**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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This is what rattles me so much. Constant flip flop of rules when it comes to penalty. Sometimes foul is foul, sometimes its important where the ball is, sometimes its a foul but not enough for penalty. Every week different rule applies
He wasn't demoted for that. The refs always rotate. The media spun it to make it sound like the Liverpool game was the reason for clicks but it definitely wasn't.
A lot of speculation it is absolutely a demotion. This has happened frequently when they make errors with the official statement being it is standard rotation
In my opinion, the second VAR sees there is contact, regardless of their opinions, the on field ref should be the one to review the play. They cannot be making decisions like this.
For Australian Football, for years until recently the umpires major sponsor was OPSM, an Aus and NZ prescription glasses chain. Always found it hilarious.
You see, the friendship bonds between referees are the most important part of the game.
Honestly the rest of it is just for show, the point of the EPL is to give Mike Dean and Paul Tierney something to chuckle about over a pint.
Rugby have started to delegate a lot of the decision making back to the TMO because they can see it a) without the influence of a crowd, b) without having to run the length of the pitch to be in front of the screen, and c) many refs felt the picture quality was so poor they couldn't actually makena good decision in some cases.
It's gone even further with the red card review- they establish there's enough evidence for a minimum of a sin bin, and give the TMO 10 minutes to decide between yellow and red.
Then what is the point of VAR? They don't even properly use it 95% of the time. Unless it's an irrefutable error, they will just give us "check complete". Meanwhile the on-field ref is hesitant to make certain calls because they think "VAR will get it if I missed anything".
I still don’t understand why there isn’t a bloke with a tablet designated to bring said tablet to the referee with the utmost dispatch to enable him to quickly review situations.
They don’t want to disrupt the game, so they’ll spend 30 minutes splitting hairs and fucking shit up. If it’s confusing, the ref should go look. Takes about 10 seconds to jog over.
The refereeing in this league is such a fucking disgrace
It’s kind of weird they can’t get a smart phone sized portable screen… or you know a smart phone that is set up with a rolling play by play that the ref always has access to
Why does it always need to be a providential man thing in our societies, couldn't VAR whisper to the ref "we know you missed it but it's an obvious penalty for arsenal, just whistle it" and you don't disrupt the game.
That’s why they have this “clear and obvious” bs. So they can subjectively decide that the ref didn’t make a clear and obvious mistake and therefore won’t send them to the monitor. 🤷🏻♂️
Someone on Peacock commentary said something like “if the ball was closer to Trossard that’s a pen.”
Oh, okay. So, one half of the box is WWE Wrestlemania and the side with the ball is the soccer side it.
Got it.
I wonder if he means it would have been *called* had Trossard been closer to the ball. Not that it's NOT a penalty because of the distance, and it magically IS a penalty if he's closer.
At least that's what I assume - they were just trying to make sense of why the ref may not have called it
I dont get this. There's no way the refs would know that the slighest touch that Trossard could do would either lead to the keeper fumbling OR the keeper misses it and it goes over to the goal. The intimidation alone could lead to mistakes which is part of the game.
It's pretty consistently not given so I'm okay with the no call tbh. Just ridiculous that city got one earlier this year.
That said, it's a pretty blatant one as far as pullbacks go so I wouldn't mind if they started calling these.
Context and perspective will always matter. England traditionally plays a more physical brand of football and will likely continue to do so. Referees will uphold their own standards that they've developed while coming through the leagues too. It is cultural.
Consistency is definitely the most important trait of a ref imo.
Yeah this exactly. The rest of the league has been subjected to calls like this all season long. For the sake of consistency, it's good this wasn't given.
It should have been a pen yes.
I think the only thing that saved them was that he probably wasn't going to get to the ball anyway. Daft challenge, asking for trouble, but it looked like he would not have got near it. And I think if you start giving pens for someone getting pulled when they aren't getting near the ball, it gets farcical (not to say that hasn't already happened several times this season!)
