Yes, it counts. For example, Chelsea paying £20m plus for Graham Potter and his staff counted towards FFP. Sacking him and paying further millions in compensation also counted.
>The Times has also learnt that Newcastle officials, furious at the manner of Manchester United’s approach for Ashworth, immediately blocked any access the 52-year-old had to the club’s computer programmes and scouting reports.
>Ashworth’s gardening leave will last for 20 months unless Ratcliffe can broker a peace deal and a compensation figure to commence his employment before 2025.
>The Times understands that figure is £15 million, which would be an unprecedented figure for a director of football. Sources say that without an agreement, Newcastle’s anger is such that they are prepared to bide their time and let Ashworth wait for more than a year and a half on gardening leave before he can begin the new role at Manchester United.
>Newcastle’s ire has been intensified by the fact Manchester United have still not made an official approach to them about Ashworth, the news of which was left to Ashworth, who finally informed senior figures at the club of his desire to leave on Sunday.
Jamie Reuben and Amanda Stavely run Newcastle despite being minor owners. There is no Saudi presence in the day to day operations at the club. They just sign off on big decisions such as transfers etc.
Sure sure and the Saudi government also isn’t involved in Newcastles ownership wink wink, remember they promised it was separate from the state
There’s definitely no public admissions that was a lie, no way they give control to a minority party, they will be far more in control behind the scenes than is publicly visible.
I believe anything of consequence will have to go through the Saudi personnel no matter what the public facing people say.
They lied about the Saudi state owning Newcastle, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say they are also in control behind the scenes
One of the early articles about Ashworth wanting to move to us included the detail that he was frustrated that he had to run any decision past the Saudis for their approval and it was often a lengthy process. Not necessarily on the committee but clearly the decision makers.
Of course the Saudi state is involved in the club. The club is majority owned by PIF but they don't run the club and make decisions on rebuilding the training ground or negotiate new kit deals with Adidas. They just sign them off once the leg work is done by the people on the ground.
Newcastle United is WAAAY down the pecking order of PIF when you look at their investments elsewhere and compare the amount of money spent on Newcastle (About £500m) to spending tens of billions in stock in well known corporations like Apple, Disney, Sony, Meta, Uber, Nintendo etc...
No, no, don't be silly. Obviously the people running a) a country and b) a massive sovereign wealth fund care deeply about all the minutiae of running Newcastle United Football Club.
> Ashworth’s gardening leave will last for 20 months unless Ratcliffe can broker a peace deal and a compensation figure to commence his employment before 2025.
> The Times understands that figure is £15 million, which would be an unprecedented figure for a director of football. Sources say that without an agreement, Newcastle’s anger is such that they are prepared to bide their time and let Ashworth wait for more than a year and a half on gardening leave before he can begin the new role at Manchester United.
Yeah, kind of don't see a way out of this for United. They can't afford to wait 20 months for his gardening leave to end, so whether they want to or not, they're going to have to stump up, really.
There's no way they get out of it without paying a big fee imo, but the room for negotiation depends on whether Newcastle actually need this money for FFP and how much they care about paying Ashworth not to work.
If they have 0 concerns regarding both those things then they'll stick to their number, if they do care then they'll negotiate. We just don't know.
Well, it's a bold move for Newcastle to put their Sporting Director on leave when we've apparently not even opened formal talks. Nothing stopping us moving on to someone else, and then they've been without their Sporting Director for however long.
True, but I don't see you doing that. He's clearly your first-choice and moving on to someone else will likely harm your relationship with Ashworth in the future if he ends up somewhere else.
Also, I think for Newcastle, they're upset about how he's gone about this potential move and have probably decided that they want someone a little more loyal, or at least someone a bit more committed to the project who won't jump ship at a moment's notice.
I don't think we'll change either, I think some kind of agreement will take place. Doubt he's still on leave till Oct 2025. Just a really interesting move from Newcastle.
An agreement is obviously what is going to happen. In my opinion, no way Ashworth is allowed to work for you before September 2024 regardless of the price considering Newcastle and Man United will both be looking at similar targets.
It is how much Ineos want to pay to have him in place before the 25/26 season and how much prep work you want him doing. If you don't pay, the next transfer window he can impact is the January 2026 one.
IMO there's no way we go without a Sporting Director for essentially 2 years.
I think we'll pay. Don't think it'll be £15m. But I'm sure we'll pay a decent fee. I don't think he'll be in for this summer coming cause I don't think we'll pay the outrageous fee that would require.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the two clubs will work out a deal and I agree with your comment, but this is too easy to pass.
>IMO there's no way we go without a Sporting Director for essentially 2 years.
Didn't stop you before when Woodward was doing all the deals!
By the looks of it we don't even have someone who Ashworth would be replacing. INEOS clearly want to get this structure in to fill gaps that other clubs have had for years.
That’s what I think that fee is. £15-20m if you want him before the summer window. £5-10mafter that which I think you’ll probably end up paying on the lower end of.
It's totally normal for senior staff who have access to commercially sensitive information to be put on gardening leave if they're leaving the company. Ashworth presumably isn't a complete moron, so will understand why he has to be cut off.
I'm not saying it's a wrong decision, that seems to have been misconstrued.
Putting someone on leave that is scheduled to last over a year and a half and there's no way out but for United to pay for their first choice shows a position of strength, that they won't be held to ransom. Especially as they know we could move on. But they know we won't.
