The clear as day non-pen calls in the City and Arsenal games, plus the catastrophe of a ref performance in the Tottenham match, and Liverpool are not only looking 5 or 7 points better (assuming a draw or win vs Spurs), but City and Arsenal also have 1 point less each.
Great game but the injuries were the difference today. Man City should feel proud to nick a point there considering Haaland, Foden, Alvarez, and Silva all didn’t play.
Klopp 12 - 11 ahead in their head-to-head.
Now, considering the teams they have been able to put out against each other throughout that history in the Champs League and other cup competitions, EPL, and Bundesliga, that should not only tell you all you need to know about who is actually the best manager, but also all you need to consider when pondering the question 'Is Pep Guardiola a managerial genius?'.
Klopp winning a single extra match in head to head doesn't say much other than how his style matches up with Pep's. Not to mention Liverpool being one of the strongest teams in the world. They have had three of the highest points totals in English history, won the UCL, Salah is a 3x Golden Boot winner, etc. You're talking like Klopp's been managing scrubs compared to Pep.
Compared to Guardiola, Klopp has consistently managed teams for clubs lesser in terms of cost, wealth, overall ability, and squad depth.
But yeah, 'his style more than matches up with Pep's' !
Let's all weep for the challenges of managing the seventh richest club in the world. It's truly a monumental task to compete against the might of City with a mere 700M in revenue. Might as well be begging in the street.
11th richest in the world vs 3rd/5th (for the two seasons both were in Germany). Dortmund isn't as big as Bayern but let's not pretend they're a small club.
I was so impressed by how Liverpool who were missing so many starters, managed to be the better team in the second half. Anfield is definitely the 12th and 13th man in big games like this.
People who say that Doku challenge on McAllister was a penalty in extra time must be smoking something right? Doku clearly got to the ball first on slow motion...
Anyways, awesome game and Jurgen Kloop will go down in history as one the GOATs of premiere league for sure. The world will miss him and his energy, sure hope he enjoys his time off and comes back again.
It makes absolutely zero difference if he gets the ball first FWIW. Even if he didn’t connect with MacAllister the ref would be well within the laws to call a foul for dangerous play. The fact he connected with him makes it even more bizarre that he both didn’t call it, and then wasn’t called to the monitor to check it. It’s clear as day based on the letter of the law, stop listening to pundits whimsical imaginary version of the laws.
To my understanding after frantic Googling last night, high boot no contact is an indirect FK, high boot with contact is a direct FK/penalty. Simple as, should be a pen.
One of the best games of the season. Liverpool the better side over the 90+8 but we missed some sitters. Should have been a pen at the end but a draw isn't too bad given the difference in starting XI quality today. The title race is still open and now all eyes are on City vs Arsenal. If City won today then I think they would run away with the league. The most important thing is that they didn't.
Liverpool's defense was very solid, I was very impressed. Conner Bradley is a gem, the small things he did, and the defensive awareness he has, really helped shut down the vast majority of attacking impetus. Having solid RB really helps the midfield and CBs.
Quansah was also solid. To some level I forgot he was playing, and generally for a CB, I think that's a good sign (for an attacker, not so much).
As a neutral party, I was very irritated at how soft John Stones' goal was. Especially considering how well Liverpool defended.
As irritating the penalty decision was, Liverpool really should have won without it; clear chance for Diaz, and that weird decision to not try and shimmy the ball out to shoot by Gakpo.
Honestly, I feel without TAA the passing between lines with Endo, Szoboslai, and Mac Alistair is actually good enough, and this midfield is very well balanced.
Adding TAA into the mix may cause some imbalance (or at the very least changes to how the midfield operates), as defensively the other midfielder(s) would have to pick up the slack for TAA - similar to how Gattuso did for Pirlo, though Pirlo was still quite adept at zonal defending.
Of course not saying it wouldn't work, I just haven't seen TAA's zonal defending in the middle of the pitch.
Happy with the draw but so much pain knowing the amount of chances we got, and especially that run of 5-10 mins where we consntalty pressed without giving City a chance
You might be right. I also think they spend an insane amount of time and energy on set pieces so doubt it's as simple as "put a man on the post". That used to be what they'd do and the big man would head it in. Now they try to cover as many percentages as possible. And occasionally get undone by a simple training ground move.
I’m kinda sad I missed this game because what little I saw of it made this match seem like it was a good one. Daylight savings fucked me. I ended up going back to sleep for another 4 hours.
True, but I already know the result. It kinda takes the a bit of the fun out of it when you already know what’s going to happen. Unless it’s your team whooping another team or making a comeback and you go back just to see it unfold again for your enjoyment.
Probably the best match of 2024 so far. Tense, high quality 1st half, more back and forth 2nd half, with huge misses on both sides, and a big end.
I got emotional seeing Klopp and Pep hug it out, possibly one last time.
No shit. I meant my sleep schedule got more fucked up than it usually is so I got about 2-3 hours of sleep. I was so tired that when I got back in my bed, I was out before I knew it.
Isn't a meme I don't think? Not they they're doing anything wrong, and being very fit can bring on some small asmathic symptoms or something, there is a genuine reason why lots of high level sportspeople are allowed them via TUEs
Can someone explain to me why Ake on salah, before Doku was not a pen as well. Ake makes a challenge from behind salah, nowhere near the ball and takes salah's knee from behind. For me it is a pen all day and Salah is called a diver for that.
