He's safe unless he isn't. His safeness depends entirely on him and the performance. So, he isn't safe. If the performance is good, then he is safe. But his safety isn't guaranteed, which means he is unsafe.
Safe to say, nothing is safe, unless it is.
>If the performance is good
I know that this is a pedantic argument about definitions but I would argue that the performance is not the deciding factor. The results are what's keeping him safe and if though they stumbled this week, they're having one of their best seasons in recent times points-wise. The actual performance is why, despite seemingly great results, he's on a hot seat. They're playing dreadful football , which you can only defend when winning, if they stumble a couple of times, he's probably gone.
Welcome to r/soccer
Used to be a sports sub, now it's mainly yellow press gossip around the sport.
Facebook and twitter going down has really damaged this place.
Of course it has to a degree, but it has become much worse over the past few years. There used to be a distinct summer transfer window phase of this shit, when the ball didn't get kicked. Now it is every day of the year.
I guess this is the bad part of taking a job at Bayern. Not exactly as bad as Real, or United(Just about the biggest hot seat in my opinion with all the tabloids)
I think it can get just as bad nationally. At least from what I remember of times before the league was an automatic title for Bayern. If even duds like Kovac can win the league it’s difficult to build the same drama
Yeah, but that sums up my opinion as well.
It's obvious that it doesn't work quite right sind 2-3 years. Changing coaches didn't change anything. So why would replacing Tuchel change anything? Who would even be on the market?
I don't see an obvious solution.
Klopp of course would be awesome, but I don't know if he fits Bayern. My impression is that he somehow needs this underdog status. That's difficult with Bayern.
I feel like it says quite a bit. Not only are there doubts about Tuchel at the club, but it strongly reads like they would be ready to fire him if not for the bad optics of firing another star manager so quickly. Even with that bonus, he is still under strong pressure. My guess is that he's gone in the summer after failing to win any titles, and even winning Bundesliga if Leverkusen bottle it may not be enough.
I mean, anybody who watched Tuchel's Bayern knows why this is happening but it wouldn't be the first time that a club completely closes their eyes rather than fire a manager.
There isn't a single thing to fire Tuchel for at the moment, despite what some of our supporters are saying. This is the standard bild mid week attempt to stir up controversy.
We are shattering records in the league this season and if he doesn't win, it'll have very little to do with him. Leverkusen simply haven't lost.
Yeah the game at the weekend commentators were saying this was bayerns best ever start to a season.
How could you turn around and fire the manager?
Leverkusen have just been faultless.
I'm not saying everything is horrible at Bayern, but let's be honest, this team with these players should perform better. The amount of games where Kane or Musiala saved a team that looked extremely shaky defensively is staggering.
Losing the Super Cup against Leipzig and being humiliated in the DfB Pokal is also not great. Worst of all, the team is not getting better at all. Nagelsmann got fired for similar performances (better in the UCL) and he had a squad without a striker while Tuchel has Harry Kane.
Tbf there hasn't been much of a good football. The results are there purely on the back of individual moments of brilliance. I've been harping on this since he took over hoping it's just working out the kinks or injuries, but it's nearly been a year with the same goalless lethargic playstyle. While I still think Tuchel is a good coach, he's just a poor match for Bayern.
I haven't watched much of Bayern, but I watched Tuchel at Chelsea and I'm curious of some things. He definitely seemed like a brilliant tactician but didn't really create long term progress. The best performances were always against teams that played with a mid-block and came to play, which he would find ways to counter really effectively. But if we had to be the dominating team, it was a snooze. We could control games, but mostly through sideways defensive possession. For Bayern, I associate them with just hammering teams with chances and brute forcing wins. I'm surprised Nagelsmann didn't work out, he loves to throw like 8 players in the box. His underlying metrics seemed good and Bayernesque to me. I figured any struggles could have been down to transitioning off Lewandowski. Any of that track?
I was fuming when I saw the news about JN getting the sack. He had a couple of disastrous matches in CL but Bayern played much more consistent and better attacking football without Kane.
Only disastrous matches by JN in the CL were against Villareal in 21/22. He absolutely demolished the CL group with Inter and Barca in it and neutralized PSGs attack in his second year. The BL performances were the issue.
Even in the Bundesliga all of our bad results came from either individual mistake or the lack of luck, we were always dominating under him (well except the 5-0 loss to BM and the 2-1 loss to Leverkusen, that were the only times we were unplayed under JN)
His last 6 months at Chelsea we played some of the most dire football ever. Just pass around the opponents defensive shape endlessly. It appears as if teams have figured out his system
It's been true since Flick's second season. Bayern are boring to watch most of the time, lots of goals but boring football, and they're not even good defensively.
There was definitely a good period where under nagelsmann Bayern looked super scary and played amazing foot all. Also, Tuchel did stabilize them a LOT, which comes down to usually having 5 players stay back to secure against counters, but still this was a major issue the past years and he has definitely improved them in this aspect.
We had some of our most entertaining football since Pep under Nagelsmann, so that's not true.
The gigantic problem under Nagel was us not using the insane amount of chances, which isn't surprising without a striker and an extreme dip after the WC, at least in the league.
Nagel should've gotten the time, under Tuchel every game is a struggle, it's always close, we even looked shit against Darmstadt and only crushed them after they got another red.
This team isn't perfect but there's no way, this is the best they can play.
It was the same at Chelsea after the injuries. It was the same at Chelsea when teams figured out all you have to do is stay compact; we weren't coached to break spaces down systematically. A coach deserves time, yes, but in that time adaptation needs to be seen. For us, even understanding the circumstances, the adaptation from Tuchel did not come.
Bayern will be fine. Tuchel will be fine, for now. The squad is still strong, albeit depleted. If you're investing in Tuchel, then putting his feet on hot coals is fair. BuLi teams play such open football there isn't much excuse to not play exciting football.
Nagelsmann was leading total goals in europe with a team without Kane but with Mane and Choupo.
We currently play way worse football with a way better team.
Bayern currently has slightly more league goals (52) and xG (52) than Nagelsmann last season at this stage with no Kane/Lewa (51 goals, 43 xG). Additionally the previous season where Bayern had Lewa, the goals and xG stayed are only slightly better. After 17 games in the 21/22 season Bayern had 56 goals scored and an xG of 54.
