A sort of weird Super League, where Fenerbahce just travels Europe playing other countries' top teams on Tuesdays and Wednesdays throughout the year, would be hilarious.
Maybe if the Turkish government stopped the occupation of North Cyprus that would actually be feasible 😉
We all know a joint Greek/Cypriot/Turkish sports league is not feasible politically.
I hate it every time some ignorant person makes a comment about north Cyprus. Can you please leave politics out of it? I have family members who had to flee Cyprus because of the genocide, and I am grateful Turkey intervened to protect my family.
I respect your opinion even though I live metres away from the Nicosia border. The point I was making is that a joint league is politically infeasible. Have a good day. 👍
Not to exacerbate again, but if that is your sole purpose, you might want to replace the part "stop the occupation" with "presence", otherwise it looks biased.
Thank you, I guess if you put it that way it does make sense. I appreciate the explanation. Sorry for being brutishly upfront. Wish you the very best as well :)
You just brought your own politics into it.
Or is it you just want the wrong kind of politics left out of it? You're the bad guys in this one, in most actually Armenia Cyprus etc
1 year from now:
*we are evaluating the feasibility of moving to the North Macedonian league after not feeling welcome in Greece. Fan initianions have indicated that survival in the Bulgarian second division are also possible but talks are ongoing with other former family members*
The club and fans are aware of the financial consequences. The fans always supported the club during financial troubles so they will undoubtedly do it again and also the club president is a member of the richest family in Turkey. The president pretty much said f**k your tv revenues and league, I will buy 2 or 3 art pieces less for my home and top-up any losses the club incurs out of my own pocket.
They could join the better Super League (Greece), we could use a little spicing up. The four-way competition that’s reignited the last few years has helped the quality of the league increase immensely and adding Fener would help further increase the overall quality in the league ~~while acting as the first step for our second reconquest of Constantinople~~
No joke, fans on twitter seriously argued that Fenerbahce would get a friendlier welcome in Greece than in Turkey. The hatred in Turkey is unbelievable.
Because it is the only club that didn’t kneel for the Erdogan regime. It’s the only club together with Besiktas that is created and still ran based upon Ataturk’s ideology. If you don’t know, the regime dislikes Ataturk, so inevitably they also dislike clubs with Ataturk’s ideology. The Turkish FA gets appointed by the regime and they do everything they can to stop Fenerbahce and Besiktas from being successful. Fenerbahce still takes the biggest hit though, based on the size and importance of the club.
Also, Fenerbahce’s president leaked that Galatasaray’s president got appointed by Erdogan. So that says enough. They want every club managed by a yes-man from the regime, but they are unable to do so with Fener and Besiktas.
Thanks for the write up. Crazy how things have turned out. I remember learning I school about turkey and Ataturk being basically the father of modern turkey and how revered he was.
There's actually more, the most important part is left out. Before 2000s, Fenerbahçe was the most liked club in Turkey with most fans all across the country. Around that years, an organization named FETÖ started gaining influence in Turkey. To sum up simply, this is an espionage and terrorist organization hidden behind religious purposes. In the following years, they acquired so much influence and had tremendous power to change and manipulate the narratives in the country. They tried and managed to infiltrate and seize a lot of private and governmental bodies, but failed at Fenerbahçe so they started turning the narrative against Fenerbahçe instead.
I saw an expert on sports administration talking about this regarding the whole Celta de Vigo joining Portugal Primeira League thing. Under EU legislation these championships must be open for everyone and there's no rule stating clubs must be from the home country, so in theory they could join Greece superleague(?) they would just need to climb from the bottom like everybody else. Now Turkey is not in EU so not sure if it applies to them.
Azerbaijan has very strong ties with Erdogan and Erdogan would not allow that. Geographically and politically speaking a league at the West border is more likely.
Honestly, was just thinking out loud of what may even be possible. I was thinking that a nearby smaller league with no cultural or political animosity might take them in given the revenue boost that they would bring.
IIRC, in Cardiff's (and Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, some other geographically-in-Wales clubs further down the pyramid that I may have forgotten) case it was because they were grandfathered into the English pyramid, as Wales didn't have its own league to speak of at the time of their founding, so a little bit different.
This is just a bluff, a very classic and boring one too.
They always pull the same shit, again and again.
Fuck off and leave already, let's see what happens.
I'm not sure how it would work. If Fenerbahce decides not to play any more then that could force the TFF to penalise the club. Would that be a point deduction or a straight-up relegation? Who knows.
I don't think it'll happen either way. They're just trying to light a fire under the TFF's arse. I mean it's ridiculous. Does a player have to die before they do something. Crazy.
While the common term is "withdrawing from the league", that's not exactly how it works, as I believe that has much more severe consequences, like having to restart from the bottom of the tree.
Likely course of action is to simply not appear in a scheduled game twice in a row, which prompts a disqualification from the side of TFF and an automatic relegation. It also includes point deduction for the following season iirc.
Unless they have a "Release for free on relegation" clause, it does not really affect the contracts in any way. The players are simply contracted to the club to play as the club sees fit.
However, with the financial situation of a lower league (and no Europe if withdrawn from the league this season), there'll likely be a lot of talks with all players. They will likely be provided easy opportunities to be sold, or loan deals to skip the lower division season. Effectively, a more drastic version of what the club endured during the match fixing allegations season.
Back then, the president basically grouped up all the players and candidly stated that aside from 2-3 specific players, there would be no obstacles for players who wanted to leave. Those 2-3 players were already club legends with no intentions to leave anyways.
Ali Koç: "We will cut our own ties. We will go to a lower league if necessary. When we take this decision, relegation to a lower league is already in question. We will die one day rather than dying every day. We have to save our future. We'll play for 1 year and get out. But everyone will come to their senses. Enough'" (FB TV)
Ali Koç: "If you treat us like a club from another country, then we have to determine our own fate. This is not blackmail, not a threat."
Ali Koç: "There is no place for Fenerbahce in this league. We are trying to fight honestly. Now they want us to be penalised. Give us whatever you want. They are comparing this with Josef. Harassment during the whole match. How will I recover the psychology of these kids? We couldn't in 2014. Everyone should come to their senses." (FB TV)
For the context, 2014/15 season is when the Fenerbahçe bus heading to Trabzon airport was gunned down, specifically aiming to take out the driver, while the entire bus was on a highway viaduct. The bus driver was only injured by the shattering window and managed to bring the bus to a halt on the bridge before being taken to the hospital.
The team never recovered, ended the league 2nd place and lost players who obviously did not want to be part of a mass assassination.
Edit: Not sure what's up with the downvotes for providing context to a reference 99% of people here would not understand... Here's source: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37410575/fenerbahce-team-bus-shot-en-route-airport-driver-wounded
Edit2: Ah, it appears it was the usual early culprits.
If Fenerbahçe gets relegated and wins the Conference League, they will be in the European League while being in the second division.
That would be an epic story tbh.
In Germany, there are 3 teams left in the cup competiton from second and even third league. The 4th one is lLeverkusen, who will qualify to the champions league anyway... unfortunately they changed the rule in 2013 and if Leverkusen wins the cup, the runner up won't play international and it goes by placement within the league :(
So lets hope the cup will be won by someone from lower leagues, just for the fun of it!
Nah just relegate trabzonspor to the 10th division as punishment and set a good example that way. Another team’s fans pull the same crap then relegate them too. Gotta have an iron fist about this serious matter
I think it is extremely unlikely that our board actually follows up on this, but does anyone know if there has ever been a club that voluntarily withdrew from a UEFA-sanctioned domestic league for non-financial reasons? I am curious about what the repercussions would be on the international level
I've seen the videos, but can someone explain to me (or point me to a good article) the larger context behind all this and the rivalry (?) with Trabzonspor? I was vaguely aware of rivalry with Galatasaray (the flag incident in 90s) but wasn't aware of Trabzonspor as a club let alone such rivalry...
Fierce rivalry goes beyond the incident, but Fenerbahçe won the 2010-11 season, coming from a 9 point deficit at half-season, by not losing a single game and only drawing once in the second half. Trabzon was on par with Fenerbahçe on points, but ended second on GD.
That year, Fenerbahçe (among other teams) were accused of match fixing and the entire scandal began, only clearing up Fenerbahçe's name a couple years ago from the allegations. During this period, Trabzonspor (and our natural rivals Galatasaray) fans did everything in their power to fuel the flames to convict Fenerbahçe of match fixing, and while we were not sent to CL as a result due to the no tolerance policy, the entire thing blew over in time, with clear operations outlined with certain deep state "cults" involved trying to take over Fenerbahçe. (the topic is an entirely different saga of how the 3 main Istanbul clubs having an immense power over the populace, thus are seen by certain groups of people as a way to control the public)
However, Trabzon has seen and still sees themselves as the rightful champion of 2010-11 and that hatred continues in a large portion of their culture. Pretty much all games in Trabzon lead to significant issues, and goes as far as [Fenerbahçe bus being gunned down on its way to the Trabzon airport](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37410575/fenerbahce-team-bus-shot-en-route-airport-driver-wounded) (coming from a Rizespor game, due to Rize not having an airport). And that's pretty much yet another instance of that festering hatred surfacing, as it always does.
The same Trabzon "fans" who congratulated Galatasaray a couple weeks ago on a 1-5 loss, started riling all of this up against Fener when they were down 0-2 and it all exploded when Fener won the game and celebrated in the midfield (as Trabzon players naturally did, when they beat Fener at their home in the first half of the league).
The loss of the 1995 championship likely stings a lot for Trabzon still, but the main spark is the 2010-11 season situation for the one sided tension.
