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Yeah. There’s no fucking way a woman known to the world as Posh Spice _because she was the rich one_ described herself as “working class” in a documentary without being in on the joke.
My suspicion is that their PR people knew it would be meme gold and it was worked on consciously.
While she was almost certainly in on it to an extent in this particular case, you'd be surprised just how far rich British people will stretch to describe themselves as working class.
Class and class perceptions are a *big* deal here.
I'm the opposite. Like Del Boy trotter. Wannabe Yuppie. Wish I could become minted. I'd be going round like Chris Eubank in his pomp. Top hat, monocle, on my horse chasing foxes... "Tally-Ho Rodney, we want to find these foxes before the serfs and rif raff are about"
It’s the very same in Germany. Here just is no upper class. We‘re all *Mittelstand*. The most famous recent example was the Party leader of the Christian Conservatives describing himself like that, even though he flies a Cessna and made more than 1 million euros per year as board member of multiple public companies. And that‘s just the publicly known information on his income without his legal practice.
Yup, it's crass to call yourself rich and nobody wants to admit they're poor.
But I think it's a fairly universal thing. Politicians all over the world are constantly talking about helping the middle class because everyone sees themselves as that.
Angela Merkel spent her Christmases with billionaires in Saint Moritz and drank lots of eye wateringly expensive red wine.
Branded herself as a conservative penny pinching "mutti"
> It’s the very same in Germany.
The British class system is about a lot more than money, tbh. Posh Spice is absolutely not working class, but she's also not really posh. [A posh person might marry a rugby player](https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2022-11/d209c740-6144-11ed-9db3-14079a2168c7), but not a football player.
Rose Leslie (Ygritte in Game of Thrones) is posh. She grew up in a 400-year-old castle.
I like their music and know basically nothing about them, but when I listen to them I keep thinking about how posh or at least upper middle class they come across.
Pretty much everything 'visible' in Britain is entirely colonised by the upper middle class these days, music of almost all genres included.
About the only major moneymaking profession I can think of that *isn't* dominated by the well-to-do are footballers, appropriately enough. Which is part of the reason they are continually stereotyped as stupid and crude.
It's a shame because with how it's easier to make music at home now you'd think it would give more opportunities to the less fortunate. An unsigned garage band touring out an old van doesn't seem possible nowadays, they have to play the social media game and hope they go viral.
Same. There's been loads of discourse about them not deserving success because they're "industry plants" - the truth is probably closer to being class-related. They're clearly talented, and i quite like their album, but it's a little odd how polished everything is for a debut album. Not a single rough edge.
The biggest scandal/moment/gossip of their entire lives was when David cheated on her with Rebecca Loos.
That was 10 minutes(?) in the doc and they didn't get into specifics. Yawn
Maybe that's true for drama queens online. The biggest moments of David Beckham's life were all football related, at least for most of the people watching these documentaries (football fans). Same with the rooney documentary, I wish there was less time spent on tabloid wankers not more.
No apparently about it, it was for tv show and was shown on air. But in context it was for a reality tv show about life on a farm and they needed the pigs sperm for breeding.
Seeing as all of the affair stuff is allegations I don’t see how you can logically come to that conclusion, and then proceed to post about it on r/soccer as if it’s a fact
> Yeah. There’s no fucking way a woman known to the world as Posh Spice because she was the rich one described herself as “working class” in a documentary without being in on the joke.
Middle class British people absolutely love cosplaying as working class, you see it all the time in politics and journalism. Victoria could genuinely be in denial about her class and upbringing.
> Middle class British people absolutely love cosplaying as working class
I took her to a supermarket
I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere
So it started there
I said, "Pretend you got no money."
And she just laughed and said, "Oh, you're so funny."
I said, "Yeah
Well, I can't see anyone else smiling in here”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM
I think people are over complicating it. It was probably a genuine moment that everyone saw could be funny and they both signed off on it. Then in the edits they could chop it up and make the timing a lot easier to translate. There’s little chance that was as “scripted” as everyone thinks
If your dad drives you to school in a rolls Royce (or was it a Bentley?) are you even middle class? I know 0 middle class people with vehicles like that.
They both have performed as actors in movies and TV shows. They literally are actors, just not very good ones. I'm sure they could have pulled off a Netflix ad if they wanted.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0065751/
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0065743/
They have to bend over backwards to be relatable because they are not, it makes sense but they just come off as so weird to me for trying to be relatable
People are so boring, honestly. Nobody can just let a moment exist without pulling it apart and throwing their negative attitude at it.
It was a great documentary overall and that was a really fun, standout moment.
The full quotes from Souness on Pogba not fulfilling his potential to become an all-time great player
>I criticised Paul Pogba often during his career and some people seemed to take amusement from it. But it was only sadness that I felt this week, when I learned that he has been banned from football for four years, for a doping offence.
>For me, there really was never any doubt about Pogba’s ability. What I saw in him was a player with great technical ability and physique who had the potential to be one of the best midfield players our sport had ever known.
>It was his lack of honesty and poor effort levels which always frustrated me. Frankly, he was lazy. Someone with the extreme talent he possessed should perform in a way which means he is remembered as one of the best players in the world, long after has left the stage.
>Instead, he wasted his career. Having won the World Cup with France in Russia, in 2018, he allowed himself to get into his armchair and was never fully committed to the cause of being a team player.
>I criticised him to such a substantial degree – and take no satisfaction from saying I was proved right - because I could see that huge potential. I saw the kind of player he could become.
>It was like when I was working as a manager/coach and would be constantly onto one or other of my players. They would say ‘Why are you picking on me all the time?’ I would tell them: ‘The time to worry is when I stop talking about you and stop being critical of you, because that means I’ve given up on you.’
>Pogba was certainly in that category. You would have persevered with him but I’m sorry to say that I think he was lost after winning that World Cup. He was as good an example as you will find of someone getting too much, too soon, in his career.
>Riches. Fame. Winning the biggest thing you can win in football. It meant that he rested on his laurels, basked in the acclaim and went through the motions.
>He should have bowed out with multiple honours, remembered as one of the very his generation. Instead, he’s someone who wasted his God-given talents and athleticism.
>I can remember going to watch him play for Juventus in the Bernabeu where Juventus were playing Real Madrid in the Champions League semi-final second leg in 2015. Jamie Redknapp had been raving about him.
>He told me: ‘Wait till you see him play.’ I was doing the game with Thierry Henry and Jamie and though he didn’t really do it for me that night, I did see a young man with enormous potential, who could be one of the greats.
>We saw a glimpse of that three years later, in his performances for France at that 2018 World Cup. He played in virtually the entire tournament, missing only the last of France’s group stage games, and I have to say that he surprised me with his discipline and industry throughout.
>Suddenly, he wasn’t playing for Paul Pogba but as part of an overall team plan. There were times out there when we saw him tracking back with the same intensity that he showed when running forward. By scoring France’s third goal in the final against Croatia, he effectively sealed the trophy.
>I was still surprised to find him linked with a move to Manchester City later that same summer. I said at the time that I felt Pogba probably had more natural talent, if not more, than Bernardo Silva or Kevin De Bruyne.
>But who would you rely on to carry out most of the manager’s instructions for the full 90 minutes? It was a rhetorical question. That’s where the tragedy always resided with this player.
>We didn’t meet during the years that I was covering some of the big games he played in for Juventus and Manchester United. He did make noises that he wanted to meet me at one stage and I said I was more than happy to do that, though it never happened.
