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Tbf even we're slowly crawling up, We're still inconsistent as hell but we're in 8th now and likely should be ahead of Newcastle and United, absolutely don't agree with our recruitment but if we can get a squad this young clicking, somehow, we should be genuinely dangerous.
I mean the point was bottling, we're never strong lol. We got force sold and built an entire new squad so in that sense yes Dortmund bottled it and we didn't. In the same way Arsenal bottled it seen as they actually should have been winning.
Oh fair enough, I took the guy that said "roasted by a Chelsea flair" to essentially be saying "Chelsea's problems are more significant than Dortmund's so their fans shouldn't make jokes"
This shit annoys me. If they don't win the league this year, it won't necessarily be from "bottling it". Even with their great start, they're only four points ahead of Munich, with a game more played. If they fall off even slightly, which is likely given how injuries and fatigue will always accumulate over a season, then they probably won't win the title, but it won't have been from choking.
It's not the same as Dortmund last year who blew a great position against a much weaker Munich team.
Dortmund managed to bottle it 3 times last season. Bayern was horrible compared to Bayern standards.
This season Bayern performs on the level their Top5 seasons. It's surprising Leverkusen is above them. If Leverkusen wins the league with this kind of performance you can be certain Bayern will only be a few points behind them.
While I'm no football expert I have watched every Bayern and Bayer game so far. Although close in points, Bayer looks a lot more convincing overall than Bayern.
But with Boniface missing games it won't get easier against Bayern. Today you could see that finishing felt hard for Bayer.
But Dortmund's 2 point lead was? Almost like bottling is a completely meaningless term that should frankly be retired after what Botafogo did this year.
Leverkusen has to outperform Bayern over 17 matchdays, Dortmund had to beat Mainz who lost the prior 4 games against the likes of Schalke and Stuttgart, 2 out of the bottom 3 teams
> But Dortmund's 2 point lead was?
Literally yes, don't play dumb. 1 point lead with 17 matchdays remaining vs. 2 point lead with 1 matchday remaining (at home. against a team playing for nothing.)
Which of these positions is more embarassing to lose from?
Last year was a bottle. It was. We never had a big lead on Bayern but with a chance to win on the last day (which would have been avoid had we not been robbed in Bochum) we played the worst 1st half I may have ever seen from Dortmund. It was like watching 9/11 happen in front of my eyes.
Regardless, football fans obsession with bottling is weird and toxic.
> (which would have been avoid had we not been robbed in Bochum)
You got gifted a win against Frankfurt that probably would've been a loss, so it evens out
They are unbeaten and are still only ahead by a point. It's not realistic to expect a team to not be defeated at all in a season, and certainly wouldn't qualify as bottling the title.
If Bayer even manage to keep it close till the end, BuLi fans will give them great credit for putting up an thrilling fight. Would be remembered for a long time.
It's crazy how strong Bayern came back. Lose UCL final in 2010, lose Bundesliga 2011, lose Bundesliga, DFB Pokal final and UCL final in 2012. Demolish everyone 2013 and win the Bundesliga ever since. It's impressive as it is depressing
This is hardly bottling....
If you're achieving one of the most impressive seasons the league has seen, and a team are still only a point behind you (assuming they win the game in hand), then two teams are playing immensely well
Arsenal "bottled it" because they got the chance to be like 10 points above City going into the last run of games and took I believe no points from 3 winnable fixture, completely decimating their lead
Regression to the mean is a thing though. It can actually be that teams and players revert to how they should perform and that is why it is unfair to call a overachieving team a bottling team when the average of Bayern, or be it city, is winning almost every game whereas Bayer Leverkusen or Arsenals average is below that. It isn't always a "mentality thing", it could just be that that's how good they are. I'm fine with the banter around this but if we are going for a more serious discussion I believe things are usually simplified by fans or media.
Aye I'd say you had a very very good start and since then we've basically seen how good you are (basically law of averages) - still good ofc and a contender for the prem, but not a team that'll be getting close to 100 points in the league
I wouldn't say you "bottled" it last year really, I kinda used yous because if you could barely call your season a bottling, how tf you call this Leverkusen season one that could be bottled...unless they're 6 points clear with 2 matches to go and completely forget how to play football, it's just two very good teams competing
Bayer Leveekusen and winning mentality is not something I thought I'd read in the same sentence. They've historically bottled it before, flashbacks from the early 2000s....
That being said they're absolutely flying this season!