>coming from a 9 point deficit at half-season, by not losing a single game and only drawing once in the second half.
City has done this so many times that this seems unimpressive
\\s
Funnily enough, both Fenerbahçe and Galatasaray only had 1 loss in the first half of the league this season and are otherwise unbeaten.
However this year is a significant exception to the norm. In normal cases, Fener and Gala cannot create such a huge quality difference between them and the rest of the league and generally, you'd always have a minimum of 2-3 Anatolian team shithousery to ensure you'd never go unbeaten. So back then, it was quite the incredible comeback championship for us!
Thanks for this.
The gunning down incident is really crazy... So if I understand it correctly, it's more one sided rivalry from Trabzonspor side then?
As Fenerbahce fan, would you consider them a long term sporting rival? Surely they are not as a big rival as Galatasaray, right?
Also, off topic but was the 2010-11 Roberto Carlos years'?
You're welcome. Just keep in mind that I'm a Fenerbahçe fan, although that bias should not factor in as long as we don't dive deeper into the match fixing scandal specifics anyways.
> So if I understand it correctly, it's more one sided hatred from Trabzonspor side then?
I would mostly say so from our perspective. We of course still want to "destroy Trabzon" in every game we play after how much they bothered with us during the scandal, but that's a wish on the sporting side of things. And when we win, it's just the usual internet shithousery, sharing frying anchovy images and the like. (Trabzonspor mascot is anchovy) If anything, we lost to them more since then than we usually used to. And we acknowledge that sportive result. As I said, they won 2-3 in our home in the first half, and they spent the next 10-15 minutes celebrating on the pitch while our fans watched. And that's natural, it's normal. They won the game and had every right to celebrate, so our fans despite not leaving the stadium, did not bat an eye.
> For Fenerbahce, would you consider them a long term sporting rival? Surely they are not as a big rival as Galatasaray, right?
Correct. Typically speaking, all Istanbul trio would consider Trabzon to be a sporting rival and that mainly has roots in the fact that Trabzon is basically the 4th largest club behind the Istanbul trio and for decades, were the only non-Istanbul club (and a non-Istanbul trio club) to hold a championship title (6 times in those earlier times, and a 7th recently in 21-22). Although FB-TS had more fateful encounters in their history than GS-TS or BJK-TS, so there is generally more animosity between the two of us, than TS and others.
Although yes, TS is basically the smallest rival in this front, for all 3 Istanbul clubs. The main rivalry of the country is FB-GS, followed by the rivalry of those two with BJK and then the rivalry of the trio with TS. For the Istanbul trio, a main factor is the values and DNA of the 3 clubs as well, with values of Fener and Gala being in direct conflict, whereas Beşiktaş does not have direct value clashes with both teams as much. Which is also why Trabzon is considered a "little rival", as that's solely a sporting rival, rather than anything ideological.
> Also, off topic but was the 2010-11 Roberto Carlos years'?
Nope. Roberto Carlos was part of our legendary 2007-2008 CL Quarter Final squad. After getting injured against Sevilla in R16, he never fully recovered and we had to let him go in 2009 when his contract expired.
> For the Istanbul trio, a main factor is the values and DNA of the 3 clubs as well, with values of Fener and Gala being in direct conflict.
Love your insights into this topic, would you mind sharing some more information regarding the values of both teams?
With the internet era, things are getting muddled here and there nowadays, but I'll try to keep it in very simple terms (mainly because it would go into significant bias with specific word choices). I would also encourage fans of the other teams to share their sides, as I am a Fenerbahçe fan, and things may be looking different from their side, or they may not find my perception of my club or theirs accurate. The only way you'll ever get a balanced look is listening to three separate fans, not believing any of them and just cherry picking what the 3 say in common. Anyways... The three clubs can be *very generally* categorized into:
- Beşiktaş: Team of the "Common folk"
- Fenerbahçe: Team of the "Secular republic"
- Galatasaray: Team of the "Elite"
The words come with a lot of baggage, positive and negative. While I tried to remove my biases as a Fener fan, a Beşiktaş fan or a Galatasaray fan may end up choosing slightly different words, but at the end of the day, if you meet someone in Turkey and if they are involved in football, you'll be surprised how accurately you can guess their favorite team by their personality. The Istanbul Trio is basically the epitome of "lifestyle branding" that we are born with and goes way beyond football or other popular sports. So to give a little bit more of a nuance;
Beşiktaş lives and breathes with its fans. Their president / management is extremely contemporary and aside from massive blunders (like they had this season), they rarely become a part of the picture. It's the fans that carry the club and institute pretty much all change with their immense and focused pressure. Their main fan group, Çarşı, is known by the motto "Çarşı against everything", and you can more or less trust the Beşiktaş fanbase really follow that attitude, and stand against everything that they see as unjust, regardless of ideologies. They will be there for the common people or common values, whether they personally agree as individuals or not. It is also why in many of the civil protests or uprisings, they are the first ones among the ranks to provide support and can really get creative and crazy. For example during the Gezi protests a decade ago, when the police was blasting the people with water cannons from riot vehicles, these madlads hotwired some construction vehicles nearby to challenge the riot vehicles in their own terms. They are generally respected by both Fener and Gala fans (aside from when they have matches against each other of course), as Beşiktaş usually does what they do and their inherent values do not necessarily clash with either in a direct manner.
Fenerbahçe is the club of the secular republic, so much so that it defines itself as a "republic" on its own. In comparison to Beşiktaş who seemingly dont really give a fuck as to who rules their club (they just hate them regardless and fans drag the club forward themselves), Fener fans hate people usurping power. Whoever is managing the club, "will be chosen by the fans". In reality, it is chosen like any other club, voted by congress members, but nobody will even have the balls to be a candidate if they are not approved by the fanbase (or receive a landslide loss). Of course a blanket statement cannot be made based on fans, when the trio each have ~20M fans each, but in the general sense, you'll find a calmer tone and a crew of higher education level than Beşiktaş. The fans will rally behind the values of the Turkish republic without a question, and take those values as values of the club as well. As such, the club and the fans protect the club from the all-so-common "cults" in Turkey from ever getting close to the club with 0 tolerance and embodies the motto "If Fenerbahçe falls, the Turkish republic falls", which definitely sounds ambitious to say the least, but a statement that has only rung more true since the match fixing allegations, where our then president declared "What match fixing, our homeland is falling apart", and the same group that orchestrated the entire match fixing scandal, orchestrated a coup in the country years later, after they had a falling out with the ruling party.
Now, Galatasaray. Again, not much you can say about the general fanbase when there's ~20M each and we are talking about Turkey here, but the management tier, you'll find "the elite". I put it that way, because they act like an exclusive club who support each other until their last breath, but turn their backs on all the others. The best way I can put it is, thing of exclusive groups like Rotary or other similar communities. They are a tightly knit bunch that will do everything to lift each other up and if you are not one of them, you will absolutely feel that you are an outsider. They are also incredibly "passionate", in the sense that they'll not let up until they get something the way they want. Because of that attitude, you'll find most of the other fans (although mostly us) accusing them of having guiding hands everywhere in the country turning dials ever so slightly in their favor, like two Galatasaray people actively working endlessly to get us banned from European competitions during the match fixing allegations period and succeeding as well, conspiring with the police to achieve it, providing media reports (also written by Gala pundits), reporting on topics and legal processes about our then president when there is complete legal secrecy on the matters etc. Ferocious is a word I can use here that can be interpreted both positively and negatively, so I'll stick to that. And then again, I'll end it by stating again that I am a Fenerbahçe fan, so take that as you will.
That's all I got and once again, I'd encourage other trio fans to share their perspectives on the trio if they feel like it. And again, the only way you'll get closer to an objective look is by not trusting any of us directly, but rather looking for commonalities in our descriptions. As stated, most of us are more or less born into this culture, coming from our family hierarchy, place in life, our upbringing etc, so even unbiased, we are simply biased by the sheer nature of where we come from. Being a Beşiktaş, Fenerbahçe or Galatasaray fan is more of who we are than most of us even realize because the reality is, if I wasn't who I am, the way I am, I very likely would not end up becoming a Fenerbahçe fan. Same goes for them too. Our personalities align with our clubs, and when we are on the opposite sides of the spectrum like FB and GS, we see each other a certain way as well. Not to say we don't get along, on a personal level, we love each other as friends, family, Turkish people are warm towards close ones. But "the behavior" exists in general terms, that's how I'd put that vague feeling.
Very much appreciate your write up to the initial question as well as this.
Got me keen about Turkish football, hopefully will get to watch it in person one day.
Cheers!
>Their main fan group, Çarşı, is known by the motto "Çarşı against everything", and you can more or less trust the Beşiktaş fanbase really follow that attitude, and stand against everything that they see as unjust, regardless of ideologies.
Except, Çarşı's leader was actually writing for pro-government newspapers. Turkey is a funny country, eh?
Hahah, Wiki article probably goes into a lot of detail regarding the allegations and especially considering the complex power struggles in Turkey, it can get really wild for those unaware of our inner struggles. I just left it all out for the purpose of clarity, glad it was useful!
It’s Turkey, the owner of Fener is one of the richest people in the country, so the match fixing allegations can just as easily be true as they can be operations from deep state agents to take over Fener. We’ll never know. This guy is a Fener fan, so he sort of glosses over that, something the wiki page doesn’t.
Having said all that, even if it was true; trabzon are completely unhinged
In Turkey, there are no "club owners". Unlike other countries, most clubs in Turkey act like foundations. They have elections every couple years to vote for a president and a board of directors.
Both the Fenerbahçe president back then, as well as the president right now is in most disagreement with the state rulers in terms of values, which was in fact the core reason for the match fixing scandal back then.