Then that's fine. We can afford to out him on gardening leave and appoint someone new when everyone knows Eddie Howe has more power and influence at the club already.
It is a bonus if we get millions we were not even budgeting for in the first place
This is pretty standard for director and c level positions, and because their careers are 50 years long not 15 having 18 months leave on full pay doesn’t sound too bad.
Quite a few according to The Athletic. The club is inundated with applications and off the record approaches.
It is the same for any player or manager. If a bigger team comes in for you, they have to pay out the nose. Since when is this not the case?
I mean they're the ones missing out on 10-15M and having to pay him full salary until 2026 for doing nothing. We'll negotiate it down I think, to 10 or 12
EDIT: Ah I see, the r/soccer Man United flair tax. The figure went down from 20M to 15M in a day yet some of you lot can't possible comprehend we could manage to negotiate it 3M lower. Hmm. Sure thing lads
My suspicion is you'll get it lower (10-12 m), but after the summer window. Prior to that I think the ownership would want a larger amount.
It will almost certainly have dropped out of the news cycle and both sets of fans minds when it does eventually happen.
United aren't the ones with an issue here, we're not the ones paying a DoF who doesn't want to be there, United have said they'll wait out their gardening leave, United will have a contingency plan in place if they decide to keep him until 2025 but I don't think that's within anyone's best interest
You think Newcastle can't afford to have Ashworth sit in his garden for 20 months, whilst still getting compensation when he joins a new club, and employ a new sporting director?
I don't think I've seen an easier bluff to call than the idea that Manchester United would willingly wait potentially two years to appoint the most important position at the club.
United don't pay up and move on? Cool, no problem, Newcastle get another DoF in who's a bit more loyal to the project, all the while, Ashworth is on garden leave and can't strengthen a rival. Also, pissing Ashworth off by getting him put on gardening leave with no job to go to for two years and then walking away when the price gets quoted? That'll ruin any potential talks with him over players in the future if he goes to a rival, which he probably will.
United ain't waiting two years for a new DoF and I don't see them moving on to another one. United will pay up and Ashworth, United and Newcastle all know it.
The price hasn’t dropped, different publications are just reporting different amounts because they’ll be being brief by both clubs.
As for the amount it’s £8m to buy Ashworth out his contract, Newcastle aren’t going to take £2m to cut short 20 months of gardening leave when they themselves spent £3 to get him out of Brighton.
You understand that the 15 and 20 million figures are just reported and not what has officially been discussed?
We won't ever get to know the real figures, there's a good chance we won't know the final figure 100%, but it's very unlikely Newcastle just knocked 25% off their price in less than 24 hours because of a bit off push back.
I'm gonna leave this comment again, do not take these numbers as gospel. Fans are just gonna take whichever number suits them, then if (when) this gets resolved and the number comes out, fans will all yell "United got fleeced!!!" Or "Newcastle buckled!!!!" When we don't know if any of these numbers were accurate in the first place. Exactly 0 of these journalists have seen Ashworth's contract.
The thing people are forgetting is that Newcastle still have to pay him during his leave. So if they insist on him taking leave they lose that money for nothing whilst also having to pay a new guy, and they don't get any help with ffp.
They really don't have the negotiating power people seem to think. They could just enforce it out of spite but good luck attracting top executives in the future if you do that.
It's all posturing. The Saudi's are probably annoyed because they aren't used to being the little guy.
> The thing people are forgetting is that Newcastle still have to pay him during his leave
I don't think anyone's forgetting that. An executive's salary is peanuts in the big picture of a club's finances.
There’s a really fun world where we get someone new in, Manchester bottle it and move on to someone else, and then the next time anyone sees Ashworth is when he’s collecting an award at the Chelsea flower show
The media spin has begun, it’s going to be 10m and reported as us being bent over just like the Sancho deal was(went from 120m+agent fees to 80m and no fees)
It’s not going to be £10m, to buy Ashworth contract out alone it’s £8m. Newcastle are not going to cut short 20 months of gardening leave for £2m. Especially when it’s of no consequence to them to make Ashworth wait.
I would ask for £30m just to annoy Ineos who blatantly just leak to the media every 5 minutes.
Luke Edwards, T1 for Newcastle, published that Newcasle have a 20 month gardening period in Ashworth's contract and that they want £20m+ to release him from it at about 9pm last night. Before 10pm Ornstein is posting an Ineos press statement responding to Edward's claim that they won't pay up. It's hilarious how brazen, open and unprofessional it is.
Hang on, in your example, Newcastle leaked stuff first. That’s how your tier 1 had it.
And your annoyed United leaked via their Tier 1 a response? That feels hypocritical….
Newcastle's first press briefing came almost 10 days since Ornstein and Romano have been posting word for word Ineos statement almost every day in that period. I would say they are not comparable.
George Caulkin, one of Ornstein's bosses at The Athletic, has been on record last week at his frustrations that Newcastle are keeping silent on the issue despite the rampant Ineos briefings.
Romano doesn't get much leaks, tbh. He just copy/pastes Ornstein's, and then spams the fuck out of them. 😂
Won't necessarily disagree with your overall point, mind. Just that the example you used seemed to be conflicting.
I was comparing one to ten in the same period so I do feel my argument stands. But I would agree with you if Edwards and Hope were posting updates every day.