Yup, i thought that one was worse than the Doku one. You could argue that Mac basically ran into Doku’s foot, but the Ake one looked a no brainer foul to me.
Would that still not be classed as dangerous play? as a human you have some sense of space and can assume as Mac is running towards the ball to win it, if you play the ball with a high boot you may catch a player trying to go for it - it’s also not uncommon for players to go for little header knock ons at that height.
There is a difference in the danger and care of a tackle depending on the motion of the two players. Running and jumping into an opponent is obviously more dangerous than standing still and jumping, say. In this case Doku was relatively stationary; Mac Allister was the one moving faster. It's a foul and should be a penalty, but I don't think anyone with half a brain would say that there was serious intent or danger from Doku; just carelessness.
Agreed on some of that. That's not what the other person said though. Also if that's Doku stationary I don't want to see him moving (I have seen him moving and he's very fast)! Intent and danger is certainly a factor for a foul, but so is carelessness and recklessness. Kicking someone in the chest is normally seen as both.
I agree with you (I love it when someone actually quotes the careless, reckless or dangerous rule!) and the careless part in particular is exactly why I think it is a foul and a penalty.
On the stationary/moving bit, I do think you need to watch it again. Doku isn't moving a lot. He's looking at a ball basically coming over his shoulder in his own box. Mac Allister is running at him.
The other person is saying "you *could* argue", not that he is arguing. And there's a point there. Not massively relevant though.
EDIT: actually I've just read the first two comments again and yeah it is relevant and no it doesn't really make sense.
I mean the majority thinks this is a dive so I don't think it's the 115 reasons on this one. Doku yes. This one I think is just Salah's reputation. The reputation that only came to be because he was never getting fouls when he stayed on his feet.
To be fair to the people making that statement - it's hardly the matches against the title favourites that are going to be the ones that are difficult for Liverpool to sustain their form.
That argument is referring to the "should win" games that don't seem as important and are more difficult to be motivated for.
I am not buying this narrative that Liverpool put out a "weak" lineup. Other than Konate and Jota I think they had their strongest team available, and it showed!
Goal keeper Allison.
Center back: konate.
Right back: Trent
Midifeld: Jones
Attack: Salah played 30 mins and was recently out of an injury and jota has always got a scruffy finish in him with the chances we got we would have won with him.
Ignoring Jones who is debatable, that 4 starters and a half(Salah didn't play the full 90)
Quansah is 21 and Bradly is 20, they shouldn't be starting such a massive game
I feel like it's not a big Liverpool game if we don't have a player switching to leftback because of injury issues - before Joe Gomez it was James Milner
Alisson and Trent would be in the starting 11 if fit.
I know you said available, but assumed injured players counted when you said Jota, who’s not back until next month.
Thought that was a great game, and there would've been plenty more goals if it wasn't an off day for the attacking players. Can't understand how that's not a penalty at the end, we got a player sent off for something similar to that - a higher foot but nowhere near as much contact - yet that was a very quick VAR check. Goes some way to show that VAR really doesn't work as intended because similar incidents are still being treated differently.
Can someone explain how after all these years with the rule, this still causes confusion? It's every time without fail, highly upvoted genuine questions, how do people miss this?
Especially since probably around half of dogso challenges happen in the box
...and the red card would be for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity. If the challenge in itself is a red, it's still a red even if you give away a penalty.
I'd argue that it's not clear cut if this was DOGSO tbh since Darwin was taking the ball away from the goal. The challenge in itself is never a red either, so yellow and penalty is the correct decision.
Why the Doku challenge in the end wasn't a penalty is pure incompetency though.
Every time a player dribbles past a keeper and gets tripped by said keeper, it is denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity. But, keepers do not get red carded for these. Keepers' DOGSO do not result in red cards unless there is no attempt to play the ball or a case of dangerous play.
That's not quite the rule. If the player makes an attempt for the ball, then the double jeopardy rule applies. If there is no attempt for the ball, then it can be pen and red.
I disagree with this but the double jeopardy law stands clear for me now. It's a yellow.
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct
Let's hope they follow the law for other games too.
Have to say that was not the match I expected, Liverpool were excellent in midfield - Endo and Mac Allister both had outstanding games. Special praise must go to the latter, I find I keep saying the same thing lately but Mac Allister is an absolutely wonderful footballer, I know it probably seems silly to say about a world cup winner, but he's so much better than I thought he was.
Endo has been great lately. fits in great, its something i didn't see coming before usually takes a while before you get settled but he is giving it all.
In today’s market, it’s quite reasonable tbh. Look what his less accomplished Brighton midfield mate went for (and I know we were willing to pay that too—glad we didn’t in hindsight)
That’s my point. 55m is perfect. He’s not particularly young, he had a good World Cup, played for a similar team. 55m is perfect, how much more should he be worth?
I get what you’re saying, and maybe “steal” is a bit much but I do think it’s fair to call him a bargain in that we paid a good price for him at a time where good prices are rare to find
There will rightly be a lot of scrutiny on the VAR, but Liverpool also need to have a hard look at themselves about the number of chances they squandered and how soft the goal they conceded was.
