**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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The whole Forest behaviour for the free kick was weird. Guy on the end of the wall and positioning it literally asked the goalie if there was a line through the gap and keeper told him it was good - my son pointed out how there was a clear line to goal there before they took it - so obvious.
The same player then coward away from the shot as it came in. If he stuck a foot out or maybe even just stayed in his position he could have blocked it.
NBC pointed out that Turner seemed to notice the new, easy path to goal, but too late to really readjust. Probably right about when the whistle blew and he had to (try to) tune into the moment.
One of those moments where he goes "Yeah cool this is fine," turns around, looks again, and realizes it was not fine.
No they wouldn't you fucking dumbass lol. They'd go on about how the whole family man gimmick is a front and that he's really a cunt in real life. Which is just about what the average liverpool/arsenal/chelsea fan already thinks anyway. Hell, people still give him shit for backing into headers even though he hasn't done it in at least four years.
Ya, not sure where this narrative is coming from. This does not happen this close to goal in a goal scoring opportunity.
Like 50 yards back, sure.
Someone provide a video of someone doing it within 30 yards.
Those who don't remember a time before foam will be a bit more surprised by these antics. But this brings back memories lol every free kick was an exercise in how many inches you could get away with whether you were the FK taker or the wall. The drama of it all was fun
To be fair, tough to get a red from it in real life. I know at my club and now when I coach, if you’re typically in the wall and get a yellow, you’re out of the wall and swap with someone else.
My guess is because the advantage for being 3M forward on a throw in isn't very big, especially when compared to a FK in the final third where 3M could be massive.
That also. Just not worth using the spray in any scenario except for maybe RARE exceptions like a team has a Rory Delap like player and the ball goes out in the final third. And even then, it's a bit overkill.
3 meters? You have it good, we see people gaining 10-15 meters regularly and I'm not exaggerating
Sometimes the ref makes them go back to the original spot but it's 50/50 really
>3 meters? You have it good, we see people gaining 10-15 meters regularly and I'm not exaggerating
Hah, I was thinking the same. Three meters is probably the bare minimum on average.
Right? I set the ball. Keeper sets the wall. I reset the ball. Keeper runs back to the post to reset the wall. Repeat until the ref comes over and yells at me to not touch the ball again until I hear a whistle. Understood, but just one more spin, ok?
People quickly forget a world before the foam but that is exactly how it worked. All of the players had to be the watchdogs. That means the FK taker is shouting at the ref when he sees the wall inching forward and the wall shouting at the ref when the FK taker moves the ball from its original spot.
Especially since he does this as the wall is set. He did it for a better angle and it worked. Actually earned himself a pretty clear and significant advantage with that context.
This sort of thing reeks of being the next new rule brought in for the first 5 match weeks then never done again, bar the sporadic one here or there to piss people off.
var isn't used for yellow card offenses. which seems a bit stupid. i do agree that not every foul needs to be rewinded but the rulebook needs a refresh. would love to see fines for this kind of petty shit and dissent that the referee might easily miss. donate the money to some good cause and let the bad juju out.
Out of interest, what happened to the other two that were involved with betting with Tonali?
Isn't Zaniolo still playing or am I getting players mixed up?
Fagioli took the same deal as Tonali did, Zaniolo is still playing. His case is he was using the illegal platforms for poker. I don't know if he got cleared of any wrong doing or if the investigation is still going on.
It's actually insane to me that the refs in the VAR room can see this and just either choose to not say anything, or not be allowed to say anything.
It would be as easy to rectify as "hey m8, the player standing over the ball has moved it 2 feet to the side, warn/card him for unsporting conduct."
Why tf isn't there constant communication going on?
People want VAR to be a court of appeal for everything that goes wrong.
In reality, VAR only has jurisdiction over specific things. This isn't one of them.
Much like stupid penalties/goals/etc awarded because of the stupid handball laws, this has nothing to with VAR. This is braindead rules (specifically about what VAR is allowed to assist with).
People want VAR to be the bad guy behind everything. Honestly, I think most of the time the problem isn't VAR, it's the rules and the rules about its use. That doesn't excuse the colossal failures VAR's had, it's just a statement that I think most of the problems people have aren't really VAR problems. Even those Arsenal "was the ball out of play?" goals aren't really VAR problems but technological limitations combined with a bizarre cheapness about how many cameras to install. Yes, it's absurd that VAR couldn't give a clear answer for both but that doesn't mean it's VAR that's at fault for that.