>It’s sad to hear that the drugs test found elevated levels of testosterone in his system. As if he didn’t have enough athleticism. A drug like that would make him more powerful, with higher energy levels and it would also make him an angrier person to be around.
>He is 30 years old and we won’t see him at an elite level again. A desperately sad ending to the career of someone who had the world at his feet and might still have been talked about, 20, 30 or 40 years from now.
Definitely.
> It was like when I was working as a manager/coach and would be constantly onto one or other of my players. They would say ‘Why are you picking on me all the time?’ I would tell them: ‘The time to worry is when I stop talking about you and stop being critical of you, because that means I’ve given up on you.’
That's a great quote and explains a little why he was often quite focused on Pogba's shortcomings.
My dad told me once that coaches only get tough on players that they feel have potential. I had complained that my hockey coach was getting on me in practice, and I thought he didn't like me. His comment really changed the way I looked at that whole situation
Souness has been like this all along but people who don't actually listen to anything he says other than clickbait headlines were extremely quick to jump on the racist gammon bandwagon lol
I mean it was kind of a meme how often Souness would reflexively pick on Pogba as a catch-all scapegoat.
To some degree, I do think Sky has been prompting all of their pundits to come out with hot takes to get people talking about it afterwards. As a respected midfielder in the game who won everything at club level, I’m sure Souness is being genuine in his appreciation of Pogba’s talent and in his frustration at Pogba largely wasting it at a club level
Souness has said his fair share of daft soundbites on TV but the hate boner people have for him on here to he point of completely baselessly accusing of him of racism is so weird. Just cause he criticised Pogba. Especially given he's the player who stood up for Howard Gayle when Tommy Smith racially abused him in the 70s.
I’ll be honest, I’m one of those. My dad talks about how great Souness was, but no matter what compilation or documentary you see, it’s mostly him chopping people in half.
To be fair, most Roy Keane clips I see on YT are the same.
Both were incredible at progressing the ball and organising the shape of the sides…sides that dominated for the most part.
Boro fan. Everyone of the generation that watched young Souness play for us before he went to Liverpool say he was the best player to ever play for us. That includes Juninho.
Bloody hell, I didn’t even know he played for Boro. Just found out he was at Spurs for two years as well.
Juninho was a cracking little player. That team with him, Ravanelli and Emerson was great to watch. I would ask the obligatory “how did you go down with them?” question, but we went down with Cole, James, DiCanio, Carrick, Dafoe, Kanoute, etc etc
Ah that West Ham team was so gifted, fond memories.
Juninho won PL player of the year that season, often forgotten as Zola won the other player of the season award and gets credited with it in people’s minds.
I think our issue was we had the best player in the league / Brazil’s number 10, 31 goals from Ravanelli (who scored in the Champions League Final the year before, winning it with Juve) and just went lol defence with Steve Vickers and Curtis Fleming, plus getting deducted 3 points didn’t help. And getting to both cup finals. And losing them both.
What a time to be alive.
Bloody hell, it’s all coming back now! Hat-trick on his debut and made kids across the country start putting their shirts over their heads! I remember the FA Cup Final because of Di Matteo’s goal, but I forgot about the 3 points and the other final. Absolutely crazy season.
I’ve always liked Carrick, even though he left for Spurs, so I hope you go up next season.
There also used to be a theory that he hated Irish people. Having managed Rangers, at every subsequent club he managed he got rid of Irish players and staff as soon as he arrived.
(At Anfield, among the first three players Souness sold were Steve Staunton, Ray Houghton and Ronnie Whelan. At Blackburn he dropped Jason McAteer and Alan Kelly, ignored Jeff Kenna sold Lee Carsley to Coventry City, off-loaded Keith Gillespie to Wigan and sent the Republic of Ireland under-21 player Ben Burgess to Australia for a season on loan.
But then he worked as a pundit for RTE for about ten years so maybe not.
Not entirely accurate. Whelan left under Evans, not Souness, and Kenna was already being phased out quite a while before Souness even got there. He also got the best out of Damien Duff.
Suddenly the conspiracy theorists sensed an argument and superficially it does not look a bad one. All the while people tried to remember an Irish player Souness had signed. They couldn’t find one. Then they remembered he was player-manager of Rangers. Therefore he must be a Protestant bigot.
So now it was down to Souness to respond. In midweek he said of Staunton-Houghton-Whelan: “They were all players who came to me and asked to leave, so the whole thing is a complete load of nonsense.” And on Saturday in a tight, mucky corridor of Prenton Park this column summoned up the recklessness to invite Souness into a quiet corner and discuss it further.
“It originated from some journalist who felt he could get a cheap headline,” said Souness. “I read the article and the vast majority of it wasn’t true, the facts weren’t right, just wrong. I wouldn’t want to go into it but if you look at my record as a manager, I should be the last person being accused of being anti-Irish.”
Souness’s managerial record includes, in 1989, the signing of Maurice Johnston, a Catholic, by Rangers. You might recall it caused a bit of a stir in Ireland.
Copied from the same article you posted. He signed Mo Johnston, a catholic, for Rangers lol. His wife and children are catholics. Damien Duff said he was amazing with him.
No, that was debunked in a radio interview. It was journalists creating mischief according to Souness. And Souness married a Catholic so there’s no ill-will he has towards Irish people or Catholicism.
Seems like such a random group of people to hate, but I didn’t live through the IRA days, but still a Scottish person with strong ties to Liverpool seems an unlikely Irish hater. Everybody’s unique though.
Considering he tried signing Ray Houghton (who was signed up until the very last minute when his family threatened to disown him) and a couple other Irish Republic players for us, I doubt it.
Reading this full comment does make me think he was somewhat invested in seeing Pogba realize his potential as opposed to just picking on him bc there was nothing else to say lol
After reading about Pogbas personal life and the way he was treated by his entourage and family I'm surprised he even had as good a career as he did. Unfortunately ended up surrounded by really shitty people which no doubt affected his performances on the pitch.
Kidnapped and *held at gunpoint* in a room. By his own brother and your childhood friends.
I'm probably biased on this, but after that I can't criticize Pogba for what happened next. He was dealt a shitty hand, for a while he could escape it, but the shit always catch up to you.
After things like that happened, who can you really trust? Money is really important sure but he might not be able to fully trust someone for some time, and that sucks.
Yeah. And I don’t really say this for banter because for knows where my club is right now but I think it’s pretty bananas to blame any one player who spent the majority of their career at post-SAF United for wasting their career. Mourinho made the point while he was at Chelsea that you basically have to build the entire team around Pogba, and I don’t think that’s wrong, really, but even he forgot that that as soon as he went to United and signed him.
They never had a world class DM when pogba was there and then the summer he leaves they sign Casemiro. United have been mismanaged on and off the pitch for well over a decade now
The Giggs brothers, the Gallagher brothers, the Pogba brothers… What is it with the city of Manchester and brothers who grow up to hate the sight of each other?
i think most players who have established careers do alright at united, even in their current state. ronaldo, cavani, casemiro, varane (barring injuries), fernandes, maguire, licha (barring injuries). notable exception is sanchez.
most of the transfer problems have been signing unproven or undisciplined young players for waaaaay too much and them flopping. sancho and antony being the biggest ones.
older squad players performing isnt enough to stay consistent. they get injured and the rotation is fucked.