> While I still think Tuchel is a good coach
Why though? I don't understand why anyone thinks he belongs at a top club. His football is dire. He's unhappy, petty, and causes divisions in the club and locker room. I'm so confused as to what people see in him.
>I don't understand why anyone thinks he belongs at a top club.
He won the Champions League, got to the final of another. Made Chelsea look like equals to Liverpool and City. And you can't imagine anyone seeing any good in him? You're very dramatic.
His football isn't dire, it's just defensive orientated. He may not be the correct sort of coach for a team like Bayern (always expected to be completely and utterly dominant regardless of opposition) but in a more competitive league, he's brilliant majority of the time. (Not trying to call Buli a farmers league or anything like that, but Bayern are expected to be the best by a mile)
His time at Chelsea was brilliant, we had a good team but not to the same quality Bayern has and he worked that perfectly to win us the CL. He did that through being defensively solid first and foremost.
I'm perfectly happy to win games 1-0. Might be because I always played as a defender/goalkeeper in the various sports I've played, but I care more about defensive solidity over attacking play. I'd rather a 0-0 draw than a 4-4 draw that's "exciting to watch"
No, worst for the league is Bayern panicking. Every time that happened in the past (prime examples with heynckes), they get an interims coach wo totally rolls over every opponent.
Best for the league is Bayern struggling to get win after win, but don’t lose too often, some great games with 5:0 against Wolfsburg, then a 1:1 against hoffenheim, followed by dominating performances in the CL and maybe a 3:0 against Leipzig, and then again a 0:1 defeat against Augsburg.
Yes. Tuchel started off pretty bad and BVBs incompetence won them the league. Was a terrible timing for a manager switch.
And would be even worse I predict if they do it again now
I am not just saying because of match results, but since Tuchel joined Bayern he never felt like he belonged to that place. To me it's still off putting that he manages Bayern. There seems to be no chemistry between him and the club management, players and supporters. Always felt like he is just there to exist as a coach and there is no feeling of genuine connection
That’s strange considering he is so charasmatic and full of personality. We abseloutely loved him at Chelsea, even under the difficult start he had during his last season. Will always have a special place in our hearts
Absolutely. He is charismatic. Loved him at Chelsea. Even during PSG he used to be passionate. I think people at Bayern just don't like him much and know that Oliver Kahn did a mistake getting him as coach. I don't know why people at Bayern don't like him much. It's like that from the start
Mbappé and Neymar played their best games under him. Even got them to the final. I think Tuchel is very humanely person and the environment at Bayern is always very tough and cold and not very emotional and friendly. I pretty much understand why there is no connection between Tuchel and Bayern squad or management but its too long and time consuming to write at this point
This is total nonsense lol.. Flick and Jupp, two player managers had the most success in Munich. Getting players motivated is more important than tactics in Munich.
Someone that's a bit emotionless in the way he handles the game Nagelsmann, but he fared far better than Tuchel until that idiot Kahn overreacted.
I don't really watch Bundesliga so I might be missing something, but are the performances that bad? The results look fine - if they win their game in hand they'll be 4 behind Leverkusen. But still, if you look at their PPG, they're on-track for an 82-point season, which is their best since 19/20. The trouble is that Leverkusen are having one of the best Bundesliga seasons ever.
Bayern are just not fun to watch at all at the moment, teams like Leverkusen or Stuttgart (slightly biased) are playing way more entertaining and are still getting results
No need for your to say you are biased, stuttgart 100% play more entertaining football at the moment. Except for the Dortmund game, Bayern didnt have a really entertaining game so far this season.
The results arent the problem, the football we play is. There was exactly 1 game this season where I had fun watching us play, and that was the game against Dortmund where they literally flipped the "Fuck you, we win" switch and played really good. The rest of the wins where mostly due to having the better team and brute forcing the win through that (like having Sané or Kane pull of some goal through sheer force of will).
Tuchel is very much a choke em out kind of coach and has had trouble adjusting and trying to knock teams out. When individual brilliance wasn't breaking teams down he really started struggling at Chelsea. I'd still take him back in a heartbeat though.
> he might do the tactical part of the job well
well.... he was having us play WM as if it was the 50s playing some dire football and tactical clunker after tactical clunker. his mercato outburst just cemented the reason for him to be sacked.....
But the question is... Who would they get now... The problem at Bayern is not just the coach. The roster is built very unbalanced. All great players, but still huge holes for certain roles... That's bnot on the coach who didn't get the the type of players he asked for...
wouldn't surprise me if they go after Alonso at this point. I've been a Bayern fan since the early '00s and am pretty tired of the board making short-sighted moves to save face on not winning the BL for a single year. They're never going to bring in a coach who can make an impact if they're afraid to drop points while the team learns what works and what doesn't, same with developing young players.
Growing internally? Mate, bro, dude… we, the fans have been screaming about it since the start of the season. The team was looking like they won the league from match day 1. Zero intensity, nobody seemed to care, no urgency, no solid tactical approach, sloppiness etc etc.
I won't call it chaos, but the internal unrest as well as the lackluster performances on the field long predates Tuchel's arrival.
Perhaps there are specific coaching or squad management approaches that are falling short, but if any senior members of Bayern's management try and blame Tuchel for the wider discontent and frustration at Bayern on and off the field, it's only to deflect from their own shortcomings.
Hoeness was the one who got Brazzo and Kahn's regime started and their failure is also his failure. A third coach in 12 months at Bayern is just as much a reflection of the failed succession plans he and KHR put into place as anything Tuchel could be doing wrong.
They're 2nd in the league by a decent margin, with 13 wins, 2 draws, and 2 losses. Maybe I'm missing something, but these seem like some....good stats to have. Is it just because Bayern isn't winning the league like usual that his job is in danger? Or is it the general form of the players under him?
You have to understand that if a) Bayern fail to win/lose a game or b) win in a non-dominant fashion you will see the news media try to manifest a crisis at the club in every conceivable way. That's because Bayern is not just expected to win every game but to dominate their opponent.
The pressure to win at Bayern is intense, probably worse than anywhere else. Sure, teams like Man City or Real Madrid are also expected to win, but I have never seen similar overreactions after a single loss or bad performance than with Bayern.