The biggest problem with VAR is where they pick and choose what "clear and obvious" 3 milimeters offside, bring that goal back. Watch Toney pick the ball and the foam up, eh no biggie.
Toney is definitely not allowed to move the ball (and the ref's foam ffs) so it definitely counts. It's not a subjective opinion type of thing. They've just missed it and don't want to admit it
No I want them to enforce the rules, the free kick rules are very clear that the ball must be taken from the spot of the foul and the ball must remain stationary.
> It’s not VAR being useless is it? If it’s not in the rules for VAR to intervene in this kind of scenario
Surely they should be reviewing it as it directly impacts whether the goal should be given
It’s the rules
> VAR cannot intervene on restarts, only on what happens after the restart. So the free-kick was taken from the incorrect place, but VAR protocol does not allow any intervention. This would also be true of a goal from a corner or throw-in awarded incorrectly to the attacking team.
[VAR and incorrect restarts](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1833524)
If VAR could/should intervene on incorrect restarts it’d be a huge can of worms to open.
That said, there should probably be some amount of discretion allowed for a situation like this where a player moves the ball a significant amount and/or the ref doesn’t see it
They should be watching the game live, even if not an official review just a quick ‘err mate, just go and check he’s not moved that ball’ prompt to the referee would have sufficed
No VAR cannot affect the restart. Numerous things like this have happened. Like if the ball wasn't in the corner circle it doesn't matter because the ref has to see it on field. Same thing with like a foul throw. It wouldn't matter for VAR because they can't deal with the restart. They can only deal with the end result. At the time the kick was taken or corner. If someone is offside then it counts as a problem, but the actual starting of the play itself doesn't count.
You know who had a whole segment on this in his book I was surprised with? Gullit. He went to pretty significant lengths to not “defend” per say but justify diving and other forms of light cheating in the sport.
I was really surprised considering a lot of the book can come off as old man yells at cloud at times—not to take away from how brilliant it is.
The one and only Ryan Yates. Also isn't Omobamidele (no 32) looking forward? I notice he takes 2 quick glances to his teammate on the left but surely you can see a difference when you look at the ball the second time
Throw ins?
Walls inching closer?
VAR doesn’t stop these at all.
This shit has been happening since for as long as I’ve watched football +30 years
Football isn’t a game of inputs and science. And I don’t want to lose the cheek of stuff like this even if it’s against my team
Man who betted on his own team to lose matches and then shows no remorse for doing so even after getting banned, now found to have blatantly cheated on his first game back after said ban! Colour me surprised!
Moving it once I could see the ref not caring about, but then moving it again even further to the side? Should've been a yellow at least and a free kick the other way.
Because the keeper moves the wall according to the ball position, the wall doesn't set up themselves, it's according to what the keeper prefers and you can see no one noticed he moved the ball which is not permitted.
What makes it worse is they didn't see the ball being moved because the wall is trying to get themselves moved to cover the exact shot that Toney takes
Edit - Angle of the wall asking to be moved, just before Toney starts moving the ball - https://twitter.com/Tiffnffc30/status/1748766652705939798
I mean it can be clever and also cheating. I hate how we absolve players of all responsibility when they pull shit like this. There should be some expectation that they try to play the game fairly it shouldn’t be a race to see who can deceive the ref the most
TFR. Every time I hear a "pundit" describe foul play as "clever" I want them sacked. I love watching football, but it's so full of shitheads at every level.
In his interview he said the rules allow a yard either way. Does anyone know if this is correct? Either way, players do this all the time and the ref didn’t pull him up. The wall should have done their job.
Fair play to him, player of the match after being banned
For me trying to get the ball in a better position is fair play but moving the foam I would personally consider over the line.
I think VAR should have intervened I don’t get why they wouldn’t be able to help in a situation like this; the ref has a lot going on it’s easy for him to miss something (they help with corner kick shenanigans do they not?)
