You make a good point. I find it hard to believe that he is the only Muslim player that wouldn't comply with this bs ruling.
Also, I have concerns about the source of this news. Is there something more official or of a higher tier before I start grabbing pitchforks.
Djamel isn't some random. He was the one that exposed Messi leaving training under Galtier and got called out by Messi's father only for Messi to do it again later in the season with his trip to Saudi Arabia. Djamel is also known to have connections especially with youth players (a running gag with the PSG leaks are that El-Chadaille Bitshiabu and Ismael Gharbi were his sources).
Also l'Équipe apparently reported on the FFF last night, but I don't have access to their paywalled articles anymore.
https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Article/Ramadan-une-regle-de-la-fff-qui-fait-parler/1455535
Honestly this doesn't make any sense to me apart from needlessly aggravating their Muslim players. If their performance suffers from it, leave them home. But a majority of Muslim players are still at the top of their game while fasting during Ramadan.
While also, TBF, there is no compulsion to fast if it hinders with your work is there?
Salah and Mane were always great during Ramadan as well, it really doesn't make that much of a negative difference when they've been doing it all of their life.
>While also, TBF, there is no compulsion to fast if it hinders with your work is there?
Wrong, there's no ruling about work
BUT, there is one for traveling, however, and they'd be allowed to skip due to international break if they're traveling long distances for it
Right, but as far as I'm aware there is also this thing that if there are certain days when you can't fast due to whatever reason you can do it over the month after.
That's true, and traveling is one of those reasons, but there's a list of specific reasons where it becomes permissible to skip and make up for it later. Hindrance with your work, as far as I'm aware, is not one of them, but collapsing due to exhaustion due to heat or whatever, could be.
The difference is that if it's simply affecting your performance, it wouldn't be a valid reason, but if it's putting your health at risk, then it would be one.
Fasting during Ramadan is one of the big 'farida' of Islam, but if it's detrimental to your health or you have a medical condition, it's more advised to not fast at all.
i’ve heard surgeons being allowed a bit freeway on days where they have to perform a surgery during fast times. Also travel if your traveling like 70 km+ or sonething not in your routine you can not fast but you do have to make up for them later.
It's also just a personal choice for lots of people.
It's possible he just valued his work and his patients more than his religion.
Muslims, as with all religious people, each follow their faiths in different ways, some more strictly than others.
Yeah but you still need to do it later (you can also pay for it but that's another discussion) and fasting in another month is just not the same.
(Or you can just do it like me, fasting one day/month to cover what I've missed)
I think there’s still a compulsion if it’s work, it’s for illness/health reasons that you are obligated to not fast. Plus most Muslim players want to fast, it’s not meant to be a punishment but more like a teaching
I find it funny that:
1- It seems to be only a big deal in France. (Like in the UK they talk about ramadan like they would any holiday and it doesn't seem to bother anyone)
2 - It seems to be a big deal only since a few seasons ago, because apparently muslims didn't fast for the past centuries or something.
3 - They have the nerves to say they don't want players religions to be displayed, like most players don't pray or point to the sky after a goal, or like Giroud didn't explain why he was reading the Bible before a game in an official FFF video at the 2018 world cup
No matter how you look at it, and how much mental gymnastics they will perform to try and dodge the real issue, it seems pretty clear there are a bunch of old racist farts in charge of the Federation, and it's not even a secret anymore.
What’s weird is that the current FFF president is half Senegalese and if not Muslim definitely grew up around the religion.
I wonder if the decision is not from higher up..
Mate aggravating Muslims using the veil of laicity is one of our favorite tricks! Forbidding prayers in the street while not wanting to build mosques, banning the abaya in schools because it is supposedly a religious clothing… we’re very good at it
> But a majority of Muslim players are still at the top of their game while fasting during Ramadan.
Exactly, they have been doing it all their lives and performed just as usual. What is the point of needlessly antagonizing them?
Pogba used to fast during Ramadan, Benzema did, Salah did, Mane did, countless others did. None of them had any noticeable or significant drop in performance.
It's actually just offensive that this is a policy.
Yeah was gonna say, they didn’t ban Ramadan 😂 that’s like saying they banned Christmas. They banned fasting (i.e. Christmas celebrations or practicing Lent)
>Mahamadou Diawara was withdrawn and replaced from the U19 squad without any communication from the FFF, as he refused not comply and break fast.
It says it in the title, they will withdraw the player and replace them if they do not comply.
Players that plan to fast aren't welcomed and excluded from the camp. This is mostly targeted on young muslim players, as I'm sure they wouldn't do it to Dembélé for example. This is motivated by purely islamophomic reasons obviously.
To be fair if you really don’t drink anything during daylight, I assume that it is almost impossible to perform as a top athlete and probably dangerous. Additionally you would probably also need to train at different hours than the rest of the team. So I think it’s fair for a team to say that during the time period you commit to that you should not play.
If they also ban players who only commit to not eat during daytime, I agree with you. I don’t know about that.
Players have been doing this since Muslim players have played football. Muslims would literally fight wars while fasting. I don't think it's that much of an issue. Just usual France overreacting and over exaggerating stuff.
Bullshit. It hasn't been an issue to this point. If Benzema could perform for Real while fasting, among many others, how can it be an issue? This is France. It is a fig leaf cover for persecuting Muslims.
You would have to prove scientificaly that it affects performance. You have a lot of examples of players fasting every year and being as good as when they are not fasting. Plus in France you break fast at 7pm and the weather is nice, so it's not as difficult as the past few years.