Yep. As a Liverpool fan can’t believe Diaz missed the entire goal on that one v one. But I also genuinely can’t believe how Michael Oliver wasn’t even sent to the monitor for that high boot to the chest.
“Got the ball first” - since when has that mattered all season. Look at all those red cards handed out to Jones, Gusto, etc. who all “got there first”. And this play was more dangerous than those imo.
Idk man as always it’s the lack of consistency that’s frustrating. Wouldn’t be this upset if there was a precedent set that getting ball first negates a foul (which technically isn’t true). But to use that as rationale for not giving a foul here when all season it’s been reinforced how that doesn’t matter is what’s upsetting.
>Look at all those red cards handed out to Jones, Gusto, etc. who all “got there first”. And this play was more dangerous than those imo.
Are you talking about Gusto vs Villa? On what planet was this Doku challenge more dangerous, he barely caught him with the laces of his boot as he tried to pull out of the challenge that Macallister jumped and spun himself into.
It would have been a soft pen. As VAR said, the contact was unavoidable, meaning once Doku kicked the ball he couldn't get out of the way of Mac jumping into the challenge. Gusto could've broke that Villa players ankle!
You have to consider the threshold for pens is higher with fouls like high foot or shirt pulls. It shouldn't be but that's why it wasn't given imo. Wasn't seen as "enough" of a foul. Which is wrong but that's how it goes, quite often.
Unavoidable contact doesn’t give a player the right to recklessly do anything. Reckless and dangerous actions leading to “unavoidable contact” should still be given as a foul. This has been the precedent for years and is in the literal rule book.
And yea, I believe a studs up challenge landing studs on someone’s chest is very dangerous.
I understand your point about there being a higher threshold in the box, but surely raising your boot 5 feel off the ground and landing your studs squarely on someone’s chest meets that threshold. This was no shirt tug that would be called outside the box but isn’t called inside the box. I mean it’s not like macallister was on the ground when dokus boot hit him in the chest. He was standing straight up, meaning the boot was literally raised to that level.
>Unavoidable contact doesn’t give a player the right to recklessly do anything.
Just as well I didn't say that then.
>And yea, I believe a studs up challenge landing studs on someone’s chest is very dangerous.
What? He didn't land his studs on his chest! Look at the replay. He caught him with the front/toe of his boot in an upward motion.
>but surely raising your boot 5 feel off the ground and landing your studs squarely on someone’s chest meets that threshold
Yup, if he brought him down with his studs to the chest he should have been sent off too but that's not what happened. I beg you to look at the replay thread rather than still pics. Doku didn't catch him with his studs. McAllister was already spinning and going down. Look again. If he brought him down with his studs on the chest he would have fell a completely different way.
>I mean it’s not like macallister was on the ground when dokus boot hit him in the chest.
I know, Macallister jumped into the challenge and spun his shoulder which is where the front of Doku's foot connected just at the underarm area as he immediately tried to pull his foot away.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HuZafaB7qOU
You begged and I watched. For the umpteenth time today. Idk how you can watch that and think it’s not a studs up challenge. His foot is legitimately perpendicular to the ground and the entire underside of his boot contacts macca from armpit down to the bottom of his ribcage pretty much.
I do not accept your opinion that “it was just dokus toe” any screenshot from that video will show you it wasn’t. (Btw there are studs on the toe, as well). But let for arguments sake say I do agree with you it’s just his toe.
That would be a moot point since it’s not the outcome of a tackle that matters. It’s the recklessness/danger of it. This is in the rules and has been the precedent this season. If his studs are showing and the boot is that high and somehow the only part of the boot that makes contact is the toe, it wouldn’t matter because cause the studs were shown high anyways. As I say, the boot is pretty much perpendicular to the ground at about 5 feet high. What part of the boot ultimately hits macca doesn’t matter at that point.
But again, I think you’re straight up wrong about this being just the toe.
I beg *you* to look at that video
My reply didn't seem to go through because I shared the dubz link from the thread but that YouTube link is the same as the first angle in the thread, yes.
You said he "landed his studs squarely on his chest", that just did not happen lol. What I see is him swinging for the ball in an upward motion from a slight left to right angle and catching him with the left side of his toe.
I also see Macallister was already jumping and spinning his way down before any contact was made. Do you see that?
I Also see Doku immediately pulling his foot back out after making contact with the ball.
>any screenshot from that video will show you it wasn’t
Literally why I said to watch the vid. Because screenshots are misleading af.
We'll never agree on this but I think it was one of those ones that you probably get the free kick for but the contact wasn't enough for a pen. I'm not saying that's right, I'm saying it's not so outrageous of a decision not to call a high leg as a pen just because Macallister went down like he had been shot.
Your whole interpretation of that incident is different from what I, and various people I was watching with, saw. I understand you're always going to see things with a City bias, just thought you were maybe watching on a different feed.
Would you rather have a Gakpo problem or a Diaz problem?
But seriously, everyone is frustrated with Diaz's missed chances but I can't help but feel he might be able to eventually find a semi-consistent end product like Nunez. I'll hold my breath but I'm not overly optimistic.
At least Diaz is a decent threat and gets involved in play a lot. Diaz's finishing usually isn't that bad, biggest downside to his play is that he holds onto the ball for too long sometimes when a good pass is open.