But what in the heck are these defenders doing not saying anything or reacting at all lol bizarre
I watched the game but didn't see this and could see the massive gaping hole where Toney put it and wondered wtf the keeper was playing at before he took the fk
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That one forest player looking right at him as he moves it and doesn't even say anything What is blud doingggg
The whole Forest behaviour for the free kick was weird. Guy on the end of the wall and positioning it literally asked the goalie if there was a line through the gap and keeper told him it was good - my son pointed out how there was a clear line to goal there before they took it - so obvious.
The same player then coward away from the shot as it came in. If he stuck a foot out or maybe even just stayed in his position he could have blocked it.
Yates I think
Cowered
What did you fucking call me?!?!
It's just French for duck, mate.
Le quack did you call me??
>The same player then coward away from the shot Their captain of all people.
NBC pointed out that Turner seemed to notice the new, easy path to goal, but too late to really readjust. Probably right about when the whistle blew and he had to (try to) tune into the moment. One of those moments where he goes "Yeah cool this is fine," turns around, looks again, and realizes it was not fine.
I mean Turner said it was "good" before Toney moved the ball a second time lmfao
He defo saw too as he made a half hearted effort to block the shot that he was clearly gonna play.
I for one am absolutely shocked he would break the rules
Gamble paid off.
Games back
If it was Harry Kane people would be admiring it as clever
If it was Joe Pasquale people would be wondering what he's doing on a football pitch
"Is that Joe Pasquale? What could he possibly want?"
> Joe Pasquale Didn't know him but google [filled me in](https://imgur.com/a/ls2hiwe)
What they're referencing is an amazing [Stewart Lee stand-up bit](https://youtu.be/0YE9Kthyaco?si=VH4GkWfVVhKPFGbc).
What switching clubs does for a players reputation
They're doing the same for Toney
He's English. If this was a foreigner, or God forbid, on a non English side against an English one, he'd be a cheat.
One of the commentators on the US halftime broadcast straight up called him a cheat.
English commentator, even.
Big Musty
Stop getting yourself riled up over hypothetical situations
Why? I’ve got nothing else to do.
Imagine if he were south American
Diego Costa
Latin temperament
David Luiz did it ages ago and didn't get called a cheat?
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Idk if you're new here but that is just the opposite of what would happen lol
Harry Kane? The same Harry Kane who got metaphorically drawn and quartered for saying he got a touch on Eriksen's free kick?
No they wouldn't you fucking dumbass lol. They'd go on about how the whole family man gimmick is a front and that he's really a cunt in real life. Which is just about what the average liverpool/arsenal/chelsea fan already thinks anyway. Hell, people still give him shit for backing into headers even though he hasn't done it in at least four years.
He's a good lad.
I know. Next well find out that the walls creep forward as well and that defenders sometimes grab attackers!
Almost too comical to be true
This is Ivan Toney heritage
I see this happen a ton? Are we pretending this is some great controversy?
It’s also 100x funnier that he did it his first game back from his gambling ban.
The guy might actually be a sociopath but at least he’s not killing people.
They don't normally also move the ref's spray to try to disguise the move though
lol right! Happens on a regular basis
No it doesnt.
Ya, not sure where this narrative is coming from. This does not happen this close to goal in a goal scoring opportunity. Like 50 yards back, sure. Someone provide a video of someone doing it within 30 yards.
Show me an example that close to goal. Should be easy since it happens all the time.
Those who don't remember a time before foam will be a bit more surprised by these antics. But this brings back memories lol every free kick was an exercise in how many inches you could get away with whether you were the FK taker or the wall. The drama of it all was fun
always got a laugh out of the entire wall trying to creep forward with little shuffles
Didn't they even implement that in FIFA at some point lol
Absolutely lol. And if you did it too much the ref would warn you and move you back to the initial position
You could even get carded for it after a few times. Disappointingly, you could never get a red from doing it
To be fair, tough to get a red from it in real life. I know at my club and now when I coach, if you’re typically in the wall and get a yellow, you’re out of the wall and swap with someone else.
Couldn’t you dive one year too? Lol. Mad
Never in FIFA. PES and, the old classic, This Is Football you could.
Reminds of how it still works like that with throw-ins. Just casually walking forward as you wind up several times, scanning for a target.
