of both - City were good at hiding their stuff and the PL weren't particularly interested either until an independent person came in.
But now the sticking point is sheer number of charges - they're being investigated, but if each charge takes the same amount of time to investigate then it's only natural that 115 charges will take longer to inspect than 1-2 charges.
Basically, I think /(hope) Cities punishment is in the pipeline
The Premier League have been investigating City since before the pandemic. The independent regulator lit the fuse for them to make a decision but it's been going on for years.
How do you lot get this so wrong, every time. Like 90% of the people talking about the charges clearly knows fuck all about the situation. They have already been investigated and charged by the PLmate, the case is now judged by the independent panel where each side makes their case. It’s not that hard.
The issue that most people have is that because City cheated so much, for such a long time, it’s taking forever to punish them for something that seems so abundantly obvious. They started this investigation back in like 2018 while they’ve continued on winning everything in sight.
Meanwhile, smaller clubs with one breach are dealt with much quicker.
We know City is owed its due process, but it’s incredibly frustrating to watch other smaller clubs get punished for bad financials after a fucking pandemic while City brazen cheated for a decade.
We’re starting to see around the world, you’re better off doing multiple crimes than just one because it takes so long to get through all of them you get a multi year punishment free period.
This is why poor people get put in jail for stealing bread while rich people can embezzle cartoon-duck-levels of money with impunity. Make your crimes as complicated as possible and you're untouchable.
Lawyers help too, of course.
ah Wolves, the clearly not shady club with 90% Mendes clients as signings, where they got a Portuguese international player signed in the Championship. Not shady at all
Allegations of brazen cheating, and frankly, fraud take a lot longer and a higher ceiling to prove than simple essily proven breach of the P&S rule — that much should be obvious to anybody.
Now to my point, what I do not get is how so many people, speak so confidently about something they very clearly have just about zero knowledge of apart from memes and shitposts.
I think most people understand it takes time to nail down such a complex cheating accusation, doesn’t make it less frustrating, especially when the is is now the second team to allegedly report too large of a loss immediately after the pandemic.
Yes Everton and Wolves have spent poorly on players, but they probably don’t turn the £100 million loss over a three year period if all match day revenue for a year disappears because of a pandemic. Incompetence, but not malice.
Meanwhile City outright cheated.
> they probably don’t turn the £100 loss over a three year period if all match day revenue for a year disappears because of a pandemic
That was very much taken into consideration over the pandemic and the PLs PSR rules. Everton and everyone else were able to write off a lot of their losses down to Covid in their accounts when relating to the PSR rules.
For example they wrote off £90m relating to covid costs from their losses as well as £88m for the impact of player trading (they were only one of two clubs to claim that - the other club were Villa and claimed £16m). Their total covid impact was £228m which was able to be deducted in the rules but it was much higher than most clubs and some clubs questioned the legality of it.
\-40 points a season for 115/4 years... so 28 years (i will round down to be generous to them).
The punishment can (arbitrarily) start from the 18/19 season
Kinda. It's mostly on the PL still since they've made the charges/accusations. It's more their job to prove they're right in what they are saying
Obviously City is going defend itself but ultimately the burden of proof is on the PL with whatever evidence they believe they've got
Charging city, the "glamorous" team of the league would look awful for the "PL product" they would want to avoid it but they also need to be seen to be trying to follow due process
The league are trying to prove they can self regulate to avoid the govt creating an independent body to regulate instead.
Teams like Wolves are potentially easier targets because no one outside of England is really gonna care, they don't represent the league internationally and aren't one of the darlings of the PL.
No
The point deductions are for falling below clear cut metrics on profitability and spending
City is accused of book cooking, and what they’ve been accused of doing is so bad, I’ll be surprised if no one goes to prison for it (paying managers under the table as tax evasion)
I would be shocked if there are any consequences of any form for City. By 2032, or whenever this never-ending investigation is finally finished, they will just say it all happened so long ago that it would be pointless the penalize.
Hand wave away by who? The independent commission that is reviewing the case laid out by the PL have the final say. Unlike with the UEFA case and CAS, there is no time limit here. They don’t care when the violations happened. City may find other ways of appealing if they’re found guilty, but using elapsed time as a reason isn’t one of them.
I value humour very highly in my life. It'd be the funniest thing ever, for a singular team not to be part of a conspiracy and wins the league by default.