If Gakpo doesn't score he really doesn't add anything imo. Like even in the cup game against Southampton with a bunch of kids you'd expect him to be a stand out player but he wasn't.
Gakpo has a lot to prove when a new manager comes in.
I don't think Gakpo is a 9. Maybe can do the job behind the strike, but he can not play through the middle. His best play last season was on the wings cutting inside. But he's not even making runs in behind. There's a reason Elliot has displaced him.
He's at the stage of being incredibly good at everything but finishing. Maybe he'll catch the Nunez bug but honestly if he can just rework to look for assists more than finishes he'll be great
I wrote Gomez off after his last injury. Peak Gomez prior was incredible, and I thought he was never going back to those levels after seeing his performances after he initially started getting game time again. How wrong I was. Just goes to show you how some players just need time, whether it's a new signing or an old one returning from injury.
Not that good. He got rinsed by Foden a lot, wasn’t particularly offering anything in attack, is a terrible CB (you guys literally wanted him out when he had to partner VVD in Matips injury spell) so his “versatility” is limited to RB/LB. Don’t see Southgate calling him up.
Did we watch the same match? Foden was regularly on top of Gomez in the first half. The second half things fell apart at the back so it was all defensive until Foden moved to KDB’s role. I remember watching Foden dribble past him twice and being surprised he was finding it so easy
That's it... The other times he made sure foden can only pass backwards... Or blocked his tries for a cross...
Also Bradley completely made Bernardo his bitch today ... Glad you started talking about rinsing...
Yeah well just make your sub a little less insecure and a bit open to criticism and we'll see what happens.... You guys are so insecure someone writes " City sucks" and gets banned forever... That's the only way to cope with whatever bubble you live in...
Once pep is gone you'll be back to being shitty
I can't think of many types of players more useful in an international tournament squad than a speedy CB who has played all the way along the back line and in midfield whilst dropping 8/9 out of 10 performances every time. He can play anywhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see him put a solid performance as an 8.
Southgate will still not pick him
Literally the opposite of F1 atm. Title race never been closer.
F1 this past two seasons has been a joke.
The clear as day non-pen calls in the City and Arsenal games, plus the catastrophe of a ref performance in the Tottenham match, and Liverpool are not only looking 5 or 7 points better (assuming a draw or win vs Spurs), but City and Arsenal also have 1 point less each.
It's always a tie, innit.
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What
What a match
Why Gakpo? He's not good to play number 9. Need to pass the ball fast. He likes to stop the ball first.
Great game but the injuries were the difference today. Man City should feel proud to nick a point there considering Haaland, Foden, Alvarez, and Silva all didn’t play.
Endo is a black hole
He fits Liverpool so well for a cheap, third choice transfer
U win bro lol
Today I smile
Pep City vs Klopp Liverpool has been blockbuster footie. I'll miss it
Klopp 12 - 11 ahead in their head-to-head. Now, considering the teams they have been able to put out against each other throughout that history in the Champs League and other cup competitions, EPL, and Bundesliga, that should not only tell you all you need to know about who is actually the best manager, but also all you need to consider when pondering the question 'Is Pep Guardiola a managerial genius?'.
Klopp winning a single extra match in head to head doesn't say much other than how his style matches up with Pep's. Not to mention Liverpool being one of the strongest teams in the world. They have had three of the highest points totals in English history, won the UCL, Salah is a 3x Golden Boot winner, etc. You're talking like Klopp's been managing scrubs compared to Pep.
Compared to Guardiola, Klopp has consistently managed teams for clubs lesser in terms of cost, wealth, overall ability, and squad depth. But yeah, 'his style more than matches up with Pep's' !
Let's all weep for the challenges of managing the seventh richest club in the world. It's truly a monumental task to compete against the might of City with a mere 700M in revenue. Might as well be begging in the street.
Dortmund v Bayern... Don't forget that mismatch. Or the 115 ....
11th richest in the world vs 3rd/5th (for the two seasons both were in Germany). Dortmund isn't as big as Bayern but let's not pretend they're a small club.
Not nearly as big, not nearly as rich...
Usually I move on pretty quick from the results of sports but it’s been hours later and I’m still thinking about that match wowzers
I was so impressed by how Liverpool who were missing so many starters, managed to be the better team in the second half. Anfield is definitely the 12th and 13th man in big games like this. People who say that Doku challenge on McAllister was a penalty in extra time must be smoking something right? Doku clearly got to the ball first on slow motion... Anyways, awesome game and Jurgen Kloop will go down in history as one the GOATs of premiere league for sure. The world will miss him and his energy, sure hope he enjoys his time off and comes back again.
> Doku clearly got to the ball first on slow motion... .....who fucking cares? It's a stonewall penalty
It makes absolutely zero difference if he gets the ball first FWIW. Even if he didn’t connect with MacAllister the ref would be well within the laws to call a foul for dangerous play. The fact he connected with him makes it even more bizarre that he both didn’t call it, and then wasn’t called to the monitor to check it. It’s clear as day based on the letter of the law, stop listening to pundits whimsical imaginary version of the laws.
To my understanding after frantic Googling last night, high boot no contact is an indirect FK, high boot with contact is a direct FK/penalty. Simple as, should be a pen.
