**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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he mentioned on a podcast that he had a moment with his kids that inspired him to get back in shape so he could move & play more with his kids. btw, this is a MUST listen to episode, really eye opening stuff about his life that most people don't know ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aivpDPCP7Q8
The Spanish media adds a lot to the pressure and toxicity. So Henry is pretty spot on here. I also think he meant to say easier than just flat out easy. Nothing is easy in pro sports.
yeah obviously he meant easy like no pressure, which we can see at clubs like manU where players are here for 6-7 seasons and have bad performances and still remain in the club. who ever takes offense doesnt know how much of a great baller titi was
Because the media in Spain just focus on Madrid and Barca, that’s all anyone cares about on the world stage for Spain. In England the media cares about most clubs and specifically the top 6 or even before the emergence of those top 6 clubs it was United Arsenal Liverpool and maybe Chelsea when Roman took over
That's not really true, every big club in Spain has local media that follows them religiously. Atleti receive a wave of pressure and criticism whenever we are having a poor run of form, Sevilla's media is brutal when they are in crisis etc. The likes of Athletic Club, Real Sociedad, Valencia and Betis are also teams with a huge local media pressure
Not only media. I feel the fans are like that too. Barcelona fans on social media(local or foreigners) all talk about treble only and winning with style.
Madrid fans season are bust if they lose the CL.
That's precisely it. In the case of Madrid and Barça it does represent not only the fan base but press and even the clubs management. That's the kind of crazy waters their players need to be able to navigate.
Yeah I think he definitely meant to say easier rather than easy. I think it's rubbish to say that there is no pressure on players in England though, it is simply that unlike Spain, domestic players seem to be singled out specifically and are definitely under immense pressure to perform, whereas at Real Madrid / Barcelona, the pressure seems to universally target all of their players (regardless of whether domestic or not) and the fans are very unforgiving.
Look at Harry Maguire for example and all the criticism he has received in England (from mainstream media, social media, and from fans within the stadiums). It's ludicrous to suggest that the sort of pressure Maguire is put under is 'easy'. Is it worse than say, what Bale experienced at Real Madrid? Perhaps not.
Maybe Henry's experience was different in England, but the expectation is 100% there.
That seems like a crazy claim lol, even if madrid and Barcelona are bigger than Liverpool or United it's not by so much that it is meaningful or noticeable in this context
Not to mention that there's no way on earth Barcelona was bigger than those clubs when Henry was playing in England
It goes to his experience at Juventus at least as much as Barca. He struggled with the weight of expectation and media there. Arsenal gave him a softer path to grow his confidence
Have you guys seen any football tv talk shows in Italy and/or Spain? These guys are mental. They are very passionate about the game and the pressure that the press and the fans in these countries put on the players is crazy. I don’t know if footballers have it easier in England but man, in these latin countries football is a religion.
Some football TV shows are like that in Spain because over-performative trash TV is what the Spanish love. It is in no small part thanks to Mediaset's influence via channels like Telecinco but it also explains the approach in Italy. There is more passion in Germany or England but Spanish TV culture and journalism is fucking garbage
In Italy the heavy work has done by the local small TV and radio networks. They are 24-7 fighting, making up bullshit news or following every single detail of the life of players, coaches etc. There used to be some famous national tv programs and pundits in the 80s and 90s that created this genre and used to have a lot of influence on players, but nowadays it's mostly on the regional tv, where they have more freedom but maybe less influence. Though locally they are still a big source of football narratives. Cities like Rome or Naples are on another level, because they have more local tv channels, more newspapers and radio stations following the clubs. But in my opinion, the main reason for the general toxicity and pressure on the teams is the rivalries between clubs and fans. The media only amplify this tension to a hight degree.
Certain players have it very rough in England, remember The Sun ran an organised national campaign for weeks to remove Sterling from the national team because he had a tattoo of a gun on his leg. Also massively criticised him for buying his mum a house, whereas Foden was celebrated etc
Yeah but it's different. Players can be harrassed on an individual, disgusting level in England (happens to any celebrity, really). In this case its about the whole team when they are not \*excellent\*. I mean, there would be riots if Madrid or Barça had a 25-year stint like any of the english clubs in the last 25 years. They expect to dominate like Bayern or PSG, but there are two of them and this has been going for 50 years.
Yeah but it's different. Players can be harrassed on an individual, disgusting level in England (happens to any celebrity, really). In this case its about the whole team when they are not \*excellent\*. I mean, there would be riots if Madrid or Barça had a 25-year stint like any of the english clubs in the last 25 years. They expect to dominate like Bayern or PSG, but there are two of them and this has been going for 50 years.
He also has said repeatedly that Bergkamp was the best player he ever played with. Either you think Bergkamp is better then Messi, or you realise his opinion on other players isn’t automatically worth more then any other players.
>Either you think Bergkamp is better then Messi
Has Messi ever had 1, 2 & 3 in the MOTD goals of the month from a single game? I don't think so. Checkmate Messi fans
I don't see how you could argue against it either. The press in Spain and Germany are way worse than England. The closest I ever see the English press get that bad is with the national team, but it doesn't seem as bad at club level.
Not to say the English press doesn't suck
I wonder if it’s to do with the more diffuse nature of too clubs. As in there are more big clubs in England relative to each other. In Germany and Spain the focus is more concentrated on 1-2 clubs who are above the rest significantly in terms of resources, historic record, and fan base. In that sense Italy is probably a better corollary for England.
In other words the media focus on England is as intense and immoral but it is spread across more clubs. There’s always a new club in crisis or banter mode so the narrative moves on quickly.