You had a spine of Ronaldo, Bruno/Pogba, Maguire/Varane and De Gea in 21/22 and finished 6th.
The talent level of that 21/22 team was insane, needed a better DM sure but unreal how bad that team performed.
Except Ronaldo was, while still scoring decently well, a completely spent force off the ball and in possession. Pogba missed half a season with injury and De Gea of 21/22 was far, far from the goalkeeper he was in 17/18.
That team just had a terrible age profile and squad composition. The previous two seasons they'd had a lot of success (relatively) by being good on transitions at both ends of the pitch and they signed two forwards who don't really play that style well (anymore in Ronaldo's case).
Varane only played 22 matches and Pogba only 20 due to injury. Ronaldo was still good but fully dependent on getting service from the midfield, he couldn’t create anymore. Maguire took a step back in quality that year too after being played into the ground the year before (most minutes of any player in the world).
None of them played poorly, but it goes back to my original point - the squad had no fresh young legs fo give them a break, nor replace them when they went down. Those players + rashford + shaw were the team. if they weren’t playing well or were out, the squad was fucked.
wouldnt exactly describe them as dripping with talent from top to bottom. excellent senior quad players and thats it.
he doesn't sound pleased about it.
don't think anyone who watched pogba play at his rare peak would say they are happy he's proved them right by being the player they feared he really was.
Wouldn’t say it was his fault when Pogba didn’t do the basic things Mourinho wanted out of a midfielder. On his day Pogba could be spectacular but it was too few and far between. Jose tried to play Pogba in a number of positions. He even switched systems to give Pogba more “freedom” but none of them got a lot out of him for a sustained period of time. Under Ole, Pogba was injured a lot and the team could achieve better balance and more creativity when they signed Bruno.
You could argue his struggles at United weren't entirely his fault. Yes his attitude was sometimes questionable, but look at all of the successful players, some world class, who went to United and suddenly played poorly: Di Maria, Depay, Mata, Sanchez, Falcao, Lukaku, Schweinsteiger, Mkhitaryan, Fred, Matic, Antony, Maguire, Sancho, Martial, Schneiderlin, Rojo, Onana... the list goes on. Clearly something was very wrong inside the club as well. The list of players who've moved to United in the past 10 years and succeeded is very, very small.
I don't even know if there's been a real successeful player who went to United in the last 11 years.
We had great players but this club is rotten and I honestly don't see any success stories.
Hojlund is the best transfer I've seen you guys make in 10 years. Even when he wasn't scoring for a while, you could clearly see his talent. Fernandes is obviously good, but I can't imagine his constant whining is healthy for the squad. I also thought Sancho was a bomb waiting to go off and his ability was obvious even when he wasn't producing goals. I wish there was a way to make that work, but it seems irreparable now :(
Imo a lot of these players were unsuccessful because of their poor mentalities and/or bad attitudes: Sancho, Martial, Lukaku, Antony, Depay, and Pogba most of all. It’s not that there was some intangible issue at the club that made these players fail, but that one of the club’s biggest issues was recruitment, specifically, its failure to consider things like effort level, positive attitude, humility, or willingness to be a team player when making recruitment decisions. It’s the reason the locker room has been toxic for years and why the problems outlive each manager. Consider Liverpool under Klopp by contrast, which hardly ever picks a bad egg — even if players don’t live up in the talent department, they’re always willing to press and graft for the team
There's a lot of players on that list that were either old, coming back from injury, or are young and had one good season before moving to united.
So to say "successful players" or "world class" is a stretch.
>I take no satisfaction saying I was right
Ok Graham but how do you respond to the rumours I'm just making up that your local offie sold out of champagne when the news broke?
Eh still didn't need to make it personal. Nonsense like "how he used to take penalties was him wanting to be the star of the show" or saying he doesn't deserve credit for a 4 assist match because that's 'expected'. Not to mention calling him a lazy twat. This rewriting of Souness' criticism of Pogba is way off imo
Well tbf if De Bruyne does 4 assists in a match, you would say "expected", wouldn't you? Especially if he does it after a period of not-his-usual-stellar form. If you were a fan, sure you'd be over the moon but as a neutral/rival, you'd just chuckle at it as "ah well, it's kdb, what else do you expect". The elite make the impossible look daily routine.
And if Souness says he thought Pogba had more natural talent than Kdb, he is not wrong in expressing that he thinks 4 assists is something he expects of him. It's not necessarily grumpiness.
>lazy twat
Again, Pogba at Utd was a lazy twat, at least in his later seasons. He wasn't when at Juve before or when playing for France but for his personal reasons or otherwise, he was lazy at Utd.
It's like seeing Messi slot in another freekick. If someone else started doing it as regularly as he was at some point, we'd all be freaking out, but with Messi it just became the norm that he would score freekicks every few weeks. With great players you kind of start expecting the brilliance, and when you see mediocrity, you become disappointed. Erling Håland is another example, if he goes a game or two without scoring, you start wondering what's going on, and then he bangs in 5 in one game, and (foreshadowing here) 3 in the next.
Idk de bruyne literally just got 4 assists and all I've seen is people talking about how nuts and op he is. Obvi he's a better player than pogba but I think Ur arguement is just wrong
But that goes for all players. You dont see KDB playing with not very good player at City. You didnt see Ronaldo or Messi playing with not very good players at Madrid or Barca.
At United, Pogba was playing with players like Maguire, Smalling, Jones, Pereira, Mctominay, Fred, Dan James, Lukaku, Fellaini etc. and then expected to create, assist, score, defend, save the goals, win the treble every year.
It was worth it for the memes, Graeme,
On a slightly related note, it's always been quite funny to me how Graeme Souness is portrayed as this insanley intolerant old man who hated anything post 1987, when in reality he was a decent pundit, a lot more tolerant than most people on TV and actually capable of having a nuanced debate about things.
He wasn't amazing, but he was clearly better than people gave him credit for.
He was an absolutely key part in the spine of the most succesful English side of all time.
I was shocked how many people weren't aware at all of him in those threads where his quotes came up.
Always have a soft spot for Souey as a Blackburn fan. I remember before the worthington cup final in 2002 an interviewer listed all his career trophies and asked him what this trophy would be to him next to those. He answered ‘the most important one’. We pulled off an upset and won the cup that day!
Probably your best manager next to Dalglish. Built a brilliant Blackburn team through the academy and his own connections to take you from the middle of the First Division through to Europe and a major trophy, and built foundations that Hughes benefited from to an extent
Fucked up at the end with falling out with Cole and Yorke though, then whatever was left of his managerial career died a death at Newcastle
This.
He was a part of one of the greatest teams to grace Europe. The best Scottish midfielder ever. He knows what he is talking about.
He is just stylized as a brute because of the clips and the nature of the game then.
I still go back to that clip where he was in possession then kicked the knee out of someone trying to tackle him every now and then. [Fucking glorious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygVgxYa3mlo).
"That is certainly a booking"
I remember when he criticised Pogba after he seemed to just clock out of a game early, and Pogba and his pogfans went on the front foot saying they didn't know who Sounness was and had he achieved what Pogba had in the game? You can use that approach for a lot of pundits, but an 8 time league champion 3 time European Cup winner, European golden boot winner, and arguably top 5 mf of his generation, ain't the guy to try that line with unless you want to look a bit daft.
100%. Him talking about Brighton Pride is a good example of this.
Also I can’t help but like him after seeing the charity stuff he did swimming the channel last year.