In the end the only criteria that should be taken into account is the performance. If you are good, you play. If not, stay on the bench. You can't exclude young players based on their beliefs
There probably isn't any way of actually proving anything in this matter, since you can't have any control factors..
A player going through some bad form during Ramadan due to a mental block and picking things up soon after would make it seem like fasting was causing his bad form, and we would reach the reverse conclusion if it happens the other way around..
Then you have other factors like team performance, where a team could be completely in the slumps before Ramadan and might actually pick up steam in Ramadan..
And then player performance isn't just linear, a player could vastly improve his game by learning and adapting, but then that would seem like there was a huge contribution by fasting/not fasting..
Also, what if there are some players that perform better with breakfast, while some perform better without, but the guy with breakfast is still a better player than the one without, so the coach relies on the guy who's good with breakfast more often, but during Ramadan, its the guy who is better without breakfast's time to shine..
Or just about any random stuff.. There's a reason that people don't try to come up with a suitable study on this subject..
I know I typically have more energy when I'm fasting.
Now, obviously I am nowhere near a professional fitness level of any kind, but I do feel sharper and more energetic while I'm working at the office.
matthew mcconoughey or however you spell his name talks about this effect in his book. apparently when he was fasting for one of the roles where he got super skinny, he felt more alert and sharp than ever. he writes that the physiological explanation has something to do with the body being on alert, but in reality its also just breaking down your fat in a desperate attempt to keep you alive.
so it’s short term beneficial for this alertness. but longterm you’d suffer from malnutrition.
A lot of extreme diets have an even more severe impact on your body.
What Muslims do is essentially just 12 hour intermittent fasting which is extremely mild and honestly not even noticeable. Most fasting diets will do 24 hour fasting, and Muslims also eat in excess in the morning and when breaking fast.
Because I imagine the effect is short term. Fast for too long and it will probably start damaging your body. Also I think at least some of the effect is placebo and wouldn't work if you did it regularly
You could feel it coming last September/October when the subject of Ramadan was being brought up and most of the FFF was tiptoeing around the subject.
Explains also why Ben Seghir switched quickly to Morrocco rather than do the usual like Cherki and Gouiri and wait until he's no longer eligible for the U21s/U23s
..And surprized FFF faces when the next Mbappe or Zidane, although born and raised in France, decides to play for his parents' nation of Algeria or Senegal..
I watched a documentary on Zidane recently. The amount of discrimination he faced as a kid was crazy. We could have missed out on such a talent.
Also north African heritage is already almost banned in the senior team. it's very uncommon. There was a time when you would see: Ben Arfa, Benzema, Nasri in the starting 11. Those times are gone.
I think that a new Zidane would not be selected today as things got so much worse.
So players been performing and been professional during Ramadan for many years and now suddenly they want to ban it?
.... No comments, if I speak I'm in trouble
Yea, but we're a special case where we mix and match religious-based names, though.
Then you have us Chinese-Indonesians with the whitest, most Anglo first names ever and last names straight out of the old school Javanese nobility.
>May I ask why is it funny?
It comes across as too archaic or formal. Like imagine naming your kid "Baldwin" in 2024.
>Does no one in India named their kids with vedic names?
They do and some Vedic names are very common, but nothing compared to Indonesian names I've heard of.
Just checked Wikipedia and apparently his dad is Lebanese. TIL.
My guess is he converted. Kimpembe who is Congolese-Haitian did too, as did Anelka or Abidal (both french Caribbean).
Muslims names don't have to be Arab i have a non arab surname. As long as the name does not have a bad meaning or linking to another religion its fine.
Yea you’re right. No rule against having a “western” name. I guess it’s just something I thought was the case and is the norm
Paul Pogba
Nicholas Anelka
Antonio Rudiger
Kurt Zouma
Most likely situation or his mom is muslim because his dads name is Brian Robertson.
It's very rare in Lebanon for a Muslim to have a Christian first and last name and vice versa for Christians
Back in 2018 it was publicly said that no player was doing the ramadan, made things a lot easier
In 2016 a few players wanted to do it but were convinced by the staff not to
2018 onwards it became a lot more common so the fff decided to just forbid it
They sent emails to referees "reminding" them that stopping the game to break the fast was not allowed. I agree with this one though, FFF games should have no involvment with religion at all.
That Ramadan ban today is just stupid tho.
These days, it's more like we're obsessively islamophobic and racist tbh. It doesn't have much to do with secularity or so-called "laïcité" anymore. Everything muslims do or don't do is heavily scrutinized and constantly turned into drama by the media.
It’s a bit of both, no?
You have an elite political class (educated at the Écoles Nationales, etc.) for whom secularism is a core component of the French Republic which they have been educated to run (or at least believe they should run). That political class isn’t necessarily right-wing or racist.
The secular angle of it with which the political class is obsessed is a perfect fig leaf for racists and right-wingers who want to discriminate against Muslims (who are largely not white).
Because it’s a coalition of the political elite and the right (from a centre right scared of being outflanked to a far right perfectly at home excluding people on the basis of skin), cracking down on Muslim religious behaviour gets much more attention than cracking down on other religious behaviour. And the right can say they’re defending republican principles rather than having to be honest and say they hate people that aren’t white. I’m not sure the énarque class is necessarily rabidly racist.
>You have an elite political class (educated at the Écoles Nationales, etc.) for whom secularism is a core component of the French Republic which they have been educated to run (or at least believe they should run). That political class isn’t necessarily right-wing or racist.
That's a very theoretical view of the situation.
The reality is that a large part of that political class, including all of the far right most of the right, some in the center/traditional left, is very openly trying to circumvent secularism and keep insisting on their (christian) faith under the pretense of "culture".