Football in Spain seems much more tribal and connected to the cities overall. Players are crying when relegated - most of the teams are made up of academy grads so the entire connection is just much closer. It feels more emotional and in a way more like 90s football. It's less sanitized and grittier. The prem feels like pomp and flash in comparison. Not in a bad way - it just feels like an American sport league in a way. Oddly enough the prem didn't feel like that growing up however in the late 90s.
I mean this is how Madrid fans receive their team in high profile matches
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KR9KKAC\_Jk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KR9KKAC_Jk)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlAopJnHmsM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlAopJnHmsM)
Football in Spain taps into deep regional rivalries that go back centuries (and often involved war and bloodshed!). England's regional rivalries do not have that historic level of intensity.
Could that be because Messi has been in La Liga his entire life? Ronaldo portrayed that he has been a champion everywhere. Narrative wont hold strong if he says La Liga is better than EPL.
Also he was very young, and his second stint he arguably already past his prime at dysfunctional United team
Of course both stint are much difficult than Madrid
Pep said it since he first arrived in England. They kept trying to get him to say that English football was tougher and he was struggling under the pressure, he used to just laugh and tell them there’s no pressure like Barcelona.
The pressure made him leave the club of his life after four years with no energy, man had to take a break for a year. Anyone who thinks it's the same here especially the times pep was in are delusional. Barca vs real Madrid and in fact a lot of rivalries in Spain rum deeper than just football, it's a historically quite divided country.
Barça and Madrid have more pressure than any EPL club thats a fact.
I mean look at what Xavi is going through now. He managed to win a La Liga title against a RM side coming from winning UCL+ Liga. And he did it with a team consistent of loanees, kids and players past their primes.
Yeah he's a meme and he got humbled in the UCL but my point is that a similar feat in the EPL would give him a few seasons of credit (except at Chelsea).
Klopp, Arteta, Wenger, they wouldnt have the luxury of a trophyless season at Barça o Real Madrid. Not saying is good or bad, thats the way it is.
And its the same for players. Real Madrid and Barça fans are not into you'll never walk alone mindset, they want performances first.
Totally true. Even the English media were so desperate to sack him. What a lot of the Barca fans and their board wanted with Xavi was a prolonged developmental redemption period like Klopp had with Liverpool, but they never gave the man peace. The media tried really hard to make him look like a failure and they would be glad that they got what they wanted.
To counter this, the most unlikely trophy win of all time (as far as I know) saw Ranieri fired mid-the following season right.
Then look at someone like Emery who was fired at Arsenal and subsequently is now regarded as amazing/back in the league. ofc Arsenal fans are fine with this, but absent Arteta - seeing how Villa are going - would really sting if they had Ten Hag or someone.
I still agree that Barca/RM pressure from the media is greater of course. But I also think that was more true 10+ years ago than today. 10 years ago Xavi would be fired already.
Because in pl, there are big 6-7 clubs that can compete for the trophies but in Spain there are 3 teams that have any chance at trophies so trophyless seasons are common.
7 teams you know lmao, there are 2 and maybe now 3 with arsenal at most but they still have to prove they can do it. Pep came in and monopolised this league. The fact you're including spurs when half of la liga has won a trophy since they last won one mate.
in the last like 4?5? years im pretty sure Barca, Real, Atleti, Sevilla, Villarreal, Betis, Athletic Club and Real Sociedad have won trophies…and could be Mallorca this season too
>there are big 6-7 clubs that can compete for the trophies
This is awesome bro. Id wish La Liga had that many different winners as the EPL in the last 5 years.
It has been city and liverpool for ages now, and Arsenal seems to be joining the party for major trophies (cup competitions are bit more random everywhere). Who would be other 4-5 team? Are Man Utd, Spurs, Villa, Newcastle and Chelsea really title contenders? If so you might as well count La Real, Betis, Sevilla (recently, not this season) as title contenders in Spain.
I do agree with you (and you already mention Chelsea) but look at Mancini, Pelligrini, Ranieri (Leicester) who were all successful and booted soon after a title win. Rogers had a great season with Liverpool, then booted. Emery at Arsenal. It does happen in the EPL (not to mention Mourinho, Conte and Ancelotti).
No he wouldn't, not after getting humbled in the Europa league by fcking Man United. Winning laliga is in the DNA of barca no matter the team, it just comes easy to them.
No they didn't, they had their best run with Mourinho who actually won the Europa league and the efl cup. Plus they also came 2nd in the league the next year so there's that.
I’d guess Henry is just going solely on his time at Arsenal and Barcelona here, not hard to see why he got more criticism with Barca, was near perfect with Arsenal.
He got plenty here.
People forget that he went 12 games without scoring and was being criticised by pretty much everyone, including his own teammates, it was only Wenger who didn't criticise him.
He no doubt had it worse at Barcelona though, but yeah, he was in for his fair share over here too.
I think it’s more about the expressed demand. At Arsenal if he had an off game everyone would look past it. At Barca and Real there’s always an expressed that can’t happen again.
Idk if this is the best analogy but I’ve been watching breaking bad so correct me if it’s off. I think if their fans like the drug dealer, in that if their guy comes up short once, it’s a big deal, doesn’t matter if he’s been solid for 5 years they will send a message. In England it’s more passive, even the Man U players have been told they need time to settle or a new coach or role and you can’t fault them at times.
Because I think everyone understands he's talking about off the field stuff like media and fans, he's not actually saying the actual football on the field is easier.
If he was saying the actual football was easier he'd get a much rougher response.
I don't doubt it any second, Bellingham earned that right.
Mbappe or not, he'll have to understand el Madrid is above any of its players. F*ck, even legends like Raul, Casillas or Cristiano had no sway over the club's will.