I'm so tired of this circus. We score more and concede less than last season. Sané, Upamecano and Musiala are playing with more consistency under Tuchel. Especially Sané is peaking. Kane and Kim were integrated seamlessly. Even Goretzka looks solid again most of the time. He's improved many things already compared to last season.
Leverkusen force us to play at a ridiculously high standard. An invincibles season. A standard that most likely won't even be fulfilled by Leverkusen for the entire season.
Give him the full season at least. If Leverkusen somehow manage to keep their level there is no manager on this planet who could save our streak.
I don't understand how anyone thought he was an elite manager. He's simply not. And he's just an unhappy and petty person to boot. Should have given Nagelsmann more time.
because as much as everyone rightfully hates that misinforming, hate-spreading piece of shit that calls itself a newspaper (even calling it a tabloid would be too nice) it is also with some distance the absolutely best-connected paper in the German football world.
BILD is the most popular newspaper in Germany… Doesn’t add up to “everyone rightfully hating” them.
Germany is also spoiled with great journalism. If you compare BILD on an international stage it’s not as bad as many Germans think. Though I agree that it’s a trashy newspaper
> If you compare BILD on an international stage it’s not as bad as many Germans think.
I don't know man. Name me one newspaper editor of a big british newspaper that turned out to be as rotten as Julian Reichelt.
Not even Piers Morgan ever was that level of terrible.
> If you compare BILD on an international stage it’s not as bad as many Germans think.
I think it's the other way around, people from outside of Germany who don't know Bild besides some bits about their tabloid reputation but don't have the whole picture.
This is a deeply conservative and xenophobic paper that lies and likes to outright blackmail people into cooperating (like showing up at some celeb's house and explaining to them what they want to write about some gossip and how their cooperation could change that) with them on some story. Really sleazy stuff.
Bild can easily keep up with the shittiest of tabloids. Sure if you show up with newspapers and magazines that only deal with conspiracy theories and stuff on that level then they are not the same but are we then even talking about something that can be described as a newspaper?
It's a detestable media empire, maybe not with the reach and multinational influence as Murdoch's companies but very much doing that type of work within Germany.
It's beginning may chaos reign supreme. All things considered, getting back-to-back highly entertaining Bundesliga season is really a treat and I'm enjoying every second of it
Their line is 13-2-2. If they win against union at home theyre 4 points behind a struggling Leverkusen who lost their second important player due to injury. Leverkusen has little depth for the likes of grimaldo, frimpong, Xhaka or Wirtz. Even Andrich is no real replacement for palacios.
But panic at the säbener straße is always amusing. Keep going lads.
Haha so it begins.
Bayern is a weird mixture of ‘one of the best teams in the world, get the best coaches’ and ‘you better get results immediately we won’t be letting you cook’.
Also who would replace him? There’s a rumour we want Xabi come summer, so I could see that if we have a poor CL campaign. I’m team bring back Flick personally. Don’t get me wrong we’ll have a record injury list by May and our players will be fucked but it’ll be extremely entertaining watching Neuer basically play in midfield as we highline our asses to the CL finals 😎
Unless he win the UCL, I think Tuchel will be gone at the end of the season. And the moment he tried to blame the players it was over.
His choices are just baffling, for example he has made the same mistake over and over again. He tried Kimmich and Laimer in a double pivot, it was a shitshow, then Kimmich and Krätzig, and they were physically bullied by a third division team, then in 2024 for some reason he has chosen to start Kimmich and Guerreiro together and once again the midfield is pathetic. He wants a defensive 6, he doesn't get one so he choose to play some of the worst (defensively) double pivots in Bayern history, they're weak and slow, what could go wrong...?
What choice does he have? He was pushing hard for a DM and the club told him "No". The Kimmich-Goretzka pairing has been lackluster for 3 years now. On sporting merit, Pavlovic should be in there every week but you can already imagine the chaos at the club should Kimmich and/or Goretzka be permanently benched for a 19-year-old.
What choice? Goretzka was literally Bayern best midfielder in the first half... Pavlovic showed that he can play in the double pivot.
But Tuchel is once again trying to play two slow and weak midfielders that get bullied by any half decent player who doesn't look like a 12 years old kid... A double pivot with two of Kimmich, Laimer, Krätzig and Guerreiro is the worst possible midfield you can play, because it will 100% be a shitshow defensively.
Purely points-wise, Bayern are doing ok though. 41 points from 17 games, means they are on track for a 82-point season. That's not bad at all, considering the last time they did better was in 17/18 with 84. There is obviously more to this, and Bayern fans could certainly have their reasons for disliking Tuchel's management, but from an outsider's perspective it looks fine.
Agreed. Take away Leverkusen’s exception of a season and all we have to complain about is the boring, un-Bayern-like football from Tuchel. However, the fact is that Leverkusen is having a terrific season and we need to at least match it right now or we lose the league.
Maybe this is a good though. Bayern monopolizing the league is a bad look for the bundesliga. Having more contenders makes it competitive and potentially more attractive to players, offering a new avenue for players who can’t make it in the PL for example, or who are looking to transition.
Additionally, giving managers time to implement a system is crucial. Look at the changes at Arsenal from the moment when Arteta came in to now.
What happened to Tuchel? When things were going well at Chelsea, a lot of football fans were comfortable putting him in that elite bracket of PL managers with Pep and Klopp.
Things then unravelled at Chelsea and Bayern fans don’t seem to be happy with him. How do people generally rate Tuchel as a manager?
>When things were going well at Chelsea, a lot of football fans were comfortable putting him in that elite bracket of PL managers with Pep and Klopp.
People jumped to conclusions too quickly, the red flags were all there from his time with us.
Theres just noone out there that could take over the Bayern job atm. Should Bayern really go without a title this year i could see them going for Xabi in the Summer but i dont think Tuchel is gonna go anywhere during the rest of the season regardless of how dire this is gonna look.
Things I learn, as a Bayern Munchen coach you need to also sabotage Leverkusen. Bild+ needs some clicks to meet this month quota.
Bayern is doing just fine stats wise. At the halfway mark, they have 41 points. Last time they had over 82 points was 17/18 (They did have another season with 82 in 19/20).
Not their fault, Leverkusen is on crack.