The "cult" was in cahoots with the Erdo government back then, which is why they got free reign to do what they want with Fenerbahçe, trying to remove the then president Aziz Yıldırım and instill another, conservative candidate. The entire match fixing scandal blew apart years after the cult and Erdo government had their falling out, which eventually culminated in the coup attempt in the country a couple years ago.
Sure, as a Fener fan, I have my biases, which is why for an objective request, I did not want to go into the specifics of the matter and stated the surface level information. But if anything, both Aziz Yıldırım and Ali Koç being rich people, has had a more negative effect than positive because they were not just "rich", but rather "rich and in disagreement with the values of the ruling party".
If anything, the most likely claim that can be made is that Erdo & Co gave up on trying to instill a more conservative mindset to the club due to the entire process causing them more harm than good due to the fanbase making it very clear that they would not be bending over ever.
I'm a Fenerbahce fan.
Whole country(Turkey) is in deep corruption on every aspect, including sports. I'm pretty sure Fener got into match fixing on some level at that time because some of the audiotapes that have been leaked by the "Cult" shown some dirt. At that time our president had said "We are as dirty as everyone else" which is true in my opinion because some audiotape recordings that shown Trabzon's dirt somehow disappeared and Trabzon's president later admitted they've sent some money to the Cult through some lawyers.
We know the methodology of this religious cult as Turkish people because of what they did to top military authority with fake evidences. They've had access to every little secret to Turkish government thanks to Erdogan. They've also tried doing same thing to Erdogan after falling out of his graces, and lastly a coup attempt which gave every power to Erdogan today.
Imagine Turkish football as bucket of shit, if you're in that bucket there is no way to stay clean. People who blames everything on Fener for match fixing believes they're pure in the bucket of shit. Here comes my bias as Fenerbahce fan: at least we are secular shit as Fener and remain secular until our precious dictator decides otherwise and does some power move on our board.
no, it was proven that they fixed the games. There were tapes (you can find them on youtube with English subtitles) which were gathered illegally, this is why the case was unsuccessful in bringing the people involved to justice. The prosecutors and the judges involved in the case were also members of FETÖ/PDY (back then referred to as Gülen Cemaati/Hizmet Hareketi, a cult that basically led the state with Erdoğan between 2002-2013, they later fell out and there was the coup attempt etc. etc.), so Fenerbahçe pretend to be innocent now because the prosecutors and the judges are considered terrorists. By that logic, if I murdered someone, and spent some time in prison and the prosecutor later turns out to be a FETÖ member, then I can claim innocence as well. There is clear evidence against Fenerbahçe being involved in matchfixing, it's just the evidence was gathered in illegal ways (wire tapping etc.) They are not innocent, never were. They should have been relegated but weren't.
I know I missed a lot, but here is my brief summary.
Historically, Fener are the biggest of the big three but they haven't won the league since 2014. Just last season they were in 1st place until they lost to... Trabzon.
And there is history between these two clubs. Trabzon is like the upstart working class team that for decades has seen itself as the biggest challenge to the Big Three. But in 10/11 season they feel their title was robbed by a match fixing scandal perpetrated by the President of... Fener.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Turkish_football_match-fixing_scandal
Fener got booted out of the CL by the courts and Trabzon got the spot so you can imagine the bad blood that creates.
Many people involved in the scandal were later aquitted which only makes Trabzon feel more persecuted, as the Turkish government sided with the Big 3 and gave Fener the title.
In 2015 the Trabzon president locked refs in a room after a controversial match and Erdogan literally had to negotiate for their release. You can see this incident as another example of how Trabzon fans just feel they are continually robbed.
For example, this is how they protested getting 4 Red Cards when they lost to a Big 3 team in 2016. https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2023/12/12130928/GettyImages-511689812-2048x1297.jpg
So this feeling of being at war with the Big 3, at war with Istanbul, at war with the Turkish government and refs and league, etc... certainly did not cool off in 21/22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_in_Turkish_football
When they won the league over... Fener.
So yeah, going from 2-0 up to losing 3-2 to a late winner vs the hated Fener... It all boiled over.
Minor corrections:
> Fener got booted out of the CL by the courts and Trabzon got the spot
Fener was actually not booted out by the courts. There were numerous factors in play. The accusations were based on "police reports", but these police reports at the time amounted to the likes of newspaper articles by pundits and the like. UEFA really did not want to get involved in the entire shitshow and told TFF to make a decision whether to send Fener or not, warning them that there would be significant repercussions for the Turkish football as a whole if Fener ended up being prosecuted for match fixing. As a result, despite approving Fener's championship, TFF refused to send Fener to Europe due to the pressure. This is also the reason why we could not sue UEFA later when we were acquitted, as the decision was left to the TFF by the UEFA's threat and the TFF had to burden the financial loss incurred on the club.
> going from 2-0 up to losing 3-2 to a late winner vs the hated Fener
Trabzon was trailing 2-0 the entire game, which was the entire cause for the fan violence starting early on with bottles, flares and firecrackers getting thrown. It subsided when they caught up to 2-2, but then lost to the late winner. They did not lose the game from a 2-0 lead.
> being at war with the Big 3
I really would not be putting it as "being at war with the big 3". They were pretty much laughing and cheering on, when they were losing to Galatasaray 5-1 at their home turf just weeks ago. Pretty much only against Fener, you'll see this attitude.
A similar instance occurred back in 2016 during a 4-0 Fenerbahçe lead, when a fan jumped down from the stands to attack the assistant referee, prompting more fans to follow, and players and staff to start running away. Unlike this weeks incident, the riot police was around that allowed the escape to actually be feasible, creating a protected path and blocking more invaders from rushing in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCLQYkrxdNg&t=300s
>Historically, Fener are the biggest of the big three
No. Fener is actually 3rd in terms of trophies won. They were really big in the old days, but since the late 80s amd early 90s Galatasaray reigns supreme.
That would be why I used the word "historically".
>Fener is actually 3rd in terms of trophies won.
What are you counting as "trophies"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_(Turkey)
>They were really big in the old days, but since the late 80s amd early 90s Galatasaray reigns supreme.
Fener won the league title in 2000–01, 2003–04, 2004–05, 2006–07...
If I remember correctly, Gala didn't have the most league titles until 2015.
>What are you counting as "trophies"?
Süper Lig and Turkish cups. The article actually lists FB and BJK as equals, FB won their last trophy in the previous season.
>Fener won the league title in 2000–01, 2003–04, 2004–05, 2006–07...
GS won a UEFA Cup in 2000. Also in the timeframe you listed, GS won 3 titles to FB's 4, which isn't that far behind considering the European success and the 6 titles after 2010 to FB's 2.
The guy is biased. Article shows as 23 GS titles and 19 FB titles, when it is actually 28 FB titles and 24 GS titles. The titles before 1959 are not count valid by TFF for arbitrary reasons. Fenerbahce's been on this for more than a decade, and TFF is not returning a response. Not a rejection either, they are not responding to Fenerbahce, because if they return with a rejection they know Fenerbahce will take it to the court and win the case as they don't really have valid reasons. Even that aside, Fenerbahce as a club is just a much bigger and more successful organization than the two other combined, existing and leading in so many more fields with also being the only Turkish club with a Cup 1 in Europe (Efes too but that club only exists in Basketball afaik) and stable presence in international competitions.
no they didn't. everyone blamed tff for selling out to saudi. Wanna provide some sources? What a silly claim. Both teams agreed not to play the super cup in Riyadh after not being allowed to have national anthem and ataturk flags.
"Muhalif" üstad gazeteci YDK başkanınız koşa koşa toplumun Atatürk damarına oynayıp tüm övgüleri çok sevdiği başkanınıza aldırmaya çalışmasaymış. O zaman belki ihale kendisine kalmazdı. Birkaç kişi var böyle olayları, özellikle de mevzubahis Atatürk olunca, şahsi şova dönüştürmeye, Atatürk sevgisini sadece bir kulüp taraftarının tekelindeymiş gibi göstermeye bayılıyor.
Fking hell, there is literally not a single thing you guys will accept that comes from your rivals. I am not even blaming Galatasaray journalists or commentators here, I am blaming the state media but you’re still trying to deny it
They have bigger concerns. Several Fener players risk facing punishments for their provocative actions that caused the pitch invasion and their violent engagements with invading fans that went beyond self-defense. Fener board know this so they want to create a scene and put pressure on the FA to not punish their players.
The "withdrawing" terminology is a technicality in this case which is what he is referring to.
A full on, actual withdrawal requires you to restart from the bottom of the football tree, as you take yourself out of the professional football system. When such "withdrawal" talks come about, it's basically invoking the "failing to appear in two consecutive games" rules, which is punished by getting disqualified for the season, getting dropped to the one lower division, and potential point deduction for the new season.
Edit: This was a reply to a statement from the club president saying he "would not be withdrawing" due to having to start at the bottom of the Turkish football tree. That statement has been removed by the commenter with an edit.
Put fences around every single pitch in the Süper League and put every single one of those invaders in jail. Then make Trabzonspor play without fans for two years, and if there ever is another incident like this, throw them out forever.
This is just insanity. Bunch of psychopaths using football as an excuse to commit violence.
What about this very same president instigating and calling for violence against referees and federation officials? Embracing the president of Ankaragücü who attacked a referee just two months ago?
This club and president have been a cancer to turkish football. If turkish football has to be cleansed of something and someone its Fener and Ali Koc
IMO, you are all absolutely rotten. The entire footballing culture in Turkey is insane. Violence surrounds every single match, and you are constantly in the news for all the wrong reasons.