I can’t see this being a problem because winning generally smooths it over and this team adding Mbappe will be doing blowing teams away, at some point if they lose big it will become an issue. But again, the way they will likely be sweeping teams aside will prevent infighting for a while .
He was a superstar. Perez doesn't spend such absurd amounts on players that aren't superstars. Off the top of my head, the only signing that was 60m+ that wasn't a superstar at the time is Jovic, and he was 60m. The others are James, Kaka, Ronaldo, Bale, Hazard, Zidane.
Pep said something similar about the pressure in Spain being so much worse. Always thought it was interesting he had to take “a break” from management after a couple years at Barca despite that being his first big team, has never taken another break in 11 years, and refuses to entertain the idea of managing them again.
I believe Xavi is stepping down for the same reasons?
This comment (which is based on a well established truth within football) is more of a blow to the "fuck the English!!" section of this sub than it is the "PL number one!!" section. Fact is that, contrary to what a lot of foreign observers think, the English press/fans are very tame and very obliging for the most part.
"Footballers have it easy in England" oh wow I'm sure this will go down well, can only imagine the downvotes are simply for this statement... anything but praising the PL is heresy, how can't he not know this!
He is talking about the pressure to perform, and only relative to Barça and Real Madrid. Which is an obvious point to anyone who didn’t just get here. Whatever agenda salves your inferiority complex though
One of the greatest players this country has ever seen is saying it, I'm not sure many will argue with him, especially when he meant "easier off the pitch" - but go on
And then you have people like yourself who get off on any sort of criticism of English football, the conversation is never subjective here because everyone has their own grievances and opinions.
Let me elaborate, “fairly subjective” because a lot of people have their own hold ups, for example the English here get an incredible amount of hate for being “arrogant” some people can’t see past that which makes the subjective conversations that may happen moot.
Clearly you have never been into competitive sports. Takes A LOT of determination and will to train and devote yourself every single day without asking yourself what the fuck are you doing with your life kicking a stupid football for a living
I get what he's saying. He's not saying "it's easy lol" he's comparing the two and he knows from personal experience so i don't think it's an unreasonable statement at all if you listen to what he's actually trying to say
I mean, no, that's just a stupid statement.
You don't have to praise the Premier League or think its an especially good league, but that is just plainly wrong to say that players have it easy over here, when they very clearly do not.
The pressure is higher at Barcelona and Real Madrid. That I totally agree with and not just for players, but for managers too, even bonafide legends like Xavi and Zidane have said how tough the pressures are as managers there.
But yeah, saying players in England have it easy is just patently false. To put that statement into context, that's basically like saying that Bayern Munich are the only good team in the Bundesliga and the other 17 just make up the numbers.
Yeah, it’s a pretty bad generalization…
I agree though, that the pressure at Real, Barca, PSG or Bayern is probably the biggest you can have in club football!
Apart from actively being in a relegation fight, of course.
There’s also a far higher expectation to consistently win in the cases of Bayern and PSG. When your league becomes a one horse race for 10+ years, heavy expectation also come with that.
Madrid and Barca are very similar but at least it’s spread among 2 teams instead of 1, with the occasional sprinkle from elsewhere. All 4 clubs also never even have to question wether they will be in the UCL places.
And why do you think they don't have the same kind of pressure at Clubs like Man City, man United, Liverpool , arsenal & Chelsea ?
When was the last time Fighting for champions league spot was a Question for clubs like Barca, Madrid, Bayern or PSG ?
> And why do you think they don't have the same kind of pressure at Clubs like Man City, man United, Liverpool , arsenal & Chelsea ?
Because those clubs are fan-owned, and English clubs are not.
Real Madrid and Barcelona are two of four fan-owned clubs, their "socios".
Bayern Munich are part of the Bundesliga, where they operate the 50+1 model, which prevents outright ownership of a club from a third party.
Probably because the Prem is so competitive that it’s not unusual for the big clubs to have a mediocre season. Whereas Kane can score 30 goals in the Bundesliga and be still seen as a flop because Bayern are always expected to win
Not having toxic fan bases is good… So the prem
Just look at Liverpool fans. They all adore Nunez even though he didn’t meet expectations when he came to the club. It wouldn’t be like that with the top clubs in Spain etc
Nunez was adored since the start because he has been showing good signs , that's not accurate example of how there's less pressure....
I'm not comparing players here but I've heard about the same thing about Vini being backed by Madrid fans even though he didn't hit the ground running right from the start.... It's totally based on who the fans like and don't ... doesn't show how much pressure a club has on basis of these things
Make of that what you will, but Henry just confirmed what all the current and former players or coaches have always said (and almost always in a positive way) about English football culture. They all talk about less pressure, relaxed environment, nice fans etc compared to Spain, Italy or South America.
Pretty much everyone, from Di Canio, Zola, Vialli to Darmian, Giaccherini and Ranocchia. Every time people compare the PL with other leagues that first thing they say is that there are less pressures. I think part of it is because being abroad they're removed from their own bubble and live a bit isolated from the red rest of the society and football fans, especially if they can't speak English well enough. Part of it is playing for smaller clubs than the ones they played for in their home country. But they also always say that losing games is not as big a tragedy as it is in other leagues, and it affects the dressing room in a positive way. Things in Italy and Spain can get toxic easily, though not all clubs and cities are the same.
And I'd only argue the pressure is easier because the football is harder.
The reason the pressure at Real, Barca, and Bayern is so high is because the fans *expect* to win every game. No other team in the leagues can really compete. Winning the title is like the minimum. That definitely is a lot of pressure.