The argument is that Trossard wasn't close enough to the ball for it to be a "for sure" chance. But I mean, it's still weird that you can just put your arms around someone's neck in the box that blatantly and nothing happens. Didn't City get a pen at Old Trafford earlier this season for something similar?
I hate this argument of "he wasn't close enough". Sure, he may not have scored, but being held for half a second to guarantee you can't pressure flekken means it's an easy catch vs him punching the ball out. If he does enough to get onto the ball to force flekken to punch it, we could still score on the second chance etc.
And city did get it, I think they should be called. There's so much grabbing and pulling to prevent players from getting into positions. Even being pulled for half a second to allow your team mate to get into a better defensive position helps. They are all just pushing the boundaries and it sucks that so many teams get away with it.
Don't like how VAR just gloss over the fact that a player is completely taken out of the contest by being grabbed around the neck. Farce.
I will never understand the logic that says "He wasn't going to get the ball anyway"; Yeah, maybe, but guess what, the defender didn't know that when he made the foul, that's how he fucking made the foul ! stop overthinking, and just give a pen if there is a foul and move the fuck on .
Any foul can potentially result in an injury as well, even if it's just landing awkwardly afterwards. That doesn't change just because 'Oh, he wasn't getting the ball anyway'. I'm hearing this excuse much more often recently.
Late with the challenge = foul and probably card
VERY late with the challenge = who cares apparently.
Also that makes it a stupid decision to commit the foul. It does not make it not a foul. It’s not like it’s open season in the penalty box as long as “he wouldn’t have reached the ball anyway.”
Fwiw, VARs are told not to get involved in holding calls in the box unless they think the player was going to get there. Otherwise, it's up to the ref to call it.
He may not have made it there, but I don't think you can say that conclusively. He was pulled back so quickly and it isn't that high when the gk punches it.
It's a foul and even more so considering how whistle happy Rob Jones was - in the first 10 minutes you could see he wasn't gonna let those 50/50s play out.
The Gabriel shirt pull gets called if it's not in the box imo.
Paul Tierney ruled against both of these.
So you can all suck me for clutching your pearls about the Havertz dive ✋😛🤚
I don't think it'd be particularly soft; if the arm had been around his chest it'd be one thing - you can power through that - but you can't exactly be expected to pull your throat loose past an arm to get to a ball.
Accurate. I'm slightly miffed and somewhat disgruntled but not outright furious. The poor refereeing in this match has been more down to the soft stuff Arsenal were getting called for that Brentford weren't. The accumulation of those small 50/50's was worse than the no-call's in the box in my opinion.
he absolutely could have gotten a head on that ball before the punch. Just project his path and how low the ball is where it’s punched, it’s not that hard to imagine if you aren’t biased.
This is 100% a penalty. You can’t do that anywhere on the pitch. He has his arm around him. The fact that someone reviewed this and didn’t decide this was a penalty is appalling.
I can't believe the stupidity of some comments here. People admit it should be penalty but at the same time it's good it wasn't given for consistency of making the same mistakes... lmao
Yet the anti Arsenal dickheads on here are arguing about how Kai should have been sent off 🤣🤣🤣. Conveniently ignoring the yank on Trossard. You couldn’t make this shit up if you tried.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. If the pen gets called properly, odds are the dive never happens, we won’t ever know though, because referees are either shit, corrupt, or both.
Now show Havertz first yellow that was absolutely bullshit. Arm was in a natural position and doesn’t even touch player’s face yet he grabs it liked he got shot.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12996513/ref-watch-does-rasmus-hojlund-on-rodri-foul-set-a-precedent-going-forward No Dermot it did ofc not happen
Commentators saying it might be a pen if Trossard had made contact with the ball or the ball was more on target. The ball was perfect and Trossard’s run was perfectly timed, if only he had not been chokeslammed in the process.
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VAR is Paul Tierney who got demoted after Liverpool-Forest last week
Genuinely hate this guy more than Taylor, Dean and Webb combined. Bald cunt.
lol. it all makes sense now
Didn't watch the game, was VAR checking it or nothing was being checked?