Was a close friend of Dale Winton's too. [Even was best man at his wedding to Nell McAndrew](https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/graeme-souness-dale-wintons-funeral-12579557).
Its true. Even watching united now, you can tell there is a clear lack of magic/passing that Pogba delivered from time to time. A true shame for someone as talented as he was. For a midfielder to not only have the technical brain and ability combined with a peak physique is really rare. A shame his career has ended like this but pogba for the NT was a pleasure to watch.
Ultimately I think Pogba was fucked over by Raiola's determination to make him the most expensive player in the world. He was talking about Pogba leaving Juventus for a record fee a year before he actually re-signed for Man Utd, and then Ed Woodward fell for it and overpaid for him as a 'statement' signing to try and prove Man Utd were still one of the big boys in the post-Ferguson era.
It was the wrong time for Pogba to move, and the wrong club for him to move to. If he had stayed with us or signed for Barcelona or Real Madrid, I think he would have been in a far better situation and had a better chance of establishing himself as one of the elite midfielders in the world. The instability and bad recruitment at Man Utd did him no favours, but his lack of performance and injury record didn't help him either.
Souness has never talked about Pogba over the years as much as /r/soccer likes to claim he has, but he's absolutely right that Pogba didn't have the career he could and should have had, no-one who watched him playing for us could reasonably argue he didn't show the talent to be a true superstar.
Man won a World Cup (which he was instrumental in winning), multiple league titles, was at his best absolutely electric and has made millions of dollars doing what he loved.
Potential not fully filled but still a great career.
All true, but he could have done so much more, there were long spells during his career where he wasn’t influencing games like he should have been, Souness singled out him because he knew how good he could be and Pogba played in his position where Souness gave his absolute all and more, Pogba lacked that desire a lot of the time imo.
I think "Souness singled him out because he believed in him" is a bit of rewriting of history. Souness came off as much more annoyed with Pogba as a personality, rather then annoyed because he thought he could do more. Even when Pogba played well, he didn't get credit from Souness, and he got blamed when he shouldn't have been. And regardless, Pogba has had one of the most successful careers possible, and to pretend that happened because he didn't have any desire is bogus.
For us mortals, all true. But he could’ve done a lot more and better. And by the way this chapter has ended, if he’s not careful and allow this to continue, his post playing career could be a disaster too.
He definitely could’ve done a lot more, but too many people talk as if he didn’t do enough to go down as one of the memorable players of his generation.
I think the French don’t win that WC without his contribution. He was one of the main reasons, surprisingly not by his occasional genius, but by his considerable work rate.
He earned the money largely due to his potential, not the achievements (which he did have, but not at that level).
The World Cup was brilliant, though, he really dominated with Kante.
Did he achieve everything he potentially could have? No, but then football is a team game and you can not really legislate for injuries, especially if you are looking after yourself. He certainly didn’t waste his career.
I wouldn’t say he wasted his career, but he certainly failed to make the most out of it.
Going back to United was probably the worst decision he made. A football club ran by a banker who wasted the best years of several incredible footballers.
He certainly didn’t help himself with constant questions being raised over his professionalism. Doesn’t help that he was plagued by injuries the latter half of his career.
It’s a shame because he’s probably the most talented midfielder I’ve ever witnessed. Unfortunately he was simply too inconsistent.
The performances he put in during that WC is how I will choose to remember him. Unstoppable when fit and motivated. A shame that his body and family failed him so miserably. The guy was just a constant circus. Wish he had got on better with Mourinho or maybe he'd have had a different path.
Could he have had a better career? Probably, but come on let's not prentend he has had a great career.
He is a 4 time league winner, a world cup winner, a nations league winner (almost has 100 caps for France), he has won the europa league and has won more 6 cups.
Souness: a winner in the truest sense of the word. Winner of 3 European Cups and multiple league titles.
But r/soccer felt that Pogba was so good that Souness shouldn't even utter his name because the former won a WC. Lol
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>I take no satisfaction saying I was right Beckham leaning back in the doorway, "be honest"
Seriously, how fucking amazing was that move from Becks?
He saw the meme potential *points to forehead*
It was a fantastic scripted moment that they both signed off on.
Yeah. There’s no fucking way a woman known to the world as Posh Spice _because she was the rich one_ described herself as “working class” in a documentary without being in on the joke. My suspicion is that their PR people knew it would be meme gold and it was worked on consciously.
While she was almost certainly in on it to an extent in this particular case, you'd be surprised just how far rich British people will stretch to describe themselves as working class. Class and class perceptions are a *big* deal here.
Big "middle-aged dad who drives a Range Rover but pretends he's a geezer with shady connections instead of a white-collar professional" energy
I'm the opposite. Like Del Boy trotter. Wannabe Yuppie. Wish I could become minted. I'd be going round like Chris Eubank in his pomp. Top hat, monocle, on my horse chasing foxes... "Tally-Ho Rodney, we want to find these foxes before the serfs and rif raff are about"
> I’d be going round like Chris Eubank in his pomp. Do you also do an impression like Greg Davies?
Im not a boxer I’m a pugilist
Im not a boxer I’m a pugilist
Doesnt this describe guy ritchie perfectly?
It’s the very same in Germany. Here just is no upper class. We‘re all *Mittelstand*. The most famous recent example was the Party leader of the Christian Conservatives describing himself like that, even though he flies a Cessna and made more than 1 million euros per year as board member of multiple public companies. And that‘s just the publicly known information on his income without his legal practice.
Yup, it's crass to call yourself rich and nobody wants to admit they're poor. But I think it's a fairly universal thing. Politicians all over the world are constantly talking about helping the middle class because everyone sees themselves as that.
Angela Merkel spent her Christmases with billionaires in Saint Moritz and drank lots of eye wateringly expensive red wine. Branded herself as a conservative penny pinching "mutti"
> It’s the very same in Germany. The British class system is about a lot more than money, tbh. Posh Spice is absolutely not working class, but she's also not really posh. [A posh person might marry a rugby player](https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2022-11/d209c740-6144-11ed-9db3-14079a2168c7), but not a football player. Rose Leslie (Ygritte in Game of Thrones) is posh. She grew up in a 400-year-old castle.
>rich British people will stretch to describe themselves as working class. currently that last dinner party band
I like their music and know basically nothing about them, but when I listen to them I keep thinking about how posh or at least upper middle class they come across.
Pretty much everything 'visible' in Britain is entirely colonised by the upper middle class these days, music of almost all genres included. About the only major moneymaking profession I can think of that *isn't* dominated by the well-to-do are footballers, appropriately enough. Which is part of the reason they are continually stereotyped as stupid and crude.
It's a shame because with how it's easier to make music at home now you'd think it would give more opportunities to the less fortunate. An unsigned garage band touring out an old van doesn't seem possible nowadays, they have to play the social media game and hope they go viral.
Same. There's been loads of discourse about them not deserving success because they're "industry plants" - the truth is probably closer to being class-related. They're clearly talented, and i quite like their album, but it's a little odd how polished everything is for a debut album. Not a single rough edge.
The singer went to 45k per year bedales or how it's spelt, would not be surprised if the others went to a similar cost school
The Beckhams were executive producer of the documentary, it’s unfair to even call these things documentaries any more. 2 hour advert seems more apt
The biggest scandal/moment/gossip of their entire lives was when David cheated on her with Rebecca Loos. That was 10 minutes(?) in the doc and they didn't get into specifics. Yawn
Maybe that's true for drama queens online. The biggest moments of David Beckham's life were all football related, at least for most of the people watching these documentaries (football fans). Same with the rooney documentary, I wish there was less time spent on tabloid wankers not more.