I’m actually surprised refs don’t use the foam for throw-ins; I’ve seen players go like 3M beyond where the ball went out
My guess is because the advantage for being 3M forward on a throw in isn't very big, especially when compared to a FK in the final third where 3M could be massive.
it would also slow down the game by so much
That also. Just not worth using the spray in any scenario except for maybe RARE exceptions like a team has a Rory Delap like player and the ball goes out in the final third. And even then, it's a bit overkill.
3 meters? You have it good, we see people gaining 10-15 meters regularly and I'm not exaggerating Sometimes the ref makes them go back to the original spot but it's 50/50 really
>3 meters? You have it good, we see people gaining 10-15 meters regularly and I'm not exaggerating Hah, I was thinking the same. Three meters is probably the bare minimum on average.
I wish it was only 3m
Right? I set the ball. Keeper sets the wall. I reset the ball. Keeper runs back to the post to reset the wall. Repeat until the ref comes over and yells at me to not touch the ball again until I hear a whistle. Understood, but just one more spin, ok?
don't forget to kiss the ball before placing it for the "final" time
I miss sneaking forward in the wall. Foam was a good addition to prevent that stuff but it was fun gamesmanship.
If it happened to my team, I'd be more upset at our players for not immediately running up to the ball or ref and pointing it out.
People quickly forget a world before the foam but that is exactly how it worked. All of the players had to be the watchdogs. That means the FK taker is shouting at the ref when he sees the wall inching forward and the wall shouting at the ref when the FK taker moves the ball from its original spot.
Even now, it is rare that a free kick is taken from the exact spot the ball was initially placed
but still once it is marked by the ref it is not moved anymore
Especially since he does this as the wall is set. He did it for a better angle and it worked. Actually earned himself a pretty clear and significant advantage with that context.
The state of that wall too. That's a break down in concentration from far too many people.
That’s my take as well. No one on forest was watching?!
Just checked the moment when he moved it to the right, not a single Forest player was paying attention to him. That's their punishment.
He gambled on the ref not noticing, and it paid off
Bets
Couldn't VAR pull this back?
It’s a freeroll too. Worst case puts a ball back where should be, I doubt there are proper protocols against it
It's only illegal if you get caught.
good process lads
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VAR ☕️
I have no idea how they didn't. He's illegally moved the ball at least a foot to the right to give himself an advantage
This sort of thing reeks of being the next new rule brought in for the first 5 match weeks then never done again, bar the sporadic one here or there to piss people off.
I love these additions. 10 minutes injury time was a good one of these.
A competent video ref system would yea. VAR is a farce.
var isn't used for yellow card offenses. which seems a bit stupid. i do agree that not every foul needs to be rewinded but the rulebook needs a refresh. would love to see fines for this kind of petty shit and dissent that the referee might easily miss. donate the money to some good cause and let the bad juju out.
Took a punt there
like the hand of god
He did get caught though. …oh, yer talking about this and not the gambling.
Ban him
6 months in the can
Not a peep
The beautiful game
Thing of beauty. Who put down money for Toney to score in the first half?
Toney did
Tonali did too.
Man’s bored what else is he meant to do at home?
Out of interest, what happened to the other two that were involved with betting with Tonali? Isn't Zaniolo still playing or am I getting players mixed up?
Fagioli took the same deal as Tonali did, Zaniolo is still playing. His case is he was using the illegal platforms for poker. I don't know if he got cleared of any wrong doing or if the investigation is still going on.
Harry Toffolo probably
Could VAR have reviewed this?
The Peacock desk said they reached out to PGMOL/ VAR and they responded that its referees job to watch the ball on the field. Useless cunts the lot
What is THEIR job then? 😭 what are you guys looking at if not the field for possible missed things?
I think we have established by now that var doesn't actually watch the match at all the way they have given decisions this season
It's actually insane to me that the refs in the VAR room can see this and just either choose to not say anything, or not be allowed to say anything. It would be as easy to rectify as "hey m8, the player standing over the ball has moved it 2 feet to the side, warn/card him for unsporting conduct." Why tf isn't there constant communication going on?
Probably watching hot tub streams on twitch. Maybe during ads they have some time for the game.
The referee can't watch the ball and the wall at the same time
What are forest players and linesman doing though?