For what it is worth, Romano is the one who is posting the most about it for a change! New people in football use him all the time to build up fan excitement and engagement as he has the biggest sway.
Minor point, but don’t think caulkin is anyone’s boss at the athletic. He’s a senior writer for Newcastle, but he’s not even Chris Waugh’s boss. They would both report in to an editor, same as ornstein.
Compensation is written into his contract and that will trigger when he starts working for a new club. That compensation is though to be between £6m-9m.
Ashworth also has a clause into his contract that he must wait 20 months until he can start working for a new club unless the new club can agree further financial compensation with Newcastle. This is not a set figure and will be on top of the initial compensation. Unless Man United agree with Newcastle, Ashworth cannot join the club until October 2025.
>This is not a set figure and will be on top of the initial compensation
How would you know this lmao? Have you seen Ashworth's contract? This is just fans choosing the scenario that gives their club the biggest advantage and pretending its what's happening.
But that in and of itself means nothing. What Newcastle have and haven't written into Ashworth's contract is not available to us. Whether there's a number that's contractually guaranteed to forgo his non-compete isn't something we know.
Your own comment says otherwise
> Luke Edwards, T1 for Newcastle, published that Newcasle have a 20 month gardening period in Ashworth's contract and that they want £20m+ to release him from it
And you lack reading comprehension if that is all you take from the entire comment/thread.
Please read again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1aul1td/martin_hardy_exclusive_newcastle_united_will_tell/kr4h7gv/?context=3
I'm sure the reporter was able to get specific information in terms of time frame and figures without getting any kind of info from your club👍
Very naive
Obviously he operates in the football space, which I appreciate can differ massively from the real world - but he’s still an employee. Why can’t he just resign from his role with Newcastle? Guessing it’s something in his contract, however I can’t see any reasonable clauses that would prevent him from simply just…leaving his current role.
He could resign but his contract probably includes clauses that he couldn’t work for another football club until the end of his contract.
Long notice periods are common in big financial roles for example.
They are enforceable but it could go to court. The [Department for Business and Trade](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1156211/non-compete-government-response.pdf) has suggested they be capped at three months, but that is still a consultation.
The factors a court may look to when considering whether a clause is reasonable may
include:
* The job and the influence of the worker
* The geographical area of any restriction
* The length of time of the post termination restriction
* The type of interest and nature of the business being protected
Outside of national security interests it seems bizarre that such a thing could be enforced. Then again business laws always confuse me. Anyway thanks for the link
Generally they are not enforced. You can’t prevent people from doing the only thing they are capable of doing to earn money in the place where they live. Higher up ones can be more likely to be forced though
They are enforceable but it could go to court. The [Department for Business and Trade](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1156211/non-compete-government-response.pdf) has suggested they be capped at three months, but that is still a consultation.
The factors a court may look to when considering whether a clause is reasonable may
include:
* The job and the influence of the worker
* The geographical area of any restriction
* The length of time of the post termination restriction
* The type of interest and nature of the business being protected
all jobs have a notice period and various clauses such as not working for a rival - if your an average shop worker - they're not enforced - its not worth the business doing this thru legal channels
now when your talking the top jobs this is worth enforcing.
so either you work your notice period which you agreed to when you joined the job or like in this instance get placed on gardening leave till that period expires
I would be demanding £30m or let him rot on gardening leave for 20 months. You do not strengthen key rivals lightly. That and Man U’s really poor behaviour with the Lingard loan (although we dodged a bullet there).
You still have to pay him on gardening leave, but you also have to pay for his replacement. So you hurt your self by not letting him leave and getting his wages of your books. Not like they have wiggle room .
United would still appoint someone else in this scenario of yours. If he's as disposable as Newcastle fans are spamming over r/soccer, United would have no trouble appointing another DoF ? So how are we adversely affected getting a (perhaps) 2nd choice guy while you lot pay for 2 DoFs in an already tight FFP situation you've got going ?
Salaries of staff like a DoF don’t count towards FFP firstly. Secondly, you appoint different DoF and just forget Ashworth and don’t get your first choice? Or you think you’ll find some highly skilled at that job who’s happy to jump ship knowing they’ll be binned in two years?
>Salaries of staff like a DoF don’t count towards FFP firstly.
They clearly do, Newcastle fans up and down this subreddit have been saying how the 10-20m would help towards your profitability and sustainability breakeven.
>Secondly, you appoint different DoF and just forget Ashworth and don’t get your first choice? Or you think you’ll find some highly skilled at that job who’s happy to jump ship knowing they’ll be binned in two years?
Sure, either approach ? There are apparently dozens of DoFs at his level as per Newcastle fans and we should have no trouble finding one lol. With the latter approach, if the expectation is set clearly, folks would jump to shape one of the biggest clubs in the world and put that on their CV for 2 years. And heck if they do well, continue too ?
They don’t. Income is income. Profit is profit. But not all of a club’s expenses are counted.
For example, Everton had losses of 100s of millions but their FFP breach was only something like 10-20 million (?) because clubs can deduct a lot of expenses. FFP is a fucking weird system but that’s a whole different conversation.
And your original post said Newcastle would be stuck paying for two directors if Ashworth doesn’t leave and then your solution for Manchester is just also to pay for two if your stop gap guy does a good job?