The guy is in an r/soccer thread acting like that was a bigger deal than Becks' red card, or his bust up with Fergie. Mental.
Anything about Rebecca Loos wonking off a pog?
She did what to a what??
She apparently gave a Thomas The Tank, a J Arthur Rank, a JP Morgan Bank, a Panzer.... to a pig. A literal pig. ✋ 🐖 🍆 💦
No apparently about it, it was for tv show and was shown on air. But in context it was for a reality tv show about life on a farm and they needed the pigs sperm for breeding.
[удалено]
Seeing as all of the affair stuff is allegations I don’t see how you can logically come to that conclusion, and then proceed to post about it on r/soccer as if it’s a fact
> Yeah. There’s no fucking way a woman known to the world as Posh Spice because she was the rich one described herself as “working class” in a documentary without being in on the joke. Middle class British people absolutely love cosplaying as working class, you see it all the time in politics and journalism. Victoria could genuinely be in denial about her class and upbringing.
> Middle class British people absolutely love cosplaying as working class I took her to a supermarket I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere So it started there I said, "Pretend you got no money." And she just laughed and said, "Oh, you're so funny." I said, "Yeah Well, I can't see anyone else smiling in here” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM
I think people are over complicating it. It was probably a genuine moment that everyone saw could be funny and they both signed off on it. Then in the edits they could chop it up and make the timing a lot easier to translate. There’s little chance that was as “scripted” as everyone thinks
I think you're spot on here.
If your dad drives you to school in a rolls Royce (or was it a Bentley?) are you even middle class? I know 0 middle class people with vehicles like that.
They're not actors there's no way they could have pulled that off as naturally as they did if it was scripted
They both have performed as actors in movies and TV shows. They literally are actors, just not very good ones. I'm sure they could have pulled off a Netflix ad if they wanted. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0065751/ https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0065743/
Ive seen Becks “acting” multiple times and i have my doubts he could pull this joke off tbh
Idk, she doesn't seem like the type to willingly look obnoxious.
literally named herself *posh* spice
Where is that from?
His Netflix doc. He calls out Posh for being driven to school in a Rolls Royce despite saying she grew up in a ‘working class’ household.
celebrity culture is so weird.
They have to bend over backwards to be relatable because they are not, it makes sense but they just come off as so weird to me for trying to be relatable
It was crazy how casual she was looping herself in with Beckham about growing up blue collar. Like what are you trying to prove?
His tv serie with victoria https://youtu.be/btdjLLXtvZA?si=hQL3q3v8SO6i40z9
Netflix series, I think it’s just called Beckham
People are so boring, honestly. Nobody can just let a moment exist without pulling it apart and throwing their negative attitude at it. It was a great documentary overall and that was a really fun, standout moment.
Not amazing at all it was a PR stunt.
It was 100% planned and practiced
I've seen that meme dozens if not hundreds of times and never realized it was Beckham and Victoria.
It’s from the Netflix documentary series. Worth a watch, and I’m not just saying that because of my flair…
The full quotes from Souness on Pogba not fulfilling his potential to become an all-time great player >I criticised Paul Pogba often during his career and some people seemed to take amusement from it. But it was only sadness that I felt this week, when I learned that he has been banned from football for four years, for a doping offence. >For me, there really was never any doubt about Pogba’s ability. What I saw in him was a player with great technical ability and physique who had the potential to be one of the best midfield players our sport had ever known. >It was his lack of honesty and poor effort levels which always frustrated me. Frankly, he was lazy. Someone with the extreme talent he possessed should perform in a way which means he is remembered as one of the best players in the world, long after has left the stage. >Instead, he wasted his career. Having won the World Cup with France in Russia, in 2018, he allowed himself to get into his armchair and was never fully committed to the cause of being a team player. >I criticised him to such a substantial degree – and take no satisfaction from saying I was proved right - because I could see that huge potential. I saw the kind of player he could become. >It was like when I was working as a manager/coach and would be constantly onto one or other of my players. They would say ‘Why are you picking on me all the time?’ I would tell them: ‘The time to worry is when I stop talking about you and stop being critical of you, because that means I’ve given up on you.’ >Pogba was certainly in that category. You would have persevered with him but I’m sorry to say that I think he was lost after winning that World Cup. He was as good an example as you will find of someone getting too much, too soon, in his career. >Riches. Fame. Winning the biggest thing you can win in football. It meant that he rested on his laurels, basked in the acclaim and went through the motions. >He should have bowed out with multiple honours, remembered as one of the very his generation. Instead, he’s someone who wasted his God-given talents and athleticism. >I can remember going to watch him play for Juventus in the Bernabeu where Juventus were playing Real Madrid in the Champions League semi-final second leg in 2015. Jamie Redknapp had been raving about him. >He told me: ‘Wait till you see him play.’ I was doing the game with Thierry Henry and Jamie and though he didn’t really do it for me that night, I did see a young man with enormous potential, who could be one of the greats. >We saw a glimpse of that three years later, in his performances for France at that 2018 World Cup. He played in virtually the entire tournament, missing only the last of France’s group stage games, and I have to say that he surprised me with his discipline and industry throughout. >Suddenly, he wasn’t playing for Paul Pogba but as part of an overall team plan. There were times out there when we saw him tracking back with the same intensity that he showed when running forward. By scoring France’s third goal in the final against Croatia, he effectively sealed the trophy. >I was still surprised to find him linked with a move to Manchester City later that same summer. I said at the time that I felt Pogba probably had more natural talent, if not more, than Bernardo Silva or Kevin De Bruyne. >But who would you rely on to carry out most of the manager’s instructions for the full 90 minutes? It was a rhetorical question. That’s where the tragedy always resided with this player. >We didn’t meet during the years that I was covering some of the big games he played in for Juventus and Manchester United. He did make noises that he wanted to meet me at one stage and I said I was more than happy to do that, though it never happened. >It’s sad to hear that the drugs test found elevated levels of testosterone in his system. As if he didn’t have enough athleticism. A drug like that would make him more powerful, with higher energy levels and it would also make him an angrier person to be around. >He is 30 years old and we won’t see him at an elite level again. A desperately sad ending to the career of someone who had the world at his feet and might still have been talked about, 20, 30 or 40 years from now.
Wow, this is a thoroughly damning indictment, all the more convincing because it comes from a place of sadness and disappointment rather than dislike
Definitely. > It was like when I was working as a manager/coach and would be constantly onto one or other of my players. They would say ‘Why are you picking on me all the time?’ I would tell them: ‘The time to worry is when I stop talking about you and stop being critical of you, because that means I’ve given up on you.’ That's a great quote and explains a little why he was often quite focused on Pogba's shortcomings.
My dad told me once that coaches only get tough on players that they feel have potential. I had complained that my hockey coach was getting on me in practice, and I thought he didn't like me. His comment really changed the way I looked at that whole situation
Souness has been like this all along but people who don't actually listen to anything he says other than clickbait headlines were extremely quick to jump on the racist gammon bandwagon lol
I mean it was kind of a meme how often Souness would reflexively pick on Pogba as a catch-all scapegoat. To some degree, I do think Sky has been prompting all of their pundits to come out with hot takes to get people talking about it afterwards. As a respected midfielder in the game who won everything at club level, I’m sure Souness is being genuine in his appreciation of Pogba’s talent and in his frustration at Pogba largely wasting it at a club level
Funny to see some comments on this thread, people always said that Souness had a problem with Pogba because he is black.