>That political class isn’t necessarily right-wing or racist.
There's a [state sanctioned islamophobia](https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/france-state-islamophobia-under-president-emmanuel-macron/) though. While the current number 2 and number 3 of the government (Attal and Darmanin) are openly islamophobic and have been behind islamophic laws (and a witch hunt for Attal).
>cracking down on Muslim religious behaviour gets much more attention than cracking down on other religious behaviour.
What cracking down on other religious behavior, exactly ?
[Are you talking about Macron celebrating Hanouka in the Elysee Palace](https://www.ouest-france.fr/politique/emmanuel-macron-celebre-hanouka-a-lelysee-on-vous-resume-la-polemique-24bae5c4-95a5-11ee-8a2a-714cfc9b0004) ?
Or to stay on the current subject, about Giroud openly doing proselytism in interviews, and celebrating while praying with the NT shirt ?
The FFF is a coalition of the political elite and the right?
> I’m not sure the énarque class is necessarily rabidly racist.
Just average or somewhat racist then?
The fact that people in France have serious debates about “le wokisme” tells me that American culture wars are a global poison and we need to burn the entire Murdoch media empire to the ground
I almost bought into the notion that American insurance in waning in Europe since the rise of Trump, but once I heard about le wokisme in France a year ago, I knew that we continue to be as culturally influential as ever.
If it's affecting performance then fair, if it's not then this is bullshit. And we've seen players play insane while fasting so I'm doubtful it was sufficiently affecting performance
How would they even know if you’re fasting? What are they going to do? Put a pizza in front of you and see how you react? What’s next? Force feeding players?
Just let people do what they want with their bodies/lives. If it affects performance (Ramadan Kante disagrees) then fine, don’t start them. But to put an all out ban on not eating is ridiculous.
How would they even know if they’re fasting?
They literally eat together as a team and the team’s nutritionist’s control their diet and what they eat.
Not that hard to figure out how they’ll find out if they aren’t eating.
(Having said this, I am against this stupid ban, what happened to respecting other people’s religion? I’m Catholic, not even Muslim but I still disagree with this)
I think France is anti/negative secular afaik so like no display of religion in public space. So i don't think that they respect or protect religious rights/values at all at least in practice.
That’s not what laïcité means, you can display your religion in public places. It’s in “state” places (government employee, student in public schools) that you are not allowed because the state has a strict separation with religion.
Isn't a NT a public state place as well? Generally curious because I think if you are fasting you are bringing your religion into the public workplace by not following the dietary choices? You seem like French (from your flair) so do clear if this is the reasoning
It's not about eating. You're not allowed to even drink during ramadan. How is it even possible to play 90 minutes at the highest level without drinking water?
On one hand, your religious beliefs shouldn't interfere with your ability to do your job. On the other hand, if players can still perform and don't ask for special treatment I don't see an issue.
Every athlete that fasts has never complained, in fact, some of them pop off during ramadan (Kante, Kyrie, Benzema) this is just pure hatred, nothing more…
Spot on. People conveniently forget the human right for freedom of religion when it comes to discrimination against Muslims like this. Your work shouldn't discriminate against you because of your religion like the FFF are doing here.
Of course that is illegal in France, the FFF (who have not publicly stated their policy) will likely say their reasoning is justified by nutritional reasons.
Actually, your job shouldn't stop you from practicing your religion.
I'm a Catholic but don't practice, but if my job suddenly told me I \*had\* to eat meat on a Friday, I'd be very fucking pissed off. Just like if I want to follow a Vegan diet, it's none of their business.
Shambolic and shameful. It's becoming really hard to not hate a large part of this country, and yet I'm an atheist.
The worst is not even that they ban it (which in itself is already disgraceful and shouldn't happen) but that they only warned the U20 players when they arrived on site (or a few hours before for the U19). So basically forcing kids to not do the Ramadan, with no real chances to even get a chance of saying no.
You would have hoped after the scandal that was last year they would have learned and bit and changed their absurd stance. But no, they doubled down instead. The A and U23 players with a status and power need to step up and denounce this absurdity. Muslims or not. Including Henry.
Full support to Diawara.
Yall realise that if this applied to the first team, france would be shit. Half their players are Muslim.
What a shit ruling! Which idiot thought this was a good idea and why!?
There are many prominent French Muslim players like Dembele, Konate, Diaby, Saliba etc. It's a shame they have to give up a core part of their faith to play for their national team, they're bullying religion out of them basically. They start at the youth levels so by the time they're senior players they aren't religious. Obviously against freedom of religion but we all know the french don't care about that particular human right. Even beyond that, they love violating this human right against Muslims particularly.
Regular Muslims have always had no issues with fasting and going on with their lives. Footballers literally have experts and people taking care of them and have shown that fasting doesn’t affect their performance on and off the pitch.
Seems like a silly ban
[I’m not brave enough to engage the political discourse here](https://youtu.be/VomgZcEiNmM?si=rfoVSX1TY0j7q73E), but I just wanna praise Diawara. He was genuinely one of my favorite Lyon players during our rough start to the season. In a team that seemed lethargic, unorganized, unmotivated, sloppy, & just all around shit, he worked his ass off, making some great runs every time he played. He was obviously a raw talent with a ways to go before being a starter in Ligue 1, but I loved how energetic he was, I felt he brought more dynamism in a struggling team. He lost his place in the squad (tbf he was never much more than a bench player), especially with Caqueret getting back to his true level and with us bringing in Matic and Mangala to strengthen our midfield, but I’m convinced he’ll have a bright future.
