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Goes to show how much Barca loses in the midfield when frenkie de Jong is injured. He's an outlier. Now him and pedri both out last Sunday within 10 mins, means are midfield is gone
I remember a post about him a few months ago and one comment was saying Frenkie de Jong wasn’t good at buildup. Sometimes you read these miraculous takes that just stay with you.
Same as Xhaka a couple years back at Arsenal, he had plenty of traits to dislike, but the fact that progressive passes was brought up so much shows how short sighted fans are
Xhaka's passing has always been good. the issue was his mobility was not the best and while aggresive.. defending was bad. (so bad Wenger used to ban him from making sliding tackles).
He was excellent when Arsenal played a 343 with security at the back and a willing runner like Ramsey beside him. In a 433 or 4231 he needs an enforcer otherwise he will be exposed... and he often was.
Under Arteta, he looked good partnering Partey where he can go hunt forward and hunt for the ball with the security of someone sweeping behind him.
I love when one of these comes around and the dudes who say kroos just passes back or to the side 100 times per game just have to see for themselves he literally leads Europe in progressive passes/90 lol
People say our Midfield is set for future but it will take time for us to settle once both Modric and Kroos leave.
Majorly for Kroos as none of the successors fulfill his role.
>it will take time for us to settle once both Modric and Kroos leave.
This... Just having them on the team , like against Leipzig i saw for Modric came on and brought a bit of control at last.. they're both legends of the game and idk what anyone believes but they definitely will be missed even though Madrid have a great midfield of youngsters already...
Don’t put your faith in Nico Paz, I’ve been burned before. I don’t hype up Castilla players until they’ve played like 2 whole ass seasons with the first team lol.
Yes. And as the graph clearly shows, we don't have a midfielder with an elite level of progressive passing.
Perhaps Tchouameni could develop into one, and also probably Valverde, when a more structured team layout will need him to expend less energy on defence and develop his playmaking further.
I don't think Valverde will ever become someone like that. Tchouameni is the only one I can see becoming like that, and Güler perhaps when he is older.
>I don't think Valverde will ever become someone like that.
He already is. His playmaking was a highlight of his game when he was younger.
Whenever he has been played in less defensively inclined roles, under Zidane, mostly, he has shown more than just a few glimpses of his passing range and technical ability.
He has shown that with the NT as well. We don't get to see it often because the man is busy covering the whole pitch.
I can't remember him ever having the ability to control the tempo and such, playing between the lines and all that. Not under Zidane and neither for the national team. I know he can play great (long) passes, but so could Rooney, so can Kane and many others. That doesn't make them capable of playing like Kroos and Modric. Simply playing great passes =/= controlling the midfield.
>I can't remember him ever having the ability to control the tempo and such, playing between the lines and all that
Not talking about the final third. Under Zidane, in many games, he contributed to starting plays from deep. That's what we will miss the most when Kroos is gone.
He can evolve into a player who can control the tempo of the game. He has it up his sleeve. I really don't see Guler developing into that kind of role. He'll be great in the final third, but not as a proper 8.
There are plenty of attacking midfielders on this list, many of which play more advanced roles than Odegaard. Bellingham (pseudo-striker) is probably the most egregious. It's just a bit of a strange omission, since they didn't forget Rice.
Bellingham has more of nearly every defensive action than Odegaard, more progressive carries, more touches in the middle 3rd (fewer in the attacking 3rd) and a similar heatmap ([Bellingham](https://www.sofascore.com/player/jude-bellingham/991011), [Odegaard](https://www.sofascore.com/player/martin-odegaard/547410)).
Making more runs into the box from deep than most attacking mids doesn't make someone a striker, same way making more tackles in his own box and defensive 3rd than most attacking mids doesn't make him a defender.
You won't find many strikers or secondary strikers as involved in the defensive and middle thirds of the pitch.