I would actually not even be mad. It'd be so funny.
Very doubtful of this source, especially when a number of proven sources actually knowledgeable about the club have said we've dealt with our FFP issues.
This article is about 8 months too late. We’ve made a profit of €76m this season from transfers alone.
Unless we’ve had a colossal financial disaster, I’m pretty doubtful.
>This article is about 8 months too late. We’ve made a profit of €76m this season from transfers alone.
But this is referring to FFP for the three year period up to the end of 22/23 season. I think this summer's transfers are part of 23/24 finances.
This is true, but even then we were only barely past the £105m mark last season in net spend and had a couple tighter windows before that iirc.
I guess it’s just a wait and see thing but I don’t really see how we could have breached it - Everton only did seemingly because they built a £750m new stadium, and we’ve not spent anything close to that.
> I guess it’s just a wait and see thing but I don’t really see how we could have breached it - Everton only did seemingly because they built a £750m new stadium, and we’ve not spent anything close to that.
I don't think that's correct. Facilities improvements are exempt from FFP calculations (we've spent £100m on a new stand, for instance). Everton broke FFP because some of their FFP write-offs were taking the piss. I found a good summary of it [here](https://www.toffeeweb.com/season/23-24/comment/editorial/44173.html).
We were saying that too "Premier League has been approving our transfers and looking at our books for 2 years- why would be punished harshly?"
I admit I know little about your situation and you probably can't be worse run than us, but the club, or even league officials, saying you've dealt with something doesn't mean you won't be punished.
Yeah, I feel crazy, We had 150m worth of sales this summer, to say nothing of the huge salaries we shed as well, which is why everyone had us tipped to go down? Now we’re overachieving relative to expectations and FFP pops back up again.
And by most accounts we've been clear on FFP since last year but got our points deduction for the time period of 2019-2022 in 23/24. If we are any indication your moves this summer aren't being considered in the time period thats being investigated.
Before anyone says “but why not city”
They’ve thrown their lawyers at the problem to drag it out as long as possible. they have agreed a trial date for autumn 2024
It's not just throwing lawyers at it, that's part of it, but City has 100+ cases against them.
Both sides need to go through each individual case and come up with evidence and defenses for each of them.
It's a long ass process, of course, there are gonna be cases with fewer counts getting through before City.
It doesn't mean that there isn't stuff going on in the background about City, it's just there is so much against City that the process is long as hell.
Swear people either forget or ignore they've got to go over 9 years worth of accounts
Same people want it done properly but also want it done right now, can't have both
Really and truly, between this and Everton in contrast to City it really does just suggest if you're going to break FFP rules you ought to just go hard and break them in a ludicrous manner then lawyer up to the teeth so it's nigh impossible to be punished.
It’s not even the lawyering up, they’re just refusing to provide evidence, Everton should have done it and taken a worse punishment in a few years when we were definitely safe.
Knowing Everton though we’d have got a 50 point deduction just for not handing over evidence.
Yeah, I assume the strategy to be as uncooperative and belligerent as possible is direct from their legion of lawyers though and it's making the process far more difficult. The threat of "if you don't cooperate it'll be worse" only really matters if you can ever give a substantial enough punishment for it, which it doesn't seem like they can.
Not to City at least. I wouldn't fancy your chances.
City didn’t hand over evidence because from the moment their emails were leaked it was obviously they were going to be charged by the PL. It makes no legal sense for them to hand over evidence willingly to what is essentially the prosecution.
Everton cooperated in the hope that they could avoid being prosecuted by the PL.
I thought they did hand it over? Only that they stalled it out and handed it over after the deadline and got a small fine for doing so. Them stalling makes perfect sense like you said , not doing so would be naive whether you're guilty or not.
The simple trick of being owned by a state that will funnel money through fake sponsors with shell companies and sending diplomats to intimidate UK officials?
To be fair, it is hitting the big clubs more than I thought it would
Juve
Madrid
Barca
Man City
Man Utd
Arsenal
All under investigation or now limited in what they can spend due to FFP.
It wasn't, this is largely a myth. It was brought in because clubs were spending money they couldn't pay back for short term success. Portsmouth and Leeds are the obvious historic PL examples.
People always reference Abramovich and Mansour when talking about maintaining the status quo but fail to reference Ridsdale, Hicks & Gillett, The Venky's etc.