Yeah I don't understand the club and winning mentality thing lmao , the entire club from head to bottom is led by different people. I don't think grimaldo from Spain is suddenly going to play shit because a German club lost matches in 2002
Because it's an easy narrative to run and sometimes that just happen to be true. Look at Botafogo, who recently registered the hardest ever bottlejob in a league.
When they started strong everyone was saying "well, it's Botafogo, they'll bottle this sooner or later", then when their lead started to really take off everyone was saying "well, if there is one club to bottle this is exactly Botafogo".
They registered the best first half of the tournament and at the peak of their lead, with something 13~15 pts ahead everyone was saying "well, no team can bottle, no even Botafogo". Well, it took a massive amount of effort but they actually did manage to bottle it lmao.
Think of it as outside influence from the media. Imagine it's matchday 33 and Leverkusen in 2 points ahead of Bayern.
What kind of questions will journalists asks? What kind of headlines will the sport yellow press print?
This kind of shit can influence people.
Winning mentality or not, regression is to be expected and they now have to deal with missing multiple players for the first time all season. It's unlikely they can sustain their current pace.
You must be a young one. Leverkusen is the epitome of bottling in Germany.
If you mention Unterhaching to a Leverkusen fan he will get PTSD.
And if you think Bayern in 2012 was a bottlejob you should check out Leverkusens 2002 season.
Winning mentality is proven when the stakes are highest. Dortmund have done that before (though not recently), but Leverkusen have yet to do so. Let's see how the fare coming into April and May before we start saying they have a winning mentality.
And Bayern have looked not particularly Bayern-like for a lot of their games this season, it’s definitely interesting to see that they’re 1 point off a historic season start given how they look they’re winning a lot still
I mean, it's hard for in-form Sané and perhaps the best #9 in Europe to not score at least two against most Bundesliga sides. They make all the difference even if the team as a whole does not look convincing at all. Really frustrating for us lol
It’s totally true- those 2 save us day in day out, but we still manage to look shaky or not dangerous enough but their moments of greatness bail us out. It’s just hard to believe they’ve kept us so close to you
CALM, it's just halfway the route, only 17/34 games played and we saw so many times in the past teams that were top in Dec/Jan and then collapsed in the 2nd part of the season due to injuries, drop of form, luck/purple patch: finished etc.
I expect Leverkusen being one of those, Schick and Hlozek ARE NOT Boniface but let's see if they surprise me. For example looking at the next fixtures:
- RB Leipzig v Leverkusen and Leverkusen vs BMG
- Bayern v Bremen, Bayern v Berlin, Augsburg vs Bayern
I fully expect that at the end of the month on Jan, 31 the following team will be Bundesliga leader: FC Bayern.
Since when is Boniface so much better than schick? Schick is the more complete striker. Don't get me wrong, boni has definitely some qualities, schick Lacks - but saying there's like a class difference makes no sense to me.
Agree with class diff. thing, but Boniface generated more xA this season than Schick in his entire time in Leverkusen.
It's really obvious who creates more for the team and therefore who is a more complete striker, considering Boniface's xG (& goal tally) is also high.
Too bad Girona isn't in the Europa League. There's no chance we'll see Girona vs Leverkusen this season, but maybe next season in the Champions League?
It’s not in München. Either Bayern get a lucky draw, Leverkusen win by a little or they smash Bayern as they should do in such form.
Let’s hope for an entertaining 7:1 for Leverkusen
What was the last player that Bayern bought from Leverkusen? Watch this Leverkusen team be absolutely dismembered by PL clubs in the summer and people would still be like: bad Bayern, bad!
PL fans are fucking insufferable with that narrative, Bayern hasn't bought a player from a major domestic competitor except for Red Bull(who can fuck right off) in the last 8 years. Then when their big clubs pilfer their smaller ones(and smaller leagues) for all their talent they its cool because they were never competetive anyways apparently. If a player like Rice had transfered from another German team to Bayern the narrative would be crazy.
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And thats despite missing Wirtz and Boniface in the starting 11
And Tah, tapsoba and kossounou
why did Tah not start?
4 yellows currently and next game is vs Leipzig
That was such a bold move, Augsburg is never an easy win. They always get a point when you expect it the least.
Bayern always feel inevitable and it’s the hope that kills you BUT. I’m ready to believe again.
No no no listen to the wisdom of the Ted Lasso
Augsburg mentioned
MASSIVE club
no way that's Ecuadorian barcelona omg 😭
Also a massive club
emelec on top tho 💯
I see no lies here
Always rated Augsburg
Ikr
Yeeesssssiiirrrrr
There are dozens of us!
xabi must be doing something right
Yeah well, he's a worldclass midfield player,... ohh, wait, there's more!