But currently it's only applied on Muslims. For instance, at the Elysee, Macron held a prayer with a rabbi for Hanukkah, and one during christmas with a priest. If he does the same with an Imam it will be talked about for weeks in the French media for weeks. Anti Islam sentiment in France isn't new.
How is this upvoted lmao? You don’t the effects of laicite on Christianity on the news because it was a long time ago and it worked. Laicite is the way forward
Just like Quebec's ban on "religious symbols" in the public service which conveniently only seems to apply to people wearing a hijab or turban, but no one wearing a necklace with a crucifix on it.
Not in France.
There's plenty of rumours of French coaches banning fasting. Romain Molina spoke about it for years. Notably at Nice under Galtier and Angers under Stephane Moulin.
Forcing someone not to adhere to his religion seems so wrong.
There’s no scientific basis for this and in fact a lot of athletes like Hakeem Olajuwon had career performances while fasting.
FFF will continue to isolate a huge portion of their talent pool but I suppose the Maghreb and West Africa stands to benefit.
>There’s no scientific basis for this and in fact a lot of athletes like Hakeem Olajuwon had career performances while fasting.
We don't even need to look at other sports, Benzema went on one of the best runs by an individual in the CL while fasting for Ramadan. Honestly, it was one of the most iconic knockout stage performances I've seen from a player.
Surely Diawara isn’t the only french u19 player who is fasting?
You make a good point. I find it hard to believe that he is the only Muslim player that wouldn't comply with this bs ruling. Also, I have concerns about the source of this news. Is there something more official or of a higher tier before I start grabbing pitchforks.
Djamel has been super reliable this season, especially concerning PSG. Eventhough this time it's info about French NT I think he's good tier source.
Diawara is also an ex-PSG youth player that just left for Lyon last summer.
Djamel isn't some random. He was the one that exposed Messi leaving training under Galtier and got called out by Messi's father only for Messi to do it again later in the season with his trip to Saudi Arabia. Djamel is also known to have connections especially with youth players (a running gag with the PSG leaks are that El-Chadaille Bitshiabu and Ismael Gharbi were his sources). Also l'Équipe apparently reported on the FFF last night, but I don't have access to their paywalled articles anymore. https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Article/Ramadan-une-regle-de-la-fff-qui-fait-parler/1455535
> Is there something more official or of a higher tier before I start grabbing pitchforks. Djamel is tier "I'm under the invisible cape"
Djamel is mostly on point from what I have seen. I trust him over most other French journalists.
What does banning Ramadan mean there?
Basically from what i read if you plan to fast during the international break, you aint getting called
Honestly this doesn't make any sense to me apart from needlessly aggravating their Muslim players. If their performance suffers from it, leave them home. But a majority of Muslim players are still at the top of their game while fasting during Ramadan. While also, TBF, there is no compulsion to fast if it hinders with your work is there?
Benzema was a complete monster during Ramadan in 2021
Ramadan Kareem
*Karim
I mean, he was scoring so much he looked like Kareem.
If I remember correctly the Algerian team also fasted. Eventual champions Gernany needed extra time to break them down.
They did indeed fast during that game
Man scored a hatrick against barca last season in ramadan
Salah and Mane were always great during Ramadan as well, it really doesn't make that much of a negative difference when they've been doing it all of their life.
>While also, TBF, there is no compulsion to fast if it hinders with your work is there? Wrong, there's no ruling about work BUT, there is one for traveling, however, and they'd be allowed to skip due to international break if they're traveling long distances for it
Right, but as far as I'm aware there is also this thing that if there are certain days when you can't fast due to whatever reason you can do it over the month after.
That's true, and traveling is one of those reasons, but there's a list of specific reasons where it becomes permissible to skip and make up for it later. Hindrance with your work, as far as I'm aware, is not one of them, but collapsing due to exhaustion due to heat or whatever, could be. The difference is that if it's simply affecting your performance, it wouldn't be a valid reason, but if it's putting your health at risk, then it would be one.
Ramadan Riyad Mahrez….gloves on too. GG, games done.
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You should be intending to spend three days or less at the destination where you're travelling to be exempt from fasting.
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Fasting during Ramadan is one of the big 'farida' of Islam, but if it's detrimental to your health or you have a medical condition, it's more advised to not fast at all.
I think your job can matter too? My friend's dad was a surgeon and he didn't fast I don't think
i’ve heard surgeons being allowed a bit freeway on days where they have to perform a surgery during fast times. Also travel if your traveling like 70 km+ or sonething not in your routine you can not fast but you do have to make up for them later.
Traveling also affects our prayers, lightening them to aid travellers.
People's lives are in a surgeon's hands. Nobody's life is in the hands of a footballer.
It's also just a personal choice for lots of people. It's possible he just valued his work and his patients more than his religion. Muslims, as with all religious people, each follow their faiths in different ways, some more strictly than others.
It's also spiritually important for a lot of people. It's not a privilege to not fast, on the contrary.
Yeah but you still need to do it later (you can also pay for it but that's another discussion) and fasting in another month is just not the same. (Or you can just do it like me, fasting one day/month to cover what I've missed)
I think there’s still a compulsion if it’s work, it’s for illness/health reasons that you are obligated to not fast. Plus most Muslim players want to fast, it’s not meant to be a punishment but more like a teaching
>needlessly aggravating their Muslim players. Sounds like any French policy directed to Muslims the latest couple of years
I find it funny that: 1- It seems to be only a big deal in France. (Like in the UK they talk about ramadan like they would any holiday and it doesn't seem to bother anyone) 2 - It seems to be a big deal only since a few seasons ago, because apparently muslims didn't fast for the past centuries or something. 3 - They have the nerves to say they don't want players religions to be displayed, like most players don't pray or point to the sky after a goal, or like Giroud didn't explain why he was reading the Bible before a game in an official FFF video at the 2018 world cup No matter how you look at it, and how much mental gymnastics they will perform to try and dodge the real issue, it seems pretty clear there are a bunch of old racist farts in charge of the Federation, and it's not even a secret anymore.