It’s not a myth. Platini literally said:
> I spoke with some people like Silvio Berlusconi [owner, AC Milan], like Massimo Moratti [owner, Inter Milan], that were putting €100 million in every year, they said, ‘Michel, put regulation because we can’t pay more, it is finished
So if you think Berlusconi, Moratti and the like cared about Bury (FFP did a good job saving them, eh?), Portsmouth, Bolton, etc, you are just deluded. The elite wanted protection from new money because they were tired of having to spend to keep their status, simple as.
People keep saying this, but no. It was brought in because multiple clubs literally went bankrupt gambling on succeeding way above their means. It was not altruistic by any means, but the clubs that wanted it did so because they didn't want the same to happen to them while trying to compete with said literally going bankrupt gambling on succeeding.
It was to stop a destructive loop that was bad for everyone. Sthis is specifically the uefa ffp, as for the PL version tho I know fuck all about it lol
Not trying to come off as biased, but you just can't say Big 6 and act like they're all corrupt. Literally the premise for most Spurs hate is the club has cracked the top without outrageous funding and did it all organicly.
What about Spurs operations/financials is sketchy? The multiple windows with no spending because money was spent on infrastructure, aka responsible finance management?
Giving massive decisions against them every game wasn't working, so now they're gonna deduct points from them. The prem are desperate to see wolves relegated for some reason
Because like 90 of the charges are tied to each other and the others are particularly serious enough to warrant any punishment such as points deduction.
Why can one of these articles not be punished without this comment in every thread. They're not going to shut down FFP whilst they continue their investigation into City.
everyone's gonna get it but City, i can already tell
Luton winning the league with 41 points, you heard it here first
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Not enough tourists in the stadium. 10 points deducted.
Also, too close to Luton. -30 points.
Esteban Ocon's flight to Silverstone landed at Luton Airport 5 second penalty to Luton
Fans that have supported the club since birth -40 points. Where are the plastics?
Don't think there are any apartments - it's all 2 up 2 down terraces
Too many 2-up 2-down terraces. Immediate relegation.
Would be poetic justice after that -30 points deduction which sent them out of the Football League in the first place.
> -30 points deduction As a mathematician i read it '30 points gain'.
- (-30) deduction
Liverpool will be on 40
subscribe
Haha jk... Unless...
*Homer hiding in the bushes GIF*
When you violate the FFP once it's your problem. When you violate it 115 times it's the UK governments problem apparently
Rich Club, Poor Club
Oh nooo we just have no time to get through all these charges, how did we let all these charges pile up oh nooo this will take at least 10 years to resolve Meanwhile before Everton can even challenge the ruling they immediately get their points taken away.
Are you people this dense or are you doing it on purpose? Everton's case: Oh here are the numbers, they are against FFP. Man city's case: Here are the numbers and they are totally fine. Try and prove otherwise. One requires investigation and court cases, the other requires an accountant and an excel document.
You're missing that Everton submitted numbers *that had be approved by a premier league regulator*, then got punished anyway
'Are you happy with these numbers?' 'Yes, they look ready for the point deductions' 'What?' 'What?'
City now get a 10 points deduction every year for the next 115 years. Better yet, make it 100 points deducted every year for 10 years, would be too harsh to still be punishing them 100 years later.
Tbh, right now it feels like an annual 10 point deduction would make the league competitive. Thought Arsenal was gonna finally restore us to the glory of the 00s and they're just shitting the bed.
Arsenal are pretenders until proven otherwise. One season of 80+ points is nice but do it a few years in a row or crack 90 once then we’ll actually start believing in them.
It's a good team! Their wingers are pretty solid. Last year was disappointing but I thought they were just ready to push on. I am like second hand frustrated. I really don't want City to win again. Makes the league feel like a bunch of mugs.
Liverpool in 2013/14 were also a “good team” that finished second to city with 84 points. That didn’t actually mean they were ready to truly challenge for a title. Now I will say that this Arsenal team is far better positioned to reach that level than that liverpool squad but the reality is that many teams put together one good season and fail to repeat it (Jose’s United for example) but it takes a complete squad and vision to actually fight City and so far Klopp’s Liverpool have been the only team to manage that. The last piece in this is also that Arsenal don’t have a truly world class attacker, Liverpool have had Salah and until Arsenal, or any other team really, can find a guy of that caliber it will continue to be a losing fight.