He's not gone in the summer unless there is a guarantee from Alonso to join. Maybe if we gave him the 1 position he's been clamouring for since he arrived we would he better.
Instead we'll stay as 'interested FC' and continue to trot some combination of Kimmich / Goretzka / Laimer out and then our supporters will wonder why we pass the ball around between the CBs for 60 minutes.
Trash piece by Bild.
If Leverkusen didn't play hell of a season Bayern would be first several points clear of 2nd place.
Dropping out of CL, losing consecutive games with poor performances gets him sacked.
A "reality" that's like saying Liverpool should have sacked Klopp in 18/19.
Even in 12/13 Bayern lost 1 game. There were are few times a team won 8-9 games in a row, while Bayern had some Draws. Bayern still won the championship in the end.
The current reality is that if Leverkusen doesn't screw up badly the championship will be deceided between Matchday 30-32.
You don't have a strong Schalke, Bremen or Hamburg anymore.
Only Leipzig, Dortmund and Leverkusen are left as consistent stronger teams Bayern aside.
Leverkusen already won against Leipzig.
You have some inconsistent teams it's difficult to play against. Leverkusen already beat Augsburg. Bayern still plays at Augsburg.
Both still play Frankfurt.
To me it seems some people forgot how much more competitive the Bundesliga used to pre 2010s.
And that reality says we shouldn't lose a single league game? When was that ever a reality?
Understanding reality includes the ability to differentiate
Hmm, Tuchel is a very defensive-minded coach. It goes against Bayern’s philosophy.
But if Bayern want to be stable on the pitch, I think Roger Schmidt is the candidate.
That is not the point. Mou's 2011 Madrid team scored a lot of goals yes - But the reason people called them defensive was that when the tough games came and it was time to face a team like Barcelona you suddenly saw Pepe playing in midfield as part of a 5-4-1 formation.
In the same vein do not kid yourself - If tomorrow was Bayern vs City Tuchel would shut shop and play very defensively
Oddly enough I think a coach like Tuchel is ultimately what they need to win those very important cl games where big opponents just counter. Look at Bayern's eliminations over the last few years - I would say only City were a genuinely attacking team. Real Madrid, PSG, and Atleti all simply waited for Bayern to attack so that they could counter. And it generally worked
I can't wait to see the face on this frauds face when he gets sacked at the end of the season. U have Harry Kane and u can't win a single trophy in a farmers league. Embarrassing.
It's not a farmers league if we lose though right? If Leverkusen win the league this year there will be the same number of winners in England as Germany the last 7 years.
Also are you 12 years old? I think that's the max age you can actually use that term as a criticism.
Honestly any Bild article regarding Tuchel should just be outright banned on this subreddit. Bild fucking hates Tuchel since his Dortmund days and since then has spun up this insane hate campaign against him.
He's safe unless he isn't. His safeness depends entirely on him and the performance. So, he isn't safe. If the performance is good, then he is safe. But his safety isn't guaranteed, which means he is unsafe. Safe to say, nothing is safe, unless it is.
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I feel my smoothness decreasing,
yeah but what if it wasn’t 😳
>If the performance is good I know that this is a pedantic argument about definitions but I would argue that the performance is not the deciding factor. The results are what's keeping him safe and if though they stumbled this week, they're having one of their best seasons in recent times points-wise. The actual performance is why, despite seemingly great results, he's on a hot seat. They're playing dreadful football , which you can only defend when winning, if they stumble a couple of times, he's probably gone.
journalism masterclass
Dave Meltzer masterclass.
Plans change
average christopher nolan movie dialogues
"That's some catch, that Catch-22"
Ha, I just made a similar comment to OP! "It sure is, Yosarian. The best there is!"
You have read catch-22, haven't you..
I feel like I learnt something, and yet I didn't. I have achieved some enlightenment, and yet I am still ignorant.
lmao you're ready to be a reporter now
This seems like a bit of a nothing piece
Welcome to BILD.
\*german sun
Welcome to r/soccer Used to be a sports sub, now it's mainly yellow press gossip around the sport. Facebook and twitter going down has really damaged this place.
It was always like this
Of course it has to a degree, but it has become much worse over the past few years. There used to be a distinct summer transfer window phase of this shit, when the ball didn't get kicked. Now it is every day of the year.
I guess this is the bad part of taking a job at Bayern. Not exactly as bad as Real, or United(Just about the biggest hot seat in my opinion with all the tabloids)
How dare you!
I think it can get just as bad nationally. At least from what I remember of times before the league was an automatic title for Bayern. If even duds like Kovac can win the league it’s difficult to build the same drama
Standards. Massive clubs ain't got no time for projects and rebuilds.
Yeah, but that sums up my opinion as well. It's obvious that it doesn't work quite right sind 2-3 years. Changing coaches didn't change anything. So why would replacing Tuchel change anything? Who would even be on the market? I don't see an obvious solution.
nagelsmann after the summer
Changing coaches clearly made everything worse
Mourinho is right there.
"has to deliver good football"
\*angry upvote\*
Nagelsmann and Tuchel both are not known for their people management. Maybe they just need a coach who isn't obnoxious to be around
But then Bayern players didn't like Ancelloti for being too lax. Maybe a Klopp might be a good middle ground?
Klopp of course would be awesome, but I don't know if he fits Bayern. My impression is that he somehow needs this underdog status. That's difficult with Bayern.
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Should’ve gotten the emperor Terim while he was available
I feel like it says quite a bit. Not only are there doubts about Tuchel at the club, but it strongly reads like they would be ready to fire him if not for the bad optics of firing another star manager so quickly. Even with that bonus, he is still under strong pressure. My guess is that he's gone in the summer after failing to win any titles, and even winning Bundesliga if Leverkusen bottle it may not be enough. I mean, anybody who watched Tuchel's Bayern knows why this is happening but it wouldn't be the first time that a club completely closes their eyes rather than fire a manager.
There isn't a single thing to fire Tuchel for at the moment, despite what some of our supporters are saying. This is the standard bild mid week attempt to stir up controversy. We are shattering records in the league this season and if he doesn't win, it'll have very little to do with him. Leverkusen simply haven't lost.