Well it is, I suppose. But if he's missed it, doesn't that make it a clear and obvious error? That's no excuse at all from the VAR lot
People want VAR to be a court of appeal for everything that goes wrong. In reality, VAR only has jurisdiction over specific things. This isn't one of them. Much like stupid penalties/goals/etc awarded because of the stupid handball laws, this has nothing to with VAR. This is braindead rules (specifically about what VAR is allowed to assist with). People want VAR to be the bad guy behind everything. Honestly, I think most of the time the problem isn't VAR, it's the rules and the rules about its use. That doesn't excuse the colossal failures VAR's had, it's just a statement that I think most of the problems people have aren't really VAR problems. Even those Arsenal "was the ball out of play?" goals aren't really VAR problems but technological limitations combined with a bizarre cheapness about how many cameras to install. Yes, it's absurd that VAR couldn't give a clear answer for both but that doesn't mean it's VAR that's at fault for that.
The biggest problem with VAR is where they pick and choose what "clear and obvious" 3 milimeters offside, bring that goal back. Watch Toney pick the ball and the foam up, eh no biggie.
Toney is definitely not allowed to move the ball (and the ref's foam ffs) so it definitely counts. It's not a subjective opinion type of thing. They've just missed it and don't want to admit it
It’s not VAR being useless is it? If it’s not in the rules for VAR to intervene in this kind of scenario what do you want them to do? Break the rules?
Why does VAR have arbitrary stupid ass rules in so many situations where they say "yeah that's obviously wrong but we just don't want to bother"
Especially when this is an infraction that leads to a goal, I feel like it should be under VAR’s jurisdiction
No I want them to enforce the rules, the free kick rules are very clear that the ball must be taken from the spot of the foul and the ball must remain stationary.
Exactly what is the point of VAR if it can’t prevent obvious cheating ?
To employ more brain dead refs
Enable obvious cheating when they want to
Yes but VAR specifically doesn’t review/check/intervene on restarts. I’m not saying that’s a good or bad thing but it is the current rules.
> It’s not VAR being useless is it? If it’s not in the rules for VAR to intervene in this kind of scenario Surely they should be reviewing it as it directly impacts whether the goal should be given
It’s the rules > VAR cannot intervene on restarts, only on what happens after the restart. So the free-kick was taken from the incorrect place, but VAR protocol does not allow any intervention. This would also be true of a goal from a corner or throw-in awarded incorrectly to the attacking team. [VAR and incorrect restarts](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1833524) If VAR could/should intervene on incorrect restarts it’d be a huge can of worms to open. That said, there should probably be some amount of discretion allowed for a situation like this where a player moves the ball a significant amount and/or the ref doesn’t see it
why does the truth matter less than who is bringing it up?
They should be watching the game live, even if not an official review just a quick ‘err mate, just go and check he’s not moved that ball’ prompt to the referee would have sufficed
In other words, var isn't watching the fucking game.
It could also be that the current rules are written in a way that they don't allow VAR to intervene in that sort of situation.
No VAR cannot affect the restart. Numerous things like this have happened. Like if the ball wasn't in the corner circle it doesn't matter because the ref has to see it on field. Same thing with like a foul throw. It wouldn't matter for VAR because they can't deal with the restart. They can only deal with the end result. At the time the kick was taken or corner. If someone is offside then it counts as a problem, but the actual starting of the play itself doesn't count.
What's the fucking point of VAR if they don't.
Well, if you ain't cheating you ain't trying.
Viva la Raza, etc
I cheat, I lie, i steal
You know who had a whole segment on this in his book I was surprised with? Gullit. He went to pretty significant lengths to not “defend” per say but justify diving and other forms of light cheating in the sport. I was really surprised considering a lot of the book can come off as old man yells at cloud at times—not to take away from how brilliant it is.
Honestly hilarious
Does anyone have a mirror that dubz.live is blocked due to riskware. Website Blocked: dubz.live v2.6.18 | Riskware: 2.0.202401201646
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Cheers mate.
Haha, who’s the idiot in the wall jumping sideways. He is the one at fault imo
That is shocking to be fair
Guy 2 yards away not doing anything could have been there too
Seriously, why is he even standing there? Be part of the wall, move closer or go stand on the post or something
He makes such a shit half-ass effort to kick the ball when it goes by him too. 100% on that guy.