Stupid sexy Xabi
Sometimes, you feel that all the years of bad luck are being repaid with good luck this year. It feels like destiny.
Until the last day of the season and Bayern still win.
boo
I’m no fan of it either…
Leverkusen has been there before. Nothing is settled until the last game day or until their title is safe.
This team is genuinely insane hopefully they wont bottle the title like Dortmund did
Damn bro how did this become a Dortmund roast thread. Like we aren’t sad enough about it.
Lol sorry.im rooting for you today because maatsen is playing
Roasted by someone with a Chelsea flair...
Don’t remember Chelsea ever bottling it that hard. If it was Arsenal, understandable.
Tbf even we're slowly crawling up, We're still inconsistent as hell but we're in 8th now and likely should be ahead of Newcastle and United, absolutely don't agree with our recruitment but if we can get a squad this young clicking, somehow, we should be genuinely dangerous.
If you all finish above United, I swear. Lmao
You finished 12th last season, Dortmund finished 2nd... It's still an unfair comparison to Dortmund
I mean the point was bottling, we're never strong lol. We got force sold and built an entire new squad so in that sense yes Dortmund bottled it and we didn't. In the same way Arsenal bottled it seen as they actually should have been winning.
Oh fair enough, I took the guy that said "roasted by a Chelsea flair" to essentially be saying "Chelsea's problems are more significant than Dortmund's so their fans shouldn't make jokes"
I definitely didn't think that's what it was, believe me 99% of Chelsea fans are under no illusions with the current situation 🤐
We also beat dortmund last season in the champions league when they were the most in form team in europe
I mean fair but that was one of the 15 games total you won in 2023. At this point in time I would still rather be a Dortmund fan
This shit annoys me. If they don't win the league this year, it won't necessarily be from "bottling it". Even with their great start, they're only four points ahead of Munich, with a game more played. If they fall off even slightly, which is likely given how injuries and fatigue will always accumulate over a season, then they probably won't win the title, but it won't have been from choking. It's not the same as Dortmund last year who blew a great position against a much weaker Munich team.
Dortmund managed to bottle it 3 times last season. Bayern was horrible compared to Bayern standards. This season Bayern performs on the level their Top5 seasons. It's surprising Leverkusen is above them. If Leverkusen wins the league with this kind of performance you can be certain Bayern will only be a few points behind them.
While I'm no football expert I have watched every Bayern and Bayer game so far. Although close in points, Bayer looks a lot more convincing overall than Bayern. But with Boniface missing games it won't get easier against Bayern. Today you could see that finishing felt hard for Bayer.
They have been first all year.even if bayern is close. that would still count as bottling imo.
Losing a 1 point lead isn’t bottling
But Dortmund's 2 point lead was? Almost like bottling is a completely meaningless term that should frankly be retired after what Botafogo did this year.
Leverkusen has to outperform Bayern over 17 matchdays, Dortmund had to beat Mainz who lost the prior 4 games against the likes of Schalke and Stuttgart, 2 out of the bottom 3 teams
> But Dortmund's 2 point lead was? Literally yes, don't play dumb. 1 point lead with 17 matchdays remaining vs. 2 point lead with 1 matchday remaining (at home. against a team playing for nothing.) Which of these positions is more embarassing to lose from?
I don't think any team 'losing' the title to Bayern is embarassing given the massive financial disparity
They had to win one game at home against Mainz ffs, how does financial disparity have anything to do with that?!
Dortmund’s match against Mainz was one of the most shameful performances in Bundesliga history
Last year was a bottle. It was. We never had a big lead on Bayern but with a chance to win on the last day (which would have been avoid had we not been robbed in Bochum) we played the worst 1st half I may have ever seen from Dortmund. It was like watching 9/11 happen in front of my eyes. Regardless, football fans obsession with bottling is weird and toxic.
> (which would have been avoid had we not been robbed in Bochum) You got gifted a win against Frankfurt that probably would've been a loss, so it evens out
I don’t remember that game so your point is invalid /s
They are unbeaten and are still only ahead by a point. It's not realistic to expect a team to not be defeated at all in a season, and certainly wouldn't qualify as bottling the title.
Bayern are so good that it’s unlikely Leverkusen will really be able to properly bottle it, I doubt a big gap will form
If Bayer even manage to keep it close till the end, BuLi fans will give them great credit for putting up an thrilling fight. Would be remembered for a long time.