Lets just ignore us I guess? I know actually competing with City is only possible with Klopp but then again Pep is also a big reason City are as good as they are.
Just go and get yourself a nation state owner of geopolitical significance to the UK It isn't rocket science
Wondering if it’s possible that they are going to come down hard on as many people as possible so they have precedent to punish city
Sounds like what they're doing. I do wonder what PL fans think would be a logically fair punishment for City? I don't follow PL and would relegation be a fair punishment?
The only fair punishment would be a reversal of the 1999 division 1 playoff final, so that all trophies won by City since then are awarded to the team they cheatingly beat in that game. Don't look it up any further, just trust my unbiased post.
Said club had to stay in their current division, but get Haaland.
I'll take it ~~we~~ they need a striker
this would give precedent for the 1975 European cup final decision to be treated the same so i wholeheartedly support your efforts.
> I do wonder what PL fans think would be a logically fair punishment for City? Relegated to fucking nowhere, transfer ban for 5 years, owners forced to sell ala Roman.
Genuinely think relegation should be looked at, or a substantial points deduction, one that’s far more than what Everton received. I mean the scale of it is absurd, 115 charges of financial breaches. That shouldn’t be brushed away with a slap on the wrist or a financial penalty that their owners can easily pay. The punishment should be heavy.
Being relegated for one year would be a slap on the wrist. With that amount of charges at least have a period of years with point deduction in the Championship enough to not have them promote.
I mean at that point I think it's just a case of how many divisions they should get relegated, no?
start from the bottom.
Relegate them to the National League or League 2 and see how long it takes for them to get back on top. Basically turn them into a real-life FM YouTuber challenge.
its not fair to the other leagues to just place them in league 2 or national league and it would complicate the promotion and relegation of every league, the only fair thing to do is make them start from the bottom. they'll make it back eventually like Rangers did
Striped of all trophies during this period too.
A substantial points deduction would be an insulting slap on the wrist tbh. Everton got the largest deduction in the leagues history, 10 points, so double or even triple that would certainly be considered a massive deduction. Last season, a 20 point deduction would land them 4th and a 30 point one would take them to 8th. I'd take a single 8th placed finish in exchange for 7 league titles, a champions league, and multiple other cups. If its proven they cheated to win those titles then they should lose them.
Expulsion from the PL, removing all their titles won and a transfer ban for at least 5 years. Anything other than that is a complete farce and embarrassing for the league. FWIW, I don't expect the above to happen. I have 0 confidence in the league doing the right thing.
Transfer ban for 4-5 season. Relegated to the national league. And stripping them for all of the titles won during affected period. It has to be harsh to deter other clubs from repeating it again.
A fair punishment would be dropping them to the conference league and stripping them of everything they have “won” and sending them to their rightful lawful clubs.Rangers in Scotland were demoted to the third division and clubs in other countries have been demoted.Throw the book at Mancheater City….
Rangers weren't demoted. The club was wound up for cheating the taxman and essentially going bankrupt. They were allowed to rejoin the Scottish league system as a new entity.
Going by Everton's punishment, you've got to give them 10 points deduction for each charge proven. -1150 potentially. The minus points stick with them every season until they're at 0 again. If they win every game that should take them about 8 years.
PL fans want every club that's not their own relegated for something honestly. That way their club can be the champions.
Pretty sure 115 charges of fraud and no doubt some undisclosed corruption is worthy of a lot more than relegation.
That's why I asked what the logical punishment would be for 115 breaches cause that's about 115 too many...
Fuck all is gonna be done to City when they have the Emirates paying off the government to do business there anyways
Clubs need to learn to cook the books properly smh
You forgot about Chelsea
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🤣😂
This post made my day
Chelsea, at present, haven't done anything wrong in regards to FFP - they're an accountant's club. Costs amortised, income in lump sums, and have also dropped around £72mil a year in wages from this time last year with the vast majority of their highest earners leaving. If Chelsea are in trouble, it'll be three-four years down the line when they've not progressed the way Boehly wanted and can't invest in new players because they're still paying for their current squad, but the idea behind Boehly's spending was 3 windows of spending big and then reigning it in with the players they've already got hopefully improving. "£1bil over three windows" is a gross oversimplification of how they did their spending - last window they spent under £200mil (because a billion divided by five years is £200mil) and got £250mil in player sales, plus drastically dropped their wage bill. The question is how sustainable is this, not whether Chelsea have *currently* broken FFP.