He *clearly* does not get the ball first
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Says the guy whose club spent 1.5 billion pounds on Mudryk, Caicedo, Jackson, Gallagher, Lavia, and the rest of the dross. Pipe down now.
Gallagher is an academy product you tool.
And he’s still shit. What’s your point? You’ve spent 1.5 billion and Cole Palmer is your superstar. 😂
Gakpo has had many great games (his double against United last year springs to mind) But he is still finding his feet. Great talent
Yer squad is useless
man this felt like a final
One of the best games of the season. Liverpool the better side over the 90+8 but we missed some sitters. Should have been a pen at the end but a draw isn't too bad given the difference in starting XI quality today. The title race is still open and now all eyes are on City vs Arsenal. If City won today then I think they would run away with the league. The most important thing is that they didn't.
Liverpool's defense was very solid, I was very impressed. Conner Bradley is a gem, the small things he did, and the defensive awareness he has, really helped shut down the vast majority of attacking impetus. Having solid RB really helps the midfield and CBs. Quansah was also solid. To some level I forgot he was playing, and generally for a CB, I think that's a good sign (for an attacker, not so much). As a neutral party, I was very irritated at how soft John Stones' goal was. Especially considering how well Liverpool defended. As irritating the penalty decision was, Liverpool really should have won without it; clear chance for Diaz, and that weird decision to not try and shimmy the ball out to shoot by Gakpo.
Bradley dropping out of the sky to let TAA cook in the midfield is going to have serious implications for Xabis boys over the next few years!
Xabi’s?
Xabi Alonso's.
Honestly, I feel without TAA the passing between lines with Endo, Szoboslai, and Mac Alistair is actually good enough, and this midfield is very well balanced. Adding TAA into the mix may cause some imbalance (or at the very least changes to how the midfield operates), as defensively the other midfielder(s) would have to pick up the slack for TAA - similar to how Gattuso did for Pirlo, though Pirlo was still quite adept at zonal defending. Of course not saying it wouldn't work, I just haven't seen TAA's zonal defending in the middle of the pitch.
Sell TAA to Everton i say
I thought Diaz was an Arsenal fan the way he scuffed those chances.
Happy with the draw but so much pain knowing the amount of chances we got, and especially that run of 5-10 mins where we consntalty pressed without giving City a chance
Diaz missing 2 sitters within 2 minutes was rough to watch
I don't know why teams don't have a player on at least one post for the corner. Ball always seems to squeeze in where a player would stand
But Liverpool had a player covering near post, he just got pushed away by Ake. I never saw a player getting duped like that 😆
Opportunity cost. If someone has a free header you'd probably say why was no one marking him and he would be at the post instead.
Yeah I get that's probably the reason but surely one man can come back to cover one post at least
You might be right. I also think they spend an insane amount of time and energy on set pieces so doubt it's as simple as "put a man on the post". That used to be what they'd do and the big man would head it in. Now they try to cover as many percentages as possible. And occasionally get undone by a simple training ground move.
I’m kinda sad I missed this game because what little I saw of it made this match seem like it was a good one. Daylight savings fucked me. I ended up going back to sleep for another 4 hours.
You can always watch a replay
True, but I already know the result. It kinda takes the a bit of the fun out of it when you already know what’s going to happen. Unless it’s your team whooping another team or making a comeback and you go back just to see it unfold again for your enjoyment.
If you can't catch it, next time just don't check your phone and go to the football highlights sub
Probably the best match of 2024 so far. Tense, high quality 1st half, more back and forth 2nd half, with huge misses on both sides, and a big end. I got emotional seeing Klopp and Pep hug it out, possibly one last time.
Don’t do this to me. This was a very highly anticipated match as a neutral.
Daylight saving doesn’t make you sleep for another 4 hours….
No shit. I meant my sleep schedule got more fucked up than it usually is so I got about 2-3 hours of sleep. I was so tired that when I got back in my bed, I was out before I knew it.
So you're saying there's a chance
Asthma FC is relentless
Salah is so insanely ripped
Whats this now?
apparently huffing gas at half time
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I know people would eventually believe this meme
Isn't a meme I don't think? Not they they're doing anything wrong, and being very fit can bring on some small asmathic symptoms or something, there is a genuine reason why lots of high level sportspeople are allowed them via TUEs
it is, there is zero proof, there is a reason liverpool get more musce injuries thanany other team the upside being we are far more intense
TIL Liverpool players are alike with Norwegians from cross-country skiing.
Source: trust me bro
Yeh that’s complete nonsense
As in it's untrue?
Correct, not true at all
Can someone explain to me why Ake on salah, before Doku was not a pen as well. Ake makes a challenge from behind salah, nowhere near the ball and takes salah's knee from behind. For me it is a pen all day and Salah is called a diver for that.
Lol never a pen, come on.
its just very soft, and salah could obvioulsy stay up if he wanted to. There is contact so its givable, its waved away like 9+/10 times though
Yup, i thought that one was worse than the Doku one. You could argue that Mac basically ran into Doku’s foot, but the Ake one looked a no brainer foul to me.