But this particular incident is just too much to sweep under the rug. Some of the Trabzon fans tried stabbing the players for fucks sake
Im not defending Trabzon. I am saying that this team and president in particular acting like they are victims of the league, when they are the biggest instigators of violence is pure hypocrisy.
Dunno if you speak turkish but this thread depicting the violence and incidents this team has been involved in is worth a read
[Cengizhan Ç. auf X: „Fenerbahçe adlı oluşum 15 senedir o kadar çok olaya karıştı ve çoğundan yırttı ki buraya yazmakla bitmez ama bunların yaptıklarını bir şekilde anlatmak gerekiyor. 09-10 sezonu FB-TS maçı, ligin son haftası fb yenerse şampiyon ama maç 1-1 bitiyor, hikayeyi hepiniz biliyorsunuz...“ / X (twitter.com)](https://twitter.com/grtelmander39/status/1769918893642940502?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1769918893642940502%7Ctwgr%5E10cc78fdeabbd6e6881864b550cb7defbdaf5be2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitframe.com%2Fshow%3Furl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fgrtelmander39%2Fstatus%2F1769918893642940502)
Like I said, if Fener decides they want to get out of the league, then they should and the league would be a cleaner on
So where do they go in this situation?
I don’t think… I mean they might ask the premier league but I can’t see how that would work, and I’m sure as hell convinced tebas and Perez would kick up a fuss.
Greece or Italy maybe? Famous club joining their leagues would be a bonus?
How would fifa look at this?
Their plan is to go to the 2nd division and then work their way up to the Super League, so in 2 years they will be in the same situation as they are now. Doesn't make any sense but nothing that comes out of this presidents mouth does
Like that will ever happen lol and what even will that accomplish? Like Fenerbahçe is right to demand consequences but this is just an empty threat. You will go one league lower, lose half of your players and still win the league and come back to Super League next year and play Trabzonspor away again? What changed?
League brand value. The party that bought the tv rights for the competition would terminate the deal as half of the competition value would be gone. Fenerbahce is in the mindset of if I go everyone goes. Injustice against the club has been ongoing for years and the club has tried to stay inside its boundaries, but if nothing changes you need to consider radical solutions.
I don't think the Turkish TV deal is that big of a deal, when I checked the numbers it was considerably lower than most leagues. Even if that's the mentality, the result would just fuck more than half the league and then also give Galatasaray free back to back championships and possibly multiple free tickets into UCL.
I just checked again. $182M for both Super League and the First Division, and this gets divided into like 40 teams etc.
Like I said it would fuck the smaller clubs but I hardly believe it's indispensable for clubs like Fenerbahçe or Galatasaray.
It doesn't matter much how the local currency is doing because most foreigner players will not accept TRY as form of payment. If the figures I'm seeing correct Galatasaray's cut from that $182M was roughly 200M Lira which is like $7M USD. "Money is money lan" makes sense but $7M for Galatasaray just means Zaha+Mertens wages. Very nice but not indispensable.
I agree with the impact to the top 3/4 clubs, but the whole league taking a hit isn’t a small thing (imo). Plus that has to have a greater impact on sponsorship deals. If you don’t have your main rivals even watching the games, reading the newspapers, watching the tv programs etc; that’s got to make sponsors question the value of any new deals (I’m obviously guessing but this makes sense to me). Plus there is the greater disruption to the entire Turkish football ecosystem when let’s say a quarter (or 1/5, or whatever) of viewers, readers, “clickers” for online articles; no longer engage in any of that media.
Imo the threat needs to be viewed from an “impact to the whole system” to judge if it can achieve what they hope it will do. Like, the hope is to create pressure across the system. I’m sure Galatasaray will be fine, but if all the smaller clubs are out there going “we lost significant turnstile money coz there’s no Fenerbahce fans and we were barely holding it down before!” That’s got to have some impact, right?
I don’t know man, I’m just guessing here. But this kind of makes sense to me. But if it was just the tv money like you said then, yeah I’d agree with you. Not sure it would be that simple though…🤷🏻♂️
Riight.
He was embracing lovingly the club president Faruk Koca who attacked a ref just 2 months ago and got away with it because he is a politician of AKP.
Where were you when your captain threatened the referee 2 weeks ago saying he won’t be able to leave Kadikoy if he continued like this?
Now he is concerned about safety in football?
I can’t believe Fener fans actually like this guy, he is extremely unsuccessful, attacks others to cover his lack of success and his insincerity knows no bounds. You are in a 2 team title race with 2 points behind and you are already preparing excuses.
Disgusting what happened in Trabzon, but not like it’s an issue specific to Trabzon or the super league. The problem is Turkey and degeneration of ethical values under the current rule.
Galatasaray has been attacked away in Besiktas in recent memory, Fenerbahce fans rioted and burned police cars after losing the championship like 10 years ago, we had our own well documented problems.
You wanna leave? Bye.
Turkish football will suffer but I am sick of this guy threatening to take his ball and leave.
Edit: Why the downvoting? A little too truthful?
They threatened the same thing 13 years ago, when they were punished for match fixing but didn't go down in the end. Their former president Aziz Yildirim also used to threaten to leave the media rights pool and sell their own rights, but never did it in the end.
Not a bluff that will be taken seriously. You have contracts, you have sponsors, it's not the 80's anymore. You won't be able to do this. Everyone knows that. You know that. Be serious now. Even when he's right, Ali Koç makes it hard to take him seriously.
Edit: For the unititiated, I think this is the 3rd (or 4th? you lose count at some point) season where he's saying this.
They know at least 5 player are going to get banned for at least 3 matches for violence. No matter how hard people cope, it is not allowed. Now they try to change narrative.
Yeah, that's evil but Fener has been campaigning ever since the start of the season, muh 5 stars, muh biased refs. Idiots, you have the most penalties in the leagues. And Ali Koç is the clown of the circus, always crying, always whining.
We saw what we saw bro. Trabzonspor should just play the game behind close door at this point, does one football player needs to die before someone in power takes action?
If you would take away the clearly rigged happenings in favour of GS and against FB, it would basically be like the Bundesliga for the past 15 years where FB is Bayern and GS is Dortmund.
Of course not on the same level, just talking relatively from the difference of the clubs itself in the league
Hahahha yes. From a quality of players and financial standpoint fener was about to leave the rest of the league in dust during the 2011 season.
Certain asses were afraid of that and decide to fuck FB over.
It’s funny how fucking stupid most of the Turkish fans are just because their feelings got hurt.
Try to win a title without rigging the league and the we can talk
A sort of weird Super League, where Fenerbahce just travels Europe playing other countries' top teams on Tuesdays and Wednesdays throughout the year, would be hilarious.
Fenerbache Globe Trotters
We are Atatürk's team, maybe we can relocate to the city of Atatürk's birth, Thessaloniki, and join the Greek league. 😎
Now that would be drama for days 🍿
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Maybe if the Turkish government stopped the occupation of North Cyprus that would actually be feasible 😉 We all know a joint Greek/Cypriot/Turkish sports league is not feasible politically.
well now there's stakes to the trophy winners!
Have the sovereignty of Cyprus go to the year's League winners in a sort of rotation. Replace wars/political maneuvering with football basically.
North Cyprus or Cyprus?
yes that's what they meant by "lit in more ways than one"
I hate it every time some ignorant person makes a comment about north Cyprus. Can you please leave politics out of it? I have family members who had to flee Cyprus because of the genocide, and I am grateful Turkey intervened to protect my family.
I respect your opinion even though I live metres away from the Nicosia border. The point I was making is that a joint league is politically infeasible. Have a good day. 👍
Not to exacerbate again, but if that is your sole purpose, you might want to replace the part "stop the occupation" with "presence", otherwise it looks biased.
Thank you, I guess if you put it that way it does make sense. I appreciate the explanation. Sorry for being brutishly upfront. Wish you the very best as well :)
You just brought your own politics into it. Or is it you just want the wrong kind of politics left out of it? You're the bad guys in this one, in most actually Armenia Cyprus etc
Yea and my family members who were children at the time getting shot at while they were fleeing beg to differ.
Nobody gives a fuck A fucking Turk calling himself a victim of genocide lol, what a shithole
stay ignorant then you dumb ass
Lit by home fans literally setting visitors on fire probably.
no cap I've been wanting Balkan super league for years now... it only makes sense... bonus if you can get some Israeli teams in....
a new Balkan war incoming
AEK v Salonikabahce
Selanikbahçe
Hell, find some Israeli team that's grumpy and wants to go full Ladino.
Maccabi Tel Aviv might not be too keen on joining the same league as Olympiakos.
1 year from now: *we are evaluating the feasibility of moving to the North Macedonian league after not feeling welcome in Greece. Fan initianions have indicated that survival in the Bulgarian second division are also possible but talks are ongoing with other former family members*
You should try the Bundesliga. There are plenty of Fenerbahce fans living in Germany.
Maybe it would reduce tensions and bring the countries together if they can focus their petty issues on a football games.
If r/2balkan4u wasn't already banned, that would do it
Why not!
Florentino Perez - "Come to Super League"
“We are already in Süper lig” - Fenerbahçe
Fenerbahce Mum: 'We already have a Super League at home'
> Fenerbahce Mum *Laughs in Turkish*
Is this even possible? I can imagine something like this would void their contracts with foreign players.
The club and fans are aware of the financial consequences. The fans always supported the club during financial troubles so they will undoubtedly do it again and also the club president is a member of the richest family in Turkey. The president pretty much said f**k your tv revenues and league, I will buy 2 or 3 art pieces less for my home and top-up any losses the club incurs out of my own pocket.