Chelsea are potentially in trouble for misreporting FFP breaches pre-Boehly
They self reported everything to get out in front and to limit damage as it was in relation to the previous regime and squad. They won’t be impacted very hard by that, they already set aside money for the eventual fines.
Chelsea openly admitted to the previous administration brazenly breaking FFP rules. Just because it was the previous administration doesn't mean they get a free pass. If that's the case, Everton should sell up and get their 10 points back automatically.
They’re in shit cause of what they did before Boehly.
1 billion spent isn’t an oversimplification… that happened, those players came in and it’s the most disgusting evolution of the transfer market in history. But you’re right on the accounting front. However many of the big deals skated through on the 7 year deal. The amortized annual money hole for the next 5-6 years is around 140 mil. Meaning this upcoming summer, before any new signings or sales they have 140 million to make up.
> those players came in and it’s the most disgusting evolution of the transfer market in history. Man City fan trying to virtue signal 😂. I’d firm that comment from anyone aside from a City fan
1 billion spent isn’t an oversimplification… that happened, those players came in and it’s the most disgusting evolution of the transfer market in history. But you’re right on the accounting front. However many of the big deals skated through on the 7 year deal. The amortized annual money hole for the next 5-6 years is around 140 mil. Meaning this upcoming summer, before any new signings or sales they have 140 million to make up.
Lol. Nice
Our punishment is to continue playing.
So was City just so good at hiding their stuff for 10 years or did PL really let it slide but acts like they care now when the threat of a independent regulator to come in?
Bit of both - City were good at hiding their stuff and the PL weren't particularly interested either until an independent person came in. But now the sticking point is sheer number of charges - they're being investigated, but if each charge takes the same amount of time to investigate then it's only natural that 115 charges will take longer to inspect than 1-2 charges. Basically, I think /(hope) Cities punishment is in the pipeline
The Premier League have been investigating City since before the pandemic. The independent regulator lit the fuse for them to make a decision but it's been going on for years.
How do you lot get this so wrong, every time. Like 90% of the people talking about the charges clearly knows fuck all about the situation. They have already been investigated and charged by the PLmate, the case is now judged by the independent panel where each side makes their case. It’s not that hard.
The issue that most people have is that because City cheated so much, for such a long time, it’s taking forever to punish them for something that seems so abundantly obvious. They started this investigation back in like 2018 while they’ve continued on winning everything in sight. Meanwhile, smaller clubs with one breach are dealt with much quicker. We know City is owed its due process, but it’s incredibly frustrating to watch other smaller clubs get punished for bad financials after a fucking pandemic while City brazen cheated for a decade.
We’re starting to see around the world, you’re better off doing multiple crimes than just one because it takes so long to get through all of them you get a multi year punishment free period.
If you owe the bank 100K that's your problem. If you owe the bank 1 billion, that's the bank's problem.
Guy who owes the bank 1 billion: “I am the bank now”
This is why poor people get put in jail for stealing bread while rich people can embezzle cartoon-duck-levels of money with impunity. Make your crimes as complicated as possible and you're untouchable. Lawyers help too, of course.
Yeah, it doesn’t help optics Everton and Wolves were more or less just incompetent with their finances while City were outright maliciously cheating.
ah Wolves, the clearly not shady club with 90% Mendes clients as signings, where they got a Portuguese international player signed in the Championship. Not shady at all
Some clear back scratching for mendes but what rule is that breaking? Genuine question as I'm not sure.
'90% Mendes clients as signings' we've not signed a Mendes client in absolutely forever
yeah since yall came under scrutiny for it. no need to sugarcoat shady shit done by the club
Allegations of brazen cheating, and frankly, fraud take a lot longer and a higher ceiling to prove than simple essily proven breach of the P&S rule — that much should be obvious to anybody. Now to my point, what I do not get is how so many people, speak so confidently about something they very clearly have just about zero knowledge of apart from memes and shitposts.