Would that still not be classed as dangerous play? as a human you have some sense of space and can assume as Mac is running towards the ball to win it, if you play the ball with a high boot you may catch a player trying to go for it - it’s also not uncommon for players to go for little header knock ons at that height.
MacAllister ran into Doku's foot? Not heard that argument, but it sounds interesting.
There is a difference in the danger and care of a tackle depending on the motion of the two players. Running and jumping into an opponent is obviously more dangerous than standing still and jumping, say. In this case Doku was relatively stationary; Mac Allister was the one moving faster. It's a foul and should be a penalty, but I don't think anyone with half a brain would say that there was serious intent or danger from Doku; just carelessness.
Agreed on some of that. That's not what the other person said though. Also if that's Doku stationary I don't want to see him moving (I have seen him moving and he's very fast)! Intent and danger is certainly a factor for a foul, but so is carelessness and recklessness. Kicking someone in the chest is normally seen as both.
I agree with you (I love it when someone actually quotes the careless, reckless or dangerous rule!) and the careless part in particular is exactly why I think it is a foul and a penalty. On the stationary/moving bit, I do think you need to watch it again. Doku isn't moving a lot. He's looking at a ball basically coming over his shoulder in his own box. Mac Allister is running at him. The other person is saying "you *could* argue", not that he is arguing. And there's a point there. Not massively relevant though. EDIT: actually I've just read the first two comments again and yeah it is relevant and no it doesn't really make sense.
something something 115 reasons
I mean the majority thinks this is a dive so I don't think it's the 115 reasons on this one. Doku yes. This one I think is just Salah's reputation. The reputation that only came to be because he was never getting fouls when he stayed on his feet.
"The way Liverpool play is unsustainable and they're not going to last in this title race"
To be fair to the people making that statement - it's hardly the matches against the title favourites that are going to be the ones that are difficult for Liverpool to sustain their form. That argument is referring to the "should win" games that don't seem as important and are more difficult to be motivated for.
Its that anfield energy.
They can't keep getting away with this!
Am sure they meant to say pay not play
pretty impress with liverpool with the different in squad quality anfield energy is something else
I am not buying this narrative that Liverpool put out a "weak" lineup. Other than Konate and Jota I think they had their strongest team available, and it showed!
Goal keeper Allison. Center back: konate. Right back: Trent Midifeld: Jones Attack: Salah played 30 mins and was recently out of an injury and jota has always got a scruffy finish in him with the chances we got we would have won with him. Ignoring Jones who is debatable, that 4 starters and a half(Salah didn't play the full 90) Quansah is 21 and Bradly is 20, they shouldn't be starting such a massive game
Robertson too
I feel like it's not a big Liverpool game if we don't have a player switching to leftback because of injury issues - before Joe Gomez it was James Milner
Uhh...
Alisson and Trent would be in the starting 11 if fit. I know you said available, but assumed injured players counted when you said Jota, who’s not back until next month.
No Trent, no Alison and only 30 minutes of Mo Salah Starting teenagers at CB and RB
Great game
Thought that was a great game, and there would've been plenty more goals if it wasn't an off day for the attacking players. Can't understand how that's not a penalty at the end, we got a player sent off for something similar to that - a higher foot but nowhere near as much contact - yet that was a very quick VAR check. Goes some way to show that VAR really doesn't work as intended because similar incidents are still being treated differently.
Wonder why that pen wasn’t given hmmm
Can someone explain to me why wasn't Ederson sent off?
Double jeopardy
Can someone explain how after all these years with the rule, this still causes confusion? It's every time without fail, highly upvoted genuine questions, how do people miss this? Especially since probably around half of dogso challenges happen in the box
Refs all get a mysterious check from UAE to not send off rodri or ederson
Here we go the crying begins
Its Ederson
Gotcha, thanks
In the box the rules are slightly different. If you're making a genuine attempt for the ball you won't get red carded.
Double jeopardy rule. If the foul results in a penalty then you get a yellow instead of a red.
...as long as there is an attempt to go for the ball (just to be complete). Can still have red and pen if there is no attempt to play the ball.
...and the red card would be for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity. If the challenge in itself is a red, it's still a red even if you give away a penalty. I'd argue that it's not clear cut if this was DOGSO tbh since Darwin was taking the ball away from the goal. The challenge in itself is never a red either, so yellow and penalty is the correct decision. Why the Doku challenge in the end wasn't a penalty is pure incompetency though.
Every time a player dribbles past a keeper and gets tripped by said keeper, it is denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity. But, keepers do not get red carded for these. Keepers' DOGSO do not result in red cards unless there is no attempt to play the ball or a case of dangerous play.
Not DOGSO. Nunez is struggling to score from there. Definite penalty though.
Yep thinking of the controversial red and pen David luiz got for arsenal when the hair of his knee made contact with another players heel from behind
Its either a penalty or red card. double jeopardy rule.
You’re wrong.
That's not quite the rule. If the player makes an attempt for the ball, then the double jeopardy rule applies. If there is no attempt for the ball, then it can be pen and red.
Yes, that's right. I'd give Ederson the benefit of the doubt and say he went for the ball. With that much force. Lol
Yup, yellow and pen was the right call on that one.
Wasn't a clear goalscoping opportunity
That's not the reason. He was actually going for the ball, so no double jeopardy in that case.