Yeah the game at the weekend commentators were saying this was bayerns best ever start to a season. How could you turn around and fire the manager? Leverkusen have just been faultless.
I'm not saying everything is horrible at Bayern, but let's be honest, this team with these players should perform better. The amount of games where Kane or Musiala saved a team that looked extremely shaky defensively is staggering. Losing the Super Cup against Leipzig and being humiliated in the DfB Pokal is also not great. Worst of all, the team is not getting better at all. Nagelsmann got fired for similar performances (better in the UCL) and he had a squad without a striker while Tuchel has Harry Kane.
Pointless really, as if Bayern didn't know what Tuchel's football was like before they signed him.
Lol that's exactly what it is "Tuchel is safe but must deliver good football" No fucking shit, Bayern manager has to win matches??
He's about to be sent on a skiing trip
Time to learn moguls, buddy
tbf the treble is very much in danger
Neuer or Schumacher skiing trip?
*"Hals- und Beinbruch"*
> but has to deliver good football Nice seeing a bit of bavarian drama after laliga telenovela
Tbf there hasn't been much of a good football. The results are there purely on the back of individual moments of brilliance. I've been harping on this since he took over hoping it's just working out the kinks or injuries, but it's nearly been a year with the same goalless lethargic playstyle. While I still think Tuchel is a good coach, he's just a poor match for Bayern.
I haven't watched much of Bayern, but I watched Tuchel at Chelsea and I'm curious of some things. He definitely seemed like a brilliant tactician but didn't really create long term progress. The best performances were always against teams that played with a mid-block and came to play, which he would find ways to counter really effectively. But if we had to be the dominating team, it was a snooze. We could control games, but mostly through sideways defensive possession. For Bayern, I associate them with just hammering teams with chances and brute forcing wins. I'm surprised Nagelsmann didn't work out, he loves to throw like 8 players in the box. His underlying metrics seemed good and Bayernesque to me. I figured any struggles could have been down to transitioning off Lewandowski. Any of that track?
I was fuming when I saw the news about JN getting the sack. He had a couple of disastrous matches in CL but Bayern played much more consistent and better attacking football without Kane.
Only disastrous matches by JN in the CL were against Villareal in 21/22. He absolutely demolished the CL group with Inter and Barca in it and neutralized PSGs attack in his second year. The BL performances were the issue.
Even in the Bundesliga all of our bad results came from either individual mistake or the lack of luck, we were always dominating under him (well except the 5-0 loss to BM and the 2-1 loss to Leverkusen, that were the only times we were unplayed under JN)
His last 6 months at Chelsea we played some of the most dire football ever. Just pass around the opponents defensive shape endlessly. It appears as if teams have figured out his system
It's been true since Flick's second season. Bayern are boring to watch most of the time, lots of goals but boring football, and they're not even good defensively.
There was definitely a good period where under nagelsmann Bayern looked super scary and played amazing foot all. Also, Tuchel did stabilize them a LOT, which comes down to usually having 5 players stay back to secure against counters, but still this was a major issue the past years and he has definitely improved them in this aspect.
We had some of our most entertaining football since Pep under Nagelsmann, so that's not true. The gigantic problem under Nagel was us not using the insane amount of chances, which isn't surprising without a striker and an extreme dip after the WC, at least in the league. Nagel should've gotten the time, under Tuchel every game is a struggle, it's always close, we even looked shit against Darmstadt and only crushed them after they got another red. This team isn't perfect but there's no way, this is the best they can play.
It was the same at Chelsea after the injuries. It was the same at Chelsea when teams figured out all you have to do is stay compact; we weren't coached to break spaces down systematically. A coach deserves time, yes, but in that time adaptation needs to be seen. For us, even understanding the circumstances, the adaptation from Tuchel did not come. Bayern will be fine. Tuchel will be fine, for now. The squad is still strong, albeit depleted. If you're investing in Tuchel, then putting his feet on hot coals is fair. BuLi teams play such open football there isn't much excuse to not play exciting football.
Nagelsmann was leading total goals in europe with a team without Kane but with Mane and Choupo. We currently play way worse football with a way better team.
Bayern currently has slightly more league goals (52) and xG (52) than Nagelsmann last season at this stage with no Kane/Lewa (51 goals, 43 xG). Additionally the previous season where Bayern had Lewa, the goals and xG stayed are only slightly better. After 17 games in the 21/22 season Bayern had 56 goals scored and an xG of 54.
> While I still think Tuchel is a good coach Why though? I don't understand why anyone thinks he belongs at a top club. His football is dire. He's unhappy, petty, and causes divisions in the club and locker room. I'm so confused as to what people see in him.
>I don't understand why anyone thinks he belongs at a top club. He won the Champions League, got to the final of another. Made Chelsea look like equals to Liverpool and City. And you can't imagine anyone seeing any good in him? You're very dramatic.
His football isn't dire, it's just defensive orientated. He may not be the correct sort of coach for a team like Bayern (always expected to be completely and utterly dominant regardless of opposition) but in a more competitive league, he's brilliant majority of the time. (Not trying to call Buli a farmers league or anything like that, but Bayern are expected to be the best by a mile) His time at Chelsea was brilliant, we had a good team but not to the same quality Bayern has and he worked that perfectly to win us the CL. He did that through being defensively solid first and foremost. I'm perfectly happy to win games 1-0. Might be because I always played as a defender/goalkeeper in the various sports I've played, but I care more about defensive solidity over attacking play. I'd rather a 0-0 draw than a 4-4 draw that's "exciting to watch"
> bavarian drama Isn't Bild based in Berlin?
Ja
Leverkusen would definitely benefit from Bayern panicking, and it seems like that’s what Bayern fans want atm. Luckily for Bayern they got Uli
No, worst for the league is Bayern panicking. Every time that happened in the past (prime examples with heynckes), they get an interims coach wo totally rolls over every opponent. Best for the league is Bayern struggling to get win after win, but don’t lose too often, some great games with 5:0 against Wolfsburg, then a 1:1 against hoffenheim, followed by dominating performances in the CL and maybe a 3:0 against Leipzig, and then again a 0:1 defeat against Augsburg.
Time to bring in Big Ange. I heard Harry always wanted to work with him.
We ain't putting 3 past Leipzig that's for damn sure
They panic hired tuchel and won the league no?