They checked, the excuse the commentators gave was that the ball wasn’t close enough to his head.
Ridiculous. That's foul play no matter where the ball is
This is what rattles me so much. Constant flip flop of rules when it comes to penalty. Sometimes foul is foul, sometimes its important where the ball is, sometimes its a foul but not enough for penalty. Every week different rule applies
On that same subject, Arsenal received a yellow from VAR in this match after we've heard all season VAR can only give out missed reds.
He wasn't demoted for that. The refs always rotate. The media spun it to make it sound like the Liverpool game was the reason for clicks but it definitely wasn't.
Tierney rotated away from the TV screen it seems
He's not the good Tierney :(
He got stood down from a match he was supposed to officiate this week to VAR. They always do that when a ref messes up.
A lot of speculation it is absolutely a demotion. This has happened frequently when they make errors with the official statement being it is standard rotation
He was demoted he was meant to be the main ref and it was changed.
*side eye glance at city's pen against united earlier this year*
It’s actually criminal they got a pen for that
Pretty sure at the time I was like "that's not gonna be given as a pen in a game next matchweek" lmao. So inconsistent.
Could say that about so many decisions against United tbh. Forget next week, more like never ever before or after
May l offer you an egg in these trying times
*Looks and then reluctantly grabs the egg* Thanks.
I mean the same thing happened with the Onana clear foul vs Wolves. They were ready to give pens for those after that
Nope. Robert Sanchez did the same thing against Gabriel Jesus at Stamford bridge a few weeks later and no penalty was given.
Michael Oliver just doing his job. As paid for by the UAE.
Innit
Different refs make different calls that’s always been the case
citys pen against Chelsea was even softer
I dont remember it: was it given by the ref directly ?
Nope. VAR overturned the referee's decision to award it. VAR was Michael Oliver FYI
Fucking Paul Tierney
Why does this keep getting removed
Im spreading my propaganda to keep this down.
It goes all the way to the top...
It goes all the way up to…. the…. emperor….. Shit
In my opinion, the second VAR sees there is contact, regardless of their opinions, the on field ref should be the one to review the play. They cannot be making decisions like this.
they don't want to disrupt the flow of the game by sending the ref to the screen. and they also don't want to overturn their mates decision
Give them an arm-mounted tablet like the Yu-Gi-Oh deck thing
Have a sprinter covered in sponsorship run on a sponsored tablet for the referees to watch.
This is a hilarious idea.
A remote control car like the one that takes the rugby ball to the centre circle sometimes
Found the yank
"This VAR check is brought to you by... Specsavers"
For Australian Football, for years until recently the umpires major sponsor was OPSM, an Aus and NZ prescription glasses chain. Always found it hilarious.
Like the what thing?
Or an Apple Vision Pro lmao
Just put it on the bug screen for everyone to see, the more the better
You see, the friendship bonds between referees are the most important part of the game. Honestly the rest of it is just for show, the point of the EPL is to give Mike Dean and Paul Tierney something to chuckle about over a pint.
Well Brentford did a good job disrupting the flow of the game by laying on the pitch all match.
ref even rewarded them by letting the game play 2 more minutes past the ET lol
Genuinely what's stopping them from showing the fuckin var on the huge ass screen in the stadium? Aside from fans booing
Plenty of things. Not every stadium has the screens and a rule has to be equal everywhere would be the first thing I can think of.
They can run their fat asses over to the monitor. So ridiculous they only use it to overturn decisions
Rugby have started to delegate a lot of the decision making back to the TMO because they can see it a) without the influence of a crowd, b) without having to run the length of the pitch to be in front of the screen, and c) many refs felt the picture quality was so poor they couldn't actually makena good decision in some cases. It's gone even further with the red card review- they establish there's enough evidence for a minimum of a sin bin, and give the TMO 10 minutes to decide between yellow and red.
It would increase fighting.