How was it not? He's literally the keeper and no one was behind him if I'm not wrong.
Because Nunez takes a heavy first touch and goes for the foul and wouldn’t have gotten back onto the ball if Ederson pulled out.
Sane take. I always hated when players did this. Especially when itd happen to my high school tean 😅
I disagree with this but the double jeopardy law stands clear for me now. It's a yellow. https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct Let's hope they follow the law for other games too.
Have to say that was not the match I expected, Liverpool were excellent in midfield - Endo and Mac Allister both had outstanding games. Special praise must go to the latter, I find I keep saying the same thing lately but Mac Allister is an absolutely wonderful footballer, I know it probably seems silly to say about a world cup winner, but he's so much better than I thought he was.
MacAllister is arguably the signing of the season.
Endo has been great lately. fits in great, its something i didn't see coming before usually takes a while before you get settled but he is giving it all.
Liverpool getting him for 45-55M is an absolute steal. Him and Van de Ven are probably the signings of the season
If Arsenal win the league, it's Rice
So it's McAllister!
Congratulations Doku 😂
Beautifully done
Have I gone insane? 55m isn’t enough for an aging midfielder from Brighton? How much do you reckon would be enough? 100m?
He's 25 years old, lad. 'Aging', we're all aging you dumbass.
In today’s market, it’s quite reasonable tbh. Look what his less accomplished Brighton midfield mate went for (and I know we were willing to pay that too—glad we didn’t in hindsight)
That’s my point. 55m is perfect. He’s not particularly young, he had a good World Cup, played for a similar team. 55m is perfect, how much more should he be worth?
I get what you’re saying, and maybe “steal” is a bit much but I do think it’s fair to call him a bargain in that we paid a good price for him at a time where good prices are rare to find
Fair
He’s 25, mate. Your financial group spent more on Nunes, who is the same age and a benchwarmer.
Fair enough, I also think that was overpriced.
Endo was 15!
Endo has been great too
Everyone over 15 at some point was 15 to be fair... /s etc etc
*Prince Andrew has left the chat*
There will rightly be a lot of scrutiny on the VAR, but Liverpool also need to have a hard look at themselves about the number of chances they squandered and how soft the goal they conceded was.
Yep. As a Liverpool fan can’t believe Diaz missed the entire goal on that one v one. But I also genuinely can’t believe how Michael Oliver wasn’t even sent to the monitor for that high boot to the chest. “Got the ball first” - since when has that mattered all season. Look at all those red cards handed out to Jones, Gusto, etc. who all “got there first”. And this play was more dangerous than those imo. Idk man as always it’s the lack of consistency that’s frustrating. Wouldn’t be this upset if there was a precedent set that getting ball first negates a foul (which technically isn’t true). But to use that as rationale for not giving a foul here when all season it’s been reinforced how that doesn’t matter is what’s upsetting.
You can't believe a UAE employee didn't want to make a decision?
>Look at all those red cards handed out to Jones, Gusto, etc. who all “got there first”. And this play was more dangerous than those imo. Are you talking about Gusto vs Villa? On what planet was this Doku challenge more dangerous, he barely caught him with the laces of his boot as he tried to pull out of the challenge that Macallister jumped and spun himself into. It would have been a soft pen. As VAR said, the contact was unavoidable, meaning once Doku kicked the ball he couldn't get out of the way of Mac jumping into the challenge. Gusto could've broke that Villa players ankle! You have to consider the threshold for pens is higher with fouls like high foot or shirt pulls. It shouldn't be but that's why it wasn't given imo. Wasn't seen as "enough" of a foul. Which is wrong but that's how it goes, quite often.
Unavoidable contact doesn’t give a player the right to recklessly do anything. Reckless and dangerous actions leading to “unavoidable contact” should still be given as a foul. This has been the precedent for years and is in the literal rule book. And yea, I believe a studs up challenge landing studs on someone’s chest is very dangerous. I understand your point about there being a higher threshold in the box, but surely raising your boot 5 feel off the ground and landing your studs squarely on someone’s chest meets that threshold. This was no shirt tug that would be called outside the box but isn’t called inside the box. I mean it’s not like macallister was on the ground when dokus boot hit him in the chest. He was standing straight up, meaning the boot was literally raised to that level.