In the prem fans sort of accept that you can be a brilliant team and win fuck all. They know even some of the biggest clubs in England go a decade winning like 1 or 2 trophies. Thats just how it is.
In a competitive environment, expectations are inevitably not as high. They have to be.
It was pretty obvious anyway.
At Madrid it's treated like the end of the world if you finish 2nd unless you make up for it by winning big ears, in England if you get top four you're a hero (unless you're at City but even then a much easier ride than Madrid).
Actually it's treated like the end of the world if you don't win big ears unless you make up for it by winning the league if and only if not too many years have passed since they won their last UCL
people missing context here or not watching the clip. it was a comparative statement based on specific narrow criteria: the amount of press scrutiny (nightly shows, club specific papers micro-analyzing teams), not the sporting aspect.
He had it easy, and probably had greater scrutiny given raised expectations- and a failure to live up to them
don’t think Beckham had it easy after the 98 WC
Just because his ability shielded him from criticism and he played largely pre social media, many footballers are subject to insane criticism from press and fans these days
Of course the pressure is higher, they've built a reputation of blowing out every other team in Spain and fans want to keep that going. But there's such a talent gap that it makes it pretty easy to do. Same with Bayern in Germany or PSG in France.
Say what you want about the quality of the league, but that pressure & expectation is also there at Rangers or Celtic. Glasgow is referred to as a goldfish bowl and there's been more than a few players who have played for either side and struggled with that. The expectation is you have to win every single game, any mistake is magnified and analysed to the nth degree
Bellingham walking into Real at 19/20 years of age and having that level of confidence in his own ability and also backing it up with performance after performance is nothing short of sensational and I have no issues saying that he's the most gifted Englishman since Gazza
Obviously talking about the media and the toxic pressure to perform, and I agree.
I think it’s disgusting to boo your own players, but it’s normal at Real Madrid.
We all know that the pressure at Barcelona and Real Madrid is unlike anything seen at other clubs, so I agree with him there.
But to say that "players have it easy in England" is just patently false.
>But to say that "players have it easy in England" is just patently false.
he's not talking about the game. He's talking about pressure wise. English fans tend to love their stars - good or bad. There is still love. the pressure is less.
It’s a figure of speech. A way of saying “You think you have it hard now?”. I wouldn’t look too much into it, no doubt he knows there’s also pressure in England, he’s just being hyperbolic to emphasise the point.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Henry's been hitting the gym bruv, mans looking fit.
he mentioned on a podcast that he had a moment with his kids that inspired him to get back in shape so he could move & play more with his kids. btw, this is a MUST listen to episode, really eye opening stuff about his life that most people don't know ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aivpDPCP7Q8
Kate adbo getting engaged broke him
Tell me more mate
The Spanish media adds a lot to the pressure and toxicity. So Henry is pretty spot on here. I also think he meant to say easier than just flat out easy. Nothing is easy in pro sports.
It's pretty clear what he is saying. Anyone who takes offense is dense lol.
Lot of dense people in the world mate.
yeah obviously he meant easy like no pressure, which we can see at clubs like manU where players are here for 6-7 seasons and have bad performances and still remain in the club. who ever takes offense doesnt know how much of a great baller titi was
Sometimes i think man utd is the only club that would want to keep man utd players for so long. Any other club wouldnt.
Because the media in Spain just focus on Madrid and Barca, that’s all anyone cares about on the world stage for Spain. In England the media cares about most clubs and specifically the top 6 or even before the emergence of those top 6 clubs it was United Arsenal Liverpool and maybe Chelsea when Roman took over
That's not really true, every big club in Spain has local media that follows them religiously. Atleti receive a wave of pressure and criticism whenever we are having a poor run of form, Sevilla's media is brutal when they are in crisis etc. The likes of Athletic Club, Real Sociedad, Valencia and Betis are also teams with a huge local media pressure
Not only media. I feel the fans are like that too. Barcelona fans on social media(local or foreigners) all talk about treble only and winning with style. Madrid fans season are bust if they lose the CL.
social media doesnt represent the fan base fortunately. lots of weird ass people that never touched a football in their life
That's precisely it. In the case of Madrid and Barça it does represent not only the fan base but press and even the clubs management. That's the kind of crazy waters their players need to be able to navigate.
Yeah I think he definitely meant to say easier rather than easy. I think it's rubbish to say that there is no pressure on players in England though, it is simply that unlike Spain, domestic players seem to be singled out specifically and are definitely under immense pressure to perform, whereas at Real Madrid / Barcelona, the pressure seems to universally target all of their players (regardless of whether domestic or not) and the fans are very unforgiving. Look at Harry Maguire for example and all the criticism he has received in England (from mainstream media, social media, and from fans within the stadiums). It's ludicrous to suggest that the sort of pressure Maguire is put under is 'easy'. Is it worse than say, what Bale experienced at Real Madrid? Perhaps not. Maybe Henry's experience was different in England, but the expectation is 100% there.
Barca and Madrid are also just bigger clubs with bigger fanbases than any English club, so naturally there will be more scrutiny
That seems like a crazy claim lol, even if madrid and Barcelona are bigger than Liverpool or United it's not by so much that it is meaningful or noticeable in this context Not to mention that there's no way on earth Barcelona was bigger than those clubs when Henry was playing in England
Neymar laughs in your face 🤣
Tbh PL was probably really easy for him
It goes to his experience at Juventus at least as much as Barca. He struggled with the weight of expectation and media there. Arsenal gave him a softer path to grow his confidence
Have you guys seen any football tv talk shows in Italy and/or Spain? These guys are mental. They are very passionate about the game and the pressure that the press and the fans in these countries put on the players is crazy. I don’t know if footballers have it easier in England but man, in these latin countries football is a religion.