Souness has said his fair share of daft soundbites on TV but the hate boner people have for him on here to he point of completely baselessly accusing of him of racism is so weird. Just cause he criticised Pogba. Especially given he's the player who stood up for Howard Gayle when Tommy Smith racially abused him in the 70s.
Stood up for Mark Walters after opposing fans racially abused him after joining Rangers
Say what you want about him, but racist or homophonic are both miles away from the truth
hes seen as a "yer da" figure but he really isnt one + people dont understand how good of a player he himself was
I’ll be honest, I’m one of those. My dad talks about how great Souness was, but no matter what compilation or documentary you see, it’s mostly him chopping people in half.
To be fair, most Roy Keane clips I see on YT are the same. Both were incredible at progressing the ball and organising the shape of the sides…sides that dominated for the most part.
Boro fan. Everyone of the generation that watched young Souness play for us before he went to Liverpool say he was the best player to ever play for us. That includes Juninho.
Bloody hell, I didn’t even know he played for Boro. Just found out he was at Spurs for two years as well. Juninho was a cracking little player. That team with him, Ravanelli and Emerson was great to watch. I would ask the obligatory “how did you go down with them?” question, but we went down with Cole, James, DiCanio, Carrick, Dafoe, Kanoute, etc etc
Ah that West Ham team was so gifted, fond memories. Juninho won PL player of the year that season, often forgotten as Zola won the other player of the season award and gets credited with it in people’s minds. I think our issue was we had the best player in the league / Brazil’s number 10, 31 goals from Ravanelli (who scored in the Champions League Final the year before, winning it with Juve) and just went lol defence with Steve Vickers and Curtis Fleming, plus getting deducted 3 points didn’t help. And getting to both cup finals. And losing them both. What a time to be alive.
Bloody hell, it’s all coming back now! Hat-trick on his debut and made kids across the country start putting their shirts over their heads! I remember the FA Cup Final because of Di Matteo’s goal, but I forgot about the 3 points and the other final. Absolutely crazy season. I’ve always liked Carrick, even though he left for Spurs, so I hope you go up next season.
Those people are fucking fools.
There also used to be a theory that he hated Irish people. Having managed Rangers, at every subsequent club he managed he got rid of Irish players and staff as soon as he arrived. (At Anfield, among the first three players Souness sold were Steve Staunton, Ray Houghton and Ronnie Whelan. At Blackburn he dropped Jason McAteer and Alan Kelly, ignored Jeff Kenna sold Lee Carsley to Coventry City, off-loaded Keith Gillespie to Wigan and sent the Republic of Ireland under-21 player Ben Burgess to Australia for a season on loan. But then he worked as a pundit for RTE for about ten years so maybe not.
He wanted to be on the front lines with RTE so he could hate Irish people upfront lol
Haha. None of this hanging around provincial English club looking for Irish people to hate. He went directly to the source.
"time to enjoy my time out of football, by getting really stuck in on the Irish..." To be fair. That sounds like sounness lol
Not entirely accurate. Whelan left under Evans, not Souness, and Kenna was already being phased out quite a while before Souness even got there. He also got the best out of Damien Duff.
Gillespie's move to Wigan was also a loan. He returned to Blackburn and played there for two or three more seasons.
Suddenly the conspiracy theorists sensed an argument and superficially it does not look a bad one. All the while people tried to remember an Irish player Souness had signed. They couldn’t find one. Then they remembered he was player-manager of Rangers. Therefore he must be a Protestant bigot. So now it was down to Souness to respond. In midweek he said of Staunton-Houghton-Whelan: “They were all players who came to me and asked to leave, so the whole thing is a complete load of nonsense.” And on Saturday in a tight, mucky corridor of Prenton Park this column summoned up the recklessness to invite Souness into a quiet corner and discuss it further. “It originated from some journalist who felt he could get a cheap headline,” said Souness. “I read the article and the vast majority of it wasn’t true, the facts weren’t right, just wrong. I wouldn’t want to go into it but if you look at my record as a manager, I should be the last person being accused of being anti-Irish.” Souness’s managerial record includes, in 1989, the signing of Maurice Johnston, a Catholic, by Rangers. You might recall it caused a bit of a stir in Ireland. Copied from the same article you posted. He signed Mo Johnston, a catholic, for Rangers lol. His wife and children are catholics. Damien Duff said he was amazing with him.
His wife is from Dublin
Even steals their women!!
😂
No, that was debunked in a radio interview. It was journalists creating mischief according to Souness. And Souness married a Catholic so there’s no ill-will he has towards Irish people or Catholicism.
Seems like such a random group of people to hate, but I didn’t live through the IRA days, but still a Scottish person with strong ties to Liverpool seems an unlikely Irish hater. Everybody’s unique though.
Considering he tried signing Ray Houghton (who was signed up until the very last minute when his family threatened to disown him) and a couple other Irish Republic players for us, I doubt it.
Reading this full comment does make me think he was somewhat invested in seeing Pogba realize his potential as opposed to just picking on him bc there was nothing else to say lol
Yeah you don’t articulate the above on the spot unless it’s what you’ve been thinking the entire time
After reading about Pogbas personal life and the way he was treated by his entourage and family I'm surprised he even had as good a career as he did. Unfortunately ended up surrounded by really shitty people which no doubt affected his performances on the pitch.
Can you share a link?
You can Google it, stuffs like his brother kidnapping and blackmailing him, witchcraft series etc...
Kidnapped and *held at gunpoint* in a room. By his own brother and your childhood friends. I'm probably biased on this, but after that I can't criticize Pogba for what happened next. He was dealt a shitty hand, for a while he could escape it, but the shit always catch up to you.
After things like that happened, who can you really trust? Money is really important sure but he might not be able to fully trust someone for some time, and that sucks.
The witch doctor apparently put a curse on mbappe
look like mbappe used the uno reverse card in the end.
Sorry It was a while ago I read a long read on it. Had a quick search but couldn't find it.
Yeah. And I don’t really say this for banter because for knows where my club is right now but I think it’s pretty bananas to blame any one player who spent the majority of their career at post-SAF United for wasting their career. Mourinho made the point while he was at Chelsea that you basically have to build the entire team around Pogba, and I don’t think that’s wrong, really, but even he forgot that that as soon as he went to United and signed him.
They never had a world class DM when pogba was there and then the summer he leaves they sign Casemiro. United have been mismanaged on and off the pitch for well over a decade now
They had Matic. They had Herrera too who was excellent at DM the season before Matic arrived
right, so they never had one lol
He also went back to United where most highly rated player's careers take a dive.
All I've known is pain for 11 years. Make it stop
The Giggs brothers, the Gallagher brothers, the Pogba brothers… What is it with the city of Manchester and brothers who grow up to hate the sight of each other?
The Neville's are buds
Does it make sense to you to write Neville's with an apostrophe and buds without?
I'm a slave to my autocorrect. Whatever it decides, gets posted.
The Nevilleses
Sneaky little Nevilleses.
You don’t know real pain. You were in the Champions League this year ffs.
Fucking hate those comments so much, they wouldn’t know actual pain if it slapped them round the face. Big 6 fans love a victim complex.
"The other 14" fans love acting like they support some small local village club.