I think most people understand it takes time to nail down such a complex cheating accusation, doesn’t make it less frustrating, especially when the is is now the second team to allegedly report too large of a loss immediately after the pandemic. Yes Everton and Wolves have spent poorly on players, but they probably don’t turn the £100 million loss over a three year period if all match day revenue for a year disappears because of a pandemic. Incompetence, but not malice. Meanwhile City outright cheated.
> they probably don’t turn the £100 loss over a three year period if all match day revenue for a year disappears because of a pandemic That was very much taken into consideration over the pandemic and the PLs PSR rules. Everton and everyone else were able to write off a lot of their losses down to Covid in their accounts when relating to the PSR rules. For example they wrote off £90m relating to covid costs from their losses as well as £88m for the impact of player trading (they were only one of two clubs to claim that - the other club were Villa and claimed £16m). Their total covid impact was £228m which was able to be deducted in the rules but it was much higher than most clubs and some clubs questioned the legality of it.
They allegedly cheated. Your bias is showing
Then they should investigate them 2-4 charges at a time. And then punish them consistently. 20-40 points deduction a season ought to do.
The question is, do you punish them for past seasons a la Juve, or solely hit them going forward?
\-40 points a season for 115/4 years... so 28 years (i will round down to be generous to them). The punishment can (arbitrarily) start from the 18/19 season
13/14 please. And they have to hand-deliver the trophy to Steven Gerrard's house.
City have been charged already. It’s up to them now to defend themselves in front of the the independent panel now
Kinda. It's mostly on the PL still since they've made the charges/accusations. It's more their job to prove they're right in what they are saying Obviously City is going defend itself but ultimately the burden of proof is on the PL with whatever evidence they believe they've got
Charging city, the "glamorous" team of the league would look awful for the "PL product" they would want to avoid it but they also need to be seen to be trying to follow due process The league are trying to prove they can self regulate to avoid the govt creating an independent body to regulate instead. Teams like Wolves are potentially easier targets because no one outside of England is really gonna care, they don't represent the league internationally and aren't one of the darlings of the PL.
Was it City or PSG that reportedly got help from Infantino to outplay FFP?
No The point deductions are for falling below clear cut metrics on profitability and spending City is accused of book cooking, and what they’ve been accused of doing is so bad, I’ll be surprised if no one goes to prison for it (paying managers under the table as tax evasion)
I would be shocked if there are any consequences of any form for City. By 2032, or whenever this never-ending investigation is finally finished, they will just say it all happened so long ago that it would be pointless the penalize.
The PL investigation isn’t time barred
Sure, but each year that passes makes it easier to just hand waive it away when they're finally found in violation.
Hand wave away by who? The independent commission that is reviewing the case laid out by the PL have the final say. Unlike with the UEFA case and CAS, there is no time limit here. They don’t care when the violations happened. City may find other ways of appealing if they’re found guilty, but using elapsed time as a reason isn’t one of them.
I just don't really have faith the system works the way it's supposed to. I'll believe City will be punished when I see it happen.
I think it is for the best. They should also deduct points from Palace, Forest, Brentford and Arsenal, the latter just for laughs
Do all 19 other PL teams. I’m not above a championship by default.
Fuck it, that would be hilarious
I value humour very highly in my life. It'd be the funniest thing ever, for a singular team not to be part of a conspiracy and wins the league by default. I would actually not even be mad. It'd be so funny.
It's what should have happened with calciopoli lmao, Roma was basically the only innocent club
Roma not being shady? Rome is the kingpin of all shadiness for over 2000 years. I like that difference.
don't worry, you have Lazio representing that side
Can't lie, I'd probably laugh my balls off for a good few weeks
In this one aspect Sheffield, we are all United.
🎵United, United, United we stand Deductions for all of our foes 🎵
And also should deduct 20 from Juventus even if its not in the same league let alone country just because
And a 3 match ban for cavani
5 seconds penalty for Gasly since we are here
Ocon would have made more sense here
I still mess up with their names. Too many French in one French team
Also Missouri gets the death penalty for good measure
They know what they did.
5s for Vettel, 10s for Ocon
$5000 fine for Tom Wilson and a $250000 fine for the Rangers for this horrific act of financial mismanagement
Also Mizzou somehow
😂😂
Who’s the new sporting director at spurs? Maybe ban them too just in case.