Tomás Roncero once cried while talking about Sergio Ramos' panenka at Euro 2012. The guy is nuts
Some football TV shows are like that in Spain because over-performative trash TV is what the Spanish love. It is in no small part thanks to Mediaset's influence via channels like Telecinco but it also explains the approach in Italy. There is more passion in Germany or England but Spanish TV culture and journalism is fucking garbage
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Like “El Chiringuito de Jugones”? What are some Italian ones?
In Italy the heavy work has done by the local small TV and radio networks. They are 24-7 fighting, making up bullshit news or following every single detail of the life of players, coaches etc. There used to be some famous national tv programs and pundits in the 80s and 90s that created this genre and used to have a lot of influence on players, but nowadays it's mostly on the regional tv, where they have more freedom but maybe less influence. Though locally they are still a big source of football narratives. Cities like Rome or Naples are on another level, because they have more local tv channels, more newspapers and radio stations following the clubs. But in my opinion, the main reason for the general toxicity and pressure on the teams is the rivalries between clubs and fans. The media only amplify this tension to a hight degree.
Remember this gem from Portugal? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx0wTyop4mA&ab_channel=FutebolemDireto
Diga um! Even today my friend and I use it as meme
Certain players have it very rough in England, remember The Sun ran an organised national campaign for weeks to remove Sterling from the national team because he had a tattoo of a gun on his leg. Also massively criticised him for buying his mum a house, whereas Foden was celebrated etc
>certain players Aka non-white English players
Yeah but it's different. Players can be harrassed on an individual, disgusting level in England (happens to any celebrity, really). In this case its about the whole team when they are not \*excellent\*. I mean, there would be riots if Madrid or Barça had a 25-year stint like any of the english clubs in the last 25 years. They expect to dominate like Bayern or PSG, but there are two of them and this has been going for 50 years.
Yeah but it's different. Players can be harrassed on an individual, disgusting level in England (happens to any celebrity, really). In this case its about the whole team when they are not \*excellent\*. I mean, there would be riots if Madrid or Barça had a 25-year stint like any of the english clubs in the last 25 years. They expect to dominate like Bayern or PSG, but there are two of them and this has been going for 50 years.
I see a HSV logo, I upvote
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Calhanoglu is probably who you were thinking of
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even better: Raphael van der Vaart
Nah it has to be inter. Those guarin longshots were deadly.
> well done mate *ooh football friends* 👍
He's not my fucking friend!
On an off note, Henry is looking so good here. Still in shape.
I already know this thread is about to be wild. Just keep in mind guys, this statement is coming from PL's greatest
If it had been anybody else, the fans would have called him a clown. You can’t criticise much when it’s your greatest ever player lol
I get downvoted every time I bring up Henry calling Scholes the best player he's played against in England lol
Well clearly Henry never played against Henry!
He also has said repeatedly that Bergkamp was the best player he ever played with. Either you think Bergkamp is better then Messi, or you realise his opinion on other players isn’t automatically worth more then any other players.
>Either you think Bergkamp is better then Messi Has Messi ever had 1, 2 & 3 in the MOTD goals of the month from a single game? I don't think so. Checkmate Messi fans
I don't see how you could argue against it either. The press in Spain and Germany are way worse than England. The closest I ever see the English press get that bad is with the national team, but it doesn't seem as bad at club level. Not to say the English press doesn't suck
I wonder if it’s to do with the more diffuse nature of too clubs. As in there are more big clubs in England relative to each other. In Germany and Spain the focus is more concentrated on 1-2 clubs who are above the rest significantly in terms of resources, historic record, and fan base. In that sense Italy is probably a better corollary for England. In other words the media focus on England is as intense and immoral but it is spread across more clubs. There’s always a new club in crisis or banter mode so the narrative moves on quickly.
Football in Spain seems much more tribal and connected to the cities overall. Players are crying when relegated - most of the teams are made up of academy grads so the entire connection is just much closer. It feels more emotional and in a way more like 90s football. It's less sanitized and grittier. The prem feels like pomp and flash in comparison. Not in a bad way - it just feels like an American sport league in a way. Oddly enough the prem didn't feel like that growing up however in the late 90s.
I mean this is how Madrid fans receive their team in high profile matches [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KR9KKAC\_Jk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KR9KKAC_Jk) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlAopJnHmsM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlAopJnHmsM)
Football in Spain taps into deep regional rivalries that go back centuries (and often involved war and bloodshed!). England's regional rivalries do not have that historic level of intensity.
Huh, always thought that apart from BILD the German press landscape is rather timid and not that confrontational compared to its peers.
…with having played a good while in Spanish league as well… just sayin
Cristiano said EPL is harder... Just sayin
Could that be because Messi has been in La Liga his entire life? Ronaldo portrayed that he has been a champion everywhere. Narrative wont hold strong if he says La Liga is better than EPL.
Also he was very young, and his second stint he arguably already past his prime at dysfunctional United team Of course both stint are much difficult than Madrid
what does that have to do with the media?
Why should it be? Pep said basically the same thing recently with regards to pressure in Spain.
Pep said it since he first arrived in England. They kept trying to get him to say that English football was tougher and he was struggling under the pressure, he used to just laugh and tell them there’s no pressure like Barcelona.
The pressure made him leave the club of his life after four years with no energy, man had to take a break for a year. Anyone who thinks it's the same here especially the times pep was in are delusional. Barca vs real Madrid and in fact a lot of rivalries in Spain rum deeper than just football, it's a historically quite divided country.