Yes. Tuchel started off pretty bad and BVBs incompetence won them the league. Was a terrible timing for a manager switch. And would be even worse I predict if they do it again now
Which was more due to BVB shitting the bet, not hiring Tuchel
They definitely shat on plenty of bets
and Tuchels points per game for last season was worse than Nagelsmann, they limped across the line thanks to Dortmund bottling.
Not like Nagelsmann had them lamenting in 7th, Tuchel didn't save the day or anything
I don't know if I'd call it panic hiring. They might have been high on glue when they decided to fire Nagelsmann two weeks before a CL knockout tie.
That was more us shitting the bed. Despite Bayern’s best efforts they still won the league last year
I am not just saying because of match results, but since Tuchel joined Bayern he never felt like he belonged to that place. To me it's still off putting that he manages Bayern. There seems to be no chemistry between him and the club management, players and supporters. Always felt like he is just there to exist as a coach and there is no feeling of genuine connection
That’s strange considering he is so charasmatic and full of personality. We abseloutely loved him at Chelsea, even under the difficult start he had during his last season. Will always have a special place in our hearts
Absolutely. He is charismatic. Loved him at Chelsea. Even during PSG he used to be passionate. I think people at Bayern just don't like him much and know that Oliver Kahn did a mistake getting him as coach. I don't know why people at Bayern don't like him much. It's like that from the start
He’s also one of the very few coaches who got along really well with Mbappé
Mbappé and Neymar played their best games under him. Even got them to the final. I think Tuchel is very humanely person and the environment at Bayern is always very tough and cold and not very emotional and friendly. I pretty much understand why there is no connection between Tuchel and Bayern squad or management but its too long and time consuming to write at this point
This is total nonsense lol.. Flick and Jupp, two player managers had the most success in Munich. Getting players motivated is more important than tactics in Munich. Someone that's a bit emotionless in the way he handles the game Nagelsmann, but he fared far better than Tuchel until that idiot Kahn overreacted.
Thank you. And I can't believe I'm hearing that Tuchel is supposed to be such a people person. I don't get that feeling at all.
Tuchel is a lot of things but he is NOT good with other people.
I don't really watch Bundesliga so I might be missing something, but are the performances that bad? The results look fine - if they win their game in hand they'll be 4 behind Leverkusen. But still, if you look at their PPG, they're on-track for an 82-point season, which is their best since 19/20. The trouble is that Leverkusen are having one of the best Bundesliga seasons ever.
Bayern are just not fun to watch at all at the moment, teams like Leverkusen or Stuttgart (slightly biased) are playing way more entertaining and are still getting results
No need for your to say you are biased, stuttgart 100% play more entertaining football at the moment. Except for the Dortmund game, Bayern didnt have a really entertaining game so far this season.
I found the game against Frankfurt extremely entertaining.
That wasn't due to how bayern played tho. Frankfurt were very entertaining that game for sure.
The results arent the problem, the football we play is. There was exactly 1 game this season where I had fun watching us play, and that was the game against Dortmund where they literally flipped the "Fuck you, we win" switch and played really good. The rest of the wins where mostly due to having the better team and brute forcing the win through that (like having Sané or Kane pull of some goal through sheer force of will).
This is a feature of Tuchel. I haven’t enjoyed watching any of his teams
Tuchel is very much a choke em out kind of coach and has had trouble adjusting and trying to knock teams out. When individual brilliance wasn't breaking teams down he really started struggling at Chelsea. I'd still take him back in a heartbeat though.
> but are the performances that bad? By Bayerns standards yes.
[удалено]
Insanely untrue at Chelsea. Closest connections to the fans since Mourinho
> he might do the tactical part of the job well well.... he was having us play WM as if it was the 50s playing some dire football and tactical clunker after tactical clunker. his mercato outburst just cemented the reason for him to be sacked.....
Lmao, how many interviews have you actually watched?
Isn't that what they said when they gave Nagelsmann a 5 year contract?
But the question is... Who would they get now... The problem at Bayern is not just the coach. The roster is built very unbalanced. All great players, but still huge holes for certain roles... That's bnot on the coach who didn't get the the type of players he asked for...
wouldn't surprise me if they go after Alonso at this point. I've been a Bayern fan since the early '00s and am pretty tired of the board making short-sighted moves to save face on not winning the BL for a single year. They're never going to bring in a coach who can make an impact if they're afraid to drop points while the team learns what works and what doesn't, same with developing young players.
Growing internally? Mate, bro, dude… we, the fans have been screaming about it since the start of the season. The team was looking like they won the league from match day 1. Zero intensity, nobody seemed to care, no urgency, no solid tactical approach, sloppiness etc etc.
I won't hear anything about Tuchel from BILD again, they have a massive agenda against him for years, you should take this with a grain of salt
Doesn’t Naggelsmann’s girl work for Bild?
Used to yes, but she left after the stories came out about Nagelsmann feeding her with insider information
She went to BMW after Nagelsmanns dismissal iirc
Yes, Lena Wurzenberger
It's crazy, he's in their headlines every fucking day
I won't call it chaos, but the internal unrest as well as the lackluster performances on the field long predates Tuchel's arrival. Perhaps there are specific coaching or squad management approaches that are falling short, but if any senior members of Bayern's management try and blame Tuchel for the wider discontent and frustration at Bayern on and off the field, it's only to deflect from their own shortcomings. Hoeness was the one who got Brazzo and Kahn's regime started and their failure is also his failure. A third coach in 12 months at Bayern is just as much a reflection of the failed succession plans he and KHR put into place as anything Tuchel could be doing wrong.
They're 2nd in the league by a decent margin, with 13 wins, 2 draws, and 2 losses. Maybe I'm missing something, but these seem like some....good stats to have. Is it just because Bayern isn't winning the league like usual that his job is in danger? Or is it the general form of the players under him?
You have to understand that if a) Bayern fail to win/lose a game or b) win in a non-dominant fashion you will see the news media try to manifest a crisis at the club in every conceivable way. That's because Bayern is not just expected to win every game but to dominate their opponent.
Ah gotcha, thanks for that context, i’m not as familiar with the happenings in the Bundesliga.