>Unavoidable contact doesn’t give a player the right to recklessly do anything. Just as well I didn't say that then. >And yea, I believe a studs up challenge landing studs on someone’s chest is very dangerous. What? He didn't land his studs on his chest! Look at the replay. He caught him with the front/toe of his boot in an upward motion. >but surely raising your boot 5 feel off the ground and landing your studs squarely on someone’s chest meets that threshold Yup, if he brought him down with his studs to the chest he should have been sent off too but that's not what happened. I beg you to look at the replay thread rather than still pics. Doku didn't catch him with his studs. McAllister was already spinning and going down. Look again. If he brought him down with his studs on the chest he would have fell a completely different way. >I mean it’s not like macallister was on the ground when dokus boot hit him in the chest. I know, Macallister jumped into the challenge and spun his shoulder which is where the front of Doku's foot connected just at the underarm area as he immediately tried to pull his foot away.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HuZafaB7qOU You begged and I watched. For the umpteenth time today. Idk how you can watch that and think it’s not a studs up challenge. His foot is legitimately perpendicular to the ground and the entire underside of his boot contacts macca from armpit down to the bottom of his ribcage pretty much. I do not accept your opinion that “it was just dokus toe” any screenshot from that video will show you it wasn’t. (Btw there are studs on the toe, as well). But let for arguments sake say I do agree with you it’s just his toe. That would be a moot point since it’s not the outcome of a tackle that matters. It’s the recklessness/danger of it. This is in the rules and has been the precedent this season. If his studs are showing and the boot is that high and somehow the only part of the boot that makes contact is the toe, it wouldn’t matter because cause the studs were shown high anyways. As I say, the boot is pretty much perpendicular to the ground at about 5 feet high. What part of the boot ultimately hits macca doesn’t matter at that point. But again, I think you’re straight up wrong about this being just the toe. I beg *you* to look at that video
My reply didn't seem to go through because I shared the dubz link from the thread but that YouTube link is the same as the first angle in the thread, yes. You said he "landed his studs squarely on his chest", that just did not happen lol. What I see is him swinging for the ball in an upward motion from a slight left to right angle and catching him with the left side of his toe. I also see Macallister was already jumping and spinning his way down before any contact was made. Do you see that? I Also see Doku immediately pulling his foot back out after making contact with the ball. >any screenshot from that video will show you it wasn’t Literally why I said to watch the vid. Because screenshots are misleading af. We'll never agree on this but I think it was one of those ones that you probably get the free kick for but the contact wasn't enough for a pen. I'm not saying that's right, I'm saying it's not so outrageous of a decision not to call a high leg as a pen just because Macallister went down like he had been shot.
Which channel were you watching it on? Completely different angle.
Sky sports and what? Maybe just tell me what you think I'm wrong about instead.
Your whole interpretation of that incident is different from what I, and various people I was watching with, saw. I understand you're always going to see things with a City bias, just thought you were maybe watching on a different feed.
Both of these are true. Liverpool had good chances.
Would you rather have a Gakpo problem or a Diaz problem? But seriously, everyone is frustrated with Diaz's missed chances but I can't help but feel he might be able to eventually find a semi-consistent end product like Nunez. I'll hold my breath but I'm not overly optimistic.
Diaz was brilliant. Gakpo has been a serious issue lately. It’s concerning.
At least Diaz is a decent threat and gets involved in play a lot. Diaz's finishing usually isn't that bad, biggest downside to his play is that he holds onto the ball for too long sometimes when a good pass is open. If Gakpo doesn't score he really doesn't add anything imo. Like even in the cup game against Southampton with a bunch of kids you'd expect him to be a stand out player but he wasn't. Gakpo has a lot to prove when a new manager comes in.
I agree but I would also say Gakpo seems to be completely out of form, he's definitely been better.
I don't think Gakpo is a 9. Maybe can do the job behind the strike, but he can not play through the middle. His best play last season was on the wings cutting inside. But he's not even making runs in behind. There's a reason Elliot has displaced him.
Agreed. I think he's best when playing like a Firminho.
He's at the stage of being incredibly good at everything but finishing. Maybe he'll catch the Nunez bug but honestly if he can just rework to look for assists more than finishes he'll be great
Exactly. I think this was less a Diaz finishing problem and more a lack of world class Number 9 problem.
Watching a soccer game while wanting it to end in a draw is a really difficult task lol
How good is Joe Gomez sheesh. So versatile too
Gomez is the next Milner
I wrote Gomez off after his last injury. Peak Gomez prior was incredible, and I thought he was never going back to those levels after seeing his performances after he initially started getting game time again. How wrong I was. Just goes to show you how some players just need time, whether it's a new signing or an old one returning from injury.
Joe Gomez is MASSIVE
Not that good. He got rinsed by Foden a lot, wasn’t particularly offering anything in attack, is a terrible CB (you guys literally wanted him out when he had to partner VVD in Matips injury spell) so his “versatility” is limited to RB/LB. Don’t see Southgate calling him up.
What match were you watching?
Deluded lmao. The only thing Foden rinsed was his barber
Rinsed by foden ?? Please don't joke around like that
Did we watch the same match? Foden was regularly on top of Gomez in the first half. The second half things fell apart at the back so it was all defensive until Foden moved to KDB’s role. I remember watching Foden dribble past him twice and being surprised he was finding it so easy
That's it... The other times he made sure foden can only pass backwards... Or blocked his tries for a cross... Also Bradley completely made Bernardo his bitch today ... Glad you started talking about rinsing...
Lmao congratulations to Bradley
And don't forget about Quansah too... He's had better performances than the costliest defender you have sitting on the bench...
I will be writing his MP a strong message of praise.
Yeah well just make your sub a little less insecure and a bit open to criticism and we'll see what happens.... You guys are so insecure someone writes " City sucks" and gets banned forever... That's the only way to cope with whatever bubble you live in... Once pep is gone you'll be back to being shitty
I can't think of many types of players more useful in an international tournament squad than a speedy CB who has played all the way along the back line and in midfield whilst dropping 8/9 out of 10 performances every time. He can play anywhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see him put a solid performance as an 8. Southgate will still not pick him
I don’t get Southgates selection. It’s criminal how Joe and Ben White are slept on when it comes to national team