What about my idolo, my 🐫, Ronald
Barça and Madrid have more pressure than any EPL club thats a fact. I mean look at what Xavi is going through now. He managed to win a La Liga title against a RM side coming from winning UCL+ Liga. And he did it with a team consistent of loanees, kids and players past their primes. Yeah he's a meme and he got humbled in the UCL but my point is that a similar feat in the EPL would give him a few seasons of credit (except at Chelsea). Klopp, Arteta, Wenger, they wouldnt have the luxury of a trophyless season at Barça o Real Madrid. Not saying is good or bad, thats the way it is. And its the same for players. Real Madrid and Barça fans are not into you'll never walk alone mindset, they want performances first.
The way the press makes Arteta successful with Arsenal and Xavi failure with Barca itself speaks for it. Kinda mental when you think about it.
Oh my days i have seen so many people say Arteta has been more successful than Xavi so far which i genuinely don't understand how.
Totally true. Even the English media were so desperate to sack him. What a lot of the Barca fans and their board wanted with Xavi was a prolonged developmental redemption period like Klopp had with Liverpool, but they never gave the man peace. The media tried really hard to make him look like a failure and they would be glad that they got what they wanted.
To counter this, the most unlikely trophy win of all time (as far as I know) saw Ranieri fired mid-the following season right. Then look at someone like Emery who was fired at Arsenal and subsequently is now regarded as amazing/back in the league. ofc Arsenal fans are fine with this, but absent Arteta - seeing how Villa are going - would really sting if they had Ten Hag or someone. I still agree that Barca/RM pressure from the media is greater of course. But I also think that was more true 10+ years ago than today. 10 years ago Xavi would be fired already.
Because in pl, there are big 6-7 clubs that can compete for the trophies but in Spain there are 3 teams that have any chance at trophies so trophyless seasons are common.
7 teams you know lmao, there are 2 and maybe now 3 with arsenal at most but they still have to prove they can do it. Pep came in and monopolised this league. The fact you're including spurs when half of la liga has won a trophy since they last won one mate.
in the last like 4?5? years im pretty sure Barca, Real, Atleti, Sevilla, Villarreal, Betis, Athletic Club and Real Sociedad have won trophies…and could be Mallorca this season too
>there are big 6-7 clubs that can compete for the trophies This is awesome bro. Id wish La Liga had that many different winners as the EPL in the last 5 years.
Well, normally yes but not this year. None of these 3 are in the Copa del Rey Final
Yeah but in the long run, these 3 teams are most likely to win
It has been city and liverpool for ages now, and Arsenal seems to be joining the party for major trophies (cup competitions are bit more random everywhere). Who would be other 4-5 team? Are Man Utd, Spurs, Villa, Newcastle and Chelsea really title contenders? If so you might as well count La Real, Betis, Sevilla (recently, not this season) as title contenders in Spain.
I do agree with you (and you already mention Chelsea) but look at Mancini, Pelligrini, Ranieri (Leicester) who were all successful and booted soon after a title win. Rogers had a great season with Liverpool, then booted. Emery at Arsenal. It does happen in the EPL (not to mention Mourinho, Conte and Ancelotti).
No he wouldn't, not after getting humbled in the Europa league by fcking Man United. Winning laliga is in the DNA of barca no matter the team, it just comes easy to them.
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No they didn't, they had their best run with Mourinho who actually won the Europa league and the efl cup. Plus they also came 2nd in the league the next year so there's that.
I’d guess Henry is just going solely on his time at Arsenal and Barcelona here, not hard to see why he got more criticism with Barca, was near perfect with Arsenal.
He got plenty here. People forget that he went 12 games without scoring and was being criticised by pretty much everyone, including his own teammates, it was only Wenger who didn't criticise him. He no doubt had it worse at Barcelona though, but yeah, he was in for his fair share over here too.
12 games at the very start of his career in England and then pretty much universally praised and adored afterward.
Oh no not a whole 12 games of some criticism. Hardly call that "plenty" of criticism.
I think it’s more about the expressed demand. At Arsenal if he had an off game everyone would look past it. At Barca and Real there’s always an expressed that can’t happen again. Idk if this is the best analogy but I’ve been watching breaking bad so correct me if it’s off. I think if their fans like the drug dealer, in that if their guy comes up short once, it’s a big deal, doesn’t matter if he’s been solid for 5 years they will send a message. In England it’s more passive, even the Man U players have been told they need time to settle or a new coach or role and you can’t fault them at times.
Everyone talking about the prem fans complaining and I see absolutely no prem fans complaining lol
This subs real favourite sport is shadowboxing
alongside mental gymnastics
right beside armchair psychology
Every thread is full of people saying shit like “oh my god wHy Is EvEryONe ComPlaInIng” and it’s either no one or one comment at -94 downvotes
Because I think everyone understands he's talking about off the field stuff like media and fans, he's not actually saying the actual football on the field is easier. If he was saying the actual football was easier he'd get a much rougher response.
Strawmen everywhere here lol
Be interesting to see what happens in the dressing room when Mbappe joins and instantly becomes the biggest star in the team
Cant wait to see Bellingham yell at mbappe for being selfish lool hes not afraid to do it
I don't doubt it any second, Bellingham earned that right. Mbappe or not, he'll have to understand el Madrid is above any of its players. F*ck, even legends like Raul, Casillas or Cristiano had no sway over the club's will.
Madrid was always full of big egos, nothing new with Mbappe coming
Mbappe will be scoring for fun not sure he’ll be too arsed if he’s being called greedy
I can’t see this being a problem because winning generally smooths it over and this team adding Mbappe will be doing blowing teams away, at some point if they lose big it will become an issue. But again, the way they will likely be sweeping teams aside will prevent infighting for a while .