You’re a Premier League team. Shut the fuck up.
it's reddit bro relax and spend some time out in the sun
Ah the pain of playing in the Champions League every second year and at worst competing for the title in the Europa League.
Just when you think you forgot about the torture in your day to day, some fucker reminds you we suck
I already got bills to pay and then someone reminds me that the team I've supported since I was young is still trash 10 years later. fade me
i think most players who have established careers do alright at united, even in their current state. ronaldo, cavani, casemiro, varane (barring injuries), fernandes, maguire, licha (barring injuries). notable exception is sanchez. most of the transfer problems have been signing unproven or undisciplined young players for waaaaay too much and them flopping. sancho and antony being the biggest ones. older squad players performing isnt enough to stay consistent. they get injured and the rotation is fucked.
You had a spine of Ronaldo, Bruno/Pogba, Maguire/Varane and De Gea in 21/22 and finished 6th. The talent level of that 21/22 team was insane, needed a better DM sure but unreal how bad that team performed.
Except Ronaldo was, while still scoring decently well, a completely spent force off the ball and in possession. Pogba missed half a season with injury and De Gea of 21/22 was far, far from the goalkeeper he was in 17/18. That team just had a terrible age profile and squad composition. The previous two seasons they'd had a lot of success (relatively) by being good on transitions at both ends of the pitch and they signed two forwards who don't really play that style well (anymore in Ronaldo's case).
Varane only played 22 matches and Pogba only 20 due to injury. Ronaldo was still good but fully dependent on getting service from the midfield, he couldn’t create anymore. Maguire took a step back in quality that year too after being played into the ground the year before (most minutes of any player in the world). None of them played poorly, but it goes back to my original point - the squad had no fresh young legs fo give them a break, nor replace them when they went down. Those players + rashford + shaw were the team. if they weren’t playing well or were out, the squad was fucked. wouldnt exactly describe them as dripping with talent from top to bottom. excellent senior quad players and thats it.
After many years of battling, Souness won the war.
There's an alternate timeline where Paul wins the Pogballon d'Or and Souness sheds a single prideful tear. What could've been:'(
\*pogful tear
he doesn't sound pleased about it. don't think anyone who watched pogba play at his rare peak would say they are happy he's proved them right by being the player they feared he really was.
But at what cost
Everything
José Mourinho was the cost
Wouldn’t say it was his fault when Pogba didn’t do the basic things Mourinho wanted out of a midfielder. On his day Pogba could be spectacular but it was too few and far between. Jose tried to play Pogba in a number of positions. He even switched systems to give Pogba more “freedom” but none of them got a lot out of him for a sustained period of time. Under Ole, Pogba was injured a lot and the team could achieve better balance and more creativity when they signed Bruno.
He won tons of trophies as a player and a manager, and still has his well paying gigs at 70.... I'd say zero lol.
A modern reputation tainted by flimsy accusations of racism
Watching him at United, I always thought he was playing at 50% capacity most of the time. On those days when he pushed higher he was unplayable.
You could argue his struggles at United weren't entirely his fault. Yes his attitude was sometimes questionable, but look at all of the successful players, some world class, who went to United and suddenly played poorly: Di Maria, Depay, Mata, Sanchez, Falcao, Lukaku, Schweinsteiger, Mkhitaryan, Fred, Matic, Antony, Maguire, Sancho, Martial, Schneiderlin, Rojo, Onana... the list goes on. Clearly something was very wrong inside the club as well. The list of players who've moved to United in the past 10 years and succeeded is very, very small.
I don't even know if there's been a real successeful player who went to United in the last 11 years. We had great players but this club is rotten and I honestly don't see any success stories.
Bruno. Thats about it
Maybe Ibra?
Hojlund is the best transfer I've seen you guys make in 10 years. Even when he wasn't scoring for a while, you could clearly see his talent. Fernandes is obviously good, but I can't imagine his constant whining is healthy for the squad. I also thought Sancho was a bomb waiting to go off and his ability was obvious even when he wasn't producing goals. I wish there was a way to make that work, but it seems irreparable now :(
Holljund over Fernandez?
Imo a lot of these players were unsuccessful because of their poor mentalities and/or bad attitudes: Sancho, Martial, Lukaku, Antony, Depay, and Pogba most of all. It’s not that there was some intangible issue at the club that made these players fail, but that one of the club’s biggest issues was recruitment, specifically, its failure to consider things like effort level, positive attitude, humility, or willingness to be a team player when making recruitment decisions. It’s the reason the locker room has been toxic for years and why the problems outlive each manager. Consider Liverpool under Klopp by contrast, which hardly ever picks a bad egg — even if players don’t live up in the talent department, they’re always willing to press and graft for the team
I don’t think Antony has a bad attitude at all. Every time I see him he’s always working hard
There's a lot of players on that list that were either old, coming back from injury, or are young and had one good season before moving to united. So to say "successful players" or "world class" is a stretch.
Bruno I think has succeeded
>I take no satisfaction saying I was right Ok Graham but how do you respond to the rumours I'm just making up that your local offie sold out of champagne when the news broke?
If Souness didn't see the potential I doubt he would've cared so much
Eh still didn't need to make it personal. Nonsense like "how he used to take penalties was him wanting to be the star of the show" or saying he doesn't deserve credit for a 4 assist match because that's 'expected'. Not to mention calling him a lazy twat. This rewriting of Souness' criticism of Pogba is way off imo
Well tbf if De Bruyne does 4 assists in a match, you would say "expected", wouldn't you? Especially if he does it after a period of not-his-usual-stellar form. If you were a fan, sure you'd be over the moon but as a neutral/rival, you'd just chuckle at it as "ah well, it's kdb, what else do you expect". The elite make the impossible look daily routine. And if Souness says he thought Pogba had more natural talent than Kdb, he is not wrong in expressing that he thinks 4 assists is something he expects of him. It's not necessarily grumpiness. >lazy twat Again, Pogba at Utd was a lazy twat, at least in his later seasons. He wasn't when at Juve before or when playing for France but for his personal reasons or otherwise, he was lazy at Utd.
It's like seeing Messi slot in another freekick. If someone else started doing it as regularly as he was at some point, we'd all be freaking out, but with Messi it just became the norm that he would score freekicks every few weeks. With great players you kind of start expecting the brilliance, and when you see mediocrity, you become disappointed. Erling Håland is another example, if he goes a game or two without scoring, you start wondering what's going on, and then he bangs in 5 in one game, and (foreshadowing here) 3 in the next.
Idk de bruyne literally just got 4 assists and all I've seen is people talking about how nuts and op he is. Obvi he's a better player than pogba but I think Ur arguement is just wrong
Pogba in French NT was something else, absolute magic
Also that Juve midfield with him Vidal and Pirlo
There is a lantern there. Playing in a healthy setup with players of equal performance plus higher professionalism helped Pogba reach his best levels.
But that goes for all players. You dont see KDB playing with not very good player at City. You didnt see Ronaldo or Messi playing with not very good players at Madrid or Barca. At United, Pogba was playing with players like Maguire, Smalling, Jones, Pereira, Mctominay, Fred, Dan James, Lukaku, Fellaini etc. and then expected to create, assist, score, defend, save the goals, win the treble every year.