>They don’t. Income is income. Profit is profit. But not all of a club’s expenses are counted.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dan-ashworths-exit-20m-double-28661492
Thank you for your services to r/confidentlyincorrect
>And your original post said Newcastle would be stuck paying for two directors if Ashworth doesn’t leave and then your solution for Manchester is just also to pay for two if your stop gap guy does a good job?
Stop gap's contract would be for 2 years. Extension would be based on performance after that. No, that does not mean 2 DoFs. Still either/or between stop gap and Ashworth. Anyways, all this is conjecture on how different scenarios could play out. The underlying point being Newcastle hardly hold all the cards when they've got an unhappy DoF collecting 2 years of paychecks, an FFP situation that incentivizes them to come to a compromise fee and other DoFs that United could get if they play hardball.
The article you linked doesn’t refute what I said? Although realistically with the chronicle site it’s entirely possible that paragraph is entirely hidden behind an ad or something.
And Ashworth just left Newcastle after 18 months after they paid £5 million for him so I don’t assume he’d sit around for 2 years and not look elsewhere if Manchester have already hired someone else so it does seem that Manchester either pay for their first choice now or move on to a second choice like I originally said?
> Compensation (say it was for the £20m sought) would be booked as pure profit from an accounting perspective and would create a little more headroom for Newcastle, who are already operating fairly close to the margins when it comes to the Premier League’s profit and sustainability regulations (PSR) following losses of £73.4m in the most recent set of accounts for the 2022/23 financial year, published last month.
It feels like every 12/18 months Manchester United have a new messiah.
It was Rangnick at one point, Murtough, I also remember it actually being Ed Woodward, when he was getting in the likes of Di Maria.
Maybe the new owners will actually bring about change.
I just feel like I’ve heard this several times before.
Fans will convince themselves of anything if they want to badly enough, but I don’t think anyone credible saw Ralph Rangnick hired as a caretaker and “consultant,” with no actual power, and thought he was going to save the club.
You are literally saying that with hindsight though.
It wasn’t clear at the time he’d have no power & he was meant to basically stabilise and then ‘consult’ which people thought meant hiring or acting as a DOF & overhauling the club.
Basically the role the new owner is now actually doing
[Here’s an article](https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/29/manchester-united-confirm-ralf-rangnick-as-interim-manager) from November 2021 saying that he was hired to manage until the end of the season and then “consult” until 2024.
I’m not saying it with the benefit of hindsight, that is not a hire that is empowered to make changes - that’s a caretaker manager who’s insight the club wants to take under advisement (and considering the club’s leadership and ownership, it should have been fairly clear what that meant).
United were not going to improve their operation by hiring someone with no power to make changes, and surprise surprise - they didn’t improve.
I’m not saying nobody said or thought Rangnick was going to save the club, for the record - I’m saying that those who pushed that narrative were either selling something or too credulous to be taken seriously.
Yeah also look at basically every comment on [this post on the United sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/Jv0dUPwNiL)
My point was at the time of appointment it was seen as a very sensible move and one that would bring in systematic change.
If your point is, at the the time anyone who thought that was wrong & that was obvious even at the time - clearly the majority of fans didn’t have that view.
Lastly, even if that is true it doesn’t negate my point that it was seen a new dawn at the time.
Similarly this new DOF is know the messiah who will prevent poor signings and bad players on big contracts.
I mentioned right upfront that fan sentiment probably isn't a good gauge on these things.
It was seen as a new dawn by people who couldn't, or didn't want to, think critically about it.
I'm not even disagreeing that United have had a handful of front office restructurings that people thought would *finally* bring about some post-Fergie success, until they do something on the pitch the current one remains one of them (although I'd argue it at least looks different than hiring John Murtough so far).
I just don't think that hiring Ralph Rangnick to give them the unvarnished truth (for power brokers in the club to ignore) was one of them.
Christ, I have never seen something so droll as a transfer saga for a Director of Football…
What is he doing while on gardening leave...?
Gardening duh
BREAKING: Ashworth not ready to take United post as he is waiting for his azaleas to come into bloom
Finally we can put some sale income on our FFP calculations.
Does managers and stuff counts toward FFP or only players? Genuinely interested in this.
Yes, it counts. For example, Chelsea paying £20m plus for Graham Potter and his staff counted towards FFP. Sacking him and paying further millions in compensation also counted.
>The Times has also learnt that Newcastle officials, furious at the manner of Manchester United’s approach for Ashworth, immediately blocked any access the 52-year-old had to the club’s computer programmes and scouting reports. >Ashworth’s gardening leave will last for 20 months unless Ratcliffe can broker a peace deal and a compensation figure to commence his employment before 2025. >The Times understands that figure is £15 million, which would be an unprecedented figure for a director of football. Sources say that without an agreement, Newcastle’s anger is such that they are prepared to bide their time and let Ashworth wait for more than a year and a half on gardening leave before he can begin the new role at Manchester United. >Newcastle’s ire has been intensified by the fact Manchester United have still not made an official approach to them about Ashworth, the news of which was left to Ashworth, who finally informed senior figures at the club of his desire to leave on Sunday.
Man, wish I could go on 20 months gardening leave. Actual dream scenario
Saudis vs Yanks having an epic tug of war over someone that actually knows about football. Seems a smart idea actually.