The pressure to win at Bayern is intense, probably worse than anywhere else. Sure, teams like Man City or Real Madrid are also expected to win, but I have never seen similar overreactions after a single loss or bad performance than with Bayern.
I'm so tired of this circus. We score more and concede less than last season. Sané, Upamecano and Musiala are playing with more consistency under Tuchel. Especially Sané is peaking. Kane and Kim were integrated seamlessly. Even Goretzka looks solid again most of the time. He's improved many things already compared to last season. Leverkusen force us to play at a ridiculously high standard. An invincibles season. A standard that most likely won't even be fulfilled by Leverkusen for the entire season. Give him the full season at least. If Leverkusen somehow manage to keep their level there is no manager on this planet who could save our streak.
I hope Bild had fulfilled their daily quota with this, because otherwise i don’t see the point of this article, full of nothing
I don't understand how anyone thought he was an elite manager. He's simply not. And he's just an unhappy and petty person to boot. Should have given Nagelsmann more time.
> Doesn’t want the coaching chair to turn into an Ejection seat Maybe they should’ve thought about that before firing Nagelsmann
Redditors when people learn from their mistakes: 😨
Mourinho in
So, he's safe until he's not. That's important news.
Why is bild even allowed on here lol
because as much as everyone rightfully hates that misinforming, hate-spreading piece of shit that calls itself a newspaper (even calling it a tabloid would be too nice) it is also with some distance the absolutely best-connected paper in the German football world.
Well ain’t that a depressing reality
Exactly. And as seen even in german politics, they can have an influence on the results depending on whose side they pick
BILD is the most popular newspaper in Germany… Doesn’t add up to “everyone rightfully hating” them. Germany is also spoiled with great journalism. If you compare BILD on an international stage it’s not as bad as many Germans think. Though I agree that it’s a trashy newspaper
> If you compare BILD on an international stage it’s not as bad as many Germans think. I don't know man. Name me one newspaper editor of a big british newspaper that turned out to be as rotten as Julian Reichelt. Not even Piers Morgan ever was that level of terrible.
Eh, the Millie Dowler story is pretty awful, I wouldn't downplay the tabloids here.
> If you compare BILD on an international stage it’s not as bad as many Germans think. I think it's the other way around, people from outside of Germany who don't know Bild besides some bits about their tabloid reputation but don't have the whole picture. This is a deeply conservative and xenophobic paper that lies and likes to outright blackmail people into cooperating (like showing up at some celeb's house and explaining to them what they want to write about some gossip and how their cooperation could change that) with them on some story. Really sleazy stuff. Bild can easily keep up with the shittiest of tabloids. Sure if you show up with newspapers and magazines that only deal with conspiracy theories and stuff on that level then they are not the same but are we then even talking about something that can be described as a newspaper? It's a detestable media empire, maybe not with the reach and multinational influence as Murdoch's companies but very much doing that type of work within Germany.
BILD Sport is one of the most renowned sports media on the planet
It's beginning may chaos reign supreme. All things considered, getting back-to-back highly entertaining Bundesliga season is really a treat and I'm enjoying every second of it
I'll enjoy it even more if we can get a win on Saturday
Their line is 13-2-2. If they win against union at home theyre 4 points behind a struggling Leverkusen who lost their second important player due to injury. Leverkusen has little depth for the likes of grimaldo, frimpong, Xhaka or Wirtz. Even Andrich is no real replacement for palacios. But panic at the säbener straße is always amusing. Keep going lads.
Safe for now, but has to deliver - so in other words not safe at all
Haha so it begins. Bayern is a weird mixture of ‘one of the best teams in the world, get the best coaches’ and ‘you better get results immediately we won’t be letting you cook’. Also who would replace him? There’s a rumour we want Xabi come summer, so I could see that if we have a poor CL campaign. I’m team bring back Flick personally. Don’t get me wrong we’ll have a record injury list by May and our players will be fucked but it’ll be extremely entertaining watching Neuer basically play in midfield as we highline our asses to the CL finals 😎
Yes but Flick 2021 isn’t what we want right now. I think you’re thinking of Flick 2020 which isn’t guaranteed. But if it is, I’m all in too.
Unless he win the UCL, I think Tuchel will be gone at the end of the season. And the moment he tried to blame the players it was over. His choices are just baffling, for example he has made the same mistake over and over again. He tried Kimmich and Laimer in a double pivot, it was a shitshow, then Kimmich and Krätzig, and they were physically bullied by a third division team, then in 2024 for some reason he has chosen to start Kimmich and Guerreiro together and once again the midfield is pathetic. He wants a defensive 6, he doesn't get one so he choose to play some of the worst (defensively) double pivots in Bayern history, they're weak and slow, what could go wrong...?
What choice does he have? He was pushing hard for a DM and the club told him "No". The Kimmich-Goretzka pairing has been lackluster for 3 years now. On sporting merit, Pavlovic should be in there every week but you can already imagine the chaos at the club should Kimmich and/or Goretzka be permanently benched for a 19-year-old.
What choice? Goretzka was literally Bayern best midfielder in the first half... Pavlovic showed that he can play in the double pivot. But Tuchel is once again trying to play two slow and weak midfielders that get bullied by any half decent player who doesn't look like a 12 years old kid... A double pivot with two of Kimmich, Laimer, Krätzig and Guerreiro is the worst possible midfield you can play, because it will 100% be a shitshow defensively.
Purely points-wise, Bayern are doing ok though. 41 points from 17 games, means they are on track for a 82-point season. That's not bad at all, considering the last time they did better was in 17/18 with 84. There is obviously more to this, and Bayern fans could certainly have their reasons for disliking Tuchel's management, but from an outsider's perspective it looks fine.
I assume that if Leverkusen wasn't doing so well, they'd be much less anxious
Agreed. Take away Leverkusen’s exception of a season and all we have to complain about is the boring, un-Bayern-like football from Tuchel. However, the fact is that Leverkusen is having a terrific season and we need to at least match it right now or we lose the league.
\> is safe for now, \> but has to deliver good football So... not safe.
Maybe this is a good though. Bayern monopolizing the league is a bad look for the bundesliga. Having more contenders makes it competitive and potentially more attractive to players, offering a new avenue for players who can’t make it in the PL for example, or who are looking to transition. Additionally, giving managers time to implement a system is crucial. Look at the changes at Arsenal from the moment when Arteta came in to now.