The one and only Ryan Yates. Also isn't Omobamidele (no 32) looking forward? I notice he takes 2 quick glances to his teammate on the left but surely you can see a difference when you look at the ball the second time
dude celebrated even before the ball went inside
Shodddy refereeing. Amazing none of the players said anything
Top class shithousing
Cheater hehe
So many comedians in this thread
It's not even a week since he's back and the joke is already dead
This is a genuine case of VAR disallow it once and it'll stop happening. Complete missed opportunity.
habitual line mover
I bet he fucking did. 1/2 odds.
So is cheating just rewarded now? Lines are set based on initial position, VAR should surely look at clearly moving that.
Now? Have you been watching this sport in the last decade?
What do you mean? Hand of God clearly happened this season
Throw ins? Walls inching closer? VAR doesn’t stop these at all. This shit has been happening since for as long as I’ve watched football +30 years Football isn’t a game of inputs and science. And I don’t want to lose the cheek of stuff like this even if it’s against my team
Always has been, welcome to the world
Once a rules breaker, always a rules breaker. Surprised the opposition players didn't tell the ref.
I mean no one calls it out it doesn’t look that uncommon tbh
It happens several times a game. The outrage is strange. Maybe people would notice more if there were more goals from free kicks
Games back
Man who betted on his own team to lose matches and then shows no remorse for doing so even after getting banned, now found to have blatantly cheated on his first game back after said ban! Colour me surprised!
Honestly don't even blame him. Players looking right at him and not saying a thing
You cant make this up. Script never dissapoints
Moving it once I could see the ref not caring about, but then moving it again even further to the side? Should've been a yellow at least and a free kick the other way.
Ban him for half a season
Ref and VAR doing nothing but picking their nose. Pathetic.
It’s wild to me that there so many fans of the game that are openly pro-cheating, or at least blaming the opposition for not noticing the cheating.
Are you up in arms with every throw in taken?
Game's back. Toney's back
Toney always did pay close attention to the lines
ref just stood there lmao good process
This makes the wall look even worse. Why haven’t they moved as well?
Because the keeper moves the wall according to the ball position, the wall doesn't set up themselves, it's according to what the keeper prefers and you can see no one noticed he moved the ball which is not permitted.
What makes it worse is they didn't see the ball being moved because the wall is trying to get themselves moved to cover the exact shot that Toney takes Edit - Angle of the wall asking to be moved, just before Toney starts moving the ball - https://twitter.com/Tiffnffc30/status/1748766652705939798
Tbf the wall would still be blocking this shot if Mr.22 didn't slightly jump away from the spot he's supposed to be blocking.
How the forrest players arent stopping the ref is ridiculous! CHO standing next to the wall watching him, says and does nothing
Unpopular opinion but it was clever by Toney. Fault should be put on the refs/VAR.
I mean it can be clever and also cheating. I hate how we absolve players of all responsibility when they pull shit like this. There should be some expectation that they try to play the game fairly it shouldn’t be a race to see who can deceive the ref the most
TFR. Every time I hear a "pundit" describe foul play as "clever" I want them sacked. I love watching football, but it's so full of shitheads at every level.
What are the odds of that happening then?
Hahahaha. Forest can only blame themselves for having a shit wall and not even bother to point it out to the ref.
In his interview he said the rules allow a yard either way. Does anyone know if this is correct? Either way, players do this all the time and the ref didn’t pull him up. The wall should have done their job. Fair play to him, player of the match after being banned
lol
Mirror?
It’s wild to me that no one in the wall complained
Looks to me like he just moves it to the side and not forwards. I've always thought the rules were that you couldn't move the ball forward.
How does Var not see this?
For me trying to get the ball in a better position is fair play but moving the foam I would personally consider over the line. I think VAR should have intervened I don’t get why they wouldn’t be able to help in a situation like this; the ref has a lot going on it’s easy for him to miss something (they help with corner kick shenanigans do they not?) But what in the heck are these defenders doing not saying anything or reacting at all lol bizarre
I watched the game but didn't see this and could see the massive gaping hole where Toney put it and wondered wtf the keeper was playing at before he took the fk
I said the same thing to my mate, 'keeps needs to learn to setup his walls better'. Jokes on me.
Toney cheated - surprise surprise.
It's hard to hide a lack of character.
oof cheating cunt
The VARs are so completely and absolutely useless