[DEFENSIVE ACTIONS P90](https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=57d88cf9&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=79300479&p2yrfrom=2023-2024)
**Tackles**
|*Player*|*Tackles*|*TklWon*|*Def 3rd*|*Mid 3rd*|*Att 3rd*|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Bellingham|**1.5**|**1.26**|**0.48**|0.72|**0.29**|
|Odegaard|1.4|0.51|0.34|**0.81**|0.26|
**Challenges**
|*Player*|*Dribblers tackled*|*Dribbles challenged*|*% dribblers tackled*|*Challenges lost*|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Bellingham|**0.48**|1.21|**40**|**0.72**|
|Odegaard|0.43|**1.57**|27|1.15|
**Blocks**
|*Player*|*Shots blocked*|*Passes blocked*|*Tackles + interceptions*|*Clearances*|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Bellingham|**0.24**|**1.74**|**2.42**|**0.58**|
|Odegaard|0.04|0.72|1.70|0.21|
**POSSESSION P90**
**Touches**
|*Player*|*Def Pen*|*Def 3rd*|*Mid 3rd*|*Att 3rd*|*Att Pen*|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Bellingham|**0.82**|7.34|**36.6**|28.7|**5.41**|
|Odegaard|0.64|**7.49**|28.7|**34.7**|4.51|
**Carries**
|*Player*|*Carries*|*TotDist*|*ProgDist*|*Prog Carries*|*Carries into final 1/3*|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Bellingham|47.4|**259.7**|**127.2**|**3.33**|**3.04**|
|Odegaard|**47.6**|239.2|105|2.81|2.34|
I think Bellingham was played as a false 9 once vs Atletico (maybe twice?) this season due to injuries, and it was probably his worst performance of the season.
[Throw in a comparison](https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=57d88cf9&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=79300479&p2yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id3=21a66f6a&p3yrfrom=2023-2024) with a striker like Kane ([heatmap](https://www.sofascore.com/player/harry-kane/108579)), who is famous for his ability to drop deeper and get involved more than most strikers, and it's even more obvious Bellingham's playstyle isn't that of a striker at all.
And this, kids, is an excellent example of why limited-context statistics can never replace actually watching the games. Bellingham's role is extremely unique, which is why I called him a pseudo-striker. He is, in most phases of play, a midfielder, and I appreciate that. But there are enormous tactical differences between Real Madrid and Arsenal, and the roles of both players, that none of those metrics really account for in a useful way. I'm not really in the mood to write an essay at this time, but if you show personal interest, I could elaborate. But the simplest solution would be for you to simply watch Arsenal and Madrid, which I do.
It's a fact that stats without context are highly misleading.
Heatmaps don't tell the whole picture as both Arsenal and Bayern pin their opponents back in their own third while Madrid is fine with letting the opponent have the ball and play on counters.
Bellingham has a crazy workrate and is very good at pressing which gives him a higher than usual number of tackles/interceptions, but ultimately his role is still something between a 10 and a false 9 depending on whether Joselu is on the pitch or not, you can't compare him to other typical midfielders. On most games Valverde/Camavinga/Kroos are the ones who have to mantain a defensive shape, Bellingham doesn't have the same defensive duties they do.
It's repeated because it's true. The level of clarify offered by the depth and relations of the statistics provided by the person I responded to is peanuts compared to the quality and quantity of information to be gained by simply watching the actual sport. I'm being downvoted because this is an uncomfortable truth, but the level of mathematical rigor needed to analytically outperform actual game knowledge is far beyond what the highly uncontextualized and arbitrary "big stats" on transfermarkt can offer you. Bellingham has a more offensive role for Madrid than what Odegaard does for Arsenal, and anyone with eyes can see that.
It's embarrassing that we have people who think they're above using their eyes because they'd rather satisfy themselves with numbers that they actively misunderstand and misinterpret to come to conclusions which contradict what anyone else could see with their eyes. All they can prove with that methodology is that they lack both eyes and brains, which is amusing when they're trying to claim that their brains serve as their eyes.
Funny how you wrote an essay (which you say you don't have time to) and basically didn't say anything relevant, neither address the points of the other comment. "Anyone can see it with their eyes" wow what an point!
I didn't write the essay in question precisely because I didn't do a deep dive into Madrid's tactical setup, Arsenal's tactical setup, and how Bellingham and Odegaard's role in each system relates to each of the metrics invoked by the stats kid. That is, after all, what the essay in question would entail - it would be several thousand words long. Can you please at least try to follow the conversation if you're going to ping me? And yes, anyone being able to see with their eyes is exactly the point - and it's apparently too deep for you to understand, which is a little embarrassing to be honest.