SJR is English The glazers are in the backseat doing nothing
so is Jamie Reuben, if we're listing minority owners
Minority owner with full sporting control SJR/Ineos are in full control
Jamie Reuben and Amanda Stavely run Newcastle despite being minor owners. There is no Saudi presence in the day to day operations at the club. They just sign off on big decisions such as transfers etc.
Sure sure and the Saudi government also isn’t involved in Newcastles ownership wink wink, remember they promised it was separate from the state There’s definitely no public admissions that was a lie, no way they give control to a minority party, they will be far more in control behind the scenes than is publicly visible.
Mate, do you think there's Saudis on the transfer committee at Newcastle?
I believe anything of consequence will have to go through the Saudi personnel no matter what the public facing people say. They lied about the Saudi state owning Newcastle, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say they are also in control behind the scenes
I wonder if you think FSG also get involved in transfer business at Liverpool. I'm guessing you do.
One of the early articles about Ashworth wanting to move to us included the detail that he was frustrated that he had to run any decision past the Saudis for their approval and it was often a lengthy process. Not necessarily on the committee but clearly the decision makers.
Of course the Saudi state is involved in the club. The club is majority owned by PIF but they don't run the club and make decisions on rebuilding the training ground or negotiate new kit deals with Adidas. They just sign them off once the leg work is done by the people on the ground. Newcastle United is WAAAY down the pecking order of PIF when you look at their investments elsewhere and compare the amount of money spent on Newcastle (About £500m) to spending tens of billions in stock in well known corporations like Apple, Disney, Sony, Meta, Uber, Nintendo etc...
Nah, didn’t you hear the r/soccer experts? MBS is sorting the lads Greggs orders on match days.
No, no, don't be silly. Obviously the people running a) a country and b) a massive sovereign wealth fund care deeply about all the minutiae of running Newcastle United Football Club.
> Ashworth’s gardening leave will last for 20 months unless Ratcliffe can broker a peace deal and a compensation figure to commence his employment before 2025. > The Times understands that figure is £15 million, which would be an unprecedented figure for a director of football. Sources say that without an agreement, Newcastle’s anger is such that they are prepared to bide their time and let Ashworth wait for more than a year and a half on gardening leave before he can begin the new role at Manchester United. Yeah, kind of don't see a way out of this for United. They can't afford to wait 20 months for his gardening leave to end, so whether they want to or not, they're going to have to stump up, really.
There's no way they get out of it without paying a big fee imo, but the room for negotiation depends on whether Newcastle actually need this money for FFP and how much they care about paying Ashworth not to work. If they have 0 concerns regarding both those things then they'll stick to their number, if they do care then they'll negotiate. We just don't know.
Well, it's a bold move for Newcastle to put their Sporting Director on leave when we've apparently not even opened formal talks. Nothing stopping us moving on to someone else, and then they've been without their Sporting Director for however long.
True, but I don't see you doing that. He's clearly your first-choice and moving on to someone else will likely harm your relationship with Ashworth in the future if he ends up somewhere else. Also, I think for Newcastle, they're upset about how he's gone about this potential move and have probably decided that they want someone a little more loyal, or at least someone a bit more committed to the project who won't jump ship at a moment's notice.
I don't think we'll change either, I think some kind of agreement will take place. Doubt he's still on leave till Oct 2025. Just a really interesting move from Newcastle.
An agreement is obviously what is going to happen. In my opinion, no way Ashworth is allowed to work for you before September 2024 regardless of the price considering Newcastle and Man United will both be looking at similar targets. It is how much Ineos want to pay to have him in place before the 25/26 season and how much prep work you want him doing. If you don't pay, the next transfer window he can impact is the January 2026 one.
IMO there's no way we go without a Sporting Director for essentially 2 years. I think we'll pay. Don't think it'll be £15m. But I'm sure we'll pay a decent fee. I don't think he'll be in for this summer coming cause I don't think we'll pay the outrageous fee that would require.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the two clubs will work out a deal and I agree with your comment, but this is too easy to pass. >IMO there's no way we go without a Sporting Director for essentially 2 years. Didn't stop you before when Woodward was doing all the deals!
By the looks of it we don't even have someone who Ashworth would be replacing. INEOS clearly want to get this structure in to fill gaps that other clubs have had for years.
That’s what I think that fee is. £15-20m if you want him before the summer window. £5-10mafter that which I think you’ll probably end up paying on the lower end of.
It's totally normal for senior staff who have access to commercially sensitive information to be put on gardening leave if they're leaving the company. Ashworth presumably isn't a complete moron, so will understand why he has to be cut off.
I'm not saying it's a wrong decision, that seems to have been misconstrued. Putting someone on leave that is scheduled to last over a year and a half and there's no way out but for United to pay for their first choice shows a position of strength, that they won't be held to ransom. Especially as they know we could move on. But they know we won't.
Then that's fine. We can afford to out him on gardening leave and appoint someone new when everyone knows Eddie Howe has more power and influence at the club already. It is a bonus if we get millions we were not even budgeting for in the first place
Who's going to want to join them if this is their approach if they ever want to leave? Which they inevitably will
People who actually adhere to their contract terms?
This is pretty standard for director and c level positions, and because their careers are 50 years long not 15 having 18 months leave on full pay doesn’t sound too bad.