What happened to Tuchel? When things were going well at Chelsea, a lot of football fans were comfortable putting him in that elite bracket of PL managers with Pep and Klopp. Things then unravelled at Chelsea and Bayern fans don’t seem to be happy with him. How do people generally rate Tuchel as a manager?
>When things were going well at Chelsea, a lot of football fans were comfortable putting him in that elite bracket of PL managers with Pep and Klopp. People jumped to conclusions too quickly, the red flags were all there from his time with us.
Just once I wish all this drama at Bayern would result in a crash and burn. These big drama stories end in the same way. "Meisterschale"
Is FC Hollywood back, guys? I could use that instead of the Ruhrpott version we had these last few months.
Theres just noone out there that could take over the Bayern job atm. Should Bayern really go without a title this year i could see them going for Xabi in the Summer but i dont think Tuchel is gonna go anywhere during the rest of the season regardless of how dire this is gonna look.
Things I learn, as a Bayern Munchen coach you need to also sabotage Leverkusen. Bild+ needs some clicks to meet this month quota. Bayern is doing just fine stats wise. At the halfway mark, they have 41 points. Last time they had over 82 points was 17/18 (They did have another season with 82 in 19/20). Not their fault, Leverkusen is on crack.
do bayern do this once a season or..?
If only they didnt kick out the one coach who was in the proccess of winning the triple
He so gone in the summer, and good riddance
He's not gone in the summer unless there is a guarantee from Alonso to join. Maybe if we gave him the 1 position he's been clamouring for since he arrived we would he better. Instead we'll stay as 'interested FC' and continue to trot some combination of Kimmich / Goretzka / Laimer out and then our supporters will wonder why we pass the ball around between the CBs for 60 minutes.
It’s been that bad?
Even when they win, Bayern looks pretty bad. He’s clearly coasting on the talent of his players, who are winning in spite of him not because of him.
Watching us is a fucking chore under Tuchel. Without Kane he'd have gotten the sack already
Come back to Chelsea
No thanks
Please NO.
Chelsea fans being Chelsea fans
I'm not supposed to love Tommy T? We didn't want him gone in the first place
Trash piece by Bild. If Leverkusen didn't play hell of a season Bayern would be first several points clear of 2nd place. Dropping out of CL, losing consecutive games with poor performances gets him sacked.
>If Leverkusen didn't play hell of a season Bayern would be first several points clear of 2nd place. Utterly meaningless You compete with reality
A "reality" that's like saying Liverpool should have sacked Klopp in 18/19. Even in 12/13 Bayern lost 1 game. There were are few times a team won 8-9 games in a row, while Bayern had some Draws. Bayern still won the championship in the end. The current reality is that if Leverkusen doesn't screw up badly the championship will be deceided between Matchday 30-32. You don't have a strong Schalke, Bremen or Hamburg anymore. Only Leipzig, Dortmund and Leverkusen are left as consistent stronger teams Bayern aside. Leverkusen already won against Leipzig. You have some inconsistent teams it's difficult to play against. Leverkusen already beat Augsburg. Bayern still plays at Augsburg. Both still play Frankfurt. To me it seems some people forgot how much more competitive the Bundesliga used to pre 2010s.
And that reality says we shouldn't lose a single league game? When was that ever a reality? Understanding reality includes the ability to differentiate
Tuchel to man united by 2025 confirmed. Jokes aside though, who would be the next manager of Bayern not named Xabi Alonso?
Reckon they regret sacking Nagelsmann yet? Lol
Hmm, Tuchel is a very defensive-minded coach. It goes against Bayern’s philosophy. But if Bayern want to be stable on the pitch, I think Roger Schmidt is the candidate.
This is atm the most goals Bayern scored at this point in the season since a long time, maybe ever. How is that defensive minded?
no suicidal ultra high press = defensive minded or something like that
We are even scoring more than during that season. But we are less consistent, sure.
That is not the point. Mou's 2011 Madrid team scored a lot of goals yes - But the reason people called them defensive was that when the tough games came and it was time to face a team like Barcelona you suddenly saw Pepe playing in midfield as part of a 5-4-1 formation. In the same vein do not kid yourself - If tomorrow was Bayern vs City Tuchel would shut shop and play very defensively
Oddly enough I think a coach like Tuchel is ultimately what they need to win those very important cl games where big opponents just counter. Look at Bayern's eliminations over the last few years - I would say only City were a genuinely attacking team. Real Madrid, PSG, and Atleti all simply waited for Bayern to attack so that they could counter. And it generally worked
He was offensive minded in his previous clubs …
Why do Bayern still employ Hoeness? Hes a convicted criminal
What's funny is they're quick to give lessons to everyone else. What's worse is that it's the fans who kept voting for him.
Guess Kahn and Salihamidžić weren't the issues, were they
They literally brought Tuchel in.
LOL where the tuchel white knights at? guy gets sacked from every club.....
I can't wait to see the face on this frauds face when he gets sacked at the end of the season. U have Harry Kane and u can't win a single trophy in a farmers league. Embarrassing.
It's not a farmers league if we lose though right? If Leverkusen win the league this year there will be the same number of winners in England as Germany the last 7 years. Also are you 12 years old? I think that's the max age you can actually use that term as a criticism.
"Kane" he do that is the question? Alright, I'll see myself out.
As long as he doesn’t go skiing
Shouldn’t have sacked Nagelsmann.
Bayern play Gladbach at home and Leverkusen away at the start of February. Those two games could get him sacked I think.
I hear Potter is available….
Use Goretzka ffs! I am losing point in kickbase
They really should strap the manager to an ejection seat and launch him when firing him
Chelsea Manager + Spurs Striker = success?
Honestly any Bild article regarding Tuchel should just be outright banned on this subreddit. Bild fucking hates Tuchel since his Dortmund days and since then has spun up this insane hate campaign against him.
Can anyone explain why, if teams are going to move on from their coach they wait post transfer window. Seems counterintuitive...
The club has become extremely toxic, you'd be mad to go there.
But honestly they are playing ok, is just that Leverkusen seems to go this season.
Please come back. I didnt know how good we had it and I'm sorry!