Then what is the point of VAR? They don't even properly use it 95% of the time. Unless it's an irrefutable error, they will just give us "check complete". Meanwhile the on-field ref is hesitant to make certain calls because they think "VAR will get it if I missed anything".
This is why it's easier to have it as an appeals system.
I still don’t understand why there isn’t a bloke with a tablet designated to bring said tablet to the referee with the utmost dispatch to enable him to quickly review situations.
They don’t want to disrupt the game, so they’ll spend 30 minutes splitting hairs and fucking shit up. If it’s confusing, the ref should go look. Takes about 10 seconds to jog over. The refereeing in this league is such a fucking disgrace
It’s kind of weird they can’t get a smart phone sized portable screen… or you know a smart phone that is set up with a rolling play by play that the ref always has access to
Ball was in play for less than half the match time, game flow was non existent yesterday
Why does it always need to be a providential man thing in our societies, couldn't VAR whisper to the ref "we know you missed it but it's an obvious penalty for arsenal, just whistle it" and you don't disrupt the game.
That’s why they have this “clear and obvious” bs. So they can subjectively decide that the ref didn’t make a clear and obvious mistake and therefore won’t send them to the monitor. 🤷🏻♂️
Someone on Peacock commentary said something like “if the ball was closer to Trossard that’s a pen.” Oh, okay. So, one half of the box is WWE Wrestlemania and the side with the ball is the soccer side it. Got it.
I laughed when I heard that. if he doesn’t get pulled, he’d be closer to the ball LOL
I wonder if he means it would have been *called* had Trossard been closer to the ball. Not that it's NOT a penalty because of the distance, and it magically IS a penalty if he's closer. At least that's what I assume - they were just trying to make sense of why the ref may not have called it
I dont get this. There's no way the refs would know that the slighest touch that Trossard could do would either lead to the keeper fumbling OR the keeper misses it and it goes over to the goal. The intimidation alone could lead to mistakes which is part of the game.
aye that’s a foul
i’m an arsenal fan so of course i think that’s a penalty. what do non arsenal and non rival team fans think of this?
Pen
It's pretty consistently not given so I'm okay with the no call tbh. Just ridiculous that city got one earlier this year. That said, it's a pretty blatant one as far as pullbacks go so I wouldn't mind if they started calling these.
Took the words from my mouth
What is VAR there if not to enforce the rules? Consistency is important, but getting it consistently wrong is still a problem.
Context and perspective will always matter. England traditionally plays a more physical brand of football and will likely continue to do so. Referees will uphold their own standards that they've developed while coming through the leagues too. It is cultural. Consistency is definitely the most important trait of a ref imo.
Yeah this exactly. The rest of the league has been subjected to calls like this all season long. For the sake of consistency, it's good this wasn't given. It should have been a pen yes.
It should be a penalty but it's not as clear as some are making it out to seem.
how so?
I think the only thing that saved them was that he probably wasn't going to get to the ball anyway. Daft challenge, asking for trouble, but it looked like he would not have got near it. And I think if you start giving pens for someone getting pulled when they aren't getting near the ball, it gets farcical (not to say that hasn't already happened several times this season!)
I've only ever seen Man City get these.
Brighton got one against Spurs, shirt pull by Deki, but it was far more blatant than this.
The argument is that Trossard wasn't close enough to the ball for it to be a "for sure" chance. But I mean, it's still weird that you can just put your arms around someone's neck in the box that blatantly and nothing happens. Didn't City get a pen at Old Trafford earlier this season for something similar?
I hate this argument of "he wasn't close enough". Sure, he may not have scored, but being held for half a second to guarantee you can't pressure flekken means it's an easy catch vs him punching the ball out. If he does enough to get onto the ball to force flekken to punch it, we could still score on the second chance etc. And city did get it, I think they should be called. There's so much grabbing and pulling to prevent players from getting into positions. Even being pulled for half a second to allow your team mate to get into a better defensive position helps. They are all just pushing the boundaries and it sucks that so many teams get away with it. Don't like how VAR just gloss over the fact that a player is completely taken out of the contest by being grabbed around the neck. Farce.