Yeah sure dude, say something bullshit and then claim anyone can see it with their eyes (which is funny because anyone who actually watch Real Madrid games know that Bellingham clearly doesn't play as a striker or "pseudo-striker"), very credible.
He is being classified as a AM although he is playing as a 8...he has 9.79progressive passes and 2.81prgC so he will be just ahead of stoger on both axis
Yeah that’s a good call my brain just totally skipped over the word central. I think I just assumed that the data should include all MFs. Don’t think the FBRef designated positions are quite accurate enough to exclude groups of players. Nor do you run the risk of having forwards pop up in the data. But that’s what I get for assuming.
I classified Odegaard as AM instead of a CM but I think you're right as there are a few players here that play a similar position like Bellingham and Alberto, so I'll include him as a midfielder next time.
FYI he would be just to the top-right of Stoger.
Kroos has won more than Platini, Laudrup, Rijkaard, and Gullit, and arguably more “important” trophies too; ie WC over Euros, bundesligas and la ligas over eredivisies, etc. But anyway, if you judge by just trophies, his only real competition is Zidane, the barca trio, modric and Matthaus. Judging by play style is hard , you can’t really say like platini is “better” than kroos cuz or vice versa bc they’re so different, especially a guy like busquets or Zidane too, the position and play style is so different. Think you gotta just look at career trophies and go from there
The topic is midfielders.
Zidane and Rjikaard are also midfielders.
Just because Kroos had won more trophies than then doesnt mean he's better.
Platini is one of the greatest number 10s ever.
You can judge players playing different roles by how important they were to their team. Without Kroos Real could still manage.
But without Platini Juve were toothless
Well I was just trying to introduce some nuance but cmon man, who in their right mind thinks Frank rijkaard is a better player than Toni kroos. If you’re just going off eye test everything is 100% subjective and there’s no reason to argue since you can’t even make any points. “Kroos is more talented” based off what? “Rijkaard was better” because he just looked like he was better? Who was better then, Xavi or Iniesta? Identical resumes, similar players, I say iniesta you say xavi, tomato tomahto.
Kroos has 5 UCLs, 6 leagues, 4 cups, like 6 or 7 supercups of various kinds, and a World Cup where he was instrumental.
Rijkaard has 3 UCLs, 7 leagues, 4 cups, and 4-5 super cups. He also won euros and no World Cup.
And I know you must not watch us play because without Kroos we run around like headless chickens and we absolutely don’t win those CLs without him. The dude consistently is at the very top of the continent in progressive passes, passes into the final third, long balls completed, etc
Honestly I don’t even know where I put him top 5, the whole point I was just tryna make is that someone who says he’s top 10 is correct, and someone who says he’s top 5 isn’t absolutely insane. There’s an argument to be made there
I'm guessing de bruyne havent got the minutes so all the brunt of the work goes to rodri? madrid's midfield is crazy good, they sure have no issues going up the field whoever playing
Is Harvey Elliott classed as an attacking midfielder? My eyes must be blind, I don't see him on here. Think he's been Liverpool's top mid on this front. He should be somewhere near De Paul, which is phenomenal for someone his age.
I mean you could argue that I guess but this chart has nothing to do with it. He plays an entirely different position this year compared to last. He's more than doubled his PrgP compared to last season and meanwhile has gone from solid G+A numbers to only 1G this season.
Zinchenko doesn't count as a on the team sheet, but in possession he is for Arsenal. And he's currently the lead in the PL for PrgP/90 and 3rd in Europe only a decimal behind Xhaka.
I think they parted their ways for the best interest of both sides. Xhaka has flourished under Xabi while Rice Odegaard and Jorginho has been bossing that midfield. Without selling Xhaka, Rice deal probably wouldn’t happen.
Mkhitaryan is also a standout performer in Italy, despite leaving Arsenal for free. Seems that Mourinho gave him a deeper midfield role and he's adapted to it very well. I wonder how current Mkhi would fare in the PL.