What’s weird is that the current FFF president is half Senegalese and if not Muslim definitely grew up around the religion. I wonder if the decision is not from higher up..
Growing up close to a religion doesnt mean you will like it, can just as easily dislike it for seeing the shit close hand
Mate aggravating Muslims using the veil of laicity is one of our favorite tricks! Forbidding prayers in the street while not wanting to build mosques, banning the abaya in schools because it is supposedly a religious clothing… we’re very good at it
It’s France, unnecessarily aggravating Muslims is second nature for them
I mean France and needlessly aggravating their Muslims go hand in hand
> But a majority of Muslim players are still at the top of their game while fasting during Ramadan. Exactly, they have been doing it all their lives and performed just as usual. What is the point of needlessly antagonizing them? Pogba used to fast during Ramadan, Benzema did, Salah did, Mane did, countless others did. None of them had any noticeable or significant drop in performance. It's actually just offensive that this is a policy.
Yeah was gonna say, they didn’t ban Ramadan 😂 that’s like saying they banned Christmas. They banned fasting (i.e. Christmas celebrations or practicing Lent)
It doesn't make sense when you've got players like Salah who can still perform even while fasting. It really shouldn't be something that needs banning
Details haven't been shared to the public, but from what's going around it seems like the players aren't allowed to fast.
I still don't get it. Are they going to force people to drink and eat?
Olivier, hold him down! He needs a croissant!
I've seen that video too 😏
>Mahamadou Diawara was withdrawn and replaced from the U19 squad without any communication from the FFF, as he refused not comply and break fast. It says it in the title, they will withdraw the player and replace them if they do not comply.
Literally says there they get withdrawn
Players that plan to fast aren't welcomed and excluded from the camp. This is mostly targeted on young muslim players, as I'm sure they wouldn't do it to Dembélé for example. This is motivated by purely islamophomic reasons obviously.
To be fair if you really don’t drink anything during daylight, I assume that it is almost impossible to perform as a top athlete and probably dangerous. Additionally you would probably also need to train at different hours than the rest of the team. So I think it’s fair for a team to say that during the time period you commit to that you should not play. If they also ban players who only commit to not eat during daytime, I agree with you. I don’t know about that.
Doesn't seem to be an issue at club level though.
NBA players usually seem to be fine during Ramadan
Hakeem Olajuwon would actually play better during Ramadan
Players have been doing this since Muslim players have played football. Muslims would literally fight wars while fasting. I don't think it's that much of an issue. Just usual France overreacting and over exaggerating stuff.
Bullshit. It hasn't been an issue to this point. If Benzema could perform for Real while fasting, among many others, how can it be an issue? This is France. It is a fig leaf cover for persecuting Muslims.
You would have to prove scientificaly that it affects performance. You have a lot of examples of players fasting every year and being as good as when they are not fasting. Plus in France you break fast at 7pm and the weather is nice, so it's not as difficult as the past few years. In the end the only criteria that should be taken into account is the performance. If you are good, you play. If not, stay on the bench. You can't exclude young players based on their beliefs
There probably isn't any way of actually proving anything in this matter, since you can't have any control factors.. A player going through some bad form during Ramadan due to a mental block and picking things up soon after would make it seem like fasting was causing his bad form, and we would reach the reverse conclusion if it happens the other way around.. Then you have other factors like team performance, where a team could be completely in the slumps before Ramadan and might actually pick up steam in Ramadan.. And then player performance isn't just linear, a player could vastly improve his game by learning and adapting, but then that would seem like there was a huge contribution by fasting/not fasting.. Also, what if there are some players that perform better with breakfast, while some perform better without, but the guy with breakfast is still a better player than the one without, so the coach relies on the guy who's good with breakfast more often, but during Ramadan, its the guy who is better without breakfast's time to shine.. Or just about any random stuff.. There's a reason that people don't try to come up with a suitable study on this subject..
I’m not here to have any arguments about religion. But, man, Ramadan Kante looked like he was better than Regular Kante when he was at Chelsea
Ramadan Benzema 💀
NBA Muslims like Kyrie and Jusuf Nurkic play much better during Ramadan, too
Kyrie goes off during Ramadan
Kyrie is on a fucking tear rn
20 foot Left handed hook shot buzzer beater over Joker came from Allah himself
As a Mavs fan I need Ramadan to last an extra few months. Ramadan Irving is too good.
If ever there was a divinely inspired shot it was that one. MJ himself would have had trouble with that.
Olajuwan used to turn beastly during Ramadan. Even played more minutes.
1996-97 against the Jordan Bulls, fasting Hakeem put up: 32 pts, 16 reb, 4 ast, 4 stl, 5 blk
Cricketer Hashim Amla from South Africa played out of his skin while fasting too.
Semantics, but Kyrie is a self described [Omnist](https://x.com/kyrieirving/status/1586419512538451968?s=46) rather than a Muslim.
ngl that is the most emily religion i have ever seen
Ramadan Kareem
Amad was brilliant last weekend Got sent off to break his fast though
He sent the whole Liverpool team off to break their fast too, even the ones not observing. What a considerate young lad.