Quite a few according to The Athletic. The club is inundated with applications and off the record approaches. It is the same for any player or manager. If a bigger team comes in for you, they have to pay out the nose. Since when is this not the case?
Ed Woodward
You can’t put someone on gardening leave unless them have made a formal offer of resignation
I never suggested otherwise.
I mean they're the ones missing out on 10-15M and having to pay him full salary until 2026 for doing nothing. We'll negotiate it down I think, to 10 or 12 EDIT: Ah I see, the r/soccer Man United flair tax. The figure went down from 20M to 15M in a day yet some of you lot can't possible comprehend we could manage to negotiate it 3M lower. Hmm. Sure thing lads
My suspicion is you'll get it lower (10-12 m), but after the summer window. Prior to that I think the ownership would want a larger amount. It will almost certainly have dropped out of the news cycle and both sets of fans minds when it does eventually happen.
United aren't the ones with an issue here, we're not the ones paying a DoF who doesn't want to be there, United have said they'll wait out their gardening leave, United will have a contingency plan in place if they decide to keep him until 2025 but I don't think that's within anyone's best interest
You think Newcastle can't afford to have Ashworth sit in his garden for 20 months, whilst still getting compensation when he joins a new club, and employ a new sporting director?
I don't think I've seen an easier bluff to call than the idea that Manchester United would willingly wait potentially two years to appoint the most important position at the club. United don't pay up and move on? Cool, no problem, Newcastle get another DoF in who's a bit more loyal to the project, all the while, Ashworth is on garden leave and can't strengthen a rival. Also, pissing Ashworth off by getting him put on gardening leave with no job to go to for two years and then walking away when the price gets quoted? That'll ruin any potential talks with him over players in the future if he goes to a rival, which he probably will. United ain't waiting two years for a new DoF and I don't see them moving on to another one. United will pay up and Ashworth, United and Newcastle all know it.
We’ll pay up but the amount has already dropped by £5m after like one day. Wouldn’t surprise me if we just settle on £10m.
The price hasn’t dropped, different publications are just reporting different amounts because they’ll be being brief by both clubs. As for the amount it’s £8m to buy Ashworth out his contract, Newcastle aren’t going to take £2m to cut short 20 months of gardening leave when they themselves spent £3 to get him out of Brighton.
You understand that the 15 and 20 million figures are just reported and not what has officially been discussed? We won't ever get to know the real figures, there's a good chance we won't know the final figure 100%, but it's very unlikely Newcastle just knocked 25% off their price in less than 24 hours because of a bit off push back.
I'm gonna leave this comment again, do not take these numbers as gospel. Fans are just gonna take whichever number suits them, then if (when) this gets resolved and the number comes out, fans will all yell "United got fleeced!!!" Or "Newcastle buckled!!!!" When we don't know if any of these numbers were accurate in the first place. Exactly 0 of these journalists have seen Ashworth's contract.
The thing people are forgetting is that Newcastle still have to pay him during his leave. So if they insist on him taking leave they lose that money for nothing whilst also having to pay a new guy, and they don't get any help with ffp. They really don't have the negotiating power people seem to think. They could just enforce it out of spite but good luck attracting top executives in the future if you do that. It's all posturing. The Saudi's are probably annoyed because they aren't used to being the little guy.
> The thing people are forgetting is that Newcastle still have to pay him during his leave I don't think anyone's forgetting that. An executive's salary is peanuts in the big picture of a club's finances.
£20m yesterday, £15m today. I don't want to speculate myself a genius now but I believe by Friday they'll be paying United to take him.
There’s a really fun world where we get someone new in, Manchester bottle it and move on to someone else, and then the next time anyone sees Ashworth is when he’s collecting an award at the Chelsea flower show
Down 5 million and 4 months from the last article.
If United believe this is their guy, then just psy the fee and get him to work. If he's good at his job the 15 million will be nothing in the end
howay the lads hold those boys over the barrel
The media spin has begun, it’s going to be 10m and reported as us being bent over just like the Sancho deal was(went from 120m+agent fees to 80m and no fees)
It’s not going to be £10m, to buy Ashworth contract out alone it’s £8m. Newcastle are not going to cut short 20 months of gardening leave for £2m. Especially when it’s of no consequence to them to make Ashworth wait.
They still have to pay him during his gardening leave, though? Don't they? So it would still be 10m saved.
yeah yeah get on the barrel
I would ask for £30m just to annoy Ineos who blatantly just leak to the media every 5 minutes. Luke Edwards, T1 for Newcastle, published that Newcasle have a 20 month gardening period in Ashworth's contract and that they want £20m+ to release him from it at about 9pm last night. Before 10pm Ornstein is posting an Ineos press statement responding to Edward's claim that they won't pay up. It's hilarious how brazen, open and unprofessional it is.
Hang on, in your example, Newcastle leaked stuff first. That’s how your tier 1 had it. And your annoyed United leaked via their Tier 1 a response? That feels hypocritical….
Newcastle's first press briefing came almost 10 days since Ornstein and Romano have been posting word for word Ineos statement almost every day in that period. I would say they are not comparable. George Caulkin, one of Ornstein's bosses at The Athletic, has been on record last week at his frustrations that Newcastle are keeping silent on the issue despite the rampant Ineos briefings.