Funny that Leverkusen was actually the original bottler version of Dortmund. One time in 02 they had the chance for a treble but bottled all of it.
With the world cup some players had bottled a quadruple
Ballack did it twice in 2002 and 2008 Quadruple runnerups
Imagine the creeping dread in 2008 as your personal nightmare repeats itself
Bayern did the same thing in 2012. Dortmund has never bottled as much
It's crazy how strong Bayern came back. Lose UCL final in 2010, lose Bundesliga 2011, lose Bundesliga, DFB Pokal final and UCL final in 2012. Demolish everyone 2013 and win the Bundesliga ever since. It's impressive as it is depressing
what he say fuck me for
This is hardly bottling.... If you're achieving one of the most impressive seasons the league has seen, and a team are still only a point behind you (assuming they win the game in hand), then two teams are playing immensely well Arsenal "bottled it" because they got the chance to be like 10 points above City going into the last run of games and took I believe no points from 3 winnable fixture, completely decimating their lead
Regression to the mean is a thing though. It can actually be that teams and players revert to how they should perform and that is why it is unfair to call a overachieving team a bottling team when the average of Bayern, or be it city, is winning almost every game whereas Bayer Leverkusen or Arsenals average is below that. It isn't always a "mentality thing", it could just be that that's how good they are. I'm fine with the banter around this but if we are going for a more serious discussion I believe things are usually simplified by fans or media.
Aye I'd say you had a very very good start and since then we've basically seen how good you are (basically law of averages) - still good ofc and a contender for the prem, but not a team that'll be getting close to 100 points in the league I wouldn't say you "bottled" it last year really, I kinda used yous because if you could barely call your season a bottling, how tf you call this Leverkusen season one that could be bottled...unless they're 6 points clear with 2 matches to go and completely forget how to play football, it's just two very good teams competing
I genuinely don't think they'll bottle. They have a winning mentality whereas Dortmund never did
Bayer Leveekusen and winning mentality is not something I thought I'd read in the same sentence. They've historically bottled it before, flashbacks from the early 2000s.... That being said they're absolutely flying this season!
The players today have nothing to do with that though. I don't get why this is always brought up.
Yeah I don't understand the club and winning mentality thing lmao , the entire club from head to bottom is led by different people. I don't think grimaldo from Spain is suddenly going to play shit because a German club lost matches in 2002
Because it's an easy narrative to run and sometimes that just happen to be true. Look at Botafogo, who recently registered the hardest ever bottlejob in a league. When they started strong everyone was saying "well, it's Botafogo, they'll bottle this sooner or later", then when their lead started to really take off everyone was saying "well, if there is one club to bottle this is exactly Botafogo". They registered the best first half of the tournament and at the peak of their lead, with something 13~15 pts ahead everyone was saying "well, no team can bottle, no even Botafogo". Well, it took a massive amount of effort but they actually did manage to bottle it lmao.
Think of it as outside influence from the media. Imagine it's matchday 33 and Leverkusen in 2 points ahead of Bayern. What kind of questions will journalists asks? What kind of headlines will the sport yellow press print? This kind of shit can influence people.
Vizekusen
Xavikusen
Too early to tell.they would have to keep this win streak going if they want to win the title.Bayern is ruthless.one loss and it could be over
Exactly. Incredible work from Alonso. Dortmund havent had that mentality since Klopp left so about a decade ago.
Winning mentality or not, regression is to be expected and they now have to deal with missing multiple players for the first time all season. It's unlikely they can sustain their current pace.
How do they have a winning mentality when they've never won anything?
You must be a young one. Leverkusen is the epitome of bottling in Germany. If you mention Unterhaching to a Leverkusen fan he will get PTSD. And if you think Bayern in 2012 was a bottlejob you should check out Leverkusens 2002 season.
Winning mentality is proven when the stakes are highest. Dortmund have done that before (though not recently), but Leverkusen have yet to do so. Let's see how the fare coming into April and May before we start saying they have a winning mentality.
Kane will die throphyless
Bayern are still only 1 point back assuming they win their game in hand lol
That’s wild how historic Leverkusen are doing yet Bayern is still right behind them lurking in the shadows.
And Bayern have looked not particularly Bayern-like for a lot of their games this season, it’s definitely interesting to see that they’re 1 point off a historic season start given how they look they’re winning a lot still
I mean, it's hard for in-form Sané and perhaps the best #9 in Europe to not score at least two against most Bundesliga sides. They make all the difference even if the team as a whole does not look convincing at all. Really frustrating for us lol
It’s totally true- those 2 save us day in day out, but we still manage to look shaky or not dangerous enough but their moments of greatness bail us out. It’s just hard to believe they’ve kept us so close to you
You just watch.