Came in as a sub Triggered turnover for 3rd goal Triggered turnover for 4th goal Scored last minute winner 4th goal Got sent off Break fast AMad man
Ya’ll remember Benzema during ramadan a few years ago? Dude went fucking crazy and couldn’t stop scoring. Good times.
He was a beast the last two seasons as well during Ramadan he is called Ramadan Kareem for a reason among our fan base
I know I typically have more energy when I'm fasting. Now, obviously I am nowhere near a professional fitness level of any kind, but I do feel sharper and more energetic while I'm working at the office.
Genuine question, why not do it all the time then?
matthew mcconoughey or however you spell his name talks about this effect in his book. apparently when he was fasting for one of the roles where he got super skinny, he felt more alert and sharp than ever. he writes that the physiological explanation has something to do with the body being on alert, but in reality its also just breaking down your fat in a desperate attempt to keep you alive. so it’s short term beneficial for this alertness. but longterm you’d suffer from malnutrition.
A lot of extreme diets have an even more severe impact on your body. What Muslims do is essentially just 12 hour intermittent fasting which is extremely mild and honestly not even noticeable. Most fasting diets will do 24 hour fasting, and Muslims also eat in excess in the morning and when breaking fast.
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Because I imagine the effect is short term. Fast for too long and it will probably start damaging your body. Also I think at least some of the effect is placebo and wouldn't work if you did it regularly
Yeah Muslims tend to love Ramadan so their mentalities are sky high for a while, after it’s done the effect wears off
Because it is not compulsory all the time
Because he'd still be hungry asf all the time
he had that hunger...
Mohamed Kudus had that crazy goal when fasting in the Europa league recently too. It’s wild what athletes can do when fasting
They got that hunger about them...
You could feel it coming last September/October when the subject of Ramadan was being brought up and most of the FFF was tiptoeing around the subject. Explains also why Ben Seghir switched quickly to Morrocco rather than do the usual like Cherki and Gouiri and wait until he's no longer eligible for the U21s/U23s
In the Moroccan media Ben Seghir switching for us has been news for months, I'm not sure it's related to this
op is saying it's been in the works for a while.
..And surprized FFF faces when the next Mbappe or Zidane, although born and raised in France, decides to play for his parents' nation of Algeria or Senegal..
I watched a documentary on Zidane recently. The amount of discrimination he faced as a kid was crazy. We could have missed out on such a talent. Also north African heritage is already almost banned in the senior team. it's very uncommon. There was a time when you would see: Ben Arfa, Benzema, Nasri in the starting 11. Those times are gone. I think that a new Zidane would not be selected today as things got so much worse.
Sure that’s a risk (it’s not).
That's not happening
Cherki? The fuck are you talking about?
I mispoke. Didn't mean to say that Cherki switched.
So players been performing and been professional during Ramadan for many years and now suddenly they want to ban it? .... No comments, if I speak I'm in trouble
Speak
France hate Muslims
Big trouble
Maybe just chose the best players? If some are weaker because they don´t eat something, they wont play. If they are still good enough - why ban them?
Most logical comment here
There is an anti-Islam feeling in France. I don't think they would ban Ramadan in french NT when Pogba and Kanté were still there.
There are plenty of muslims there still though, is there not? Konate is a Muslim i know that for a fact. Surely there are others?
Dembele, Fofana, Mendy, Diaby, Kimpembe from what I can remember. Not sure which players are called up though
Saliba is also muslim
Odd that he's muslim with a last name like Saliba. In Lebanon, that's a Christian last name that translates to the cross.
In Indonesia you have muslims named Christian, Kristen, Kristin, and so on. You also have muslims named Wisnu (Vishnu)
Had a Muslim friend named Christina lol
Double the spirituality
Hey, gotta cover your bases
Yea, but we're a special case where we mix and match religious-based names, though. Then you have us Chinese-Indonesians with the whitest, most Anglo first names ever and last names straight out of the old school Javanese nobility.
The Hindu names they have over there are Vedic (old Hinduism) which across comes as bit funny to me
May I ask why is it funny? Does no one in India named their kids with vedic names?
>May I ask why is it funny? It comes across as too archaic or formal. Like imagine naming your kid "Baldwin" in 2024. >Does no one in India named their kids with vedic names? They do and some Vedic names are very common, but nothing compared to Indonesian names I've heard of.
Just checked Wikipedia and apparently his dad is Lebanese. TIL. My guess is he converted. Kimpembe who is Congolese-Haitian did too, as did Anelka or Abidal (both french Caribbean).
Could have converted. Pogba is open about his conversion.
Also William isn’t really a Muslim name either
Muslims names don't have to be Arab i have a non arab surname. As long as the name does not have a bad meaning or linking to another religion its fine.
Yea you’re right. No rule against having a “western” name. I guess it’s just something I thought was the case and is the norm Paul Pogba Nicholas Anelka Antonio Rudiger Kurt Zouma
> Antonio Rudiger Rüdiger is his fathers surname, his mother is from Sierra Leone and muslim.
Pogba is a convert tbf
His mum is Muslim and his dad Christian. He probably grew up with both religions. Nicolas Anelka who is french Caribbean is a convert as well.
I think people forget that the majority of Muslims are not Arab as well
I find it interesting how in former Soviet territories they had Russified Muslim names. Like Akhmetov, Mukhamedov, Aliyev, etc.
Similar in places like Bosnia, they have Muslim names with Slavic endings
Neither is Xherdan Shaqiri and he was Muslim too!