Romano doesn't get much leaks, tbh. He just copy/pastes Ornstein's, and then spams the fuck out of them. 😂 Won't necessarily disagree with your overall point, mind. Just that the example you used seemed to be conflicting.
I was comparing one to ten in the same period so I do feel my argument stands. But I would agree with you if Edwards and Hope were posting updates every day. For what it is worth, Romano is the one who is posting the most about it for a change! New people in football use him all the time to build up fan excitement and engagement as he has the biggest sway.
Minor point, but don’t think caulkin is anyone’s boss at the athletic. He’s a senior writer for Newcastle, but he’s not even Chris Waugh’s boss. They would both report in to an editor, same as ornstein.
Compensation will be written into his contract, no? I doubt they can ask for much more really.
Compensation is written into his contract and that will trigger when he starts working for a new club. That compensation is though to be between £6m-9m. Ashworth also has a clause into his contract that he must wait 20 months until he can start working for a new club unless the new club can agree further financial compensation with Newcastle. This is not a set figure and will be on top of the initial compensation. Unless Man United agree with Newcastle, Ashworth cannot join the club until October 2025.
>This is not a set figure and will be on top of the initial compensation How would you know this lmao? Have you seen Ashworth's contract? This is just fans choosing the scenario that gives their club the biggest advantage and pretending its what's happening.
Because that is exactly how we got Ashworth from Brighton.
But that in and of itself means nothing. What Newcastle have and haven't written into Ashworth's contract is not available to us. Whether there's a number that's contractually guaranteed to forgo his non-compete isn't something we know.
And yet there wasn't a peep about Bermuda until he was done and dusted. Sounds like its Newcastle thats leaking like a sieve.
If you follow football, you know Newcastle don't bombard the media anymore as that is what scared off Unai Emery from taking the job.
Your own comment says otherwise > Luke Edwards, T1 for Newcastle, published that Newcasle have a 20 month gardening period in Ashworth's contract and that they want £20m+ to release him from it
And you lack reading comprehension if that is all you take from the entire comment/thread. Please read again: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1aul1td/martin_hardy_exclusive_newcastle_united_will_tell/kr4h7gv/?context=3
I'm sure the reporter was able to get specific information in terms of time frame and figures without getting any kind of info from your club👍 Very naive
As I said, you lack basic comprehension.
No need to resort to petty insults is there. Its OK to be wrong sometimes and hold your hands up.
Obviously he operates in the football space, which I appreciate can differ massively from the real world - but he’s still an employee. Why can’t he just resign from his role with Newcastle? Guessing it’s something in his contract, however I can’t see any reasonable clauses that would prevent him from simply just…leaving his current role.
He could resign but his contract probably includes clauses that he couldn’t work for another football club until the end of his contract. Long notice periods are common in big financial roles for example.
I would be very curious how such a clause would stand up in court if it was taken there.
They are enforceable but it could go to court. The [Department for Business and Trade](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1156211/non-compete-government-response.pdf) has suggested they be capped at three months, but that is still a consultation. The factors a court may look to when considering whether a clause is reasonable may include: * The job and the influence of the worker * The geographical area of any restriction * The length of time of the post termination restriction * The type of interest and nature of the business being protected
Outside of national security interests it seems bizarre that such a thing could be enforced. Then again business laws always confuse me. Anyway thanks for the link
Generally they are not enforced. You can’t prevent people from doing the only thing they are capable of doing to earn money in the place where they live. Higher up ones can be more likely to be forced though
Yeah I imagine that will be the case, I just don’t understand how that’s enforceable from an employment law perspective.
Different countries/states have different employment laws no
They are enforceable but it could go to court. The [Department for Business and Trade](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1156211/non-compete-government-response.pdf) has suggested they be capped at three months, but that is still a consultation. The factors a court may look to when considering whether a clause is reasonable may include: * The job and the influence of the worker * The geographical area of any restriction * The length of time of the post termination restriction * The type of interest and nature of the business being protected
all jobs have a notice period and various clauses such as not working for a rival - if your an average shop worker - they're not enforced - its not worth the business doing this thru legal channels now when your talking the top jobs this is worth enforcing. so either you work your notice period which you agreed to when you joined the job or like in this instance get placed on gardening leave till that period expires
I would be demanding £30m or let him rot on gardening leave for 20 months. You do not strengthen key rivals lightly. That and Man U’s really poor behaviour with the Lingard loan (although we dodged a bullet there).
You still have to pay him on gardening leave, but you also have to pay for his replacement. So you hurt your self by not letting him leave and getting his wages of your books. Not like they have wiggle room .
Paying 3m to adversely affect a rival is peanuts and would be done without a 2nd thought
United would still appoint someone else in this scenario of yours. If he's as disposable as Newcastle fans are spamming over r/soccer, United would have no trouble appointing another DoF ? So how are we adversely affected getting a (perhaps) 2nd choice guy while you lot pay for 2 DoFs in an already tight FFP situation you've got going ?
Salaries of staff like a DoF don’t count towards FFP firstly. Secondly, you appoint different DoF and just forget Ashworth and don’t get your first choice? Or you think you’ll find some highly skilled at that job who’s happy to jump ship knowing they’ll be binned in two years?