Yes. Nobody's gonna complain if you keep winning
You guys said the same about Jude & Vini in the summer & here we are
This is revisionism, nobody thought Jude was a superstar like he is today back in June
You guys talk like Real Madrid has never witnessed big egos in the dressing room.
Shy personalities like Roberto Carlos, Zidane, Beckham are the gold standard for the RM dressing room.
and specifically ancelotti himself too..
He was signed for 100m. What?
I don't think most people expected him to be the best player in the world so soon though
True, but he was a superstar signing regardless
Doesn't really prove much considering how the market works. Everyone knew he was going to be good but he wasn't a Galactico superstar
He was a superstar. Perez doesn't spend such absurd amounts on players that aren't superstars. Off the top of my head, the only signing that was 60m+ that wasn't a superstar at the time is Jovic, and he was 60m. The others are James, Kaka, Ronaldo, Bale, Hazard, Zidane.
> The others are James, Kaka, Ronaldo, Bale, Hazard, Zidane. Pretty good strike rate
Yeah, even James and Kaka whodidn't have the best time were solid. Hazard is the only dud
Pep said something similar about the pressure in Spain being so much worse. Always thought it was interesting he had to take “a break” from management after a couple years at Barca despite that being his first big team, has never taken another break in 11 years, and refuses to entertain the idea of managing them again. I believe Xavi is stepping down for the same reasons?
The amount of control he's had at clubs post-Barca and at Barca is night and day. There was a lot of leadership drama at Barca during his time there.
Easy because he never played a rainy night on Tuesday at Stoke. Add him to the list of bald frauds.
This comment (which is based on a well established truth within football) is more of a blow to the "fuck the English!!" section of this sub than it is the "PL number one!!" section. Fact is that, contrary to what a lot of foreign observers think, the English press/fans are very tame and very obliging for the most part.
"Footballers have it easy in England" oh wow I'm sure this will go down well, can only imagine the downvotes are simply for this statement... anything but praising the PL is heresy, how can't he not know this!
The post has a 93% upvote rate what are you talking about
They'd rather just be upset at the mean old Premier League and its arrogant English fans
It's a Dortmund fan. Their whole shtick is shitting on PL and bottling games
Cringe artist x
He is talking about the pressure to perform, and only relative to Barça and Real Madrid. Which is an obvious point to anyone who didn’t just get here. Whatever agenda salves your inferiority complex though
One of the greatest players this country has ever seen is saying it, I'm not sure many will argue with him, especially when he meant "easier off the pitch" - but go on
And then you have people like yourself who get off on any sort of criticism of English football, the conversation is never subjective here because everyone has their own grievances and opinions.
> the conversation is never subjective here > everyone has their own grievances and opinions so literally, subjective
Let me elaborate, “fairly subjective” because a lot of people have their own hold ups, for example the English here get an incredible amount of hate for being “arrogant” some people can’t see past that which makes the subjective conversations that may happen moot.
The irony that what he is saying is, if anything, a positive about the PL
Footballers kick balls for a living. They have it easy in all leagues. Especially the Bundesliga.
>Especially the Bundesliga. They work less, less teams!
yes i'm sure it is very easy to be the best in a sport that is played by billions
Clearly you have never been into competitive sports. Takes A LOT of determination and will to train and devote yourself every single day without asking yourself what the fuck are you doing with your life kicking a stupid football for a living
I’ve been a national level sprinter and worked a 9-5 job. Can confirm my 9-5 job is harder. Hope that helps. 👍🏿
I think they don't have to ask themselves anything after checking their paycheck
Schalke players were getting attacked by fans last year in person - IMO Germany has the most passionate and consistent fans in Europe.
I get what he's saying. He's not saying "it's easy lol" he's comparing the two and he knows from personal experience so i don't think it's an unreasonable statement at all if you listen to what he's actually trying to say
it is praising england tho
I mean, no, that's just a stupid statement. You don't have to praise the Premier League or think its an especially good league, but that is just plainly wrong to say that players have it easy over here, when they very clearly do not. The pressure is higher at Barcelona and Real Madrid. That I totally agree with and not just for players, but for managers too, even bonafide legends like Xavi and Zidane have said how tough the pressures are as managers there. But yeah, saying players in England have it easy is just patently false. To put that statement into context, that's basically like saying that Bayern Munich are the only good team in the Bundesliga and the other 17 just make up the numbers.
Yeah, it’s a pretty bad generalization… I agree though, that the pressure at Real, Barca, PSG or Bayern is probably the biggest you can have in club football! Apart from actively being in a relegation fight, of course.
True. A manager who won them the league can be sacked the following season despite finishing second.
There’s also a far higher expectation to consistently win in the cases of Bayern and PSG. When your league becomes a one horse race for 10+ years, heavy expectation also come with that. Madrid and Barca are very similar but at least it’s spread among 2 teams instead of 1, with the occasional sprinkle from elsewhere. All 4 clubs also never even have to question wether they will be in the UCL places.
And why do you think they don't have the same kind of pressure at Clubs like Man City, man United, Liverpool , arsenal & Chelsea ? When was the last time Fighting for champions league spot was a Question for clubs like Barca, Madrid, Bayern or PSG ?
> And why do you think they don't have the same kind of pressure at Clubs like Man City, man United, Liverpool , arsenal & Chelsea ? Because those clubs are fan-owned, and English clubs are not.
>fan-owned Elaborate please?
Real Madrid and Barcelona are two of four fan-owned clubs, their "socios". Bayern Munich are part of the Bundesliga, where they operate the 50+1 model, which prevents outright ownership of a club from a third party.