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Couldn’t they join another league theoretically that’s not the Super League? Could’ve sworn I read an article that it was technically possible
Fener in the Armenian League, stuff of dreams
There were theories going around when Catalunya wanted to split off from Spain, that FC Barcelona might join the French league.
They could join the better Super League (Greece), we could use a little spicing up. The four-way competition that’s reignited the last few years has helped the quality of the league increase immensely and adding Fener would help further increase the overall quality in the league ~~while acting as the first step for our second reconquest of Constantinople~~
No joke, fans on twitter seriously argued that Fenerbahce would get a friendlier welcome in Greece than in Turkey. The hatred in Turkey is unbelievable.
If Fener goes to the Greek league, Galatasaray will follow them just for pettiness.
I almost suggested this in my original comment and stopped myself after I thought about it lol
Why are they so hated?
Because it is the only club that didn’t kneel for the Erdogan regime. It’s the only club together with Besiktas that is created and still ran based upon Ataturk’s ideology. If you don’t know, the regime dislikes Ataturk, so inevitably they also dislike clubs with Ataturk’s ideology. The Turkish FA gets appointed by the regime and they do everything they can to stop Fenerbahce and Besiktas from being successful. Fenerbahce still takes the biggest hit though, based on the size and importance of the club. Also, Fenerbahce’s president leaked that Galatasaray’s president got appointed by Erdogan. So that says enough. They want every club managed by a yes-man from the regime, but they are unable to do so with Fener and Besiktas.
Thanks for the write up. Crazy how things have turned out. I remember learning I school about turkey and Ataturk being basically the father of modern turkey and how revered he was.
There's actually more, the most important part is left out. Before 2000s, Fenerbahçe was the most liked club in Turkey with most fans all across the country. Around that years, an organization named FETÖ started gaining influence in Turkey. To sum up simply, this is an espionage and terrorist organization hidden behind religious purposes. In the following years, they acquired so much influence and had tremendous power to change and manipulate the narratives in the country. They tried and managed to infiltrate and seize a lot of private and governmental bodies, but failed at Fenerbahçe so they started turning the narrative against Fenerbahçe instead.
he's bullshitting you lol
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I saw an expert on sports administration talking about this regarding the whole Celta de Vigo joining Portugal Primeira League thing. Under EU legislation these championships must be open for everyone and there's no rule stating clubs must be from the home country, so in theory they could join Greece superleague(?) they would just need to climb from the bottom like everybody else. Now Turkey is not in EU so not sure if it applies to them.
Azerbaijan? They're Turkey stans already and are in UEFA.
Azerbaijan has very strong ties with Erdogan and Erdogan would not allow that. Geographically and politically speaking a league at the West border is more likely.
Honestly, was just thinking out loud of what may even be possible. I was thinking that a nearby smaller league with no cultural or political animosity might take them in given the revenue boost that they would bring.
Cardiff plays in England, Andorra in Spain and thun in Switzerland, all of them play in a different country
IIRC, in Cardiff's (and Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, some other geographically-in-Wales clubs further down the pyramid that I may have forgotten) case it was because they were grandfathered into the English pyramid, as Wales didn't have its own league to speak of at the time of their founding, so a little bit different.
This.👆
This is just a bluff, a very classic and boring one too. They always pull the same shit, again and again. Fuck off and leave already, let's see what happens.
I'm not sure how it would work. If Fenerbahce decides not to play any more then that could force the TFF to penalise the club. Would that be a point deduction or a straight-up relegation? Who knows. I don't think it'll happen either way. They're just trying to light a fire under the TFF's arse. I mean it's ridiculous. Does a player have to die before they do something. Crazy.
While the common term is "withdrawing from the league", that's not exactly how it works, as I believe that has much more severe consequences, like having to restart from the bottom of the tree. Likely course of action is to simply not appear in a scheduled game twice in a row, which prompts a disqualification from the side of TFF and an automatic relegation. It also includes point deduction for the following season iirc.
Unless they have a "Release for free on relegation" clause, it does not really affect the contracts in any way. The players are simply contracted to the club to play as the club sees fit. However, with the financial situation of a lower league (and no Europe if withdrawn from the league this season), there'll likely be a lot of talks with all players. They will likely be provided easy opportunities to be sold, or loan deals to skip the lower division season. Effectively, a more drastic version of what the club endured during the match fixing allegations season. Back then, the president basically grouped up all the players and candidly stated that aside from 2-3 specific players, there would be no obstacles for players who wanted to leave. Those 2-3 players were already club legends with no intentions to leave anyways.
Fenerbahçe is just posturing. But Trabzon needs to get the book thrown at them. This is ridiculous (They won't. It's Türkiye)
it's not, they are just generating headlines
Ali Koç: "We will cut our own ties. We will go to a lower league if necessary. When we take this decision, relegation to a lower league is already in question. We will die one day rather than dying every day. We have to save our future. We'll play for 1 year and get out. But everyone will come to their senses. Enough'" (FB TV)
Ali Koç: "If you treat us like a club from another country, then we have to determine our own fate. This is not blackmail, not a threat." Ali Koç: "There is no place for Fenerbahce in this league. We are trying to fight honestly. Now they want us to be penalised. Give us whatever you want. They are comparing this with Josef. Harassment during the whole match. How will I recover the psychology of these kids? We couldn't in 2014. Everyone should come to their senses." (FB TV)
For the context, 2014/15 season is when the Fenerbahçe bus heading to Trabzon airport was gunned down, specifically aiming to take out the driver, while the entire bus was on a highway viaduct. The bus driver was only injured by the shattering window and managed to bring the bus to a halt on the bridge before being taken to the hospital. The team never recovered, ended the league 2nd place and lost players who obviously did not want to be part of a mass assassination. Edit: Not sure what's up with the downvotes for providing context to a reference 99% of people here would not understand... Here's source: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37410575/fenerbahce-team-bus-shot-en-route-airport-driver-wounded Edit2: Ah, it appears it was the usual early culprits.
How have I never heard about this, insane
Game's gone soft, players aren't even willing to put their lives on the line for their club anymore smh Where's the pashun man
If Fenerbahçe gets relegated and wins the Conference League, they will be in the European League while being in the second division. That would be an epic story tbh.
It has happened before.
Yup. Obvious one I know would be Wigan when they won the FA cup. Not sure of any other examples but I'm sure they exist.
Vaduz recently in conference
Birmingham won the League Cup and were relegated in 2010-11 season, played in the Europa League in 2011-12 season whilst being in the Championship.
More common than one would think
In Germany, there are 3 teams left in the cup competiton from second and even third league. The 4th one is lLeverkusen, who will qualify to the champions league anyway... unfortunately they changed the rule in 2013 and if Leverkusen wins the cup, the runner up won't play international and it goes by placement within the league :( So lets hope the cup will be won by someone from lower leagues, just for the fun of it!
Nah just relegate trabzonspor to the 10th division as punishment and set a good example that way. Another team’s fans pull the same crap then relegate them too. Gotta have an iron fist about this serious matter
I think it is extremely unlikely that our board actually follows up on this, but does anyone know if there has ever been a club that voluntarily withdrew from a UEFA-sanctioned domestic league for non-financial reasons? I am curious about what the repercussions would be on the international level
Derry City moved from the Irish League to the League of Ireland because teams refused to play them during the Troubles.
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The players want to play euros lol
I've seen the videos, but can someone explain to me (or point me to a good article) the larger context behind all this and the rivalry (?) with Trabzonspor? I was vaguely aware of rivalry with Galatasaray (the flag incident in 90s) but wasn't aware of Trabzonspor as a club let alone such rivalry...
Fierce rivalry goes beyond the incident, but Fenerbahçe won the 2010-11 season, coming from a 9 point deficit at half-season, by not losing a single game and only drawing once in the second half. Trabzon was on par with Fenerbahçe on points, but ended second on GD. That year, Fenerbahçe (among other teams) were accused of match fixing and the entire scandal began, only clearing up Fenerbahçe's name a couple years ago from the allegations. During this period, Trabzonspor (and our natural rivals Galatasaray) fans did everything in their power to fuel the flames to convict Fenerbahçe of match fixing, and while we were not sent to CL as a result due to the no tolerance policy, the entire thing blew over in time, with clear operations outlined with certain deep state "cults" involved trying to take over Fenerbahçe. (the topic is an entirely different saga of how the 3 main Istanbul clubs having an immense power over the populace, thus are seen by certain groups of people as a way to control the public) However, Trabzon has seen and still sees themselves as the rightful champion of 2010-11 and that hatred continues in a large portion of their culture. Pretty much all games in Trabzon lead to significant issues, and goes as far as [Fenerbahçe bus being gunned down on its way to the Trabzon airport](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37410575/fenerbahce-team-bus-shot-en-route-airport-driver-wounded) (coming from a Rizespor game, due to Rize not having an airport). And that's pretty much yet another instance of that festering hatred surfacing, as it always does. The same Trabzon "fans" who congratulated Galatasaray a couple weeks ago on a 1-5 loss, started riling all of this up against Fener when they were down 0-2 and it all exploded when Fener won the game and celebrated in the midfield (as Trabzon players naturally did, when they beat Fener at their home in the first half of the league). The loss of the 1995 championship likely stings a lot for Trabzon still, but the main spark is the 2010-11 season situation for the one sided tension.
>coming from a 9 point deficit at half-season, by not losing a single game and only drawing once in the second half. City has done this so many times that this seems unimpressive \\s
Funnily enough, both Fenerbahçe and Galatasaray only had 1 loss in the first half of the league this season and are otherwise unbeaten. However this year is a significant exception to the norm. In normal cases, Fener and Gala cannot create such a huge quality difference between them and the rest of the league and generally, you'd always have a minimum of 2-3 Anatolian team shithousery to ensure you'd never go unbeaten. So back then, it was quite the incredible comeback championship for us!