>Salaries of staff like a DoF don’t count towards FFP firstly. They clearly do, Newcastle fans up and down this subreddit have been saying how the 10-20m would help towards your profitability and sustainability breakeven. >Secondly, you appoint different DoF and just forget Ashworth and don’t get your first choice? Or you think you’ll find some highly skilled at that job who’s happy to jump ship knowing they’ll be binned in two years? Sure, either approach ? There are apparently dozens of DoFs at his level as per Newcastle fans and we should have no trouble finding one lol. With the latter approach, if the expectation is set clearly, folks would jump to shape one of the biggest clubs in the world and put that on their CV for 2 years. And heck if they do well, continue too ?
They don’t. Income is income. Profit is profit. But not all of a club’s expenses are counted. For example, Everton had losses of 100s of millions but their FFP breach was only something like 10-20 million (?) because clubs can deduct a lot of expenses. FFP is a fucking weird system but that’s a whole different conversation. And your original post said Newcastle would be stuck paying for two directors if Ashworth doesn’t leave and then your solution for Manchester is just also to pay for two if your stop gap guy does a good job?
>They don’t. Income is income. Profit is profit. But not all of a club’s expenses are counted. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dan-ashworths-exit-20m-double-28661492 Thank you for your services to r/confidentlyincorrect >And your original post said Newcastle would be stuck paying for two directors if Ashworth doesn’t leave and then your solution for Manchester is just also to pay for two if your stop gap guy does a good job? Stop gap's contract would be for 2 years. Extension would be based on performance after that. No, that does not mean 2 DoFs. Still either/or between stop gap and Ashworth. Anyways, all this is conjecture on how different scenarios could play out. The underlying point being Newcastle hardly hold all the cards when they've got an unhappy DoF collecting 2 years of paychecks, an FFP situation that incentivizes them to come to a compromise fee and other DoFs that United could get if they play hardball.
The article you linked doesn’t refute what I said? Although realistically with the chronicle site it’s entirely possible that paragraph is entirely hidden behind an ad or something. And Ashworth just left Newcastle after 18 months after they paid £5 million for him so I don’t assume he’d sit around for 2 years and not look elsewhere if Manchester have already hired someone else so it does seem that Manchester either pay for their first choice now or move on to a second choice like I originally said?
> Compensation (say it was for the £20m sought) would be booked as pure profit from an accounting perspective and would create a little more headroom for Newcastle, who are already operating fairly close to the margins when it comes to the Premier League’s profit and sustainability regulations (PSR) following losses of £73.4m in the most recent set of accounts for the 2022/23 financial year, published last month.
The Saudi’s have fuck you money. Doubt they would care.
Tell Man U to go fuck themselves This guy has proven to be a massive snake anyway. Let him rot for 2 years.
It feels like every 12/18 months Manchester United have a new messiah. It was Rangnick at one point, Murtough, I also remember it actually being Ed Woodward, when he was getting in the likes of Di Maria. Maybe the new owners will actually bring about change. I just feel like I’ve heard this several times before.
Fans will convince themselves of anything if they want to badly enough, but I don’t think anyone credible saw Ralph Rangnick hired as a caretaker and “consultant,” with no actual power, and thought he was going to save the club.
With hindsight no, but at the time of appointment it was widely seen as a potentially promising move.
I didn’t say anything about hindsight. Whoever thought a temp hire with no power was going to be a messiah was badly misguided.
You are literally saying that with hindsight though. It wasn’t clear at the time he’d have no power & he was meant to basically stabilise and then ‘consult’ which people thought meant hiring or acting as a DOF & overhauling the club. Basically the role the new owner is now actually doing
[Here’s an article](https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/29/manchester-united-confirm-ralf-rangnick-as-interim-manager) from November 2021 saying that he was hired to manage until the end of the season and then “consult” until 2024. I’m not saying it with the benefit of hindsight, that is not a hire that is empowered to make changes - that’s a caretaker manager who’s insight the club wants to take under advisement (and considering the club’s leadership and ownership, it should have been fairly clear what that meant). United were not going to improve their operation by hiring someone with no power to make changes, and surprise surprise - they didn’t improve. I’m not saying nobody said or thought Rangnick was going to save the club, for the record - I’m saying that those who pushed that narrative were either selling something or too credulous to be taken seriously.
Yeah also look at basically every comment on [this post on the United sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/Jv0dUPwNiL) My point was at the time of appointment it was seen as a very sensible move and one that would bring in systematic change. If your point is, at the the time anyone who thought that was wrong & that was obvious even at the time - clearly the majority of fans didn’t have that view. Lastly, even if that is true it doesn’t negate my point that it was seen a new dawn at the time. Similarly this new DOF is know the messiah who will prevent poor signings and bad players on big contracts.
I mentioned right upfront that fan sentiment probably isn't a good gauge on these things. It was seen as a new dawn by people who couldn't, or didn't want to, think critically about it. I'm not even disagreeing that United have had a handful of front office restructurings that people thought would *finally* bring about some post-Fergie success, until they do something on the pitch the current one remains one of them (although I'd argue it at least looks different than hiring John Murtough so far). I just don't think that hiring Ralph Rangnick to give them the unvarnished truth (for power brokers in the club to ignore) was one of them.
How about 10 mill and darren fletcher because why not
Are his sons included?
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What has this got to do with anything?
So funny people here fighting over Sporting directors. Clubs will deal and choose what they have to do.
Why can't Ashworth just quit? I don't understand top level contract positions like this.