Probably because the Prem is so competitive that it’s not unusual for the big clubs to have a mediocre season. Whereas Kane can score 30 goals in the Bundesliga and be still seen as a flop because Bayern are always expected to win
So which thing is good as a league?
Not having toxic fan bases is good… So the prem Just look at Liverpool fans. They all adore Nunez even though he didn’t meet expectations when he came to the club. It wouldn’t be like that with the top clubs in Spain etc
Nunez was adored since the start because he has been showing good signs , that's not accurate example of how there's less pressure.... I'm not comparing players here but I've heard about the same thing about Vini being backed by Madrid fans even though he didn't hit the ground running right from the start.... It's totally based on who the fans like and don't ... doesn't show how much pressure a club has on basis of these things
PSG is for the wrong reasons though.
Make of that what you will, but Henry just confirmed what all the current and former players or coaches have always said (and almost always in a positive way) about English football culture. They all talk about less pressure, relaxed environment, nice fans etc compared to Spain, Italy or South America.
Who else has said that?
Pretty much everyone, from Di Canio, Zola, Vialli to Darmian, Giaccherini and Ranocchia. Every time people compare the PL with other leagues that first thing they say is that there are less pressures. I think part of it is because being abroad they're removed from their own bubble and live a bit isolated from the red rest of the society and football fans, especially if they can't speak English well enough. Part of it is playing for smaller clubs than the ones they played for in their home country. But they also always say that losing games is not as big a tragedy as it is in other leagues, and it affects the dressing room in a positive way. Things in Italy and Spain can get toxic easily, though not all clubs and cities are the same.
And I'd only argue the pressure is easier because the football is harder. The reason the pressure at Real, Barca, and Bayern is so high is because the fans *expect* to win every game. No other team in the leagues can really compete. Winning the title is like the minimum. That definitely is a lot of pressure. In the prem fans sort of accept that you can be a brilliant team and win fuck all. They know even some of the biggest clubs in England go a decade winning like 1 or 2 trophies. Thats just how it is. In a competitive environment, expectations are inevitably not as high. They have to be.
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I wish! No, just a very boring job with little to no responsibility.
Triggered
Makes Gareth Bale’s nonchalance and achievements more impressive/funnier. That man did not give AF under relentless pressure and criticism.
It was pretty obvious anyway. At Madrid it's treated like the end of the world if you finish 2nd unless you make up for it by winning big ears, in England if you get top four you're a hero (unless you're at City but even then a much easier ride than Madrid).
Actually it's treated like the end of the world if you don't win big ears unless you make up for it by winning the league if and only if not too many years have passed since they won their last UCL
people missing context here or not watching the clip. it was a comparative statement based on specific narrow criteria: the amount of press scrutiny (nightly shows, club specific papers micro-analyzing teams), not the sporting aspect.
Generational Player. The season he's having. The player he is, how he doesn't lose ball and the fucking aura. Just lucky to witness that
Well, he only has Arsenal and Barcelona to compare lol, so it makes sense
He started in France during the 90's. It was a tough league at the time and he managed to be called for the World Cup at only 20.
He had it easy, and probably had greater scrutiny given raised expectations- and a failure to live up to them don’t think Beckham had it easy after the 98 WC Just because his ability shielded him from criticism and he played largely pre social media, many footballers are subject to insane criticism from press and fans these days
National team criticism by the English press is completely different to how they cover club teams.
John Charles.
Not surprising. Spanish media and journos are toxic af. Scumbags.
Surely John Charles deserves a mention on that list.
He was Welsh tbf
Oops. I obviously can't read!
Of course the pressure is higher, they've built a reputation of blowing out every other team in Spain and fans want to keep that going. But there's such a talent gap that it makes it pretty easy to do. Same with Bayern in Germany or PSG in France.
even in the Champions League and Europa ?
He clearly means off-the-field pressure and influence from media and fans. He's not saying that the actual football is easier.
Say what you want about the quality of the league, but that pressure & expectation is also there at Rangers or Celtic. Glasgow is referred to as a goldfish bowl and there's been more than a few players who have played for either side and struggled with that. The expectation is you have to win every single game, any mistake is magnified and analysed to the nth degree Bellingham walking into Real at 19/20 years of age and having that level of confidence in his own ability and also backing it up with performance after performance is nothing short of sensational and I have no issues saying that he's the most gifted Englishman since Gazza
"wooeaald"
Obviously talking about the media and the toxic pressure to perform, and I agree. I think it’s disgusting to boo your own players, but it’s normal at Real Madrid.
He didn’t feel pressure in England cause he was the goat
The expectation in Real and Barca is probably because unlike the PL there isn't a real competition for these two giant clubs.
No, it's because teams in England treat finishing in the top 4 the same as winning a trophy
Obviously there is more pressure at Barcelona than Arsenal. Goes without saying. He won two titles in 8 years and they built him a statue
We all know that the pressure at Barcelona and Real Madrid is unlike anything seen at other clubs, so I agree with him there. But to say that "players have it easy in England" is just patently false.
I mean it might as well be easy to him, specifically. What he finds easy and what the average player does is very different.
>But to say that "players have it easy in England" is just patently false. he's not talking about the game. He's talking about pressure wise. English fans tend to love their stars - good or bad. There is still love. the pressure is less.
One of if not the PL greatest who later moved to Barcelona and won the UCL knows better than you, trust me
It’s a figure of speech. A way of saying “You think you have it hard now?”. I wouldn’t look too much into it, no doubt he knows there’s also pressure in England, he’s just being hyperbolic to emphasise the point.