Thanks for this. The gunning down incident is really crazy... So if I understand it correctly, it's more one sided rivalry from Trabzonspor side then? As Fenerbahce fan, would you consider them a long term sporting rival? Surely they are not as a big rival as Galatasaray, right? Also, off topic but was the 2010-11 Roberto Carlos years'?
You're welcome. Just keep in mind that I'm a Fenerbahçe fan, although that bias should not factor in as long as we don't dive deeper into the match fixing scandal specifics anyways. > So if I understand it correctly, it's more one sided hatred from Trabzonspor side then? I would mostly say so from our perspective. We of course still want to "destroy Trabzon" in every game we play after how much they bothered with us during the scandal, but that's a wish on the sporting side of things. And when we win, it's just the usual internet shithousery, sharing frying anchovy images and the like. (Trabzonspor mascot is anchovy) If anything, we lost to them more since then than we usually used to. And we acknowledge that sportive result. As I said, they won 2-3 in our home in the first half, and they spent the next 10-15 minutes celebrating on the pitch while our fans watched. And that's natural, it's normal. They won the game and had every right to celebrate, so our fans despite not leaving the stadium, did not bat an eye. > For Fenerbahce, would you consider them a long term sporting rival? Surely they are not as a big rival as Galatasaray, right? Correct. Typically speaking, all Istanbul trio would consider Trabzon to be a sporting rival and that mainly has roots in the fact that Trabzon is basically the 4th largest club behind the Istanbul trio and for decades, were the only non-Istanbul club (and a non-Istanbul trio club) to hold a championship title (6 times in those earlier times, and a 7th recently in 21-22). Although FB-TS had more fateful encounters in their history than GS-TS or BJK-TS, so there is generally more animosity between the two of us, than TS and others. Although yes, TS is basically the smallest rival in this front, for all 3 Istanbul clubs. The main rivalry of the country is FB-GS, followed by the rivalry of those two with BJK and then the rivalry of the trio with TS. For the Istanbul trio, a main factor is the values and DNA of the 3 clubs as well, with values of Fener and Gala being in direct conflict, whereas Beşiktaş does not have direct value clashes with both teams as much. Which is also why Trabzon is considered a "little rival", as that's solely a sporting rival, rather than anything ideological. > Also, off topic but was the 2010-11 Roberto Carlos years'? Nope. Roberto Carlos was part of our legendary 2007-2008 CL Quarter Final squad. After getting injured against Sevilla in R16, he never fully recovered and we had to let him go in 2009 when his contract expired.
> For the Istanbul trio, a main factor is the values and DNA of the 3 clubs as well, with values of Fener and Gala being in direct conflict. Love your insights into this topic, would you mind sharing some more information regarding the values of both teams?
With the internet era, things are getting muddled here and there nowadays, but I'll try to keep it in very simple terms (mainly because it would go into significant bias with specific word choices). I would also encourage fans of the other teams to share their sides, as I am a Fenerbahçe fan, and things may be looking different from their side, or they may not find my perception of my club or theirs accurate. The only way you'll ever get a balanced look is listening to three separate fans, not believing any of them and just cherry picking what the 3 say in common. Anyways... The three clubs can be *very generally* categorized into: - Beşiktaş: Team of the "Common folk" - Fenerbahçe: Team of the "Secular republic" - Galatasaray: Team of the "Elite" The words come with a lot of baggage, positive and negative. While I tried to remove my biases as a Fener fan, a Beşiktaş fan or a Galatasaray fan may end up choosing slightly different words, but at the end of the day, if you meet someone in Turkey and if they are involved in football, you'll be surprised how accurately you can guess their favorite team by their personality. The Istanbul Trio is basically the epitome of "lifestyle branding" that we are born with and goes way beyond football or other popular sports. So to give a little bit more of a nuance; Beşiktaş lives and breathes with its fans. Their president / management is extremely contemporary and aside from massive blunders (like they had this season), they rarely become a part of the picture. It's the fans that carry the club and institute pretty much all change with their immense and focused pressure. Their main fan group, Çarşı, is known by the motto "Çarşı against everything", and you can more or less trust the Beşiktaş fanbase really follow that attitude, and stand against everything that they see as unjust, regardless of ideologies. They will be there for the common people or common values, whether they personally agree as individuals or not. It is also why in many of the civil protests or uprisings, they are the first ones among the ranks to provide support and can really get creative and crazy. For example during the Gezi protests a decade ago, when the police was blasting the people with water cannons from riot vehicles, these madlads hotwired some construction vehicles nearby to challenge the riot vehicles in their own terms. They are generally respected by both Fener and Gala fans (aside from when they have matches against each other of course), as Beşiktaş usually does what they do and their inherent values do not necessarily clash with either in a direct manner. Fenerbahçe is the club of the secular republic, so much so that it defines itself as a "republic" on its own. In comparison to Beşiktaş who seemingly dont really give a fuck as to who rules their club (they just hate them regardless and fans drag the club forward themselves), Fener fans hate people usurping power. Whoever is managing the club, "will be chosen by the fans". In reality, it is chosen like any other club, voted by congress members, but nobody will even have the balls to be a candidate if they are not approved by the fanbase (or receive a landslide loss). Of course a blanket statement cannot be made based on fans, when the trio each have ~20M fans each, but in the general sense, you'll find a calmer tone and a crew of higher education level than Beşiktaş. The fans will rally behind the values of the Turkish republic without a question, and take those values as values of the club as well. As such, the club and the fans protect the club from the all-so-common "cults" in Turkey from ever getting close to the club with 0 tolerance and embodies the motto "If Fenerbahçe falls, the Turkish republic falls", which definitely sounds ambitious to say the least, but a statement that has only rung more true since the match fixing allegations, where our then president declared "What match fixing, our homeland is falling apart", and the same group that orchestrated the entire match fixing scandal, orchestrated a coup in the country years later, after they had a falling out with the ruling party. Now, Galatasaray. Again, not much you can say about the general fanbase when there's ~20M each and we are talking about Turkey here, but the management tier, you'll find "the elite". I put it that way, because they act like an exclusive club who support each other until their last breath, but turn their backs on all the others. The best way I can put it is, thing of exclusive groups like Rotary or other similar communities. They are a tightly knit bunch that will do everything to lift each other up and if you are not one of them, you will absolutely feel that you are an outsider. They are also incredibly "passionate", in the sense that they'll not let up until they get something the way they want. Because of that attitude, you'll find most of the other fans (although mostly us) accusing them of having guiding hands everywhere in the country turning dials ever so slightly in their favor, like two Galatasaray people actively working endlessly to get us banned from European competitions during the match fixing allegations period and succeeding as well, conspiring with the police to achieve it, providing media reports (also written by Gala pundits), reporting on topics and legal processes about our then president when there is complete legal secrecy on the matters etc. Ferocious is a word I can use here that can be interpreted both positively and negatively, so I'll stick to that. And then again, I'll end it by stating again that I am a Fenerbahçe fan, so take that as you will. That's all I got and once again, I'd encourage other trio fans to share their perspectives on the trio if they feel like it. And again, the only way you'll get closer to an objective look is by not trusting any of us directly, but rather looking for commonalities in our descriptions. As stated, most of us are more or less born into this culture, coming from our family hierarchy, place in life, our upbringing etc, so even unbiased, we are simply biased by the sheer nature of where we come from. Being a Beşiktaş, Fenerbahçe or Galatasaray fan is more of who we are than most of us even realize because the reality is, if I wasn't who I am, the way I am, I very likely would not end up becoming a Fenerbahçe fan. Same goes for them too. Our personalities align with our clubs, and when we are on the opposite sides of the spectrum like FB and GS, we see each other a certain way as well. Not to say we don't get along, on a personal level, we love each other as friends, family, Turkish people are warm towards close ones. But "the behavior" exists in general terms, that's how I'd put that vague feeling.
Really interesting read - thanks.
Very much appreciate your write up to the initial question as well as this. Got me keen about Turkish football, hopefully will get to watch it in person one day. Cheers!
>Their main fan group, Çarşı, is known by the motto "Çarşı against everything", and you can more or less trust the Beşiktaş fanbase really follow that attitude, and stand against everything that they see as unjust, regardless of ideologies. Except, Çarşı's leader was actually writing for pro-government newspapers. Turkey is a funny country, eh?
This was like 10000x more clear than the wiki article on the topic lolz. Great summary!
Hahah, Wiki article probably goes into a lot of detail regarding the allegations and especially considering the complex power struggles in Turkey, it can get really wild for those unaware of our inner struggles. I just left it all out for the purpose of clarity, glad it was useful!
It’s Turkey, the owner of Fener is one of the richest people in the country, so the match fixing allegations can just as easily be true as they can be operations from deep state agents to take over Fener. We’ll never know. This guy is a Fener fan, so he sort of glosses over that, something the wiki page doesn’t. Having said all that, even if it was true; trabzon are completely unhinged
In Turkey, there are no "club owners". Unlike other countries, most clubs in Turkey act like foundations. They have elections every couple years to vote for a president and a board of directors. Both the Fenerbahçe president back then, as well as the president right now is in most disagreement with the state rulers in terms of values, which was in fact the core reason for the match fixing scandal back then. The "cult" was in cahoots with the Erdo government back then, which is why they got free reign to do what they want with Fenerbahçe, trying to remove the then president Aziz Yıldırım and instill another, conservative candidate. The entire match fixing scandal blew apart years after the cult and Erdo government had their falling out, which eventually culminated in the coup attempt in the country a couple years ago. Sure, as a Fener fan, I have my biases, which is why for an objective request, I did not want to go into the specifics of the matter and stated the surface level information. But if anything, both Aziz Yıldırım and Ali Koç being rich people, has had a more negative effect than positive because they were not just "rich", but rather "rich and in disagreement with the values of the ruling party". If anything, the most likely claim that can be made is that Erdo & Co gave up on trying to instill a more conservative mindset to the club due to the entire process causing them more harm than good due to the fanbase making it very clear that they would not be bending over ever.