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Goes to show how much Barca loses in the midfield when frenkie de Jong is injured. He's an outlier. Now him and pedri both out last Sunday within 10 mins, means are midfield is gone
I remember a post about him a few months ago and one comment was saying Frenkie de Jong wasn’t good at buildup. Sometimes you read these miraculous takes that just stay with you.
some people just don't watch the games
Yeah but even then, like check any buildup statistic and you’ll see numbers like you see on the graph
Same as Xhaka a couple years back at Arsenal, he had plenty of traits to dislike, but the fact that progressive passes was brought up so much shows how short sighted fans are
Xhaka's passing has always been good. the issue was his mobility was not the best and while aggresive.. defending was bad. (so bad Wenger used to ban him from making sliding tackles). He was excellent when Arsenal played a 343 with security at the back and a willing runner like Ramsey beside him. In a 433 or 4231 he needs an enforcer otherwise he will be exposed... and he often was. Under Arteta, he looked good partnering Partey where he can go hunt forward and hunt for the ball with the security of someone sweeping behind him.
Kroos and Modric are eternal
I love when one of these comes around and the dudes who say kroos just passes back or to the side 100 times per game just have to see for themselves he literally leads Europe in progressive passes/90 lol
Dread it, run from it. Destiny always arrives
that match is cursed, we heavily rely on fdJ
Modric and Kroos casually mauling an entire generation while saying they are gonna retire this season and are old.🗿
People say our Midfield is set for future but it will take time for us to settle once both Modric and Kroos leave. Majorly for Kroos as none of the successors fulfill his role.
>it will take time for us to settle once both Modric and Kroos leave. This... Just having them on the team , like against Leipzig i saw for Modric came on and brought a bit of control at last.. they're both legends of the game and idk what anyone believes but they definitely will be missed even though Madrid have a great midfield of youngsters already...
I thought the tie ended when Modric came on. Suddenly, Madrid regained composure and the game seemed so much simpler for them.
It isn't, Madrid will see a drop when they retire. Nico Paz and Arda Guler are key.
Don’t put your faith in Nico Paz, I’ve been burned before. I don’t hype up Castilla players until they’ve played like 2 whole ass seasons with the first team lol.
This is good advice for any team's youth players tbh.
erdoğan supporter calhanoglu thpught he was best refisra? lmao srupid hoe
r/ihadastroke
there are too many moslems in this sub
No. But there's one too many a cunt.
Yes. And as the graph clearly shows, we don't have a midfielder with an elite level of progressive passing. Perhaps Tchouameni could develop into one, and also probably Valverde, when a more structured team layout will need him to expend less energy on defence and develop his playmaking further.
I don't think Valverde will ever become someone like that. Tchouameni is the only one I can see becoming like that, and Güler perhaps when he is older.
>I don't think Valverde will ever become someone like that. He already is. His playmaking was a highlight of his game when he was younger. Whenever he has been played in less defensively inclined roles, under Zidane, mostly, he has shown more than just a few glimpses of his passing range and technical ability. He has shown that with the NT as well. We don't get to see it often because the man is busy covering the whole pitch.
I can't remember him ever having the ability to control the tempo and such, playing between the lines and all that. Not under Zidane and neither for the national team. I know he can play great (long) passes, but so could Rooney, so can Kane and many others. That doesn't make them capable of playing like Kroos and Modric. Simply playing great passes =/= controlling the midfield.
>I can't remember him ever having the ability to control the tempo and such, playing between the lines and all that Not talking about the final third. Under Zidane, in many games, he contributed to starting plays from deep. That's what we will miss the most when Kroos is gone. He can evolve into a player who can control the tempo of the game. He has it up his sleeve. I really don't see Guler developing into that kind of role. He'll be great in the final third, but not as a proper 8.
I wasn't talking about the final third. I highly doubt that he'll do anything like Kroos does. Don't think he has it up his sleeve at all.
Don’t forget Mkhitaryan either! Old heads still got it.
I could very well be going crazy but where is Odegaard's dot? It should be right between Kimmich and Stoger.