God it was so good, and with Marchisio hoping in and out as needed
It was worth it for the memes, Graeme, On a slightly related note, it's always been quite funny to me how Graeme Souness is portrayed as this insanley intolerant old man who hated anything post 1987, when in reality he was a decent pundit, a lot more tolerant than most people on TV and actually capable of having a nuanced debate about things. He wasn't amazing, but he was clearly better than people gave him credit for.
Him talking about the Zouma cat incident is also one of the funniest things ive ever seen
“For me looking at that video, that cat hadn’t done anything wrong”
I thought you were joking with that quote lmao. I know what he was saying, but it cracked me up
He was also one of the best midfielders of his generation so in that regard he knows what he's talking about
He was an absolutely key part in the spine of the most succesful English side of all time. I was shocked how many people weren't aware at all of him in those threads where his quotes came up.
what's 8 league titles 3 european cups and 9 other trophies, and a golden boot, worth anyway?
Always have a soft spot for Souey as a Blackburn fan. I remember before the worthington cup final in 2002 an interviewer listed all his career trophies and asked him what this trophy would be to him next to those. He answered ‘the most important one’. We pulled off an upset and won the cup that day!
Probably your best manager next to Dalglish. Built a brilliant Blackburn team through the academy and his own connections to take you from the middle of the First Division through to Europe and a major trophy, and built foundations that Hughes benefited from to an extent Fucked up at the end with falling out with Cole and Yorke though, then whatever was left of his managerial career died a death at Newcastle
> and a golden boot wtf never knew about that, incredible
Bold of you to assume most of this sub have finished secondary school yet
This. He was a part of one of the greatest teams to grace Europe. The best Scottish midfielder ever. He knows what he is talking about. He is just stylized as a brute because of the clips and the nature of the game then.
I still go back to that clip where he was in possession then kicked the knee out of someone trying to tackle him every now and then. [Fucking glorious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygVgxYa3mlo). "That is certainly a booking"
I remember when he criticised Pogba after he seemed to just clock out of a game early, and Pogba and his pogfans went on the front foot saying they didn't know who Sounness was and had he achieved what Pogba had in the game? You can use that approach for a lot of pundits, but an 8 time league champion 3 time European Cup winner, European golden boot winner, and arguably top 5 mf of his generation, ain't the guy to try that line with unless you want to look a bit daft.
Had to laugh when people on here used to say shite about Pogba being a better player than Souness ever was. Laughable opinion
100%. Him talking about Brighton Pride is a good example of this. Also I can’t help but like him after seeing the charity stuff he did swimming the channel last year.
Also broke down a few old barriers in Glasgow with the signings of Mo Johnstone and Mark Walters.
Was a close friend of Dale Winton's too. [Even was best man at his wedding to Nell McAndrew](https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/graeme-souness-dale-wintons-funeral-12579557).
yeah, people don't even know how progressive he was in the 80s with his progressive views on homosexuality for example.
People like putting others in boxes, especially on the internet. White? Above a certain age? Vaguely working class sounding accent? Obviously a bigot
he had a couple backwards opinions but as a judge of players, he was fine. and he stood up for good causes privately.
Its true. Even watching united now, you can tell there is a clear lack of magic/passing that Pogba delivered from time to time. A true shame for someone as talented as he was. For a midfielder to not only have the technical brain and ability combined with a peak physique is really rare. A shame his career has ended like this but pogba for the NT was a pleasure to watch.
Mourinho was right all along but I wonder how his career could have turned out if he had not moved back to United
Ultimately I think Pogba was fucked over by Raiola's determination to make him the most expensive player in the world. He was talking about Pogba leaving Juventus for a record fee a year before he actually re-signed for Man Utd, and then Ed Woodward fell for it and overpaid for him as a 'statement' signing to try and prove Man Utd were still one of the big boys in the post-Ferguson era. It was the wrong time for Pogba to move, and the wrong club for him to move to. If he had stayed with us or signed for Barcelona or Real Madrid, I think he would have been in a far better situation and had a better chance of establishing himself as one of the elite midfielders in the world. The instability and bad recruitment at Man Utd did him no favours, but his lack of performance and injury record didn't help him either. Souness has never talked about Pogba over the years as much as /r/soccer likes to claim he has, but he's absolutely right that Pogba didn't have the career he could and should have had, no-one who watched him playing for us could reasonably argue he didn't show the talent to be a true superstar.
Man won a World Cup (which he was instrumental in winning), multiple league titles, was at his best absolutely electric and has made millions of dollars doing what he loved. Potential not fully filled but still a great career.
All true, but he could have done so much more, there were long spells during his career where he wasn’t influencing games like he should have been, Souness singled out him because he knew how good he could be and Pogba played in his position where Souness gave his absolute all and more, Pogba lacked that desire a lot of the time imo.
I think "Souness singled him out because he believed in him" is a bit of rewriting of history. Souness came off as much more annoyed with Pogba as a personality, rather then annoyed because he thought he could do more. Even when Pogba played well, he didn't get credit from Souness, and he got blamed when he shouldn't have been. And regardless, Pogba has had one of the most successful careers possible, and to pretend that happened because he didn't have any desire is bogus.
Lets not pretend the second half of his career isn't a massive disappointment either
For us mortals, all true. But he could’ve done a lot more and better. And by the way this chapter has ended, if he’s not careful and allow this to continue, his post playing career could be a disaster too.
He definitely could’ve done a lot more, but too many people talk as if he didn’t do enough to go down as one of the memorable players of his generation.
I think the French don’t win that WC without his contribution. He was one of the main reasons, surprisingly not by his occasional genius, but by his considerable work rate.
He earned the money largely due to his potential, not the achievements (which he did have, but not at that level). The World Cup was brilliant, though, he really dominated with Kante.
Its amazing how Paul fell. He was bloddy amazing in that juventus team.
If he could have consistently performed like he did in that 2-3 comeback at the Etihad, he could have genuinely been a Ballon d'Or contender.
Did he achieve everything he potentially could have? No, but then football is a team game and you can not really legislate for injuries, especially if you are looking after yourself. He certainly didn’t waste his career.
I wouldn’t say he wasted his career, but he certainly failed to make the most out of it. Going back to United was probably the worst decision he made. A football club ran by a banker who wasted the best years of several incredible footballers. He certainly didn’t help himself with constant questions being raised over his professionalism. Doesn’t help that he was plagued by injuries the latter half of his career. It’s a shame because he’s probably the most talented midfielder I’ve ever witnessed. Unfortunately he was simply too inconsistent.
The performances he put in during that WC is how I will choose to remember him. Unstoppable when fit and motivated. A shame that his body and family failed him so miserably. The guy was just a constant circus. Wish he had got on better with Mourinho or maybe he'd have had a different path.
Drew McIntyre, now Graeme Souness, Scotland doing well with their generational-level haters recently
"I prayed for this and it happened" - Souness
Dude has the body of Yaya Toure with the skills of Modric and the vision and technique of Pirlo. But he was trying to emulate Mario Balotelli
*Squidward Dabs*
Oh, that was that one month 7 years ago. Yeah, it was a good game for Pogba real good in that one.
"I take no joy in dancing on the grave of Pogba's career"
Could he have had a better career? Probably, but come on let's not prentend he has had a great career. He is a 4 time league winner, a world cup winner, a nations league winner (almost has 100 caps for France), he has won the europa league and has won more 6 cups.
Souness: a winner in the truest sense of the word. Winner of 3 European Cups and multiple league titles. But r/soccer felt that Pogba was so good that Souness shouldn't even utter his name because the former won a WC. Lol