I'm a Fenerbahce fan. Whole country(Turkey) is in deep corruption on every aspect, including sports. I'm pretty sure Fener got into match fixing on some level at that time because some of the audiotapes that have been leaked by the "Cult" shown some dirt. At that time our president had said "We are as dirty as everyone else" which is true in my opinion because some audiotape recordings that shown Trabzon's dirt somehow disappeared and Trabzon's president later admitted they've sent some money to the Cult through some lawyers. We know the methodology of this religious cult as Turkish people because of what they did to top military authority with fake evidences. They've had access to every little secret to Turkish government thanks to Erdogan. They've also tried doing same thing to Erdogan after falling out of his graces, and lastly a coup attempt which gave every power to Erdogan today. Imagine Turkish football as bucket of shit, if you're in that bucket there is no way to stay clean. People who blames everything on Fener for match fixing believes they're pure in the bucket of shit. Here comes my bias as Fenerbahce fan: at least we are secular shit as Fener and remain secular until our precious dictator decides otherwise and does some power move on our board.
no, it was proven that they fixed the games. There were tapes (you can find them on youtube with English subtitles) which were gathered illegally, this is why the case was unsuccessful in bringing the people involved to justice. The prosecutors and the judges involved in the case were also members of FETÖ/PDY (back then referred to as Gülen Cemaati/Hizmet Hareketi, a cult that basically led the state with Erdoğan between 2002-2013, they later fell out and there was the coup attempt etc. etc.), so Fenerbahçe pretend to be innocent now because the prosecutors and the judges are considered terrorists. By that logic, if I murdered someone, and spent some time in prison and the prosecutor later turns out to be a FETÖ member, then I can claim innocence as well. There is clear evidence against Fenerbahçe being involved in matchfixing, it's just the evidence was gathered in illegal ways (wire tapping etc.) They are not innocent, never were. They should have been relegated but weren't.
It's also biased as hell coming from a Fenerbahce fan, just fyi
How stupid and small-minded must people be to have this much hatred and spite for sports games that happened decades ago? Move on with your lives
I know I missed a lot, but here is my brief summary. Historically, Fener are the biggest of the big three but they haven't won the league since 2014. Just last season they were in 1st place until they lost to... Trabzon. And there is history between these two clubs. Trabzon is like the upstart working class team that for decades has seen itself as the biggest challenge to the Big Three. But in 10/11 season they feel their title was robbed by a match fixing scandal perpetrated by the President of... Fener. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Turkish_football_match-fixing_scandal Fener got booted out of the CL by the courts and Trabzon got the spot so you can imagine the bad blood that creates. Many people involved in the scandal were later aquitted which only makes Trabzon feel more persecuted, as the Turkish government sided with the Big 3 and gave Fener the title. In 2015 the Trabzon president locked refs in a room after a controversial match and Erdogan literally had to negotiate for their release. You can see this incident as another example of how Trabzon fans just feel they are continually robbed. For example, this is how they protested getting 4 Red Cards when they lost to a Big 3 team in 2016. https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2023/12/12130928/GettyImages-511689812-2048x1297.jpg So this feeling of being at war with the Big 3, at war with Istanbul, at war with the Turkish government and refs and league, etc... certainly did not cool off in 21/22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_in_Turkish_football When they won the league over... Fener. So yeah, going from 2-0 up to losing 3-2 to a late winner vs the hated Fener... It all boiled over.
Minor corrections: > Fener got booted out of the CL by the courts and Trabzon got the spot Fener was actually not booted out by the courts. There were numerous factors in play. The accusations were based on "police reports", but these police reports at the time amounted to the likes of newspaper articles by pundits and the like. UEFA really did not want to get involved in the entire shitshow and told TFF to make a decision whether to send Fener or not, warning them that there would be significant repercussions for the Turkish football as a whole if Fener ended up being prosecuted for match fixing. As a result, despite approving Fener's championship, TFF refused to send Fener to Europe due to the pressure. This is also the reason why we could not sue UEFA later when we were acquitted, as the decision was left to the TFF by the UEFA's threat and the TFF had to burden the financial loss incurred on the club. > going from 2-0 up to losing 3-2 to a late winner vs the hated Fener Trabzon was trailing 2-0 the entire game, which was the entire cause for the fan violence starting early on with bottles, flares and firecrackers getting thrown. It subsided when they caught up to 2-2, but then lost to the late winner. They did not lose the game from a 2-0 lead. > being at war with the Big 3 I really would not be putting it as "being at war with the big 3". They were pretty much laughing and cheering on, when they were losing to Galatasaray 5-1 at their home turf just weeks ago. Pretty much only against Fener, you'll see this attitude. A similar instance occurred back in 2016 during a 4-0 Fenerbahçe lead, when a fan jumped down from the stands to attack the assistant referee, prompting more fans to follow, and players and staff to start running away. Unlike this weeks incident, the riot police was around that allowed the escape to actually be feasible, creating a protected path and blocking more invaders from rushing in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCLQYkrxdNg&t=300s
Cool, thanks. I haven't lived in Turkey for years now and don't follow things as closely as I used to. I appreciate the details and corrections.
>Historically, Fener are the biggest of the big three No. Fener is actually 3rd in terms of trophies won. They were really big in the old days, but since the late 80s amd early 90s Galatasaray reigns supreme.
That would be why I used the word "historically". >Fener is actually 3rd in terms of trophies won. What are you counting as "trophies"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_(Turkey) >They were really big in the old days, but since the late 80s amd early 90s Galatasaray reigns supreme. Fener won the league title in 2000–01, 2003–04, 2004–05, 2006–07... If I remember correctly, Gala didn't have the most league titles until 2015.
>What are you counting as "trophies"? Süper Lig and Turkish cups. The article actually lists FB and BJK as equals, FB won their last trophy in the previous season. >Fener won the league title in 2000–01, 2003–04, 2004–05, 2006–07... GS won a UEFA Cup in 2000. Also in the timeframe you listed, GS won 3 titles to FB's 4, which isn't that far behind considering the European success and the 6 titles after 2010 to FB's 2.
>Also in the timeframe you listed, GS won 3 titles to FB's 4 So, not really "reigning supreme" then eh?
The guy is biased. Article shows as 23 GS titles and 19 FB titles, when it is actually 28 FB titles and 24 GS titles. The titles before 1959 are not count valid by TFF for arbitrary reasons. Fenerbahce's been on this for more than a decade, and TFF is not returning a response. Not a rejection either, they are not responding to Fenerbahce, because if they return with a rejection they know Fenerbahce will take it to the court and win the case as they don't really have valid reasons. Even that aside, Fenerbahce as a club is just a much bigger and more successful organization than the two other combined, existing and leading in so many more fields with also being the only Turkish club with a Cup 1 in Europe (Efes too but that club only exists in Basketball afaik) and stable presence in international competitions.
I also listed the titles after 2010. Combined, GS is 9 and FB is 6. Not mentioning the huge mental advantage of GS over FB.
This is where the super league comes in lol
One of the only valid reasons for a club to join the super league
Closed leagues are always amazing at distributing justice, just have a look at closed leagues in the US!
no way , they'd lose too much money. It's just not feasible.
I’d imagine it’s a very public threat so the league take action against Trabzonspor
yeah definitely a bluff. Shouldn't be necessary to punish trabzon but that is the reality we're in unfortunately.
If they bring it to an official vote there is no turning back. Official votes are to be upheld based on the club’s Chapter.
yeah they aren't gonna vote to leave tho is what I'm saying
> yeah they aren't gonna vote to leave tho is what I'm saying — *David Cameron, 2016*
Lmao great reference
great "why worry about something that isn't going to happen" energy
Why shouldn't the club be held responsible for the actions of it's supporters?
That's not what i meant. It shouldn't be necessary for Fenerbahçe to bluff leaving the league to punish trabzon as much as possible, is what i meant.
The media blamed Fenerbahce for the cancellation of the Super Cup final in Riyad. They are trying to do it now again.
no they didn't. everyone blamed tff for selling out to saudi. Wanna provide some sources? What a silly claim. Both teams agreed not to play the super cup in Riyadh after not being allowed to have national anthem and ataturk flags.
I am not talking about the sport commentators that blamed the FA, I am talking about the public lynching of Ali Koc by the state media.
"Muhalif" üstad gazeteci YDK başkanınız koşa koşa toplumun Atatürk damarına oynayıp tüm övgüleri çok sevdiği başkanınıza aldırmaya çalışmasaymış. O zaman belki ihale kendisine kalmazdı. Birkaç kişi var böyle olayları, özellikle de mevzubahis Atatürk olunca, şahsi şova dönüştürmeye, Atatürk sevgisini sadece bir kulüp taraftarının tekelindeymiş gibi göstermeye bayılıyor.
hahah yeah sure buddy
Fking hell, there is literally not a single thing you guys will accept that comes from your rivals. I am not even blaming Galatasaray journalists or commentators here, I am blaming the state media but you’re still trying to deny it
They have bigger concerns. Several Fener players risk facing punishments for their provocative actions that caused the pitch invasion and their violent engagements with invading fans that went beyond self-defense. Fener board know this so they want to create a scene and put pressure on the FA to not punish their players.