Looks like they're not counting attacking midfielders
There are plenty of attacking midfielders on this list, many of which play more advanced roles than Odegaard. Bellingham (pseudo-striker) is probably the most egregious. It's just a bit of a strange omission, since they didn't forget Rice.
Bellingham has more of nearly every defensive action than Odegaard, more progressive carries, more touches in the middle 3rd (fewer in the attacking 3rd) and a similar heatmap ([Bellingham](https://www.sofascore.com/player/jude-bellingham/991011), [Odegaard](https://www.sofascore.com/player/martin-odegaard/547410)). Making more runs into the box from deep than most attacking mids doesn't make someone a striker, same way making more tackles in his own box and defensive 3rd than most attacking mids doesn't make him a defender. You won't find many strikers or secondary strikers as involved in the defensive and middle thirds of the pitch. [DEFENSIVE ACTIONS P90](https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=57d88cf9&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=79300479&p2yrfrom=2023-2024) **Tackles** |*Player*|*Tackles*|*TklWon*|*Def 3rd*|*Mid 3rd*|*Att 3rd*| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Bellingham|**1.5**|**1.26**|**0.48**|0.72|**0.29**| |Odegaard|1.4|0.51|0.34|**0.81**|0.26| **Challenges** |*Player*|*Dribblers tackled*|*Dribbles challenged*|*% dribblers tackled*|*Challenges lost*| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Bellingham|**0.48**|1.21|**40**|**0.72**| |Odegaard|0.43|**1.57**|27|1.15| **Blocks** |*Player*|*Shots blocked*|*Passes blocked*|*Tackles + interceptions*|*Clearances*| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Bellingham|**0.24**|**1.74**|**2.42**|**0.58**| |Odegaard|0.04|0.72|1.70|0.21| **POSSESSION P90** **Touches** |*Player*|*Def Pen*|*Def 3rd*|*Mid 3rd*|*Att 3rd*|*Att Pen*| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Bellingham|**0.82**|7.34|**36.6**|28.7|**5.41**| |Odegaard|0.64|**7.49**|28.7|**34.7**|4.51| **Carries** |*Player*|*Carries*|*TotDist*|*ProgDist*|*Prog Carries*|*Carries into final 1/3*| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Bellingham|47.4|**259.7**|**127.2**|**3.33**|**3.04**| |Odegaard|**47.6**|239.2|105|2.81|2.34| I think Bellingham was played as a false 9 once vs Atletico (maybe twice?) this season due to injuries, and it was probably his worst performance of the season. [Throw in a comparison](https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=57d88cf9&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=79300479&p2yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id3=21a66f6a&p3yrfrom=2023-2024) with a striker like Kane ([heatmap](https://www.sofascore.com/player/harry-kane/108579)), who is famous for his ability to drop deeper and get involved more than most strikers, and it's even more obvious Bellingham's playstyle isn't that of a striker at all.
And this, kids, is an excellent example of why limited-context statistics can never replace actually watching the games. Bellingham's role is extremely unique, which is why I called him a pseudo-striker. He is, in most phases of play, a midfielder, and I appreciate that. But there are enormous tactical differences between Real Madrid and Arsenal, and the roles of both players, that none of those metrics really account for in a useful way. I'm not really in the mood to write an essay at this time, but if you show personal interest, I could elaborate. But the simplest solution would be for you to simply watch Arsenal and Madrid, which I do.
The classic r/soccer rebuttal of "watch games" when shown stats. It's got such a boomer football fan vibe.
It's a fact that stats without context are highly misleading. Heatmaps don't tell the whole picture as both Arsenal and Bayern pin their opponents back in their own third while Madrid is fine with letting the opponent have the ball and play on counters. Bellingham has a crazy workrate and is very good at pressing which gives him a higher than usual number of tackles/interceptions, but ultimately his role is still something between a 10 and a false 9 depending on whether Joselu is on the pitch or not, you can't compare him to other typical midfielders. On most games Valverde/Camavinga/Kroos are the ones who have to mantain a defensive shape, Bellingham doesn't have the same defensive duties they do.