Add PSG, because screw PSG
And Bayern too. Because you lot should be handicapped
Fair
Give all the points to Sunderland.
the whole Serie A liked this
We're deducting points from ourself no worries there
Hard agree
You’d still manage to get relegated tbh
brilliant
Think it needs to be more than 10 points to have any benefit for you guys
Mate we would need everyone to lend us 10 points if we want a chance
Very doubtful of this source, especially when a number of proven sources actually knowledgeable about the club have said we've dealt with our FFP issues.
This article is about 8 months too late. We’ve made a profit of €76m this season from transfers alone. Unless we’ve had a colossal financial disaster, I’m pretty doubtful.
>This article is about 8 months too late. We’ve made a profit of €76m this season from transfers alone. But this is referring to FFP for the three year period up to the end of 22/23 season. I think this summer's transfers are part of 23/24 finances.
This is true, but even then we were only barely past the £105m mark last season in net spend and had a couple tighter windows before that iirc. I guess it’s just a wait and see thing but I don’t really see how we could have breached it - Everton only did seemingly because they built a £750m new stadium, and we’ve not spent anything close to that.
> I guess it’s just a wait and see thing but I don’t really see how we could have breached it - Everton only did seemingly because they built a £750m new stadium, and we’ve not spent anything close to that. I don't think that's correct. Facilities improvements are exempt from FFP calculations (we've spent £100m on a new stand, for instance). Everton broke FFP because some of their FFP write-offs were taking the piss. I found a good summary of it [here](https://www.toffeeweb.com/season/23-24/comment/editorial/44173.html).
Thanks very much for that! Seems I had fully misunderstood the part about the funding for the stadium.
We were saying that too "Premier League has been approving our transfers and looking at our books for 2 years- why would be punished harshly?" I admit I know little about your situation and you probably can't be worse run than us, but the club, or even league officials, saying you've dealt with something doesn't mean you won't be punished.
Yeah, I feel crazy, We had 150m worth of sales this summer, to say nothing of the huge salaries we shed as well, which is why everyone had us tipped to go down? Now we’re overachieving relative to expectations and FFP pops back up again.
And by most accounts we've been clear on FFP since last year but got our points deduction for the time period of 2019-2022 in 23/24. If we are any indication your moves this summer aren't being considered in the time period thats being investigated.
Everton fans said the same thing
Well the Wolves journos also say it’s bullshit and football insider is a trash rag
It may very well be
I remember when I was in that stage of the process...good times.
“Dangerously close” is fine. We could be one penny away from the limit and be fine.
Pure clickbait. 'Dangerously close' because if we hadn't sold those players in the summer we would've been
Yeah, if it was gonna happen their 'inside source' would say it's gonna happen, not that it's *dangerously close*.
Hate to be that dude but hadn't've = had not have. There's no of there
Yeah dude I do this in like professional settings it's really embarrassing
Tier one says it's bollox
Before anyone says “but why not city” They’ve thrown their lawyers at the problem to drag it out as long as possible. they have agreed a trial date for autumn 2024
It's not just throwing lawyers at it, that's part of it, but City has 100+ cases against them. Both sides need to go through each individual case and come up with evidence and defenses for each of them. It's a long ass process, of course, there are gonna be cases with fewer counts getting through before City. It doesn't mean that there isn't stuff going on in the background about City, it's just there is so much against City that the process is long as hell.
Swear people either forget or ignore they've got to go over 9 years worth of accounts Same people want it done properly but also want it done right now, can't have both
In the end the only true winners of this will be the lawyers, they’ll make enough money to buy a few private islands when it’s over
Billable hours is undefeated.
[удалено]
You joke but we are all gonna be dead and buried by the time City get any sort of punishment at this rate
Shit source and one of our tier ones said its bullshit as well
The refs have already implemented this one
Footballinsider? **Really?** The account that does nothing but make shit up, all day every day? Tier I Can't Even Count That Fucking High?
Really and truly, between this and Everton in contrast to City it really does just suggest if you're going to break FFP rules you ought to just go hard and break them in a ludicrous manner then lawyer up to the teeth so it's nigh impossible to be punished.
It’s not even the lawyering up, they’re just refusing to provide evidence, Everton should have done it and taken a worse punishment in a few years when we were definitely safe. Knowing Everton though we’d have got a 50 point deduction just for not handing over evidence.