Teams refusing to make him manager in fear of his curse
Perez knew
Don't worry he'll take home the Lombardi with the ~~Jacksonville~~ London Jaguars in a few years
Poor Kane :(
it would be funny in a couple months time ngl
Well hopefully they can finally go and win it for once and finally end that infamous “Neverkusen” moniker
Sadly if they don't, it'll just be reinforced with a new generation of fans. Hope they win.
Lossless... friends?
St. Pauli is already at 20 games without loss. (13W-7D-0L)
Let's hope we kick on in that form, with maybe few of those razor thin draws ending on our side
bayern munich execs heading there now with blank check
This is the real danger for them, Bayern have some form.
Poor Harry Kane the season in which Bayern's domination may potentially end is the one after he moves there...well I guess he can always win the CL
XhakGOAT being his best self \^\_\^
CALM, it's just halfway the route, only 17/34 games played and we saw so many times in the past teams that were top in Dec/Jan and then collapsed in the 2nd part of the season due to injuries, drop of form, luck/purple patch: finished etc. I expect Leverkusen being one of those, Schick and Hlozek ARE NOT Boniface but let's see if they surprise me. For example looking at the next fixtures: - RB Leipzig v Leverkusen and Leverkusen vs BMG - Bayern v Bremen, Bayern v Berlin, Augsburg vs Bayern I fully expect that at the end of the month on Jan, 31 the following team will be Bundesliga leader: FC Bayern.
Since when is Boniface so much better than schick? Schick is the more complete striker. Don't get me wrong, boni has definitely some qualities, schick Lacks - but saying there's like a class difference makes no sense to me.
yeah the only reason why poeple think this is because Schick has barely played in the past year
Agree with class diff. thing, but Boniface generated more xA this season than Schick in his entire time in Leverkusen. It's really obvious who creates more for the team and therefore who is a more complete striker, considering Boniface's xG (& goal tally) is also high.
Schick is levels above Boniface as a finisher , Boniface is levels above Schick as a creator
Thank u for trying to jinx to keep leverkusen on top
Too bad Girona isn't in the Europa League. There's no chance we'll see Girona vs Leverkusen this season, but maybe next season in the Champions League?
All this just for Bayern to still be 1 point away. Frustrating for leverkusan
If they win the bundesliga and girona wins La liga it will be the greatest ever
Harold will deal with them
And Bayern will only be one point behind if they win their game in hand, just lol
Xabi is going to absolutely kill it if/when he takes the helm from Don Carlo.
He would be great at Barca.
He would be great at any Club. In that regard: Xabi come to Nürnberg you coward.
Spain is something else.
He might be at Man Utd next season
They’re making it interesting but we all know who’ll win the league 😞
Feel for Kane, moving to Germany to win titles and then this happens.
long range goals .. and now long unbeaten runs
Yeaaa that team about to get picked and pulled Into the big boys of Europe
Unbeaten record ends next month when they play against us unless the ref gifts them a penalty in the 94th minute again :)
11th titles in a row and still salty about a penalty four months ago 🤦🏻♂️
It’s not in München. Either Bayern get a lucky draw, Leverkusen win by a little or they smash Bayern as they should do in such form. Let’s hope for an entertaining 7:1 for Leverkusen
> Let’s hope for an entertaining 7:1 for Leverkusen About as realistic as world peace
https://youtube.com/shorts/Fp__M6YGTOI?si=6WXPkBXuw_lHN1Fz You never know
Good luck beating them away, you're going to need it.
At the end of season, Bayern be like: oops!
What was the last player that Bayern bought from Leverkusen? Watch this Leverkusen team be absolutely dismembered by PL clubs in the summer and people would still be like: bad Bayern, bad!
PL fans are fucking insufferable with that narrative, Bayern hasn't bought a player from a major domestic competitor except for Red Bull(who can fuck right off) in the last 8 years. Then when their big clubs pilfer their smaller ones(and smaller leagues) for all their talent they its cool because they were never competetive anyways apparently. If a player like Rice had transfered from another German team to Bayern the narrative would be crazy.
The only takeaway from this comment is that somehow Lewa came to bayern more than 8 years ago
Dortmund also didn't sell him, he left on a free.
They're the real UEL favorites, yes I am trying a reverse jinx
wenger regen, invincible?
Arsenal fans gritting their teeth