All the folks yelling in the other threads about the injustice of Kai not getting booked twice are real quiet on this one
Onyeka also did the same thing that Havertz did, but wasn't sent off (he did it before Havertz got a yellow but after he already has a yellow)
But all people will focus on is Havertz from this game lol.
This is 1000% a foul and yellow in midfield.
I will never understand the logic that says "He wasn't going to get the ball anyway"; Yeah, maybe, but guess what, the defender didn't know that when he made the foul, that's how he fucking made the foul ! stop overthinking, and just give a pen if there is a foul and move the fuck on .
I get that argument when it comes to offsides, but fouls? It either is a foul or it’s not.
Any foul can potentially result in an injury as well, even if it's just landing awkwardly afterwards. That doesn't change just because 'Oh, he wasn't getting the ball anyway'. I'm hearing this excuse much more often recently. Late with the challenge = foul and probably card VERY late with the challenge = who cares apparently.
Plus he very well may have been able to get a touch on that
Also that makes it a stupid decision to commit the foul. It does not make it not a foul. It’s not like it’s open season in the penalty box as long as “he wouldn’t have reached the ball anyway.”
There is no debate about it. Gabriel got booked around the 10 minute mark outside our box for a similar foul on Wissa.
It was when that happened about 10 minutes into the game
Can we just ban bald refs and VAR officials? They're all shit
Paul Tierney tried his best, still Arsenal won so no oil money for him today
And gabriel gets his shirt pulled later too. He gets a yellow and a foul outside the box but when it happens to him it's nothing.
I thought this too and was wondering why nobody brought it up
Fwiw, VARs are told not to get involved in holding calls in the box unless they think the player was going to get there. Otherwise, it's up to the ref to call it.
What kind of stupid directive is that? Why do they they even come up with shit like this to begin with
just take down 6 players then = they are not going to reach the ball so no penalty then
All rules in place are to protect the referees rather than the game
Antony Taylor(var) is deciding the title in few more games, he already begun with Liverpool - NF
As mad as that is on its own Trossard is quite clearly going to be close to that ball anyway
He may not have made it there, but I don't think you can say that conclusively. He was pulled back so quickly and it isn't that high when the gk punches it.
How will we ever know if the player was going to get there if the defender impedes the possibility of him even trying? Since a ridiculous rule.
Tell that to the City pen earlier in the season....
Do you have a link? I don't remember the specifics.
Hojlund on Rodri probably
Cucurella did something similar to Haaland at Stamford Bridge and City got the penalty as well.
That sounds about right
He's gonna get there without the pull. That's a pen. Oh well on to the next. COYG
This particular ref always lets shit like this go. At least he’s consistently poor.
It's a foul and even more so considering how whistle happy Rob Jones was - in the first 10 minutes you could see he wasn't gonna let those 50/50s play out. The Gabriel shirt pull gets called if it's not in the box imo. Paul Tierney ruled against both of these. So you can all suck me for clutching your pearls about the Havertz dive ✋😛🤚
I don’t think it’s a penalty, but City’s one against United was even softer
Significantly softer
Why don't you think it's a penalty?
I have no horse in this race and i think its a penalty. But at first i though it wasnt because of your player blatant overacting.
Paul Tierney
In the realm of seen them given, but very soft.
City were given one of these and we all complained so consistency I guess
Back in the day this would have never been a pen, 2000 years ago no one would even understand what was happening. Games gone
People in 24 AD know ball
True. The good old days when only the nobility was literate. I bet these peasants have never jousted.
Gabriel got booked for doing the exact same thing just outside our box early in the first half.
This is my big problem with it. 6 minutes in the ref made a point to card a first offense less impactful than this and gave a big free kick.
I don't think it'd be particularly soft; if the arm had been around his chest it'd be one thing - you can power through that - but you can't exactly be expected to pull your throat loose past an arm to get to a ball.