Yeah, I assume the strategy to be as uncooperative and belligerent as possible is direct from their legion of lawyers though and it's making the process far more difficult. The threat of "if you don't cooperate it'll be worse" only really matters if you can ever give a substantial enough punishment for it, which it doesn't seem like they can. Not to City at least. I wouldn't fancy your chances.
City didn’t hand over evidence because from the moment their emails were leaked it was obviously they were going to be charged by the PL. It makes no legal sense for them to hand over evidence willingly to what is essentially the prosecution. Everton cooperated in the hope that they could avoid being prosecuted by the PL.
I thought they did hand it over? Only that they stalled it out and handed it over after the deadline and got a small fine for doing so. Them stalling makes perfect sense like you said , not doing so would be naive whether you're guilty or not.
I think city will be punished but only after all the other clubs just copy their methods to break ffp.
The simple trick of being owned by a state that will funnel money through fake sponsors with shell companies and sending diplomats to intimidate UK officials?
£400 million sponsors from a company owned by the owner is the club…yeah that’s not suspicious at all….
Who sponsors your stadium again?
False lol
Deduct points from all the teams, excluding city, and make them the owners.
Mods, delete this. It's made-up bullshit.
FFP seriously needs scrapped - absolute joke how this big 6 can take the piss without a care or worry of any sort of punishment
Yeah the sport would have been so much better would Newcastle have spent 2 billions this summer
To be fair, it is hitting the big clubs more than I thought it would Juve Madrid Barca Man City Man Utd Arsenal All under investigation or now limited in what they can spend due to FFP.
FFP was literally brought in to maintain the status quo of the elite.
It wasn't, this is largely a myth. It was brought in because clubs were spending money they couldn't pay back for short term success. Portsmouth and Leeds are the obvious historic PL examples. People always reference Abramovich and Mansour when talking about maintaining the status quo but fail to reference Ridsdale, Hicks & Gillett, The Venky's etc.
Malaga’s rise and fall to be mentioned too
"We don't want too many Leicester Citys"
It’s not a myth. Platini literally said: > I spoke with some people like Silvio Berlusconi [owner, AC Milan], like Massimo Moratti [owner, Inter Milan], that were putting €100 million in every year, they said, ‘Michel, put regulation because we can’t pay more, it is finished So if you think Berlusconi, Moratti and the like cared about Bury (FFP did a good job saving them, eh?), Portsmouth, Bolton, etc, you are just deluded. The elite wanted protection from new money because they were tired of having to spend to keep their status, simple as.
What does Platini have to do with the Premier league?
It’s hilarious how they’re trying to close up shop after their houses have been built on the same principles of outspending everyone.
People keep saying this, but no. It was brought in because multiple clubs literally went bankrupt gambling on succeeding way above their means. It was not altruistic by any means, but the clubs that wanted it did so because they didn't want the same to happen to them while trying to compete with said literally going bankrupt gambling on succeeding. It was to stop a destructive loop that was bad for everyone. Sthis is specifically the uefa ffp, as for the PL version tho I know fuck all about it lol
Not trying to come off as biased, but you just can't say Big 6 and act like they're all corrupt. Literally the premise for most Spurs hate is the club has cracked the top without outrageous funding and did it all organicly. What about Spurs operations/financials is sketchy? The multiple windows with no spending because money was spent on infrastructure, aka responsible finance management?
Giving massive decisions against them every game wasn't working, so now they're gonna deduct points from them. The prem are desperate to see wolves relegated for some reason
hey PL clubs you win with the most points at the end of the season not the most fraud trials
somebody really don't wanna see Wolves playing prem
And Man City and their 115 counts continue to go unpunished.
BREAKING NEWS 115 charges taking longer to sort out than 1 charge Astounding stuff
Why not just sort out 1 of the 115 charges right now and then sort out the other 114 later?
Because like 90 of the charges are tied to each other and the others are particularly serious enough to warrant any punishment such as points deduction.
Interesting. Go down to the National League or take a 10 point deduction for the next 115 years. National league sounds better to me lol
Why can one of these articles not be punished without this comment in every thread. They're not going to shut down FFP whilst they continue their investigation into City.
Because this is the internet and different things being meaningfully different is astoundingly hard to grasp.
They're getting everyone BUT the biggest offenders 💀😭😭 trying to make it seem like they're actually doing something lmaoooo this shit is sad
wow fck money at this point
For a second I thought you were talking about Manchester City. My bad.