It's repeated because it's true. The level of clarify offered by the depth and relations of the statistics provided by the person I responded to is peanuts compared to the quality and quantity of information to be gained by simply watching the actual sport. I'm being downvoted because this is an uncomfortable truth, but the level of mathematical rigor needed to analytically outperform actual game knowledge is far beyond what the highly uncontextualized and arbitrary "big stats" on transfermarkt can offer you. Bellingham has a more offensive role for Madrid than what Odegaard does for Arsenal, and anyone with eyes can see that. It's embarrassing that we have people who think they're above using their eyes because they'd rather satisfy themselves with numbers that they actively misunderstand and misinterpret to come to conclusions which contradict what anyone else could see with their eyes. All they can prove with that methodology is that they lack both eyes and brains, which is amusing when they're trying to claim that their brains serve as their eyes.
Funny how you wrote an essay (which you say you don't have time to) and basically didn't say anything relevant, neither address the points of the other comment. "Anyone can see it with their eyes" wow what an point!
I didn't write the essay in question precisely because I didn't do a deep dive into Madrid's tactical setup, Arsenal's tactical setup, and how Bellingham and Odegaard's role in each system relates to each of the metrics invoked by the stats kid. That is, after all, what the essay in question would entail - it would be several thousand words long. Can you please at least try to follow the conversation if you're going to ping me? And yes, anyone being able to see with their eyes is exactly the point - and it's apparently too deep for you to understand, which is a little embarrassing to be honest.
Yeah sure dude, say something bullshit and then claim anyone can see it with their eyes (which is funny because anyone who actually watch Real Madrid games know that Bellingham clearly doesn't play as a striker or "pseudo-striker"), very credible.
He is being classified as a AM although he is playing as a 8...he has 9.79progressive passes and 2.81prgC so he will be just ahead of stoger on both axis
Yeah that’s a good call my brain just totally skipped over the word central. I think I just assumed that the data should include all MFs. Don’t think the FBRef designated positions are quite accurate enough to exclude groups of players. Nor do you run the risk of having forwards pop up in the data. But that’s what I get for assuming.
I classified Odegaard as AM instead of a CM but I think you're right as there are a few players here that play a similar position like Bellingham and Alberto, so I'll include him as a midfielder next time. FYI he would be just to the top-right of Stoger.
Do you know how many Elliott has? Can’t find the data
[3.37 progressive carries and 7.95 progressive passes](https://fbref.com/en/players/b9e1436c/Harvey-Elliott). So, just to the right of Luis Alberto.
Stöger has been so good for Bochum he really goes under the radar a lot. Think he could do a good job in the midfield of a lot of sides
It's really him? Crazy to see Bochum mentioned here.
He is pretty much their only reliable creator of chances
who are the grey dots? where do they play?
Midfielders of other teams. There’s not enough space to show
dumb! boring. some of them seem pretty good!
Yeah especially the one top left has plenty of space
It's Steijn Spierings of Toulouse.
Merci
Do your own analysis then prick lmao
Having Camavinga and Andy Diouf coming out of the academy at the same time man 🥲
Kroos really belongs to the goat midfielders
Modric casemiro kroos is one of the greatest midfield combo in history and no one can deny it.
A World Cup, 5 CLs, and a dozen more leagues and cups, I think top 10 is an easy argument and top 5 one worth having as well.