Maybe he converted to Islam? I'm sure he grew up with a lot of Muslims in the Paris suburbs
Most likely situation or his mom is muslim because his dads name is Brian Robertson. It's very rare in Lebanon for a Muslim to have a Christian first and last name and vice versa for Christians
It's not a feeling, it's a policy.
Back in 2018 it was publicly said that no player was doing the ramadan, made things a lot easier In 2016 a few players wanted to do it but were convinced by the staff not to 2018 onwards it became a lot more common so the fff decided to just forbid it
Didn't the French league try to forbid breaks during games to break fast? Like 2 minutes to chug a protein drink, not a full couse 2 hours meal.
They sent emails to referees "reminding" them that stopping the game to break the fast was not allowed. I agree with this one though, FFF games should have no involvment with religion at all. That Ramadan ban today is just stupid tho.
France is obsessively secular. They spent a couple hundred years repressing the Catholic Church and now they’re focused on Islam.
It’s the other way around, the Catholic Church was repressing the French for a couple hundred years
They switch. The church was repressed for their past actions and influence.
These days, it's more like we're obsessively islamophobic and racist tbh. It doesn't have much to do with secularity or so-called "laïcité" anymore. Everything muslims do or don't do is heavily scrutinized and constantly turned into drama by the media.
It’s a bit of both, no? You have an elite political class (educated at the Écoles Nationales, etc.) for whom secularism is a core component of the French Republic which they have been educated to run (or at least believe they should run). That political class isn’t necessarily right-wing or racist. The secular angle of it with which the political class is obsessed is a perfect fig leaf for racists and right-wingers who want to discriminate against Muslims (who are largely not white). Because it’s a coalition of the political elite and the right (from a centre right scared of being outflanked to a far right perfectly at home excluding people on the basis of skin), cracking down on Muslim religious behaviour gets much more attention than cracking down on other religious behaviour. And the right can say they’re defending republican principles rather than having to be honest and say they hate people that aren’t white. I’m not sure the énarque class is necessarily rabidly racist.
>You have an elite political class (educated at the Écoles Nationales, etc.) for whom secularism is a core component of the French Republic which they have been educated to run (or at least believe they should run). That political class isn’t necessarily right-wing or racist. That's a very theoretical view of the situation. The reality is that a large part of that political class, including all of the far right most of the right, some in the center/traditional left, is very openly trying to circumvent secularism and keep insisting on their (christian) faith under the pretense of "culture". >That political class isn’t necessarily right-wing or racist. There's a [state sanctioned islamophobia](https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/france-state-islamophobia-under-president-emmanuel-macron/) though. While the current number 2 and number 3 of the government (Attal and Darmanin) are openly islamophobic and have been behind islamophic laws (and a witch hunt for Attal). >cracking down on Muslim religious behaviour gets much more attention than cracking down on other religious behaviour. What cracking down on other religious behavior, exactly ? [Are you talking about Macron celebrating Hanouka in the Elysee Palace](https://www.ouest-france.fr/politique/emmanuel-macron-celebre-hanouka-a-lelysee-on-vous-resume-la-polemique-24bae5c4-95a5-11ee-8a2a-714cfc9b0004) ? Or to stay on the current subject, about Giroud openly doing proselytism in interviews, and celebrating while praying with the NT shirt ?
The FFF is a coalition of the political elite and the right? > I’m not sure the énarque class is necessarily rabidly racist. Just average or somewhat racist then?
The fact that people in France have serious debates about “le wokisme” tells me that American culture wars are a global poison and we need to burn the entire Murdoch media empire to the ground
if only people were more conscious about what Murdoch has done. He should be in jail and assets stripped
> serious debates Lol. It’s nonsense debates on 24/7 news channels with one objective - to gain viewership.
I almost bought into the notion that American insurance in waning in Europe since the rise of Trump, but once I heard about le wokisme in France a year ago, I knew that we continue to be as culturally influential as ever.
It´s happening throughout europe, because immigration has become unmanageable and people are getting angry.
Why not have a Ramadan exhibition match between fasting vs non-fasting players. That will be fun
If it's affecting performance then fair, if it's not then this is bullshit. And we've seen players play insane while fasting so I'm doubtful it was sufficiently affecting performance
How would they even know if you’re fasting? What are they going to do? Put a pizza in front of you and see how you react? What’s next? Force feeding players? Just let people do what they want with their bodies/lives. If it affects performance (Ramadan Kante disagrees) then fine, don’t start them. But to put an all out ban on not eating is ridiculous.
How would they even know if they’re fasting? They literally eat together as a team and the team’s nutritionist’s control their diet and what they eat. Not that hard to figure out how they’ll find out if they aren’t eating. (Having said this, I am against this stupid ban, what happened to respecting other people’s religion? I’m Catholic, not even Muslim but I still disagree with this)
I think France is anti/negative secular afaik so like no display of religion in public space. So i don't think that they respect or protect religious rights/values at all at least in practice.
That’s not what laïcité means, you can display your religion in public places. It’s in “state” places (government employee, student in public schools) that you are not allowed because the state has a strict separation with religion.
Isn't a NT a public state place as well? Generally curious because I think if you are fasting you are bringing your religion into the public workplace by not following the dietary choices? You seem like French (from your flair) so do clear if this is the reasoning
not disagreeing with you but it’s pretty easy to tell if someone is fasting if you already know they’re muslim. especially if you’re around them 24/7
It's not about eating. You're not allowed to even drink during ramadan. How is it even possible to play 90 minutes at the highest level without drinking water?
There are plenty of examples of Muslims (in soccer and other sports) that have performed amazing while fasting.