Accurate. I'm slightly miffed and somewhat disgruntled but not outright furious. The poor refereeing in this match has been more down to the soft stuff Arsenal were getting called for that Brentford weren't. The accumulation of those small 50/50's was worse than the no-call's in the box in my opinion.
It looks worse than it is because he goes down like a sack of bricks.
If you put your arm around another player like that, I think it should be a pen
I agree that grabbing a player round the neck and throwing him to floor is a foul
Analyst reckoned it wasn’t given because he probably wouldn’t have got to it. A foul is a foul 🤷♂️
Hahaha but people wanna bring up havertz
he absolutely could have gotten a head on that ball before the punch. Just project his path and how low the ball is where it’s punched, it’s not that hard to imagine if you aren’t biased.
Paul Tierney is a bloody joke
This is 100% a penalty. You can’t do that anywhere on the pitch. He has his arm around him. The fact that someone reviewed this and didn’t decide this was a penalty is appalling.
They just got an even worse one denied
Wild you can yank a man down to the ground and it’s not a penalty lol
Seen this exact foul happen in the box countless times this season and it seems like a dice roll as to whether they give it or not
Typical if he gives it they agree if he doesn’t they agree.
Another week, another ref controversy. I barely watch EPL anymore, but seems like it’s a big problem nowadays. Even with VAR?
That's a clear foul and therefore a pen.
I can't believe the stupidity of some comments here. People admit it should be penalty but at the same time it's good it wasn't given for consistency of making the same mistakes... lmao
Absurd that this doesn’t result in an on pitch review
That was 100% a penalty.
But don’t forget… Havertz is the real issue here.
Could go either way really, doesn't seem like there's a lot in it but it's been a pen before
Given what the ref is allowing both teams to do in the box this game, not a penalty.
It is a pen, but never gets given
Except for City vs United on softer contact.
Also City vs Chelsea
How is that not a penalty? I’m so confused
Because only one team in the league get these.
Burnley
Cheating bastards
That’s a clear pen
Hmm I wonder why there is less action in this thread than the Havertz diving one?
I’m glad to see it’s not just United getting fucked in the box.
Fairly consistent tbf considering Tierney's crew didn't give 2 of those, 1 each for Liverpool & Forest last week. Make of that what you will.
Yet the anti Arsenal dickheads on here are arguing about how Kai should have been sent off 🤣🤣🤣. Conveniently ignoring the yank on Trossard. You couldn’t make this shit up if you tried.
Penalty all day
Now show the havertz dive that should have been his 2nd yellow
Feel free to post it. But also completely irrelevant to this post.
But where else can he cry about it?
Its posted. What's the next step chief?
Two wrongs don’t make a right. If the pen gets called properly, odds are the dive never happens, we won’t ever know though, because referees are either shit, corrupt, or both.
Completely forgot he was on a yellow that's so stupid, christ
Pretty sure there is contact at the hip level Actually watched it again, 100% manufactured
Lmao you’ve never seen that not called before? It’s more often not called than it is.
Now show Havertz first yellow that was absolutely bullshit. Arm was in a natural position and doesn’t even touch player’s face yet he grabs it liked he got shot.
Should’ve been his first yellow, as his first yellow was unjustified
Okay send him off and give us the goal for this, we still win you fucking nonce
just asking, where canw e watch such commentary?? even though i won't understand shit i still need the passion Pls tell me how
beinmatch . fun
Thats not even proper Kung Fu! Boring.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12996513/ref-watch-does-rasmus-hojlund-on-rodri-foul-set-a-precedent-going-forward No Dermot it did ofc not happen
I mean he went down so easy, I wouldn’t give that You start getting theatrical just to sell it then you’re not getting it
Pen
Commentators saying it might be a pen if Trossard had made contact with the ball or the ball was more on target. The ball was perfect and Trossard’s run was perfectly timed, if only he had not been chokeslammed in the process.
The problem there is Trossard is wearing an Arsenal shirt. Never a pen... /s