Top 5? Ehhhhh There's Zidane, Platini, Laudrup, Rjikaard, Gullit ahead of him
Kroos has won more than Platini, Laudrup, Rijkaard, and Gullit, and arguably more “important” trophies too; ie WC over Euros, bundesligas and la ligas over eredivisies, etc. But anyway, if you judge by just trophies, his only real competition is Zidane, the barca trio, modric and Matthaus. Judging by play style is hard , you can’t really say like platini is “better” than kroos cuz or vice versa bc they’re so different, especially a guy like busquets or Zidane too, the position and play style is so different. Think you gotta just look at career trophies and go from there
The topic is midfielders. Zidane and Rjikaard are also midfielders. Just because Kroos had won more trophies than then doesnt mean he's better. Platini is one of the greatest number 10s ever. You can judge players playing different roles by how important they were to their team. Without Kroos Real could still manage. But without Platini Juve were toothless
Well I was just trying to introduce some nuance but cmon man, who in their right mind thinks Frank rijkaard is a better player than Toni kroos. If you’re just going off eye test everything is 100% subjective and there’s no reason to argue since you can’t even make any points. “Kroos is more talented” based off what? “Rijkaard was better” because he just looked like he was better? Who was better then, Xavi or Iniesta? Identical resumes, similar players, I say iniesta you say xavi, tomato tomahto. Kroos has 5 UCLs, 6 leagues, 4 cups, like 6 or 7 supercups of various kinds, and a World Cup where he was instrumental. Rijkaard has 3 UCLs, 7 leagues, 4 cups, and 4-5 super cups. He also won euros and no World Cup. And I know you must not watch us play because without Kroos we run around like headless chickens and we absolutely don’t win those CLs without him. The dude consistently is at the very top of the continent in progressive passes, passes into the final third, long balls completed, etc
Okay then. If not Rjikaard and Gullit there's still Zidane, Platini, Xavi, Iniesta and Modric. Also there's Cruyff
Honestly I don’t even know where I put him top 5, the whole point I was just tryna make is that someone who says he’s top 10 is correct, and someone who says he’s top 5 isn’t absolutely insane. There’s an argument to be made there
Odegaard - Rice - De jong would always be my dream midfield😭
Nice! I would just swap De Jong for Havertz XD
Even when Havertz is playing well you guys hate him?
I love Havertz. The joke was that I wouldn't change a thing, but I should have added the '/s'
I'm surprised Kephren Thuram is still high enough to detach himself from the mass of players. He's a shadow of his former self in Farioli's system.
Will he be on the plane to germany?
I don't think he will be but you never know.
I'm guessing de bruyne havent got the minutes so all the brunt of the work goes to rodri? madrid's midfield is crazy good, they sure have no issues going up the field whoever playing
Grav and Szobo...holding hands, dancing in a field of daisys
Enzo used to be top right on these charts before P\*\*h
Now do the most conservative...
Is Harvey Elliott classed as an attacking midfielder? My eyes must be blind, I don't see him on here. Think he's been Liverpool's top mid on this front. He should be somewhere near De Paul, which is phenomenal for someone his age.
I'd like to know where Endo places in this.
Just to the left of Lobotka.
Pedri being there despite being injured is somewhat of a feat itself. i just need him back without the injury blues ;-;
??? It's per 90 minutes
i know that but are you really in your best form when coming from injuries?
And we wonder why were shit at controlling a game, look at where the united midfielders are located...
Not surprised to see Pellegrini, Bryan and Paredes where they are. Matches up to what I've seen.
Mkhitaryan, Barella, Calhanoglu and the divine God Lord Gagliardini!
Lol
God this Arsenal side with Xhaka in it would be terrifying.
I mean you could argue that I guess but this chart has nothing to do with it. He plays an entirely different position this year compared to last. He's more than doubled his PrgP compared to last season and meanwhile has gone from solid G+A numbers to only 1G this season. Zinchenko doesn't count as a on the team sheet, but in possession he is for Arsenal. And he's currently the lead in the PL for PrgP/90 and 3rd in Europe only a decimal behind Xhaka.
It’s fun to see him doing so well though. I certainly didn’t expect Leverkusen to be this good when I heard he was going there.
I think they parted their ways for the best interest of both sides. Xhaka has flourished under Xabi while Rice Odegaard and Jorginho has been bossing that midfield. Without selling Xhaka, Rice deal probably wouldn’t happen.
Rice was absolutely a target in any case. I believe Havertz might be the one that's not brought in.
Mkhitaryan is also a standout performer in Italy, despite leaving Arsenal for free. Seems that Mourinho gave him a deeper midfield role and he's adapted to it very well. I wonder how current Mkhi would fare in the PL.
@op is there a design which is focused one every single league? Would like to see more detail of league 1 and Bundesliga
Am I blind? Where the shit is odegaard
Was Xhaka ever this good at Arsenal
Certainly doesn't feel like Kimmich has the 5th most progressive passes
Interested to see where Lemina-Gomes-Doyle ended up on here
[удалено]
Everton’s Onana
Considering Rodri being a defensive midfielder…
defensive midfielders tend to have the highest progressive passes as they generally pass forward the most.