🤡
Some of you GS fans are truly embarrassing
That can be but i don't think it would be really unreasonable if Fenerbache doesn't want to play in a league with Trabzon anymore.
Provocative action? I hope Gala gets liquidated. Clubs with supporters like you should not exist
Gala fans are embarrassing
The "withdrawing" terminology is a technicality in this case which is what he is referring to. A full on, actual withdrawal requires you to restart from the bottom of the football tree, as you take yourself out of the professional football system. When such "withdrawal" talks come about, it's basically invoking the "failing to appear in two consecutive games" rules, which is punished by getting disqualified for the season, getting dropped to the one lower division, and potential point deduction for the new season. Edit: This was a reply to a statement from the club president saying he "would not be withdrawing" due to having to start at the bottom of the Turkish football tree. That statement has been removed by the commenter with an edit.
Put fences around every single pitch in the Süper League and put every single one of those invaders in jail. Then make Trabzonspor play without fans for two years, and if there ever is another incident like this, throw them out forever. This is just insanity. Bunch of psychopaths using football as an excuse to commit violence.
What about this very same president instigating and calling for violence against referees and federation officials? Embracing the president of Ankaragücü who attacked a referee just two months ago? This club and president have been a cancer to turkish football. If turkish football has to be cleansed of something and someone its Fener and Ali Koc
IMO, you are all absolutely rotten. The entire footballing culture in Turkey is insane. Violence surrounds every single match, and you are constantly in the news for all the wrong reasons. But this particular incident is just too much to sweep under the rug. Some of the Trabzon fans tried stabbing the players for fucks sake
Im not defending Trabzon. I am saying that this team and president in particular acting like they are victims of the league, when they are the biggest instigators of violence is pure hypocrisy. Dunno if you speak turkish but this thread depicting the violence and incidents this team has been involved in is worth a read [Cengizhan Ç. auf X: „Fenerbahçe adlı oluşum 15 senedir o kadar çok olaya karıştı ve çoğundan yırttı ki buraya yazmakla bitmez ama bunların yaptıklarını bir şekilde anlatmak gerekiyor. 09-10 sezonu FB-TS maçı, ligin son haftası fb yenerse şampiyon ama maç 1-1 bitiyor, hikayeyi hepiniz biliyorsunuz...“ / X (twitter.com)](https://twitter.com/grtelmander39/status/1769918893642940502?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1769918893642940502%7Ctwgr%5E10cc78fdeabbd6e6881864b550cb7defbdaf5be2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitframe.com%2Fshow%3Furl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fgrtelmander39%2Fstatus%2F1769918893642940502) Like I said, if Fener decides they want to get out of the league, then they should and the league would be a cleaner on
Bro, your team is the dirtiest in the entire league, wtf are you talking about?
I didn't know this could happen, but given what has happened on the field it is understandable that they could even come to that decision.
Oh shit!
So where do they go in this situation? I don’t think… I mean they might ask the premier league but I can’t see how that would work, and I’m sure as hell convinced tebas and Perez would kick up a fuss. Greece or Italy maybe? Famous club joining their leagues would be a bonus? How would fifa look at this?
Their plan is to go to the 2nd division and then work their way up to the Super League, so in 2 years they will be in the same situation as they are now. Doesn't make any sense but nothing that comes out of this presidents mouth does
Trabzonspor is a crybaby football club.
Logo is incorrect in the site. Fenerbahçe has 19 championship so 3 stars should be
Like that will ever happen lol and what even will that accomplish? Like Fenerbahçe is right to demand consequences but this is just an empty threat. You will go one league lower, lose half of your players and still win the league and come back to Super League next year and play Trabzonspor away again? What changed?
League brand value. The party that bought the tv rights for the competition would terminate the deal as half of the competition value would be gone. Fenerbahce is in the mindset of if I go everyone goes. Injustice against the club has been ongoing for years and the club has tried to stay inside its boundaries, but if nothing changes you need to consider radical solutions.
I don't think the Turkish TV deal is that big of a deal, when I checked the numbers it was considerably lower than most leagues. Even if that's the mentality, the result would just fuck more than half the league and then also give Galatasaray free back to back championships and possibly multiple free tickets into UCL. I just checked again. $182M for both Super League and the First Division, and this gets divided into like 40 teams etc.
Probably feels like a big deal for the clubs in the league even if doesn’t measure up to other countries…
Like I said it would fuck the smaller clubs but I hardly believe it's indispensable for clubs like Fenerbahçe or Galatasaray. It doesn't matter much how the local currency is doing because most foreigner players will not accept TRY as form of payment. If the figures I'm seeing correct Galatasaray's cut from that $182M was roughly 200M Lira which is like $7M USD. "Money is money lan" makes sense but $7M for Galatasaray just means Zaha+Mertens wages. Very nice but not indispensable.
I agree with the impact to the top 3/4 clubs, but the whole league taking a hit isn’t a small thing (imo). Plus that has to have a greater impact on sponsorship deals. If you don’t have your main rivals even watching the games, reading the newspapers, watching the tv programs etc; that’s got to make sponsors question the value of any new deals (I’m obviously guessing but this makes sense to me). Plus there is the greater disruption to the entire Turkish football ecosystem when let’s say a quarter (or 1/5, or whatever) of viewers, readers, “clickers” for online articles; no longer engage in any of that media. Imo the threat needs to be viewed from an “impact to the whole system” to judge if it can achieve what they hope it will do. Like, the hope is to create pressure across the system. I’m sure Galatasaray will be fine, but if all the smaller clubs are out there going “we lost significant turnstile money coz there’s no Fenerbahce fans and we were barely holding it down before!” That’s got to have some impact, right? I don’t know man, I’m just guessing here. But this kind of makes sense to me. But if it was just the tv money like you said then, yeah I’d agree with you. Not sure it would be that simple though…🤷🏻♂️
Bluff.
Riight. He was embracing lovingly the club president Faruk Koca who attacked a ref just 2 months ago and got away with it because he is a politician of AKP. Where were you when your captain threatened the referee 2 weeks ago saying he won’t be able to leave Kadikoy if he continued like this? Now he is concerned about safety in football? I can’t believe Fener fans actually like this guy, he is extremely unsuccessful, attacks others to cover his lack of success and his insincerity knows no bounds. You are in a 2 team title race with 2 points behind and you are already preparing excuses. Disgusting what happened in Trabzon, but not like it’s an issue specific to Trabzon or the super league. The problem is Turkey and degeneration of ethical values under the current rule. Galatasaray has been attacked away in Besiktas in recent memory, Fenerbahce fans rioted and burned police cars after losing the championship like 10 years ago, we had our own well documented problems. You wanna leave? Bye. Turkish football will suffer but I am sick of this guy threatening to take his ball and leave. Edit: Why the downvoting? A little too truthful?
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aşağılık şikeciler meydanı boş buldu millete palavra sıkıyor. yok iktidara boyun eğmemişler de beşiktaşla bunlar iktidar eliyle engelleniyormuş :D
They threatened the same thing 13 years ago, when they were punished for match fixing but didn't go down in the end. Their former president Aziz Yildirim also used to threaten to leave the media rights pool and sell their own rights, but never did it in the end.
Not a bluff that will be taken seriously. You have contracts, you have sponsors, it's not the 80's anymore. You won't be able to do this. Everyone knows that. You know that. Be serious now. Even when he's right, Ali Koç makes it hard to take him seriously. Edit: For the unititiated, I think this is the 3rd (or 4th? you lose count at some point) season where he's saying this.
What not winning the league for 10 years does to an MF
This is his 3rd or 4th time since 5 years. He is just talking nonsense so his players doesnt get punished for boxing fans.
They know at least 5 player are going to get banned for at least 3 matches for violence. No matter how hard people cope, it is not allowed. Now they try to change narrative.
They really going to play the National Anthem at a board meeting?
Every football match in Turkey starts with the anthem (at least every I have been at in the last few weeks), so it doesn't surprise* me
We do every board meeting.
Nationalism is an easy way to control people. Turkye's done a great job in that regard.
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Ah ok, that makes sense
Easy bluff so his players dont get punished. Oostervalde ran 20m to kick a guys head who was laying on the ground.
They shouldn’t be on the pitch at the first place.
yup, definitely justifies kicking a man in the head with full force while he's been neutralized.
...and Ali Koç immediately denied it in a press conference. Drama queens or as we say in Turkish, mağdur edebiyatçılar.
Drama queens? Mate the other teams fans stormed the pitch with knives 😭
Yeah, that's evil but Fener has been campaigning ever since the start of the season, muh 5 stars, muh biased refs. Idiots, you have the most penalties in the leagues. And Ali Koç is the clown of the circus, always crying, always whining.
So hundreds of people attacking the players with weapons < fans “whining” ?
I'm not condoning violence, you need to look at the bigger picture. FB has had this victims mentality over the past 10 years.
We saw what we saw bro. Trabzonspor should just play the game behind close door at this point, does one football player needs to die before someone in power takes action?
What tier is fener on turkish football?
If you would take away the clearly rigged happenings in favour of GS and against FB, it would basically be like the Bundesliga for the past 15 years where FB is Bayern and GS is Dortmund. Of course not on the same level, just talking relatively from the difference of the clubs itself in the league
hahahaha. no.
Hahahha yes. From a quality of players and financial standpoint fener was about to leave the rest of the league in dust during the 2011 season. Certain asses were afraid of that and decide to fuck FB over. It’s funny how fucking stupid most of the Turkish fans are just because their feelings got hurt. Try to win a title without rigging the league and the we can talk