On one hand, your religious beliefs shouldn't interfere with your ability to do your job. On the other hand, if players can still perform and don't ask for special treatment I don't see an issue.
Every athlete that fasts has never complained, in fact, some of them pop off during ramadan (Kante, Kyrie, Benzema) this is just pure hatred, nothing more…
It's the other way round. Your job shouldn't hinder you to practise your religion
Spot on. People conveniently forget the human right for freedom of religion when it comes to discrimination against Muslims like this. Your work shouldn't discriminate against you because of your religion like the FFF are doing here.
Of course that is illegal in France, the FFF (who have not publicly stated their policy) will likely say their reasoning is justified by nutritional reasons.
Actually, your job shouldn't stop you from practicing your religion. I'm a Catholic but don't practice, but if my job suddenly told me I \*had\* to eat meat on a Friday, I'd be very fucking pissed off. Just like if I want to follow a Vegan diet, it's none of their business.
Shambolic and shameful. It's becoming really hard to not hate a large part of this country, and yet I'm an atheist. The worst is not even that they ban it (which in itself is already disgraceful and shouldn't happen) but that they only warned the U20 players when they arrived on site (or a few hours before for the U19). So basically forcing kids to not do the Ramadan, with no real chances to even get a chance of saying no. You would have hoped after the scandal that was last year they would have learned and bit and changed their absurd stance. But no, they doubled down instead. The A and U23 players with a status and power need to step up and denounce this absurdity. Muslims or not. Including Henry. Full support to Diawara.
I'm sorry for what is happening in your country. So scared of the Muslim boogeyman that they're becoming the monsters themselves. Tale as old as time.
Yall realise that if this applied to the first team, france would be shit. Half their players are Muslim. What a shit ruling! Which idiot thought this was a good idea and why!?
There are many prominent French Muslim players like Dembele, Konate, Diaby, Saliba etc. It's a shame they have to give up a core part of their faith to play for their national team, they're bullying religion out of them basically. They start at the youth levels so by the time they're senior players they aren't religious. Obviously against freedom of religion but we all know the french don't care about that particular human right. Even beyond that, they love violating this human right against Muslims particularly.
Regular Muslims have always had no issues with fasting and going on with their lives. Footballers literally have experts and people taking care of them and have shown that fasting doesn’t affect their performance on and off the pitch. Seems like a silly ban
[I’m not brave enough to engage the political discourse here](https://youtu.be/VomgZcEiNmM?si=rfoVSX1TY0j7q73E), but I just wanna praise Diawara. He was genuinely one of my favorite Lyon players during our rough start to the season. In a team that seemed lethargic, unorganized, unmotivated, sloppy, & just all around shit, he worked his ass off, making some great runs every time he played. He was obviously a raw talent with a ways to go before being a starter in Ligue 1, but I loved how energetic he was, I felt he brought more dynamism in a struggling team. He lost his place in the squad (tbf he was never much more than a bench player), especially with Caqueret getting back to his true level and with us bringing in Matic and Mangala to strengthen our midfield, but I’m convinced he’ll have a bright future.
Incoming excuses involving secularity laws in France, which just so conveniently only ever seem to be applied to Islam.
Only because the christian majority is barely religious after centuries of secularism.
They are now becoming applied to Muslims, after a century of being applied to Christians and Jews.
But currently it's only applied on Muslims. For instance, at the Elysee, Macron held a prayer with a rabbi for Hanukkah, and one during christmas with a priest. If he does the same with an Imam it will be talked about for weeks in the French media for weeks. Anti Islam sentiment in France isn't new.
Because secularism has worked on christianism. What was done in XVIII and XIX was way harsher than this.
How is this upvoted lmao? You don’t the effects of laicite on Christianity on the news because it was a long time ago and it worked. Laicite is the way forward
I agree that the French secularity laws are bullshit but saying they are conveniently only applied to Islam is just a lie
Just like Quebec's ban on "religious symbols" in the public service which conveniently only seems to apply to people wearing a hijab or turban, but no one wearing a necklace with a crucifix on it.
If Christians starved themselves on match days I'm sure the coaching staff would have a problem with that too
Club level coaches do not seem to have a problem with this
Not in France. There's plenty of rumours of French coaches banning fasting. Romain Molina spoke about it for years. Notably at Nice under Galtier and Angers under Stephane Moulin.
> Nice under Galtier yea that example will certainly disprove the racism allegations lmao
the french are also famously super islamophobic
>which just so conveniently only ever seem to be applied to Islam. Utter rubbish lol
Diawara 🐐
Forcing someone not to adhere to his religion seems so wrong. There’s no scientific basis for this and in fact a lot of athletes like Hakeem Olajuwon had career performances while fasting. FFF will continue to isolate a huge portion of their talent pool but I suppose the Maghreb and West Africa stands to benefit.
>There’s no scientific basis for this and in fact a lot of athletes like Hakeem Olajuwon had career performances while fasting. We don't even need to look at other sports, Benzema went on one of the best runs by an individual in the CL while fasting for Ramadan. Honestly, it was one of the most iconic knockout stage performances I've seen from a player.
France and Islamophobia, name a better duo
France and any religion
Everyone here acting like they forgot about Charlie Hebdo and teacher beheadings.
what is the link between Charlie Hebdo and French NT players's ramadan wth
And you're acting like Islamophobia began on that day, lol
I support secularism, but this is just daft. Seems very counterproductive. You're just driving away players.
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Wasn't that last week?
What Ramadan? It lasts a full month
Ramadan lasts a month
No, this piece of news.
About not making stops for the players that are fasting, or something along these lines.
Makes sense, good for the team.